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Maerimydra wrote:
To be honest though 4E doesn't leave much room for role playing. It's not that you can't role play but the combat encounters and game mechanics take up most of your time. This isn't a bad thing though just different style of game. I used it to convince a dire lion to not eat me. I could have defeated it one on one but I'd have been worse off for it. And had the Wild Empathy failed, I'd be in the fight reguardless so why not try it and it worked. I've also used wild empathy to secure mounts, wild horse for example. I've used wild empathy to get near enough to an animal to use speak with animals. I find it quite useful. I find fighters with a ring of regeneration don't have to worry about HPs being a limit any more. A fighter should have more than enough hit points to last one encounter. By the time they hit the next encounter the ring will have them back at full hit points. So a fighter can go for as many encounters per day as they want as long as they get 10 minute break between them. The caster will eventually run out of spells. For some this may be an issue for other casters not so much. StreamOfTheSky wrote:
So as you put it though you can't really take 10 levels with out losing those 9th levels spells. But really I've yet to see a 10 level prestige class with 3/4 bab progression that is worth taking past level 8. You get really screwed for taking levels 9 and 10 it seems on every one of them. The arcane archer is a presitge a class and it shouldn't be something make or break an archer. A Full class should be better but the arcane archer has some flavor to it and can fit in some instances. If I was playing a ranger I might consider the arcane archer if I want to add some arcane casting to my character for the flavor. It's definitely not optimal though. One glaring difference is the Arcane archer can get 9th level spell. The Magus Myrmdarch gets better combat ability with weapon training, armor training, fighter feats, and ability to cast in heavier armor though. so it's really just depends what you want. Seems your build that you are pondering can be done with the arcane archer is better going this Magus archetype. The cheapest way is to pick a race with Darkvision but that doesn't always fit the concept though. Another is Impoved Eldrich Heritage with the Shadow bloodline but it cost 3 feats and you need a 15 Charisma. So you'd need Skill Focus stealth, you can take the Umbral wild blood line to get + 1/2 sorcerer level to stealth for 1 round per 2 sorcerer levels. Then at at 9th level you get Dark Vision 60' feat for feat. Next is multiclass. There are few prestige classes that give you darkvision. Shadow Dancer and Horizon Walker both do. Shadow Dancer at 2nd level so you can get it by 7th. Horizon Walker at 3rd level with Underground Dominance so you get it at 9th. There might be more. Horizon Walk is pretty go for scout, assuming you mean the Rogue Archetype Scout. You can use rogue talent to get Favored Terrians and you can get Dominance in terrian getting a FE enemy attack bonus equal to you favored terrian bonus. That's pretty nice coupled with sneak attack. Council of Thieves is great AP if you as the GM put the extra work into. My advice is read through the first book as that is where you will start but before you play read the last book. A lot stuff happens there that if know ahead of time you can set the players for success otherwise the last part just get too chaotic and you have prod you players along. If done right you can have it so the players figure it out all themselves which is much more rewarding. So no one has heard of wizards more powerful than 5th level. Keep that going, it's great. Leave that to your players to wonder why. Maybe it's a secret wizards guild that kills rival wizards before they pose a threat. Or maybe it's a dark lich who feels threatend instead of wizards guild. How about vampires who are addicted to the blood highly magical beings and wizards who exceed 5th level are just another highly sought after source. Or it could fey in the area trying to keep the balance and too much magic in the area causes problem so wizards who exceed 5th level are magically transport out of the area to some far off remote location. If you have wizard in the group, this could lead some interesting story hooks. Hunter's bond isn't that bad, it really just needs feat support. Most class features like this have a feat you can take to boost it. This one has Boon Companion for one option in the class feature. It should have a feat for you allies. I think a feat like Extra Hunters Bond that gives you 2 extra rounds would be very useful and would make this class feature much more useable. That +1 to hit and damage at 4th level can be the difference between a TWF rogue landing both sneak attacks instead of one. At 5th that jumps to +2 to hit and damage and +3 by 10th when you can use Instant Enemy to get more use out if. As well it has no limit other than how many move actions you want to spend. I'd really prefer this to be usable 3+wis times per day like bloodline and domain powers and it last till the enemy is declared is dead. cranewings wrote:
