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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber. 2,476 posts. No reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist.


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Nicos wrote:
mplindustries wrote:
Nicos wrote:
Not sure what are you talking about. In 2ed the thief were horrible damage dealers.
Backstab multiplied your damage, eventually by x4 or x5 and it was significantly easier to do because facing existed. Further, normal weapon damage was pretty limited--there was no power attack or anything, just 1d8 + a mediocre str derived bonus. And multiple attacks were fewer and came pretty late. Damage was lower overall, so Thief damage was relatively high. But again, casters were the best damage dealers by far.

BAckstab was hard to do. The enemy had to be unaware of you, it was only once per fight, you have to attack him from the back, you had to be able to reach a vital spot (like flying to back stab a giant), you can only do it with a dagger, no flat-footed, no flanking.

The multiplier was not that great. with strength 17 you only had +1 to damage.

Besides Rogue AC, saves(I think) and hit points were low.

Rogue were bad warriors.

It was easier to catch a person unaware. Hide in shadows and move silently were flat percentile rolls and no opposed perception check. Make the two rolls and your victim is unaware. As for the vital spot that was subject to GM ruling. On GM might make you fly to back stab a giant anther might let you hamstring the giant. There was not consistency. Really in the end the GM decided if back stab occurred or didn't.


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I've never played a rogue but I run enough games a GM to see the rogue in action and to see where they shine and where they fall flat.

Rogues are great off the start. 8 skill point gives them lot of skills at 1st level with +3 trained bonus where other class are doing it untrained. And extra D6 damage with sneak attack is great. Things are good and only get better. By 9th level the rogue is performing great but things do not get better. It take a while to make that slide. Usually by about 15th level the rogue is struggling.

What I notice at 15th is a few things. Skills are no longer relevant in most cases. Skill checks become trivial for all classes in most cases. It's at this level that you have ranks, feats, and magic affecting skills. Not like the rogue at 1st level when all you was skill ranks. Then there is combat, the rogue doesn't need to be the best in damage but then need to be able to at least hit with their primary attack. A lot of encounters I see in 15+ range the rogue simply can hit as their primary attack needs a 16 or better and roll of 20 on the rest of their attacks. High level encounter with some tactics, consumables and the AC just shoots out of reach for the rogue. I can as GM put encounters with weaker monsters but then magic just wipes them out in round. Then there is survivability which wouldn't be as big a problem if the rogue could hit but since they can't they are in harms way longer and take much more damage.

Now I've seen games where high level rogues have been successful too. Problem is their success relied on the other players. For example in a game where I was playing, I had a bard who's inspire courage and good hope helped the rogue hit. I worked with rogue on teamwork feats like outflank and was his flanking partner. We'd both have +9 to hit flanking. The Wizard would haste party too bring that +10. Now that roll of 16 is 6 or higher. As bard I hit about as good at the rogue too so big help to me as well.

So in all the rogue as class seems to be a good as the party supporting that rogue. No support then the rogue suffers at the high levels.


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Mythic works great but keep in mind it magnifies all the problems of high level play. So if you struggle with high level play this just makes it even harder. Another thing is single BBEG encounter don't work well as it is and mythic just makes them even easier due to action economy.

If I were to run mythic again I start with lower stats. No rolling 15 point buy maybe even 10 point buy. I'd cap it at 12th and use the slow experience progression. Between gaining level and mythic tiers there should be more than enough rewards to keep the players happy.

Wealth would be limited and magic items harder to come by. No magic shop for example and crafting items would require rare components that would send the party in search of things for them to craft with or to allow a npc to do it for them.

The world would be filled mythic creatures. Basically they wouldn't be rare but they wouldn't be obvious either.


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Corvino wrote:
You can also add in the Improved Damage Reduction rage power a couple of times. It doesn't take that much to get DR 5/- or more coupled with the Invulnerable Rager archetype.

