Heine Stick |
Seeing as how this is a 64-page book with one goal - providing GMs with enough fodder to start campaigns in the continent Tian Xia - I would honestly have been very disappointed if they'd put in more crunch than they did. The Inner Sea gazetteer was similar, although that was likely for more reasons than just sketching out the Inner Sea. Your mileage may, and obviously does, vary, though. :)
Joseph Wilson |
Seeing as how this is a 64-page book with one goal - providing GMs with enough fodder to start campaigns in the continent Tian Xia - I would honestly have been very disappointed if they'd put in more crunch than they did. The Inner Sea gazetteer was similar, although that was likely for more reasons than just sketching out the Inner Sea. Your mileage may, and obviously does, vary, though. :)
I must agree. Adding more rules content would have taken away from the already tight, 64-pages of space needed for detailing such a large area, which of course, is the goal of this product.
I actually would have been fine with them merely having flavor information about the new races in Tian Xia, and just having ALL of the rules content be in the primer. I am more than happy with the product as is, however. :-)
Ashanderai |
Heine Stick wrote:Seeing as how this is a 64-page book with one goal - providing GMs with enough fodder to start campaigns in the continent Tian Xia - I would honestly have been very disappointed if they'd put in more crunch than they did. The Inner Sea gazetteer was similar, although that was likely for more reasons than just sketching out the Inner Sea. Your mileage may, and obviously does, vary, though. :)I must agree. Adding more rules content would have taken away from the already tight, 64-pages of space needed for detailing such a large area, which of course, is the goal of this product.
I actually would have been fine with them merely having flavor information about the new races in Tian Xia, and just having ALL of the rules content be in the primer. I am more than happy with the product as is, however. :-)
I concur as well. This is easily one of my favorite Paizo books of all time. But then, I have a bias when it comes to Asian-inspired game content like this.
Ashanderai |
Is there something comparable to Tibet (very high elevation, influenced strongly by a neighboring culture (Vudra, perhaps in the setting) a few yeti in the mountains)?
Overall, I am looking forward to this book.
Zi Ha, the "Sacred Land of Reincarnation" and homeland to the Samsarans is an equivalent to Tibet. It is surrounded by several nations, but the two most influential might be Jinin, the "Displaced Elven Nation", and Amanandar, the "Western Empire in the East".
William Ronald |
William Ronald wrote:Zi Ha, the "Sacred Land of Reincarnation" and homeland to the Samsarans is an equivalent to Tibet. It is surrounded by several nations, but the two most influential might be Jinin, the "Displaced Elven Nation", and Amanandar, the "Western Empire in the East".Is there something comparable to Tibet (very high elevation, influenced strongly by a neighboring culture (Vudra, perhaps in the setting) a few yeti in the mountains)?
Overall, I am looking forward to this book.
It sounds interesting. Hmm, I wonder if there is a Shambala or a Shangri-La there. (A mystical lost city that is a great place to visit but might be facing challenges, such as threats from Leng, might be a lot of fun for an adventure.)
Ashanderai |
Ashanderai wrote:It sounds interesting. Hmm, I wonder if there is a Shambala or a Shangri-La there. (A mystical lost city that is a great place to visit but might be facing challenges, such as threats from Leng, might be a lot of fun for an adventure.)William Ronald wrote:Zi Ha, the "Sacred Land of Reincarnation" and homeland to the Samsarans is an equivalent to Tibet. It is surrounded by several nations, but the two most influential might be Jinin, the "Displaced Elven Nation", and Amanandar, the "Western Empire in the East".Is there something comparable to Tibet (very high elevation, influenced strongly by a neighboring culture (Vudra, perhaps in the setting) a few yeti in the mountains)?
Overall, I am looking forward to this book.
There IS a lost city from an ancient empire dealing with an invasion from Leng in the Dragon Empires. It is not in Zi Ha, though.
Evil Midnight Lurker |
Ashanderai wrote:It sounds interesting. Hmm, I wonder if there is a Shambala or a Shangri-La there. (A mystical lost city that is a great place to visit but might be facing challenges, such as threats from Leng, might be a lot of fun for an adventure.)William Ronald wrote:Zi Ha, the "Sacred Land of Reincarnation" and homeland to the Samsarans is an equivalent to Tibet. It is surrounded by several nations, but the two most influential might be Jinin, the "Displaced Elven Nation", and Amanandar, the "Western Empire in the East".Is there something comparable to Tibet (very high elevation, influenced strongly by a neighboring culture (Vudra, perhaps in the setting) a few yeti in the mountains)?
Overall, I am looking forward to this book.
There is a "fake" Shangri-La that's secretly ruled by vampires.
