I don't think my question got answered: will it be necessary to get the Campaign Setting to have all the world info?
Uh.. it's necessary to have a LOT of books to have ALL the info. If you don't have the first 18 issues of Pathfinder, you're already missing a HUGE amount of info on Varisia. I think what they were saying is that it won't completely overlap — you may find some things in one book that are not in the other, both ways. Probably not a lot more than you may already be missing if you don't also own the Gazetteer, I'm guessing.
Director of Brand Strategy
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I don't think my question got answered: will it be necessary to get the Campaign Setting to have all the world info?
If you have the existing CS you wouldn't need to get this one, though it will be more pages and thus contain additional information not in the two-year-old version. But even if you get this book, it won't contain all the world info, since there are thousands of pages already of setting material from two years of APs, modules, chronicles, and companions.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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As one who already has every sourcebook and will be buying a second copy of the CS in the form of this book, I'd rather get a new PrC. Since Pathfinder Chronicler appears in the core rulebook, why not make a different Pathfinder PrC with a different flavor? We've already got the Pathfinder Delver, Savant, and Student of War. Surely a more general Pathfinder could be added to allow for the organization that lends the setting its name be represented among the "core" PrCs.
The problem with including one faith-based or national PrC over another is that it adds importance to that nation or religion over the rest. So while it would be cool to see the Spherewalker, or Pain Taster, or Justiciar, I'd rather it be representative of something more universal for the entire region.
Are there any PrCs or organizations that might tie in with Aroden? He is arguably the most important figure in the region's history, having founded Absalom, survived as the only Azlanti, killed Tar-Baphon, and then died in a world-rending catastrophe. Something regarding his legacy might be a nice addition.
Off the top of my head, isn't there a feat out there that allows one to use a certain Andoran sword in combat a bit more effectively? Perhaps build a PrC around that....or being an attendant of a school or gymansium based off a certain fighting style. *shrug*
You are thinking of the ALDORAN duelling sword...the Duellist already covers this more than adequately with regards to PrCs.
And I agree with Yoda...what about the 'Venture Captain' as a PrC
It's getting a new cover by Wayne. The book's going to look VERY different than the current one.Even if I love my Pathfinder CS, I'm glad that this and the map folio are coming out! :)
James, will the cover stay the same, or are you going to replace it with new art?
Good to hear- can we please get a decent scan for the cover this time? The last one was just so anti-aliased, it was downright off putting :)
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Creative Director
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Good to hear- can we please get a decent scan for the cover this time? The last one was just so anti-aliased, it was downright off putting :)It's getting a new cover by Wayne. The book's going to look VERY different than the current one.Even if I love my Pathfinder CS, I'm glad that this and the map folio are coming out! :)
James, will the cover stay the same, or are you going to replace it with new art?
Nah. I was thinking this one would be so pixellated you could use it as a battlemat.
In terms of the 4th prestige class, I'd agree with Mark/yoda that I'd like see something less regional and more widespread. A generic Pathfinder prestige class could certainly fit that bill. But, given that every type of core class can become a Pathfinder, it would need to have some general, less class-specific entry requirements.
Another option would be to define a true pirate prestige class...or, at least, some kind of seafarer. After all, we are talking about the Inner Sea region, right? So, it might make some sense to include a prestige class whose flavor encapsulates the importance of all the seafaring cultures across the Inner Sea...but then, give it enough mechancial 'oomph' so it's just as playable on land...and not as restrictive or specialized as the Shackles Pirate.
Or, if you'd prefer something entirely new, maybe you could also create a ranger-based prestige class with a more fleshed-out role for a Golarion wilderness explorer? That way, he could cross boundaries between nations and regions, maybe have some abilities that stack with a ranger's favored terrain bonuses. It could serve as a trailblazer and supporter of frontier communities with religious leanings or inspiration from both Erastil and Desna. Kind of like a traveling 'gunslinger' in the Old West just passing through. It could dovetail off a ranger, a wilderness rogue or fighter, or even an inquisitor. But the bottom line is that it would have enough 'generic' flavor to exist in multiple places across Golarion.
