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If I had to venture a guess, I would say that negative reactions to using toon to refer to characters in Pathfinder (and probably other tabletops) is a symptom of the 3.5-4e edition wars. One of the major complaints that came up again and again was that 4e was felt more akin to a tabletop MMO than a PPRPG. Regardless of whether that complaint was valid or not, it was prevalent, and since toon comes from MMO jargon, I would say that people became more adverse to its being used in PPRPGs.
Personally, I don't care if people I play with use it because I know some of them come from MMO backgrounds, although it does make me automatically expect them to enjoy combat and character builds more than RP. The constant appearance of debates over the Stormwind Fallacy are evidence enough that a lot of people have adverse reactions to players favoring "role-play" over "roll-play," so when someone says toon there's a good chance someone else will have a knee-jerk negative reaction to it.
I dunno about "sounds legal..." To me this is falling under the magic item creation rules, and it's PRETTY clear that 4500 gp to give your armor permanent flight is wayyy out of line with the prices for existing magic items.
But again, while I'll argue that it's no where close to legal per the existing RAI, if your group's cool with it, do it. I've done it in one of our games, except it was a flying chair. It worked out fine for us.
Yea, you really have to take advantage of their illusions and enchantments to make them shine. I've had some crazy ass fights by abusing their SLAs to their fullest extent. The party couldn't see the real arena, the aboleth's minions didn't look like minions cuz they were all veiled, one melee combatant got taken out of the fight due to a well worded suggestion, the sorcerer got dominated and the party had to dominate him themselves to get him back on their side... they didn't know what was real anymore.
And that's without even throwing on class levels! You can make them awesome dude.
Winged Boots are cheap as far a flying items go. I dunno how well those fit into your definition of reliable though.
Also, play an aasimar and investing in the feat chain from ARG that gives you wings would cost no gold, but you'd have to spend some feats.
I'm pretty sure the animated armor won't work though. Generally, if you find a work around that's too good to be true, it's broken and you probably shouldn't use it. But, then again, this is mythic, and mythic is all about being OP. See if your GM's cool with it.
What's up with the price restrictions though? You guys are level 10 with five mythic ranks, shouldn't that give you a hefty amount of cash?
To repeat what everyone else has said, the Ultimate Campaign revision is SO MUCH BETTER than the rules originally published in Kingmaker.
That being said, if you want your kingdom to flourish, you HAVE to make sure you're pumping out as many build points as possible. As others have said, that is difficult without selling off magic items, but not impossible. Just build scads of whatever gives you cheap economy boosts.
Are you sure you guys are playing the rules right? A stagnant, two year old kingdom with seven hexes seems a bit off, as neither the kingdom building rules nor the Kingmaker AP itself are THAT harsh. A breakdown of your kingdom would be really interesting to see.
edit: You could suggest dividing the economy checks by 3 instead of five. That would help get things kick started. Or ask the GM if he can build an encounter where your party makes a diplomatic mission to Brevoy to ask for more BP.
I always took the line about visibility to mean that the solid barrier would likewise not impede a spell's casting unless it obscured visibility, so an invisible barrier wouldn't impede a spell that wasn't actually moving something through the barrier. HOWEVER, you learn something new every day. Now we'll see how our group takes the rules change...
Reading wall of force again, it does state explicitly that spells cannot pass through in either direction. However, I'd always taken that to mean any spell that actually requires something to pass through the wall though, like rays and such. If the wall is invisible, why wouldn't say, a pit spell, be able to be conjured on the other side?
That spell is awful and I have a vested interest in hearing the conclusions from this thread.
As far as I know, there's no official ruling about how actions that take place at the same time resolve. I let the spell work against attacks, but that just seemed like a common sense adjudication to me. If you can't use it against attacks, why can you use it against a ceiling collapse? Also, even though there's no general rule about getting to interrupt other actions, the general rules also do not restrict when they can be used:
an immediate action can be performed at any time—even if it's not your turn.
Emphasis mine. So there's no limitation on when you can use them in the rules. My guess is that whoever wrote EFS forgot to define the parameters under which it can be used, but we'll never know that unless a dev comes in to clarify. I'm just gonna call the spell OP for now.
China Mieville's The Scar is a modern pirate novel and it's a really fun read. His Perdido Street Station is probably my favorite one of his novels, and it would go well with Council of Thieves, at least insofar as it has a very dark, gritty, urban setting with lots of monsters going bump in the night. Some of those monsters have actually inspired some things in the PF bestiaries, I want to say.
The first book of the Wheel of Time series is good reading for the beginning of Rise of the Runelords, especially if you want to play up the small town hero trope.
Carrion Crown - HP Lovecraft, et al.
Serpent's Skull - I haven't read any, but I'm 90% sure that William S Burroughs provided a huge amount of inspiration for the AP.
I've played two games with co-GMs.