E-X is house rules anyways so just rule out iterative attacks entirely. Then you could go E8 if you wanted to. I find E8 works because Cleric domains kick in there and I'd allow feat to get level 9 blood line powers for the Sorcerer. cranewings wrote:
Much the same considering these are not modern guns, lets see the 4 years old load the thing and get proper shot off with accuracy. Last game I was playing an Anti-Paladin at 8th level using a Falcata. The wizard in group put haste on the party. So I had 3 attacks and engaged a Paladin who was level 10. The paladin used smite and moved in to attack with a standard action and missed. I retaliated with 3 attacks with smite good and power attack and fiendish boon unholy. I rolled 19,19,19 for the attacks and confirmed all three criticals. So I did 3D8+66+2D6 per attack rolling 25, 27. 20 for damage doing a grand total of 250 damage in one round. Exceeding the paladin's hit points by just over double. You make all good points and I agree with them but the rogue does fall apart in combat starting from level 13 and on. I have put tons or rogues in play during combat encounters as GM. At the high levels they are not a challenge but level 12 or under they quite effective. Also I see the same thing happen with the player who has rogue character. They end up avoiding combat at the higher levels and trying to use UMD to help the party but find themselves redundant next to the divine and arcane casters. From what I can tell is the going from 3E to PF you average APL appropriate encounter in the higher levels has high AC. For example Full Plate gives you 9 AC and the fighter has armor training. At the upper levels an Orc fighter has 3 more AC than in 3E. Now the rogue. Effectively by not giving the rogue a bonus to hit they just penalized the rogue at the higher levels. So other than this problem the rogue is great class. I'd play one for PFS for sure as the max level is 12 and the problems with the rogue won't really show up. But in high level game I'd multiclass the after 12th level. memorax wrote:
I don't mind the Hunter's Bond for companions but I wish there was feat that granted you extra rounds like Extra Hunter's Bond that grants you 2 rounds on top of you wisdom bonus. For the animal companion you Boon Companion to make equal to Druids animal companion so why not feat to help the other option of Hunter's Bond. I agree though, hunters bond doesn't really get useful till 10th level. At that point you probably have boosted you wisdom enough and you have the Instant Enemy spell. For the 6 levels before 10 the animal companion is definitely more bang for you buck. You need to be right most of the time and house rule it otherwise. I find the argument about rules loopholes has more to do with liberal interpretation of the rules which should house rules. Then the player want to keep the game like that at other tables and conflict arises. I think this takes away from the fun. Kybryn wrote:
The rogue never gets a chance to use Master Strike. The fighter can move as fast as the rogue and can mow rogue down with bow from a distance before the rogue get close. The rogue really needs concealment in this fight, they don't have it though. I find the Ranger works best for the RMA, you don't need the high Dex for TWF. I went with Str based build for my RMA using the Ranger Guide. It's pretty nasty. I have +19/+19/+14/+14 (1D8+14 19-20 x2 + 1D6) at 7Ranger/1RMA. Ranger Focus from the Guide Archetype with Weapon Specialization, strength bonus, Arcane strike and +1 swords makes for nice damage bonus. I'd consider multiclassing. There are plenty of option that will make you a better combat machine by just taking 4 levels of another class. In some case you could 12 and 8. 12 Levels of rogue gets you all you need really, then take 8 level of Vivisection (Alchemist Archetype), that really makes the rogue a lot better in combat. blackbloodtroll wrote: Avoid cleave, it's a trap feat. Cleave is great but I'd only take it as fighter so I could train it out at higher level. I find Cleave is very nice from 1st to 10th level. So I'd train it out at 12th for something else. For other classes Cleave is nice but you are stuck with it at higher levels where it not as useful. I have each player at the start of the game session roll 1D20 20 times and give the the numbers. Then when I want to have roll secretly done I'm not rolling, I just select the number a the top and cross it off using it for the check. I make not what the check was for next to the number so if a player asks after the game I can show them. ImperatorK wrote:
