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the issue with magus is that,it deals much better damage but you lose out on a very powerful spells only available to wizards/sorcerers. i like the kipool because it adds extra versatility to the character, and since i have so few spells to toss out the invisibiliy as a swift action and not needing to spend points in umd for spells like Protection from Energy, Communal and other spells.
Flavor and mechanics should go hand and hand. What your character can do matters, not the name of their class and feats. You can be a ninja without having levels in the ninja class just as a wizard can be an alchemist without alchemist levels. A magus or alchemist sounds more like your type of ninja.
i did think about the magus first, but the spell list is terrible. this character is going to be an electromancer. basically uses electric based attacks with a few great utility spells.
im trying my hardest to make a ninja scrolls-esc ninja, naruto, bleach, ect... now the standard ninja is ok for this, but i feel like having sorcerer levels would be a better representation for the charcter.
the few good ninja abilities are invisibility, mirror image, and smoke bomb, but after that its not very impressive. so i though how can i add in sorcerer levels without sucking terribly at my physical stats.
the best i have came up with so far is ninja 2/crossblooded sorcerer 1/fighter1/into ek with the sla from assimar.
it doesnt look like a ninja on paper at all, but it kinda fills the role i wanted, i have my ki pool, 4th level spells at 12th level with a caster level of 8, and a bab of 10. good enough for cooking mooks with aoe spells and strong enough to get my intensified shocking grasps for 10d6 + 20 no save (orc and blue dragon bloodlines). my spell pen would be 12, not great but not terrible. my only issue is that it doesnt feel like the type of character i would want to play on paper, but it fills the concept almost precisely how i wanted it to play.
so how do you feel about taking class levels and PrC's that, in terms of flavor, have nothing to do with your concept. playing a fighter and calling it a rogue for instance
as a gm i disagree with this. having access to magic items that can destroy world give me the creativity to make my world how i wish. ive made worlds where no magic exsists, with the exception of spell casters, and ive made ebberon type worlds that have magic powered coffee machines.
as a gm you get to decided what players get, and then you adjust the world according to those changes. balors get less attack less ac etc... now they are inline with what i want the players at level 20 to do. its more work for me, but i get to do what i want as a result.
now if they didnt have +6 to dex stat mods, the game wouldnt be able to be increased easily, to what i the gm want it to be.
i believe in the concept of excessive EVERYTHING then tone it back to where i want it. come to think of it, thats exactly what the PFS did.
now for what the topic asks... yes one check for making a magic item is to easy, it should be a check for every 8 hours of work like in 3.5.
he does the same thing to monks and barbarians. if you do something that goes against your alignment he will eventually make you change it. pathfinder isnt so bad unless you're playing a paladin, back in 3.5 it was horrible. admittedly this is the first time ive seen it since we've changed to pathfinder.
Execution, or rather a merciful death, is not an evil act in my eyes, but ask your DM.
thats the problem, he did this to test my ability to RP a paladin. his mentality is " ive never had a paladin make it in my games" so i know he did this to test me. i chose to give him the death of what a evil race would deserve (role playing) he smiled, wrote something down and said "so what do you guys do next".
now my paranoid ass is thiking hes doing an alignment point system, i didnt lose my pally levels so im thinking hes going to slowly change my class over time.
i already have the scroll of atonement ready to go with umd lol.
i agree with you, except im playing an oath of vengence paladin. they are extremeist pallys that have a high rate of conversion to a "blackguard". role playing one is harder then a normal pally.
ok so here is a question for everyone. im playing an oath of vengence paladin. im play in the pathfinder world and i am fighting gobblins. one of the goblins drops his sword and surrenders to me.
here is my issue. im in a part of the world that treats gobblins as a kill on sight nuisance. by the laws of the area im fully justified in killing it anyway, but ignoring a plea for mercy, especially against an unarmed sentient being, would be an evil act.
so what the hell do i do with him?
tie him up and leave him for dead?
carry him around like a child on a leash until i make it back to town to have the city guard run over and slaughter him, and do i sit back and watch as he pleads for help from me?
do i give him a slap on the wrist, and say bad gobblin dont do it again and let him go?
or do i take the point against my alignment, potentially, to give some speech and execute him?
im up against the wall on this one. so many factors to concider, and i may lose my paladin levels if i choose wrong.
for what its worth im a paladin of Iomedae.
Mathwei ap Niall wrote:
first off let me squash someones inability to read my post.
