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Oliver McShade wrote:

Goa'uld are easy.


However, the curse effect isn't cumulative, right? Becuase that'll get really hurtful really fast.

The spellcasting in dragonage, as I've said, and shall continue to repeat, really, really, really, should be done with the Spellpoint system. There's even rules for Vitality, spellcasters becoming more and more tired as their spellpoints are used up. This means that spellpoints are also restored as a mage would become less tired. As the generic Mage class hasn't been adapted yet (and likely never will be), I think Sorcerers fit best for Dragonage, specifically those of the Arcane or Destiny bloodlines, but, in theory, the others may work, with those just being the most common.

Now that you mention it... Baal lives too...

Because everyone loves Baal.

That's actually a pretty good idea... Bast actually was killed, but she was so minor a character that it's actually quite easy to tweek that event.

That considered, there are a number of gods otherwise unacounted for.

Nut and Geb
And (with our intervention) Bast

Additionally, Aten might make a good Goa'uld to try and step in and fill Aroden's shoes. Infact, considering who and what Aten was in egyption mythology and history, I'd be tempted to say that they are, infact, a 'fallen ascended being' in a manner similar to anubis, though, that well could be opening up a whole new can of worms... just easier to say they're a lesser god and leave it at that.

My original intention was to just sort of have Goa'uld lifted and transposed into a fantasy setting. They'd still have an intersteller empire, big pyramids as ships, most of the major lords would be the same, but certain aspects would be toned down... No deathgliders, no Heavy Staff Weapons on the ships... etc...

However, the idea of mixing even further elements intruigues me... one I like alot is that Elves traverse through stargates (quite possibly control Galorion's original stargate? wich all other 'portal' technology is based on?)

As for Goa'uld having actual levels, I'd rather not... the Symbiote will have hit dice when outside of the host (pathetic few), but is almost completely helpless without someone to be inside. Since the intension is that the Goa'uld will be almost entirely villains, I don't see any problems with this. That said, Artificer, Alchemist, Sorcerer (once they become familiar with magic), and Cavalier are **great** classes for them to have.

Now onto the fun part, Goa'uld Artifice (Technology).

I have no clue how to adapt the power guantlet, as of right now.. though, one of it's abilities I think is possible.

Goa'uld Personal Shield: As a Standard Action, a Goa'uld may use this device to create a cylander of energy that surounds them and any others occupying their square. This provides a +8 shield bonus to AC and makes them immune to ranged attacks. To maintain the shield, they must make a Concentration check equal to 10+ the number of rounds the shield has been active. They use their hosts character levels for the purpose of caster levels in this case.

Some other items.

Zat: This item can be used by non-goa'uld. When closed, it resembles a strange crosbow, and when opened, it resembles a stricking serpent being held by the tail. It does damage as Shocking Grasp (CL1), and the target must make a fortsave (DC:20) or be stunned for 1d10 rounds. If they are struck with a Zat blast again within the encounter, they take an aditional d6 of electrical damage for each time, but no more than 5d6. Oh... it's done with a Ranged Touch attack. A fully charged Zat has 20 uses, then it's naquadah stores must be replenished (any recomendations on how to handle that?)

Staff Weapon: This can be used by Non-Gua'uld. This weapon is extremely powerful. In melee, it functions as a +2 quarterstaff, but at range, it is capable of firing a burst of energy that does 2d8 fire/bludgeoning damage. An opposed Str check (DC:20) must be made, or the target is thrown to the ground. In this way, it serves as a standard ranged weapon. It also has 20 uses before neading it's Naquadah stores replenished.

It is primarily intended for NPCs, as the Goa'uld are, as a general rule, Chaotic Evil, bordering on out right stupid evil.

@Shaa'ghi- The host would have to have those classes. Goa'uld do not have class levels themelves. I couldn't think of a way to easily mix class levels between host and parasite, so I just decided that the host would determine it.

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So, I had this really cool idea to have a Goa'uld type race and adding them into my pathfinder campaign. While some changes are of course going to happen, I want alot of their bits to largely remain the same, and most certainly keep the general flavor of the Goa'uld.

Here's what I've got so far.

Goa'uld are tiny sized creatures that resemble worms, who have powerful minds and inate magical abilities that power most of the magical items they create. However, in order to use these items, and to truly be effective, they must claim a host. This host creature must have an intelligence of at least 3. Upon possecion, the Host gains the Goa'uld Host Template.

