Pathfinder Battles: Heroes & Monsters Large Booster

3.60/5 (based on 47 ratings)

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Pathfinder RPG combat comes to life on your tabletop with Heroes & Monsters, the debut release in the new Pathfinder Battles prepainted miniatures line! Produced in cooperation with Paizo Publishing, Heroes & Monsters presents a fascinating array of 40 beautifully painted miniatures perfect for use with the Pathfinder RPG or any fantasy miniatures game! From the brave Gnome Fighter to the mighty evil lich, Heroes & Monsters offers a wide range of player characters and dungeon denizens that make a perfect start to your Pathfinder Battles collection!

  • Heroes & Monsters Standard Boosters contain 1 Medium or 2 Small miniatures.
  • Heroes & Monsters Large Boosters contain 1 Large miniature.
  • Heroes & Monsters Bricks contain 16 Standard Boosters and 3 Large Boosters.
  • Heroes & Monsters Cases contain 4 Bricks (64 Standard Boosters and 12 Large Boosters).

Purchasers should get no to very few duplicate figures in a brick. Buyers who purchase factory-sealed cases should get a nearly complete set of figures. (As with any randomized product, collation is not guaranteed.)

Begin your Pathfinder Battles collection today! The Heroes & Monsters of the Pathfinder world await!

See the press release for questions and answers about this exciting new product line.


Heroes & Monsters Set List

CommonUncommon
1  Goblin Warrior (Red)
2  Goblin Hero (Red)
3  Goblin Warrior (Blue)
4  Goblin Hero (Blue)
5  Orc Brute
6  Orc Warrior
7  Skeleton
8  Watch Guard
9  Watch Officer
10  Lizardfolk Champion
11  Zombie
12  Giant Spider
13  Wolf
14  Venomous Snake
15  Mummy
16  Human Rogue
17  Human Ranger
18  Elf Wizard
19  Half-Elf Cleric
20  Dwarf Fighter
21  Human Druid
22  Gnome Fighter
23  Dire Rat
Rare
24  Gargoyle
25  Half-Orc Barbarian
26  Spectre
27  Seelah, Human Paladin
28  Werewolf
29  Medusa
30  Minotaur
31  Ogre
32  Troll
33  Ettin
34  Chimera
35  Manticore
36  Giant Caveweaver Spider
37  Frost Giant
38  Succubus
39  Lich
40  Vampire

Additional Product Images


(click to enlarge)
WizKidsHeroesAndMonsters-PFB1 WizKidsHeroesAndMonsters-PFB3 PFB4 WizKidsHeroesAndMonsters-PFB5
Medusa Lich seelah orc
092311_EttinPreview 092311_RangerPreview 093011_GoblinPreview
(go to main product page)

Product Availability

Unavailable

Are there errors or omissions in this product information? Got corrections? Let us know at store@paizo.com.

WZK70483


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Average product rating:

3.60/5 (based on 47 ratings)

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Too Much $$$

2/5

I hate to be a bad mouth, and I am honestly not motivated here by vehemence. This figs just cost way too much for what you get ESPECIALLY because they are random and plastic.

I am not saying there is anything better out there - as far as I can tell there isn't. My local store is 1 of 2 significant stores, in a metro area of around half a million folks. The store I frequent has yet to sell out of the ORIGINAL , the 2nd line has barely sold at all, and he has refused to order anything else. It just doesn't sell. And its not placement - they are quite actually the first and last thing you see when you enter his store.

When I bought DND mini's the price for randoms eventually became to high for me and I was able to still get the minis I wanted by buying singles. So far, everything I have seen indicates the singles market is incredibly over-inflated.

So, quality wise they are top notch. The paint jobs and sculpts are in every way superior to what I have seen anywhere else here in America. There are foreign companies doing comparable work in similar markets, but that is irrelevant to this review.

For me though, the final thing comes down to money. They are too expensive.


Individual figures

2/5

I would be more willing to buy these if one could select individual figures desiered rather than getting a "Grab Bag (box)" of unknowns.


Vibrant, but Overpriced

2/5

I didn't even want to buy any originally because of the price, but I decided to grab 3 small (1 medium or 2 small figures each) and 1 large (1 large figure) boxes. This cost me $19 before taxes and I ended up with 1 large and 3 medium figures. When D&D Miniatures was producing boosters I would pay $15 or $16 before taxes to get 8 figures and I'm pretty sure there was 1 large per booster.

I then placed them side by side with the D&D Miniatures I have and I would say the quality is about the same, but the Pathfinder minis are more vibrant. The D&D minis though each came with a stat card and could be used to play a separate minis tactical game.

Even if I were to get 2 small figures in each of the small boxes of Pathfinder minis I purchased I'd have 7 figures. For $3 or $4 less I would have 1-4 more figures and I never remember seeing a full booster of D&D minis as small figures, maybe half at most.

I really like the Pathfinder RPG books, but I'm sorry, I won't be buying any more minis because I think they're overpriced. Maybe I'm just behind times though because I know the D&D minis are not being produced any more, but I can still buy singles for $1 each for commons and uncommons.


1-2 random for HOW MUCH!

1/5

For random minis, the pricing is obscene. Tack on a buck and let me know what I am Getting. The local store has yet to sell out of the Original Brick. And from what I have seen, the sculpts and painting is so sub-par.
As much as I hate the Paper Minis, I will take those over these in a heartbeat.


