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The Genius Guide to Horrifically Overpowered Feats (PFRPG) PDF

***** (based on 4 ratings)

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This product is a bad idea. It contains a wide array of feats that are, as the title suggests, horrifically overpowered. The only way these feats can be considered “balanced” is that they can make any character horrifically overpowered, so allowing them all into a campaign gives all the players (and monsters, and NPCs, and even minions) a chance to be ridiculously super-powered. And as long as everyone is super, it’s all balanced out, right?

No, we know. Just... run with it a second, okay?

We’re not suggesting any GM should allow these feats into a campaign. In fact, we advise against it. Seriously, the whole product is called “Horrifically Overpowered Feats,” which seemed like a dead giveaway that we’re not encouraging anyone to use these rules. The product is even being released on April 1st, 2012. April 1st. Get it?

Of course a GM can add these to a campaign. It’s a bad idea, but the feats are all mechanically sound (in that they follow the normal format of feats and work with the normal rules of the game), and their effect on a character’s abilities is clearly spelled out. It’s just that these feats have a significantly greater impact on a character’s overall effectiveness than any feat in the game’s official rules. Heck, they have a significantly greater impact than any feat Super Genius Games has ever published. They do much more than a feat is supposed to do. They do so much, in fact, that there’s no way to grant the benefits these feats represent without making whatever character receives them much, much more powerful than characters are supposed to be.

In many ways, these feats are classic bad examples, doing exactly the sorts of things feats shouldn’t. If you ever design a feat you expect to work in a normal campaign and it looks a lot like one of these feats, that’s a clear sign you’ve done something wrong.

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Product Discussion (95)
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Looks interesting.

Paizo Employee Modules Overlord

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Since I've been asked this question a lot:

YES, this is a real product.
YES, the title is accurate.
NO, these feats aren't appropriate for every campaign, and I'd never pressure anyone into using them. But we DO talk about why and how you might want to (even if the tone of the writing keeps tongue firmly in cheek).

The sections, sub-sections, and feats included in this product are:
How to Use These Feats in Your Campaign
*Monster Templates
*The Horrifically Overpowered Campaign
*Horrifically Overpowered Epic Games
The Horrifically Overpowered Feat Type
The Meta-Attack Feat Type
*Additional Meta-Attack Uses/Day
Prerequisites
The Feats
Denied
Eschew Foci
Eschew Gestures
Eschew Incantations
Extra Lives
Extra Meta-Attacks
Favored
Full Casting Action
*Greater Full Casting Action
*Ultimate Full Casting Action
Gestalt
Go First
Healing Factor
Heroic Grace
Hex Maven
Magic-User
Master of Magic Items
Mental Paragon
Offensive Combat Training
Physical Paragon
Prestigious
Skill Domination
Skill God
Spell Shifting
Supernatural Spell Monster
Unflappable
Meta-Attack Feats
Empowered Attack
Enlarged Attack
Extended Attack
Heighten Attack
Maximize Attack
Perfect Blow
Quicken Attack
Silent Attack
Still Attack
Widen Attack

Enjoy!


Bought this earlier today. Plan to have a review up by later tonight when I have been able to think about what I have read. I end up buying quite a bit of SGG material so I bought this thinking it was a joke product, but I can see uses for it.

Review up later!


Ok, call me crazy, but a tiny few of these could be modified a bit and made useful. Limiting Maximized Attack to just once per day might be workable, but I doubt I do anything like this. The optimizers in my campaign would somehow manage to break the laws of time and space with these feats. In real life.

I often add feats to low-level magic items in my campaign, rather than just say that you have a +1 or whatever weapon. I'm a proponent of the low magic campaign, and it seems to add flavor to the weapons the PC has found.

Again I *might* modify a select very few of these for such a purpose so that they only apply to the weapon. And if the weapon turns out to be too powerful, there's always the chance that something untoward happen to the weapon and the PC loses it.