Grab the Stalwart and Improved Stalward with Combat Expertise then take Reckless abandon rage power. At level 8 you could have DR 8/- and -5 to you AC while raging. Combat Expertise give 3 AC and -3 to hit. Stalwart turns the 3 AC into DR 3\- stackable with Barbarian. Reckless abandon gives you +3 to hit and -3 AC. Invulnerable rager at 8th has DR 4 \- so that's DR 7 \- and add you 8th level rage power of Improved Damage reduction to be DR 8 \-. At 12th with improved stalwart you'd be DR 15 \-.


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Even better than Ironhide, go with draconic blood rages and get +1 natural armor at level 3. That saves you the feat for the same +7 nat ac at 5th level.

Then go Dragon Disciple at level 6 to bring that +8, +9 at 8th level +10 at 10th level, +11 at 12th level, and finally +14 at level 15 with an amulet of natural armor +5 instead of the spell.


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The issue I have with slings is the how much they weigh. I can have one but they are heavy when I carry 20 bullet (2 sp) for them. That's 10 pounds. Sure I could use rocks 1D2 damage and pick them up as need them but the -1 to hit really hurts.


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I'd say the fighter would win every time. I just wrapped WotR and the party quashed caster with easy. It was the mythic melee oriented bad guys that caused the party a challenge even with two full casters.

It's not about who is more powerful it's about who goes first. Fighters tend to go first over wizards so the fighter wins.


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The cheapest way to get this is a by using the Magical Talent Trait.

from PRD: "Magical Talent: Either from inborn talent, the whimsy of the gods, or obsessive study of strange tomes, you have mastered the use of a cantrip. Choose a 0-level spell. You may cast that spell once per day as a spell-like ability. This spell-like ability is cast at your highest caster level gained; if you have no caster level, it functions at CL 1st. The spell-like ability's save DC is Charisma-based."

Detect Magic is a 0-level spell. The spell function at that Investigators caster level. It's only once per day though.


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I only plan my feats up to level 12+. Usually by level 12 I have all the feats I really want. As for skills I plan those out a level in advance to make it easier to level up as sometimes you end up doing that mid game. None of this is set in stone. Sometimes a game provides a reason for a better choice.


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Make him 3rd level with 9 mythic tiers. That way the bad guy would be immortal only able to be permanently killed by mythic or non mythic creature with mythic weapon creature on coup de grace or critical hit. At 9th tier of trickster and 1st level the Villian would CR 8.


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magnuskn wrote:
He ain't in book four yet, although book three should be the place where the problems are already obvious.

We just finished off book 5. Haven't had much problems yet. As the GM though I did boost a lot of the encounters as they seemed way underpowered for party 4 level 17 character with 8 mythic tiers. What's with CR 15 encounters? I mean that's easy for non mythic. They should be battling CR 20-24 as you add 1/2 their Tier to the party APL. So I boosted a lot of the encounters to that ranger and things have been great. Some of the encounters have been easy other much more challenging. In boosting the encounters I added mythic tiers to a lot bad guys and lots minions (CR:18-20). We've had few deaths in the game and many close fights.

I think book 3 things were way too easy as I was just getting used to mythic. Book 4 I experimented a bit adding templates. In book 5 I think I got it right so far. I give the players a chance to feel mythic just slaughtering bad guys but then tough fights come up.


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I'm not sure what the issue with mythic power points is. In my game we burn through them so fast you have to be careful or you run out. I mean you can spend alot in one round with a swift, move, free, immediate action that's 4 right there. If you start blowing 4 a round you run out really quick.


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I've had a lot of great fighters. I found the key was not to min max for maximum DPR. When I did min max for maximum DRP I found I had fighter that was one trick pony.


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I tried making this but I just can't find a concept that supports Astral Terrain for fighter. I mean why would I have that? Sure it's cool but how to put that into my character background?


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Done this Inquisitors. Worked quite well, made for very powerful group. Melee and ranged very good, buffs and healing covered, highly skilled, lots of utility spells.

Had a party of Desna Inquisitors traveling trade routes putting a stop to bandits.