Goa'uld Host: In most cases, when a Goa'uld takes a host, they choose to completely dominate the mind of said host. When this happens, the Hosts mental ability scores (Int, Wis, and Cha) are all over ridden by the Goa'uld's own. The Goa'uld effectively gains all their class levels and may use all of their abilities. Any of these abilities that are restricted by alignment, however, are unusable if the Goa'uld's alignment differs from the hosts by more than one step. The Goa'uld may recall any and all of the hosts memories at will. a Goa'uld must succeed a disguise check if they are to successfully impersonate the host. This check takes +5 if they are of the same alignment, or a -5 if they are 2 steps different.

A Goa'uld host gains the following stats:
+2 Str and Con
+4 to Int and Cha (if the host is willing and dominant SEE BELLOW)
+4 bonus to saves against Poison and Diseases that effect the host
-4 against Poison and Disease that target the symbiote.
Immunity to Enchantments
Enhanced Vision: Normal Vision becomes Low Light Vision, Low Light Vision Becomes Darkvision.
Enhanced Regeneration: A Goa'uld host regains an additional 3 hitpoints /day/class level.
Naquadah Bloodstream: During, and after, the time a Goa'uld is using them as a host, they are able to use Goa'uld items.
Voice and Eyes of a God: A Goa'uld may gain an intimidate bonus equal to the Hit dice of Symbiote and Host combined by speaking in a deep, booming voice, and allowing their eyes to 'flash' for a moment. This ability can be activated as a free action, and immediately reveals the Goa'uld if it was attempting to hide it's presence before.

Willing Hosts: In the rare occasions that a Host is willing, and allowed free will, the host essentially gains all of these abilities, as well as a bonus of +1/hit dice the Goa'Uld has on all knowledge checks.

Goa'uld will almost always choose attractive humanoids as their hosts, Favoring humans and Elves most, however, they are not above 'hopping' hosts in order to survive.


Please tell me what you think about this, also, any ideas on what Items I should include, and what their stats would be, would also greatly be apreciated. Additoinally, I'd enjoy having help for hammering out stats for the Goa'uld symbiote, as well as a way to quantify the process of becoming a host.

Unearthed Arcana gave rules for having only three classes, and I gave the link for these classes above. All you'd need to do is addapt them to the pathfinder rules.

Convert these for Pathfinder, and there you are.

Also, I'm not so sure on Qunari being full Orcs, myself. They are often quite intelligent creatures, and have survived without the use of magic, so I'd say Half-Orcs as well.

I think the key to that is good advertising. If you never hear about it, you're never going to buy it. Paizo has been GREAT with advertising, especially by word of mouth. Just imagine how rapidly the word would spread if they put out that Paizo's updating the aurora engine to Pathfinder, especially considering how rapidly Pathfinder grew after it's creation.

As difficult as it is to change thins like classes and skills, it is not impossible. Several fan mods have revamped and updated core classes in NWN2, particularly Kaedrin's Class Pack. So, I think, with some effort, you can actually do this. The important thing to remember is that pathfinder uses, essentially, DnD 3.5 with updated classes and updated rules for skills.

On the other hand, Paizo would become awesome to a rediculous extent if they ever had a game made along these lines. I would seriously pre-order it right now if I knew it were coming out.

NWN2 is a great game to do this on, but as said before, it is fairly hard to code with. There are, however, several toutorials on how to code for it, and I would be ALL behind this idea. You might want to check the NWVault for some of their class expansions and ask how they did those.

perhaps I should have bolded 'Fap-material'.

Either one of those would be positively evil... (The pain reduction/senastion removal). And right up Zon-Kuthon's alley. I tend to picture Zon-Kuthon as the god of twisted love. That those in his clergy do infact love one another, as opposed to the strictly master-minion of Asmodeus, and that it is twisted so that the only way they feel they can show that love is through inflicting pain. In my campaigns, this tends to show with a great deal of heretics who worhip both Shelyn and Zon-Kuthon (including a PC!). And I think the love undertones would make her breaking away even nastier. Where as Asmodeus expects a few of his clerics to fall from his grace, turning on the church for power, etc. Zon-Kuthon would not, I think, and it would be like being betrayed by a lover. In this way, I think her punishment would not merely be limited to some sensation thing, but also being made like a stranger, or more likely, an enemy to the entirety of the church, perhaps being marked somehow so that they would know.

Now, onto how I think this would fit with her becoming a Cleric or even, for some real fun, Paladin of Shelyn. While it is true that being a Cleric requires great dedication and training, keep in mind the similarities and, more importantly, the realationship between ZK and Shelyn. They both, in their own ways, are the gods of love, and both were very close at one point in the past. It is doubtless that a great deal of lore is shared by both. And I have many doubts that either really slenderizes the other, more likely viewing them as misguided and wishing to mend the two churches (with their own being the one proven right, ofcourse). So, I think that she could become one. And never forget, there are few as fanatic as the converted, and if her physical senses were dulled, she may well turn instead to emotional senses, wich would include poetry, art, music, and all of the things that are right of Shelyn's alley.

