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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber. 2,353 posts. No reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist.


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A ring of Spell Spell Knowledge from the Ultimate Equipment. There is one for 1st level up to 4th level spells. You can put a spell in with DC 20 Spellcraft to teach the ring the spell. Then you can use the spell and one of you known spells. You can even put spell that aren't on the wizards/sorcerer spell list but the count a level higher. So if you have 4th level ring you can put any 4th level or lower spell on the Wizard/Sorcerer spell list or any 3rd level or lower spell from any other spell list. Want cure light? Counts a 2nd level spell and you can spontaneously cast it as known spell.

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DrDeth wrote:

Don't dump wisdom. You will rue that over and over.

Start with Fey Foundling, Power Attack.

The problem with taking weapon focus falchion, is what happens if you find a Holy Greatsword?

Extra lay on hands is good.

Then see how the campaign goes.

See- what happens if you find you need to give more healing? Or you find a cool weapon or shield? or there's lost of touch attacks (then Dodge looks good), etc.

Every table is different.

Paladin's dump stat is Wisdom. They have a Good Wil save and Divine Grace at 2nd level. At an 8 he have a +5 will save at 2nd level. That's not too shabby for 2nd level and it just goes up from there. I'd be more worried about the 10 dex and poor reflex save.

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Michael Smith 978 wrote:

Hey all. Tis me, he who asked about dodge on a paladin (I've settled on "no" for that one). I have another question: Is Weapon Focus (greatsword in this case) worth taking? Here's my initial stat block at level 1 (20 pt build).

STR- 16 (14+2 human)
DEX- 10
CON- 15
INT- 10
WIS- 8
CHA- 16

Feats- Fey Foundling, Power Attack

Base Attack- 4 (+1 class, +3 STR)

Yes, I know that this isn't min/max'ed. Yes, I know I could pick up another 2 attribute points using the Dual Talent alternate race feature. I may in the end go that way, but am leaning heavily against it at this point because I want three skills built up over the course of the build (initimidate, knowledge (religion), use magic device).

Alright, given all of that, should I consider taking weapon focus at some point, and if so, should I do it at level one in place of Power Attack? I'm not really sold on Weapon Focus, but then again, +1 never hurts to have.

Some feats I'm looking at down the road (some I'm more solid about than others:

Furious Focus
Extra Lay On Hands
Greater Mercy
Cornugon Smash (I'm making an intimidate build)
Intimidating Prowess (see above)
Great Cleave
Dazzling Display
Shatter Defenses
-Step Up Chain
-Improved Crit chain

Dual Talented isn't worth giving up a feat and skill point ever level for +1 stat bonus.

As for Weapon Focus, I never take weapon focus unless it's prereq for other feats like Weapon Specialization or Dazzling Display. Since you have Dazzling Display listed you need Weapon focus so pick up Weapon focus sometime prior to that feat. Go with Power Attack, Furious Focus at first level. That's when you get the most bang for you buck out it.

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I have a Character Ranger Guide/Red Mantis Assasin. The concept was bounty hunter that was more about bring he prey in dead for the fee. He was approached by the Red Mantis assassins with offer to work for them due to cold hearted efficiency. The Ranger Guide fit ok but now that I see the Slayer that's the class he should be. When the book come out I'm going rebuild him as Slayer RMA. Can't wait!

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K177Y C47 wrote:
Ok.. htis is actually pretty awesome... poor fighter though...

Fighter is still my go to class for tanking up. Nothing come close. Tried the Armored Hulk barbarian and it just didn't match up. I still the find the fighter suffers too few skill points and poor saves though.

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Rynjin wrote:

Honestly, it might be a losing battle. Rise of the Runelords is by FAR the easiest of the APs I've played.

Even if your archer tones it down, without heavy alterations you're not going to see a ton of change except instead of the archer killing everything, you'll see the archer killing a lot of things while the rest of the party facerolls over the rest.

I found RotRL to be one of the harder APs. If you play it with 15 pt buy it's quite difficult compared to later APs.

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I'd play a Magus in this game. I'd pretend to be a fighter and use spell covertly.