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GeneMemeScene wrote:

I rarely find the armor proficiency feats to be worth it.

Elven Chain counts as light armor anyway, and it only results in 1 less potential AC than a Mithral Breastplate (+4 vs +5 max dex).

So you can just take Dodge instead of Medium Armor Proficiency, for better touch AC.

Don't bother with medium armor proficiency with the Mitheral Breast Plate. Take the armor master trait for -1 ACP in armor the ACP penalty for the Mitheral Breast plate is 0. So has no negative effect for not being proficient. Then get dodge for even better AC.


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Mattastrophic wrote:

If new content was designed to patch old content, it would be clearly labeled as such. But it's not. It's pretty ludicrous to say that the Core rules don't stop at the last page of the Core Rulebook.

Also, how is a player/GM supposed to know which pieces of content are "patches" and which are not? How can a "patch" be effective if we don't even know what the "patches" are?

-Matt

Maybe not patch but natural evolution or upgrade. It doesn't invalidate the old class but gives you options to use the new classes over the old class. The rogue is perfect example, a weak class but the ACG has the Slayer and the Investigator to replace the rogue with that do the rogues job much better. You can still use the rogue though but why would you if you had the ACG?


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Mythic Evil Lincoln wrote:

My concern with balance is relatively simple: at what general power level (CR) is a party of Level X and Tier Y actually in danger of losing a fight?

I know well that CR is an imperfect measure, but I still think that these numbers are helpful for generalizing.

So, I'd still appreciate the people who have experienced actual numbers telling me just how much of a bump they feel the given tiers give -- especially since it does not appear to be uniform across all tiers.

Certainly it is possible to get more accuracy than the system presented in the book. CR + 1/2 Tier is evidently not accurate at all!

I find the APL + 1/2 Tier CR works quite well. If you have and APL 9 party with 6 tiers then you have CR 11-15 to work with. There are things to avoid. Don't do a single bad guy encounters. Those are failure for non mythic characters and mythic just makes that even wore increased action economy. If you are running published game run the monster as normal but at 1/2 tier in extra bad guys to join the fight. I found that works the best.

So for example with the APL 9 party. If the adventure has a single Fire Giant, a CR 10 encounter. If they are tier 6 increase to 3 fire giants.

The 1/2 tier breaks down at higher levels. I found 1/2 +1 worked a bit better for high levels.


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kikidmonkey wrote:

As someone who is in a game where we are Lvl 9 Mythic 1, i can tell you some things

Casters can sling spells like no one's business, up to 5 times/day casters basically have a free quicken spell.

Our Paladin took display of strength, and that is just so, so, handy.

I think ALL of our melee characters took Mythic Power Attack, and THEY asked for it to be nerfed. That's how good it is.

Mythic Surge can be an absolute life saver.

*EDIT*
Also, mythic powers can grant some massive narrative bonuses, even to Martials. Even with our single rank, our GM has to have some major events happen to keep us in our place.

Currently we have to stop this fire elemental being from destroy everything in it's path, to do so, we had to find a gem that can contain/weaken/whatevswhoknowswesureashelldont the elemental, and to do that we had to find out who had it, where he hid it, join his personal guard, find the gem, and pull the person who found it back onto this plane of reality. This took place mostly over two days.

Which is good, because with what we have and can do, we can basically just ignore money. So he has to keep us...occupied.

We didn't find Mythic Power Attack to be all that powerful until we realized it was 1 minute not 1 round. I decided to keep at 1 round as that seemed to work well. 10 minutes make this insane. You can basically power attack an no penalty for every fight with martial character. Casters I find burn through their mythic power points really fast.


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Mythic works find just keep in mind it amplifies exist problems. So at low levels it not too bad and high levels all those problems of high level player 10 times those problems.


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thegreenteagamer wrote:

As far as I know, all the Adventure Paths, such as Iron Gods, are designed to where you only need the Core Rulebook and the Bestiary to play. The rest is optional. Any monsters that aren't referenced in the Bestiary are usually copied in the Adventure Path.

