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thejeff's page

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 22,938 posts (23,859 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist. 2 Pathfinder Society characters. 8 aliases.


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Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

The tipping point is Lucy's World, when a particular straw finally breaks the monkey's back. In that scenario, it was plague that broke out of control when the country and planets civilised infrastructure was already under excessive stress from the cumulative effects of climate change.

The tipping point is essentially when you get enough of a mass die-off that infrastructure that moves goods and services no longer functions, and Humanity's population takes a nose dive from it's 10 billion to a few million. At that point we're living in Mad Max's world, with very little possibility of us bootstraping back up, and the very heavy likelihood that we would lose our cumulative technological, social, and artistic legacies within a generation.

A few centuries after we've been knocked back to subsistence farming, the atmosphere should be cleaning itself out. But having exhausted all the easy to obtain fossil fuels, we would never recover our civilization again.

Different tipping point.

Actual climate tipping points are what he's talking about. The climate shifting into a different stable mode where even stopping human carbon emissions and waiting centuries won't get us back to where we were.


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MisterSlanky wrote:
Nefreet wrote:

No. It means that if you couldn't attempt the roll to begin with, then you can't Aid.

It does not mean that if you couldn't make the DC, you can't Aid.

Those are two entirely different circumstances.

Nefreet, with respect, that's not what the language in the rule reads.

The language doesn't read "if you couldn't attempt the roll" it reads, "In cases where the skill restricts who can achieve certain results". If you have a -1 Diplomacy, you cannot achieve the result of influencing a creature that is hostile; literally the skill restricts who can achieve an influence result by who is capable of the DC, just as the skill of open lock restricts those who can achieve an open door result by who is capable of the DC.

Even the skill language is roughly the same; I fail to see where all these special qualifiers for "couldn't make the DC" come from, as they're not located in the skill descriptions themselves either.
<Snip>
Again, very different language than what is in the aid another description, even though it's in the same section. If the aid another meant to mean "no untrained use" it would say, "you cannot aid if you are untrained".

Well, there are other cases where you can't achieve certain results, even if you are trained - disabling Magical traps without trapfinding, for example.

That's a blatant restriction on who can achieve certain results.

BTW, do you let people roll anyway, then ignore the results or do you tell them the DC?


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Fergie wrote:
Irontruth wrote:
Instead, if you look at the demographics of where his supporters do come from, you see white, working class, uneducated men. That doesn't mean that ALL white, working class, uneducated men support Trump, but that odds are, a Trump support will end up being those things.

My question is, what percentage of working class whites (let's say those making under 30K per year) are planning on voting for Trump? My guess is that most are not planning to vote at all. Among those who are going to vote, I would be surprised if Trump got more then half of those votes.

Among wealthy whites with college degrees, I think the percentage chance of voting goes way up, and I'm guessing again that Trump is unlikely to cross the 50% line. I think Trump is a phenomenon of the wealthier, not poorer people, but I would have to really check the fine print of some polls to see what the facts are.

We hear a lot about how Trumpism is the fault of whites at the bottom of the economic ladder, but blaming poor people for the words and actions of a connected billionaire seems... backward or upside down.

Some data

This is unfortunately a couple months back - before the conventions, still I doubt the broad demographic trends have changed.

Sadly even the detailed table doesn't give a break down by race & income, but it does give breakdowns for college & non-college white men: College grads split 49:42 for Trump. Non College grads split 65:28.

From what I've seen elsewhere, Trump actually does best among non-college whites who are doing okay. Not wealthy, but not poor either. Since his support is stronger among older folks, a lot of them probably got their start when it was easier to do so without a degree. Those who've actually been screwed by the economy aren't as likely to support him as those who haven't but think they might be.


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Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

Important thing to remember is that during the primaries, Trumps numbers were sampled among the more narrowed subset of the Republican party, the militant theological core. Now they're being sampled across the general electorate which is going to be a different picture, which is why historically, primary winners typically move their rhetoric over to the center.

Which has not has happened as much this campaign. Clinton has been held back by her need to assure the Sanders crowd by giving at least lip service to the Sanders planks that got nailed to the platform, and Trump has up to know remained steadfast in the belief that what got him the primaries will give him the general election, a belief that he holds not entirely without reason.

Clinton has also been able to appeal to moderates and even some Republicans without actually shifting right.

That may be largely due to Trump's very nature driving moderates away, but she's also made some very deft moves to do so - symbolically at least. The upbeat, patriotic theme of the convention was a brilliant contrast to the dark fearful RNC. She stole back rhetorical territory the Republicans had held since Reagan's Morning in America and she did it without conceding anything on policy.


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MannyGoblin wrote:
Telepathic surgery is rape.

Depends on the circumstances. Could be consensual. Probably be awesome for psychiatry.

That's beside the point though: I reread that sequence just a little while back and there's no telepathic surgery involved. Certainly not explicitly and I don't even think it was implied.
She certainly read his mind, though it could be argued she didn't have the control to keep from doing so. She badgered him into admitting it verbally. Not at all cool, but not telepathic surgery.


