Pathfinder Battles—Rise of the Runelords

If the whole litmus for purchasing miniatures case after case is to get a whole set the I would say the wiz kids model seems good thus far.

Had you considered buying two cases of lords of madness and buying singles to full in gaps? Probably cost in the neighborhood of $350...I'm pretty sure we all know that once you venture into second case and beyond with WOTC miniatures you get tons of repeats. Smart money says to go to the secondary singles market at that point.

I'm not arguing the quality hell I got a set of heroes and monsters. However it's not all roses as I've heard more than my share of complaints amongst gamers I talk to abiut the colors being used. Sculpt wise I think they're clearly superior but jury is still out on paints to me.

Again sets looking great this far but at over $500 that's a tough pill to swallow. Factor in the amazing rune giant and shipping and it's closer to $600

The rune giant is $10 for subscribers, and the $10-off-shipping-over-$100-purchase really helps with the shipping. For domestic subscribers, the total should still be under $550, even if you don't have it shipped with other subscriptions to save even more on shipping.

Again sets looking great this far but at over $500 that's a tough pill to swallow. Factor in the amazing tune giant and shipping and it's closer to $600

If you buy them at a local store you pay $519 + $10 dollars for the rune giant and looking for far less then the $600 you mentioned.

I'll be surprised to see those for that price at a FLGS. Let's revisit they idea once they start offering them. I'm pretty sure my FLGS was about $250 a case with dragon, whereas online was closer to $200.

Really not fair to bring up subscriber prices is it? At over $500I have to wonder how many people will be able to subscribe to three cases a year.

If this is a one off thing for a case that's I've thing...but wow are there people actually saying they didn't get struck by that sticker price?

I subscribed to three cases of the Runelord release.

Cool, pretty sure most won't be wiling to spend over 5 grand a year on miniatures

I subscribed to three cases of the Runelord release.

I'll be surprised to see those for that price at a FLGS. Let's revisit they idea once they start offering them. I'm pretty sure my FLGS was about $250 a case with dragon, whereas online was closer to $200.

Really not fair to bring up subscriber prices is it? At over $500I have to wonder how many people will be able to subscribe to three cases a year.

If this is a one off thing for a case that's I've thing...but wow are there people actually saying they didn't get struck by that sticker price?

I think of it in terms of price per mini. The actual cost isn't that significant to me since it was expected and paizo rather conveniently didn't sell me much in February and march, so I could pick up some gift vouchers and spread the purchase.

Really not fair to bring up subscriber prices is it?

*looks at Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber tag* Seems fair to me. Yeah, I winced when I saw the price and am on record with preferring the price tag on a smaller set, but I still want a full collection of minis.

Eh I'm just hoping that maybe this sort of thing is more like once or once a year tops. Quality looking good though no doubt there

Well, the price from other retailers is already down to 414$ for the case bundle of a Standard case and Huge case with Rune Giant so there are other options for people looking to get them cheaper.

I'll be surprised to see those for that price at a FLGS. Let's revisit they idea once they start offering them. I'm pretty sure my FLGS was about $250 a case with dragon, whereas online was closer to $200.

Really not fair to bring up subscriber prices is it? At over $500I have to wonder how many people will be able to subscribe to three cases a year.

If this is a one off thing for a case that's I've thing...but wow are there people actually saying they didn't get struck by that sticker price?

Heroes and Monsters was $274 a case and my local store offered it to me at THAT price. Plus I got the Dragon for the discounted price of about 4 bucks. My local store mentioned to me as well that yes they WILL be selling the case this time around for the listed price of 519 dollars and will do the same discount for the Rune Giant.

So with that being said my local store is still ordering almost 200 cases and of that they already have 75 in pre-orders (if I remember correctly, I mentioned it earlier in the thread). So yes the local stores here where I am quite a bit. They sell quite a few cases too.

Your prices are way off on the ones you listed. From what I have seen most stores are listing them at the price that Paizo is offering.

So yes it is fair to bring up subscriber prices because it is the "list" price that everyone pays not JUST subscribers.

The main thing you should remember is that NO ONE is forcing you to buy these miniatures. Your voice counts by NOT buying them and acts as a voice of dissension. Complaining, while might make you feel good or some such, does little to no good other then just plain rant, just to rant.

Ah right the shut up and buy idea, forgot that people aren't allowed to voice concerns or comments on a product discussion page. Rather trollish to suggest that don't you think? There have been more than a few on this thread mentioning the price are they allowed to speak or am I the only silenced one oh gracious one ?

