Has anyone purchased this product yet? I'm eager to try out epic rules for PF but I have no experience with Red Goblin games. Its not a bad price, so I'd be willing to buy it if there was a good review.

I'm curious as well. I looked at the free preview version, and I have to admit that I was very hesitant to buy it after looking at what I saw. There were a LOT of things I questioned. Namely the BAB allowing 5 or 6 attacks each round instead of just leaving it at 4. This throws me off because it looks like a PC with only class levels gets more attacks than a Solar with BAB 22 gets, and that's just wrong. Or how continuing going up your level (ex. Barbarian to Legendary Barbarian) in epic actually goes up as if you were taking a new base class, as opposed to continuing a progression like that of a prestige class (ie. saves are +2 instead of +1). It kind of goes against what the Core book said you should do.

The wealth and the xp required for the next level are nice though.

To LRGG: Under "Memorable Performance", Perform is spelled incorrectly (Preform).

While I understand that LRGG has a policy regarding the guarantee that if we don't love it, we can get our money back, I don't like the idea of being "that guy" who does that.

I just found the preview on RPG Drivethru. Those same things bothered me as well. The extra two attacks are rarely ever going to hit at that level and just serve to slow down combat (something thats already bad at epic). And as you said, breaking from the iterative attack pattern just doesn't seem right unless you retroactively add it to high HD monsters, which again slows down combat for attacks that don't hit.

Although its not a deal breaker, the whole "legendary class is a prestige class thing" does add an necessary level of complication that doesn't really serve a purpose. It seems like it would be easier to just keep calling the class "Barbarian" and continue where the Core Rules leave off.

I noticed the part where it allows you to qualify for the legendary class if you have 5 or fewer levels in a "related" prestige class, but what constitutes "related" is sort of vague. The Rogue/Assassin example seems obvious, but there are plenty of other combinations that aren't as clear.

I noticed a few minor mistakes (spelling, some words weren't bolded) but I've come to accept a certain amount of that as long as it doesn't cause confusion.

Still, if I end up with $10 burning a hole in my pocket I may mine it for ideas on class features (unless it gets a really bad review).

Dotting this for further interest/consideration. Hmm.

Well, this is tempting but it would just be filler until the official PFRPG epic rules, which may be completely different once they show up (if they show up, I know many devs have said they want to do it).

Anywho, I did see this guarantee from LRGG on the DriveThru RPG page for this release:

"*Refund Guarantee! If you don't like our product, you don't have to pay for it! We offer a complete 100% satisfaction guarantee that you will enjoy our products! If not, please tell us how we can make them better for you!"

So maybe that answers it about the $10.

"*Refund Guarantee! If you don't like our product, you don't have to pay for it! We offer a complete 100% satisfaction guarantee that you will enjoy our products! If not, please tell us how we can make them better for you!"

So maybe that answers it about the $10.

I noticed that, and mentioned it in my last post, adding that I'd rather not be "that guy" who buys it, and then wants his money back, and ends up with a free pdf. Especially at this point when I'm more than a little skeptical about it. Unfortunately, I can already give a list of things that would make it better.

Don't get me wrong. I like the idea of getting more attacks, but that game's called Arcana Evolved, and your BAB goes up to 25. However, the monsters also get that bonus attack.

I went ahead and purchased the PDF (because I'm easy like that) and posted my review. This is just based on what I saw in the first 30 minutes of reading and skimming, so it could change after I have more time with it. I've barely looked at the feats and spells yet.

I just want to apologize if I sound overly critical in the review. I can tell a lot of work was put into this and I know its not easy being the first publisher (that I've seen) to take a whack at epic PF rules. High level play is near and dear to mine heart, and I can be pretty picky.

While there was a lot I wasn't too keen on, there are also a lot of things I liked. The deity rules are nice and simple and I wouldn't mind seeing Red Goblin release products expanding on that in the future. LRG also made an excellent decision in dropping the old epic spell system and giving casters a normal spell progression up to 12th level.

As I noted in my review, if the LRG could comb through it once more and fix the errors, I'd probably give it 3.5 or 4 stars. At the very least, its a useful resource for anyone aiming to play epic PF, even if they don't necessarily use everything presented therein.