From what I've heard, the Technology Guide is helpful, as Iron Gods is the Sci-Fi adventure.

Any monster in the bestiaries 1-4 are just given the page number and which bestiary. So having access to all 4 bestiaries is kind of required. If you lack the book you can always use the PRD. Print out a copy if you need it or have tablet or laptop handy.


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Reckless Abandon is the only way I know and that is a Barbarian Rage power. So as RumpinRufus said 2 level of Barbarian gives they +3 to hit and +2 damage. A 3rd level Skald can get and 4th level Blood Rage can get.

Now put a Skald in the group of enemies that grants Reckless Abandon to allies with his rage song. A 3th level Skald could grant +2 to hit and +1 to damage to all his allies and at 4th that goes to +3 to hit. The enemies will be at a -3 AC though. Also the Skald can cast heroism a few twice at 4th level. So that could be a bad guy with +5 to hit. This is nice bonus to hit with out boosting the damage per hit too much.


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Ms. Pleiades wrote:

With stats like those you could gestalt with Commoner and still pull your weight, but that is neither here nor there.

I'd recommend going with the Slayer, full BAB, good reflex saves, and with the Ranger Combat Style talents, access to some bonus feats. You'll also have studied target and sneak attacks. It'll basically be like combining the best aspects of the Vanilla and Sacred Slayer inquisitors into one creamy package.

Although I have to admit there is a great appeal of going with a druid and turning into a T-rex with judgement abilities.

Also to add to that Stalwart and Evasion with 3 good saves. Be a half orc with Fate's Favored and Sacred tattoo for +2 to all saves. As well that adds to Divine Favors luck bonus to attack and damage.


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I don't see how the Paladins can help in this case. The Castle is not undefended and if the Paladins are sent they will get killed. The army would have to move through a choke point where demons would get to fight the paladins in small numbers. As well with army engaged in the fortress nothing is there to stop the other bad guys from regrouping and attacking from behind.


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I ran King Maker with 3 players with high than normal stats. It worked just find. With 3 classes you can cover things pretty even better now with Ultimate classes. I'd avoid Gestalt as it get over powered, did that with Council of Thieves with the same group. It ended up being lot more work for me as the GM to modify encounters.


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I find traps to be trivial to over come after first few level. That's probably why there aren't many traps in APs and the ones that are their typically have ways to avoid them entirely. When I run game I create I put traps in for the character who have the ability if there is no player with trap finding then I scaled traps back. They still exist but I give options to avoid the trap if the players are clever enough to find them.


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If you mean the 2nd level power Aid Allies, that is just a standard Aid Another action that works better that the +2 that it normally gives. You have to aid another in the first place for this to work.

The 8th power affect allies and you count as ally, on top of the text even says that outright.

The 15th level power. That's odd ball. You spend standard action to move and attack. Then all your allies get to move and attack so since you are your ally I guess you get to move and attack again. I suspect this is one you are talking about?


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It basically just takes time. It's 3 rounds to identify an item. You can take 20 and do it in 60 rounds. A typical Wizard probably has 18 int and spellcraft is class skill so at 1st level would have +8. So 28 at 1st level gets you pretty much any minor magic item you might come across. The DC is 15 + the item caster level. So a +1 weapon would DC 18 and wizard could do it 3 rounds taking 10.

So take your summoner, assuming 10 int. Spellcraft is a class skill so at level 3 assuming they put skill points to Spellcraft the should +6. So take 20 still should identify most everything. They just have to do it in down time. They could take chance a roll, you get 1 roll per day to identify a specific item. If it's CL 3 item they just need to roll a 12 or higher.


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I don't see any reason a time traveling AP would be a problem. All the APs that are currently out don't impact Glorian at all. For example what happens if the player failed Wrath of the Righteous. That changes a whole lot. Numeria wouldn't exist anymore, nor would Medev or Ustalav. The players success or failure never change the campaign setting. You reset to zero the next AP as if the last AP never happened. So you could time travel back in time and change what ever you want.