Andoran

I don't think you're crazy at all. That was precisely what I thought as well.


My review is posted.

I have to say there were times I read the book and said this would have been so cool for an NPC I needed. I also thought that some of the feats would be awesome for smaller groups, and I wish that some extra time would have been spent covering this topic. I really loved the meta-attack feats. I rolled my eyes at eschew gestures/incantations.

As an April fools joke, its actually a good read, and I was glad that I could quickly find uses for the book as I read through it.

I only wish that some of the SGG's classes got their own special HOFs. Maybe as a web-enhancement? How cool would it have been to see something for time-thief, or dragonrider?

As usual SGG delivers a solid, even when their tongue is in cheek.


I'll be honest, there's a couple in here I plan on wriggling into my game. Nerfed a little, but great nonetheless. I especially like the feats that let you dabble outside of your class more easily. Really made me happy. Also like the meta-attack concept, and to a lesser degree, the multi-spell.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Wait this is a real product? I assumed it was an april fools joke.


Kolokotroni wrote:
Wait this is a real product? I assumed it was an april fools joke.

My impression is that this is both these things at the same time.

Paizo Employee Modules Overlord

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Lohan wrote:
My review is posted.

Many thanks for the review!

Lohan wrote:
I have to say there were times I read the book and said this would have been so cool for an NPC I needed. I also thought that some of the feats would be awesome for smaller groups, and I wish that some extra time would have been spent covering this topic.

I'll absolutely keep that in mind if sales actually call for a follow-up product.

Lohan wrote:
I really loved the meta-attack feats. I rolled my eyes at eschew gestures/incantations.

Those are both fair reactions. :D

Lohan wrote:
As an April fools joke, its actually a good read, and I was glad that I could quickly find uses for the book as I read through it.

That's a pretty common reaction among people who saw the manuscript early, which is truthfully a part of what I was hoping would happen.

Lohan wrote:
I only wish that some of the SGG's classes got their own special HOFs. Maybe as a web-enhancement? How cool would it have been to see something for time-thief, or dragonrider?

Again, I'll keep that in mind!

Lohan wrote:
As usual SGG delivers a solid, even when their tongue is in cheek.

Thanks!


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Dal Selpher wrote:
Kolokotroni wrote:
Wait this is a real product? I assumed it was an april fools joke.
My impression is that this is both these things at the same time.

Don't forget, last year? SGG released this Bullet Points - 7 Stupid Weapon Designs in the same vein.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

In fact, I've seen at least one feat in a published book (one that was written with serious intent, and not a joke) that was far and away more overpowered than any of these.

I doubt anyone can guess what it is, though. ;)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules Subscriber

Bought, sight-unseen. SGG always puts out solid product and I can use a chuckle. And who knows... maybe some NPCs will get their hands on some of these to give my players pause.

While I was at it, I picked up the guide to psionic feats because hey, more psionics good, yes? And guide to multiclassing feats because I've had an eye on that for a while.

Kudos to SGG for putting out a product that's 80% joke. Here, have some money.


Alzrius wrote:

In fact, I've seen at least one feat in a published book (one that was written with serious intent, and not a joke) that was far and away more overpowered than any of these.

I doubt anyone can guess what it is, though. ;)

Please stop antagonizing us with hints like this. You won't intimidate us into asking or some sort of action we would regret.

Shadow Lodge

I dunno if he's antagonizing us, or just LEADING us on...

Paizo Employee Modules Overlord

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Kolokotroni wrote:
Wait this is a real product? I assumed it was an april fools joke.

Tongue in cheek, but definitely a real product which I have heard described as "weirdly useable."

Paizo Employee Modules Overlord

2 people marked this as a favorite.
DungeonmasterCal wrote:
Ok, call me crazy, but a tiny few of these could be modified a bit and made useful.
Jeremiziah wrote:
I don't think you're crazy at all. That was precisely what I thought as well.
Shiney wrote:
I'll be honest, there's a couple in here I plan on wriggling into my game.

