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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber. 2,677 posts. No reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist.


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What wishlist do you wish existed and why?


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TriOmegaZero wrote:
Cures are way better than channel because they get a flat bonus that is more likely to overcome the haunts HP total than a bunch of random d6 rolls. Overall, haunts are just s+@+ty mechanics, traps that rogues can't disable because f+#$ rogues.

I rarely see haunts in games. The odd time you do. I use them in my game as creepy factor not something to really hinder the party.


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I went through rise of the Rune Lords and we didn't have a cleric in the party. We did fine though. Sure there was few times when cleric would have been handy.

My character I took Oracle of Metal for 4 level to with Lame to get the immunity to fatigue. So I stocked up on wands of CLW, piles of potions and scrolls. We did pretty good. Definitely a challenge. No player character deaths but we were close many times. I think it made the game more fun.


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Being the GM is fun for me because I get to be creative when not gaming. As player my creativity ends with my Character. Once I have my character there is nothing but waiting for the next game session. As GM I can spend my time building the game. This may be enriching an Adventure Path, this most typical or building my own world and the adventures set in it.


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Gargs454 wrote:
randomwalker wrote:

Back in AD&D days, secondary skills were in addition to class skills.

With the transition to 3E, the vague profession (and craft) skills were included because not doing so would send the message that RP is less important than game mechanics.

Personally, i could easily houserule that certain background traits gave free profession skill points.

For one-shot intrigue campaigns, profession skills could also be used to find clues, infiltrate enemy cities etc. But that is extremely circumstantial.

Yeah, its kind of funny when you think about one of the bigger criticisms of 4ed was that there was no roleplaying in it (which I personally disagree with, but that's beside the point for this thread). One of the things people have pointed to in that argument is that the Rules don't do much to facilitate roleplaying. Personally, I don't think the rules in earlier editions did much of that either, unless you consider some of the broader skill choices that were there.

Back to the OP, personally I would disagree with the contention that Acrobatics, Climb and Geography can replace Profession Sailor. Sure, they can help you climb the rigging, keep from falling, and figure out just where in the sam heck you are, but they don't really teach you how to actually control the ship. Plus, you are still investing in three skills to replace one.

Skills don't add to role playing in my opinion. I'd say skills take role playing out of the game by allowing a dice roll. You can still role play and roll the skill but it's easier to roll the dice and beat the DC to say you intimate the person. No role playing required.


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MeanMutton wrote:
Neriathale wrote:

Survival skill, DC5 to butcher a dead animal

Survival skill DC10 to know that eating carnivores is generally not a good idea, and you are better off trapping a rabbit or two.

There's nothing inherently unhealthy about eating the meat of carnivores. Aligator, snake, dog, frogs, and other carnivores are eaten by humans safely. Omnivores like pigs and chickens are very common in American diet, too. Hunted bear isn't uncommon in areas of North America.

As long as you cook the meat well-done, there's no issue at all.

You don't need to cook to well done. You just need to cook to the right temperature which varies depending on the cut. So if unsure cook the crap out of it.


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Charon's Little Helper wrote:
justaworm wrote:

Try

1. Max HP on monsters
2. Adding extra monsters, no single monster encounters unless high above APL, or party is significantly out of resources
3. Ditching XP and leveling them as you feel appropriate
4. Challenging environment to encounters

These are just a few general ways to address this issue

While I agree that 2-4 can be useful, #1 is a bad idea. It only widens caster/martial issues, because it's martials who have to chew through HP, while casters generally use save vs suck/death which ignore HP.

If you really want to tweak the current monsters, you're better off adding the advanced template which also improves their saves by 2 each.

In all the game I play save vs suck/death rarely get used at higher levels. First lower level spells the save DC is too low so those don't get used. The higher level spells are much more limited resource. You might have 1 save or suck spell that works maybe 1 in 3 castings of it. I find higher level is better for battle field control, buff/debuff, utilities, and direct damage.

Max hit points on monster isn't a problem. It just burns through caster resource faster. More battle field control and between combat healing.


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Also if you play an elf or half you can take Sharp Sense for an additional +2 to perception on top of you Keen Senses.

