Mikaze |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I just thought I'd mention that the Redeemer archetype might well have been written specifically with you in mind...
PREEMPTIVE STRIKE!
Mikaze: there's a Redemeer Half-Orc Paladin archetype. It doesn't shoot Beams of Good from eyes, but still it's something that should scratch your itch.
Just to wet Mikaze's pants some more:Quote:Redeemer (Paladin)
As most half-orcs are outcasts, a half-orc paladin
recognizes that often those who are monstrous are not
necessarily evil and that sometimes even those who
are evil became that way because of circumstances
and misfortune. Some half-orc paladins take up these
misunderstood creatures as their cause, standing up
for the monstrous creatures and, when possible, leading
them to the light. These paladins are called redeemers.
Oh my God.
:D
Seeing those words in print makes me happier than you can imagine. WANT. SO MUCH.
My copy can't get here fast enough. checks UPS Halfway there...
gbonehead Owner - House of Books and Games LLC |
Cheapy |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The undine adept is a druid that focuses on water and the creatures therein. It didn't really wow me, to be honest...
But the Watersinger bard is pure awesomeness. It might beat out Archaeologist as my favorite bard archetype. Here's the deal. They can animate and control a 5' cube of water. They can make it look however they want, and make it support weight as if solid ice. Need a short bridge? No problem. How about some cover? Sure. It's just an extremely thematic and versatile mechanic. I love it. I need to figure out who wrote it so I can sing their praises. Oh, and at higher levels, they can command it to attack, using their innate force of will to guide it. And you know that joke about Jesus being able to turn the blood of his enemies into wine? Yea, this guy can do similar things.
It's just a really cool, really well done archetype. The only issue with it is a reference to a Perform check that isn't necessary.
shadowhntr7 |
That sounds like a pretty fun bard archetype, yeah. :) Hopefully there are some racial trait changes that make them fit a bard a little better. I'd love to get the book, but Amazon doesn't have them yet and saving $13 is always a good way to go, however much I may love Paizo. I'm considering the subscription, though, having a PDF would be nice.
What about the Slyph archetypes?
Matrixryu |
But the Watersinger bard is pure awesomeness. It might beat out Archaeologist as my favorite bard archetype. Here's the deal. They can animate and control a 5' cube of water. They can make it look however they want, and make it support weight as if solid ice. Need a short bridge? No problem. How about some cover? Sure. It's just an extremely thematic and versatile mechanic. I love it. I need to figure out who wrote it so I can sing their praises. Oh, and at higher levels, they can command it to attack, using their innate force of will to guide it. And you know that joke about Jesus being able to turn the blood of his enemies into wine? Yea, this guy can do similar things.It's just a really cool, really well done archetype. The only issue with it is a reference to a Perform check that isn't necessary.
*checks* Wow, you're right, Watersinger is amazing. Definitely something that will work perfectly for people who want to create a 'waterbender' character.
Matthew Morris RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8 |
shadowhntr7 |
I went ahead and subscribed, now give me my PDF!
I can't wait to see it though, every book so far has been great. :)
Hopefully once I see the Undine ones and find out what Slyphs have, they'll let me play some of character concepts I've always wanted to try. I've never yet managed to get an air mage in a game that lasted, since I play mostly PbP- and I've made a ton of them.
Matrixryu |
OK, limited, but not super limited, with options for making it less limited (Harmonic Spell+Cantrips and lingering performance).
Shame that with the way archetypes work in PF it is impossible to put it on a Sensei monk without GM fiat.
Hmm, it would take some minor modifications to give it to the Sensei, but I would find a way just because it would be so awesome.
Also, just so you know, the 'Watersinger' gets to add pretty much every water spell there is to his/her spell list. Such a well done archetype... I think the only modification I would make is giving it some method to add a magical enhancement bonus to the water attacks (like an amulet of mighty fists), otherwise they'll be a bit unreliable.
Alexander Augunas Contributor |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Ifrit wishcrafter (sorcerer) is REALLY cool.
Totally so.
I was practicing using the Twist Wish ability all day today at work; whenever a kid would say something like, "I wish I didn't have to go outside," I would say things like, "Poof! You're a carpet. Carpets don't have to go outside."
Such a fun little sorcerer archetype!
Lord Fyre RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |
Robert Little wrote:Anyone know where the Pure Strain spell listed in the Imperious bloodline bonus spells is located?Nowhere - that's an error that the devs will need to address. It sure does sound eugenics-ish.
Shades of Harry Potter.