To LRGG: Under "Memorable Performance", Perform is spelled incorrectly (Preform).

Little red is using the correct word in that context. To Preform something is to form it into a shape resembling the final, desired one. Where as a performance is to give a rendition of something.

kevin_video wrote:

To LRGG: Under "Memorable Performance", Perform is spelled incorrectly (Preform).

Little red is using the correct word in that context. To Preform something is to form it into a shape resembling the final, desired one. Where as a performance is to give a rendition of something.

No it's not, because the skill is spelled "Perform". I say that because Linguistics and Ride are also listed.

Dotted.

Robot_nachos wrote:

kevin_video wrote:

To LRGG: Under "Memorable Performance", Perform is spelled incorrectly (Preform).

Little red is using the correct word in that context. To Preform something is to form it into a shape resembling the final, desired one. Where as a performance is to give a rendition of something.

No it's not, because the skill is spelled "Perform". I say that because Linguistics and Ride are also listed.

Oh, I apologize I thought that you where referring to the memorable performance aspect of the skill and not the skill under which it fell.

Hmmm...as much as I desperately want level 21 rules for Pathfinder, I'm hesitant to buy this based on two specific sticking points:

1. More iterative attacks. They should have been left at four max. Add an 'epic' attack bonus at certain levels based on which class we're talking about and leave BAB alone.

2. No higher level spell slots for classes with 4 or 6 spell levels. There are simply too many good partial casting classes (imo) to leave them without higher level spells at level 21-30. Yes, I know that it would be a significant amount of effort to create spell lists for inquisitors, alchemists, bards, rangers, etc. etc. for higher spell levels than they can achieve pre level 21, but I feel strongly enough about this one that it's a deal breaker for me.

Yes, I could house rule both of the above items, but I would rather wait until a set of rules comes along that is more in line with my own design philosophies than to need to hack and saw at these rules until I can live with them.

Thank you!!

Hello all.

I would just like to say that we can still make active corrections and errata to this product. This is our policy towards our products, and included will be a notice when the product is updated. We will be posting a version with corrected errata soon. But, I am against making people wait, so I shall be giving you some hard errata now.

First off, the sorcerer's spells known are incorrect: 10th level spells or higher, called true dweomers, can only be learned through gaining the associated feat. This means that the 10th-12th level spells known chart (Chart 14-2) should be in Chart 14-3; The Legendary Sorcerer's Spells per Day.

The change to BAB was not noted in our rules chapter, thank you for the correction. Any creature with a BAB of above 20 may make additional attacks as illustrated in Chart 4-3 on page 10.

It was found to be more advantageous for very high BAB characters such as legendary fighters and barbarians to get even these smaller attacks. I encourage you to play for yourselves and utilize the full advantages that these rules provide. In addition, for creatures with multiple weapons, unless they have additional feats for multi-weapon fighting they gain the same number of attacks. It did not make things much slower, and if the attacks are as low as you say, only a quick roll to check for a natural 20 should be needed. And if you still don't like that idea, I suggest you choose not to roll them, and take a look at the Legendary Vital Strike feat on page 50. That feat lets you really dish out some heavy damage with a single attack.

On page 12, the barbarian's rage powers should be italicized, not bolded. Berserker charge should be indented as well.

The legendary druid's epic wild shape class feature on page 20 will be having its name changed to legendary wild shape for future releases. In addition, change the 6th level ability description as follows: "When they turn into a dragon, wild shape can now function..."

Chart 13-1 on page 29 refers to an "ack of all trades" which should be "jack of all trades", and the names of the rogue talents should be italicized, not bolded. Assassin's knife should refer to the "legendary sneak attack" class feature.

On page 33 the legendary wizard should have the following ability: "High Magic: A legendary wizard of 2nd level gains High Magic (See page 48) as a bonus feat."

The feats section will also be getting a revamp. These corrections will mainly be with the formatting and grammar.

Thanks very much for the timely response, Madcap!

Are there any plans to do a print run of this? I'm definitely interested, and it certainly seems to have a few good ideas, but also sounds like it still needs some work. I'll be keeping an eye on this in the meantime anyway.