In any event we will agree to disagree. I thinks theyre fairly highly priced (as did many other posters in the thread). Others feel the price is fine, meh lol. No point trying to beat the idea to death gets me all worked up n thirst for that refreshing koolaid ;)

Ah right the shut up and buy idea, forgot that people aren't allowed to voice concerns or comments on a product discussion page. Rather trollish to suggest that don't you think? There have been more than a few on this thread mentioning the price are they allowed to speak or am I the only silenced one oh gracious one ?

First, I am not telling you to shut up and buy. I would NOT do so. I just do not see the need for ranting for the sake of ranting when it is not truly going to accomplish anything to alleviate the pricing of this set. But hey if you feel like I told you to shut up and buy then I guess that is on you and not myself. I did not even suggest it other then mentioning I would not do so and do not know why anyone would rant about something you have no power to change?

But I guess it is just me hehe Thanks for calling me the gracious one, I am rather nice :)

By the way just to say this again my above postings are my opinion, not an order to you or anyone else on here. So speak and be free as it were if that is what you feel. But why I do not know.

In any event we will agree to disagree. I thinks theyre fairly highly priced (as did many other posters in the thread). Others feel the price is fine, meh lol. No point trying to beat the idea to death gets me all worked up n thirst for that refreshing koolaid ;)

The price is comparable to the Heroes and Monsters set just the overall cost of the case is slightly higher. If you break down the actual cost of each mini you will see that they are as close to the individual cost of the H&M set. They are also comparable to the WotC minis adjusted for inflation and time and yet no one complained about them at all or tried to change their costs (sarcasm).

WotC would ignore any input from it's fan base about what should be done next and what the fan would like to see from a PPM all together but Paizo DOES listen to what the fan wants but can not set the overall pricing, but they at least determine what mostly does in to each case set and right now I am enjoying what they are doing. I will post a review if I do not like them. But this set is immensely better then the H&M set in both sculpt and paint and if this is any indication of a trend I am looking forward to the next set.

Thanks

Nah it's cool man I may have been a wee bit outta line. I just have to hope that going forward they offer a mix of prices and set sizes. I think at this size and price three tunes a year myself and a lot of others would have to skip some sets :/

I think part of the problem with those who don't think the price is to high, don't understand those that think they are because, Minus the Huge Minis, they are almost the same price per mini as the last set.

Yeah h&m was pretty cool, if they came out of the gate with this sorta set I probably would have skipped it but seeing the quality of h&m helps to get me sold on this set. Well ok no more red headed fighter gnomes ;)

I think 120 - 140 sculpts a year is my limit. Be it 60 figure sets or 40 figure sets, I don't care. after I sell back all but one of each of the humanoids to my FLGS, I'll most likely be paying the same for the H&M case that I kept all of, and still have more figures

I think part of the problem with those who don't think the price is to high, don't understand those that think they are because, Minus the Huge Minis, they are almost the same price per mini as the last set.

With double the minis for each set too :)

So if you double the amount of minis you get Small/Medium and Larges you will be paying the same price per mini that you were for the H&M set. With the H&M set you got 64 small/Medium's and 16 larges. With this set.. that will double. So you are getting 128 Small/Mediums and 34 larges. Add the Huge minis to that mix and you are coming out at almost the same price point as you were with the H&M set.

Making sense? Ir is this what you were trying to say?

Aarontendo wrote:

In any event we will agree to disagree. I thinks theyre fairly highly priced (as did many other posters in the thread). Others feel the price is fine, meh lol. No point trying to beat the idea to death gets me all worked up n thirst for that refreshing koolaid ;)

The price is comparable to the Heroes and Monsters set just the overall cost of the case is slightly higher. If you break down the actual cost of each mini you will see that they are as close to the individual cost of the H&M set. They are also comparable to the WotC minis adjusted for inflation and time and yet no one complained about them at all or tried to change their costs (sarcasm).

WotC would ignore any input from it's fan base about what should be done next and what the fan would like to see from a PPM all together but Paizo DOES listen to what the fan wants but can not set the overall pricing, but they at least determine what mostly does in to each case set and right now I am enjoying what they are doing. I will post a review if I do not like them. But this set is immensely better then the H&M set in both sculpt and paint and if this is any indication of a trend I am looking forward to the next set.