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666bender wrote:

our group has a bard, cleric caster-summoner, 2 kukri fighter, archer ranger and the magus. we are lvl 9.

the magus is WAY WAY better than all when combat starts.
he got amazing armor\defences (mithral breast plate, ring +2, dex based). round 1 mostly goes to mirror image.
he he doing about 90+ damage a round, with huge to hit...way more than all the rest.

it feel's useless to do anything other than heal and keep him alive.
are all magus like that?

we mostly have bard song, and haste form the bard.
having 4 attacks (1 spell through the weapon, 1 weapon, 1 bab, 1 haste).
his scimitar is +2, he mostly add shocking,flame and keen to it.
he attack with intensified shocking grasp (9d6), scimitar (1d6), flame&lighting (2d6) = 12d6 with 25% for critical (10d6 more...). add some static bonus (about 7).

than he attack again, using a swift action to add extra 4d6, so his attack is 7d6+7.

and last 2 attacks are 3d6+7 (all with crit of 25%..)

thats... like a charging cavalier but without a charge...

All I can say is what is the Ranger doing wrong. I've seen rangers do 15D6 +80 if all there attacks land when hasted and inspired. They can do this a lot more per day than the magus can do.


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If there was only 1 thing I could change I'd give the rogue a bonus to hit on Sneak Attacks. It could be that the rogue treats their BAB as full BAB when making sneak attacks, could be + 1/2 rogue level to hit on sneak attacks, +1 to hit per sneak attack dice, +1 per 2 sneak attack dice or something else. The rogue just needs that to functional at high levels. I mean at level 18 a rogue could need to roll 19 or higher hit on their primary attack in flanking position. So they are likely to miss and would be put in danger as their AC maxed out 4 levels ago and their hit point are on average 54 less than the martial character.


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I'm canceling my subscription for this AP due to one the players wanting to run this AP. So I told him I'd cancel and switch my subscription to player companions or campaign settings. So what I'm excited for is getting play instead of the being the GM for this one.


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blackbloodtroll wrote:
No DM is going to give a player that kind of money, and power, at first level.

Every GM gives the players that kind of power at first level. That starting money player have to blow on adventuring gear. A peasant will never have that kind of wealth. A peasant never has the time to train to become 1st level class of anything but commoner.

I think the problem is in western culture we have no idea what a peasant is. So we assume that peasant have a choice and can choose to be something more than what they are born into. That is not the reality yet. Though if we keep gong the way we are soon the 1% will have all the wealth and all the power leading to new form of feudalism. When that happens we won't be gaming, we will be to busy working to feed the rich.


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I have a friend who has a short sword, when you look at the thing you really can see why it's piercing. The thing was heavy and really meant to punch through armor. If you tried to slash with like a dagger it would be very cumbersome and little slow. I could see you slashing using the point but it would dangerous to do so as you'd open yourself up to attack. I'm taking that from knife fighting where you do slash, small control slashes and I can't see how you'd be able to control the short sword like that. I'm not expert though.


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We just started the book. I'm the GM and I didn't put much into exploring the maze as most things avoided the PC. I didn't see a point to throwing peons at the party. They one rounded a Balor as random and after that no one will approach them. Mythic archers are in insane.


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The Paladin should fall in this case.

The Paladin attacked a being that was not attacking him. The being even though a illusion was offering a their hand. The Paladin had the tools to detect evil, did he not use this? Why not?

The wizard in this case committed a evil act by tricking the Paladin but had the Paladin not be corrupt in the first the trick would have failed. The Paladin made assumptions that appearance reveals the heart judged other based on appearance alone. The paladin judged his lover as evil based on the appearance the illusion presented. He may not have known it was his lover but killed her regardless. This is why the Paladin should fall.

The Paladin should lose their power till they atone for their sins. This shouldn't be a hard thing. So quiet reflection and learning the lesson. Taking the route of revenge should make things worse.

The Wizard should shift towards evil for putting an innocent in harms way to teach the paladin a lesson then gloating over it. Both are now in downward spiral of revenge and really the Paladin should atone and redeem the wizard to get his powers back.