Also you don't need to roll perception to see your target unless they are trying to hide or you are looking for fine detail on your target. Like for example you were trying to identify the target with bird shaped tattoo on their arm. You would need perception the check to identify that. You still see the target at 2400 range but unless you succeed in DC 120 check you won't know for sure but you could put an bullet in them regardless.

Just to point out at that range even the a person a -7 stealth in full plate can hide from you.


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Deadmanwalking wrote:
HWalsh wrote:
Actually they've walked back on the 15 point buy. They built them for 20.

I'm pretty sure they didn't, since the last time I saw them say it was 15 was pretty recent. Citation, please?

You might be confusing APs with PFS. PFS is built on the assumption of 20 point-buy. APs (and other modules) on the assumption of 15.

It's 20 PT according James Jacobs for NPC in Adventure paths. Maybe that's what people remember incorrectly? I think 15 pt buy is the default though James said he prefers 20 pt buy.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nrby?Do-adventure-paths-assume-20-point-buy#1

What I see in this party is some really good synergies.

I've seen Bards and Paladins do really well together. And an Inquisitor who has really good self buffs that stack with smite and inspire courage. Haven't seen a war priest or investigator in play but they look to have some good self buffs too. This party looks very offense heavy.


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Paladins are LG. So that means they need to follow that law. They don't just kill any evil they find as that would be evil and in most case unlawful. If killing a witch is legal and that witch is doing evil then apprehending the witch first for trial would what the paladin does but killing witch in self defense is fine too.

It's like police officer with warrant kicking the door to crack house down. The shooting starts and bullets fly killing drug dealers or maiming them. That's expected so shoot to kill in that threat level. Paladin is no different storming he dragon's lair.


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I'm just basic NPC so I used the basic stat array.

13, 12, 11, 10, 9, and 8.

Str 9
Dex 11
Con 13
Int 12
Wis 10
Chr 8

My con is highest due to my fast healing. I recover from injury much faster than others. So much so my co-worker have started calling me Wolverine.

I put Chr lowest as I'm not Charismatic at all.


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If you want to challenge the player, Half-elf Barbarians and Blood Ragers. Toss a higher level Inquisitor bad guy into the mix with Stawart, then even negative effects from a save have no effect.


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Vaellen wrote:

I played a witch in Kingmaker and I felt your pain. I either shut the encounter down in a couple rounds or I stood around twiddling my thumbs since everything was immune to mind-affecting.

My advice is pick spells or use magic items to round out your hexes. In fights where my hexes didn't work well, I'd buff my party.

I found the witch a rather boring character to play because as you say you pretty much do the same thing every combat.

Also, if the DM is getting a 34 on a low roll he is screwing you over. I hope that's a boss encounter. Those saves are way too high otherwise, nobody is going to beat those very often unless you are mythic.

You don't need to be mythic. You just need to be a Barbarian. A 20th Barbarian could get 34 on a low roll easy. A 20th level Barbarian is CR19 so right in the top range for challenging fight for APL 16 party. The Barbarian might even last 2 rounds.


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I'd think the reason is due the lack of races with a bonus to Str in general. Not one core race has +2 strength with +2 and -2 to another stat. That's why any strength base character is human or half-elf in almost all cases.

So the question is no where are the Strength + Int but where is the Str in general. In the Advanced Race Guide you have Orcs, Oreads, Nagji, Sulis. So with so few Str racial stats it's reasonable that the combination with Int would be next to non-existent.


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I don't see traps as free XP. It's no different than a Fighter taking out a mook with out scratch, free XP there too. Or better yet a wizard taking out 50 mooks with single spell, sure it used a resource but it's 50 mooks.


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I don't see much of difference between Vigilante the class and any other class having a dual life. Rogues for example and the problems they can bring to party when their goals go against the party. The Vigilante is just another class with more tools to keep their dual life separate. So it's all how you play the character that decides if the character can work together and class doesn't really impact that.


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Coming from GM point of view who runs fighters as bad guys, I rarely if ever have fighters full attack. I have the move lots, it keeps them alive longer and they do more damage to the party. Now that's NPC fighters who don't do as much damage so they really can not trade full attacks with the party melee specialists. That just means a dead bad guy fighter in round.

