Question, if you can answer it, will it be more like Holmes which lead players to AD&D by design? or more like BECMI and stand alone as a game in itself, a more simplified Pathfinder, taking characters to high levels with more releases?

What is "Holmes"?

joethelawyer wrote:

Question, if you can answer it, will it be more like Holmes which lead players to AD&D by design? or more like BECMI and stand alone as a game in itself, a more simplified Pathfinder, taking characters to high levels with more releases?

What is "Holmes"?

Holmes is the "Blue Box" original Basic Set, from the days before "Keep on the Borderlands". It came with the Basic Rulebook, Module B1 ("In Search of the Unknown"), and no dice.... instead, the rulebook had chits that you cut out and pulled out of a cup. It's the set I started with.

EDIT: It had no rules for characters above 3rd, and the module included pre-gens which used AD&D rules in their stats, rather than the accompanying basic rules.

Holmes is the "Blue Box" original Basic Set, ...

Thank you, I know of that box, I've just never heard of it referred to in that way.

As much as I would like a copy of this, please please please do not make it part of an existing subscription.

+1. I really hope that Paizo will throw international subscribers a bone here, as the situation Antony described is even worse in other EU countries (because of higher import taxes). If this were to become part of my subscription, I would easily have to pay something between 150 and 200% of the original purchase price.

Apart from that, while I know Paizo's business model relies heavily on subscriptions, I wonder where the idea came from to include 'beginner' product into existing subscription lines (i.e., sell the beginner set to customers who - in many cases - will own the vast majority of sourcebooks Paizo has published for PF)? This (forgive me for saying so) seems somewhat counterintuitive to me.

Scribbling Rambler wrote:

Holmes is the "Blue Box" original Basic Set, ...

Thank you, I know of that box, I've just never heard of it referred to in that way.

I will confess to needing a Google to confirm :)

What is a 'full-color pawn'?

I suspect they are like the stand ups for Kill Doctor Lucky. Which are also described as pawns.

It seems awfully weird to me to include a beginner's box as part of an ongoing subscription, maybe that is just me, but I wouldnt want a rookie box set. Not really my concern though since I do not have a subscription, but I don't think I'd be happy with it.

It seems awfully weird to me to include a beginner's box as part of an ongoing subscription, maybe that is just me, but I wouldnt want a rookie box set. Not really my concern though since I do not have a subscription, but I don't think I'd be happy with it.

I'm not, for your reasons and because I'm international subscriber too. I'm going to cancel.

That said, I understand why a lot of other folks are happy to receive it.

Remco Sommeling wrote:

It seems awfully weird to me to include a beginner's box as part of an ongoing subscription, maybe that is just me, but I wouldnt want a rookie box set. Not really my concern though since I do not have a subscription, but I don't think I'd be happy with it.

I'm not, for your reasons and because I'm international subscriber too. I'm going to cancel.

That said, I understand why a lot of other folks are happy to receive it.

Likewise. I'll drop is after UC and then pick up again when I can select the book after. But no interest in this, especially giventhe import duties and shipping costs. I might pick it up from the LGS but that would be it. I have to agree that including it in the subscription is not a move from Paizo I'm happy with.

ICv2 now has an article up about 'The Box'.

Zaister wrote:

joethelawyer wrote:

Question, if you can answer it, will it be more like Holmes which lead players to AD&D by design? or more like BECMI and stand alone as a game in itself, a more simplified Pathfinder, taking characters to high levels with more releases?

What is "Holmes"?

Holmes is the "Blue Box" original Basic Set, from the days before "Keep on the Borderlands". It came with the Basic Rulebook, Module B1 ("In Search of the Unknown"), and no dice.... instead, the rulebook had chits that you cut out and pulled out of a cup. It's the set I started with.

OHHHHH. Holmes was the author who created the basic rules based on Gygax's rule set. Sheesh, you'd think someone would mention that. Yeah, I've never heard it called "Holmes" either; I've always heard it called the blue box, and I got one at Toys 'R Us back when it first came out.

EDIT: It had no rules for characters above 3rd, and the module included pre-gens which used AD&D rules in their stats, rather than the accompanying basic rules.

Note that the blue box set DID come with Keep on the Borderlands when I got it, but still had those damnable chits and you had to send away for an (uber crappy) set of polyhedral dice. I still have some of them, but most were lost over the years.

The dice have to come with a little white crayon and we have to color them ourselves! Then I WILL be reliving some golden memories.

Oh, and the corners need to be really really rounded so the things roll forever! Can't forget that.

On a more serious not...

Thanks, guys. Good to see a starter box product for Pathfinder.

Pshaw!

Seriously

What is a 'full-color pawn'?

We likely won't know until after PaizoCon. Not to sound like a broken record (and failing), I'm really really hoping this doesn't mean full-color counters like WoTC is fond of.

