Brag, why don't you. With my luck I won't get it until Friday.

Just got a notice that mine was shipping :) Can't wait to see it :)

I got my pdf yesterday, and I'm very happy with what I've read so far. Everything in this book is very well done and flavorful.

One of my favorite new things in the book is the Shadow Caller summoner archetype (in the fletchling section). It edits your summon monster lists with shadow themes and replaces your glowing summoner symbol with a 'your eidolon is your detached shadow' theme. It also gives eidolons some shadow and incorporeal themed evolutions. My current synth summoner has a shadow theme, so this is going to fit him very well.

Also, Kitsunes are now by far the best Enchanter Sorcerers in the game. They get a Sorcerer favored class bonus that adds +1/4 to their enchantment spell DCs. Combine that with their +1 to enchantment DC racial bonus, and they can get up to +6 by level 20 without even using feats. That's kind of crazy, it might even be the one thing in the book I've seen that could be called overpowered, though I guess it is offset by the fact that so many things are simply immune to most enchantment spells by that level.

Less bragging, more spoiling plox.

It's great.

So... anything for Dragon races(besides Kobolds)?

Well, now that this is out I can say that my only criticism of the book so far is that there are no archetypes for Ninjas, Samurai or Anti-Paladins.

Which is a shame because there is a piece of Fetchling artwork that would make for a darn good Samurai.

dunebugg wrote:

For any of those who have already: what kind of new Kitsune feats are there?

They get 2 new feats;

Magical Tail - gain a spell-like ability and grow a tail, you can take it 8 times.
Realistic Likeness - look like someone you have encountered when you use your change shape ability +10 on disguise check.

Enjoy!

Magical Tail sounds quite awesome, and very kitsune in its flavor.

Anyone else getting a serious Dark Sun vibe from a not-insignificant amount of the artwork?

Also, I enjoyed the nod to lizardfolk at the front of the Race Builder section. I knew they wouldn't be a featured race, so it was nice to see them get some love.

The list above is missing the Foehammer archetype for the dwarf that was mentioned earlier in the thread.

Just noting it for completeness.

Downloaded!!! Why won't you unzip faster.

That's kind of crazy, it might even be the one thing in the book I've seen that could be called overpowered, though I guess it is offset by the fact that so many things are simply immune to most enchantment spells by that level.

It seems like the wyroot weapons in the elf chapter can grant you the ability to refill your entire ki pool or arcane pool after every fight for 1000 gp. That seems a bit much for me. It's honestly a problem with any unlimited ability to drain things by hitting stuff. Even if the GM adds in clauses not present in the ARG (like saying you have to hit a creature of such-and-such CR), you can always hold one captive and unconscious for this purpose, essentially spending CLW charges to get back ki or arcane pool points, which is still a big win.

Please, please tell me that the Gnome's Saboteur Alchemist and/or some of the other race's Alchemist Archetypes totally replace Mutagens! I love the Alchemist, but don't really like the Mutagen ability at all. So far I've been disappointed that neither UM or UC have had any truly Mutagen free Archetypes. Mindchemist came close, but Cognatogen uses the same mechanic as Mutagen....

It's going to be a long wait to the 20th....

Please, please tell me that the Gnome's Saboteur Alchemist and/or some of the other race's Alchemist Archetypes totally replace Mutagens! I love the Alchemist, but don't really like the Mutagen ability at all. So far I've been disappointed that neither UM or UC have had any truly Mutagen free Archetypes. Mindchemist came close, but Cognatogen uses the same mechanic as Mutagen....

It's going to be a long wait to the 20th....

Saboteur does replace Mutagen, but you get an ability that is like a mutagen instead (its like a mutagen, but it gives you stealth bonuses instead of combat bonuses, and it gives -2 Strength).

I believe the Plague Bringer archetype replaces Mutagen with a sort of bottled plague ability. You drink it, and creatures that hit you (or are hit by your weapon) have to make saving throws to prevent bad things from happening.

I just got the shipping email

Saboteur does replace Mutagen, but you get an ability that is like a mutagen instead (its like a mutagen, but it gives you stealth bonuses instead of combat bonuses, and it gives -2 Strength).

I believe the Plague Bringer archetype replaces Mutagen with a sort of bottled plague ability. You drink it, and creatures that hit you (or are hit by your weapon) have to make saving throws to prevent bad things from happening.

Thank you both. I wonder why it seems so difficult to replace Mutagen with something completely different. Regardless, I look forward to reading the full Archetypes and everything else in this book.

Thank you both. I wonder why it seems so difficult to replace Mutagen with something completely different.

Because it's a defining, very powerful core feature/mechanic for the class with a detailed level progression?

Just got mine today.