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Sounds like you players have flair for the dramatic. My players just marched a army down main street and kicked the palace doors in. They cleared the place in no time, it was a breeze.

I'd suspect nuking Pitax would make annexing them quite a bit more difficult.

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Eldmar wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:

So basically you have to change the rules to force the rogue to be useful. That is not evidence in your favor or the rogue's.

With that aside even in core you don't need a rogue. Summon an animal to set the trap off, or just use dispel magic unless the GM is trying to force you to have a rogue in the party. Traps are normally set up in their location so you just make sure you are not in the room when it goes off.

How is playing with the core book / rules changing the rules or as someone else said earlier playing a different game? All the other books are optional extras, just because they have been published doesn't mean that they 'must' be used.

As far as the summon animal suggestion - well that is great as long as you have enough of them to cover the entire adventure, because in most dungeons you shouldn't get chance to rest and recover. Also doesn't help if traps are not one time only. For example when there is an area of a 'revolving floor' trap that revolves with anyone stepping on it, dropping them into a pit and is too far to jump. Now sending your summoned critter across sets off the trap and drops to it's doom, then seconds later the lead pc walks across the trap because it is safe now right and, oh crap I am falling into a deep spike filled pit.... A rogue on the other hand could have used disable device to jam the mechanism and everyone could then walk safely across. It sounds like your gm's have no idea how to construct traps.

Anyone can take disable device and take the vagabond child trait to get a +1 trait bonus making it a class skill. Between that and spells you should be good to go.

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Ssalarn wrote:
Petty Alchemy wrote:

Oftentimes in stories, rogues take advantage of their terrain or exploit weaknesses in magic to overcome their difficulties.

See Aladdin. There's all sorts of obstacles for him to acrobatically take advantage of, he tricks Jafar into a form that the universe regulates.

This requires a story centered on him.

In Pathfinder, combat is a large part of the game, so you can't just run and expect the party to run with you and have fun. Magic doesn't really have any exploits to take advantage of. And standing, well, rogues ain't so hot at that for reasons discussed.

A rogue with a party is far more restricted in how he can deal with problems, and magic does what skills do but many times better.

This touches on another Rogue issue, what I like to call "Getting screwed by the loud clumsy oaf in full plate who just got a -4 on his Stealth check". I don't know about you, but this is an iconic Rogue moment in groups I've played in. The Rogue has had a few harrowing near death experiences after getting too far ahead of the group, so now he tries to stick with the group so he doesn't get caught in the middle of a group of enemies with his pants down. That usually ends up playing out something like this:

Cleric: *rolls Perception check, succeeds* "Hey guys, it sounds like there's a group of orcs partying just up ahead."

Rogue: "Excellent! This is our chance to get the drop on them. Stay close on my heels and we'll take these guys down before they even know what hit them." *rolls Stealth check* "Hah! 32! I'd like to see the orc who can perceive that."

GM: "Okay, since you guys are traveling in a fairly close group I'll need Stealth checks from the rest of you as well."

Dwarven Fighter: "Let's see, that's a 10 on the die, -6 for my full plate, -2 for my heavy shield, +0 for my base skill modifier... What's a 2 do for you?"

GM: "The orcs have heard your approach. As you spring from the trees they stand ready to meet...

The fighter wouldn't be that bad. For the rogue to get 32 on roll assuming a roll of would 22 bonus. Lets assume 5 from magic, 6 from Dex, 3 Class skill. So that mean 8 ranks of stealth so 8th level rogue. Now 8th level fighter with 2 levels of armor training, the armor expert trait in mitheral full plate and shield would have ACP penalty of 0. Adding shadow to the plate is fairly cheap so 10 +5 for shadow, +3 for Dex. The fighter would have 18 Stealth. Any fighter wanting ambush would have some ranks in Stealth as well if they went to expense to put shadow on their armor. This cost just over 1/2 your wealth by level to get +1 Mitheral Full plate and Shield.

Also if I were the rogue I'd kick some GP towards the fighter getting Shadow armor. I need flanking partner after all and if I can ambush with the fighter that's good for me. The cleric and wizard can use invisibility.

