I'm considering allowing a nature oracle in an upcoming game I'm running choose spells from the druid spell list rather than the cleric list. Is there a huge power imbalance I'm overlooking?
I'm the one suggesting the change, and it seems to me they'll be giving up some healing/restorative spells and buffs (divine favor, shield of faith, bless) for a few more offensive spells and different buffs (shillelagh, barkskin).
I'm also thinking about allowing the character to pick up a couple of revelations from the Wood mystery, just because they're flavorful. Again, doesn't seem like a big problem but I'm curious if anyone else sees an opportunity for severe munchkinism.
(Note: Mods feel free to move this, but I put it here to get feedback from posters familiar with the AP).
So, as a break from my Legacy of Fire game I decided to run some 3rd-edition Shadowrun.
Partly to see if I could do it, I decided to use Carrion Crown as a basic road map for a plotline I'm working in between more traditional runs (mostly from the first season Missions adventures on Catalyst's site).
I've not been too worried about following CC exactly. Game's set in Seattle as the runners come together for the funeral of Dr. Peter Larrimer, a mage and surgeon who ran a charity hospital in the barrens and had done favors for each of them in the past. While doing runs to keep the hospital afloat (and arrange protection from the yakuza) the group recovers Larrimer's journals that mention Harrowstone, a private prison complex destroyed in a fire several years earlier.
Larrimer had been keeping an eye on the place, which was the site of clandestine, corporate research into cyber-zombie creation before the "accident" that left it a spirit-haunted ruin. He was killed by agents of the Whispering Way that visited the prison to extract a powerful free spirit trapped in a warded research area.
The group is approached by the Palatine Eye, an initiatory group that opposes the Whispering Way's attempts to resurrect a long dormant spirit of some kind, probably using a modified form of the rituals used in cybermancy creation - at least, that's my translation of the spiritual "MacGuffins" the WW is after so far.
For Trial of the Beast, I'm going with a simplified plotline: A local gang has turned in the body of the notorious "Beast of Leper Street," a barrens monster that has terrorized the locals for several months. The scarred carcass turns out to be a troll incarcerated at Harrowstone when it burned, but the body contains several more recent cyber-mods (in quantities verging on fatal).
The runners eventually will track down the beast's maker, a deranged cyber-surgeon who has been experimenting in hiding since Harrowstone's fall. He's on high alert when the runners arrive after recently being robbed by Whispering Way cultists seeking some magical doodads he spirited out of the prison.
For Broken Moon I'm thinking of moving in Native American Nation territory - have the runners infiltrate a corporate hunting lodge at a time when the local tribal councils (stand-ins for the werewolves) are at each other's throats over succession. I could work in some HMHVV-infected loup-garou or Wendigo to keep the werewolf vibe.
I'm looking for ideas on a MacGuffin for Broken Moon, though, as well as ideas for translating the later parts of the AP. I'm not sure where to place Wake of the Watcher - maybe farther up the coast, or south in Tir Tairngire or California Free State?
The vampires of the Ordo Maximus, with their rumored knowledge of advanced cybermanchy, seem perfect for Ashes at Dawn, so I might sub in London for Caliphas. For Shadows of Gallowspire, I'm torn between placing the endgame in a buried temple complex or in a corporate skyscraper in Seattle or some other megaplex.
My Legacy of Fire campaign just hit a snag, in a good way, when:
Spoiler:
4 of the 5 PCs were turned to stone trying to infiltrate the One Source warehouse in Katapesh after Rayhan's kidnapping.
One PC, an inquisitor of Pharasma, was able to escape, and intends to return to rescue the rest of the party. Unable to go to the authorities for reasons outlined in the adventure, he needs to recruit some help.
The group has contacts in the church of Sarenrae, but I figure the church would be wary of upsetting the peace and bringing down the hammer of the Pactmasters. Instead, he'll have to turn to the dregs of the city's mercenary adventurers.
With that in mind, I'd like to put together a samping of 5-6 temporary characters for the petrified players to choose from. As they'll just be temporary stand-ins, it's an opportunity to include some weirder, potentially imbalanced builds or monstrous races. Non-standard is better, and I'd like to avoid much overlap with the standard PCs (an elven rogue, half-elf witch, suli-jann paladin and tiefling fighter).
