walter mcwilliams's page

If I do it again, I will also have her support the boggards, wraiths, and devils with her bardic skills. The critters at the sunken queen, with any Castle Korvosa survivors, and Ileosa supporting them will certainly challenge PC's. And like CaroRose mentioned she could easily do it all from inside the safety of the sunkenqueen.

From my own experience ( with an also powerfully rebuilt Ileosa ), the party will easily stomp her and the minions she has with her. Unless they walk in without any mental protections like, say, Protection from Evil, in which case it can turn ugly, fast. My guys went in warded and didn't were too challenged. The action economy works something fierce against Ily.

Exactly what happend to my group they warded up and stormed her. I had 6-8 PC's who really broght the bacon.

When I DM'd this for my group, I gave them one sentance of out advice on how to succeed

Cheating or the perception of cheating will nullify or lessen the accomplishment and be frowned upon by the quah. Completing the trial in the correct spirit, the spirit of the Shoanti, is what counts!!

I had a Shoanti PC and she informed all party members that she felt the use of magic in any way would count against that member and perhaps the party as a whole. I did nothing to discount that, and infact would have said the same thing if asked.

By encouraging PC's of this level not to use magic you enable them to work together as a team, come up with some great plans, and create a much more dramatic and memorable event.

The bard chanted and sang encouragement to inspire the party occassionally, the Shoanti barbarian ran from her totem to the wizards to help keep it up, ropes and teamwork hauled them to the top, it was great fun to watch PC's with a good bit of magical power at there hands work out problems in a simpler manner.

When the Bullettes attacked the PC's often fought in shifts running from totem to totem to keep them up while battling the monsters, it was really quite fun.

Of course all of this happened as bolts of lighting flashed, thunder roared and wind howled.

Yep good times!!

I struggle with this same question alot in my games. I prefer as a player and a DM to earn/reward my magic in game, similar to Yora's method above.

Everytime a player develops a new PC it begins with the visualization of what the PC will grow up to be and this includes the magic items he or she will posses. As a DM I think we should work at meeting that players visualization, after all that is part of the fun of developing and playing a PF character. As a DM you have a lot of expectations to meet. A player who is excited about his axe swinging, shield bashing Viking with all the feats in place to bash Saxon skulls is going become very disinterested if the campaign doesn't give him the opportunity to obtain the uber-arms he drooled about when he developed his Viking.

I think everyone agrees that after a memorable encounter, having a hero pluck a magic weapon from your slain foes hand, is more satisfying than going to magic-mart and plopping a small sack of gold on the counter.

Just as memorable from my standpoint is the crafting of magic. The visual of the party wizard proudly presenting an enchanted blade to his companion after a week of nail-bitting crafting is just as strong.

However, magic-mart style does have a place in the game. It allows for direct interaction with otherwise ignored NPC's. DM's spend hours developing a living breathing community for their players to experience and the magic-mart gives these hapless NPC's a chance to shine. It also moves the pace of the game forward focusing on the action and plot more so than the mundane.

I have noticed I tend to use magic-mart early in my camapaign to establish relationships with NPC's to help immerse the players in my world and set the mood. As the campaign progresses the other two methods of availabiltiy become more common.

I don't think every item should have a story behind it, but certainly some should, especially if they are a focus of the campaign (Serithial in CocT for example). That said, the only story of the item that really matters is the one your player writes while using it!

Ulitmately, its a balance of all these and more that is probably best.

Dismounts soap box!

I agree with many of the comments by those with far more expertise in RPG design than myself, but like them I have been gaming and Dming since the 70's so I know a little about playing, and frankly this monster WILL produce many memorable encounters. Employed by crafty designers and GM's the Argopelter will prove the metal of many adventuring parties. A ranged combatant with superior mobility against most parties in an environment that offers it a ready supply of ammunition and concealment will be a twist many parties of experienced players have never faced. Melee heavy PC's will be forced to pull out the bow, with the dry rotted string, they've been carrying around since PC creation; ranged PC's will be given a chance to go shot-for-shot against it. Spellcasters have a plethora of unique ways to deal with an Argopelter, be it direct damage, battlefield control spells, summoned creatures to chase him through the trees or what ever.

Encounters with an Agropelter are more than a stick-thowing-monkey. The Agropelter's mobility and accuracy are going to turn them into running firefights as PC's rush from cover to cover firing off bow shots and ranged spells as their tormentors maneuver through the trees constantly harrassing them with their own ranged blows. Everytime the party sees an opening of escape the agropelters cut them off and force them in a new direction, hearding them toward an unknown hazzard.