Hay guys, Red here!
We WILL be doing errata this week and an update to the PDF as soon as our graphic designer tosses me the core file (hopefully sometime this week). We can't thank you guys enough for all your support and feedback on this product! We have plans in the future for releases that will cover the material presented in Paizo's amazing Advanced Player's Guide, Ultimate Magic/Combat, and beyond.

We kind of burnt ourselves out on Legendary Levels so our next few releases will not be Legendary levels related. We had to move some of our upcoming releases back to dedicate more work to release legendary levels on schedule. I don't want to spoil anything but we have a LOT of very cool content planned/already written for our next Legendary Levels supplemental books.

In answers to Peanuts question:
We might actually consider doing a print run for this product. We've been waiting for a product to get this kind of response before we decided something warranted an actual hard copy version. We have a few things to look at before we make the yay/nay decision on it though.

A note hybrid caster classes’ spell progression:
The choice to cap hybrid spellcasting classes was a choice based not entirely on the fact that they would require an extensive new spells list. During our playtests they got a little more difficult to play. Without the total dedication of a full spellcasting class they simply didn't measure up. No matter what we added/took away it wasn't the spellcasting that was really shinning. In one of our future releases we do plan on including an alternate for those hybrid classes that would allow for further spellcasting progression at the expense of some other class features.

A note on archytypes:
We would have loved to dedicate a few weeks to simply produce legendary content for all the of the various archetypes- but it's not an option we can consider at this time with our development schedule*. I'd encourage GMs or any studio to develop content for these! If you do end up working on something, we'd LOVE to see it! (Also, somehow part of the OGL got cut off on our final version- rest assured we will be updating that to include the entire document. Go ahead and develop for it all you want!)

A note on "related prestigious classes":
This will be in the errata in greater detail but for the purposes of qualifying for a legendary class we were vague about what "20 levels in the base class or 15 with 5 levels in a related prestige class" meant. Part of that was us leaving it up to the GM's discretion on a case by case basis. I would recommend approving any prestige class that continues the progression of one or more of the class features, causes some element of the class features to stack, or continues the progression of caster levels.
Examples:
Rogue: Assassin, Arcane Trickster, Shadow Dancer
Wizard: Mystic Theurge, Arcane Archer, Eldritch Knight, Loremaster

Anyway, I just wanted to pop in and thank everyone for their support and feedback!

Happy gaming!

*Fun fact: Did you know Little Red actually also produces casual/mobile games? The gaming tools on our website were actually created by one of our programmers when he had a little time between projects! :D

Excellent news! For me PDFs just aint quite the same as hard-copy stuff. Kinda a pain for me to read large amounts of text from a monitorso would love something physical.

Will keep on watching this. May eventually get impatient and just buy the PDF though, been considering going Epic/Legendary for a while. :P

We updated our errata. You should all be able to download it as soon as Paizo gives their approval.

I purchased Legendary Levels and look forward to reading/digesting it. I have never seen nor read any epic level content for any game system. Looking forward to it, also first product from Little Red Goblin Games, I have acquired. Hopefully, will lead to more products.

Cheers,
James

Awesome! Please let us know what you think!

Greetings,

Little Red Goblin Games - Thank you for producing this product and please do continue to develop epic level game support for Pathfinder. This is a sorely needed line of game aids.

Years ago, I played a fair bit with ELH 3.0 and also used some of the Dicefreaks resources as well.

I have some initial thoughts and questions:

Divinity Scores: I'm not sure that I understand divinity score progression. A legendary fighter doesn't gain DS as a class ability but rangers, paladins, clerics, sorcerers, wizards do? Why is that? Isn't this unbalancing? Personally, I don't see why a wizard or a ranger is more likely to progress in divine power than fighter. I'm thinking that a Hercules, Perseus, or Beowulf are as likely to develop as godlike powers as is a Merlin type character.

The DS table - Chart 1-1 Devout Followers is confusing. If your going it add 10 points of DS to the scores in column 2, why not just use raw scores 11, 12, 13, etc.

I'd prefer to see a clearer relationship between DS in Legendary Levels to the divine scores provided in resources such as Deities and Demigods. When your DS has reached a particular level does that mean your character has become a demigod, or lesser god, etc? If so, I think it would be helpful to state that. If not, I think explaining how the Legendary Levels DS system is a discretely separate system from Deities and Demigods would also be helpful. I'd rather see a clear connection to the old material than the creation of a separate but parallel system.