Really, this touches on a much larger thing that's been bouncing around in my head. Namely, just how much Zon-Kuthon is still related to Shelyn. Think of it this way, despite the fact that Zon-Kuthon is supposed to be 'evil' and be sort of the anti-Shelyn, he has forbidden his followers from harming her own. Further, almost all of his followers are willing, and share in close, if twisted, relationships.

In this way, them switching to Shelyn is most logical. Shelyn is, in many ways, very similar to Zon-Kuthon, and there is a strong connection between the two, with Zon-Kuthon protecting the goddess of love, and Shelyn's own clergy accepting the presence and even assistance of the other when it comes to them. It is by far one of the most interesting divine relationships in any campaign setting I've used, and I think it'd be great fun to explore.

HalfOrcHeavyMetal wrote:

please continue to grant us heroes that are more than fap-material.

Speak for yourself, I happen to like women with strong builds and even stronger personalities.

On the subject of 'hot orcs' Yes, I think Orcs can be hot, to be perfectly honest, I think that a great many races can be hot if done right. I've even found pictures of Bearded Dwarven Women that are absolutely smoking.

Then again, I'm very very strange.

Kryzbyn wrote:

Overall if you didn't have magic in some form, it'd be like showing up to a gun fight with a rolling pin.

Important Note: If you're damn good with a Rolling Pin, you just might win that fight. :P

Actually, I treat them as Simple Weapons. Their basically shorter range, More powerful crossbows. A Gun is easier to use than a Bow, etc.

Yes! Exactly! Mages just aren't for large scale battle. Meaning they don't really have a place in war aside from special forces and the like. (Also, very good for sieges, an Earth Elemental can just earthwalk right through that fortification and open the gate for you). But otherwise, things are just too big for them.

On the other hand, though. An high level mage is perfect on the battlefield, especially a Sorcerer,a s they can just rain fireballs down from on high.

That's just it though... the side with the Spellcasters doesn't nessisarily win.

A Level Four wizard can maybe cast a total of 5 combat spells. Of these Magic Missile and Flaming Sphere have the greatest range. The Wizard is very likely going to lay on one or two protection spells, limiting him to at least 4 spells. Additionally, he may have a disruptive spell, like Gust of Wind or Sleep. Further Reducing now to 2. He might kill a handful of enemies with his spells, probably drop 4 enemies, unless the roll nicely on their will, and knock down a few more. Then he's done for the battle, entirely. Out of spells. dead weight.

A Sorcerer has a bit more staying power, but they'll still be out of spells before the battle is half way over.

And Any fight wich calls upon a full blown lvl 8 Wizard or Sorc means there's gonna be Spellcasters on the other side, too, and those spellcasters may well be there just to disrupt Spellcasting, such as with Counterspells or Dispell Magic.

Also remember. A Sorcerer potential is maybe maybe, 1 in 100. Most wont get much higher than lvl 4 and just stay in their village as the local caster. A Wizards with ties to Arcane Universities are about the same. An nation that can muster an army of 10,000 will likely have 100 wizards. Most wont be higher than level 10. Each Wizard can probably kill 50 or so guys, if they prepare spells specifically for killing. Most forces that will be going up against a force will also have Mages. Those Mages will likely focus on disrupting the mages.

End result, Magic Users are largely forced into an Artillery like roll, or other wise nullified by a combination of superior numbers and a lack of enough spells, or by other mages.

I think you're all over estimating Magic. Perhaps a lvl 16 wizard could wipeout a whole army on his own. But really, how many lvl 16 wizards are there, in setting, who woudld even give a damn.

Druids even less likely. Maybe clerics, but most are Battlefield Medics.

How about we break down the kinds of infantry there might be on a battlefield in Galorian.

Light Infantry: Most likely Warriors, maybe even Commoners. Not likely to have anyone with a PC class in their ranks, or if they do, they'll be a fighter, ranger, or rogue who's serving as a commander or seargent. They do gruntwork, and in less scrupulous armies, will be cannonfodder. They're weak against quite a bit, and rely on weapon specialization within their ranks, whole units armed with just one type of weapon. Some of these might include:
--Muskets. Muskets are Simple Weapons (they really are, and I think that one of the 3rd party supplements has them as such), wich means that a unit full of warriors would be able to use them. They'd have less range than Bowmen, but would still be able to attack formations at range.
-- Pikes. This allows the unit to break up heavy cavalry charges and formations, maybe even light cavalry. It can be used against infantry in a charge, in a variation of the greek Phalanx, pushing enemies and hurting them before they're even within range of hurting you. Muskets were highly effective against Pikes, as the Musket range was greater than that of a Pike.
-- Various. Phased out by the time of the Musket, Light infantry was sometimes armed with various assorted weapons, typically axes or short swords, often in tandem with shields, and used as Cannon Fodder or as a pawn in controlling the battlefield.