Of course I've seen the fighters that don't synergize well the rogue. I always try to be stealthy with my fighters as it helps the rogue big time. Gives my fighter something to do out of combat too.

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Dannorn wrote:
Ok can someone explain why they're saying Rogues have bad to-hit? I'm just not getting it, aside from not being full BAB how is a Rogues ability to hit, or to improve their to-hit, any worse than any other 3/4 BAB class?

Rogue have a bad to hit because they 3/4 BAB with no in class method of increasing their to hit bonus. Simple as that. Every other 3/4 BAB class can increase attack bonus via class feature or buff spells.

Then to make it worse most rogue builds go Two Weapon Fighting which makes sense since you have the DEX to do it and it works really well at the lower levels. At the higher levels the -2 to hit impacts you more because monster AC is much higher. Also add the fact that monster AC at the higher CRs is typically higher than they were in 3.5 and the rogue didn't get anything boost their to hit.

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The adventure has captured my attention but I'm loving the extras with the book.

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Seannoss wrote:

Fleet charge actually enables a full round attack every round in addition to that extra attack, so it should be looked at as it is the most powerful champion ability.

I would suggest using slow xp and limiting mythic tiers. I nerfed mythic power attack and removed legendary weapon and mythic vital strike.

How did you nerf mythic power attack. I nerfed it by accident, misread the rule and though you spent as swift action to make your attacks that round with no minus. We've just playing it like that and it works quite well, then I noticed it was 1 mythic power for 1 minute. Well seeing as worked great when we were doing it wrong we just kept it like that, 1 minutes seem too powerful.

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Arachnofiend wrote:
The "modern updated information" for a TWF Rogue is the Slayer. It's a class being introduced in the Advanced Class Guide (you can download the fully playable beta for free on this site) that gets sneak attack and full BAB. You're going to have a lot of trouble hitting things with a default Rogue; I'd highly recommend looking up the Slayer, it has a lower skill floor and a higher skill ceiling than the CRB Rogue and will do what you want your Rogue to do much better.

The Slayer isn't a great replacement for rogue. I'm playing one right now and find I'm more ranger like than rogue except that I have trap finding and so far very few traps in WotR. Been more than once my party turned to me to do the rogue thing only to tell them I can't. Sure I find traps and sneak attack but don't expect me to be the party face or have nifty contacts with the black market.

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What you do is bring the concept to your GM then sit down and build the Character with him. I'm a GM and I actually love that when a player has cool concept with a bit of exotic build. I'll even bend the rules here and there to make it work if doesn't break the game.

What's annoying is when a player show up the table with character like that and I have no idea what it's about. Then I'm stuck on the spot trying to find rules I know little about.

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Just an game mechanic that makes fighter a bit better in armor than other classes.

In real life I'm guess you would train in armor to use it more effectively.

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The thing with healing is it situational. It's needed but only when it's needed. So best to make sure you can do something else beside healing. I think that's what gets people rallying against healers.

I know if was to play a healer I'd make sure I was useful in other ways by going with higher str off the start and lower Wisdom that I raise with level stat increases. That way I can contribute in combat as flanker, dishing out decent damage. Nothing spectacular but pretty good if I buff up first.

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High stats do make the monk powerful but they have to be really high. Nothing a 25 point buy will do. I've seen some crazy powerful monks from when a player rolled some crazy high stats.

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I've seen an Inquisitor, Bard, and Ranger party that was insanely powerful. The buffs from the BARD on the Ranger and Inquisitor made they very very tough.

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I found mythic just meant taking more time to create encounters. I had to be more creative. As well I find changing the reward from loot to information makes the game work better. Information can be leveraged for loot. What this gets away from is kill and loot mentality. Kill and loot is ok for time but you need more to drive a story at high level and with mythic tiers.

I like to make just killing the bad guy a worse situation. Like if you scry and fry the Wizard King dictator. The replacement is that much worse and has much more support than the old dictator. Had the players played some politics and set up their own representative thing would be much better.