Did you consider providing divine salient abilities for characters with Divinity Scores?

Followers: How does one gain devout followers? Is there a game mechanic for this that players can pursue or is it strictly an issue of role playing? Including some examples of how a player might progress through this system would be helpful.

Leadership: Is there any relationship to devout followers and the Leadership feat? What happens to characters with the Leadership Feat at legendary levels? Do these character gain more advanced cohorts and additional followers?

Legendary Items: When is a magical item Legendary compared to a non-legendary yet powerful item? Does the gp value of the item matter or is it caster level that matters or is there another criteria? Some additional content regarding the creation of Legendary Items would be helpful. In my epic play experience, a large portion of player character power is in their equipment, and I think this section merits additional attention.

Legendary Damage: "L-Damage" strikes me as an awkward abbreviation. It's nearly as much of a mouthful as the full expression.

Again, thanks for your efforts working on this material. I recognize the risks and challenges in designing for epic play so I applaud your work.

Cheers!

Hay Summerstar, let’s see what I can answer for you!
Divinity Scores: I'm not sure that…
-Divine spellcasters gain more divinity score as they progress (as indicated on each class’s tables). Wizards and Sorcerers do not. Hybrid casters (like Rangers & Paladins) gain it at a slower level than full casters and no caster gains it as quickly as the Avatar prestige class!
Alternately a character can gain a higher divinity score by gaining more followers (after they have a DS of 5) or by taking feats (there are two that grant additional divinity score).
The DS table…
-We did not add 10 to it because it can be used by NPCs as well. Some creatures have +10 while others may not. Some NPCs just have it listed on their profiles.
Deities and Demigods
-We tried to distance ourselves from previous epic level rulesets. With this new edition we wanted to create (as you said) a separate system from their divinity rules. I actually fielded an e-mail question that was similar to this last week. Deities and Demigods was an excellent source book and I personally love the work of love Skip Williams. In 3.5 They detailed a lot of historical pantheons and we wanted to paint with a broader brush than they did. I would absolutely LOVE to delve into the various deities of cultures and stat them up! We will see if the production schedule in the spring has some wiggle room for something more on this subject.
Also, it should be noted that the Bestiary 3 (just released by the folks at Paizo) includes some deities or deity related creatures. (Including the Kami, Oni, Odin’s Horse Sleipnir, and many others!) Check it out!
Divine Salient Abilities…
-In future works we may consider adding feats and/or classes that augment a character’s power at a deity. Maybe not in the same way that they made them, but something similar is a possibility.
How does one gain devout followers?
-I believe the section titled “Followers” has the information you are looking for.
The Leadership Feat
-Leadership is a separate feat and does not directly (“mechanically”) influence the number of followers you have. I could see a correlation in certain instances and (at the GMs discretion of course) you may be able to convert cohorts to followers.
Legendary Items
-I’ll let Madcap field the magic item question for you directly, but I can tell you that we do have plans to expand legendary magic items in the future.

Thanks for the support! We couldn’t have done it without the support of the community and people like you! If you find any other questions or feel like you need more info on anything we printed don’t feel shy to either post here or send me an email (scottgladstein@littleredgoblingames.com).

Happy gaming!

Hay Summerstar, let’s see what I can answer for you!

Thanks for your thoughtful response. Cheers!

Legendary Items: When is a magical item Legendary compared to a non-legendary yet powerful item? Does the gp value of the item matter or is it caster level that matters or is there another criteria? Some additional content regarding the creation of Legendary Items would be helpful. In my epic play experience, a large portion of player character power is in their equipment, and I think this section merits additional attention.

A legendary magic item is one with a caster level of 21st or higher. The gp cost of the item is important factor mainly for balance reasons. Legendary items should have a powerful ability suitable for its cost, often one that bends existing rules or has multiple different abilities.