Excellent Beginning Run.

5/5

I have just gotten into my box set that I recieved (in no specific order). Individual Review will be added later.

Box 1:

Frost Giant
Ogre
Troll
Skeleton
Venomous Snake
Spectre
Red Goblin Hero
Red Goblin Warrior
Giant Spider
Zombie
Watch Officer
Watch Guard
Dire Rat
Medusa
Half-Elf Cleric
Vampire
Human Rogue
Wolf
Gnome Fighter
Human Ranger
Seelah, Human Paladin

Box 2:

Manticore
Ogre
Troll
Succubus
Human Rogue
Blue Goblin Warrior
Blue Goblin Warrior
Blue Goblin Hero
Blue Goblin Hero
Red Goblin Warrior
Red Goblin Hero
Gnome Fighter
Dire Rat
Skeleton
Human Ranger
Spectre
Seelah, Human Paladin
Lizardfolk Champion
Watch Guard
Medusa
Venomous Snake
Giant Spider
Orc Warrior

Box 3:

Ettin
Minotaur
Chimera
Orc Warrior
Zombie
Giant Spider
Watch Officer
Werewolf
Lizardfolk Champion
Wolf
Mummy
Elf Wizard
Half-Elf Cleric
Blue Goblin Hero
Blue Goblin Warrior
Half-Orc Barbarian
Dwarf Fighter
Lich
Human Druid
Gargoyle

Box 4:

Ettin
Giant Caveweaver Spider
Troll
Spectre
Zombie
Mummy
Elf Wizard
Human Druid
Wolf
Watch Officer
Giant Spider
Medusa
Blue Goblin Warrior
Blue Goblin Hero
Half-Elf Cleric
Skeleton
Werewolf
Venomous Snake
Succubus
Orc Brute

Final Count:

Red Goblin Warrior x2
Red Goblin Hero x2
Blue Goblin Warrior x4
Blue Goblin Hero x4
Orc Brute
Orc Warrior x2
Skeleton x3
Watch Guard x2
Watch Officer x3
Lizardfolk Champion x2
Zombie x3
Giant Spider x4
Wolf x3
Venomous Snake x3
Mummy x2
Human Rogue x2
Human Ranger x2
Elf Wizard x2
Half-Elf Cleric x3
Dwarf Fighter
Human Druid x2
Gnome Fighter x2
Dire Rat x2
Gargoyle
Half-Orc Barbarian
Spectre x3
Seelah, Human Paladin x2
Werewolf x2
Medusa x3
Minotaur
Ogre x2
Troll x3
Ettin x2
Chimera
Manticore
Giant Caveweaver Spider
Frost Giant
Succubus x2
Lich
Vampire

84 Minis, out a minimum 76, and was able to get the full collection. I can safely say that I am over all pleased, though I was hoping for more humanoid opponents, but can't be to grumpy since I did get a full collection, with a few doubles of key members. Add to this the ones Irecieved from random Store Boughts as well as a minion order from this site and the six-man Evil Booster and you have a good assortment of minis to choose from.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Bluenose wrote:
TwoWolves wrote:
Bluenose wrote:
Amazing how so many miniatures companies - including at least one that dwarfs Paizo - manage to sell bucketloads of miniatures without resorting to random packaging. I wonder what they're doing that makes that profitable?

Name them.

If there are "so many", then it won't be hard for you to just. name. them.

Just a few, then:

Old Glory
Wargames Foundry
Eureka Miniatures
Renegade Miniatures
Bolt Action
em4

Now lets add some of the people doing plastics:
Gripping Beast
Wargames Factory
Perry Miniatures
Victrix
Warlord Games

All entirely non-random, all reasonably priced, and all with a wide range.

And none of them are pre-painted.

Scarab Sages

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps Subscriber
Bluenose wrote:
TwoWolves wrote:
Bluenose wrote:
Amazing how so many miniatures companies - including at least one that dwarfs Paizo - manage to sell bucketloads of miniatures without resorting to random packaging. I wonder what they're doing that makes that profitable?

Name them.

If there are "so many", then it won't be hard for you to just. name. them.

Just a few, then:

Old Glory
Wargames Foundry
Eureka Miniatures
Renegade Miniatures
Bolt Action
em4

Now lets add some of the people doing plastics:
Gripping Beast
Wargames Factory
Perry Miniatures
Victrix
Warlord Games

All entirely non-random, all reasonably priced, and all with a wide range.

Seems you are throwing Oranges into my Apples.

So, I starting checking out these companies you talked about here. I am not interested in metal ones that I have to paint at all. Some people like Sean are way into painting and some are not. I do not have the time or the artistic ability to paint well.

So, I looked at Gripping Beast and I do not see any plastics there and if they are they require painting.

Wargames Factory - has plastic minis in sets of 30 for $19.95 but they are also not painted and don't even have bases and it looks like there is other assembly required.

Perry Miniatures appear to be historical wargame minis that again appear to need painting.

Victrix - again historical wargame figures. Both plastic and metal. I am not clear whether the plastic ones are painted or not but the metal ones certainly are not.

Warlord Games - again historical wargame figures that need to be painted.

Being none of these is comparable to what we will receive from Wizkids and Paizo I did not check into the ones mentioned earlier in the post that appear to be companies that do metal.