Playing fighter though I find I full attack a lot more as I have the resources to survive better than an NPC fighter with NPC stats and wealth. As well I have a party backing me up. So healing and my AC will be higher too. So full attack and less mobility works better even though I can move full speed in Full Plate.


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I3igAl wrote:

Talk to the GM. It seems he is scared you guys tear through his precious encounters too fast. A lot of GMs have this issue.

I have encountered orcs with rings of fire immunity in AD&D so the players could not clear the rooms wioth a single fireball.
I myself am guilty of cheating on saving throws in 3rd edition making save or suck spells basically unusable for PCs.

The GM has to understand, that for the players sucessfully using their abilities is part of the fun. Sometimes enemies with certain immunities to counter the PCs strength can be a unique challenge for a change, but if done all the time the game becomes pretty much a chore.

The easiest way to deal with novaish abillities like smite and challenge as a GM is more daily encounters. Either the PCs waste their precious smites to plow througth a bunch of minions and will miss them for the boss battle or they will enter the fight with the BBEG already injured.

Anyway the decision is up to the players and they will be able to use everthing they have.

The easiest way to deal with novaish abilities is to not be predictable. If you always build the dungeon with easy at the start and slowly get tougher you players will get used to it and prepare for it. Surprise them, through a tough encounter off the start. They will be reluctant to use those abilities because they think the next encounter will be harder. I'm all over the place that and players are never sure expend resource in nova. I don't consider smite a nova ability though as you get higher level you have enough smites to cover every combat. By 13th level you smite 5 per day, you'll be lucky to have 5 encounters where you can use smite.


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I played in a game where that happened. Magic still existed, you could play a Wizard but with spells no higher in level that level 2. If you cast a 3rd level spell the wizard kings detected it and sent an army of mutated monster on you. There was no surviving that. It literally was cast 3rd level spell and monsters were gated in right on top of you.

The big bad wizards also cut off access to the gods so divine spells.

In the group we had rogue, fighter, and two rangers. We be shifted to the world by crazy wizard during a teleport gone really wrong. The wizard ended up calling down the wrath and fled so we got to see just how bad it was. Being all mundane they left us alone to chase the wizard.

Later we discovered a cleric who was given a vision on restoring divine power to the world, she a cleric with 2nd level spell only and that was our quest. Turned out to be one of the best games we've ever played.


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Alzrius wrote:

So one of the rotating pool of GMs in my group has decided that he wants to run a mini-campaign when it's his turn again. For this, he's asked us all to make 18th-level characters. As soon as I heard this, I jumped on playing the wizard.

While he hasn't set out our ability score point-buy (I think it'll be 25, though), he has said that we'll have our standard WBL values, and that all first-party materials (e.g. anything published by Paizo) will be allowed.

So what I want to do is use this as a chance to run the sort of wizard that's always talked about in whenever the caster-martial disparity comes up as a topic. To that end, I wanted to ask what the best - or at least, most classic - options are out there for this. Off the top of my head, I recall the following:

Traits: Magical Lineage seems to be obvious here (though what metamagic feats are worthwhile is another matter). I'm less sold on Wayang Spellhunter, simply because I'm not at all sure what specific 3rd-level-or-below spell to pick.

Feats: Using two or more item creation feats seems like a no-brainer, what with the whole adjust their WBL upwards by 50% if they have two or more item creation feats guideline.

Spells: Traditionally, using create demiplane and astral projection in conjunction get brought up a lot. There's also greater planar ally and simulacrum (though the latter never made much sense to me, since it's at one-half the creature's Hit Dice, so in this case it'd be a 9th-level wizard). Obviously blood money is on the list.

Those are the ones that immediately come to mind; what else should I be looking at?

Depends what your wealth is. If normal WBL level, wizard. If you are 18th level naked on deserted island, Cleric is by far better.


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I don't use the nerf to Crane style. We didn't find it broken. Found bigger issue with Clustered Shot.