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Nefreet wrote:

Wait, are people seriously claiming that a –1 Diplomacy PC can't Aid when the DC is 20?

That is not what that passage means.

Player: "I'd like to Aid, GM?"
GM: "I'm sorry, you're too ugly to even attempt it."

No. It means that if you couldn't attempt the roll to begin with, then you can't Aid.

It does not mean that if you couldn't make the DC, you can't Aid.

Those are two entirely different circumstances.

I prefer that interpretation, but Disable Device to open a lock is the example. When couldn't you attempt to do that?

Untrained, I guess, but then why specify opening a lock?


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MisterSlanky wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
I would not put too much weight behind the achieve certain results line, there are certain ways to get higher bonuses on a reroll or after get a bonus after the roll is made.
Just because it's an often forgotten rule doesn't make it not a rule, and one that should carry far more weight than it does.

It's more a question of what it actually means. And what the implications of that are.

If it actually means couldn't make the DC alone even with a 20, what are the implications for that? Take picking a lock - If I have a 5 in Disable Device, then I could Aid with average locks (DC 25), right? Or could I? Do I need thieve's tools for that? Cause without tools, I'd need a 35 and couldn't do it.

Does that mean everyone helping needs to actually be fitting tools into the lock? That should put a hard limit on how many can Aid.

How does it interact with checks with varying levels of success? If I can beat the base target DC, but not beat it by 5, do we count my +2 only towards the base, but not the higher level of success?


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Matthew Morris wrote:
I would have been more interested if iceboi was gay as iceman wasn't. Having more and more studies about sexuality as saying it isn't always fixed...That would have been interesting.

I guess. Though it would have been confusing. Did iceboi only become gay in the couple of weeks/months since he came to the future? Was iceman gay in the past but became straight at some point - all without it ever being mentioned?

I'm not too fond of retconning character's sexuality, but I thought this was done pretty well. I liked the "Isn't it enough that I have to be hated for being a mutant, do I have to be hated for being gay too?" angle.


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Spastic Puma wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

If you go to school, work hard, bust your rump, then getting a decent paying job isn't supposed to be a privilege (unearned benefit) or special treatment, it's SUPPOSED to be what happens to anyone.

That has of course, not been true for a long time (if ever), and certain segments of the population have known that that wasn't true for a long time. But people are looking for and expecting some sort of fairness from the system because that's what the system used to be to them: fair. You did the hard work, you got the pay. It was earned, not given. If that's not happening anymore then someone is cheating. Calling people that literally broke their backs to do their job privledged or entitled is not true, not fair, and most of all not helpful.

That's a really good point. I think a lot of different groups face the reality that The American Dream (in this case I'm referring to the idea that if one works hard and keeps their nose clean they will succeed in great fashion) is not real -- and perhaps, never was. Most people die in the same social class they're born in. There are countless people breaking their back for 70 hours a week, making peanuts while their CEO's make 260 times more money than them. It's not what you know, it's who you know, etc. all this creates a disalussionment that social groups have to contend with in their own way. From Kimmel's perspective, white males address this lie they've been sold with impotent rage and lash out at minorities who stole "their" jobs, threaten "their" freedom, and feel like they are drowning under the rising tide of equality around them.

It's worth remembering that to the extent this was ever true, it was much shorter and rarer than the American Myth makes it.

Early on it was possible to go out to the frontier and eke out a rough living farming - often that was far better than options back home - either in Europe or eastern US cities.
With the closing of the frontier and the start of industrialization, that safety valve went away.
The "American Dream" as we remember it today is the result largely of the confluence of labor unions, the New Deal and the post WWII boom. It really lasted somewhere around 30 years and was really only available to white men. It's telling that the downhill slide is closely tied to minorities getting enough influence to demand their share.
Maybe's is SUPPOSED to be what happens to anyone, but it never has been.


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Psylocke's been established as bisexual fairly recently.
Shatterstar was, not that I've seen anything with him in it for awhile.
There may be other.

Apparently bisexual invisibility is a meta-superpower. :)


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memorax wrote:

It's interesting how some who like that Iceman is gay react to those who say it's a retcon. One cannot even say it's a retcon or that it was handled poorly. Anyone can see it was a retcon. But if you dislike or disagree with the change your homophobic. Made worse when they say"but it's a proactive retcon and he was always meant to be gay". Show me where in the comics and I will agree. Otherwise it's like Cap being a Hydra agent. Another retcon and even if Marvel says he was always supposed to be almost no one fell for it imo. Heaven forbid any character be bisexual in the Marvel universe. Their either straight or gay. Nothing in between. With Mystique being the only exception.

That being said I still prefer Marvel to DC.

Well, whatever's going on out in the wider internet world, I haven't seen any accusations of homophobia here.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "proactive retcon", but Bobby is meant to have always been gay, just closeted. Obviously this wasn't intended by Lee & Kirby back in the 60s or pretty much at any time up until the very recent past. Completely unlike Hydra-Cap, since that, once we found out what was actually going on, was a Cube-imposed change to the character, not retroactively in continuity all along.