Here's what I've got so far:
Dim-witted air mephit sorcerer (stormborn)
Drunken/drug-addled gnome rogue/barbarian
Human (or other) cleric of Sivanha (goddess of illusions)
Gnoll ranger/fighter with hyena companion
Shield guardian golem, maybe a modified aluum, that could be the "pet" of one of the others.
Any other ideas? Strange is good, and I'm especially interested in concepts that fit in well with the Katapeshi underbelly.
This actually sounds really cool ... er, frosty. Unfortunately, I'm a 3etard when it comes to Shadowrun rules, too. The curse of 4th editions! Still, might not be too tough to convert. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has this. Does it do justice to the premise? Does it tie into Earthdawn? How are the production values?
It's almost identical to the ring of chameleon power but costs more than twice as much. I don't think that disguise self at-will, rather than as a move/standard action warrants an 18,000 gp price increase. I'd actually like to see the robe do something cooler/different/more powerful than the ring.
Note: this has to do with an entirely different problem than the one described in this thread.
Here's the problem: Although most martial weapons are “theoretically” balanced against each by a combination of smaller or larger damage dice, critical threat ranges and critical multipliers, several of the new feats in the PFRG, as well as the Fighter capstone ability Weapon Mastery, tilt things significantly in favor or weapons with an 18-20 threat range (kukri, rapier, falchion) or x4 crit multiplier (pick, scythe). And when I say significantly, I mean to an extent that even non-power gamers will take notice.
This is a bad thing, IMHO, because it in effect punishes players who choose to use iconic fantasy weapons like the longsword, greatsword and battleaxe.
I've included some extended justifications for this argument in the spoilers below (warning – math involved) but the short version is this: one small fix - restricting the use of the Powerful Critical feat with 18-20 weapons and retaining the x4 multiplier maximum as written - will largely re-balance things, if other Critical feats, Devastating Blow and Weapon Mastery are left as written. In fact, I'd probably lessen the penalty on Devastating Blow a bit, from a -5 to hit as a standard action to -2 as a standard action.
With this fix, 18-20/x2 weapons will gain the most benefit from Critical feats that inflict status effects, because those weapons have a higher chance per round of gaining a critical. But with the Powerful Critical nerf, they won't gain be gaining a huge addition in damage. Devastating Blow is of limited usefulness to these weapons, because they'll only be causing double damage, or triple damage for the 20th level Fighter with Weapon Mastery.
19-20/x2 weapons will gain moderate utility from Critical feats and extra damage from Powerful Critical, but don't gain as much from Devastating Blow as 20/x3 weapons, which gain significantly less benefit from other Critical feats because of their smaller threat range (remember, all these threat ranges are doubled with Improved Critical). Same for the 20/x4 weapons, which gain nothing from Powerful Critical (because of the x4 cap) but are the most effective with Devastating Blow.
To illustrate the current problem, here's a little more theory and the math for a 20th level Fighter with the feats as written:
Spoiler:
It's worth noting that the difference in damage dice (generally 1-2 points in average damage) becomes largely irrelevant at higher levels, when a warrior's damage output relies much more on bonus damage from Strength and other sources – much of which gets multiplied on a crit. So at higher levels, critical threat range and multipliers become the most meaningful factors when balancing weapons against each other.
Critical feats that cause an effect on a critical hit are hugely slanted toward weapons with larger threat ranges - a kukri wielder (threat range 15-20 with Improved Critical)has a 6 in 20 chance of activating a critical feat with each attack, for example, compared to 4 in 20 for a longsword wielder or 2 in 20 for someone with a greataxe or scythe. It is for that very reason that magic weapon "burst" enchantments double or triple the bonus damage dice for weapons with higher critical multipliers, for example.
Powerful Critical and the fighter's Weapon Mastery ability, both of which increase a weapon's critical multiplier by +1, also offer disproportionate benefits to weapon's with large threat ranges. A greataxe wielder with Improved Critical, for example, has a 19-20/x3 crit range. Ignoring very high ACs and the need to verify the crit, that means 2 chances in 20 to inflict 3 hits rather than one – essentially, two more hits than a normal hit. Powerful Critical increases that to 19-20/x4, meaning he has 2 in 20 chances of 3 extra hits above normal.