I tried to include items that could be used as measuring sticks, relative to their abilities. The hat of haberdashery is like a legendary version of the core hat of disguise, with a larger bonus on skill checks and a few other abilities that make it legendary, such as the ability to generate permanent clothing. Most other magic items don't make permanent, valuable objects. It also lets you make Disguise checks as a free action. Yet, this item, like the hat of disguise, is considered relatively cheap compared to the other items in the section, even though it reduces a kind of action to a free action. By contrast, combat focused items tend to be quite a bit more costly, as can be seen with the prices of weapons and armor. I encourage anyone making their own legendary magic items to examine the items in the legendary items section closely and measure the strength of your item's abilities against those. If you'd like to ask any questions about specific items, please ask away and I will answer as soon as possible.

The other difference is that with our rules, crafting a legendary magic item has a DC of 25 + the item's Caster Level as opposed to 5 + Caster Level, but also takes less time. This means that yes, it is hard to make legendary magic items (Especially at the entry levels), but it's to compensate for the fact that at a level of play where so much money is in play, saving half the cost on an item can mean much more equipment for the whole party that's still very useful. When playing with such big numbers and halving costs it really starts to make a lot more difference, especially if you start to put that wealth towards more items.

To Little Red Goblin Games:

I really like Legendary levels, but I would love to see the additional base classes' legendary levels.

As for the rules and such, my gaming group and I are looking forward to when the current crop of Pathfinder characters hit LL. We did epic in 3.5 days and while it had some good things (like the two pure casters went to town making epic cleric spells) but melee people always kind of felt a bit left out, so the legendary damage will be an interesting thing to throw into the game.

And finally a question: do you guys have plans to do more legendary stuff? I'd love to see more legendary templates for critters.

Thanks!

Hay DJEternalDarkness!

Our next three releases will not be Legendary Levels related, however after that we will be returning to expand our Legendary Levels content! We are currently writing & playtesting materials for it!

Or development schedule looks something like this for Legendary Levels:
-An "Advanced Players Guide" for Legendary Levels
Includes: Character classes from Paizo's Advanced Players Guide, Ultimate Magic, and Ultimate Combat. It will also include a good deal of other material (like new uses for skills and much much more).

-Magic Book
Includes: A LOT of new spells (arcane & divine), full progression alternate classes for the Legendary base classes (Paladins with higher level spells for example), as well as a slew of new magic items suited for Legendary Levels.

-A Bestiary
Includes: New templates, rules for fighting deities, deity archetypes, and a lot of (non-deity) encounters suited for Legendary Levels.

I can't give you hard release dates, but they ARE in development.

Happy Gaming!

Thanks Red Goblin! I look forward to getting my mitts on these when they are available!!

Hay DJEternalDarkness!

Our next three releases will not be Legendary Levels related, however after that we will be returning to expand our Legendary Levels content! We are currently writing & playtesting materials for it!

Or development schedule looks something like this for Legendary Levels:
-An "Advanced Players Guide" for Legendary Levels
Includes: Character classes from Paizo's Advanced Players Guide, Ultimate Magic, and Ultimate Combat. It will also include a good deal of other material (like new uses for skills and much much more).

-Magic Book
Includes: A LOT of new spells (arcane & divine), full progression alternate classes for the Legendary base classes (Paladins with higher level spells for example), as well as a slew of new magic items suited for Legendary Levels.

-A Bestiary
Includes: New templates, rules for fighting deities, deity archetypes, and a lot of (non-deity) encounters suited for Legendary Levels.

I can't give you hard release dates, but they ARE in development.

Happy Gaming!

NICE! With that kind of awesome upcoming support, you got yourself a sale sir!

Thank you for your support! We we born from the community and we love getting that kind of response!

Hay guys, we just submitted an updated version of Legendary Levels for you guys that reflects the errata. It should be added to your downloads in a few days (once it is reviewed by Paizo).

One question I have about legendary damage, while not an actual problem, is the logic behind it. I was wondering why something like that would be considered a death effect. I was under the impression that legendary damage represents your character hitting something so hard that it just outright destroys it, even creatures like a great red wyrm or the tarrasque. Other creatures that are constructs and undead are just outright immune to this effect. I just thought it was a little odd that legendary damage would work on something like the tarrasque but not creatures like a vampire or a lich, much weaker creatures. It's not even like it'd be a balance issue if it did work on them, really. Getting to really high levels to do this constantly like level 30 is pretty much impossible to begin with due to the insane amount of experience, rightfully so. So I just thought it probably should work.