Thanks

Back in the days of DDM the only price complaints I heard were tied in with the random minis complaint. Lets face it DDM was horrible for randomness I easily bought 4-5 cases depending on set to get every mini. At least Pathfinder Battles they are making a concerted effort to make sure I get every mini in one case. It's an elegant middle ground IMHO making the cases that way, and then releasing the non random minis packs as well as having the singles widely available online. So frankly I would much rather spend $500 on a 93% completion chance than have to go to my FLGS and buy case after case of lesser quality DDMs with a no chance in hell of completing the set in 1 case.

Back in the days of DDM the only price complaints I heard were tied in with the random minis complaint. Lets face it DDM was horrible for randomness I easily bought 4-5 cases depending on set to get every mini. At least Pathfinder Battles they are making a concerted effort to make sure I get every mini in one case. It's an elegant middle ground IMHO making the cases that way, and then releasing the non random minis packs as well as having the singles widely available online. So frankly I would much rather spend $500 on a 93% completion chance than have to go to my FLGS and buy case after case of lesser quality DDMs with a no chance in hell of completing the set in 1 case.

I agree with most of what you said but one statement.

The above is bolded by myself. There was alot of complaints on their forums at the time. Having worked for WotC through their web site in the chat site associated with them at the time. There was a lot of complaints on price there. Not that it matters much now other then price was an issue with it too.

Other then the one statement I agree with the rest. I too like the chance to be able to get a full set from one case with this set and the last H&M set. Having bought many cases for the DDM for WotC and not to this day getting a full set in 3-4 cases... would rather by from Pathfinder Minis then the WotC ones.

It did get me to thinking though. On a case such as this with RotRL, I wonder how difficult it would have been to sell people a guaranteed case of miniatures (1 of every rare, 4 goblin wardog riders etc).

I'm sure if it were cost effective they'd have tried, but still curious if it's even in the realm of possibility on something this large.

So if you double the amount of minis you get Small/Medium and Larges you will be paying the same price per mini that you were for the H&M set. With the H&M set you got 64 small/Medium's and 16 larges. With this set.. that will double. So you are getting 128 Small/Mediums and 34 larges. Add the Huge minis to that mix and you are coming out at almost the same price point as you were with the H&M set.

Just for clarity, a case is 128 figures including the large figures (32 larges and 96 small/mediums).

Deanoth wrote:

So if you double the amount of minis you get Small/Medium and Larges you will be paying the same price per mini that you were for the H&M set. With the H&M set you got 64 small/Medium's and 16 larges. With this set.. that will double. So you are getting 128 Small/Mediums and 34 larges. Add the Huge minis to that mix and you are coming out at almost the same price point as you were with the H&M set.

Just for clarity, a case is 128 figures including the large figures (32 larges and 96 small/mediums).

You are right of course my math was off as I carrying on a conversation at the same time hehe. No worries You right :)

Thanks for correcting me!! :)

I just have to hope that going forward they offer a mix of prices and set sizes. I think at this size and price three tunes a year myself and a lot of others would have to skip some sets :/

As I understand things, Wizkids and Paizo are trying lots of things over the first few releases and seeing what works. I doubt this structure of packaging is some kind of new policy, merely the next phase of testing the market.

It did get me to thinking though. On a case such as this with RotRL, I wonder how difficult it would have been to sell people a guaranteed case of miniatures (1 of every rare, 4 goblin wardog riders etc).

I'm sure if it were cost effective they'd have tried, but still curious if it's even in the realm of possibility on something this large.

WizKids won't ever "guarantee" completeness when it comes to random distribution, as there's a human element involved. With Heroes & Monsters, though, we encouraged them to set a target approaching 100% completion, even if they couldn't guarantee it.

We pushed for the same with this set, but the attaining a completion target of close to 100% would have required them to include several more boosters in each case, and the case cost would therefore have been that much higher. As it is, about 93% of cases should have a complete set, and most of the rest should only be short one figure; for the 7% of you that end up needing to pick up a figure on the secondary market, hopefully you can take consolation in the fact that that one mini will likely cost you a lot less than the additional boosters would have.

93% is an amazing number of cases on that, thanks for the update. I'll keep my fingers crossed... I've always done well on rolling percentile in Palladium that counts for something, right? ;p

Aarontendo wrote:

It did get me to thinking though. On a case such as this with RotRL, I wonder how difficult it would have been to sell people a guaranteed case of miniatures (1 of every rare, 4 goblin wardog riders etc).

I'm sure if it were cost effective they'd have tried, but still curious if it's even in the realm of possibility on something this large.