@ Mathwei ap Niall: i never said he could... it was an alternate suggestion to the suggestion i mentioned about an unarmed hexcrafter.
now once you hit tenth level on your magus, you could punch someone in the face with your hex and encase them in ice for ten rounds... thats badass if you ask me.
Michael Foster 989 wrote:
why in gods name would you waste that many resources for 2d6 damage?
Michael Foster 989 wrote:
School evocation [electricity]; Level magus 1, sorcerer/wizard 1
CASTINGCasting Time 1 standard action
DESCRIPTIONYour successful melee touch attack deals 1d6 points of electricity damage per caster level (maximum 5d6). When delivering the jolt, you gain a +3 bonus on attack rolls if the opponent is wearing metal armor (or is carrying a metal weapon or is made of metal).
i dont think you and i are talking about the same spell then, shocking grasp caps at caster level 5,so the fastest you can get a CL5 is at level 5. the earliest you can take this meta magic feat and benefit from it is at 7th.
and to clerify something to the op, a dex build is still better then a strength build with just the CRB, APG, UM and UC.
i just want to point out, that you can actually fight as well as a twf fighter, actually better until they get double slice.
so now the on thing that your maus can do very well, is cast shield (+4) ac, chain shirt (+4) and dex (up to +5) and have a better ac then a fighter. you can actually tank as a magus. will spells like hold person, hideous laughter, etc.. you wil be able to control the battle field.
you dont NEED to use spell combat, its just a cool feature that you can use if you want to. i mean s!++ roll with a great sword. you can cast your spell move into position smack them up side the head with a spell+2d6+ 1.5 strength,
shoot multi class into fighter and take 2 handed fighter for over hand chop. make that your build. cast move chop, cast move chop, cast move chop. it would be a huge chunk of damage. at a 20+ ac at level 5
STR Ranger wrote:
Problem with hex strike is need improved unarmed strike and amulet of mighty fists.
no you dont, greater magic weapon** + permancy. the punch is a set up for the free hex. that sets up your next round for a full attack with you 15-20 crit weapon.
oh and if you're concerned about a lack of damage, the shockin grasp makes up for the movement +d4 unarmed strike.
thank you all, i dont think i know of a way to do this, without multiclassing, with pathfinder only. but im crossing my fingers for improved version of alchemists arrows in UEG comming out soon.
my advice for you is, get chain shirt with shield(spell) at level 1.
get your dex up as high as you can.
take magical lineage(shocking grasp) then at level 7 take the meta magic feat intensify spell.
screw taking concentration based boosters.
up grade your armor to the best you can wear as often as possible.
use a high crit range weapon, and improved crit feats the deeper you get into levels.
i would personally take hexcrafter magus with the feat improved unarmed strike with hex strike. how this buildworks is, you punch someone in the face as your fist attack, deal damage, hex them, then spell strike shocking grasp through a 15-20 threat range weapon making your 10d6 shocking grasp have a 25% chance to turn into a 20d6 shocking grasp. at 12th if you confirm the crit, as a swift action you can toss a new 10 d6 shocking grasp, or of you're very lucky a 20d6 shocking grasp lol. the hex lowers their ac by 4 for one round on a failure making the threat confirmation have a higher chance of success.
its pretty nasty and with magical lineage it makes your shocking graps a level 1 spell that can hit for 10d6 at tenth level. i also love dispelling strike, which can be used in conjunction with hexstrike leting you dispell an ac buff off of the target, or what ever is available.
Azoun The Sage wrote:
Actually my group had a clever plan, scrolls of explosive rune rolled around an arrow shaft...archer fires and hits target, then mage casts Dispel Magic. Of course in my case the archer missed the target...lol.
i was going to do that but my gm was going to impose very high penalties to hit.
Splintercloud arrows, or levels in alchemist.
i completely for got about that, unfortunately it wont work for this character.
i had no clue the term "retcon" even exsisted before these issues with monks poped up. and personally i think its a very moronic term, no offence intended to anyone who used it.
for the first time ever im going to make a character to be used in conjunction with another players character. we are going to play a ninja and samurai duet from the same clan. here is what i have so far.
both will be taking atleast 1 level of oracle, the ninja will have defness, and the samurai will have toungs. we will both take the waves revilation, using mist spells is our backbone for this strategy.
the ninja (me)
ninja tricks are
2: flurry of stars
at 12th level my character will toss... 7 stars with a massive -6 to the primary and more as it goes deeper into the full attack action. but i figure in application i would be able to net a +9 bab+9 dex+flat footed -6. each star hits for 4d6. that would be respectable damage for a non optimized character.
i can choose to go instead with a more traditional ranged character, with a short bow and hit for 4 attacks @ 8d6+ str+ feats. but that seems boring.
so if anyone has any comments,feats, magic items or questions please i would appreciate the help. honestly ive played one rogue in dnd so im not to familiar with good feats for them.
i would buy a revamp to the CRB in a heart beat, assuming they add in the necessary eratta to other books.