One question I have about legendary damage, while not an actual problem, is the logic behind it. I was wondering why something like that would be considered a death effect. I was under the impression that legendary damage represents your character hitting something so hard that it just outright destroys it, even creatures like a great red wyrm or the tarrasque. Other creatures that are constructs and undead are just outright immune to this effect. I just thought it was a little odd that legendary damage would work on something like the tarrasque but not creatures like a vampire or a lich, much weaker creatures. It's not even like it'd be a balance issue if it did work on them, really. Getting to really high levels to do this constantly like level 30 is pretty much impossible to begin with due to the insane amount of experience, rightfully so. So I just thought it probably should work.

Not a bad question, good sir. The main idea was to give the non-casting characters some ability to deal with enemies as quickly as the casters. Since L-Damage is tied to a Fortitude save, creature types with low saving throws of that type (such as constructs and undead) of the appropriate CR for a party of level 21+ will usually fail the saving throw against L-Damage, which removes a lot of the challenge when fighting such enemies.

Sauce987654321 wrote:

Not a bad question, good sir. The main idea was to give the non-casting characters some ability to deal with enemies as quickly as the casters. Since L-Damage is tied to a Fortitude save, creature types with low saving throws of that type (such as constructs and undead) of the appropriate CR for a party of level 21+ will usually fail the saving throw against L-Damage, which removes a lot of the challenge when fighting such enemies.

If anything, then maybe just give them a bonus to their fortitude saves then if they are naturally immune to death effects. You got to remember spells like Disintegrate with the maximize spell feat will deal some serious damage to most constructs and undead to begin with. I think legendary damage should be it's own sort of thing, and not just a death spell stuck on a weapon.

Madcap Storm King wrote:

Sauce987654321 wrote:

Not a bad question, good sir. The main idea was to give the non-casting characters some ability to deal with enemies as quickly as the casters. Since L-Damage is tied to a Fortitude save, creature types with low saving throws of that type (such as constructs and undead) of the appropriate CR for a party of level 21+ will usually fail the saving throw against L-Damage, which removes a lot of the challenge when fighting such enemies.

If anything, then maybe just give them a bonus to their fortitude saves then if they are naturally immune to death effects. You got to remember spells like Disintegrate with the maximize spell feat will deal some serious damage to most constructs and undead to begin with. I think legendary damage should be it's own sort of thing, and not just a death spell stuck on a weapon.

Well there are a few differences. Firstly, failing a save against L-Damage reduces a creature to 0 hp, it doesn't necessarily kill them. Creatures below 20 HD who successfully save against L-Damage are still staggered by the attack as well.

We won't be changing the official ruling at this time, but you can certainly rule otherwise in your game. In some cases for an undead or a construct, the Fortitude save may be abnormally low for its CR. I'd recommend taking the existing construct's Fortitude save, doubling it, and adding anywhere from 1/2 to the full Strength modifier. For undead, take the base save (1/3 the creature's HD) and double it to get a similar result. This should help the monsters die just enough, but not all the time.

(As a note: We will be talking more about this in our Legendary Bestiary when it is released -Red)

I have a question regarding sacred spells. Do you need to take a feat to gain access to these spells as with true dweomers or can any legendary cleric of a high enough level cast them?

A feat is only required to be taken for true dweomers, not sacred spells.
-Red

A feat is only required to be taken for true dweomers, not sacred spells.

-Red

Cool. This will make my cleric player very happy: :)

Now on sale through August 12th!

Release date for Legendary Levels 2 is coming up!

Legendary Levels 2 (Aug. 10th)
Legendary Magic Guide (Aug. 28th)
Legendary Bestiary (Sept. 13th)

Any plans to put these resources into Hero Lab files? I would REALLY love to have that as we have gone completely electronic and going back to pen and paper would put a huge strain on gaming.

While you are at it, is there any chance that you can "Pathfinderize" those legendary classes so that their saving throws progress like those of Pathfinder prestige classes?

Any plans to put these resources into Hero Lab files? I would REALLY love to have that as we have gone completely electronic and going back to pen and paper would put a huge strain on gaming.

We'll certainly look into it. We've been wanting to expand what our content is available on for some time. We actually have a copy of Hero Lab ourselves.

