Just picked this up, and I have to admit with others who've said it. This isn't an overpowered book. It's really not. Especially not "horrifically" overpowered. Granted there are a couple that might be considered broken in some people's minds, but really most of these are perfectly legit for a regular game. I'm going to be using it.

That would be raising all sorts of red flags for me if I thought that =/

kevin_video wrote:

Just picked this up, and I have to admit with others who've said it. This isn't an overpowered book. It's really not. Especially not "horrifically" overpowered. Granted there are a couple that might be considered broken in some people's minds, but really most of these are perfectly legit for a regular game. I'm going to be using it.

That would be raising all sorts of red flags for me if I thought that =/

No, really. Just look at a few of the feats.

So really, if you honestly look at each feat individually, they're not bad at all. Just a few here and there that you could put limitations on if you wanted to bring them into your game.

I belong in a game where Metamagic feats are given to spell casters for free. ALL of them. Why? Because you're sacrificing a feat in order for you to memorize a spell 1-5 levels higher. That's not worth it. As well, the DM made all of the crafting feats into Craft Magic Item. Again, you're wasting feats to specialize in something that's fairly unnecessary to blow it on. The only change is that if you still want to take the Metamagic feats, then 3/day you can use it without using a higher level spell slot. It makes sense to me. He also brought back Keen/Improved Critical mechanics as he read an interview that showed why it was done like that in 3.0 and why it still works in current games. It's all a matter of perspective and having an open mind.

I'm really glad so many people are finding use in these, and that's a big reason why I wrote them. I'll stand by my assessment that these are overpowered, in that there are things that an optimizer can do with them that would break many campaigns. Many groups would either not allow such special builds, or wouldn't have a problem with them, but as long as they are an option the feats don't pass muster as general use rules good for the majority of games.

BUT -- there are also lots of games where such feats are not only useable, but useful. And for those groups, I'm glad to have provided these options.

Showed a buddy of mine these and he had to agree that 95% of these were actually considered "weak" to him. He'll be allowing them in his campaigns as well.

Found this product pretty crazy(awesome) with some things, like the meta-attacks being actually more balanced than I would of originally thought.

Also, Humans with Mental Perfection and Physical Perfection for the win.

I heard about this product after a review in the Know Direction podcast. They seemed to like the options offered. It sounded fun and interesting to me even if only as a good read. After purchasing the PDF and giving it a read through I agree with the hosts of Know Direction and many on the forums here. It's a great product! Maybe not right for all games and all players but certainly useable and fun!

I plan on using it to spice up my critters! Using it as NPC/Monster feats are great ways to throw complacent players.

Much of Owen's early discussion about this product (and some other board members) appears to have some of the ring of... dare I say it D&DNext! Not all books/products are right for every game. Use the ones that work for your group and the type and style of game you want to play/run.

Thanks for a great book! Look forward to more.

Kizan

P.S. Is there a Hero Lab file for this book?

Got a question regarding the feat Prestigious. It says "your effective level is 1/2 HD - 5." So, essentially at 20th level you'd have 5th level abilities? Gestalt seems way more worth it. If for no other reason than it later states that if you take levels of the base class later, it counts as 1.5 your level instead of just half. Prestigious says you can't take levels in a prestige class to use the feat.

Got a question regarding the feat Prestigious. It says "your effective level is 1/2 HD - 5." So, essentially at 20th level you'd have 5th level abilities?

It's one-half of (your HD -5). So at 20th level it's 1/2 of (20-5), or 1/2 of (15), or 7.

Gestalt seems way more worth it. If for no other reason than it later states that if you take levels of the base class later, it counts as 1.5 your level instead of just half. Prestigious says you can't take levels in a prestige class to use the feat.

Gestalt says "character class," not "prestige class." I suppose I should have been more specific and said "base or core class," but the RAI is that gestalt applies only to base and core classes, and Prestigious applies to prestige classes.

As Magic-User allows it to be taken more than once, for different classes, why not Gestalt?

As Magic-User allows it to be taken more than once, for different classes, why not Gestalt?

Because no matter how many spells you have access to, economy of action still limits how many you can unleash at once. But many class abilities are passive and powerful, and even if you are Horrifically Overpowered you don't need access to more than 2 sets (your actual class, and those from the feat).

So honestly? Even in a book dedicated to the unbalanced, it was too unblananced.

We played a 20th level PFRPG one shot this past weekend and our DM used the horrifically overpowered feats to make our adversaries worthy. I believe he succeeded and we all had a lot of fun.

The feat worked real well in that regard, IMO.

The 20th level master of many forms monk with gestalt fighter and gestalt gunslinger (using an advanced revolver) as well as having the denied feat gave us absolute fits.

We played a 20th level PFRPG one shot this past weekend and our DM used the horrifically overpowered feats to make our adversaries worthy. I believe he succeeded and we all had a lot of fun.

The feat worked real well in that regard, IMO.

The 20th level master of many forms monk with gestalt fighter and gestalt gunslinger (using an advanced revolver) as well as having the denied feat gave us absolute fits.

Ouch!

But if you took THAT down, I think your DM was right to unleash it on you!

Not surprisingly, I have more questions.