Golden-Esque |
I'm not looking for perfect. I'm looking for an area where the inhabitants shouldn't constantly be watching over their shoulders. The Inner Sea features too many places where bad stuff can spawn that even the supposedly peaceful areas shouldn't rest easy.
It's called 'Adventure Hooks.'
Welcome to Dungeons and Dragons.
SilvercatMoonpaw |
It's called 'Adventure Hooks.'
Welcome to Dungeons and Dragons.
You are being very rude: I know that. It is still useful for me to ask if it exists on the off chance.
Why this tone?
Whatever SilvercatMoonpaw is looking for, it sounds like a boring place for adventurers.
1) That's half the point: you're not supposed to adventure there. You're supposed to relax there and not worry about anything happening.
2) I conceive of it as a blank slate: I find it way too difficult to add new adventure hooks to a place that already has them, and find places with existing adventure hooks never give me precisely the ones I want. I view existing adventure hooks almost like a metaplot.Zaister |
1) Countries that are not supposed to be adventured in are really out of place in an adventure game campaign setting, I would say. Why would I want such a country in my game?
2) Well I guess you will have to make up your own boring world, because what you want is 100 percent opposed to any setting a publisher would want to sell. Maybe you could even sell it and make a fortune off it, since it's probably very unique ("The dullest campaign setting in existence! Nothing ever happens here, guaranteed!"), but somehow I doubt it.
Arnwyn |
Now, now. There are a number of pretty douchey responses to SilvercatMoonpaw.
I do get what he's saying. I know for my players, a couple of 'safe places' simply makes sense to them. If everything is Danger danger! Death! Adventure! Grit! all the time, they just roll their eyes.
So, a mention or two of such places isn't a bad thing. (With that said, such places only need a small mention, and not heavily detailed, IMO.)
[Note that my post is not coming to any conclusions of how much of such things are currently in Paizo's products.]
Mosaic |
On a certain level, I get what he's saying too. Players might want a safe homeland to adventure out from - a Shire, for example. Or a Sendaria, from the Belgariad books. Basically vanilla. It's the rest of the world that is exciting and dangerous. That's how the PC's start out innocent farmboys and farmgirls and discover the wider world. But what often happens, is that when they return later, with their eyes open to the dangers of the world, they realize that their safe little homeland may not have been as quiet and safe as they thought. Their innocent eyes just didn't see the dangers or machinations at higher levels of society. I think that, too, can be achieved in most places in Golarion (okay, maybe not in the Worldwound) - there are quiet little corners of every country, even Cheliax, where being the innkeeper's daughter is mostly the same as being the innkeeper's daughter everywhere else. Maybe a few odd goings on, rumors, but not that much strange or out of the ordinary. Until the day the when the dark stranger shows up... [cue Balgariad, Wheel of Time, Shannara, Hobbit, Treasure Island... they all start the same way].
I've often thought about a campaign world where PC's start out as representatives of a shining empire that has brought peace and justice to most of the known world. Yet, slowly, as they venture out to the territories and colonies, they realize that all is not as they were led to believe. Not all colonial governors are as idealistic as the Queen, not all orcs are savages in need of pacification, etc. When, at some point, they return home to bring these injustices to light, not everyone at home is totally interested either. Whatever, you get the point. There is a place for safe in a campaign world. And safe doesn't have to mean safe forever or as-safe-as-it-seems.
Finally, just remember, it's your world. Mine the books for ideas, ignore the parts you don't like and change the rest to suit your needs. If you feel there's too much conflict, eliminate some of it. Make Taldor or Andora better places than they are written to be.
Gorbacz |
Golden-Esque wrote:It's called 'Adventure Hooks.'
Welcome to Dungeons and Dragons.You are being very rude: I know that. It is still useful for me to ask if it exists on the off chance.
Why this tone?
Zaister wrote:Whatever SilvercatMoonpaw is looking for, it sounds like a boring place for adventurers.1) That's half the point: you're not supposed to adventure there. You're supposed to relax there and not worry about anything happening.
2) I conceive of it as a blank slate: I find it way too difficult to add new adventure hooks to a place that already has them, and find places with existing adventure hooks never give me precisely the ones I want. I view existing adventure hooks almost like a metaplot.
I'm rather touchy as to where my gaming bucks goes, and paying somebody to write about places of no consequence sure as hell is not an option.
And no, I don't care what you guys think/want/think what you want. My wallet, my vote, welcome to capitalism :)
SilvercatMoonpaw |
Why would I want such a country in my game?
Nothing I've said is about you. For one thing you've got those countries coming out the wazoo. I'm the one deprived. Yet I'm not even asking for them, my original question was simply about them. As in their existence or non-existence in this setting.