In one we had a GM who liked encounter design, building enemies, and drawing combat maps, but who didn't fancy himself a great RP-er or world builder. The second GM took care of the whole setting and most of the plot. First GM ran encounters, while second GM would introduce the weekly scenario, clarify setting lore, and run most of the more RP intensive encounters. Our opinion, as players, was that they were both pretty much good at all aspects of the game, but the dual GM system floated their boats so it worked really well for everyone.
In the second game, we started playing RotRL but knew that the GM would be leaving for basic training and then AIT, so he wasn't going to around for big chunks of the game. He and I decided to co-GM, so we both made a character together and he ran the first book. Book one ended just before he had to leave, so I picked up for books 2 and 3 and DMPC'd our character. While he was in town he picked up the character while I kept GMing, and once he's back for good he'll either finish off the last three books or we'll trade off from book to book. We still collaborate while he's out of town too. It's been a good system to avoid having to put the game on hiatus for six months while the GM's gone.
A definition which is Grounded and True and Applicable in All Possible Situations, I'm sure.
Exactly. They're both such ridiculously huge words that I don't see any meaningful argument coming out of a claim that says one is better than the other.
Part of the absurdity of this science vs philosophy debate is that they're both such incredibly broad categories that you can't make a value judgement of either of them. How are we defining philosophy in this thread? How are we defining science? Can any definition we come up with cover every aspect of both categories well?
Count Coltello wrote:
I suspect a non-English speaker?
If that's the case, I can sympathize. You gotta get someone to help you with your translation though. This isn't really legible.
A lot of the arguments I've read on the forums focus on the stupid amounts of damage that gunslingers can do. I've never seen this as a problem though, as bow fighters in our games fill exactly the same role. They both just sit back and kill enemies in a round, maybe two. For our games, I just treat the gunslinger & the bow fighter as essentially the same thing.
The idea you've got for the game is going to be really fun though! I've run a similar game, and while it didn't get but a few sessions in before we had to drop it, it's really interesting to see the changes in character generation and battle grid tactics once guns become prevalent.
That seems to be precisely what he is arguing, and that makes it our solemn duty as Sane People and Good Forumgoers to stop feeding the troll and get this thread away from an ethical argument about the difference between "can" and "should" and back to finding ways to break the hell out of our favorite system.
We are currently running an Evil Kingmaker. Since we are all in school, GM included, it's been largely run as-is. As other posters have noted, this hasn't been a huge problem since most enemies in KM will come after you regardless of your party's alignment. I think the biggest problem we've had was that the antipaladin has barely used his smite, but your regular paladin will encounter the same problem in an AP filled with neutral monsters.
The party consists of a human antipaladin who is essentially a walking, flesh bound force of violence that we just point at any problem that we need to be murdered. He is the warden. The king is a 3pp clockwork oracle who builds clockworks and machines ("miracles"), and runs the kingdom just like Machiavelli would have. The kobold synthesist summoner turns himself into a black dragon and wades into melee. The antipaladin usually rides him, and he serves as the general. We also have a Tyrion Lannister-esque rogue/sorceror who has his diplomacy and bluff skills jacked so high he can talk us out of virtually anything, and a tiefling gunslinger who runs a brothel and acts as our spymaster. She occasionally hints at eating patrons.
Here are some of the ways that the AP's most significant plot points were resolved with an evil party as well as the more interesting changes that have come about as a result of the evil party (warning, spoilers ahead!):
- Book 1 was almost completely normal. Our treatment of the bandits was just exceptionally brutal at times and the antipaladin seduced Svetlana into cheating on Oleg at one point.
- Book 2 got more interesting. Our ruling council is quite a bit more aggressive than a normal party might be, so we broke out the mass combat rules early, raising a militia in order to deal with the troll horde in the south. We still dealt with Gregori through diplomacy in front of our people, but he was mysteriously "disappeared" that night. We decided that Melianse was a threat to the kingdom's industry and killed her. Unfortunately (and hilariously) the antipaladin had decided to see what living as a werewolf for a while would like, and he turned in front of the lumberjacks after we saved them, meaning we had to kill them too so word about the lycanthrope on the council wouldn't get out. We plotted a conspiracy against Jhod, the priest of Erastil, in which we blamed him and Erastil for all the trouble that nature had been giving us. The king instated a new state religion by simultaneously unveiling our nation's first clockwork miracle, a large construct designed to defend the capital from future owlbear attacks, and convincing the public that Jhod, his religion, and nature were to blame for all the nation's recent troubles. The state religion, which worships machines, innovation, and industry, is mostly used as tool for maintaining state control by inspiring nationalism.
- Book 3 continues to become more insidious, as there are many more opportunities for evil solutions to the problems your PCs face. When we discovered the souls of the citizens of Varnhold, we sold them of course, summoning a contract devil and selling the souls to the forces of Hell. We populated Varnhold with our own citizens, and forced the centaurs off of their land with an army.