With Gestalt (monk), do the feat grant the AC bonus of the monk?

Can an archetype be applied to the class features gained through the Gestalt feat?

If you gain the Physical Exemplar archetype from The Genius Guide To: Martial Archetypes by using the Gestalt feat, does the +1 hp/level apply to character level? Or effective class level?

I fear for what Justin will wrought.

What's the future tense of wrought anyways?

I fear for what Justin will wrought.

What's the future tense of wrought anyways?

Fear is something players should feel, not GMs. ;)

Not surprisingly, I have more questions.

We love questions!

With Gestalt (monk), do the feat grant the AC bonus of the monk?

I see what you are asking. I'd say that since the feat says all the class features (proficiencies and abilities listed in the "special" column of the class write-up) of that class other than spellcasting, that the description "all the class features" is what it gives you, and the mention of the special column is just a descriptor of where to find such.

Using that as my baseline, I'd say yes it gives you the AC bonus of the monk, as that is a class feature.

Can an archetype be applied to the class features gained through the Gestalt feat?

If your GM is allowing an archetype (and if the GM is allowing Horrifically Overpowered feats, what are the odds an archetype is going to get banned?), then certainly. You'd pick a class, select an archetype to apply to it, swap out it's class features as dictated by the selected archetype, then use gestalt to gain the new set of class features.

If you gain the Physical Exemplar archetype from The Genius Guide To: Martial Archetypes by using the Gestalt feat, does the +1 hp/level apply to character level? Or effective class level?

It's work just as outline for normal archetypes, above. You'd pick some character class to apply Physical Exemplar to, the use Gesalt to get class features of the new class + Physical Exemplar (which means you'd get +1 hp per effective level of the Gesalted class).

Thank you sir.

Also, I would like to shake your hand and thank you for all the awesome stuff y'all at SGG put out if you make it to PaizoCon this year.

Thank you sir.

Also, I would like to shake your hand and thank you for all the awesome stuff y'all at SGG put out if you make it to PaizoCon this year.

Thanks, Justin! Sadly Paizo Con does not look to be in the cards for me this year, but Stan! and Hyrum should be there, and goodness knows their hands deserve shaking too!

There's a PbP on here that just began recruitment. It's a 20th level game and the GM is allowing three HOpF as sort of epic class features.

Skimming through the book(I'll read it all later) I really like some of what I see.

Questions:

For Favored, does the bonuses for Favored Enemy also equal your HD? So with the character for this game, I would have 20 Favored Enemies and gain the bonuses to them as a 20th level Ranger would?

Also,
There's several feats that are described, but are not in the table. Spell Shifting, Supernatural Spell Monster and Unflappable for sure.

Finally,

I see there's a HOpF for the Witch, but none of the other new APG classes. Why the Witch?

And what's the likelihood there will be a sequel so the other base classes get some love, as well as the SGG creations??

Really nice work. Love the flexibility these extra options can provide.

Two questions though about the Augmenter Summoner package - doesn't taking away the summoners spells make it impossible to heal his/her eidolon?

(Note: I realize that other characters can heal the eidolon, I'm only talking about the summoner's abilities to heal it)

It seems like having an eidolon that's at max 1/2 HP until fast healing is available (LV.11) is a huge disadvantage. Was that intentional?

There's a PbP on here that just began recruitment. It's a 20th level game and the GM is allowing three HOpF as sort of epic class features.

Awesome. :D

Questions:

Sorry I missed these initially!

For Favored, does the bonuses for Favored Enemy also equal your HD? So with the character for this game, I would have 20 Favored Enemies and gain the bonuses to them as a 20th level Ranger would?

Favored gives you the benefit of taking a favored class bonus, like the +1hp and +1 skill point options listed in the core rulebook.

Also,

There's several feats that are described, but are not in the table. Spell Shifting, Supernatural Spell Monster and Unflappable for sure.

Those feats were So overpowered...

No, that's just an editing error. I'll see when the schedule will let us fix it.

I see there's a HOpF for the Witch, but none of the other new APG classes. Why the Witch?

Most of the HOpF are not class-specific (there's no HOpF for just the monk, for example). The witch happens to have a unique mechanic (hexes) that lent itself well to such a feat so we included it.

And what's the likelihood there will be a sequel so the other base classes get some love, as well as the SGG creations??

The likelihood is "high"

Really nice work. Love the flexibility these extra options can provide.

Thanks! I answered your questions here.

Might that product be eventually adjusted/revised to be used with Mythic Adventures?

THANK you sir for bumping this. I was not aware of the existence of this. And on sale! Bought.

Might that product be eventually adjusted/revised to be used with Mythic Adventures?

Certainly a sidebar is possible. I'm not sure about anything greater than that as a revision ... but I haven't ruled it out, either.

THANK you sir for bumping this. I was not aware of the existence of this. And on sale! Bought.

In fact right now EVERYTHING of ours is on sale. And if you give us your thoughts about what you'd like to see from us in this thread, you can also ask for any one pdf we put out prior to this month for free. :)

Also, enjoy!

this is beginning to look less overpowered & more Mythic. :P

My first review up and posted =)

Many thanks for the review!