Petty Alchemy RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16 |
It looks like the Grippli got the Aquaman end of the stick when it comes to archetypes :/
Tell me there's more to it than just swim speed and amphibian. Alchemists can already cast Alter Self, and the Beastmorph Alchemist appends it to his mutagens.
I'm a big Grippli fan (and quite partial to Vanara), I hope there's some gems there at least.
bigkilla |
I must say I really did not want to give this book a chance as I thought it was just going to be the crazy race building rules.Flipping through the PDF it looks pretty darned good, I like the write ups on the races and all the various options, especially the racial archetypes.
I still doubt I will allow players to use 90% of the races in the book but it looks better than I expected.
Mikaze |
Got it.
I'm still trying to sneak in some time to give it the full read-through, but so far I've got pretty mixed feelings.
I have to admit, the big thing I was hoping for outside the race-building rules didn't make it. It ran in the exact opposite direction in fact. I probably shouldn't have gotten my hopes up to start with, but the Orc entry was the first thing I went to. Just can't win with Golarion material or setting neutral material it seems. :( I guess that means that hope is shot down for good. I get that the guys in charge of the setting don't like the idea of non-evil orcs and don't want to support it, but couldn't we have had them in the setting-neutral stuff? All that flavor written up, and it was just a repeat of Orcs of Golarion.
I really, really like the redeemer. I've got a lot more to say about this one when I do a full read-through, but this one feels "more paladin than paladin" in a lot of ways.
The art here tends towards awesome.
Robert Little |
Generic Villain wrote:Shades of Harry Potter.Robert Little wrote:Anyone know where the Pure Strain spell listed in the Imperious bloodline bonus spells is located?Nowhere - that's an error that the devs will need to address. It sure does sound eugenics-ish.
I have a feeling it will work similarly to the Half-Orc Extraction spell from ARG and allow the caster to turn a willing half-breed into a human permanently (both seem to be 5th level spells, so its the right power level).
Lord Fyre RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Mikaze, when one's views are extremely fringe, it's probably best to never get your hopes up.
"Extremely fringe"? Really? Define?
Did someone take a poll of the Gaming population recently?I have to admit, the big thing I was hoping for outside the race-building rules didn't make it. It ran in the exact opposite direction in fact. I probably shouldn't have gotten my hopes up to start with, but the Orc entry was the first thing I went to. Just can't win with Golarion material or setting neutral material it seems. :( I guess that means that hope is shot down for good. I get that the guys in charge of the setting don't like the idea of non-evil orcs and don't want to support it, but couldn't we have had them in the setting-neutral stuff? All that flavor written up, and it was just a repeat of Orcs of Golarion.
Always Chaotic Evil is a HUGE reason why I would prefer to play in a genre other then Fantasy.
Unfortunately, most of the systems out there have a shocking dirth of supporting material.The art here tends towards awesome.
Paizo's art always tends toward Awesome. :D
Mikaze |
4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Mikaze, when one's views are extremely fringe, it's probably best to never get your hopes up.
Prefering non-always-evil orcs and not liking Always Chaotic Evil being pushed hard and fast as gospel and not liking to have every non-evil character from certain races forced into the "Drizzt/lone rebel against his own kind" role is hardly fringe.
Berselius |
Prefering non-always-evil orcs and not liking Always Chaotic Evil being pushed hard and fast as gospel and not liking to have every non-evil character from certain races forced into the "Drizzt/lone rebel against his own kind" role is hardly fringe.
Orcs? Evil? HEAVENS NO! Orcs are race of spiritual vegetarian nomads steeped in tradition and honor who inhabit the "Plains of Maltak"! Their people are famous for their Huk Thak Warriors (Fighter Archetype), their Akta Lifegivers (Oracle Archetype), their Nakta Deathguides (Oracle Archetype), and their Chandak Performers (Bard Archetype). They worship Mshgruu (Orcish Deity of the Orcs, Honor, Nature, and War)! ^_~
GarvokTla |
First off i'd like to give 2 thumbs up to paizo for putting this book out and working hard on it. Its a great book full of helpful content. there is one place where it is "iffy" in its lack of consideration and balancing; the build your own race. i realize that this area of the game let alone this book is often shaded with grey or mixed feelings dependant upon your group/DM(GM). However, there are some aspects of the racial point buy system that really need a once over again. For instance the racial stat block building section. makes no sense mathematically but in its breakdown of categories (human, standard, flexible) makes some sense for their racial point costs. there are a few that do not however; Paragon, greater paragon, advanced, weakness, and greater weakness. A lot of these groupings do not break down mathematically to match up with another in RP costs. Nor do a few of the Traits add up either. Flying 2 for 30ft(clumsy), 2rp for +10ft and one step improvement on flight control. Nice, but doesn't add up to some races like the Strix for RP costs (probably why they excluded it from the breakdown). Swim 30ft., 2rp gets +10ft. Good, but then have a 4RP cost of Water Child that gets you +8 to swim skill and can take 10s. Cost makes some sense in that it improves a skill that much, but the ability to have a swim speed inherently gives you +4 or +8 (i dont recall) and can take 10s (unless in stressful situations)to the skill anyhow. This doesnt add up. There are a few others that do not add up either, but i was only able to take so many notes since i read it while at a friend's who has it already.