All proceeds as I have planned! Mua-ha-ha-ha!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I actually think that the meta-attack feats are workable, with some tweaking. I have to wonder why they weren't thought of before. They are the least horrifically overpowered of the bunch. (Whew! Say that 10 times fast.)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
Kthulhu wrote:
I dunno if he's antagonizing us, or just LEADING us on...

Oh no, it's definitely antagonism. I woke up yesterday thinking to myself "now how could I put the screws to the people on Paizo's forums?"

...and then, the answer came to me.

*evil chuckle*

Writhe in my cage of torment.


Okay, I already have this (and I love it!), but talking to some other people in my game group I was asked why anyone would WANT to buy this books, and other than saying it's funny I had no response.

Obviously a lot of people are finding a lot of use from this, and this isn't an attack. I love SGG and think many of your products are brilliant. So this question comes from a place of genuine curiosity and affection.

What did you *intend* for people to do with this? Why should anyone buy it?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Dungeon Grrrl wrote:

Okay, I already have this (and I love it!), but talking to some other people in my game group I was asked why anyone would WANT to buy this books, and other than saying it's funny I had no response.

Obviously a lot of people are finding a lot of use from this, and this isn't an attack. I love SGG and think many of your products are brilliant. So this question comes from a place of genuine curiosity and affection.

What did you *intend* for people to do with this? Why should anyone buy it?

I thought I'd give my thoughts on this question. There are some good ideas and beginnings of mechanics in this book that can help a GM make a memorable NPC with. Alternatively, a 2 or 3 person party can find some of the feats help with the game, especially if the GM hasn't figured out how, or isn't scaling down encounters.

Those two reasons were my initial thoughts on the matter. I frequently have situations where my party size is 2 or 3, rather than 4 or 5.

I also GM frequently and I do see GMs getting more out of this product, especially in a "normal" campaign.

Paizo Employee Modules Overlord

6 people marked this as a favorite.
Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
What did you *intend* for people to do with this? Why should anyone buy it?

Those are entirely fair questions, and I am not at all offended. I'd guess I'm far enough away from the release date that I can talk about this project in less hyperbolic terms without sending a mixed message.

This project didn't start life as Horrifically Overpowered feats. It started life as ideas and concepts cut from other projects, that I held on to as "too good to waste, too powerful to use." For a long time I thought I might write a book on game design that used some of these as example cases, even though that's not the kind of writing that excites the most (talking about game design is fun, writing about it is dreary). A few times I mentioned having such material, and more than one friend commented "You should just do a book of Overpowered Feats, and release them as-is."

One of the reasons I went ahead and did that was that while these ideas are (for the most part) not appropriate for a typical campaign, that doesn't mean they aren't appropriate for any campaign.

One of the things I suspect a lot of players just don't understand is how subjective rules balance is in an RPG. It depends on things like number of players, number of characters, GM play style, player play style, campaign assumptions, and so on. For example, if a GM runs a campaign centered around fighting human renegades in the woods, the ranger abilities favored enemy and favored terrain can become much more powerful, because the ranger can make choices that come up in play much more often. Similar if in that same campaign most foes are chaotic neutral anarchists, determined to tear down society for the good of its citizens, a paladin's smite evil becomes much less powerful, because it rarely comes into play. While the powers remain objectively balanced in a game with a balance of foe types and terrains, it's easy to set up a campaign that is perfectly reasonable on its own, that changes the balance of their effectiveness.

Nor are campaign locations or foe types the only thing that can have an effect. A GM who likes to throw PCs against a single foe of their CR or slightly higher as the most typical encounter degrades the value of area effect abilities. One who loves to hit PCs with 7 or 8 less dangerous encounters in a day increases the effectiveness of abilities with no daily limit. Players who spend a chunk of their money ensuring everyone has at least a few healing potions to use in emergencies have a different need for a healing-based character than a group who only spend money on ways to increase their character's core abilities. Groups who outlaw Leadership and item creation feats make magic items with very narrow uses less valuable than those that apply in a wide range of situations. Something as simply as how a group determines ability scores can change the value of abilities that depend on those values, or affect them in others.