There's a very nice picture of a female dwarf in the dwarf section. The racial examples are thankfully clothed and geared and it looks like the race is always the opposite gender of what it was first presented as (female dwarf, female halfling, female elf, male human, male half-elf, male gnome, etc.).

Anything that was first presented in the Advanced Player's Guide has been reprinted; namely Favored Class Bonuses and Racial Traits. There's also a section called "Racial Subtypes" for the Core Races, but for those of you who remember Forgotten Realms (aka Shield Dwarf, Hill Dwarf, etc.) its NOTHING like that. Racial Subtypes are more like racial themes, in my opinion.

And oh man, I've only gotten through the Dwarves, but they get one of the COOLEST cleric archetypes I've ever seen! If you've ever played Warhammer Fantasy Battle, you *may* know what to expect.

Because it's a defining, very powerful core feature/mechanic for the class with a detailed level progression?

I do not believe this to be true. Any Alchemist that emphasizes his bombs has little need for it, as he is very likely to hit touch AC anyway and a penalty to Wisdom can be painful. Certainly, for the "Mr Hyde" types it is a defining, powerful feature, but in my experience those are fewer in number than the bomb tossers.

Beyond that, what is wrong with removing a powerful core feature of a class? Archaeologist removed Bardic Performance, numerous Monk archetypes remove Flurry of Blows, and the vast majority of Rogue archetypes remove Trapfinding. Removing a core feature just opens up interesting design spaces, while giving choices to those who find a certain feature anathema to their character concept. Some people find Mutagen to be an odd feature, and would love the ability to trade it out for some other option, even if it is a bit weaker.

First off thank you to all of the subscribers, this is the 3rd or 4th book that you guys spoiled for me and the other non-subscribers and I love each and everyone of you for it.

second looking at the list of archetypes would anyone be willing willing to give a spoiler or two on the Sword master, Experimental Gunsmith, Wanderer, and/or Dusk Stalker?

First off thank you to all of the subscribers, this is the 3rd or 4th book that you guys spoiled for me and the other non-subscribers and I love each and everyone of you for it.

second looking at the list of archetypes would anyone be willing willing to give a spoiler or two on the Sword master, Experimental Gunsmith, Wanderer, and/or Dusk Stalker?

The Experimental Gunsmith puts weird gadgets on their guns to gain effects like increased capacity or no recoil, sometimes at the cost of additional misfire chance. The Wanderer is hard to track, locate, or detect, and shares wisdom with allies to increase their skill. I haven't gotten to the other two yet--only finished the core races.

SquishyPoetFromBeyondTheStars wrote:

First off thank you to all of the subscribers, this is the 3rd or 4th book that you guys spoiled for me and the other non-subscribers and I love each and everyone of you for it.

second looking at the list of archetypes would anyone be willing willing to give a spoiler or two on the Sword master, Experimental Gunsmith, Wanderer, and/or Dusk Stalker?

The Experimental Gunsmith puts weird gadgets on their guns to gain effects like increased capacity or no recoil, sometimes at the cost of additional misfire chance. The Wanderer is hard to track, locate, or detect, and shares wisdom with allies to increase their skill. I haven't gotten to the other two yet--only finished the core races.

Awesome the Experimental Gunsmith will fit into my homebrewed world so perfectly.

Thanks Rogue Eidolon you've officially sold me 100% on this book.

can anyone tell me about the Spell Dancer?

MarioMD wrote:

Because it's a defining, very powerful core feature/mechanic for the class with a detailed level progression?

I do not believe this to be true. Any Alchemist that emphasizes his bombs has little need for it, as he is very likely to hit touch AC anyway and a penalty to Wisdom can be painful. Certainly, for the "Mr Hyde" types it is a defining, powerful feature, but in my experience those are fewer in number than the bomb tossers.

So far I've had the opposite experience, (more mutagens than bombs) but I'd say it seems if you're an alchemist ignoring either one it would just be a failure to utilize your full tool set, since they both have limited number of uses, right?

Beyond that, what is wrong with removing a powerful core feature of a class? Archaeologist removed Bardic Performance, numerous Monk archetypes remove Flurry of Blows, and the vast majority of Rogue archetypes remove Trapfinding. Removing a core feature just opens up interesting design spaces, while giving choices to those who find a certain feature anathema to their character concept. Some people find Mutagen to be an odd feature, and would love the ability to trade it out for some other option, even if it is a bit weaker.

I do not disagree with anything you've said. However, I do think that removing a core feature that affects the balance of a class is rare, difficult to do, and usually err on the side of less powerful than the standard options. Am I wrong?

can anyone tell me about the Spell Dancer?

They trade out the ability to enhance a weapon with arcane pool for some mobility. They also lose medium and heavy armor for some dodge bonuses, but not as good as what the kensai gets in that department (and since they trade out the same thing, you can't have both).

I got the ARG,
and it has some really nice stuff.