None of these sets give you the variety of the set proposed here. The reason I like this set is that it comes with a variety of creatures and characters and they are plastic and they are painted. Pricing was not easily figured out from what I saw on most sites and I did not explore enough to figure it out but even if they were cheap I do not want to paint or assembly or put bases on my minis. I want to use them and I will pay for that level of product.

Make Mine Marvel... Oops sorry I lost my head.


Bluenose wrote:

Old Glory

Wargames Foundry
Eureka Miniatures
Renegade Miniatures
Bolt Action
em4

Old Glory: Unpainted metal

Wargames Foundry: unpainted metal (and about $4/medium mini)
Eureka Miniatures: unpainted metal (and most of their fantasy line is 18mm, not 28mm)
Renegade Miniatures: unpainted metal (about $3/unpainted orc)
Bolt Action: unpainted metal and some unpainted plastics
em4: unpainted metal for ~$3, prepainted medium metals for ~$5 each, unpainted plastics

Bluenose wrote:

Now lets add some of the people doing plastics:

Gripping Beast
Wargames Factory
Perry Miniatures
Victrix
Warlord Games

Gripping Beast: unpainted and ~$7 for a medium

Wargames Factory: unpainted
Perry Miniatures: unpainted plastics
Victrix: Do they even make fantasy minis?? unpainted plastics
Warlord Games: same as bolt action above

Bluenose wrote:
All entirely non-random, all reasonably priced, and all with a wide range.

Fantasy apples to Napoleonic oranges. The only PREPAINTED minis I saw were more expensive, and nearly all of the rest were historical wargaming minis, not fantasy. Some had "orcs" or "elves" and even some "zombies", but I didn't see any ogres or frost giants.

Oh, and most were still more expensive per mini, and did I mention NOT PREPAINTED? I guess if you are ok with using austrian riflemen in your fantasy game (and painting them too) you might have an apt comparison. But so far, not so much.


Bluenose wrote:
TwoWolves wrote:
Bluenose wrote:
Amazing how so many miniatures companies - including at least one that dwarfs Paizo - manage to sell bucketloads of miniatures without resorting to random packaging. I wonder what they're doing that makes that profitable?

Name them.

If there are "so many", then it won't be hard for you to just. name. them.

Just a few, then:

Old Glory
Wargames Foundry
Eureka Miniatures
Renegade Miniatures
Bolt Action
em4

Now lets add some of the people doing plastics:
Gripping Beast
Wargames Factory
Perry Miniatures
Victrix
Warlord Games

All entirely non-random, all reasonably priced, and all with a wide range.

Gripping Beast - ~$2/mini, unpainted, single piece

Wargames Factory - ~$0.75/mini, unpainted, unassembled
Perry Miniatures - ~$0.75/mini, unpainted, unassembled
Victrix - ~$0.5/mini, unpainted, single piece (I'm not impressed by the quality)
Warlord Games - ~$0.75/mini, unpainted, unassembled

Now, these companies blow GW prices out of the water for similar producs, but are not comprable to Wizkids' product. Try buying one of these sets pre-painted and see what it will cost you. Also, they all come in packs of 20+, except for the Gripping Beast, which come in packs of 4.

Lantern Lodge

We now have a subscription for Pathfinder Battles Case Subscription! The Heroes and Monsters set is the first set in this subscription line.


Sara Marie wrote:
We now have a subscription for Pathfinder Battles Case Subscription! The Heroes and Monsters set is the first set in this subscription line.

Awesome - a black dragon for $3-75. :)

I notice that my preordered cases haven't left my sidecart. Will that sort itself out prior to shipping or should I be worried I might accidentally get twice as many cases as I I tended?

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Steve Geddes wrote:
Sara Marie wrote:
We now have a subscription for Pathfinder Battles Case Subscription! The Heroes and Monsters set is the first set in this subscription line.

Awesome - a black dragon for $3-75. :)

I notice that my preordered cases haven't left my sidecart. Will that sort itself out prior to shipping or should I be worried I might accidentally get twice as many cases as I I tended?

Technically, we cancelled the corresponding preorders; the ones you're seeing now are the ones attached your subscription.


Vic Wertz wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
Sara Marie wrote:
We now have a subscription for Pathfinder Battles Case Subscription! The Heroes and Monsters set is the first set in this subscription line.

Awesome - a black dragon for $3-75. :)

I notice that my preordered cases haven't left my sidecart. Will that sort itself out prior to shipping or should I be worried I might accidentally get twice as many cases as I I tended?

Technically, we cancelled the corresponding preorders; the ones you're seeing now are the ones attached your subscription.

That's how I thought it would happen. Are you sure it's working though?

Six copies are showing up in my side cart and there's no line through the preorders (which, from memory, is what happened when I cancelled a preorder previously).


Caineach wrote:
Add Paizo to the list of single mini resale sites.

Sadly, unless things have changed since DDM, they seem unlikely to be price-competitive.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Steve Geddes wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
Sara Marie wrote:
We now have a subscription for Pathfinder Battles Case Subscription! The Heroes and Monsters set is the first set in this subscription line.

Awesome - a black dragon for $3-75. :)

I notice that my preordered cases haven't left my sidecart. Will that sort itself out prior to shipping or should I be worried I might accidentally get twice as many cases as I I tended?