As GM I'd through some corruption demons in the background pulling strings making the slippery slope even more slick.


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Redundant abilities don't stack. For example Rage from Barbarian and Rage from the Blood Rage don't stack to give you a +8 boost to you STR and CON when raging. Fast movement doesn't stack to give you +20 to speed. Uncanny Dodge specifically says it does stack to give you improved uncanny dodge if you get it from another source.

A +1D6 sneak is not redundant so it would stack. Evasion as slayer talent doesn't stack with evasion from the rogue to give you improved evasion as that is redundant.


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Level 1-18 typically for my group as that is where most APs end. We have quite a library of 18th level Characters now we play them from time to time. Usually one off games when a player is missing.


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This spell is nice but hardly needed. It's not critical to the success of party either. It's nice, get lots of use but after about 10th it get less and less use. It's one of the spells caster fall back on when they run out 7th and 6th level spell for example because it's a good solid spell 3rd. If anything mirror image annoys me more than haste, that you a lot.


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I don't find two handed build doing double or tripple. I find two handed weapons do about equal to twf. Sword and board is twf basically other wise it's not very good. You can't keep you AC high enough to make it work.


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That 8 str is going to be a problem for you off the start. It will get better around 6th level or so. Basically once you can get mitheral armor and stat boosting item. I just played a Magus with low strength, it's a real pain at the low levels.


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To me CE is not insanity.

I take my view of Chaotic Evil from real life. You see chaotic evil in politicians for example. I'd say probably most of Walstreet is chaotic evil. These are nice enough people but if you get int their way they steamroll you legally or illegally depending on what they can get away with and which is easier. If you have something they want they figure out ways to legally or illegally to part you from it. Need an example look at what they did with people's homes after 2008. Sure there were a lot of deadbeats but they used that to manipulated foreclosures so they could steal people homes. That's Chaotic Evil and it involves politicians and banksters. When I play CE, that's the type of CE I play. My players are typically shocked at the evil my NPCs portray as I mirror real life. Typically killing the NPC just means another takes it's place. The PC realize just how futile the fight is when they take it on directly. It's sickness that runs deep in these societies. It's kind of scary because you start the good fight in the game and see the problems in real life after the game and how helpless you are.


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For me low magic is just a game where you aren't tripping over +1 sword that you just add to you bag holding full of +1 swords already and take to nearest town sell it all and buy something better.

So it doesn't have to be no magic just less of it. I've run quite a few APs and by book 4 you usually are tripping over useless magic items. So when I go low magic I make so this isn't the case. If I need a higher level bad guy in armor to have higher AC he has a oil of magic vestment. After the fight the breast plate is just a breast plate but during the fight it might be a +5 breast plate. The players will have magic items. They would gain them through quests as there wouldn't be magic shops but potions and scrolls would be avialable. Casters would rare though and you'd have to track them down. That's what low magic is to me.


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3 Goblins is a CR 1.333 round down to 1. Goblins have standard treasure. For a CR 1 encounter it is 260 GP. A single bugbear is CR 2 with standard treasure the CR 2 encounters have 550gp. The Assasin vine is CR 3 and incidental treasure which is half the amount for it's CR. CR 3 is 800 so half of that is 400 gp. Not every encounter needs to have treasure. User the WBL guidelines. For example 1 party getting to Level 2 should have about 1000 gp in treasure. So assume a party of 4 that is 4000 GP.

So you will want say 10 encounters. 2 APL -1, 3 APL =, 3 APL +1, 1 APL +2 and 1 APL +3. Throw in 2 CR 1 traps. End with a story award of XP to bring the PC to 2nd level. The APL -1 fight have no treasure as they are vermin. The APL = are 3 sets or 3 goblins, with 780 GP. The APL +1 is 3 set of 1 Bug Bear each with 1650, APL +2 is the assassin vine with 400 gp and the APL +3 is level 1 bugbear cleric with 1150 gp. Comes out to 3980 gp. That is almost the WBL for level 2 characters and the party is just over half way to level 2. So to balance thing you make some of the loot sold for 1/2 price. Stuff like masterwork weapons and armor. Then add in consumable magic items. Do this for about 1/2 that treasure. Do another adventure like this doing the same thing and players should be right on WBL guide line about 1000 GP give or take 100 gp.