Charlie you get my vote. Ordonious looks forward to many memorable encouters with agropelters in the near future.

Charlie, great entry look forward to giving it a try if someone from our group steps up and DM's Kingmaker. I find using the Ranger spell list a unique, and to me exciting design choice.

Charlie, so proud of you brother and so deserved. This was a great entry and I am looking forward to your next entry. All the Way!

I also have a preference for the old style folios, but the new style are probably better over all. Photo copy's of the map or prints form the PDF are cheap so the map folios bring me additional material.

My group didn't do it this way, but go for it. You have 6 PC's so they should be ok. The finnale might be difficult but if you think so have one of the NPC's tag along as a red shirt.

Not a PFS player, but I am enjoying playing an inquisitor for the first time in our CCAP and here are a couple of my suggestions based off my experience through the first 4 levels.

1) Echoing Joanna above - Stay away from save spells, I personally keep to mostly self-buffing spells and use the alternate favored class option (I am human) to gain a new spell known regularly.

2) Rycaut's comments are also spot on - Inquisitor play is about patience and resource management. Your buff spells can make you a monster combatant, but it takes time to get spun up. Nothing sucks more than getting spun up, fighting for a round or not at all, then boom end of encounter. My first teamwork feat was lookout, and I always try to position myself next to our party rogue as he has the highest initiative in the party. That increases my odds of acting in a suprise round and often get both a move and standard action! This can allow you to cast a buff spell in the suprise round, again in the 1st round and activate your judgement putting you in a really good position by the second round.

3) Rycaut also mentions intimidate - To date I haven't had much success with this in combat as many of my foes have been undead, which of course are immune. Like all the other abilities that are the hallmark of the inquisitor class its about resource management. Outside of combat have a blast with this, its great rolepalying fun.

Awesome work.

I would like to see some extra-planar travel akin to SCAP that was great fun.

I had a PC that was really into the "I want to be the next blackjack" story so, as soon as they learned about this "poser" he and the rest of the party set off to put an end to it. I used the Sczarni hencmens wishs to try and foil the party so my wannabe could enjoy vanquishing his competition. It was a great fight and everyone had fun.

I wouldn't worry about the planer travel issue. Any PC's stuck in hell can probably survive long enough to be rescued, and its always great to split the party for a bit and get them out of there confort zone.

My plan was actually to leave the planar travelling folks alone and focus on those left behind by having a gray maiden patrol harass them.

I would probably go with a potion of protection from evil.

The +2 deflection bonus to AC and a +2 resistance bonus on saves against attacks made or effects created by evil creatures. Is probably not to useful at mid to higher levels but, the

While under the effects of this spell, the target is immune to any new attempts to possess or exercise mental control over the target. This spell does not expel a controlling life force (such as a ghost or spellcaster using magic jar), but it does prevent them from controlling the target. This second effect only functions against spells and effects created by evil creatures or objects, subject to GM discretion.

Has saved many a party member from being hacked to death by their own tank.

Since 2004, I have been blessed to play/dm with two different and very talented troupes of gamers. This tale concerns the first. I only played with them for about 3yrs in Miami, and I ran SCAP. One of the PC's was the bastard son of a concubine. When,at the end of Test of the Smoking Eye I revealed the PC's father was actually the main antagonist of the entire path (a true luke I am you father moment)a hush fell over the table for like 5 minutes, and the player actually had to excuse herself to collect her thoughts.

I love creating emotion like that at the table. To me the game is always about the story, and immersing yourself and your players in the fun of being hero's. When can get the players away from the mechanics and builds, etc that's awesome.

is there a discovery for diseased bombs?

Not that I am aware of, but hey craft one up for your Queen's Physicians. That's the fun of DMing AP's, tweaking and twisting them up to make them your own, and suprising the heck out of your players.

I love the fact that this is a problem. Having magic mini-marts breaks immersion and breaks the fun of finding treasure. It also encourages entitlement mentality.

The fact that APs work to break this entitlement menality is great. For me, this is a feature.

However, my opinion does not invalidate yours, and it's interesting to see how the different APs get written to try to alternatively cater to both of us at different times. Not all APs have the issue that you mentioned. Some (like KM & CC, and especially LoF) do. Others (like CoT, JR, or ShS) don't. We each get to pick and choose our favorites.