Technically, we cancelled the corresponding preorders; the ones you're seeing now are the ones attached your subscription.

That's how I thought it would happen. Are you sure it's working though?

Six copies are showing up in my side cart and there's no line through the preorders (which, from memory, is what happened when I cancelled a preorder previously).

I'm having Ross double-check your sidecart.


Vic Wertz wrote:

I'm having Ross double-check your sidecart.

Thanks, Vic. I appreciate it.


Grey Mage wrote:


As for those who throw down to just check on ebay, *spreads hands* If I wanted to pay 3 dollars in shipping for a fifty cent miniature Id just about be as well off buying the boxes- wich already isnt viable for me.

Ebay can be viable. I guess I'll make much more use the Paizo shop for singles, though. As an AP subscriber, I get 15% off everything, and as a PF Battles Case subscriber, it's 20% instead for PFB singles. And shipping won't be much of an issue, as I can put them into my monthly subscription shipment.

And unless you only want one or two minis, even separate orders (from ebay shops, Paizo, minis shops, whatever) can be viable, as you can combine shipping.

And some (or many) RPG retail stores will also go, buy a number of cases and open them up to sell you singles.

Grand Lodge

Sara Marie wrote:
We now have a subscription for Pathfinder Battles Case Subscription! The Heroes and Monsters set is the first set in this subscription line.

Thanks Sara Marie! Case ordered.

Later,

Mazra

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Steve Geddes wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:

I'm having Ross double-check your sidecart.

Thanks, Vic. I appreciate it.

Steve, i've taken care of your preorders. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.


Soooooo.......

Any more preview pics?

You know what'd be cool......to see the assembly process...

i'm always watching "How its made" on t.v. all the time.

Just saying it'd be cool to see the actual manufacturing process.

From plastic injection molding to painting.

I'm getting off subject.......any more preview pics?

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Cyderak wrote:
I'm getting off subject.......any more preview pics?

Erik has a bunch of stuff he'll be showing off in the Paizo Blog over the next few weeks!

Liberty's Edge

I know this question was answered about 18 minutes ago, but...

Any more preview pics?

Are we there yet?


Ross Byers wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:

I'm having Ross double-check your sidecart.

Thanks, Vic. I appreciate it.
Steve, i've taken care of your preorders. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Cheers. I reckon I can sneak the occasional $700 order past my wife, but if it ever gets to four figures there's going to be lots of comments about 'grown men playing with toy soldiers'.

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

For the time being we plan to release new Pathfinder Battles images every Friday, so it'll be a couple more days, yet.

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC

I'm hoping I'm okay; hard to tell from my subscription page. Looking forward to all the goodness being shipped out over the next 6 months :)

Dark Archive

I looked at the lich and the Medusa and I'm amazed by the quality.

The gnome fighter looks quite .... unexciting.

As I'm a very messy boy, will the case be able to hold the minis after being opened. Or will I need a new box to put all these new figs ?

Dark Archive

Chewbacca wrote:

I looked at the lich and the Medusa and I'm amazed by the quality.

The gnome fighter looks quite .... unexciting.

As I'm a very messy boy, will the case be able to hold the minis after being opened. Or will I need a new box to put all these new figs ?

I know I should have asked before placing my orders but will the AP subscription give me 15% of the case price even if i'm a battle case subscriber ?

EDIT: The FAQ was pretty clear .... dooooh
I'm a Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber. Do I get the Pathfinder Advantage discount on my case? Do I get it on the case premium?
Yes, the Pathfinder Advantage discount applies to Pathfinder Battles products whether you buy them as part of a subscription or not. Because the Pathfinder Advantage discount is always off of our normal list price, though, it does not stack with the Pathfinder Battles subscription discount you're already receiving on the case premium

Dark Archive

Will this be early December or closer to Christmas?

Sczarni

Chris Ballard wrote:
Will this be early December or closer to Christmas?

You'd have to ask on the wizkids forums for this information I think

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Sara Marie wrote:
We now have a subscription for Pathfinder Battles Case Subscription! The Heroes and Monsters set is the first set in this subscription line.

You guys are EVIL. I was gonna stay away from this or more likely get it at my local hobby shop. Now, now... Damn. I like the subscribtion. I like the discount on individual pieces and a Huge Black Dragon! You are just evil.

Sovereign Court

Post 1528 here...

Sorry if this was asked & answered already...

What date do they arrive at FLGS stores?
What date do they ship from PAIZO to those with subscriptions?

*feels a little giddy*

I feel like I did standing in line for the original Star Wars!

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

Chewbacca wrote:


As I'm a very messy boy, will the case be able to hold the minis after being opened. Or will I need a new box to put all these new figs ?

I suspect you're going to want to invest in a new box for these, as the case packaging will actually consist of lots of little boxes shrinkwrapped together.

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

Chris Ballard wrote:
Will this be early December or closer to Christmas?

Too soon to tell. Everyone involved knows that the sooner they come out, the more money they make and the more people get a chance to get them as holiday gifts, but this is a complicated international operation, so we won't know the arrival date for sure for a while yet.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

First off I want to say WOW what a great product. Am definitely looking forward to this. Have one case preordered through FLGS and am a subscriber here for a case + dragon.