Our GM tells us that Book 4 will be significantly altered to include some good enemies. He has also included some encounters that indicate that Erastil is pretty upset with us for trampling over nature with industry and banishing his faith in the region. I'm also currently writing a sequel campaign which takes place 150-200 years in the future where the PCs will lead a revolution to overthrow the evil empire that we create in Kingmaker.
Our group is currently playing Kingmaker with an evil party (Tyrantmaker!)
We are aggressively expansionist, so we sold the souls of the citizens of Varnhold and moved our own people in. This made the process of expanding into Varnhold take about two months.
Our GM statted up the centaurs as an army. We'd had reports that small bands of centaur had begun patrolling Varnhold and the rest of the western Nomen Heights, and when our first group of settlers arrived the centaur army quickly descended on the village. Luckily, our alchemist and our antipaladin, who is one of our primary martial characters, had decided to provide escort. While the army approached we quickly barricaded our citizens in the fort and the antipaladin met the centaur leader, who basically gave us a "leave and never settle these lands, we've already had enough conflict with the other humans who lived here" ultimatum. We naturally refused, so the alchemist did a plague-bomb run while the antipaladin managed to slaughter their leader, the second in command, the third in command, and about 30 centaurs in what was definitely one of the most impressive combats we've had in our six years of gaming.
After that we raised our own army and marched them east to drive the centaur out. Our scouts discovered that the centaur were in such poor shape after two weeks of being ravaged by leprosy from the alchemist's plague bombs that they were packing up and getting ready to abandon their territory. Their army was still active, however, and we discovered that they had allied themselves with a bunch of fey and several sympathetic azatas that Erastil had sent to aid them (we've been really brutal to anything nature too; we've built a pretty strong anti-nature discourse and our citizens hate Erastil). The azatas met us in a small copse of trees and gave us yet another "leave or die" ultimatum, which we refused yet again. They attacked, but as we fought we found out they were just trying to buy time - a small army of treants was hidden in the trees and began bombarding our army. We rolled well though and managed to fight them off. The centaur army arrived shortly after we finished off the treants, and we summarily decimated them, thus securing the eastern portion of the Nomen Heights.
That's our story about the Centaur Wars!
I will buy Chronicle of the Righteous, Champions of Purity, Distant Worlds, or Cerulean Seas: Beasts of the Boundless Blue for the first twelve posters that want them
Nah, it's not even for combat.
The PCs investigate an ancient dam, which is a relic from Thassilon. They discover that the pressure release machinery is powered by a trapped pit fiend. When they encounter it it's so badly drained of its life force that the writers don't even stat it up. It's just there to provide the PCs with the moral quandary of deciding whether they should take mercy on it and free it or let it die in a pretty terrible way in order to fuel the machines again and save a lot of lives from the dam bursting. You could just put a balor there instead, or whatever the CR 19 daemon is, or any other of the bazillion high CR evil outsiders there are.
I just control+f'd my way through the AP searching for "devil." I only got the devil I just mentioned and the one in the final chapter, so it looks like RotRL is pretty devil free :] Should be fine to run for you guys, which is good because it's basically the best AP for first timers.
I just scanned the Spires of Xin Xalast... I only saw the one devil in the whole thing. If that's the case you could swap it out for just about anything else of equal CR. It didn't look like you'd be messing up the plot much; it plays a pretty simple role in the adventure.
Did I miss other devils in there?
Hell, you could probably just swap them out for demons. We haven't gotten to the last part of RotRL yet so I can't comment fully on the role of devils in the last book, but aside from the chaos/law difference demons and devils aren't much different. Mechanically they are very similar and they occupy the same niche in the game, so I'd have to imagine swapping one for the other would require pretty minimal effort.
Kingmaker is awesome, although I dunno how the kingdom ruling subsystems would fly with a new group. It's a great campaign though, so you could just run it with the "kingdom in the background" option.
Skull & Shackles is all right. Our group never really got into it. I dunno if new players would be able to handle the moral ambiguity in that game. It usually takes some finesse to play non-good characters, especially when you're doing piratey stuff.
Jade Regent is supposed to be a great one, Paizo put a ton of work into it.
You'll have a hard time finding any AP that doesn't have demons or devils in it though. You may want to consider just swapping them for something else when they appear in the AP, cuz they're in just about all of them to some degree or another. I think Kingmaker has the fewest - there's just a couple daemons scattered around.
I will buy Chronicle of the Righteous, Champions of Purity, Distant Worlds, or Cerulean Seas: Beasts of the Boundless Blue for the first twelve posters that want them
Well the rolling method you used is going to generate much higher than average ability scores to begin with.
I'd recommend just switching to point buy though. Our group got to a point that our rolled ability scores were getting crazy and we made the switch. We've all been much, much happier with point buy.