This is a great post Erik, I work diligently in all of my campaigns (mostly AP's now days)at all levels to limit the magic-mart mentality and entitlement mentality.

ah cool i sorta saw it the same way, a cavaliers edicts greatly resemble the maidens oath of allegiance, although I might use order of the warrior or cockatrice.

Im also rebuilding doctors as alchemists.

Rebuilt doctors as alchemists also, bombing PC's while killing plague victims in the hospice really pissed off my paladin and oracle. The oracle PC is a real nurse so he showed no pity on them. By the way, this makes them substantially more dangerous. I also gave Dr D some alchemist levels and he was very deadly.

So my CotCT campign is still in it's infancy, as my PCs are now in the thick of Edge of Anarchy, which means I am probably getting ahead of myself but, whatever.

So I see Edge of Anarchy as the module where you set the AP up, introduce most of the main characters and the city Korvosa. Following that line of thought I have added many encounters to the module that introduce both new faces and places.

And so it happens that the PCs already encounterd Pilts (destined to become the emperor of old korvosa one day in the still rather far future) and I have built a sort of museum/gallery of wierd stuff/bar of gruesom delights where Pilts entertines those among the rich people of Korvosa who are out for an exotic evening. When the PCs dropped by to take a look, they also found some very destrubing pictures by Salvador Scream.

I want to make the entire "possesed by Kazavon" thing a little more prominant in my AP. It is mentioned shortly in "Escape from Old Korvosa" that some creative people in Korvosa have, over the years, recieved desturbing nightmares and visions from Kazavon, who planted his seeds of evil and madness in them - for example that psycho toymaker from Seven Days to the Grave.

Salvator Scream, the artist, is one of those people. So I have an artist possesed by evil, and already introduced a creepy gallery owned by a friend of him (Pilts). adding those two makes... Gallery of Evil!

Gallery of Evil is one of the D&D 3.5 modules about an evil artist animating his pictures and using them to kill people. I want to import that adventure into Korvosa, using Pilts as the evil painter (who the PCs could eventualy chose to redeem instead of fighting). I can use many things in the original module as they are, but I want to add some AP specific paintings to the collection.

So what I am looking for are paintings relating to Kazavon's past, or maybe to his future plans. Thing that Scream, in his insanity, might have seen and painted on a canvas to ease the tention from his mind. If you have an idea...

This is an awesome idea! In my campaign, I used the tie in to the artists who committed suicide as background in my in game newsletter. That way when the party met Liori and she was talking to the skulls it brought that background information into the light. I suppose you could tie your Gallery of Evil idea into that part of the story somehow. One thing I did in giving a brief report on the suicide of each artist was reference the color blue. None of the PC picked up on this until Liori explained it to them and they all got a great laugh out of it.

Another art related theme I encluded was a collectible trek. In each chapter I included like framed paintings of each of the major cities themed in the other AP (xin-shalast, Korvosa, Celwynvian, City of Brass, etc). Each of these paintings were only worth a few GP, however when taken to the Jeggare Museum (cant rember his name darn it), PC's received a bit more GP, bonuses on knowledge checks, or some other boon. No player picked up on the theme lol!

I started with the fast xp track and switched to thematicaly appropriate after the 3rd chapter. I had 7 players so I very stingy with levels.

It doesnt have to be family members, but anyone the PC(s) are close to. Also, the inquisitor and the oracle both of the heal skill so this can certainly aid in curing disease. I also took a hint from Assassin Creed II and from day 1 through some doctors out on the streets of korvosa to buy healing, anti-plague etc from.

Truthfully, the plague and 7days is the diamond of the 6 gems that make up this wonderful AP and I highly recommend it.

Of all the facets of CotCT the Order of the Nail actions/reactions were the most difficult of all for me, as the DM, to decide upon and portray to my players. Luckily, I had no player with a close tie to the organization so it wasn't necessary to provide them with a major role.

My decision was to give the organiztion scene time in EoA tapering off through 7days, as the Maidens began there rise to power, and finally ending in their self-imposed exile.

I converted all of the gray maidens to cavaliers. I created an order of the gray maiden, which was pretty much order of the lion with all the mounted hoopla converted to similar non-mounted qualities.

I do it like CaroRose, with one reading for the entire group. I tend to do a full spread with the entire deck, and just improvise on the results. Try doing a few practice runs for yourself, just so you get a feel of how to take the vague descriptions and spin them with what is coming up in the adventure. Make sure you have a clear idea in your mind about what the players are likely to face when you Harrow and don't be afraid if you are stumbling through it. I still feel clumsy when I interpret, but my players say that they really enjoy it.