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I've run into this in games. It usually happens when I have interesting character and the game goes in direction that invalidates my characters.

Like I had an inquisitor that with ties to the location. I took traits, feats and such for that exact purpose. It was great at first but then adventure took us on journey's far and distant. It felt like I left half my character in the first locale. I had a decent character just lost purpose with it.

I find this less of problem with APs due to the players guide but it still happens. What I do is allow the player to retire the character and work closely with the player to create a character that will fit the adventure better. Then they tend to care more.


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Claxon wrote:

With the ability to avoid death via Raise Dead, Resurrection, and True Resurrection death is rarely permanent for members of an adventuring party and comes with little real penalty either.

Sure raise dead costs 5,000 gold and has two permanent negative levels. If you have access to Raise Dead you also have access to Restoration. Those negative levels are removed by 2 castings of Restoration and 2000 gp (and 8 days). So the price of death is 7000 gold.

But I don't like this system. I want something that makes death a bit more daunting and terrifying than just a gold sink. I also want it to be fair between martials and casters.

I've seen it suggested before that characters take a permanent (not in any way removable) penalty to con, reducing it by 1 for each death. But this penalizes melee characters more than anyone else as they are more likely to die (taking the hits all the time) and by reducing their con you make them even more likely to die.

And then there is a gold sink issue. With just gold you end up with disproportionate wealth between characters. In this game wealth is power, so I don't really care to create a wealth imbalance between characters. I also use Automatic Bonus Progression Rules to eliminate the Big Six, so it's not as bad. However the issue is still present.

What can be done to make a character death more terrifying without unfairly penalizing the characters that are more likely to die (melee).

I've thought about saying that you can only have Raised Dead, Resurrection, and True Resurrection used on you each 1 time. That way there is a hard limit on number of revivals. Though there is an increasing cost for each death that imbalances the wealth. Or possibly you can only be resurrected a number of times equal to your con modifier.

I've also considered maybe a method to encourage people to save others. For a party, having a party member die would impose a -1 penalty on all D20 rolls, all save DCs, and applies to all creatures control by the party (whether animal...

Martial characters are the least likely to die. The class I most often see die are rogues followed by wizard/sorcerers, then monks. I've never seen a fighter die in Pathfinder. Happened in 2nd edition with save or die spells though.


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Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Rhedyn wrote:

As I was puzzling over how a high level fighter could be both high level and not too DBZ/Bleach/One-Piece/Naruto shounen anime, it occurred to me that high level wizards would fit very well in those universes, sometimes as the main character.

How many GM's out there have placed the party in dire situations only for the wizard to pull some mcguffin spell out of his hat that fixes everything? How many classical fantasy struggles are just ignored by wuxia reality bending Death Note Kira wannabes?

How would you make magic sufficiently mundane but functional enough to fit better in a genre that is supposedly dominated by sword swingers?

Which genre are you talking about? If you're talking about novels and movies, the answer is all in the writing.

If you're talking about D+D and Pathfinder, you're the first to suggest that martials dominate this game.

Martial classes do dominate the game. 99% of the time if you grab any NPC in the game they will be martial class. That doesn't mean a individual martial NPC is powerful, they are powerful due to numbers though. At least they are with those new troop rules. Suddenly a mob of 100 commoners with torches and pitch forks is real threat to a wizard.


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Depends what the sun in the fantasy setting. There may be no gravity at all at the sun. Maybe it's just giant portal to the elemental plane of fire and void between planets and that portal. I don't think there is anything on what the sun is in Glorion other than it functions much like it does here.


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Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
Metal Sonic wrote:

So, I'm going to run a custom game in a homebrew setting, and I need to know some exploitable or problematic Archetypes and feats.

My actual ban list:

Feats: Calculating Mind, Leadership, Sacred Geometry

Archetypes: Master Summoner

Any more suggestions? The game should last up to 12th Level.

That is about all I can agree with on your list. The banning of 9th level casters and ending at 12 is pure laughable as you will not be dealing with 9th level spells.

I would force Players to use the Unchained Summoner if they choose that class.

I limit crafting to no more than 3 a character instead of Banning it. A GM controls crafting via, Loot (gold) and Down time allowed.