Anyway, that's just my three-cents,
--Neil
In terms of Golarion "iconic-ness"
Harrower - check, harrow deck is highly evocative of one of the early archetypes of the setting.
Hellknight - hell, yeah - ever since PF#2, Hellknights have worn the badge of "awesome".
Red Mantis Assassin - weeeeell, good for GMs I guess, less so for players, but pretty damn iconic.
#4 - has to be something Pathfinder-related; the Pathfinders are the most iconic element of the setting. Venture-Captain gets my vote.
Since the Pathfinder Chronicler prc is already in the Core book, I'd rather see another Inner Sea-spanning organization highlighted. For example, the Aspis Consortium are one of the Pathfinders' greatest rivals. They need some love.
I've been toying with the idea of an Aspis Consortium prc. In my notes I call it an Agent Provocateur class, but I'm not 100% sold on the French-influenced name.
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There's gonna be a reproduction of the inner sea region on page 7 of the book. And every nation/region will get its own larger scale map in addition. There's gonna be a LOT o'maps in there.
I love this idea. The only thing I ever thought was really a "flaw" in the original was that I had to keep flipping to the poster map while reading about a nation and having to search for it, just to get an idea of where it was.
(I never even noticed the typo on the poster map. Wow...)
Aren't there already like four Pathfinder Society PrCs? I think we should go with something different. Maybe some kind of Shoanti prc? If we're reprinting, then an updated Shackles Pirate or Low Templar would get my vote. But you're right, Shackles Pirate definitely needs a change.
Edit: Just noticed that I wrote "we" up there... It's nice being a Paizo fan. :-)
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I would have an issue if there was a Venture-Capt. PrC. As cool as it would be it sets a standard on Venture Captain’s having the same traits.
You have too many different VCs out there to define it into on super class.
Take the Sothis lodge or the Tails in Diobel, those VCs would have to be a business "people" related to do their jobs.
The VC Jorsal of Lauterbury, I don't see him being a businessman with his adventures in fighting demon specialties.
The Woodsedge Lodge, ran by three VCs in secret, I don't think they would all have the same VC PrC abilities.
It just seems to hard to define what characteristics a VC would get.
Please don't define a VC by a class. Let the diversity of leadership be free. Take the leadership feat instead.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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And yeah, the Low Templar was just totally random/lame, no one will weep at their absence.-1.
Not my feelings on the Low Templar at all.
But I have the original PCCS so I don't mind if it gets dropped.
I liked em, and besides their obvious design use to be "douchebag anti-crusaders in Mendev," I think they work very well as rogue knights, mercenaries with some interesting skills and tricks, bandit lords, treacherous minor nobles, troubled redemption cases looking to make up for past sins, and those kinds of roles.
I'd throw in a vote for this being a PrC that is both regionally specific (Mendev) but also generally useful at the same time - there's really nothing about them that requires going anywhere near Mendev to use any of the benefits of the class.
P.S. I wouldn't be averse at all to some kind of pirate/corsair PrC, and I don't think it's hard to create one that can have some fun nautical abilities without that having to be their entire schtick.
...besides their obvious design use to be "douchebag anti-crusaders in Mendev," I think they work very well as rogue knights, mercenaries with some interesting skills and tricks, bandit lords, treacherous minor nobles, troubled redemption cases looking to make up for past sins, and those kinds of roles.
In fact, I designed Sir Bransen Waike of Artume in the River Kingdoms to essentially be a low-templar who seized power there. So, I heartily approve of the Low Templar prestige class. I'd even like to play one someday in a game with an eye towards redeeming himself by the end of a campaign.
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You have too many different VCs out there to define it into on super class.
I disagree. Not all Venture Captains necessarily need to have class levels in the Venture Captain PrC. Just as, in my opinion, not all Hellknights need to have class levels in Hellknight, nor do all Harrowers need to have levels in the Harrower prestige class.