Couple of quicks points (hopefully I am remembering all of them after 30+ pages of posts)

1) I would like to see a miniatures game to go with the minis. The product line is Pathfinder Battles after all and another set of customers buying the product doesn't hurt. I know there were lots of people who brought DDM just for use with RPG and many that bought for just the miniatures game. I personaly bought most of mine for use with D&D though I did participate in a few DDM tournaments though these were mostly for prereleases. One thing I would suggest is that any card or such that you develope for the miniatures game also be useful with the RPG. Example are the 3.5 era DDM cards, I used many of them as quick and dirty random encounters as they had all the essential RPG stats on the card as well.

2) I would also like to give my support for seeing commoners or ones that can be easliy substitued in the sets. I run and played in lots of encounters where knowing which were commoners and which were enemies was important. I would suggest no more than one or two per set (depending on total set size) and have them as "uncommons" where you don't end up with bucket loads of them but you have more that one. This also leaves the "rare" slots open for the realy cool figs.

3) To go with the previous point I would also like to see more of the creatures off of the various summoning lists and animals in general as they make great low level encounters. Pre-made encounter sets of Summon 1-9 would be great as well as Familiars and Animal Companions.

4) I remember someone asking up thread for solutions for storing these minis. These are the cases that I and several others in my gaming groups use for general storage. They are configurable for size and quantity and most of the DDM mini's will fit either standing up or lying down, outside of the huge ones and some of the large ones with wings (Balor comes to mind). They also work great for mobile storage as well and you can sort the minis based on encounter 1, encounter 2, etc.(Works great for dming cons)

5) Some one up thread also was looking for a solution for showing pathfinder conditions on the minis (click base was mentioned). As the click base would either oversize beyond the 1" grid or be so small as to be unreadable, I offer these as a suggestion along with their edgemarks. The base markers also work great for height markers, numbers of mirror images, or spell effects (burning sphere, spiritual weapon).

6) One quick question (for Vic, Sara Marie, etc) concerning the subscription to make sure I am understanding how it works (this is my first subscription with paizo). I previously only had the case sitting in my shopping cart and had not yet actually pulled the trigger and pushed through the purchase. Now that I have a Pathfinder Battles Case Subscription do I still need to preorder a case and a black dragon and push them through the shopping cart or will they automatically be shipped to me come the December release date?


KaeYoss wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:


I grew up in New Orleans. 100 degrees and 100% humidity was the norm during many summers.
100% humidity? But that means you're under water!

All that 100% humidity means is that you have hit the dew point. When the condensation is forming on the window, and the grass is wet, your at 100% humidity.

Sorry...

Its a compulsion. I just taught this today in class.

Lantern Lodge

dracomancer wrote:


6) One quick question (for Vic, Sara Marie, etc) concerning the subscription to make sure I am understanding how it works (this is my first subscription with paizo). I previously only had the case sitting in my shopping cart and had not yet actually pulled the trigger and pushed through the purchase. Now that I have a Pathfinder Battles Case Subscription do I still need to preorder a case and a black dragon and push them through the shopping cart or will they automatically be shipped to me come the December release date?

If you are signed up for the subscription you do not need to do anything else. We will automatically generate the order for you. The first item in the subscription when you sign up shows on your My Account page in your sidecart (lower right side). You can also check out your My Subscriptions page to see what we've got coming up for your subscription.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Thanks Sara Marie...:)

Scarab Sages

Lisa Stevens wrote:

For those of you who are disappointed in the random aspect of the miniatures, please read the following taken from the FAQ attached to the press release. You still may not agree, but at least you will understand why we are doing what we are doing.

-Lisa

Q: Why prepainted plastic miniatures in randomized packs?
A: Prepainted plastic miniatures are expensive to make. Sculpting and painting are costly, and making molds for plastic figures is costlier still. To make all these costs work, you need to spread them out over a large number of miniatures. If these figures were released individually, some would sell better than others, and some--or even many--of them would lose money. Randomizing the miniatures ensures that you sell predictable quantities of each figure, and it also allows you to price them reasonably without losing your shirt. Another benefit of averaging out costs over a large number of figures is that it allows you to spend more money on some miniatures--you can make them larger or more detailed, or add more complicated (and thus more expensive) paint operations than you could otherwise justify. In short, selling more of the common minis allows you to spend more money on the rarer figures.

Randomized miniatures also allow you to provide more variety. Not only can you introduce more figures at once, but the fact that you make make some of them rarer than others means you can produce plenty of the figures that everyone needs, like goblins or skeletons, and fewer of the figures that have narrower appeal, like strange monsters or iconic figures.

Another factor to think about is the brick-and-mortar retailer. It's much easier for a retailer to stock single booster packs than individual packaged minis. Our first set, Heroes & Monsters, contains 40 miniatures. Selling them individually would require a lot of retailer effort to keep them all in stock--and it would also require a lot of space to display those miniatures. And if next year's 60-figure Rise of the Runelords set were released as...

This is a great informative post however it forgot one aspect of miniature retailing. The CUSTOMER. If your goal is to sell miniatures to brick and mortar retailers so they can unhappily stare at them on their less packed shelves then this line of reasoning makes sense. However every game shop I have ever been to enough to actually get to know the Vendor, that Vendor has frustratedly complained of how RPG random pack miniatures sit on the shelves, sometimes for years, and how they wish they had never put them there but instead had only sold Warhammer ones.