This actually makes a lot of sense. Only problem is tumbling by would too easy. Quantum Steve wrote:
That's just it, the fighter is not a slow moving armored hulk. Quite the opposite actually due armor training. The get full movement in Heavy armor and can increase the max dex bonus of Full Plate to 5 and the ACP of 0 (6 -1 for Masterwork, -1 trait, -4 Armor Training). This the type of class that would lunge out at you as stick you like a pig if you tried tumbling past. A fighter in Fullplate can be more manueverable that any other class in lighter form of Armor. ciretose wrote:
There is no position where the fighter can't charge. Terrain was not specified so there is nothing to block the charge, nothing to hide behind and such. This is kind of stupid set up really. No magic, no terrian, and nothing but core rule book. Add those in and you know who the winner would be? The rogue wins every time. I saw this because the rogue has hide in plain sight as the UC book based on terrian. So just make sure the rogue is in that terrian and they can hide and blast the fighter with magic till fight is over with UMD. With out magic the rogue can't win. The monk gets a lot better, Crane Style Spring Attack for example. Go ahead, ready an attack. Still that just changes the fighters tactics but the fighter will find this fight much harder to win. ImperatorK wrote:
At low level, under level 5 you will be succeeding with acrobatics about 60% of the time on average. Some encounters will be more and some will be less. Not bad for a starting character. I mean at level 1 you could have a 10 Acrobatics and at level 1. An orc has CDM of 14 so you can tumble past the orc on 4 or better or though the orc's space on 9 or better. Not bad for 1st level character. You attacks about that the same. By 5th level you can have 41(5 rnk, 3 CS, 3 Dex, 3 SF, 2 Acr, 5 Comp, +20 AM) acrobatics 1-3 times per day depending on your wisdom. I usually go with a wisdom of at least 12 if not 14 because failing will saves suck. Though I'd probably skip the Acrobatics Master talent till higher level personally. Having a 21 Acrobatics is pretty good at 5th level if you don't take the Acrobatics Master ninja talent. I think it should be hard to tumble against monsters of great size. It's much easier normal size monsters as you are not dealing with size bonus to CMD. If you want to tumble around a very old dragon then they need to be very specialized in tumbling or don't expect to pull this off. You rogue example should have max ranks in acrobatics, some magic items, some feats, and some talents to tumble against a dragon like that. So grab Acrobatics Master with a Ninja trick (requires a ki pool), get skill focus acrobatics (it's free as Half Elf so why not). Pick up the Acrobatic feat and buy some boots of Elven kind. Now you have a rogue starting with 16 Dex that has a 26 Dex. So that (18 ranks, 3 Class skill, 8 dex, 6 Skill focus, 4 Acrobatic feat, 5 boot, 20 Acrobatic master and no ACP) 64 bonus, automatically beating the dragons DC for acrobatics. All this cost you is 1 feat, a cheap magic item and a couple of rogues talents. And you want make this easier? Seems to me that Fighter wins most of the time but not all the time vs the monk. I'm guessing the fighter should win 75% of time in this contest. Once you add in the other core books (APG, UM, and UC) the fight between the fighter and monk goes to more 50/50. As for the rogue, there is nothing the rogue can do. The fighter will slaughter them. At best the rogue should just try to escape. I prefer blasting, it's fun. Sure a well place battle field control spell along with save and suck less or suck more spell it more effective but there is just something about blowing stuff up. For me though after fireball I find blasting spell lacking so it only usually level 1-10 that blasting occurs. After that blasting when don't want to waste a better spell on some minor threat. I'd say the Monk would have a chance if the other books were allowed but core only there is no way a Monk can beat the fighter. The rogue might have chance with USD but the saves are kind of low and 20th level fighter should be able to make them. The highest DC is 23 for 9th level spell on scroll. A 20th level fighter has 17 will save bonus (6 base, 4 stat, 2 feat, and 5 cloak). This could be even higher if the fighter went with more than +1 wisdom bonus with headband +6. My mistake no magic, no spells then from UMD. That really cripples rogue. The Monk is still toast though. The only problem I see with the rogue is as they get to higher level sneak attacks get harder and harder land. The problem really doesn't show up till about 12th level and on. My theory on this is that monster have higher ACs than 3.5 after for the higher CR monsters. I've noticed that the AC of monster are 1-3 points higher in Pathfinder than in 3.5. So while the rogue got lots of boosts they got no bonus to hit and now have to hit