The kukri wielder, however, sees a more drastic increase. With only Improved Critical, his range is 15-20/x2 – 6 chances for one extra hit. With Powerful Critical that goes to 6 chances for 2 extra hits. Multiplying the chance for a critical by the number of potential extra hits, the axe wielder is at 6, while the kukri wielder is at double that, 12. Weapon Mastery, which increases the critical multiplier by +1 for each weapon, exacerbates the problem: we end up with 2 chances of 4 extra hits for the axe (so 8) compared to 6 chances of 3 extra hits (18) for the kukri.
To see the difference this makes in terms of average damage per round, here's our example 20th level Fighter. For simplicity's sake, we'll assume he has Strength 30 with items and level ups, a +5 weapon, Weapon Training +4 and Weapon Mastery with that weapon, and the following feats: Power Attack, Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Specialization, Improved Critical, Critical Focus, Powerful Critical, Critical Mastery and one other Critical Feat. He's fighting a Balor (AC 35) and Power Attacking for 10 (his full Strength) with a two-handed weapon.
Total, his attack bonus is +41/+36/+31/+26, or +31/+26/+21/+16 with Power Attack.
Using a falchion (18-20/x2 base crit range), he does 2d4+48 per hit, or 53 on average.
Using a greatsword (19-20/x2 base), he does 2d6+48 per hit, or 55 on average.
Using a greataxe (20/x3 base), he does 1d12+48 per hit, also 55 (rounded up) on average.
Using a scythe (20/x4 base), he does 2d4+48 per hit, or 53 on average.
Regardless of weapon, his chance to hit the balor with each of his four attacks is: 85%+60%+35%+10%, for an average of 1.9 hits per round.
For the falchion wielder, each hit has a 30% chance of being a crit (they auto-confirm thanks to Weapon Mastery) except for the last one (which has only a 10% chance of hitting, although if it hits, it crits). 30+30+30+10= 1 crit per round on average, which is equivalent to 3 additional hits (with Power Critical and Weapon Mastery, his multiplier is up to x4). So all told, the falchion-wielder scores 4.9 hits at 53 damage for 259.7 points of damage per round, on average.
Using the same method for the other three weapons (remember, the scythe and other 20/x4 weapons gain nothing from Powerful Critical), we end up with this:
Falchion: 259.7 average damage per round; Critical feat activations: 1, on average
Greatsword: 220; .7 activations
Greataxe: 192.5; .4 activations
Scythe: 185.5; .4 activations
So not only is the falchion wielder doing significantly more damage than everyone else, he's also activating his other [Critical] feat far more frequently. The comparatively smaller benefit for the Greataxe and Scythe is balanced somewhat by the increased utility those weapons gain from the Devastating Blow feat (which allows the user to force a critical hit with a standard action at -5 to hit) but the greatsword wielder is pretty much everybody's b!tch.
I personally don't see that degree of difference as desirable, especially when it marginalizes traditional weapons like swords. But what to do about it?
I wrestled with a couple of fairly complicated options before hitting on the change to Powerful Critical, making that feat unavailable to 18-20/x2 weapons (as they're mostly finesse weapons, anyway, it makes sense).
That modification changes things to look like this:
Falchion (ultimately 15-20/x3): 206.7 average damage per round; Critical feat activations: 1, on average
Greatsword (17-20/x4): 220; .7 activations
Greataxe (19-20/x5): 192.5; .4 activations
Scythe (19-20/x5): 185.5; .4 activations
This way, 18-20/x2 weapons still rule when it comes to [Critical] feat effects, but they no longer rule in terms of raw damage, as well. 19-20/x2 weapons gain the best overall damage on full attacks, and are decent with [Critical] feats or even Devastating Blow. Axes and scythes, while on the low end in terms of full-attack damage and [Critical] feat activations, gain the most benefit from Devastating Blow with their eventual x5 damage multiplier (for this to balance out, 20/x3 weapons need to be gain the benefits of Powerful Critical with Devastating Blow, just in case Jason decides to restrict the combination of Devastating Blow and other [Critical] feats).
I want to sign up for a Chronicles subscription in time for Gods & Magic, but the Campaign hardcover is still listed as the current product, and I've got a copy already. When does the featured product "flip" so I can start my subscription with Gods & Magic?
I understand Jason doesn't want to get into the nitty gritty on feats yet, so I'll avoid specifics and take Jason's assurance that all the feats will be sufficiently bad-ass when we get there. But since the fighter, and to a lesser extent other warriors, depend on combat feats so much, hopefully it's cool to talk about them in a general way as they relate to the classes, especially the fighter. I'll try to bold the bits that are class-specific changes.