WE DON'T LIKE RANDOM MINIATURES

We buy them because we need them for our games, but we buy them pissed off at you guys.


Cole Cummings wrote:

This is a great informative post however it forgot one aspect of miniature retailing. The CUSTOMER. If your goal is to sell miniatures to brick and mortar retailers so they can unhappily stare at them on their less packed shelves then this line of reasoning makes sense. However every game shop I have ever been to enough to actually get to know the Vendor, that Vendor has frustratedly complained of how RPG random pack miniatures sit on the shelves, sometimes for years, and how they wish they had never put them there but instead had only sold Warhammer ones.

WE DON'T LIKE RANDOM MINIATURES

We buy them because we need them for our games, but we buy them pissed off at you guys.

Speak for yourself. I am fine with random packed miniatures as I know it’s the only way we will get good sized sets.

Yes, Reaper has sold visible pre-painted minis for awhile now, but it has been one miniature at a time. I believe it’s been around 40 minis over a couple of years. Where with the random packs, we are going to receive over double that in less than a year.

Also, don’t forget Paizo will be selling visible encounter packs, as well. Probably 4-6 minis in a blister pack of certain type of creature, or maybe some heroes. And Paizo has said numerous times already they plan to bust open cases they are purchasing and will sell singles. Nevermind the miniature stores you can buy singles online.

So quit act like you are being persecuted and random is your only option, because that is just not true.

Oh, and please quit trying to speak for everyone with your “we”, as there are a lot of people who do not agree with you.

Grand Lodge

Honestly, i don't care for randomized minis either...HOWEVER, the problem I see is that many people look at it as Pre-painted random miniatures vs Pre-painted NON-random miniatures when the reality is our choice is Pre-painted random miniatures or NO pre-painted Pathfinder line AT ALL.

Given those options I wil happily choose random miniatures over no miniatures.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Cole Cummings wrote:

This is a great informative post however it forgot one aspect of miniature retailing. The CUSTOMER. If your goal is to sell miniatures to brick and mortar retailers so they can unhappily stare at them on their less packed shelves then this line of reasoning makes sense. However every game shop I have ever been to enough to actually get to know the Vendor, that Vendor has frustratedly complained of how RPG random pack miniatures sit on the shelves, sometimes for years, and how they wish they had never put them there but instead had only sold Warhammer ones.

WE DON'T LIKE RANDOM MINIATURES

We buy them because we need them for our games, but we buy them pissed off at you guys.

Wake me up when Lisa Stevens bursts through your door, throws you out of your house, drags you the the LGS and forces you to buy the random minis at a gunpoint.


Cole Cummings wrote:

This is a great informative post however it forgot one aspect of miniature retailing. The CUSTOMER. If your goal is to sell miniatures to brick and mortar retailers so they can unhappily stare at them on their less packed shelves then this line of reasoning makes sense. However every game shop I have ever been to enough to actually get to know the Vendor, that Vendor has frustratedly complained of how RPG random pack miniatures sit on the shelves, sometimes for years, and how they wish they had never put them there but instead had only sold Warhammer ones.

WE DON'T LIKE RANDOM MINIATURES

We buy them because we need them for our games, but we buy them pissed off at you guys.

Speak for yourself. I know at least 2 game store owners happy that they aren't in blister packs because they don't have room for a new pegboard. Both also intend to buy/open minis for sale as singles. Perhaps all those places that claim they sit on the shelves should try it. Different areas have vastly different buying habbits.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Sorry, I buy them quite happily because my other choice is no pre-painted minis from Paizo.

But, if you need Pathfinder minis for your game, here are some non-random options from Paizo:

1. There are now over 100 non-random Pathfinder metal minis by Reaper. I own quite a few. The quality is exceptional and they include many Pathfinder-specific characters or monsters.

2. Paizo will be selling individual minis from the Battles line and any other random packs that Paizo/Wizkids releases.

3. Paizo/Wizkids are going to be releasing non-random encounter packs of pre-painted minis.

4. There are a great collection of full-color paper minis supporting many of these adventure paths. Just look for Pathfinder paper minis. Also, many of these have been recently re-released with expanded lists of creatures. These are a great source of Pathfinder specific characters and monsters, but many common ones too.

As you mentioned, there are also plenty of non-Paizo options although very few non-random pre-painted ones. Im guessing that just maybe that might be because no one has managed to work out a successful business model for them

I know of two sources for non-random pre-painted minis:

1. Individual DDM minis available here and from many other retailers.

2. The 40 or so that Reaper has produced.

If you and the retailers you frequent prefer other options, but are willing to give up pre-painted, you have a wealth of options including Warhammer, Reaper, and many, many others.

I think the customer is very well served by Paizo and many others in this market. I am very happy to have so much choice in my gaming. It sure beats how I started out with coins, dice, and the occasional Grenadier mini.

Sczarni

Cole Cummings wrote:

This is a great informative post however it forgot one aspect of miniature retailing. The CUSTOMER. If your goal is to sell miniatures to brick and mortar retailers so they can unhappily stare at them on their less packed shelves then this line of reasoning makes sense. However every game shop I have ever been to enough to actually get to know the Vendor, that Vendor has frustratedly complained of how RPG random pack miniatures sit on the shelves, sometimes for years, and how they wish they had never put them there but instead had only sold Warhammer ones.