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Anzyr wrote:
Casters are important because they are simply put stronger then other classes. A party of Fighter/Rogue/Cavalier/Gunslinger is going to die horribly to any AP without extreme GM deus ex machina.

Not really, if you notice in an AP they always have a solution to a problem where magic is not required. Magic make things easier but an all martial party is very strong. Brute force works when you that kind of raw DPR. Healing is the only real issue I find in groups like that.

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I find the most common problem in character creation is deciding a play a class then trying to make the class fit with a concept. I'm guilty of this in particular with new classes. I find my best characters are the one were I have decided what I want my character to be then I look to the classes to see what build meets that concept.

So for example I could up with character. A seedy information broker, my character is the one people come to for information. I'm inspired by Vary's the Spider from Game of Thrones but I don't want to aristocrat and more in the shadows. With this basis I start defining what I want my character to able. He should be decent at combat as his profession requires him to defend himself but he no warrior. He should have the high presence of con man and be street smart. Quick on feet and knows when to run instead of fight. Capable of disappearing into the crowds.

With this I start looking at races, classes, archetypes, prestige class and combinations to make this concept come alive. In this case the rogue is ideal for this concept. It has the skills, the combat ability, and the rogue talents. I'd pick archetype that ditches trap finding as that's not what this concept is about. I take the half elf and swap out Adaptability for Integrated and Keen Sense for Wary. I take the Spy Archetype. I'd pick the rogue talent that help my ability to bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate. I plan for late in the Game, level 8 probably of going with the Spy Master.

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137ben wrote:
blahpers wrote:

As for brokenness, show me an RPG you can't break and I'll show you a game that isn't really an RPG.

3.5 using only the barbarian, rogue, spellthief, hexblade, marshal, ranger, scout, warlock, warmage, and fighter.

Oh, and, another one:
3.5 using only the bard, beguiler, binder, dread necromancer, duskblade, ranger, swordsage, psionic warrior, and warblade.

Are either of those 'not really RPGs'?

3.5 was severely broken when you wanted to break it. What you show above is a very good attempt at not breaking the game with examples of class selection. You can also add in house rule to do that same.

Personally I find the biggest thing that keeps games from not going sideways is use the stats the game was designed for, 15 pt buy. Then prepare as GM and learn how to challenge your players.

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What APs beyond Wrath of Righteous got to level 20. Most go to level 18, the odd on as low as level 13.

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magnuskn wrote:
The AP is actively written to discourage evil characters. I'd recommend against playing one, because you'll force the GM to rewrite the entire campaign to suit your character.

I'm half way through GMing this AP and if there was an evil Character I'd change nothing. Even if it was evil party I'd change nothing. It would make for interesting change. I'd insist the party or character be anti-demon. They need a reason to fighting against the demons after all but AP would work just fine. It would more difficult at times though.

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I go by RAW, cheat death leaves you alive stable at negative hit points. How that is explained is up the GM with help from the players but in the end the rule states you are alive.

Sounds to me that youf GM should just not allow hero points to be spent on Cheat Death instead of making up excuses why it doesn't work. Excuses when the GM is control of it doesn't really make sense. I mean you cheat death, spend your points now it's up to the GM to figure out how it plays out. The GM saying you can't because of X when the GM is the in control of X doesn't make sense.

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thenovalord wrote:

Ditch all the filler in the AP.

Make them 4 modules only
The 12 May work as an extra publication, 32 page format each time

The filler is why subscribe. I look forward to reading the content. I rarely read the adventure unless it's an adventure I plan to run.

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Alexandros Satorum wrote:
Nothing, Start enjoying being subpar like every good roleplayer. (pun option, but who knows)

This would be my vote. My reasoning is you can't really fix the rogue with out a new edition as the rogue is core book class and the APG/UC books didn't do the jobs to fix the rogue. Now with new Class coming this summer you have options to take other than the rogue.

At best you can house rule the rogue into better class. I give the rogue two good saves, reflex and players choice of will or fort set at character creation. I give a +1 to hit on sneak attacks at ever even sneak attack die, so if you 6D6 sneak attack you +3 to hit on sneak attacks.