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!

It's going to be more than welcome around here!

Note: The younger ones are less able to deal with "second languages". It might be significant if that product goes through the translations that have been covered for Core. (French, Spanish and German I think?)

I really hope that Black-Books édition will do the translation. My 6 year old loves to game with his dad. That would be an awsome gift for him.

I've been having more thoughts about this..how much will it weigh what are going to be the postage costs to the UK...have you guys kept it within the weight limits for normal rate dispatch etc..otherwise I think this will be a no go for those off us on the other side off the pond.

Apart from that, while I know Paizo's business model relies heavily on subscriptions, I wonder where the idea came from to include 'beginner' product into existing subscription lines (i.e., sell the beginner set to customers who - in many cases - will own the vast majority of sourcebooks Paizo has published for PF)? This (forgive me for saying so) seems somewhat counterintuitive to me.

There has been clamoring for it to be included in a subscription in the various speculation threads about what would be in the introductory game. Mainly, I assume, for the free PDFs: if it's not part of a subscription, everyone has to pay for the PDF separately.

I just want to thank Paizo for putting out this product, and I hope this is a big success! It would be great for PFRPG's future, and the future of the industry as a whole, if this can bring a whole new generation into the game.

Okay, seriously, that's a blue dragon on the cover, right?

The good news I know what I am getting my daughter and my nieces and nephew for Christmas.

i hear you there, my daughter has already put it on her handy dandy multi-holiday wishlist. guess i didn't need that blood or plasma (whichever pays more) anyway. cant wait :)

I am really looking forward to the presentation of this set at PaizoCon.

Okay, seriously, that's a blue dragon on the cover, right?

The picture is a bit washed-out on my monitor, but it does seem rather bluish. Which seems odd, given that the set is supposed to contain a Black Dragon, not a blue one.

Mairkurion {tm} wrote:

Okay, seriously, that's a blue dragon on the cover, right?

The picture is a bit washed-out on my monitor, but it does seem rather bluish. Which seems odd, given that the set is supposed to contain a Black Dragon, not a blue one.

Purple is often used for shading of black creatures so that detail can be put on them better. Usually to represent non-direct sunlight. I'm guessing that's what this is, considering the background looks cloudy.

it definatly fits the Black dragon more than the Blu Dragon look on Golarion

It is a black dragon.

-Lisa

Looks good...I'll likely buy it for my kids.

guess i didn't need that blood or plasma (whichever pays more) anyway. cant wait :)

I imagine blood pays more does since plasma is blood without the red blood cells.

Looks good...I'll likely buy it for my kids.

That's how I'm justifying it too.

Yup; it's a black dragon. Even though it's not ALL black (even BLACK isn't actually black when you get down to it for pigments and colors, usually), check out the way its horns work. They're in the black dragon shape, not blue dragon shape.

When we illustrate blue dragons, they generally are of a sky-blue shade, in any case. That, and blue dragons are MUCH more sleek than black dragons.

Compare to the dragon on the cover of the GameMastery Guide to see how the same artist depicts a blue dragon as opposed to a black.

Scribbling Rambler wrote:

Holmes is the "Blue Box" original Basic Set, ...

Thank you, I know of that box, I've just never heard of it referred to in that way.

Me either!

captain yesterday wrote:

guess i didn't need that blood or plasma (whichever pays more) anyway. cant wait :)

I imagine blood pays more does since plasma is blood without the red blood cells.

I can't believe I'm about to admit this, but I'm pretty sure if my memory is correct that plasma pays more - takes longer too.

Ahh, college.

I'll be looking for a chance to donate this to the local library. It's a great way to spur young imaginations!

Kudos to Paizo for A: Keeping the flame lit. B: Savvy marketing! I wish I could buy shares...

I wish I could buy shares...

Interesting thought...

Would anyone at paizo like to give me an answer on my above question regarding the possible weight/size of this product..I'm concerned that postage might cost me more than the box on this one in which case I'll be asking for it not to be sent.

Benicio Del Espada wrote:

I wish I could buy shares...

Interesting thought...

Paizo isn't publicly traded, it's a property of Lisa, Vic and a badger named Joe.

bugleyman wrote:

Benicio Del Espada wrote:

I wish I could buy shares...

Interesting thought...

Paizo isn't publicly traded, it's a property of Lisa, Vic and a badger named Joe.

Not entirely true. We kicked Joe to the curb a little while ago, so it is just Vic and myself now.

-Lisa

Gorbacz wrote:

bugleyman wrote:

Benicio Del Espada wrote:

I wish I could buy shares...

Interesting thought...

Paizo isn't publicly traded, it's a property of Lisa, Vic and a badger named Joe.

Not entirely true. We kicked Joe to the curb a little while ago, so it is just Vic and myself now.