One of the joys of designing RPGs is that there are so few hard limits, but that's also one of its great challenges. When I designed the dragonrider class, I knew some groups would disallow it as "overpowered" based just on the fact it allows a 1st level character to fly, and they prefer adventures where a pit or river is a major obstacle. I've had smart and experienced players tell me that if a class, feat, or spell allows a character to do anything characters couldn't do before it was introduced, it's overpowered. (Whereas I tend to thing if it doesn't do that, it's actually pointless.)

Some groups feel fighters are completely overshadowed by 7th level by spellcasters, while other feel fighters make the game unfun because they can take and crank out so much damage over and over and over. In truth, I suspect both groups are right for their own campaigns.

So, there are a lot of things in The Genius Guide to Horrifically Overpowered Feats that I think groups and GMs might find useful for their specific games, even though they'd be terribly disruptive in other games. But I can't tell you under exactly what circumstances a group should consider using them. I touched on some possibilities (epic games, low-player-count games, games designed to make the PCs the toughest things in existence), but it's up to each GM and group to take what they find useful.

I've never been sure how to make that point clear in a title. Since so much of what we sell is PDF only, I like making our titles very, very descriptive. If you buy The Genius Guide to Fire Magic, you should expect we'll be focusing on the ways to heat things up and burn them down. That's also why I tend to do shorter PDFs – so each covers one narrow topic, allowing players interested in that one thing to buy the book for it, and not worry about also getting lots of optional rules they have no interest in.

So instead, I just went with a title (and release date) that made it clear these feats were not for common use. And I tried to make sure I wrote in a tongue-in-cheek style, to entertain through amusement those patrons who would have no interest in trying to use the feats in any situation.

So if a slew of options that only might be of any use to you, and may require a lot of tweaking to match your campaign's style appeals to you, buy this book. If it doesn't, and the humor seems not to your liking, don't buy it. We'll catch you on the next one.

Does that answer your question?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Modules Subscriber

Being very blunt, I'm interested in this product (I'll be running a 2nd-level quickie game for just a single player...who wants to play a wizard, no less, so gaining some advantage would be helpful).

However, due to it's limited use, I'd think a slightly lower price point would make it more attractive. Is four bucks going to kill my bank account? No. But four bucks doesn't make me jump up and say, "I'll take it!" either.

Just my two cents (pun intended).


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I don't have it yet, but I kinda thought it'd be a guide to how to avoid bad design.

Paizo Employee Modules Overlord

Hideously Deformed wrote:

Being very blunt, I'm interested in this product (I'll be running a 2nd-level quickie game for just a single player...who wants to play a wizard, no less, so gaining some advantage would be helpful).

However, due to it's limited use, I'd think a slightly lower price point would make it more attractive. Is four bucks going to kill my bank account? No. But four bucks doesn't make me jump up and say, "I'll take it!" either.

I have no problem with people being blunt, as long as they are fine with a blunt reply. :D This took me more time and effort than a typical PDF its length does, and at its current price point it's a best-seller already.

I certainly sympathize if you decide it's not worth it to you, but I'm very comfortable with the price point we selected.

Paizo Employee Modules Overlord

Cheapy wrote:
I don't have it yet, but I kinda thought it'd be a guide to how to avoid bad design.

I try very hard to make our product titles :What's On The Tin" simple. So it promises overpowered feats, and that's what's in it. If I ever do a design guide, it'll be pretty clear from the title it's a design guide.

Of course a lot of other companies aren't as on-the-nose with their titles, and I could certainly see why it might seem unlikely I'd actually write more than 10 pages of overpowered feats. As a back-up, we do put out lists of content and (where possible) previews.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Sorry, I meant a guide to how to avoid bad design in a more round-about way. Not just a straight up guide.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Modules Subscriber
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

I have no problem with people being blunt, as long as they are fine with a blunt reply. :D This took me more time and effort than a typical PDF its length does, and at its current price point it's a best-seller already.