WizKids won't ever "guarantee" completeness when it comes to random distribution, as there's a human element involved. With Heroes & Monsters, though, we encouraged them to set a target approaching 100% completion, even if they couldn't guarantee it.

We pushed for the same with this set, but the attaining a completion target of close to 100% would have required them to include several more boosters in each case, and the case cost would therefore have been that much higher. As it is, about 93% of cases should have a complete set, and most of the rest should only be short one figure; for the 7% of you that end up needing to pick up a figure on the secondary market, hopefully you can take consolation in the fact that that one mini will likely cost you a lot less than the additional boosters would have.

For the two options I prefer the 30-40 figure sets over the larger sets like Runelords. I thought Heroes & Monsters was a great set and had pretty much decided to get a case of the next one, but the 60 figure set just represents a bit more than I'm prepared to pay in one go. I'll still pick up a few boosters I think, but I can't see me trying to actually complete the larger set.

I'm really impressed with the miniatures either way though. I've never really gotten into pre-painted miniatures before, but have really enjoyed these.

I've been in sales my whole life. I know, for a fact, you can't give everyone what they want every time. As far as I am concerned Paizo has a great approval rating. I'd like to nominate them to rule a country. Any wars will be decided with a die roll. I still love how the cases are and hope they don't change a thing. It's like shaving your sideburns, take some from here and you gotta take a little more from there, next thing you know you got nothing left. I think it's good the way it is. I promise to say nothing more about the size or price of the cases.

Here, here. The fact we are getting quality minis, with variety is all that matters to me. I am sure attempts are made to keep prices down, and distributions good. So I will just keep supportimg the sets as they come out. With the obvious inclusion of a frogemoth, huge water elemental and tendriculous in the next set - surely got to be time foe these

Just looking at the Kourzag. Does the statue have black hair? Can't wait to see it in the blog. It looks good but will go to super awesome status if it is drybrushed/shaded and has a crazing pattern on the stonework.

On a side note can anyone at paizo tell me does the drybrush/wash add a lot to production costs? I just recently bought some of the new colossals for heroclix, they look really good but again there is no shading on them. At that scale it really stands out! The lack of a flesh was on the lamia and giant would just add that depth to the mini.

I am not sure about the cost per se for doing it to that many minis but I know a one on one basis, doing a flesh wash or a little dry brushing here or there is not to difficult and look decent enough on these minis :)

I am in the process of repainting one of the gnomes I have :)

On a side note can anyone at paizo tell me does the drybrush/wash add a lot to production costs?

It's not negligible, which is why WizKids doesn't just do it on everything.

I ask because I am totally ignorant as to how they actually paint the minis. I can't believe a person paints each one individually - I imagine it must be automated somehow? For this reason I expected the wash to basically be another step - so naturally more expensive. As far as I know wizkids don't do it for any minis. Actually woudl be very interested in anyone there can shed any light on how the minis are painted?

Enlight_Bystand wrote:

For those wondering about a smaller case without a guaruntee of getting the entire set; isn't that what in effect a Brick is?

Not really, considering the artificial randomness of the distribution.

Since humans are actively involved in an attempt at even distribution of minis in case quantities, I would bet that the odds of buying a brick from two separate cases could result in a far higher chance of dupes than in a true randomization.

Even though the packs are blind, they're not truly random-packed.

I had great success with the last set. Went to my local store and asked for them to open a new case and sell me 2 bricks from the same case. Was only short a few minis for a complete set so no probs there.

Yup, but that's from the same case. That would be expected, based on the current distribution.

I just can't wait to see those minis. Unfortunately we are allready in AP5 Sins of the savior and I hope that by august we will have jumped into AP6 (we are not very fast as we all have our own schedules and it's not easy to play together).

Anyhow I just can't wait to know what are the figs inside.

I may also buy it just as a collection and will probably use them for other scenarii.

When can we have a chance to have more photos and know what is going to be inside.

BTW: 60 minis or 40 is not so much of an issue as I believe that U need that many to represent a WHOLE AP.
Although i understand this is a steep price for a lot of people.

Anyhow I just can't wait to know what are the figs inside.

When can we have a chance to have more photos and know what is going to be inside.

We know all but 24, and have pictures of a little over 1/2

I ask because I am totally ignorant as to how they actually paint the minis. I can't believe a person paints each one individually - I imagine it must be automated somehow? For this reason I expected the wash to basically be another step - so naturally more expensive. As far as I know wizkids don't do it for any minis. Actually woudl be very interested in anyone there can shed any light on how the minis are painted?