Ranged Infantry: Probably an equal number Warriors and Fighters, with perhaps a Ranger or two in their ranks. Where muskets have a range of 50-100 ft, Bows are nearly double that. This makes them very effective for controlling a battlefield. Wont be heavily armored, and would rely on speed and other units to protect them. Light Infantry can be a threat, as they can get closer alot faster.
-- Longbow. The weapon most of us imagine with it, this weapon is very effective against almost all types of Infantry, but espesially Heavy infantry, as Heavy infantry is too slow to approach such a formation. Is a Martial Weapon, but has greater range and refire rate than Muskets or Crossbows.
-- Crossbow. Acts much like the Musket, and truly, The Musket largely replaced Crossbows on the battlefield. Still effective in sieges, however.

Light Cavalry: Light Cavalry is best used as scouts and breaking up Ranged Infantry. Will likely be Fighters or Rangers with Ride skill. Against prepared Light Infantry, they will not be as effective, but are good at surprising. Against Heavy Infantry, they are very ineffective.

Heavy Infantry: All Fighters, maybe some low level Paladins, with a cleric to act as Battlefield Medic. Light Infantry would be decimated before them, though Pikes a bit less so.
-- Muskets. Musketeers were this, as they wore Breastplate, and were often highly trained. This combination is deadly against light Infantry and Cavalry, however, it isn't very cost effective.
--Pikes. As Muskets, very useful, not as cost effective. Like Light Infantry but slower and tougher.
--Sword and Shield. This makes them even tougher, but means they gotta get close. Might have various weapons on them other than Sword.

Heavy Cavalry: Fighters and Paladins, again. Very Good at disrupting Infantry, so long as it's not Spear or Pike infantry. Less effective against Ranged Infantry, unless it's flat terrain. For that purpose, though, Light Cavalry is more effective.
--Lance. This makes Charging VERY powerful. Allows them to Decimate enemy forces. Supplemented by Sword and Shield, for when the lance is destroyed.

Artillery: On the Battlefield, Artillery is most used for disrupting the enemy. Catapults and the like are Siege equipment, not artillery. The First Artillery was like a Giant Crossbow, and after that, The Scorpian used by the Romans. It persisted like this until the Cannon was introduced, and Light Cannon became the quintessential Artillery for it's speed and stopping power.

Mages: Weather Sorcerers or Wizards, it doesn't matter. A handful of Low Level Mages might serve as Infantry, or be mixed in with. Area Effect or Line of Effect spells would be most effective. However, Many of these spells (like lighting bolt) Do not have the greatest Range. This limits there ability. Once they have fly, however. One Or Two mages can quicly step into the battle field to decimate a unit. However, their spells are limited. Sorcerers are more suited to the task of Battlefield Mage, but are not as likely to do this, and in many settings are rarer than Wizards.

Monstrous units are also a possibility, but there's too much to list, and some would just double as one or the other of those listed, with exceptions.

Undead: Effective Terror Weapons, if you can field enough, they are also resistant to both Muskets and Bows, making them good for approaching such formations. If they can use weapons such as those, they are even more terrifying.

Flying Mounted: Very Rare, but would dominate non-ranged Infantry. Decimated by Bows, Crossbows, or Muskets if they don't get the drop on them.

A Dragon: Just... if an Army has one of these on their side, Counter with PCs or another Dragon... otherwise, it's all over.

When college is far out of the hands of most, and takes intensive study from childhood, yes, yes you do.

Two things can be attributed to the Gun's Success on earth. The first, and most obvious, is Replaceable parts, wich won't happen in a fantasy setting since spells like mend make it rather useless, and hand crafted Magical Items are dozens of times for effective.

The other thing that made the gun powerful, and the most IMPORTANT, was the Bayonet. You see, Musket balls can't pierce plate armor, never could. Some of the recreational guns used today wouldn't. It's why Plate was INVENTED. Guns were more effective against infantry, and would wipe out entire regiments of infantry, only to be scattered by a small force of armored cavalry. Then came the invention of the soccet Bayonet, wich allowed you to turn your gun into a spear, and THEN turn it back. Suddenly, Armored Cavalry was unable to charge these formations, and before long, only Skermish Cavalry remained as an effective fighting force.