Bill Dunn wrote:
as someone who boxes, i can tell you this is wrong. in fighting, boxing in perticular, you can throw 5 quick jabs as a "combo", even though its all with one fist.
If your player gives you 'My first swing is a 24, my next is a 17, my next is a 17,' he will give that to you regardless of whether you inflict this ruling on him, and if a player gives you a juicy description of how he's attacking, he'll do it whether he's flurrying with one weapon or two. No mechanic can magically make players more descriptive.
i chuckled at this.
Turin the Mad wrote:
its one reason why the gave rogues access to level 0 spells as a rogue talent. detect magic means auto success on magical traps.
no the rules i posted were from the grapple combat maneuver discription from the CRB (actually d20pfsrd.com) all maneuver master would accomplish is allowing a "free" action maneuver instead of a standard. everything else function according to the rules of grapple.
and since this was the origional question:
the answer is
3 is wrong. you may not have a full attack action while grappeling UNLESS you are the person being grappled.
and your revised 2 would also not work.
it would have to be somthing like
level 1 monk (MM)
main attack+TWF then grapple last. because once you make that grapple check the remainder of your attacks end as a result of the rules for grppling.
here is the wording for grapple and what action you are allowed to take while grappling,
the remaining attacks end once the grapple is established. but as i said before, you can choose when to grapple which would have to be at the end of the flurry of maneuvers.
ninjas of the hidden mist enough said.... oh wait not enough said damn. ok so here we go you get a reach weapon or just become large. take one level of oracle for water sight and the ability to cast obscuring mist. stand 10 feet away and enjoy sneak attacks all day long. for a one level dip its very nice and with umd you can cast a seemingly infinite supply of obscuring mists or upgrade to larger mist spells. even go so far as to create an item of continuous obscuring mist for 4k a bottle with a stopper in it worn as a necklace would be fun. upon uncorking the bottle its magical effect produces the fog everywhere you travel. blend this into everything else you want to do.
this character is bad ass, i just used it for the first time in a home game, i went with a bow build and snipers goggles. it did so much damage , it was awesome. the flavor is what really got me in the mood for the character.
ninja scrolls for the win.
because it states to do anything in a grapple requires a standard action, greater grapple only goes into effect after using a standard action to initiate the grapple (normally). even though a maneuver master can use the grapple at any time during the full attack, once the grapple is confirmed, at that point all other attacks stop unless you maintain the grapple as a move action, assuming you have Greater Grapple, then you get to auto damage the target as a move action.
a tetori benefits more from grappling, duh, while a maneuver master benefits more from trip/disarm/sunder AND MOST OF ALL dirty trick.
once a grapple is established your full attack stops, wierd but grapple maneuver has very specific things you can do and a full attack is not one of them, unless you are grappled then you can full attack.
because barbarians and paladins have better class features then a monk, and comparing a pally to a monk is like comparing cinderella, after the ball, to her ugly step sister.
if i used a pally as an example for why monks suck, i would have more fuel for the fire.
i compare a fighter to a monk because a fighter honestly has no true class feature other then bonus feats, and ironically with this rueling about FOB being TWF they have the same number of feats total.
**well let me change that **
combat reflexes can help you as a tetori because you can AOO while in a grapple. now how often will you use it? not very.
i personally would push bodyshield to 11, and take jawbreaker as my 7th level feat. the reason why is because jawbreaker removes the mouth from the equation. that means animals aberations undead anything that could bite you is now lacking a mouth. i used it, and i loved it.
instead of combat reflexes i may use dodge, weapon finesse, agile maneuvers, but i dont know your build or what stats you have rolled/purchased.
i found my tetori so here is my monkey man grappler
i found out that chokehold is a grabage feat, the rules for holding your breath means that a wizzard with a 10 con can hold there breath for up to 30 round if they roll well. after 3 rounds your just wasting time.
similar build, but i decided not to go with the turtle feats. i like to be more agressive and not wait for them to miss me for a free grapple.
one thing i must suggest to you that can make your life easier at later levels...