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When it comes to evil eye we don't allow cackle to apply to successful saves. It never occurred to us that you should be able to use cackle on the 1 round for successful save. Now reading it by raw you could I suppose, never noticed that. We just figured the 1 round lingering effect was not a duration so it could not be applied to that.


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shepsquared wrote:

Right, so I've been playing a witch in book one of Shattered Star. I've already secured permission to rebuild my character, due to general dissatisfaction with Winter Witch and the revelation we likely won't be continuing into the second book.

As such I am faced with an important question. A few weeks ago the DM decided to nerf Evil Eye, removing the 1 round duration if they pass their Will save. Here is his rationale:

it's designed with a saving throw, as it should be, but mechanically the saving throw is completely ignored.
that's why i said it can't affect them if they pass the save
so it keeps the idea, but is not op

Is it worth playing a witch to fifth level without the Evil Eye+Cackle to ensure that my hexes will affect them, or should I rebuild my character into a wizard?
Also, is there a good way to refute my DM's logic?

There is very good way refute your GMs logic. The Inquisitor gets a class feature call Stawart. It basicall say if the Inqisitor makes a save that has reduced effect they avoid the effect entirely. This change invalidates the Inquisitor's class feature. Basically the GM is saying if you save there should never be reduced effects.


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Dreaming Psion wrote:
Malwing wrote:
I'd like to ask. When people say "low magic" do they mean Low caster power or low magic items? Do full casters make magic mundane or the abundance of magic items?

I would say that to have low magic items you'd sure as shootin' better bring down the casters with them, considering how much less casters depend on gear than everybody else.

I've run several low magic games. Caster tend to suffer, should say arcane caster suffer the most. The classes that excel are Paladin and Magi due class features that make their weapon magical.

The biggest problem with sorcerers and wizards is defenses. They lack them with out magic items. They can use spells to cover that but as soon as they do that they lack offense. Basically they burn through resource much much faster.

If you want a touch party for low magic game go with a Paladin, Magus, Inquisitor, and an arcane duelist. By level 7 everyone will have magic weapon via class features and spells.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'd think the biggest reason is arcane magic requires the stats, you need 11 or better. Then you need the training and natural ability. I'd assume that training is expensive. It cost on average 105 gold pieces if you go starting wealth. So the average commoner need the stats, the ability, and the gold.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'd go fighter for the feats. I've always wanted more feats as Paladin. There's some pretty cool stuff you pull with more feats. Like Eldrich Heritage Draconic. You Chr won't be low and you skill focus perception is always good. Weapon training stacks with smite, armor training mean you move full speed in armor and can have much higher dex bonus.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
TriOmegaZero wrote:
voska66 wrote:
So as GM feel free to add negatives or increase the DC for factors that affect the use of the skill. The base DC is just where it starts. Some skills have these modifiers already for certain situation, use them as guide. They book can't tell you every circumstance that may effect a skill. As character gets to be high level they should be able to pull off skill rolls they'd never be able to at lower level.

I think the problem here is that most people are seeing this as 'the GM is making things harder because I have a high skill'. And some people here have admitted that is their reasoning.

Good GMs will only adjust circumstances where it is warranted, while allowing players to auto-succeed on the checks that aren't extraordinary. If every situation is your speed metal concert example, it will wear thin very quickly.

Very true. You don't want to do this all the time only when the player is trying to do something extremely hard. For easy stuff auto success all the way. You also don't want to auto succeed all the time as that gets kind of boring. It's balancing act. If you have +20 or higher you should be able to auto succeed in thing that mere apprentice or struggle with while showing them what real master of the skill can do.

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