In an ideal universe, here's what I'd like to see:
1) A series of feats that add static, weapon-specific bonuses (Focus, Specialization, Improved Crit, and the greater versions). These (including Specialization) would be open to any class (with pre-reqs based on BAB), but I'd adopt the suggestion that Fighter's can apply weapon-specific feats to any weapon in a group in which they have Weapon Training. Because Weapon Training isn't available until 5th level, dipping isn't a problem (5 levels ain't really dip ...)
2) A series of feats adding additional combat options when using weapons from a specific weapon group (ie. Axes, Heavy Blades, etc.) Rather than adding static bonuses, these feats would add situational options or effects and would have a pre-requisite of Weapon Training (possibly of various levels) in that weapon group, essentially making them fighter-only.
3) Four or five fighting-style feat trees, encompassing tropes such Two-Handed Weapons, Two-Weapon Fighting, Sword-and-Board, Archery and Mounted Combat. These, again, would be open to all based on BAB. Ideally, each feat tree would include 5-6 feats: three core feats (available at low, medium and high level) and 2-3 auxiliary feats adding options or bonuses that are supplemental, but not essential to the style's theme. If each tree includes 5-6 feats, then the fighter, with his 21 feats over 20 levels, can master 2-3 styles with a few feats left over for basics (Toughness, Iron Will, Skill Focus, etc.) and weapon-specific stuff, while other warriors (with 10 or so feats) can master one, with a few feats left over for class-specific abilities.
And while I'm on the topic of Sword-and-Board -- I like many of the S&B feats in the Beta, but they essentially turn the S&B-er into a two-weapon fighter. This increases rolls (which I gripe about below) and while it's ok for some players, I'd like to see more feats that add static bonuses (always-on feats, rather than "add-options" feats). Players, whether newbs or lazy veterans, need to be able to build a character that doesn't require too many choices in combat, and the fighter traditionally has fit that bill. So while I'd keep the feats that let a fighter attack with his shield and retain the AC bonus, I'd add some that grant a miss chance or something if he doesn't attack with it (and isn't using a gods-be-infinitely-damned animated shield.)
I also support adding the "ignore speed reduction in armor" ability to Armor Training, and I think the DR granted by the fighter's Armor Mastery needs to be gained at an earlier level, then boosted higher up. And, as has been mentioned elsewhere, Medium Armor (other than the breastplate) needs to not suck so much.
Weapon Mastery, too, could come earlier, at least partially. Maybe have the "crits automatically confirmed" bit come at 15th or 17th level, then the damage multiplier at 20th. I'm actually opposed to making Weapon Training add +1 hit/+d6 damage. I think the current damage bonus (when combined with Specialization, etc.) is sufficient, and changing it to d6 just adds more rolls.
I think reducing rolls, in general, should be a design goal when Jason tackles feats again -- by making some feats require standard actions, warriors can be encouraged to give up their iterative attacks and actually move around some. Of course, the benefit of the feat has to actually be worth (in damage) giving up those iterative attacks. Several of the current Beta feats (here's looking at you Vital Strike and Beta Power Attack) drive me nuts in this respect, because they're deceptive. They appear to add a bonus, but when you crunch the numbers they actually reduce the average damage a fighter deals in a round in most circumstances. It's ok for a feat to be situationally beneficial, but it generally should not penalize a player -- especially when the penalty is frequent and not readily apparent. It's supposed to be a bonus, right?
Anyway, those are the fighter-ish thoughts that have been circulating through my brain over the last few days. Hopefully it's wasn't too feat-ful. If it is, move into General and I'll repost later ...
I sent an e-mail about this as well. I receieved a free copy of the Second Darkness Player's Guide as part of my Pathfinder AP subscription (shipped as part of order 985739) but just got an e-mail that you're sending me a second copy (and charging me for it). I don't want this or need it and would like you to cancel the order and reverse the charge to my card ASAP.
I'm getting ready to start a RotRL playtest campaign and was working up some additional background feats for the characters. Here's two I came up with for a cleric of Gorum. Thoughts?
Riddle of Steel With a whispered prayer to Gorum, you coax forth the inherent power of steel.
Prerequisite:Craft (weapons or armor) 1 rank, Knowledge (religion) 1 rank; Patron Deity (Gorum).