Maybe you could even sell it and make a fortune off it, since it's probably very unique ("The dullest campaign setting in existence! Nothing ever happens here, guaranteed!"), but somehow I doubt it.
I'd probably give it away for free: something that unique deserves to be had by anyone who wants it irregardless of money.
But what often happens, is that when they return later, with their eyes open to the dangers of the world, they realize that their safe little homeland may not have been as quiet and safe as they thought. Their innocent eyes just didn't see the dangers or machinations at higher levels of society.
That could work, but not if the setting presented those problems as already-existing. See the problem I always find is that I can't make sense of adventure hooks that obviously shouldn't be ignored yet the characters don't know about. I can't achieve that level of compartmentalization without slamming into the realization that it is impossible for me to be my character because I will never know exactly what they know.
I think that, too, can be achieved in most places in Golarion (okay, maybe not in the Worldwound) - there are quiet little corners of every country, even Cheliax, where being the innkeeper's daughter is mostly the same as being the innkeeper's daughter everywhere else. Maybe a few odd goings on, rumors, but not that much strange or out of the ordinary.
If Golarion didn't make the stuff so obvious this would work.
Finally, just remember, it's your world. Mine the books for ideas, ignore the parts you don't like and change the rest to suit your needs. If you feel there's too much conflict, eliminate some of it. Make Taldor or Andora better places than they are written to be.
Why do I keep being told things I already know?
*sigh*
Okay, that's probably unfair. But honestly do you think I would have gotten this far without thinking of that? Thing is I do not need to mine for the ideas Golarion can give, nor any similar setting. The kind of place I ask for where "nothing" happens is something I'm trying to mine for. I just want to make sure I'm digging in the right place before I start.
I'm rather touchy as to where my gaming bucks goes, and paying somebody to write about places of no consequence sure as hell is not an option.
And no, I don't care what you guys think/want/think what you want. My wallet, my vote, welcome to capitalism :)
What prompted this response? I have at no point made a request for Paizo to write one of these places in. And I am only one person: they will not be listening to me unless I attract some allies. So what you want is just as safe as before.
Ashanderai |
Guys, I hate to be a sourpuss, but the sidebar conversation about adventure-hook locations vs. boring/safe locations in a campaign setting is derailing a product thread that started as a discussion of the Dragon Empires - which I was enjoying. Can you please take that conversation elsewhere? Thank you.
SilvercatMoonpaw |
There's absolutely no need to have a product detail a region where nothing exciting ever happens, everyone gets along, and there are no monsters to slay or adventures to be had.
I do if I have no idea what such a place looks like.
You can default ANYWHERE to be like this, as all that involves is not using the existing adventure hooks.
This has already been said. Also, do you think I don't know this? If yes, why?
GeraintElberion |
Ultimately I'm looking for a place that sounds dull: nothing happens there that requires any form of problem-solvers. A place like this is needed for my kind of mind so I can actually conceive that said problem-solvers have a place they can go where they can stop and rest.
Well, this is easy.
Sandpoint.
Of course, in some APs exciting things happen there but those events only happen if you run those APs, unless you run them then they don't happen. If you just use the description of the place in AP1 then what you get is a lovely, 'dull' little town which had some exciting times a while back but has got over them.
Why don't we go down the Hagfish and get some drinks? Not too late though as I promised I'd help out with breakfast at the Turandok Academy before my shift at the glassworks.
We've got steady trade, a few goblins in the woods but they mostly fight each other and help the town by scavenging on our rubbish.
Of course, there are rumours of the Sandpoint Devil but that's just tall stories from farmers who've been staring at nothing but ripening corn for weeks on end.
Last week I wenr fishing, just for a bit of a change...
Ashanderai |
So lets get back on track here :)
So populations! Are there any population sizes listed for cities?
Sorry, I got distracted and forgot to answer this question earlier.
Population numbers range all over the place, but Goka is probably the largest at 300,450. There are several other large cities as well, but I don't think any are that big. There are also numerous smaller cities with populations of just a couple of thousand, but most lie somewhere in between in the tens of thousands. Do you have a question about any particular locations?
Miranda Silva |
Just got my book. It was at my LGS when I was there yesterday when I was there but it was hidden behind the Mythical Monster Revisited book. GRRRRRRRRR.
First look through it is amazing. I wish there were more nations, I feel like 24 is a bit few but I'll reserve final judgment after I finish the book.
I suspect when I start my next Pathfinder game I will have a flurry of Asian inspired characters, not that that's a bad thing.
Vic Wertz Chief Technical Officer |
Guys, I hate to be a sourpuss, but the sidebar conversation about adventure-hook locations vs. boring/safe locations in a campaign setting is derailing a product thread that started as a discussion of the Dragon Empires - which I was enjoying. Can you please take that conversation elsewhere? Thank you.