I certainly sympathize if you decide it's not worth it to you, but I'm very comfortable with the price point we selected.

It's all good, my friend, it's all good. It wasn't a criticism (or it wasn't intended as so), and the more I look at the names of the feats the more I think it could be useful.

(I'm likely to break down shortly just so I can use it for the aforementioned wizard. ;) )

Aww, hell, four bucks isn't that bad. ::gets wallet::

:D


Lohan wrote:
.
Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
What did you *intend* for people to do with this? Why should anyone buy it?
I thought I'd give my thoughts on this question. There are some good ideas and beginnings of mechanics in this book that can help a GM make a memorable NPC with. Alternatively, a 2 or 3 person party can find some of the feats help with the game, especially if the GM hasn't figured out how, or isn't scaling down encounters.

Those are both good points. I never have fewer than 5 or 6 players, but I can see how this would be a huge help for 2 player games.

And obviously every GM can use a few dirty tricks now and then. :)


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
What did you *intend* for people to do with this? Why should anyone buy it?
Those are entirely fair questions, and I am not at all offended. I'd guess I'm far enough away from the release date that I can talk about this project in less hyperbolic terms without sending a mixed message.

That was an awesome response, and I thank you. I LOVE how active you are in the Paizo community!

Since you mentioned later this is selling well, do you expect to do another Horrifically Overpowered book?

Paizo Employee Modules Overlord

Hideously Deformed wrote:
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
I have no problem with people being blunt, as long as they are fine with a blunt reply. :D This took me more time and effort than a typical PDF its length does, and at its current price point it's a best-seller already.

It's all good, my friend, it's all good. It wasn't a criticism (or it wasn't intended as so), and the more I look at the names of the feats the more I think it could be useful.

Aww, hell, four bucks isn't that bad. ::gets wallet::

I'm happy with all interactions that end with a patron buying my stuff. :)

Dungeon Grrrl wrote:
Since you mentioned later this is selling well, do you expect to do another Horrifically Overpowered book?

It's certainly possible, but for this product especially I'd want a lot more feedback than just good sales before I made that decisions.

It's perfectly possible that people are just buying this as an April Fool's gag (of course if that's true I'd be very likely to do one again next year).

It's also possible people have room for one "Horrifically Overpowered" product in their life, but don't see a need for a line of them. (In fact that strikes me as likely).

But as reviews slowly compile and more people send me emails or post here, I'll absolutely be looking to see if another such product at some point, maybe next year, makes sense.

Andoran

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Owen,
To be honest, while I agree most of the feats are straight up exactly as it says on the tin, I think the meta attack feats could actually be implemented in a normal game. Granted, I'm intending ti make them fighter only and stick some level imit requirements on them, but I don't think they'd unbalance things given the limited uses/day. Or at least not as much as some of the other feats, or some existing feats.

Ooooh, thought occurs...no, bad brain, no trying to make all metamagic feats into meta-attack feats. No. Bad. No cookie. Definitely no Dispelling Attack Meta Attack feat. And certainly not bouncing, or echoing.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I did find it funny that Denied is once per day you can ignore an attack or anything else. And there are feats in the game that's every round you can do that.

Andoran

Cheapy wrote:
I did find it funny that Denied is once per day you can ignore an attack or anything else. And there are feats in the game that's every round you can do that.

But denied has far fewer prerequisites.


This book tickled the brain a bit.

What if this is the kernel for epic Pathfinder? Similar to "E6", instead of level advancement characters get "Horrifically Overpowered" feats or close enough for every so many XP.


Ryan. Costello wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
I did find it funny that Denied is once per day you can ignore an attack or anything else. And there are feats in the game that's every round you can do that.
But denied has far fewer prerequisites.