WE DON'T LIKE RANDOM MINIATURES

We buy them because we need them for our games, but we buy them pissed off at you guys.

Adding my store to the 'speak for yourself' crowd. Once wizards put visible minis in their packs we had to buy 5 times as much packs for the same number of sales - no one wanted certain visible, causing us to still have some packs, but everyone would complain if you didn't have the pack with the visible dragon/beholder, which you could only get from the distributors if you bought a case, or got really lucky ordering less than a case.. This means that the retailer had to buy more, and in turn has more sitting on their shelves now of packs that people only will buy at discount. Random minis means for the same price you are just as likely to get that dragon/beholder as the next person, they won't get it just because they were lucky enough to be there when the store opened the case.

Sczarni

michaelane wrote:

As you mentioned, there are also plenty of non-Paizo options although very few non-random pre-painted ones. Im guessing that just maybe that might be because no one has managed to work out a successful business model for them

I know of two sources for non-random pre-painted minis:

1. Individual DDM minis available here and from many other retailers.

2. The 40 or so that Reaper has produced.

Also Wizkids is redoing mageknight, and also has a license for LotR heroclix, so you can keep an eye on those properties to see their prices as well (but they will also be rendom)


michaelane wrote:


I think the customer is very well served by Paizo and many others in this market. I am very happy to have so much choice in my gaming. It sure beats how I started out with coins, dice, and the occasional Grenadier mini.

Grenadier Minis were fantastic. I have recovered just about every set. I do not use them in the game as I prefer Reaper minis. I don't paint because I suxors at it. The Grenadier minis really are descent quality, they just are not really to the modern scale.

PLUS, grenadier minis shaped many of the ideas I have about D&D.

Love them!


Irony: Complaining about the aweful terribleness of RANDOM PACKAGING on a website that carries NON-RANDOM SINGLES of the same product.


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Cole Cummings wrote:

WE DON'T LIKE RANDOM MINIATURES

We buy them because we need them for our games, but we buy them pissed off at you guys.

By "we", you mean "I". And when I say "I", I mean "you".

There is a product for you; Paizo will be selling minis you can select from.

Better yet, it's cheaper. There are 40 molds. Some are $6 each and a few are $2 each (2 Smalls in a booster costing $4). Most are $4. So even if you wanted all of them, that'd be about $160. You can pick and choose. It'll cost you anywhere from $4 to $160 depending on how many of the 40 you want.

What you want is the minis to cost less than that. Well, here's the thing. Those of us willing (and able) to buy bricks or cases are making it possible for you to buy singles. If it weren't for us, there would be no product for you, and no product for us. We happen to get a perk because we're buying in bulk and blindly; we pay less per mini.

You're welcome.


Mournblade94 wrote:
KaeYoss wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:


I grew up in New Orleans. 100 degrees and 100% humidity was the norm during many summers.
100% humidity? But that means you're under water!

All that 100% humidity means is that you have hit the dew point. When the condensation is forming on the window, and the grass is wet, your at 100% humidity.

Sorry...

Its a compulsion. I just taught this today in class.

In class, eh? I guess the you'll teach the difference between your and you're tomorrow. :P

(Sorry, couldn't resist, you being a teacher and all)


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Cole Cummings wrote:
This is a great informative post however it forgot one aspect of miniature retailing. The CUSTOMER.

Nah, it's easy: The customer wants minis. He might prefer non-random minis to random ones, but he prefers random minis to non-existent minis. Otherwise, he wouldn't be the customer because he wouldn't buy anything.

If you feel like you're buried in replies to your post, it's because you are. And that's because you bring up the same thing for the 1375th time (I guessed the number, might be more)

Cole Cummings wrote:
If your goal is to sell miniatures to brick and mortar retailers so they can unhappily stare at them on their less packed shelves then this line of reasoning makes sense.

Also, it makes sense if anyone wants to sell anything. Which businesses in the selling business usually do.

You see, what you seem to have overlooked (which is okay, it's only in the FAQ and lots of time in this thread ;-P) is the fact that if they weren't random, they'd either be a lot more expensive (to the point where nobody would want to buy them) or have a really, really small selection of miniatures.

So WizKids and Paizo went with a scheme where the miniatures have prices people will actually be willing to pay, in a product line that has 40+ figures per set, not <40 minis in three years.

Cole Cummings wrote:
However every game shop I have ever been to enough to actually get to know the Vendor, that Vendor has frustratedly complained of how RPG random pack miniatures sit on the shelves, sometimes for years, and how they wish they had never put them there but instead had only sold Warhammer ones.

Since when does GW have pre-painted plastic miniatures?

I don't know whether those vendors were just bad at their job (happens a lot in the world of RPG and comic stores) or just had bad luck, but it seems that random miniatures do indeed sell.

Cole Cummings wrote:


WE DON'T LIKE RANDOM MINIATURES

Who is that "WE"?

Cole Cummings wrote:


We buy them because we need them for our games, but we buy them pissed off at you guys.

So what? You're paying. And since you totally don't need them for games (you can always go without the battlemat, or use tokens, M&Ms, gummy bears, or unpainted metal or plastic figures), it can't be that vexing.