in some cases much higher ACs. Need an example? Take a Nalfeshnee, a CR 14 monster in both editions. In 3.5 it's an AC of 27 but in Pathfinder it is an AC of 29. In both games the rogue could sneak attack this monster but in Pathfinder they are -2 to hit because of the higher AC. The rogue had a hard enough time hitting the AC 27 now it is 29. This is the problem I find with rogues in Pathfinder. I've seen Save and Suck spell lead to more TPK than any other spell. There a few reasons for this. Sometimes it just the getting lucky with quick SoS spell allow them to take couple more encounters. Sometimes it leads to poor tactics the enemies take advantage of if they make their saves. Most often it's combination of the two. Flipper wrote:
I wouldn't restrict it like this, it makes the power useless. Most CR appropriate encounters have more HD than the players. Even some APL -1 encounters have more HD than the players. NPC of NPC class count as Level -2 for CR. So a CR 3 warrior is a level 5 warrior with 5 HD, that's CR +2 encounter for APL 3 party to fight 2 warrior. Even regular class levels count level -1 for CR. I wouldn't restrict this but give those with Higher HD a bonus to the save for each HD they are have more than witch. 1 still fails of course you may want to house rule that too but I'd leave it myself. Dragonamedrake wrote:
For the Barbarian take a Wild Drunken Invulerable Rager. you swap the following: Fast Movement for Raging Drunk
The Rot Grub wrote:
Ironman a caster in Golem Armor named Jarvis. Seraphimpunk wrote:
The rogue is bad comparison, it's the weakest class in the game. Try the Ninja instead. At 7th level the Ninja has 3 attacks and has 4D6 sneak attack, grab teamwork feat if you can to get 5D6 on every attack. So that's 15D6 and no critical needed. The Magus get 1 shocking grasp as part of his attack and only a critical will it exceed the sneak attack dice of a ninja. Gebby wrote:
What do you do about abilities that grant the favored class bonus, retroactively, to a Prestige Class then? Do those bonuses just cease to exist. The Red Mantis Assassin get that in the Inner Sea Magic by getting prestige in that secret society. Having many Paladin's in the games I GM over the years I play very loose and fast with the Paladin code of honor. You have to do something pretty bad to lose your powers. Personally I don't see the point of it. If you want strict code conduct that's character concept and really shouldn't be tied to class. I think that Paladin's should be just Good alignment and Anti-Paladins just evil. This give a good balance to the classes. You have Barbarians as Chaotic, Monks and Lawful, Paladins and Good, and Anti-Paladins as Evil. So that's I'm house ruling it. I don't think your character is unbalanced. Even with out Crane Style would appear to dominate in this group. The reason you came off so effective is the group. Battle Oracles and Bards both have moral bonus boosting your attacks. They both have spells that control the battle field and buff party members. As well you are playing 8th level. That's the sweet spot. I find as GM that the monk and rogue do the best at levels 8-9. Both classes tend to go from 2 to 4 attacks and encounters generally have monsters with AC that is still fairly low so they hit consistently well. If you want to see something different play this character at different level with different party composition. Try Level 14 with a Inquisitor, Ranger, and Wizard. You will find you are not dominating at all but instead you are contributing and keeping up with the party. LazarX wrote:
I live in Canada where we have -30 or colder. Exposed flesh will not freeze solid at all unless you were severely under-dressed. For frost bite to occur you need to reduce you core temperature which cuts off blood flow to you extremities like the skin in particularly around fingers and toes. If you are dressed right exposed flesh will not freeze at all. I've walked to to work, 1/2 hour walk, in -44 F with 26 mhp winds that gust up to 50 mph. I hardly notice the cold, the key is wind resistant clothing a lots of layers. My face was exposed though. I don't think there is much of an issue here. The inner sea is relative a small place compared to the whole of Glorion. There are whole contents that are not detailed where non human races would be more abundant and humans would be the minority. There could vast halfling empire in the far south. Maybe a whole different cultures of elves over the Arcadian Ocean in Arcadia. Who knows what races would be dominant on the southern polar region or on continent equivalent to Australia. As well what is East of Iobaria. There could be all kinds of stuff between the inner sea region and the dragon kingdoms. I hope they do expand on the races in those yet to published regions. I'd be very interested to see what they do with Arcadia.
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