In a mass production environment, each paint step is usually applied by a different person, who does nothing but that paint step for that one mini design for a while. So if there are a dozen paint steps on a mini, a dozen people will have to handle it.

Many paint steps are done freehand. In some cases, painters can pick up three or four minis at a time, placing one between each pair of fingers or their left hand, and then they'll paint their step on each of the minis in just a few seconds, and then they'll move on to the next batch. If they need to turn the mini while they're painting, though, they'll usually need to handle them one at a time.

Depending on the level of accuracy needed and the surrounding paint details, some steps are done with masks—basically, the figure goes into a sort of template that has a cutout specifically made for that one paint step.

There are also tampos, which are kind of like a three-dimensional rubber stamp; these are used for fine designs like patterns on clothing.

WizKids does do washes; there are some in Heroes & Monsters.

WizKids also does an additional step that many other manufacturers don't do: after all of the intended steps have been applied, each individual mini is examined by a master painter who does touch ups to correct any problems they might find.

incredibly detailed and awesome things

Thanks for the details and explanations here Vic. Yet another reason to love you all. You know these cool things *AND* take that time to explain them to us.

Especially on minis. :)

Interesting look into Mini Production

Damn... This sounds like it would take a lot of people, and a lot of Cheap labor...

I always assumed this was done in a automated process.

It is mind boggling the amount of people it would take to do something like this in the short amount of time it is done in.

I could not imagine something like this able to be done in the states, the labor cost would make it unfeasible in my non expert opinion.

Now I see why stuff like this gets more expensive, that Cheap labor cost is not that cheap anymore as these countries that have the infrastructure to do stuff like this are finally starting to see some headway in labor rights.

Sooner or later they will have to go to a more automated process, in my in no way expert opinion.

Sooner or later they will have to go to a more automated process, in my in no way expert opinion.

Or we can generically breed Halflings as slaves, their dexterous hands and keen eyes would be an asset in this instance. Just saying.

We would have to feed the little buggers though ... But my thoughts on the validity and practicality of Soylent Green are for another thread.

at the present exchange rate of 43 to 1, buying the case bundle translates to something like 23K for me sans shipping charges.

must have hahaha

Maybe when 3D printers get better or we finally get replicators - the costs will drop substantially... :)

Interesting stuff ending in... examined by a master painter who does touch ups to correct any problems they might find.

Thank you Viv. That is quite a remarkable process - sort of adds a level of understanding regarding design and cost. I realise they've done washes for pathfinder - just never seen one in heroclix,even on teh colossals. I am really impressed someone touches them up, that alone must be a fairly expensive step. Just reaffirms the great job being done by paizo and wizkidson this mini line, I really hope the standard continues or, even gets better (I can be optomistic sometimes, despite what my friends say). Thank you Vic.

at the present exchange rate of 43 to 1, buying the case bundle translates to something like 23K for me sans shipping charges.

must have hahaha

Pare, mas mahal ata ito kaysa magpa binyag!

Thank you Viv.

And I support whatever changes Vic has decided to undertake :P

Radavel wrote:

at the present exchange rate of 43 to 1, buying the case bundle translates to something like 23K for me sans shipping charges.

must have hahaha

Pare, mas mahal ata ito kaysa magpa binyag!

oo, pero tingin ko mas mahal kung bilhin ko siya rito sa pinas ng retail :-)

Looks like Eric had dropped another name for the set.

Damn... This sounds like it would take a lot of people, and a lot of Cheap labor...

I always assumed this was done in a automated process.

It is mind boggling the amount of people it would take to do something like this in the short amount of time it is done in.

I could not imagine something like this able to be done in the states, the labor cost would make it unfeasible in my non expert opinion.

Now I see why stuff like this gets more expensive, that Cheap labor cost is not that cheap anymore as these countries that have the infrastructure to do stuff like this are finally starting to see some headway in labor rights.

Sooner or later they will have to go to a more automated process, in my in no way expert opinion.

Well, in an attempt to avoid an "ethics" discussion, I should advise that labour is still very cheap in China and I'm not even factoring in the child labour element. As for labour rights in China... well I would have to defer to someone who has lived there recently, but I'm fairly certain that this is still not a significant factor in China. To my understanding, the biggest cost that affects mini's pricing is oil. The plastic they are made from is a by-product of the refinement process.