This is almost exaclty how I did when I DM COCT as well. The harrow deck is your friend, and is met to be vague. It allowed my PC to read way into it, and set up a lot of great red herrings. It also allowed me to give some direction to keep them from leaving the sandbox altogether and some hints.

Yeah, mentioning the sunken ship at all in the beginning was a huge mistake in my campaign. For those who haven't gotten there yet, DON'T MENTION IT! It's a huge hook that drives the PCs straight there before they're ready. They actually mention making sure the PCs can't reach it until you're ready for them.

I think you have to mention it. The city guard just engaged and sunk a ship in the middle of the night, and the artillery woke up a better part of the city?? But as a DM you better have a plan, because players being players they're goning to want to get there.

I had the Sable Company and Korvosa Guard cordon of the area of the sinking with boats and hippogriff patrols and deny entry to everyone. It even allowed me to give Edrin some more face time with the PC's. My players were fiending to get there and approached Cressida. Cressida gave them the "It's on the water, so that's a Sable Company matter, however I will speak with Edrin about getting you a pass." line.

This worked good for my players and the story went on well.

Once the hospice was suspected, the players sent someone in undercover to scope things out, and things flowed well through out.

What makes 7graves so great is the great way roleplaying interaction with the community drives the hack and slash wonderfully. As DM I highly suggest, if your party hasnt developed a love Korvosa and a hatred for the bad guys, this is the best opportunity to change that. The plague can, and should knock off a few very close family, friends or NPC's the party has made!

When I was a younger DM, deities had much more direct influence in my games. Now however, I generally disalow "god calls" or other such mechanics by any players. If I feel Deific intervention strengthens the story, then I do so through subtle manipulation or if direcet action is necessary by a proxy. The listing of deity agents and hearlds provided by Paizo is extreamly helpful in this.

When I play a particular PC, I also set aside a few sentances in his background to determine the level of his devotion, if any, to a religious creed. Hopefully this gives some insight into the PC for both the GM and me as I prepare for the roll. But even if I am playing a PC who is particularly zelous I look at it as just one of the facets to enjoy play around and not a defining one.

In my campaign the Grey Maiden's had three barracks locations. Longacre Prison was were new recruits were indoctrinated, low-level maidens were at the hospice of the blessed maiden, long acre prison, and the castle proper and then take over the Sable Company's old barracks when they are disbanded. As the story unfolded, and the maidens grew and the guard shrank they eventually take over the Guards's quarters displacing the last remanents of the Korvosan guard.

Sounds to me like you want to be the wielder of a famous sword, instead of the wielder that makes a sword famous.

Personally, I'd rather the sword I wield be held up as a legend, an heirloom for future generations. I want stories to be told of the foulest sorts of evil that have fallen to my blade. I want enemies to fear the bite of my steel, the sound of the blade cutting the air, long after I have fallen. When people talk of my blade, I want them to feel emboldened, or terrified.

But I want them to talk about my sword, because I was the one wielding it. The sword itself is powerful, but it's true power is unlocked in those who earn the rights to wield it.

That's the story of the legendary knight I would wish to tell. I don't want my sword to make my character famous, I want my character to make my sword famous.

My suggestion to you, is to make a knight you could be proud of. One who's tales are told for aeons. Make a knight, who's skill at arms is legendary with even the most shoddy of blades, but when he wields his sword Serithtiel... oh how the fiends of the outer planes tremble at your march.

Serithtiel has one legendary story to it. Just one. It was used by Mandravius to defeat Kazavon. If you notice, Mandravius and his story is well remembered by those in place to do so. The sword is less so. Mandravius made Serithtiel famous, Serithtiel was a sword that was passed down in his family, no one had really heard about Serithtiel, until Mandravius used it to slay Kazavon.

Be Mandravius, and make the sword famous.

Excellent Post

A Pc keeping the broach and wereing it publicly would lead me down a very fun road as DM. Arrested for theft, introduce reoccuring royal friend/foe, ooh yeah lots of fun twists with that one.

1) 15-point buy, start at Level 1.

--No dropping any stat below an 8
--A PC can only have one stat that's lower than 10.
--18 is the highest stat allowed at 1st level.

2) Medium XP progression.