-Lisa

Well, at least that explains why badger weren't in the first Bestiary.

Lisa Stevens wrote:

Gorbacz wrote:

bugleyman wrote:

Benicio Del Espada wrote:

I wish I could buy shares...

Interesting thought...

Paizo isn't publicly traded, it's a property of Lisa, Vic and a badger named Joe.

Not entirely true. We kicked Joe to the curb a little while ago, so it is just Vic and myself now.

-Lisa

Well, at least that explains why badger weren't in the first Bestiary.

The badger must have been in cahoots with a hippogriff, obviously.

Somebody has to say it:
They don't need no stinking badgers!

Not entirely true. We kicked Joe to the curb a little while ago, so it is just Vic and myself now.

-Lisa

So now that you're billionaires, are you going to have your own reality show? Lisa running around firing people would be "must see tv."

Somebody has to say it:

They don't need no stinking badgers!

UHF rocks!

Would anyone at paizo like to give me an answer on my above question regarding the possible weight/size of this product..I'm concerned that postage might cost me more than the box on this one in which case I'll be asking for it not to be sent.

Our current estimate is that the box will weigh right around 3.5 pounds, but until we have actual product samples in our hands, we can't be precise. Until then, we are erring on the high side—that is, if you add it to your cart right now, the estimated shipped weight is over that magical 4-pound international limit, making your only valid shipping option International Priority, which is expensive.

Once we have an actual sample—which will probably be a couple of months—we'll do our best to figure out how to safely package it under that 4 pound limit, which will allow for much cheaper international shipping... but that *may* not be possible.

DM Wellard wrote:

Would anyone at paizo like to give me an answer on my above question regarding the possible weight/size of this product..I'm concerned that postage might cost me more than the box on this one in which case I'll be asking for it not to be sent.

Our current estimate is that the box will weigh right around 3.5 pounds, but until we have actual product samples in our hands, we can't be precise. Until then, we are erring on the high side—that is, if you add it to your cart right now, the estimated shipped weight is over that magical 4-pound international limit, making your only valid shipping option International Priority, which is expensive.

Once we have an actual sample—which will probably be a couple of months—we'll do our best to figure out how to safely package it under that 4 pound limit, which will allow for much cheaper international shipping... but that *may* not be possible.

I love the box, might get mo than one to give away as friends of my son might want to be introduced.

But as international subscriber I would have probably to discontinue my subscription for the box and start afterwards again. It Is above the £18 magic barrier for UK which means VAT and worse - approx. $13 or even $20 for handling fee.

I rather pay extra for a PDFas het it free and pay double to the taxman and courier. In the end that way also probably more money will end with Paizo if I buy the box locally and the PDF direct.

So please think about a way to allow non-US customers to skip the box or even exclude it.

Thod

Werecorpse wrote:

What is a 'full-color pawn'?

I suspect they are like the stand ups for Kill Doctor Lucky. Which are also described as pawns.

If that is the case, that would be awesome.

Yes, please.

Gorbacz wrote:

bugleyman wrote:

Benicio Del Espada wrote:

I wish I could buy shares...

Interesting thought...

Paizo isn't publicly traded, it's a property of Lisa, Vic and a badger named Joe.

Not entirely true. We kicked Joe to the curb a little while ago, so it is just Vic and myself now.

-Lisa

I was forced out by a malicious coup! My Jersey Shore rpg idea would have totally sold out! Where's my lawyer?

I definitely need to hear more before I'll allow myself to get excited. Like I told James at Neon Con, there is a certain approach I am looking for, and so far it doesn't sound like that is what it is going to be. Either way, I am sure this will be great for Paizo and Pathfinder.

If I'm understanding this correctly, the only way to avoid getting this if you're a PFRPG subscriber is to cancel your subscription prior to the release of the product, is that correct? Seems a heavy-handed way to have to deal with it, but I guess I'll do it if I must. Any chance we can get a more detailed long term product schedule so I can cancel as early as possible and still have time to rejoin before missing something I actually want?

....if you're a PFRPG subscriber is to cancel your subscription prior to the release of the product, is that correct? ..... Any chance we can get a more detailed long term product schedule so I can cancel as early as possible and still have time to rejoin before missing something I actually want?

The best thing to do at this point is bookmark the subscription page and keep an eye out for it. As soon as you get Ultimate Combat, cancel your subscription. Then just check that page until Ultimate Diplomacy is announced (j/k), and click on the start subscription button starting with that product, rather than Beginner Box.

I wholeheartedly approve of this venture. I hope that it becomes a gateway into realms of imagination for scores of people, young and old, for years to come.

Paizo isn't publicly traded, it's a property of Lisa, Vic and a badger named Joe.

Not entirely true. We kicked Joe to the curb a little while ago, so it is just Vic and myself now.

-Lisa

Badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger badger