Shag Solomon

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Organized Play Member. 132 posts (3,098 including aliases). No reviews. 1 list. No wishlists. 13 Organized Play characters. 14 aliases.



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Sean K Reynolds wrote:

Arae, I was specifically referring to Markolius's statement, "I was hoping for new mechanics or a big twist on old mechanics," which implies there aren't any new mechanics or twists on old mechanics, or that he was expecting classes that are totally new... but that's not what we promised or planned for this book.

These classes do take features of two existing classes and integrate them into a new cohesive whole. If you're disappointed with the results, playtest a class or two, report back, and tell us how you think the play experience can be improved for them.

I think some of the hesitancy on the boards is about a high degree of complexity. There are a lot of new mechanics, with a lot of questions about interaction with existing mechanics. Much of it feels cluttered, without broad, cross-cutting ways of integrating, or much commonality.

I recognize the amount of effort that has gone in, and there are some diamonds - arcanist casting style, inspiration, bloodrager bloodlines. A lot of it feels like a disunited pile of features - warpriest blessings, swashbuckler deeds.

The kind of mechanical innovations that might be more integrative might include a single mechanism for warpriest blessings, rogue talents, ninja talents, ranger traps, swashbuckler deeds, and perhaps a few other things. Allow overlap between the lists. Allow feats or archetype class features to extend access - sanctified rogue with access to warpriest blessings? clever swashbuckler with access to ranger traps?

A unification/alignment of ki points, inspiration points, and blood points, possibly incorporating bardic rounds per day and rage round per day into a clear mechanic could be a positive contribution. Particularly if the way the mechanic is specified in class lists, and clear ways to stack, bump with feats/talents/traits, and potentially cross over in hybrid classes, was specified and expressed.

I was looking for clean, crosscutting mechanics. I was hoping for hybrid classes that are not easily achieved by archetypes, with specific flavor features.

Sean has stated in another thread that the outlines for ACG, 10 hybrid classes, August release, etc. are signed off, approved, locked. Part of what I'm hearing from the boards is that many folks - motivated and interested enough to participate in the boards on this playtest - are more devoted to the quality of the product and the integrity of the system than with the corporate internal commitments. I'm a software program manager, I understand deadline pressures, and the difficulties in falling back for a rethink. The feedback from the boards - particularly in which folks are providing specific reasoning and examples - may be a flag to consider such a rethink.


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Rogue Eidolon wrote:
He mentioned that playtesting the Skald and Hunter, we will hardly see any of the actual new class abilities until level 3 (since Hunter is basically just a druid until then and Skald doesn't get the Rage powers). In that vein, I agree, and I think PFS playtests of those classes will not be as useful in differentiating the classes from core choices until higher level, unfortunately. It's probably unlikely that any but the most avid players will actually level up their PFS characters high enough by the end of the playtest period to give feedback about the unique abilities.

As a note, this is from a playtest report in the ACG. They playtested ACG classes in First Steps.

Just sayin' :)


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Personally, I'm a bit appalled at the number of new mechanics. Warpriest bleesing things, shaman spirits, bloodrager bloodline redefinition, blood focus points, etc. etc. Vast vast amounts of trivia attempting to be creative interpretations of straight mashups.

I don't want to be disrespectful of the effort - I see the hard work and thought that have gone into these, and the consideration for balance.

I don't think I agree with the direction. There are now quite a number of tailoring and variation features in the system - a breadth of existing core classes, archetype variations, prestige classes, and muliclassing. This proliferation of hybrid base classes feels like bloat.

I'd far rather see the core classes redesigned with cleanly 'pluggable' features, and a set of archetypes that cleanly 'hybridize' the classes from either direction - rather than magus, fighter-- w/ light spellcasting (c.f. myrmidarch, kensai), and wizard light w/ combat survivability (c.f. arcane archer, eldritch knight). There ought to be an underlying sensibility and systemization to this - visible only in the design studio. Each of the product classes and archetypes should be fully supported, fleshed out, and 'thematic'. Many of the 'pluggable' class features should be unique to the base class or archetype - ninja-only and rogue-only advanced abilities are a good example.

In the end, I'd be much happier to see this product evolve into 10 thorough, clean, and non-bloat-ey archetype variations on core classes that express hybrids of base classes.


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Rysky wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
Mikaze wrote:

Just saw the celestial bloodrager.

:)
Ah pity, ran out of space. Gotta remove that one for the Verdant bloodline. :p
Meh I got Jipped on that one, every time I get angry I just turn into a bush. An angry bush. But still just a bush.

capstone level 20 power - burning bush.


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Rysky wrote:

I see this scenario happening a lot though:

GM: So what are you playing?
Player: A Human Slayer.
GM: Okay so what does you character have against humans?
Player: Huh? Nothing?
GM: ... then why is he going around slaying them?
Player: He's not.
GM: You just said you're playing a Human. Slayer.
Player: Slayer is the class! Im playing a Human who is a Slayer.
GM: ... oh.

New meaning to "Buffy, the vampire slayer". Or was that Dhampyr Slayer?


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First prestige class question - does Dragon Disciple bloodline stacking apply to bloodrager bloodline level? I'm guessing the answer is yes. This may even be the specific reason that the bloodrager special is specifically called 'bloodline'.

Grand Lodge

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Belated Happy Halloween All!!
- the Ghost of PFS Characters Deceased!

Grand Lodge

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female (HP 10/10 | AC 17 | T 13 | FF 14 | CMD 16 | F +2 | R +6 | W +1 | Init +6 | Per +7) elf rogue 1

To Grundle, "Oh! So you already came dressed for the party!"

Shadow Lodge

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Current Map

PFS game associated with Online Gamesday. External registration.
Current Map


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male (Str 6 | Dex 5 | Tou 5 | Per 7 | Will 7 | Cha 6 | Ph 7 - Sp 9 - Soc 7 | Unc 34 - Dea 43 - 11 | RT 3 @ 7) dwarf tailor

<spoiler=kiranov> stuff </spoiler>


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F (HP 7/7 | AC 12 | T 12 | FF 10 | CMD 12 | F +1 | R +2 | W +3 | Init +2 | Per +6) Human (Chelaxian) Witch (Hedge Witch) 1

excellent - the threads have actually bound together under the campaign! hurrah!

@shannon - :) lookin' good!


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Wow - reading the other submissions, I've been very very gentle with dear Ronwn. I think I may have to burn down the fen, just to keep up with everyone else's level of angst. :)