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If you are concerned about sneak attack doing too much damage be happy you don't have barbarian with 2 handed weapon in party. They can manager 14-24 damage per attack on average and can make two attacks with Cleave situation ally and only need to roll 3-5 to hit CR appropriate encounters.

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I don't think there needs to balance. Just a classes need to relevant at all levels. They can be weaker but as long they are fun to play balance is not an issue.

You run into problems when class is not functional at all levels. To give an example a 1st level wizard in the AD&D days. They had 1 spell and that was it. They cast it and were useless the rest of adventuring day. They fixed that in PF with 0 level spells being unlimited, School powers, Arcane bond/Familiar and knowledge skills.

The rogue is only class I think that suffers in PF. At high level they lack the Attack Bonus and AC to be effective in combat. Skills by this level have become irrelevant. Trap are trivial and rarely used. They could make an 18th level rogue more effective or at least as effective at they were when they were 10 levels lower.

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Fighters don't auto hit, at level 12 a CR 15 Ancient White Dragon is level appropriate and has AC 41(using shield). A level 12 fighter assuming a 15pt buy would have a str of 23. 16 to start, + 3 from levels, +4 from a belt. With a BAB of 12, +6 for strength, +2 weapon training, +2 weapon focus, +3 magic is +25. Power attack at level 12 is -4. So the fighter would need a 20 to hit the Dragon with +21 to hit AC 41. Using Furious Focus to make that +25 gives the fight 25% chance to hit instead of 5%. Add in a few buffs and the fighter may have chance backup by the rest of the party.

Furious focus is well worth it from my experience.

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My Book 1 and 2 of the AP have fell apart and they weren't used heavily. Book 3 is holding up on though.

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Tangent101 wrote:

I disagree. Say you purchase the game Stratego. You expect to be able to play the game using the rulebook and materials in the box, without having to guess at rules or customize rules. While you CAN modify the rules to a game (like Monopoly), ultimately you should be able to play the game as-written out of the box and have the game be fun and without play issues.

The Pathfinder Core Rulebook is such a system. It is fun to play, you don't need to customize it, and while there are some issues at higher levels for the most part it is perfectly functional.

Mythic Adventures is not, from what has been reported by multiple gamers, once you hit the 3rd Tier. And given how integrated Mythic is to WotR, the module itself becomes unplayable without significant modification starting in the third book and especially the fourth and higher.

Let's take, for example, Baphomet. The adventure suggests that even 18th level characters at the 8th Mythic Tier should have troubles with Baphomet and should be encouraged to flee. Soon after the book was published, people started talking about how Baphomet was taken down in one round.

This is the big bad of that book. And Mythic groups just curbstomp him over and over and over, until people started coming up with methods of manipulating the rules and providing ways that maybe, just maybe, Baphomet could remain a threat. This includes bringing scrolls along, hitting the group with a Mythic Time Stop, twiddling his thumb for over 20 hours, and then in the last couple of minutes summoning thousands of minotaurs and the like to act as a speed-bump before he becomes a smear on the blades of the heroes.

Rasputin was a bigger threat to players in Reign of Winter than Baphomet is to Mythic heroes... despite being a much higher CR.

I'm looking that Baphomet and it looks like tough fight. I think the suggested tactics in the book make him and easy kill though. Time stop is better than imprisonment. The PCs have too high of saves with mythic powers. Better maximize the damage out put. Use Time stop to get 3 balors on his side. Let them go first while he makes use of Shape change to become a huge giant then power attack like crazy, make good use of Combat Reflexes to dish out the AOO. The party might be him quick but not before he take one or two of them with him.

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The +3 is a class feature from the class you are in that gives training and expertise particular to that class that applies those skills that are class skills. So I don't see why 10 ranks would give you that training or expertise that class that you have no levels would give.

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The way I deal with archers is:

1) I created a spell in my game called Resist arrows that works exactly like Protection from energy except applies to ranged attacks.

2) Giving bad guys deflect arrows

3) Wind spell and effects

4) Mirror image, blur, displacement

5) Using DR but clustered shot makes that much less effective. I house rule that clustered shot applies -2 to hit on all attack when you use it.