Qinggong Monk swap out one of your abilities for true strike, then take quicken spell like ability true strike ASAP!! you will not be able to grapple things easily at 12-20. it just gets herder and harder. seeing as though they dont have awesome grapple enchants and what not to add to your grapple checks you only have true strike.
if you have a wizard artificer (crafter) then the game gets very easy very quickly. this i agree with. but its when the entire party can beat cr APL+5 encounters because of it, that it gets annoying.
the official post stated that they will make it so zen archer will work as intended, but as of right now it does not work.
no, althought that is one option, a player should not be immune to features in the game that are there for the purpose of countering these atributes. they also have counters to prevent those counters. a gm should not go out of his way to "ruin" a players game time, but every player should be prepared to have there stuff sundered, disarmed, stolen, melted, disintergrated etc..
never should it happen on a regular basis, but i most likly should happen once.
Snow Crash wrote:
The other players are starting to catch up quite well. The archer is a killing machine (another problem I need to counter) he has no AC but deals massive amounts of damage pretty much ignores cover etc all the usual archer buffs. The Druid is finally coming into his own and can deal some massive damage when shape shifted but again no AC and goes down fairly quickly when engaged. Spell caster is begining to hold his own now and has a decent AC (for a caster that is). The two other characters need a little work perhaps. Its just the massive AC that seems to have me stumped.
archers are negated by first level spells, thats why it kinda sucks to play an archer sometimes. obscuring mist, darkness, all wall spells, invisibility, so many more will take an archer out of the fight. so you should have no issues controlling how much damage he tosses out. i dont know his build so i can say specifics, but ranges are so awesome at damage because they are so vulnerable.
a tenth level tetori would shut the ring down. FYI
and most likly knock the pallys teeth out in the process.
and dont feel bad about sundering a pallys armor:
School transmutation; Level cleric/oracle 2, sorcerer/wizard 2
EFFECTRange close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
DESCRIPTIONThis spell functions as mending, except that it repairs 1d6 points of damage per level when cast on a construct creature (maximum 5d6).
Make whole can fix destroyed magic items (at 0 hit points or less), and restores the magic properties of the item if your caster level is at least twice that of the item. Items with charges (such as wands) and single-use items (such as potions and scrolls) cannot be repaired in this way. When make whole is used on a construct creature, the spell bypasses any immunity to magic as if the spell did not allow spell resistance.
rust monsters, sunder, acid baths all can be fixed with this spell. UNLESS you completely dissolve the armor into nothingness.
"Hey, Steve. It is really cool that you managed to bump you AC so high, but now, with the disparity between your character and your fellow party members, I'm having a bit of trouble designing varied and appropriate difficulty encounters; they'll either be too easy for you and you'll be bored, or too hard for the others and they will get frustrated. I don't want to have to resort to tricks to damage you regularly that bypass your AC and ruin all of the work that you've done on your character, would you mind doing a slight rebuild or modification to tone it back some? I'd appreciate it a lot."
as both a player and a gm this is my favorite choice you can make. i do this all the time, well not ALL the time. i make a character optimize it within my concept, then play it. i usually build better characters then the rest of the people i play with, because i can almost memorize the books feats and class features.
every time i make a new character, i sit down with my gm. then i explain everything my character is going to do and how he works. i come here to make sure they are legal and im not breaking any rules when i do it. then we discuss weather or not i should tone it down or not.
The monk is only weak if the gm picks enemies that make it week. Run a city intrigue game with a touch of Japanese / Chinese culture and watch the monk be the best class.
why does it have to have japanese or chinese culture in it? monks are not fu man choo like they were in 3.5, now they can be bar room brawlers, and thugs with a moral code.
that was the biggest BOON in pathfinder to the monk. getting rid of the stupid chinese kung fu movie lore and lettin you play it as a martial artist, not just the archetype, that can have what ever backround you want it to have.
sorry this is a big pet peeve with the 3.5 monk and i tend to get heated over it some times ... sorry
touch spells, spells in general, swarms, brilliant energy weapons(becareful with this one, dont want to give PC's too much money), if its magic based, like generic enchants magic items ect.. then anti magic field/dispell/greater dispell magic, cmb/cmd maneuvers (tetori monks are very nice for taking fighter types out), then stacking penelties on top of eachother like bestow greater curse,tripping,and then flanking + grapple... <--- this would nuke his ac to almost nothing lol.