3) Rules set: I run a "Core Rules Plus" table: Core Rules, plus some rules from other sources, mostly the APG
--Core Races only.
--Core Base Classes only, plus the Cavalier, Inquisitor, Oracle, and Witch base classes from the APG. No alchemists or summoners allowed as PCs. (Summoners don't exist in my game world at all.)
--I do allow some archetypes, but not all of them are appropriate for my game world.
--Equipment and feats from APG are allowed.
--I'm also using the additional Combat Maneuvers from the APG
--Only Core Rules spells are freely available. Spells from other Paizo sources exist in the world, but they are rare, and have to be found/researched before a PC can use them. (i.e. a cleric can't just cast any spell from any source-- the specific spell from a non-Core source has to be found somehow.)
--I have a campaign web site with a list of additional allowed equipment, feats, and spells. Most are from other Paizo sources (e.g. Inner Sea World Guide) or are my conversions of some WOTC 3.5 rules that are appropriate for the setting.
--NOT using Hero Points or traits-- although in hindsight, I will be using Traits in my next campaign.

4) No evil PCs. The plot assumes the PCs are the heroes of the story.

Almost word for word my campaign handout lol!!

1. What amount of character points do you allow at creation for abilities? [10, 15, 20, 25]

I used to do 20pt builds, but my gamers are super experienced so I have tried to balance that and the fact we are a 5 PC party by reducing to 15.
2. What rate of experience do you use? [Slow, Medium, Fast] Medium or I level them up on a time line.
3. What supplements do you usually allow? This is always a negotiation. Core only with everything else being at my discretion. No 3rd party stuff ever.

In general my players are very experienced all having played for a decade or more except one, but her husband has been playing a long time so has a permanent aid another action lol. I try to make it very challenging for them.

Playing through an AP with a 25pt build and access to entire armsroom paizo has to offer is fun and that's all that matters. But my players are masters of the mechanics of the game, which play way more into d20 than they ever did in 1ed, so I challenge them, get them out of there comfort zone so to speak

The key to the two urban based campaigns I have run was to develop a strong emotional connection between the PC's and the urban environment. I used two main mechanics for this. 1st - The PC's have to develop a background with ties to people in the city be they family, friends or enemies or even a very important place. 2nd - I author an "in game" new paper or news letter as an NPC publisher. Sometimes I am the voice of the rebellion or whomever the "good guys" are and sometimes the "bad guys". Everyone like to read about themselves so the headline is always what the heroes did or failed to do, spun to the benifit of the newsletters voice. I also place lots of fluff on important NPC and locations, red herrings and other background info to inculde advertisments for local business the PC's can shop at.

That's my 10 cents! Good Luck!

I hate being in a party without any of the four food groups. If I must be I can live without the Rogue, but no Wizard and I mean Wizard can be a difficult pill to swallow in any AP. To many bench mark spells lost IMHO. My Carrion Crown currently is without a true arcane caster and it worries me. The leadership feat is certainly in our future lol!

Lack of Spring Loaded Wrist Sheath made me sad.

Yeah, not certain why that one didnt make it, but my DM ok'd it for use so no worries!

I pre-build the knowledge charts for every creature, location, etc. that I can think the PC's might find interesting. At the lower numbers I give the general creature type info, then sub-type info the up to specific creature info.

For NPC and Locations I am much more vague, and a knowledge check alone may not be good enough to get the real info the PC's want. That forces them to use spells and NPC to aid in their research. And yes, even then things are sometimes unknowable.

Is there a plan to do a Jade Regent set?

Has there been an update on this where I can go to find these feat discriptions?

When I ran RotRL during its initial release my players loved every moment of the ogres and ogre kin.

As for selective reading - I believe the entire adventure is a nod to the origial TSR 1ed Giant Series may some insperation can be found there.

We have a Strix, who was rescued by Professor Lorrimer in his travels. So far it has worked well.

Regardless of PC levels if everyone at the table is paying attention, prepared for their turn, have an excellent working knowledge of their PC's abilities, and can do simple math then combat is smooth. My group of 7 conqured the STAP finale very well (at one point our group could muster 41 iterative attacks per round when hasted), and my other group handled the SCAP finale equally well and both of these are high level scrums.

It really helps when you've played your PC from 1 to "X" so you can ease into the higher level abilities and spells. I dont think they're anymore complicated, they just see alot less use so player familiarity is substantially less.

High level play is also heavily effected by PC group / battle size.