Even if it were, the fact that the alternative is not having miniatures at all (or maybe just ridiculously small product ranges), which would mean the businesses involved would make no money, and people would be even more pissed at the utter lack of miniatures, I guess Paizo and most fans won't be losing too much sleep. Lesser of two evils and all that.


KaeYoss wrote:
Mournblade94 wrote:
KaeYoss wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:


I grew up in New Orleans. 100 degrees and 100% humidity was the norm during many summers.
100% humidity? But that means you're under water!

All that 100% humidity means is that you have hit the dew point. When the condensation is forming on the window, and the grass is wet, your at 100% humidity.

Sorry...

Its a compulsion. I just taught this today in class.

In class, eh? I guess the you'll teach the difference between your and you're tomorrow. :P

(Sorry, couldn't resist, you being a teacher and all)

yeah yeah I teach science...


Anguish wrote:
Cole Cummings wrote:

WE DON'T LIKE RANDOM MINIATURES

We buy them because we need them for our games, but we buy them pissed off at you guys.

By "we", you mean "I". And when I say "I", I mean "you".

There is a product for you; Paizo will be selling minis you can select from.

Better yet, it's cheaper. There are 40 molds. Some are $6 each and a few are $2 each (2 Smalls in a booster costing $4). Most are $4. So even if you wanted all of them, that'd be about $160. You can pick and choose. It'll cost you anywhere from $4 to $160 depending on how many of the 40 you want.

What you want is the minis to cost less than that. Well, here's the thing. Those of us willing (and able) to buy bricks or cases are making it possible for you to buy singles. If it weren't for us, there would be no product for you, and no product for us. We happen to get a perk because we're buying in bulk and blindly; we pay less per mini.

You're welcome.

While I agree with the gist of your comments, you claim that it will cost $160 for all 40 purchased individually is most likely incredible in accurate. If all miniatures were produced in the same quantities, we might be able to claim that, but some miniatures being rare, and thus more expensive on the secondary market, we can't make such a claim. You may have medium miniature that costs $1 on the secondary market and another one that costs $10. That doesn't average out to be $4 a piece, but instead $5.50.


pres man wrote:
While I agree with the gist of your comments, you claim that it will cost $160 for all 40 purchased individually is most likely incredible in accurate. If all miniatures were produced in the same quantities, we might be able to claim that, but some miniatures being rare, and thus more expensive on the secondary market, we can't make such a claim. You may have medium miniature that costs $1 on the secondary market and another one that costs $10. That doesn't average out to be $4 a piece, but instead $5.50.

Minis on the secondary market will average out to ~$4 per mini. If they sell higher, it becomes profitable for retailers to open packs and sell them on the secondary market. Common figures will tend to sell for less, while rares will sell for more. But when rares get too high, people open boxes just to find them, and then they sell the commons they find too, reducing prices all arround. Now, it may go higher, as retailers know they have to include unsold product sitting on their shelves in the cost to determine if it is worth opening the packs, but prices stabalize as long as supply roughly equals demand, which it should at the launch. Later in the lifecyle that may not be true, as unopened packs become harder to find.


Caineach wrote:
Minis on the secondary market will average out to ~$4 per mini. If they sell higher, it becomes profitable for retailers to open packs and sell them on the secondary market. Common figures will tend to sell for less, while rares will sell for more. But when rares get too high, people open boxes just to find them, and then they sell the commons they find too, reducing prices all arround. Now, it may go higher, as retailers know they have to include unsold product sitting on their shelves in the cost to determine if it is worth opening the packs, but prices stabalize as long as supply roughly equals demand, which it should at the launch. Later in the lifecyle that may not be true, as unopened packs become harder to find.

But we weren't discussing the average cost, we were discussing how much it would cost you to get a complete set. Yes, if I purchase 2 commons at $1 each and 1 rare at $10, that averages out to $4 a miniature. But if I just wanted one of each it wouldn't be $4 a miniature, but $5.50 per miniature.


pres man wrote:
Caineach wrote:
Minis on the secondary market will average out to ~$4 per mini. If they sell higher, it becomes profitable for retailers to open packs and sell them on the secondary market. Common figures will tend to sell for less, while rares will sell for more. But when rares get too high, people open boxes just to find them, and then they sell the commons they find too, reducing prices all arround. Now, it may go higher, as retailers know they have to include unsold product sitting on their shelves in the cost to determine if it is worth opening the packs, but prices stabalize as long as supply roughly equals demand, which it should at the launch. Later in the lifecyle that may not be true, as unopened packs become harder to find.
But we weren't discussing the average cost, we were discussing how much it would cost you to get a complete set. Yes, if I purchase 2 commons at $1 each and 1 rare at $10, that averages out to $4 a miniature. But if I just wanted one of each it wouldn't be $4 a miniature, but $5.50 per miniature.

The problem here is we can't put any data towards that answer until it has already happened. Fact of the matter is the secondary market sets the prices, they could (on a reasonable enough disbursement model) even out to $ a mini even using the rare and 2 commons setup with a rare being $10 and 2 commons being $1 each, or a rare being $25 and the commons being being $0.50 each which makes them over $8 each in that case. We won't klnow until the cases hit, the market figures out the chase rares and how easy/hard it is to get and sets prices based on what they can get. What we DO know is that for around $200-$300 you can get nearly a whole set (probably a whole set) and extras to trade or sell if you like... Take that as you will.

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