Perhaps you should take a look at Treantmonk's guide to the Monk before jumping the gun like that. With FoB treating your monk levels as your BAB and Maneuver Training treating your monk level as your BAB for CMB, the monk is a full BAB Class where it counts. And let's face it, NO CLASS has a better AC than a properly built Fighter(Paladin excepted, but only when Smiting Evil). Also Power Attack+FoB=quite a bit of Damage without having double slice OR two weapon rend.
how exactly did i jump the gun? everything i posted is true, and yes a twf fighter will sevearly out dps a monk, and have feats to boot. once the UM came out i thought that changed, but i was wrong since this clerification came out.
at what point did i mention cmb/cmd? nothing has a better cmd then a monk, that is there one clame to fame. but then again you can argue that since lore warden came out.
and no they dont have a full bab when it counts, they dont qualify for feats unless they are monk feats, or for up to 4 levels after a real full bab class would qualify. also if you have to move it needs to be finished off with a trip, disarm, or a grapple because you wont have that full bab otherwise.
Check out the garrote. Suffocation is deadly at any level.
if you have 32 rounds to wait for them to stop holding their breath, then about 10-20 more depending on how well they roll >> sorry i had a really bad time with the feat chokehold on my tetori.
i just want to point out that the developers, most likely, hate these thread digressions that turn into a flame fest of accusations and insults.
in 3 different rule threads, in the last week, have erupted into inane flame fests and unnecessary arguments.
maybe if you guys calm down, stop having pissing contests in threads, and be patient we may see answers to these issues sooner.
So would an archer be better than playing a crossbowman?
an archer would be less of a feat investment. with a heavy cross bow you would need i think 3 more feats to make it work then improved crit + those feats. so its more personal prefrence, then better.
i like bows over cross bows, so i usually go the bow rout.
they said that as of right now, zen archer does not work with the current interpretation of flurry of blows. it will be errata'd so that it will work, but right now all zen archers have to be put on hold from being played, or they only get their BAB based attacks and have to use the FOB attacks with melee strikes, which they cant do. but it will get fixed soon so...
how do class features differ from feats
as far as rangers go, the only reason to play a ranger over a fighter is if you know what you will be fighting in the adventure. for instance if its an undead heavy campaign, that favored enemy bonus is looking very sexy, but in a normal game... its hit or miss.
also people use the fact that they get improved precise at 6th, but my archer gets seeking on his bow at 5th, so thats not really a good enough reason for ranger over fighter from a DPR stand point.
master arminas wrote:
oh they made errata to it, in my book it says "for the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus is equal to his monk level."
To me, the flurry of bows is always been a way to give the monk free feats (TWF chain + double slice for free) nothing more, nothing less.
only in pathfinder. in 3.5 it was its own ability... which had its good and bad points. back in 3.5 you could have 8 attacks using flurry and twf feats. in pathfinder they made it so you couldnt do that anymore by making the ability mimic TWF.
when i first read the changes i interpreted them as " you can do everything that you could do in 3.5 except stack twf feats on top" but i was wrong for the last, what 4 years?
brother sapo i HATE your avitar, g*~ d&+n the 3.5 monk was one of the ugliest pictures in that book.
"With TWF you get access to the entire feat tree. FoB does not let you take Two Weapon Rend, Two Weapon Defence etc"
this is what really pisses me off about this ruling. a monk is weaker then a fighter in one more area. not only do they have a weaker bab, lower ac, lower hp, and more. now they have to play by the twf rules without gaining acess to the twf feat tree?
oh and if you multi clas out of monk you lose out on your flurry bab progression once you leave. monk level 5, you have a 5 bab when flurring at 20, congragulations.
so flurry of blows is already worthless unless you go 1-20 monk, you guys just made it even worse lol.
really you had to bring the 99% movement into this lol.
anyway on topic i agree with keeping the monk as was in 3.5. honestly i thought the only reason the "functions as TWF" was in there to stop people from using flurry+TWF for 11 attacks at 20th level. i never thought they actually were making it a bad version of twf.
but yes i would like to see reach weapon monks stay functioning, archer monks and what not still working as intended.
i mean if this change goes to print i have 4 monks in pfs that are completely dead.
gloves that apply a bonus similar to an enchanted bow, for thrown weapons.the price should be in line with enchanting a bow, seeing as though the damage would be the same.
i was trying to make a ninja star tossing character until i realized that i would be S.O.L. against most enemies and would fall behind in damage.
if not gloves i guess i cold see this taking a head slot, wrist, or chest. chest i think would be the best for mechanics, seeing as it would not interfear with anything a martial caracter would want in that slot. but hands would make the most sense.
and call them gloves of awesome throwing.