Those feats are also situation specific - Deflect Arrows, for example. Denied is basically giving the enemy the finger. :)

Paizo Employee Modules Overlord

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Paul Watson wrote:
To be honest, while I agree most of the feats are straight up exactly as it says on the tin, I think the meta attack feats could actually be implemented in a normal game.

If you feel fighters are underpowered, they absolutely could! If you feel fighters are balanced, they would tip the scales.

Paul Watson wrote:
Ooooh, thought occurs...no, bad brain, no trying to make all metamagic feats into meta-attack feats. No. Bad. No cookie. Definitely no Dispelling Attack Meta Attack feat. And certainly not bouncing, or echoing.

Yeah, a LOT of other metamagic makes fine meta-attack, but after doing the ones in the core rules, I felt I had covered the basics. If I really do another Horrifically Overpowered Feats book, I might find some more meta-attack nuggets.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Owen, I'm going to repeat my suggestion from the Compatible Products from Other Publishers thread.

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
xorial wrote:
I think you could do a web enhancement that ties meta-attacks to Hero Points, rather than regular uses per day.
Certainly I could, and it's a fair idea. How many people are actually using hero points in their games?

It might get more of a response here.

Andoran

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Paul Watson wrote:
To be honest, while I agree most of the feats are straight up exactly as it says on the tin, I think the meta attack feats could actually be implemented in a normal game.
If you feel fighters are underpowered, they absolutely could! If you feel fighters are balanced, they would tip the scales.

I totally predicted that we'd get at least one post like this, as it's actually my opinion too. I'd limit them to fighters and rogues, though.

Paizo Employee Modules Overlord

Jeremiziah wrote:
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Paul Watson wrote:
To be honest, while I agree most of the feats are straight up exactly as it says on the tin, I think the meta attack feats could actually be implemented in a normal game.
If you feel fighters are underpowered, they absolutely could! If you feel fighters are balanced, they would tip the scales.
I totally predicted that we'd get at least one post like this, as it's actually my opinion too. I'd limit them to fighters and rogues, though.

What? Cavaliers can't get any love?

Andoran

Actually, they'd be fine for cavaliers and samurai, too. I worry about barbarians - there's a LOT of damage potential there. A case could be made for inquisitors, too, actually - as the investiture of a feat would be taxing a slot that could otherwise be devoted to metamagic.

I really, REALLY like the meta-attacks. As others have said, they feel like something that should be in the game already, but aren't. But that IS kind of your niche, Owen.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Inquisitors use metamagic?


I had a thought... If it's really so powerful... Could we just give it to NPCs using NPC classes via character feats to quickly put together interesting NPCs without being too OP?

Or are they truly that powerful(insert dramatic sting music here)


I am so interested in this product o_o


Reviewed here, on DTRPG and sent to GMS magazine. Cheers!

Minister of Propaganda, Super Genius Games

Endzeitgeist wrote:
Reviewed here, on DTRPG and sent to GMS magazine. Cheers!

Thanks End!

Paizo Employee Modules Overlord

Many thanks to Merlin_47 for the review!

Paizo Employee Modules Overlord

1 person marked this as a favorite.

So if I combine the 3 reviews here and the 1 unique review from RPGNow, I get 2 4/5 and 2 5/5, for an average of 4.5/5.

It's enough for me to seriously consider the requests I've received for more Horrifically Overpowered books. I may not even wait until next year, which just startles the heck out of me.

Qadira

Just picked this up, and I have to admit with others who've said it. This isn't an overpowered book. It's really not. Especially not "horrifically" overpowered. Granted there are a couple that might be considered broken in some people's minds, but really most of these are perfectly legit for a regular game. I'm going to be using it.


Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Many thanks to Merlin_47 for the review!

You're quite welcome and honestly Owen, they're not that overpowered. Sure, Magic User, Gestalt and Prestigious ARE, but the others really aren't that broken. There's a balance to them.

Probably the next review I do will be for the revised Godling.

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