I force all my players to play the Unchained rogue just because Core rogue is so much trash and there is no mechanical reason to play a core rogue.

I ban Gunslingers both for Flavor (guns are not classic DnD fantasy) and a properly built level 12-13 Gunslinger could solo a pit fiend CR 20. Let that sink in as you come to a judgement on the class. at least you know about Touch attacks being a bit OP on a Full BaB class.

But Little Helper is right much of your ban list is PFS ban list and rules...you might want to just look into those rules.

I like ABP but Low magic setting can mean a lot of things like: Access to lots of magic items and Point buy (usually 15).

If you ban 9th level spell caster it's banning 5th and 6th level spells. So it's not laughable, it's a good choice for low magic game.


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This a game mechanic to allow encumbrance rules to work. It's not going to match up with real life. It works in the game though.


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Forever Slayer wrote:
When I ban classes that is all you need to know. Me explaining why doesn't change anything.

Sure it does. You might ban class for reason then I go make character with another class that does exactly the same thing that caused you ban the first class. Knowing why helps avoid that.

Had that happen in game once. The GM banned paladins with no explanation so I played LG cleric with Paladin like code. The code of the Paladin was why he banned the class in the first place. Once I found out I reworked my character but it wasted a hour of game time. Another time it was banned summoners. The ban turned out to be because the GM didn't want to deal with a mass of summoned creatures. Too bad the player playing the summoning focused druid didn't know that ahead of time. We all thought was because he felt the Edilon was too much trouble.


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Set wrote:

It would be neat if the ninja, monk and samurai had an alternate class feature (nothing as developed as an archetype) to swap out kama, nunchaku, katana, etc. for some non-Asian weapon proficiencies, to help hammer this concept home and encourage the idea of Garundi monks (Ouat dwarven monks!), Ustalavan (or Halfling!) ninja or Aldori (or elven!) samurai.

I had monk order in Brevoy that were Aldori dualist. The Aldori dueling sword was considered monk weapon and Aldori Dueling feat was added to their list of bonus feats.

Worked really well as Monk Archetype. They lost the monk weapons replaced by the light weapons group and added the Dueling sword to the group.


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Maybe his parents were not immune to poison as per the Advanced Race Guide Dwarf Traits Alternative racial trait. Seeing he did kill them poison that's what they must have had.


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I prefer martial classes but not the fighter. Barbarian, Rangers, Slayers, Monks, and Paladins are fun to play as you have more to your class than just full attack.

Fighters can be fun too but they definitely are not my favorite.


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I like Prestige classes from campaign point of view. I mostly use them for NPCs. Players could take them but I generally create PrC as the campaign developes. Since player usually have their character mapped out in stone from 1st to 20th these classes never get used for anything but NPCs.


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My Favorite is the Inquisitor.

A party of 2/3 casters is quite powerful. What they lack in spells they make up for in versatility. Definitely one of the more fun party's to play in. Definitely not as powerful as party with full casters and character focused on combat but more able to hold their own.


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jorunkun wrote:

Is it just our group or does nobody ever take a skill point instead of the hitpoint as their favored class goodie? Certainly all the optimization guides for every class advise to always take the extra hp. Which made me wonder:

How many skill points would it take for you to not take the extra hp? Please specify if this would depend on class or level.

My impression is, that hp are worth most at first level, and decrease in value from there on out. I'd trade my 1st level hp for four skill points, although wouldnt ever trade it for a wizard or a rogue. I could see something like 3 at 2nd, 2 at 3rd and then one for one work. How about you?

I take the skill point when I have 2 skill points, aks the fighter. I mean I can usually bring my con to 14 from 12 by not 13 INT. So it works out the same. Just if I need combat expertise I take the FC hp.