Personally, I would like to see a completely new, or at least redone prestige class, as the Hellknight is already in PFRPG material, and while Harrower is 3.5 it shouldn't take much work to make it PFRPG (Red Mantis Assassin though might take quite a bit more work, in my opinion.
I think the Venture Captain would be a decent option, although there are already lots of Pathfinder PrCs out there. Another fit would be a god PrC fitting either Aroden, Abadar, Sarenrae, etc. Possibly expanding/using the Justicar (My avatar-sake!) from AP #8 would work, although it is a relatively short PrC.
Basically, I'm hoping to get the four most iconic Golarion prestige classes in there. I know what three are. Anyone want to nominate and support the fourth?
I want to support Evil Lincoln and his suggestion:
The Balanced Scale Prestige class (Chronicles, Guide to Katapesh)
As was pointed out, the class has great flavor and specifically showcases the impact of Golarion's deities very nicely.
There's gonna be a reproduction of the inner sea region on page 7 of the book. And every nation/region will get its own larger scale map in addition. There's gonna be a LOT o'maps in there.
Good; that was the most disappointing part about the original Campaign Setting, IMO -- the only useful map was the poster map which was too bulky for me to easily consult.
My dream maps would be something like in the AD&D Greyhawk boxed set -- not just maps with political borders, but maps with natural resources, alignment by region, etc.
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Creative Director
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How much of my current CS will be rendered obsolete by this?
That's my big concern.
Also, I have avoided subscribing to the PFRPG line because of the cost of shipping big ol' hardcovers. I hope this is a one-off because I don't want to have to cancel my Chronicles subscription as well.
The reprint has, essentially, 4 goals.
1) Update the rules elements in the PCCS to be compliant with the Pathfinder Rules.
2) Increase the background material for the nation/region entries so all of them are 4 page entries.
3) Correct the numerous typos, continuity errors, thematic errors, layout errors, and other problems that infest the 1st printing.
4) Add more rules content; now that we know what rules system our game world will be using from now on (something we DIDN'T know when we were preparing the book's first printing), we can support that system with more rules. We'll be adding monsters, magic items, feats, and other rules elements all over the place... but not at the expense of cutting any of the flavor content from the current edition of the book.
But in the end, I'm hoping that someone who's only got access to the 1st printing of the book will be able to enjoy Golarion just as much as someone who's got the revised version.
Im in (as usual).
The reprint has, essentially, 4 goals.
Five, sir...
5) Eliminate mention of the Slor.
I bet he'd include that under 3.
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But....but....why get rid of the Slor? Obscure monsters need love to!Because it's a silly and unnecessary easter egg to Ghostbusters.
Oh crap! You were being serious? That was actually in there? And now you're going to get rid of it? Hmmmm....
has visions of slowly eliminating all other copies with the reference to the Slor in them, until he holds the only copy in existence
Actually, a divine spellcaster type prestige class would probably be a GREAT idea. Hmmmm...
One that augments positive energy to provide expanded healing abilities?
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Creative Director
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James Jacobs:
I don't suppose you can resurrect Lissala maybe, or at least some aspect of her legacy?
Only there was a *LOT* of interest in rune/sin/virtue magic of any kind back during the Rise of the Runelords AP, as far as I recall.
There'll be two pages in the revised book that talks specifically about the dead gods of Golarion. Lissala will be covered there.
It's getting a new cover by Wayne. The book's going to look VERY different than the current one.
I *so* hope he shows up at Origins again this year.
I even promise to buy more original art if he does. Hear that?! :)
There'll be two pages in the revised book that talks specifically about the dead gods of Golarion. Lissala will be covered there.James Jacobs:
I don't suppose you can resurrect Lissala maybe, or at least some aspect of her legacy?
Only there was a *LOT* of interest in rune/sin/virtue magic of any kind back during the Rise of the Runelords AP, as far as I recall.
Sweet! I love info on dead gods.
Actually, a divine spellcaster type prestige class would probably be a GREAT idea. Hmmmm...