Now, such an advent may happen, or it may not. But guns ARE effective, and DON'T break the setting. Like I said, I like using them, myself, as they are an interesting weapon and can provide some interesting oppourtunites. A Pistol is like a hand crossbow that's more powerful, rendering it effective without sneak attack or poison. A riffle is more powerful than a Bow or Crossbow, but has less range than either. These are things wich lend them their usefullness. I'd say that if you have a player that wants to use them, let them use a Flintlock type weapon, for most settings. Flintlocks were contemporary to most of the weapons you see on the weapon table, even to some wich weren't contemporary to each other! (Rapier vs Greatsword, anyone?)

EDIT: Oh! Here's a great page about this! Just don't click any links away from it, or you'll be lost for days (I really hope there isn't an unspoken forum rule about links to this site >.>) Fantasy Gun Control

Back on subject a bit...

I personally allow Muskets in my games. Guns have been around ALOT longer than alot of people think, and I think they can fit quite nicely into a setting. The guns I use are Muskets, however, and not revolvers, riffles, or anything like that. This means that, while they have some superiority, they are also inferior in many ways to bows and arrows. A gun is not rapid fire, a Musket is much more inaccurate than an bow. ETC.

Huh... maybe Galorion IS in an Ice age... *ponders*

In addition to ajs' argument, I present the fact that Galorion and it's culture's are NOT Western Europe, or even decidedly Earth, in nature. While similarities exist, such is often the case anyway. While the west has had a strong disaproval of homosexuality for a long time, it also took a long time for that to develop and spread. Additionally, there are MANY cultures in the world in wich homosexuality is acceptable, though strange. For example, in Japan, homosexuality for both genders is acceptable.

Even more important, one must consider the strong role that Religion plays in concepts of Sexuality. A strong argument can be made that the Church is a major reason for many of the problems concerning sexuality in general in the west, and indeed, Much of the Monotheistic world. By comparison, most Polytheistic traditions are far less strict in their opinions on such. And Galorion IS polytheistic, and it's (current) Love Deity places no restrictions on love that concern sexuality. There for, I would say that much of Galorion wouldn't have much problem with it. Sure,there might be instances in wich there would be conflict, perhaps even pursecution, but largely, I think most would just go with it.

I was under the impression that the planes in the Great Wheel cosmology are all infinite. Such as the abyss being infinite layers of infinite size each. And the Astral Plane being of Infinite size as well.

However, with Pathfinder, it seems more like these Planes are just really... REALLY big. Like 'cannot cross in a human lifetime' for each individual plane itself.

I'm also not so sure about the Plane of Air being in space, unless the Pathfinder Material plane is the biggest of all the planes (Since it's implied that Space is big enough that it has the freakin lovecraftian horrors hiding out in it.)

I would be leary of saying that Gallorion is the Greyhawk of Pathfinder. My main reason being that it's just too dang PUT TOGETHER for comparison. It's my opinion that it's even better 'formed' than FR! But I digress.

As said before, it shouldn't be too hard to adapt the BattleRager prestige class to the game. Just make sure that your not trading levels/skills/etc into a Prestige Class that you might not need.

I was reading over the wiki (As I, sadly, lack access to the books, as of yet, curse be my current financial status), and I started to note something strange. It seems that once you get into the Plane of Air, you're suddenly able to actually Physically traverse the planes, going through air, to Water, to Earth, then to fire, finally into the Astral plane and from there to the Maelstrom and Outer Sphere. While I'm certain such a journey would be so prodigiously long that to do it as a campaign would be just about impossible, I can't help but wonder on this.

Note, I am not complaining, in fact, I find the concept that it is possible to 'traverse the planes' as it were rather interesting, like each plane is a pocket within this far far greater plane, each one 'region' different in a way that the other, smaller divisions within the 'planes' might be different from each other.

Perhaps I'm reading to much into this, or perhaps the Wiki has phrased it all wrong, but I just though I would point it out.

Wow... I feel like I'm kinda late to the party here (and not wanting to do an archive binge, I guess I really WILl be late to the party) But I just want to say that I think this is an interesting issue to bring up.

I know alot of forums where it's talked about and sort of kicked off (Sex and Sexuality in game, that is) But I've found it to be enriching to the story, and even vital in some points. I have a game I'm setting up now in which the Rogue of the party will have a Rival wich I intend to induce MUCH foe yay with. (Hoping he enjoys it, being gay himself.).

It could just be my play group, though. So far, most campaigns I've run have had at least one instance of the 'horizontal tango', including one pregancy!

Yeah... I probably sound like a total forum noob and just made a fool of myself ^^'

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