6) High amounts hit points on the bad guys. I will bend the rules here giving a bad guy max hit points from time to time.

8) High AC

7) Immunity to ranged attack with some manner to make ranged attacks effective. This is more like studying the creature to find that weak spot. This I only use on the rarest of occasions for the climatic battle with a creature they encounter before and finally figure out how to defeat.

I'm sure I'm missing a few things more that I have done.

Using wind all the time ends up in situation like this. So I mix it up a bit and leave lots of encounters for the archer to feel powerful against those with no defenses.

The thing is if I don't do this to the players when they come up against enemy archers they end up defenseless against them. I've nearly TPK a party with couple of evil Rangers with bows.

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I find the fighter slightly more MAD. You need STR, DEX, CON, INT, and WIS as fighter. In order DEX,STR,CON,WIS,INT. I go Dex highest because of armor training and the fact that I get feats and weapon training to boost damage. I'll use my level stat increase to boost STR. You want Con but Wis could be higher as you need that to avoid being controlled. You want INT for skill points for those non combat situations. CHR if you really want it only helps you with skills and you can circlet of persuasion for +3 to CHR based skill check for cheap.

For a Ranger I go higher STR and decent CON and keep Dex at 13(unless I go ranged) for dodge and put my Wisdom at 13 boosted to 14 at higher level when I can cast

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Frederic wrote:

Musashi did win many of his duels with a wooden sword its true. He invented or at least popularized his two sword style at a different stage in his long career.

At our game table we've long considered weapon weights as listed to include the appropriate belt harness scabbard etc. Combat swords are usually much lighter than replica weapons. Carbon steel is lighter.

As for swordplay, my friend took a few years of French fencing and I took a few years of Escrima so we fight with padded swords for fun. We have tried every combination of long and short swords and shields.

Actually if find both shields and off hand weapons kind of a hinderance in a one on one duel. The versatility of the free hand for switching hands, those of us lefties with ambidexterity,and doubling up at need really adds flexibility. Personally I like one handing it. Turning the body edge on to your opponent makes a much smaller target than squaring up two handed. As with knife fighting most swordblows land on the hands and arms as they are always the closest target. That is why Kendo armor has excellent helmets and padded gloves. Still the head is hard to reach if your opponent has practiced before.

I'm ambidextrous and it sucks. Sure I can use either hand for things but I'm never as good at either way as person who is right or left handed. I have to practice a lot more and never get that good. If right handed person is forced to go left handed I'm much better but not better than the left handed person.

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Rogier wrote:
I know... but I would love to use a Katana and Wakizashi

Nothing stops you from doing that. Wakizashi is light weapon and if used in you off hand the penalties are -2/-2. You only run into problem if you don't use a light weapon in you other hand. If you want to use two Katanas go with the TWF fighter archetype. At level 11 your off hand weapon is considered light and the penalties for TWF decrease by 1. So you'd be -1/-1 but you have to wait. Until that time I'd use the Wakizashi.

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The Paladin Alignment and restrictive code was there for 1E and I guess they kept it to nostalgic.

1st and 2nd Edition D&D worked differently that 3E and PF. There was point buy so you rolled stats and depending what you rolled allowed entry into a class. Better more powerful classes required higher stats and came with restrictive caveats like the Paladin Code and Alignment.

In 3E and PF I don't really get why they have these anymore. The Paladin while a tough class compared to the fighter or rogue is middle of the pack with every other class.

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Imbicatus wrote:

From the PRD section on flanking:

When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner.

From Sneak attack:

The rogue's attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target.
Flanking only happens if you are making a melee attack. If you threaten with a ranged weapon you can provide flanking for another ally engaged in melee with that target, but you can't benefit from it.

I don't read it like that. It takes two to flank and all this say is you +2 when attack with melee weapon. In order to flank you need to be able to threat.

When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner.

So you are flanking if you are the other enemy character or creature. As rogue all you need to be is flanking to get sneak attack. You don't need the +2 bonus to hit.

Now you might be able to argue that snap shot only threatens on attack of opportunity.