While you are at it, is there any chance that you can "Pathfinderize" those legendary classes so that their saving throws progress like those of Pathfinder prestige classes?

There is a distinct chance. Since it is Scott's book, my policy is always to ask him before making any design changes. He's in bed with the flu currently, so I can't give you an exact yes or no at this second. I can say that I believe this was a change we talked about making some time ago. Since Legendary Levels 2 just released, I assure you that our much anticipated errata/update for Legendary Levels is on its way.

-Caleb Aylsworth

In regards to the progression of saves, we actually made a choice to go with the base class save progressions early on. The reason we decided to do this was two fold. #1 We wanted to "reward" players for getting to 21st level and entering that level of power. #2 Right off the bat players can be faced with L-Damage abilities and the extra bonus to their good save can really make or break a fight for them.

It's best to think of a legendary prestige class as a separate monster from a prestige class. Even though they are only 10 levels long, they are much closer in scope to a base class.

If you would like to the charts for level 1-10 for any prestige class can be an acceptable substitute for the saves presented. Please be sure to match up the "good" saves and "bad" saves when doing this if you decide to do this.

Happy gaming!
Scott

Okay, fair enough -- as long as you are conscious of what you are doing and the save progressions were not a simple oversight.

Some more errata:

Legendary Bard/Cleric/Rogue: The BAB columns for these classes incorrectly list multiple attacks. Since there is no way for a character to have levels solely in that class, there is no reason to list the secondary attacks. Every 3/4 BAB class gets this wrong, but every full BAB class gets this right.

Sorcerer spells per day (0 level): This column should be removed, since 0 level spells can be cast at will.

Spell progression charts: Since you can qualify for a legendary class with 15 levels in the original class plus five levels in an associated prestige class, there is a chance that a 1st level member of a legendary spellcasting class will not have reached 20th level spells per day or spells known. I can see multiple ways to handle the problem:

1) Do nothing. The character is legendary, after all -- let his spellcasting jump if necessary.

2) Explicitly require 20 spellcasting levels for these classes. This would require giving explicit requirements for each legendary class.

3) Re-label the level column as 21st, 22nd, etc. for spellcasting levels (as you did with druid animal companions).

I thought I would have more than this -- so good job.

I did find a couple of other things while posting in the Legendary Levels II thread:

THe 3/4 BAB classes incorrectly give bonuses of +4 rather than +3 at level 5.

The ki pool calculation given for the monk appears to be off. Maybe you meant for your example to have a wisdom bonus of +3 instead of +13?

Finally, to support witch's familiars, table 15-2 needs to be extended to 33rd level (unless you want to say that 30th level is a hard limit for familiars).

First of all a great job with the Legendary products, I have been wracking my few remaining brain cells all day trying to decide how to satisfy our group's post 20th level ambitions and this is a damn fine job.

One technical question that I am stuck on is how to achieve >30th CL to create some of the items if players stick to the rules to cap at 20th for the core classes. Even with 10 levels of Legendary this will be unattainable, unless I am missing something (probably!).

I have run beyond 30th level previously and am also curious on the designers' views on how extendable these rules are.

Thanks in advance :)

The Artificer prestige class in Legendary Levels II would be the easiest way to get a caster level of up to 40, since it grants full caster progression and is relatively easy for a 30th level spell caster to qualify for. Just because the spell progression does not go beyond 30th level does not mean that you can't get a higher caster level. Of course, if you set 30th level as the maximum for mortal characters, then by definition items with a caster level higher than 30th can only be made by gods.

The Artificer prestige class in Legendary Levels II would be the easiest way to get a caster level of up to 40, since it grants full caster progression and is relatively easy for a 30th level spell caster to qualify for. Just because the spell progression does not go beyond 30th level does not mean that you can't get a higher caster level. Of course, if you set 30th level as the maximum for mortal characters, then by definition items with a caster level higher than 30th can only be made by gods.

And by extension players, if permitted by the GM, could level any class beyond the technical maximum to extend existing powers like number of rage rounds per day, caster level, bardic performance rounds etc. albeit with no further spell progression below 10th level and no new powers. These would be lower-powered than a new class or legendary classes but if the player so chose then why not I suppose.