Shadows_Of_Fall |
From what little I've heard from a friend (long distance acquaintances who know each other love Pathfinder), this book is going to be awesome. Subscribed at like 7 or 8 EST so maybe if I'm *REALLY* lucky it will ship either tomorrow (most definitely not THAT lucky) or Saturday (oh god please).
But it would be awesome if it came in 1 or 2 days, then I could use it for my new summer campaign. I had already planned for them to start off in a huge racially diverse area where Orcs and Kobolds are treated as equals-ish and the 'savage' Orcs live a somewhat peaceful nomadic life outside of the city and act as hunter-gatherer traders. With this book I can not only enhance those NPCs but give my players some cool new options to play :)
All I need to do is figure out how to make them ship it in 1 to 2 business days so I can get my PDF >_< WHY DOESN'T MAGIC EXIST IN REAL LIFE. IT COULD SO HELP WITH THIS DILEMMA.
Looking forward to all core races, drow, dhampir, catfolk, duergar, genie races and...well...everything probably...but those the most...maybe.
PepticBurrito |
correction: Water child gives +4 not +8 to swim skill and can take 10s. which doesnt help with its heavy 4rp cost vs the 2rp for swim speed 30ft.
Having a swim speed won't save you from failing a swim check on drowning. Swimming underwater under less than ideal circumstances can easily drown a PC. Getting a +4 on top of skill points AND being able to take 10 will eventually guarantee that under pretty much all circumstances, you can't drown.
Having a swim speed just means, as long as you don't go under water, you're okay. There is a functional difference between the two.
Mort the Cleverly Named |
Having a swim speed just means, as long as you don't go under water, you're okay. There is a functional difference between the two.
Uh... I would recommend you read up on swim speed. Having one gives you +8 to all swim checks, lets you take 10 in all circumstances, and allows you to use the run action while swimming. Water Child is just a worse version of it, with half the bonus and (in nearly all cases) a slower speed, and for some reason twice the price (perhaps the swim speed is advanced only or something?).
Have other people had a chance to look over the Race Builder section yet? I'd be interested to see how much it has changed from the Playtest (other than the "core races don't add up to 10 anymore" thing that was already mentioned). Hopefully it has been smoothed out, and this is just something that slipped through the cracks (or has a pre-req that went unnoticed).
PepticBurrito |
PepticBurrito wrote:Having a swim speed just means, as long as you don't go under water, you're okay. There is a functional difference between the two.Uh... I would recommend you read up on swim speed. Having one gives you +8 to all swim checks, lets you take 10 in all circumstances, and allows you to use the run action while swimming. Water Child is just a worse version of it, with half the bonus and (in nearly all cases) a slower speed, and for some reason twice the price (perhaps the swim speed is advanced only or something?).
Have other people had a chance to look over the Race Builder section yet? I'd be interested to see how much it has changed from the Playtest (other than the "core races don't add up to 10 anymore" thing that was already mentioned). Hopefully it has been smoothed out, and this is just something that slipped through the cracks (or has a pre-req that went unnoticed).
I have the PDF in front of me. They are separated into different categories.
Water Child is an alternate elven racial trait.
Swim in the race builder. It is a movement racial trait of the standard kind.
I assume this is done so the GM can say "You can use alt racial traits, but we aren't racial building for this campaign".
Mort the Cleverly Named |
I have the PDF in front of me. They are separated into different categories.
Water Child is an alternate elven racial trait.
Swim in the race builder. It is a movement racial trait of the standard kind.I assume this is done so the GM can say "You can use alt racial traits, but we aren't racial building for this campaign".