For me this is an interesting thread. I cannot help with a video, I can suggest that if you find text descriptions and have the time layout the map and figs and war game them to get a feel for how they play out.

Another way to improve your tactics is to look at the real world principals of war used by armed services world wide. The USA recognizes 9 and they all apply to combat tactics in the PFRPG world.

CotCT and Savage Tide are my two favorite AP's. Good luck getting to run them all the way through...

Player in STAP from start to finsih, and GM the same group through COCT. And yes, they are certainly to very very good AP.

I have gamemastered or played in 3 AP for 7 player parties so for what its worth here is my advice.

1) For 5 players (our current group size) I suggest no changes. If you feel you need to make changes make them as early in the campaign as possible.

2) Don't add extra treasure with 5 or 6 players the extra attacks, over lapping abilities etc more than make up for the shortage of cash.

3) In combat encounters giving all the monsters max hp can help keep thing interesting.

4) One key note is bard and bard like class really really shine in large parties so beware, that a bard enspiring three other players vs 4 or 5 others will really have a telling affect.

In HS circa 1983 my 10th lvl monk bit the dust in the grand finale of this awesome module. I have been working on a PFRPG conversion of this for several months, but work keeps distracting me.

Strangely I am currently playing in a sidebar campaign from our normal group that is a follow up to Second Darkness. We are all elves Diviner, fighter, fighter/ranger in Celwynvian fighting Drow. Honestly, I prefer the small group. Way more intimate, more interaction with NPC etc. since we lack the 4 food groups.

Some great inspiration for SSAP on TCM right now.

The problem with the pricing for Metamagic Rods is that they are only too cheap for some classes. A Rod of Maximize is good for a Wizard/Sorcerer at that price, but not for a Cleric/Oracle really, just because there are much less uses for it. Increasing the cost will make them even less useful for most other classes, and probably still not touch the Wizard/Sorcerer really, who do not need as much money for other gear. Just keep them from getting them as early.

The only real way I can see Metamagic Rods being more balanced would be to either make them 1/day or have an arbitrary rule that a caster can only use 1 Rod in a given day, or maybe since Rods have 3/Day uses, any combination of Metamagic Rods 3/day only. Still screws all the nonflashy casters, though.

I don's see metamagic rods as unbalanced in any way.

Sorry but, as a player who played through this section, I'm afraid I don't see the problem. By this point of the campaign the party is at least 12th level, has confronted giant armies, countless undead abominations, infernal beings from the nether realms and even traveled across planes. I'd feel pretty silly if I were on my way to a legendary lost city to confront the ancient big bad and still had to concern myself overmuch with trivial environmental issues like cold and thin air. Your cleric character has proven her faith and virtue in titanic struggles and has been rewarded with powerful spells from her patron. It makes sense that Sarenrae will grant her servant the ability to protect herself and her valiant companions so that they might achieve their lofty goal. As long as the players have the foresight and good sense to prepare the necessary magics and the willingness to dedicate their resources to using them as needed then that's one less thing with which they and you need concern yourselves. Accept it happily and move on to the action. :)

Well said Ambrus. The environmental effects, which are a significant part of the stories and movies which inspire us as players, usually become insignificant very early in PC careers. For me and apparently Kegluneq, this can be a bit of a let down.

I have the same issue with Comprehend Languages.

Seems to happen every July/Aug/Sep when we roll over to the new AP and the paizocon/gencon/origins trilogy happens. I now budget appropriately for july/aug/sep. It's summer christmas lol!

Telekinetic Sphere + Create Water

I belive this combo goes against RAW. Resiliant Sphere, Telekinetic Sphere, etc. All function as Wall of Force, which " spells cannot pass through a wall of force in either direction, although dimension door, teleport, and similar effects can bypass the barrier".

Metamagic Rods - Are awesome, metamagic extend is probably the best 3k you can expend as any spellcaster (especially rangers, paladins, etc). All the rest are great also, nice to have when the moment arrives when you really need them, but didn't want to take the feat.

Metamagic Feats - I have always seen the feats as an option the original designers intended primarily for spontaneous casters to get a little more bang from their limited spells known. That said, I really feel that quicken for high level casters should always receive serious consideration.

When I play wizards I certainly have difficulty filling my feat slots, I am certain it's just me, but I can't ever seem to buy into the metamagic feats, excpt quicken, either. The rods are sufficent. I rarely if ever play sorcerers (I hate the retarded prgression to the next higher spell level)but the few times I have the metamagic feats worked well.

just my thoughts