Did I not already suggest the Balanced Scale?
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Director of Brand Strategy
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Actually, a divine spellcaster type prestige class would probably be a GREAT idea. Hmmmm...Did I not already suggest the Balanced Scale?
That's a pretty specific PrC. It's tied both to one region (Katapesh) and one religion (Abadar). I imagine whatever the fourth PrC is it will be something one could encounter or play in a variety of situations.
But....but....why get rid of the Slor? Obscure monsters need love to!Because it's a silly and unnecessary easter egg to Ghostbusters.
Unlike all other D&D monsters, which are 90% silly and unnecessary easter eggs to one thing or another...
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Actually, a divine spellcaster type prestige class would probably be a GREAT idea. Hmmmm...
In a bit of irony, one of the three PrC's I wrote for the Campaign Setting (the PF Chronicler and the Low Templar being the others) *WAS* a divine caster, the "Idolater," which was kind of a cultic idol-priest. Alas, that one ended up on the cutting room floor, but presumably it lurks still somewhere in the vaults of Paizo, hammering uselessly on the walls of its electronic prison... :)
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Creative Director
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Unlike all other D&D monsters, which are 90% silly and unnecessary easter eggs to one thing or another...But....but....why get rid of the Slor? Obscure monsters need love to!Because it's a silly and unnecessary easter egg to Ghostbusters.
Actually... one of the things that we try to do with our monsters IS to take them pretty seriously. We do a LOT of research into their history and myths, and try to honor and keep those myths alive in the monster's writeup. So I very much disagree that "all other D&D monsters" are silly or unnecessary easter eggs. Most of them are not; most are based on either real-world myths in some way or another or are legitimate creations of their own.
Also? While Ghostbusters is a very fun movie... it's also a comedy. I'm not a fan of making fun of the world I helped build by being jokey about it. Comedy, in my opinion, is much better if it evolves organically out of the game (as in the case of our goblins) rather than if it's the game designers sitting back and yuk-yuking it up with easter eggs and goofy stuff. That's what made 2nd edition AD&D my least favorite edition, after all... the overwhelming sensation that a lot of the designers were goofing around and not taking the game seriously.
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Creative Director
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Actually, a divine spellcaster type prestige class would probably be a GREAT idea. Hmmmm...In a bit of irony, one of the three PrC's I wrote for the Campaign Setting (the PF Chronicler and the Low Templar being the others) *WAS* a divine caster, the "Idolater," which was kind of a cultic idol-priest. Alas, that one ended up on the cutting room floor, but presumably it lurks still somewhere in the vaults of Paizo, hammering uselessly on the walls of its electronic prison... :)
I also seem to remember that prestige class being SUPER wordy, taking up WAY more than what we could fit on a spread with an illo, and required another new subsystem of categorizing ruins on a scale of powers that would have made every ruin in the game have a stat block, yeah? We needed the prestige classes to fit on 2 pages.
Also, I like picking on you. Revenge for all the killer gorillas, if you will. And the sword-breaking hook horror. (runs off to cry)
Did I not already suggest the Balanced Scale?That's a pretty specific PrC. It's tied both to one region (Katapesh) and one religion (Abadar). I imagine whatever the fourth PrC is it will be something one could encounter or play in a variety of situations.
I doubt it *needs* to be region specific, not only is the god a common fixture through most of Golarion, but since the class will get a flavor and rules rewrite anyway, it can be repackaged slightly. And the dependence on Abadar as such isn't a problem (see Mantis Assassin).
Now note the good things:
- Divine caster prestige class
- Really inventive and enjoyable class powers that lend themselves to creative play
- Emphasizes the non-generic nature of deities in Golarion (a god vault that you actually get to go into!? Awesome!)
I like the Pathfinder prestige classes that have been printed uptonow - but I really wouldn't consider any of them for a character I play; except for the Balanced Scale - the whole concept just captures my imagination and wants me to play with it.
Don't the Shoanti worship spirits or something other than the normal gods? How about a Shoanti Totemist or shaman?