Benefit: When you cast a spell or use a spell-like or supernatural ability that grants an enhancement bonus to a weapon or suit of armor, the bonus granted is increased by +1. The weapon or armor so enhanced must be primarily composed of metal for this bonus to apply.
Blessing of Sinew You call upon Gorum to grant your body the strength and flexibility of well-forged steel.
Prerequisite:Riddle of Steel; Knowledge (religion) 3 rank; Patron Deity (Gorum).
Benefit: When you cast a spell or use a spell-like or supernatural ability that grants a bonus to Strength, Dexterity or Constitution, you may choose to increase the bonus granted by +2 or double the duration.
I just noticed that the cost of my Pathfinder subscription jumped from $17.99 ($13.99 + $4 shipping) to $19.07 ($13.99 + $5.08 shipping). Is that a mistake, or are we getting uncomfortably-humped by the USPS?
I'm still working on a more thorough analysis of the combat options available to the various warrior classes under the Alpha 3 system, but something I wanted to go ahead and address is the relative weakness of the one-handed weapon or "sword-and-board" style.
Under the 3.5 system, there are really only two ways for a melee warrior-type to lay down significant damage: Either by wielding a two-handed weapon and focusing on strength (which provides a multiplied benefit, especially with Power Attack), or by using two weapons (and maximizing "per-hit" damage bonuses such as sneak attack).
Theoretically, each of those combat styles trades their increased damage potential for a lower AC than the sword-and-shield warrior. At low levels, that's generally true. But by mid-levels, there are numerous options (animated shields, or feats such as Improved Buckler Defense) that allow the two-handed or two-weapon fighter to grab essentially the same AC bonus as the sword-and-boarder. And by that time, the sword-and-board warrior has fallen so far behind in the damage department he's doing only about half the damage the others are.
Several of the shield-focused feats in the Alpha document address this somewhat by effectively turning the sword-and-boarder into a two-weapon fighter. That's fine, for some characters, but one thing I'd like to see preserved in Pathfinder is the ability to build a fighter as an entry-level" character, built primarily with feats that offer static bonuses rather those that offer more complicated combat options.
As I said, I'm still working through the Alpha combat feats to assess their relative worth to each of the fighting styles (feats like Deadly Stroke or Devastating Blow, for example, are most beneficial to the two-handed fighter, who has the greatest damage potential per single blow and thus suffers less for giving up additional attacks). But none of the new feats appear to give the needed boost to warriors who wield a single one-handed weapon. After wrestling with it a while, I came up with this, which is both simple and (I think, anyway) elegant.
Practiced Assault By focusing on a single weapon, you are able to level a precise series of blows against an opponent. Requirement: Base attack bonus +6
Benefit:As a full attack action with a one-handed melee weapon, all of your iterative attacks are made at your highest attack bonus. This feat does not apply if you attack with a shield or weapon in your off-hand, wield a one-handed weapon in two hands, or use the monk's flurry of blows ability.
Normal: Iterative attacks are made at successively lower attack bonuses (ie. +11/+6/+1).
By doing away with the penalty for iterative attacks, this actually simplifies the system for players who prefer an uncomplicated character, and reinforces the single weapon fighter's schtick -- accuracy -- compared to 2-handers (raw damage per strike) or 2-weapon fighter's (number of strikes). With the pre-requisite of BAB +6, a fighter (who has a bonus feat at even levels) can take it immediately upon gaining a second attack.
I've run some numbers for mid- to high-level fighters: in most situations the sword-and-boarder with the above feat was doing 75-80 percent average damage per round compared to a similar fighter built for two-handed fighting (compared to 1/2 to 2/3 the damage without the feat) which I think is about right.
I'll try to follow up with some additional ideas. In general, I really like the changes Jason has made to the various warrior classes. I think the feats available, however, will ultimately have a big effect on how effective/balanced classes like the fighter, paladin and monk are in combat.
This is a quibble, but how 'bout making the damage bonus from "Battle Smite" and unnamed bonus instead of enhancement? It's not a massive power-up, allows Battle Smite to work with the domain's level 2 ability, and most importantly, cuts down on the math.
Instead of "Um, does this stack? Ok, 1/2 character level, minus, um, 3 for my sword ..." all you have to remember/explain to your fellow PC is "You get +4 damage. Ok. -Smack orc- Done."
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tribeof1
(Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Roleplaying Game, Campaign Setting, Companion, Tales Subscriber)