Yes, please.
Hayato Ken |
What really is a disapointment is the Paizo decision to give the Kitsune some racial feats and whatsoever, but only hint at them and publish them in a different book that comes out about a month later.
Seriously, there should have been at least some of that stuff WITH the Kitsune.
I don´t think its necessary for you guys to pick up the disgusting sales practices of others out there. So far you did great work and people buy your stuff because they like it.
Miranda Silva |
Here are some of my favorite things:
All five new races(well the Tengu aren't quite new but they are updated) are all really interesting. I found the Samsarans and the Wayangs to be my favorite, but I expect the Kitsune to be the real fan favorites.
Of the nations/regions(27 in all), a few surprised me:
A Taldor offshoot(8th Army of Exploration!!! Crazy!!!!)
A communist state (love this, probably the best surprise of the book)
Elven samurai (nuff said)
Info on Taumata and Sarusan (even if it's very little)
Shenmen(move over Ustalav I have a new favorite evil nation)
Catfolk (YES!)
A Post-Apocalyptic Kraken-Ruled Swampland(you though the Sodden Lands had it bad).
Of the new deities, Daikitsu, Lady of Foxes and Lao Shu Po, Old Rat Women are two of my favorite. I want see a conversation with Norgorber and Lao Shu Po!
Evil Midnight Lurker |
I'm curious what you guys think will be the classes needed to run a game in this? Are we probably fine just using the base PF classes (I've got the core and Adv Players Guide myself) or are most of those likely inappropriate?
You'll probably want Ultimate Combat for the samurai and ninja. Aside from those, the only non-core classes mentioned with frequency are oracle and witch.
Dragon78 |
I like everything you mentioned Mike Silva and also the nations ruled by nagas, dragons, and the desert with those "sky people".
There are several islands that are collectively called Minata that have many strange things including the ruins of the civilization of Taumata. Taumata was a civilation of dark skinned people who ruled southern Tian Xia before the Tians even came here. The people of Taumat came from Sarusan original but were wiped out from Tian Xia long ago.
Fleanetha |
Fleanetha wrote:Officially on my to-do list! I anticipate that I should get to this sooner than later.Could I make a plea for the deity and national symbols in this splendid book to be placed in a Community Use Package so we can use them, for instance, on the Pathfinder Wiki?
Many thanks
J
Just seen this so many thanks Chris - an early Christmas present no less.
Cheers
J
Miranda Silva |
Taumata controled parts of southeast Tian Xia and parts of Sarusan. I got the feeling that they the two land masses might have been connected at one point but the nation was destroyed, some say by the gods. All that's left of it are the islands of Minata, which are full of Taumatan ruins.
I totally forgot about the flying city! I love how Mwangi are feared in Tian Xia because they so resemble the "Sky People". I do love how Tian Xia isn't in a vacuum and has ties to the other four continents around them. (To bad they didn't talk about Minkai sailors traveling to Arcadia!)
Miranda Silva |
The book itself is quite good. I just dont like it to spread things that belong together over several different books.
Well I get the feeling that you only need the Primer to do your chargen. They had to mention the new races since they play such an important part of the setting. They really shouldn't have given us any crunch in this book, leaving all that to the Primer. I'm sure they put it in to throw everyone a bone, not to screw us over.
Set |
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Not only is there a LG god with the Darkness and Madness Domains, but there's also a NG god of Magic! Woo!
Indeed, Qi Zhong, god of healing, magic and medicine (domains - good, healing, knowledge, magic, protection) seems very much like a suitable patron for alchemists and internal alchemists.
Sun Wukong, the Monkey King, seems like an even *more* fun version of Cayden Cailean, which seems hard to imagine!
Nalinivati, the naga-goddess (who may or may not have a romantic link to Daikitsu, goddess of kitsune and agriculture), also is fun. A Scalykind goddess who is open to human (and nagaji) followers.
Lao Shu Po and Kofusachi are also inspiring choices. Very cool!
The Nagaji and Wayang seem like fun races. I love that the First World / Plane of Shadow parallel hinted at previously is now a bit more explicit with the Wayang serving as the 'shadow' equivalent of Gnomes.
The Terra Cotta Warrior on p. 30 and the Jorugumo on p. 36 look *awesome.* Nothing like a good picture to sell me on stuff! (Yes, I'm shallow!)
ElyasRavenwood |
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I have for a while been toying with the idea of running a "Judge Dee" type campaign, where the players are all the Lieutenants of Judge Dee, and help him solve crimes, hunt down monsters, uncover political intrigue etc.....
I am thinking of the Judge Dee of the Robert Van Gullik novels.
Where in the dragon empires would be a good place for something like this?
Thanks