From PRD
While wielding a ranged weapon with which you have Weapon Focus, you threaten squares within 5 feet of you. You can make attacks of opportunity with that ranged weapon. You do not provoke attacks of opportunity when making a ranged attack as an attack of opportunity.

Seems like attack of opportunity is an example but it could be all that you can do with Snap Shot. This could be the intent of the snap shot tree as Greater Snap Shot is all about the attack of opportunity.

This make more sense than changing wording on how flanking works with the rogue to say the +2 is required.

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Seems to me by RAW you would be considered flanking but only out to 10 feet. 5' with Snap Shot and +5' more with improved snap shot. Greater just give you bonus to hit on attacks of opportunity.

To flank you need two allies who can threaten and be directly opposite each other around an enemy. If you use melee weapon you get +2 flanking bonus to hit. So as long as you can threaten and be in the right position you are flanking.

Now if you are rogue using flanking means you apply sneak attack. It doesn't matter if you get +2 to hit or not. If you use a ranged weapon you need to be with 30' as well. So seem to me that you could sneak attack with out +2 to hit at 10 feet range. You could do that for lot fewer feats with reach weapon. Going the snap shot route required a 5 feat investment and +9 BAB. So that 8th level till you do this at 5 feet and 13th at 10 feet. Not gaming breaking for sure.

Now I'm not sure what the developer commentary is that Claxon is referring to, I'm just going on what rules say the way I read it. I don't see anything ambiguous or confusing.

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I don't think this AP is broken. A broken AP is Council of Thieves. That AP just stalled in book six when my players had no clue what to do.

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Tangent101 wrote:
Minor tinkering, sure. Not whole scale rewrites of stat-blocks. Mind you, I do the rewrites anyway because I run different level characters through it than what you should, but that's just me. WotR needs a rewrite for characters as-intended.

I haven't had to rewrite stat blocks. I add to the encounters as is. If bad it room 2 seems like it would enhance the fight in room 1 then that bad joins.

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MrSin wrote:
voska66 wrote:
So you could be in small town and boost the GP limit from 5000 to 25000. This is great for selling loot. Nothing worse an item worth 10,000 gp and not being able to sell it. Now you can. Now you want to buy a the base value goes from 1000 gp to 4000 gp. That's 75% chance that any item that value or lower can be found that week including magic items. Want a belt of giant str +2, 75% chance it's there now. As well for items above the base value you 3D4 to 4D4 minor, 1D6 to 3D4 medium and now you have access to 1D6 major.
For what its worth, I think use the rules for purchasing like that may be some sort of masochistic ritual where you have to lament your lack of gear and hope the GM gives you what you need. Its also a little situational, and as you level eventually you'll just be able to teleport to a large city to get what you want, or a few even. YMMV.

We did eventually get to teleport problem was how do you teleport to place you've never been? So we traveled to a bigger city then teleported back. Even the large city, you get more there too with black market ties.

But I guess that's the original poster was getting at about neutering the rogue. If you make it too easy to get magic item and sell loot then you nullify the effect of a good rogue talent. Now you can do this to little effect game wise but then you end up with people who like the rogue complaining about how useless they feel.

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Kain Darkwind wrote:

Rogue talents are often horribly designed to be inferior to existing options. If fighters wish that feats were as potent as rage powers, rogues wish talents were as potent as feats.

Seriously, is there anyone who reads 'Steal the Story' or 'Black Market Connections' and gets excited about the possibilities for their character?

I love black market connections. I mean say you are playing RotRL. No time to craft, all the cities have limited magic items. So by having this talent you can boost a location's GP limit and Magic Items available by up to 2 sizes larger.

So you could be in small town and boost the GP limit from 5000 to 25000. This is great for selling loot. Nothing worse an item worth 10,000 gp and not being able to sell it. Now you can. Now you want to buy a the base value goes from 1000 gp to 4000 gp. That's 75% chance that any item that value or lower can be found that week including magic items. Want a belt of giant str +2, 75% chance it's there now. As well for items above the base value you 3D4 to 4D4 minor, 1D6 to 3D4 medium and now you have access to 1D6 major.