I am aware that Water Child is an elven alternate racial trait. However, according to GarvokTla's post, it is also in the race builder at a cost of 4, while the completely superior Swim speed is 2. Checking the Playtest, it was in there too (under "Skill and Feat Abilities - Standard Abilities"), with the same issue (except that Water Child cost 2 and Swim cost 1). The issue isn't that every player is going to take Swim instead of Water Child (since they likely won't have that option), it is that the race builder values Water Child twice as highly as Swim (despite it, again, just being universally worse). It doesn't bode well for a point system when something is half as good and costs twice as much.
PepticBurrito |
PepticBurrito wrote:I am aware that Water Child is an elven alternate racial trait. However, according to GarvokTla's post, it is also in the race builder at a cost of 4, while the completely superior Swim speed is 2. Checking the Playtest, it was in there too (under "Standard Abilities), with the same issue (except that Water Child cost 2 and Swim cost 1). The issue isn't that every player is going to take Swim instead of Water Child (since they likely won't have that option), it is that the race builder values Water Child twice as highly as Swim (despite it, again, just being universally worse). It doesn't bode well for a point system when something is half as good and costs twice as much.I have the PDF in front of me. They are separated into different categories.
Water Child is an alternate elven racial trait.
Swim in the race builder. It is a movement racial trait of the standard kind.I assume this is done so the GM can say "You can use alt racial traits, but we aren't racial building for this campaign".
They are separated kinds of traits. Swim is movement. Water Child is feat/skill. Which means they stack. This alone could explain why they cost different.
Judging from the example builds, swim meant to be context sensitive. Gillman, for example, have both a land speed and a swim speed. They are amphibians who are water dependent, i.e. they must go back to the water or have named affects.
Swim is also a useful buy for an underwater based campaign and in said campaign would be function the same as walking for the PCs.
Water Child is meant to be an racial trait replacement for elves in particular, without causing a power boost. It's cost reflects that. Giving an Elf "swim" would certainly be worth more than Water Child.
Basically, each ability buy has to be taken in context. Elves don't get swim, Lizardfolk do. If you want an Elf to be able to naturally swim is more expensive than it is for a Lizardfolk.
I can see the logic for it. The book clearly requires GMs to think if they allow players to do racial builds from scratch. There are guidelines that basically come to do "does this racial build make sense?". In the end, the GM will have to say "No, you can't make a water elf, that exists already and it requires water child. If you want a water elf, build a water version of Gillman and take some negatives to balance it out".
This book can clearly break a game before the first session. It also opens up doors for the GM and players that weren't available before. The GM just has to say "No, that doesn't work. Try again".
GarvokTla |
well, nice to see some feedback on my post. to help clear things up though, Water Child is not elf (or helf elf) specific. it was used in those races because yes there are aquatic versions of those races. in most of the other skill traits the RP cost is 1rp for +1 to 2 skills, +2 skills cost 2-4rp, +4 skills cost 1-5rp, each of the variable skill ones usually do makes sense the higher bonus for lesser RP cost is due to the limitation or situational uses of the skill. Yes, i did compare a skill trait verse a movement trait (and that they could stack, but who would spend 4rp for Water Child(+4swim and take 10) instead of Skill Focus(+4 early, +8 later) to stack with swim? absolutely no one who thought about it and understands the rules of swim speed and what bonuses it gives you.
you guys focus on one section of my example without seeing the rest of the post for what it is. which is that some of the racial build system does not add up for balancing issues with other abilities that are equally available.
yes the DM will have to be more judicial on the availablility of certain racial abilities and the book pretty much explains that when they say its an "option".
all i'm saying is as an option and as a rule set for racial builds and new races, that they should balance it more and figured out the point system a little better than they had. its a great lay out as is, its just the point costs dont always make sense. it can be argued that the evolutionary points for the Summoner eidolon is the same way. Yes, it all depends on your players and what the Gm allows, but if you are making a rules system to set an exampled pressident(sp?) for you to base most if not all variations and races on, then it should be more balanced and thought through.
doc the grey |
bloodmagekoboldbushwhackermutilatingtieflingsummonerplaguealchemistratfolkd uergarstuffaougpaidoainoiajguasoignasin
\ | /
0.0
That's my brain exploding. Paizo I want this more then any book you have pushed out and I can't wait till it hits shelves, what's even better is that you can put it out within a week of my birthday you always know what to get me lol.
Now is there anything for Hobgoblins, Also what does the kobold bushwhacker get/how is it different from the normal gunslinger, are there elf wizard archetypes, half-elf sorcerer archetypes, and what does the dhamphir blood mage do?
Ohh other thing do any of the new half-elf traits replace the adaptive trait (the one that lets you have 2 favored classes)?