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Kazaan wrote:

When talking about age and adulthood, there are several factors to consider. There is biological adulthood which is based on puberty. Puberty begins at 10-11 for girls and 11-12 for boys and completes at 15-17 for girls and 16-17 for boys. So, by 17, a person is considered, reproductively at least, fully adult. But then there is mental development. Neuroscience has shown that, while most of your body is fully adult by 17, your brain doesn't fully "click" into an adult way of thinking until about 25. In that span between finishing puberty at about 16-17 and complete mental development at 25, you are, literally, a child in an adult's body. Lastly, there are socio-political ages like age of consent and age of majority. In the US, age of majority is 18; at 18, you are legally considered an adult. Age of consent varies from 16-18 depending on the state in which you live. Other countries slide both values up or down based on their cultures and politics.

In antiquity, a person was typically considered an adult at about 16, bringing age of majority in line, roughly, with biological adulthood. Sometimes, it was based in ritual; a boy didn't become a man until he performed a "rite of passage".

So, now with the background layed out, age ranges in Pathfinder are not very proportional. If you compare the average starting age for an intuitive class (arguably, the closest line to biological age) to average max lifespan, you find that some races are "children" for a greater portion of their life compared to others. I did the calculations a while back and found the following:

Estimated proportion of biological childhood:minimum lifespan
Human: 21%
Dwarf: 16%
Elf: 31%
Gnome: 20%
Half-Elf: 16%
Half-Orc: 23%
Halfling: 19%

Elves spend over 30% of their total age as children while Half-Elves and Dwarves have half the proportional childhood. But you also need to consider mental age. Completion of a studied class would probably, roughly, correspond with complete adult mental development. If we...

I've read that bit about brain changes at 25 too. In one article I read they referred to it as not maturing but enter a stage of old age. A developing brain doesn't mean child like though we treat as such in our culture. My ancestors were young and considered adults but back then the average life span was 36, so 25+ would be considered and old man. If you were married at 16 and had kid they would 20 by the time you were on you death bed.


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What stopped the industrial revolution from occurring prior to when it did. Archeology has shown that a lot of the things that started industrial revolution had been around for long time prior to 1400 AD.

The way I see it is those in power feared knowledge left uncontrolled would threat to their power. A good example of this is Catholic church.


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I'd like some steam punk classes.


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Have you played this character? Sure some encounters at CR 15 you might live through but Giants will kill you. I don't see this character surviving RotRL.

I tried the low AC thing with an Invulnerable Rage going for high DR. I took a beating every encounter and my hit points were higher than yours. My AC was 22 and rage plus reckless abandon dropped it to 16. Had breath of life used on me more the few times. By the end I had to stop using reckless abandon focus on my AC


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In mythic games the only time I had combats that last more than a round or two was with mythic encounters where there was more than one opponent. Not all had to mythic just one. Single BBEG don't stand a chance in a mythic game unless they too are mythic and even then it's short battle due action economy.


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I find the unchained barbarian encourages rage cycling. It's now more important to get than ever. The main reason is temp hit points. I rage and get 3 hit points per level at say 12th level, usually takes me till around levels 9-12 get rage cycling, and that is +36 temp hit points. So in the fight I get if for 30 damage. Doesn't bypass my temp hit points. Rage cycle and get 36 more next round. This is why I think the Unchained Barbarian is better. Sure I need to take move action to enter a stance but I don't have to. Not going into a stance I'm the same as the old Barbarian. All I trade for this +1 damage with two handed weapon. Then on top of that add the 2 points of DR at level 8 and 10 from Increase Damage reduction and I have DR 6/-.

The loss of Spell Sunder is unfortunate but it's something I house rule back into the game as my Witch Hunting Orc tribes use in my game. So if they have the players can have it too.

Oops, missed that 1 minute for temp hit points. That's not so bad then.


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Shimesen wrote:
Brilliant energy katana for lightsaber and the kensai archetype with a focus on force spells and enhancement arcanas.

Use the Plasma Blade form Pathfinder AP 100. That's much more like a light sabre than anything else.


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knightnday wrote:
Hitdice wrote:

Knight, this is an honest question, not snark*: is Generica, the Land of I Don't Care synonymous with Golarion, or does it also include 3pp?