When we play RotRl we didn't have this and we had so much treasure we couldn't sell and we were loaded with gold. I mean I had +2 sword for most the game because no place had anything better and I wasn't even focused on a weapon, it just had to a two handed weapon.

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Ceres Cato wrote:

I'd say the child gets its soul after birth, with the first breath taken (sucking in the soul, basically).

Really, it makes everything easier, helps alot of people and the point of this "abortion is murder"-discussion is essentially nullified. Which is really for the best.

It's my personal thought that soul enters the body when the body is ready to recieve a soul and not before then. The body is a vessel and a soul can not reside in vessle that is not ready for it or is too damamged for it to remain. So I suspect the sould enters an new born close to birth as the body would ready then and not before then. The spirit comes earlier, that is the spiritual energies that come from all living cells. The more complex the creature the more complex the spirit. You basically have the phyical, the spiritual and the soul.

So the theory is souls go to heaven, spirits remain and break up over time to collesque with a new life. This is where re-incarnation comes from when enough fragments of the spirit of dead person form the spirit of new life. This would be the source of memories of a past life. When you have a medium talking to the dead the it's the spiritual energy that is dragged around with connections to loved ones that still live.

This just my belief though and is faith based not scientific. If science ever comes up with an answer I'd be greatly interested to see how my faith is compared to reality.

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S'mon wrote:
The NPC wrote:

As far as I understand it there is a three part process to a soul living on the material plane:

1. Forged/grown/coalescing on the positive energy plane.
2. ***
3. Born and going about their business.

Number 2 is a bit fuzzy and should be based off what your group os comfortable with.

Thanks for the reminder re souls being created on the positive energy plane, that'a useful detail when considering the morality of Hannah Velerin. I was thinking of going with a 'quickening', which I think originates from St Augustine, that the soul enters the body at a point after conception, I think he said 12 days, which to me sounds early but reasonable. So a 'morning after pill' wouldn't affect an unborn soul at all.

The morning after pill and regular birth control pills both work the same. They mask the hormone level in female body when conception occurs. So the body think conception did not occur and the embryo does not attach to the placenta instead leaves the body during menstruation. This can take up to 36 depending on the women and how the pill effects them but typically about 14 days.

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I'd suggest playing different game. I picked up the Game of Thrones RPG just for that reason, it's very low magic. Now I don't dislike magic in Pathfinder but there times when I want game with much less magic and while I can do it in Pathfinder it's a lot more work.

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I have to agree with others. If you compress feats to get rid of feat chains the power of those feats increase as since the fighter gets more feats than any other class that means they are better.

This is good theory analysis but it's never going to happen in this version of Pathfinder as it's huge core rules change. It's not just the feat chains but then you need to scale up other feats that don't have improved/greater versions. This is something that could be done as house rules or in new version of the game.

Personally I think phasing the fighter out is the better way. Sure you can play one but as the new classes do a better job of it the fighter might not see much play beyond and NPC. I think this is fine.

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Saigo Takamori wrote:

We call that playing a Rogue. Your role is not to get beside the big boss from round 1 to 5 while trying to get your sneak working. Your role is to give the final blow, or at least try to do so, and to attack the weaker one (like caster). Sure, you may pass 2-3 round to do some small distant attack or to try sneak your way behind the front line, and many will not like it... But it's what rogue do.

With a Scout, you chose when you attack, and you can get a Sneak almost every time you try. So yes, I advocate to charge an enemy that seems to be on the verge of death, and no, I don't advocate to charge a Red Dragon at full HP.

Most combats only last 1-3 rounds. If you are rogue doing little to nothing 2-3 rounds you probably aren't even going to get chance to land sneak attack. I find it better to use that great initiative that rogues tend to have to get that sneak attack in 1st round with ranged weapon as usually I'm going first before the melee guy. They move and attack and I start to move into position next round. If combat last long enough I'm taking down wounded opponents. This works great till higher level (higher that 12) when I tend to miss more as I'm not getting that +2 from flanking and flat footed opponents tend to be heavily armored with little if any dex to lose.

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