I'm not listing everything

and yes there are spells in the book

I still feel like slow should be -2 with encumbrance removed from it and have it as a separate option.

Oh my god, the Grippli artwork is amazing. If that had been in the bestiary I probably would have played one by now :p

Also, where were the Samsarans originally printed?

Also, where were the Samsarans originally printed?

Dragon Empires Gazetteer/Primer.

Also, where were the Samsarans originally printed?

Samsarans, Kitsune, Nagaji, and Wayangs were originally printed in the Dragon Empires Gazetteer and the Dragon Empires Primer.

(Tengu were also in those books, though of course they had previously appeared in the first Bestiary)

EDIT: Gninja'ed by the ultimate Gninja!!!

The racial examples are thankfully clothed and geared and it looks like the race is always the opposite gender of what it was first presented as (female dwarf, female halfling, female elf, male human, male half-elf, male gnome, etc.).

No half-orc picture :(? And can anyone tell me what new things the half-orc got?

there are 4 archetypes
and a good number of feats

Alexander Augunas wrote:

The racial examples are thankfully clothed and geared and it looks like the race is always the opposite gender of what it was first presented as (female dwarf, female halfling, female elf, male human, male half-elf, male gnome, etc.).

No half-orc picture :(? And can anyone tell me what new things the half-orc got?

Umm.. he said 'etc...'

waitan

longan

wantan

I just thought I'd mention that the Redeemer archetype might well have been written specifically with you in mind...

What sort of favored class options to Tiefling and Damphire get?

** spoiler omitted **...

Awesome! Thanks :)

I was unable to find information about "balancing" more powerful races against the Core Races.

The Female Orc in the orc section is probly the first time i ever thought an Orc was beautiful.. i feel a bit ashamed really...

The Female Orc in the orc section is probly the first time i ever thought an Orc was beautiful.. i feel a bit ashamed really...

Orcs have a different kind of beauty...no shame in it. :)

I was unable to find information about "balancing" more powerful races against the Core Races.

Personally, I think the best way to do it is to use the new race creator to either give new abilities to the core races or take away abilities from the powerful races until the characters are even.

I was unable to find information about "balancing" more powerful races against the Core Races.

The powerful races in the book are broken down by race build points starting on page 239—you could reduce the available race points and remove abilities from those powerful races to match the standard races.

I'm really torn about this one. I feel like the Archetypes are very hit-or-miss in regards to whether I personally think they should be race specific. For example, each and every dwarf archetype is oozing with dwarfy goodness (again, the Cleric Archetype is the most interesting Cleric Option I've ever seen and it only feels *right* for dwarves).

On the other hand, none of the Half-Elf archetypes scream, "Yeah, only a half-elf could do this" to me. Its further mucked up by the fact that the book never states whether the archetypes are race-exclusive or merely more common to a particular race; there's even an elf option that makes things even more complicated because it says that it is a spell favored by elves, half-elves, and halflings. There are also tons of feats that don't have race as a requirement that are juxtaposed alongside races that do. I need to meditate on this ....

In other news, the catfolk art looks GREAT. At least, if you prefer "catfolk" to "cat-faced humans" like I do.

Lord Fyre wrote:

I was unable to find information about "balancing" more powerful races against the Core Races.

The powerful races in the book are broken down by race build points starting on page 239—you could reduce the available race points and remove abilities from those powerful races to match the standard races.

Hmmmm ... Not happy with this option. (Which was STILL not offered in the Book.)

I have found it on Page 219. But that will cause arguements if one player is allowed a more powerful race then the others.

Liz Courts wrote:

Lord Fyre wrote:

I was unable to find information about "balancing" more powerful races against the Core Races.

The powerful races in the book are broken down by race build points starting on page 239—you could reduce the available race points and remove abilities from those powerful races to match the standard races.

Hmmmm ... Not happy with this option. (Which was STILL not offered in the Book.)

I have found it on Page 219. But that will cause arguements if one player is allowed a more powerful race then the others.

Well, you can always give the race with less points a few extra to even it out with DM approval of option choices so that the base race flavor remains intact.

My DM and I have been discussing this option since the playtest and we're looking foward to seeing how well it works.

Liz Courts wrote:

Lord Fyre wrote:

I was unable to find information about "balancing" more powerful races against the Core Races.

The powerful races in the book are broken down by race build points starting on page 239—you could reduce the available race points and remove abilities from those powerful races to match the standard races.

Hmmmm ... Not happy with this option. (Which was STILL not offered in the Book.)

I have found it on Page 219. But that will cause arguements if one player is allowed a more powerful race then the others.

May I suggest the novel solution of not allowing that past the core races?

Is there any Ratfolk art of note?

Are the new half-orc options any good? I love playing them, but occasionally suffer from human-envy.