I'm just curious because RDM42 mentioned published settings being treated as sacrosanct as compared to homebrew settings, but I think that sort of gets it wrong, no insult to RDM. Published settings are required to include all of said publisher's material, so I see them as a lot less sacrosanct, actually. Just using Paizo material, you can play a Clint Eastwood Man with No Name type from Alkenstar who ends up adventuring alongside an Inuyasha type party in Tian Xia, but no GM should be required to do that in a homebrew setting.

*I suppose the snark would have been directed at Paizo, not you, in any case. ;)

Ah, no, not at all. Generica -- it doesn't actually have a name -- is basically a world that I don't care about, that I've invested little if any time creating backstory for and so on.

In contrast, some of my homebrew worlds have existed for going on thirty years, with ongoing stories and plots and the like, fleshed out NPCs and family trees and all that jazz.

Generica, for lack of a better name, includes none of that. I might use Greyhawk, or Golarion, or another created and published system but more often than not it would be a very generic fantasy setting world with little work put into it. The sort where the map might be drawn on a napkin with a scale that varies depending on the day.

I don't use Generica much because most of my players are looking to continue the threads they've started or heard about in the other worlds. I use Generica when people just want to bash things without worrying overly much about story, cannot agree what they want to do (half want pirates, two others want noble intrigue, and another wants to punt goblins), or for one or two off sessions where people want to create characters they don't have to care about, or introduce new people to the mechanics and general idea of the game without...

I love the name, Generica, I run tons of games like that with out a real term how to call it. I also have games where we have setting were there is history we've created.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Imbicatus wrote:
voska66 wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:
Insain Dragoon wrote:
I didn't know Iron will gave a +6 bonus.
+2 from Iron Will and +1 from Indomitable Faith, because Monks need few feats to be good at their job. Higher WIS due to lower CON requirements than other classes - thanks to high AC and Improved Evasion - you are free to put more points into WIS too. This is the gist of the matter.
That's poor class design. You are saying that in order to be what the class should be you need spend a feat, trait and build you stats a particular way. If you have to do this it seem to me that is poor class design. You are right every umonk will be taking iron will and indomitable faith to make for this loss of good save. At that point shouldn't it just be a class feature?
My umonk didn't take Iron Will and won't be taking it. Of course, he is a Dwarf, and has a racial +2 against spells. If I take any save boosting feat it will be Steel Soul.

I might take Iron will but probably wouldn't. By saying the umonk doesn't have low will save because you can build it back in is saying the class is poorly designed. I don't think it is though. You can make perfectly fine monk with out the taking a trait and feat.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
werewolf435 wrote:

So, feel free to take this how you want, since I know it can be a rather unpopular option (for good reasons, covered in many places over many posts.)

But coming from a particular thread discussing caster/martial disparaty, one of the main complaints that I feel is being made, is that martial characters lack the ability to influence the over-arching plot in any meaningful way, since they have to specialize so heavily in smacking things in the face.

Given that, I was thinking of putting up using leadership as something of a way to make up for it.

In this way, the level 10 fighter can throw around the weight of his organization to get his party in to see the king, rather than standing around while the party sorcerer baps him/herself with a few +cha spells and sweet talks the guards into letting them in.

It gives the fighter (using fighter only as an example) an interesting way to interact with the world through attempting to build the relevance of his given organization (whatever that may be) and also gets him some levels of fame, and social clout.
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What do you guys think?

I give out the leadership for free in my to Fighters and Rogue if they build a strong hold. It's something I remember from 2E and AD&D that I liked. Leadership allows for it but few take it. Other classes get couple of apprentices and that's it. Leadership can be still taken as feat. In the case of the fighter and rogue they get a second cohort.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Secret Wizard wrote:
Insain Dragoon wrote:
I didn't know Iron will gave a +6 bonus.
+2 from Iron Will and +1 from Indomitable Faith, because Monks need few feats to be good at their job. Higher WIS due to lower CON requirements than other classes - thanks to high AC and Improved Evasion - you are free to put more points into WIS too. This is the gist of the matter.

That's poor class design. You are saying that in order to be what the class should be you need spend a feat, trait and build you stats a particular way. If you have to do this it seem to me that is poor class design. You are right every umonk will be taking iron will and indomitable faith to make for this loss of good save. At that point shouldn't it just be a class feature?

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