A bi character or two would be cool. There are a couple more floating around out there, but they're all pretty minor. I can see why they didn't take that road with Iceman though.


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Snowblind wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:
DrDeth wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:
thejeff wrote:
DrDeth wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Murderhoboes
If the players or characters call themselves this, I dont want to play with them.
It's not the ones who call themselves that that bother me. It's the ones who try to pin on my characters and games. "All PCs are murderhoboes."
When I look at the AP I am running and see its basically a string of home invasion and burglary with an expectation of wanton murder? Yeah, murderhoboes.
Then- don't run that AP. Review it as * star, complain.

Here's the thing... I didn't pay for the AP one of my players did and they are all having a blast with it.

Heck...they're all trying to be kind and merciful and avoiding the Murder part of murderhobo while invading these creatures homes and taking their stuff. Except kills made in 'self defense' of course [maybe Pathfinder doesn't have a Castle clause?]

On the Murderhobo subject, I really don't CARE what sort of people my players want to roleplay as. If they want to murderhobo then they're welcome to do so, all I ask is they understand that they're no heroes, they're thieves and butchers who occasionally stumble across a noble task in the midst of profiting off those weaker than themselves.

Do you mind me asking what AP it is(in spoilers)?

He said above it was Shattered Star, which is one of the more murder-hoboey ones I must admit. The motivation was kind of sketchy. Most of the opposition, especially in the early ones, wasn't really an urgent threat. Just in the way of getting the McGuffin and bad enough not to feel to guilty about fighting.


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Rednal wrote:

And that helps matters how?

Less flippantly, though, people have a tendency to believe the first thing they hear - and if the first thing they heard was "global warming is a lie made up to exert control over you"...

It helps because it's true. While I grant people do tend to believe what they first hear, it doesn't really help to bewail that and repeat the false version anyway.

Yeah, people are going to lie about global warming. Some will believe them. They'll do it regardless of the studies or the science. All we can do is counter.


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Jessica Price wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Quark Blast wrote:


Related question. Do people really drink that much?

The drinking seemed over the top to me. I've never seen an office with bars built in or wine on every desk. Or a pharmacy with beer on tap.

I suspect that's partly intentional - reflecting what the world looked like to her when she was trying to stay sober - temptation everywhere.
I dunno, booze is everywhere in tech, and abundant in workplaces.

Maybe? I don't work in a startup or anything like that, so maybe the culture is different. I mean, sure people drink after work and talk about drinking, but not openly drinking at work. No bottles on the office desks or anything. Closest would be going out for lunch and having a drink or two.

Or at office parties, but that's not work time.


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Rosc wrote:
Pat Lowinger wrote:
Or maybe...again just maybe, some players look at utilizing Archetypes which give them more class skills and skill points, such as the Tactician or Lore Warden.
Some very nice thoughs there. I've had many of the same. In fact, I'd almost prefer Lore Warden to be the baseline. And while I acknowledge that Charisma is the de facto dump stat, I do wish it had more universal appeal. Like how Dex gives initiative, or Wis for will saves.

Well, Lore Warden only barely helps, since it only gives extra skill points for knowledge, not general purposes.

And it makes you a low armor manuever based fighter, which isn't really what I want for a baseline.


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MannyGoblin wrote:
Iceman's preferences are none of Jean's business. He doesn't have to come out or reveal or start going out to bars just on her say so. Confronting him because he kept quiet about it? None of her business.

Agreed. She was definitely out of line. Part of her characterization at the time - one of many things she did that weren't cool.

OTOH, she didn't out him to anyone else or make him start going to bars or anything. She did at least keep the confrontation between themselves.

And later his older self, but damned if I know what the proper ethics of dealing with that are.


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dickie wrote:
While UGE first appeared in 2011 and Goblinization occurred in 3021, when Haley's Comet passed in 2061 there was a "second round" called SURGE (Sudden Unexplained Recessive Genetic Expression). Usually those who goblinized during the SURGE event were variations on already existing phenotypes, however, so unless you're looking at a variant metatype or a changeling, I don't think it really applies.

My understanding was that goblinization continued after the initial event, though it's become less common over time. It definitely wasn't just a one-day thing

Orcs and trolls born to other orcs and trolls will be born that way. Those born to others, mostly to apparently normal humans, will be born human, but goblinize at puberty.

As the metatypes segregate themselves and recessive genes work out of the populations, it happens less and less.


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Quark Blast wrote:
Cole Deschain wrote:
Quark Blast wrote:

I'm posting this link here because this seems the most apt location, since it's all about gender issues though not expressly LGBTQ.

Giving up alcohol opened my eyes to the infuriating truth about why women drink

Is this really what white-collar careers look like?

This does not make me happy. I'm hoping for sampling bias in the linked article but she makes it sound rather widespread. If generally true I need to learn myself a trade as an escape hatch from the hell of this sort of work environment.

Anecdotally, <snip> Well, I need to amend that- the oblivious, blind, indifferent sort of stuff seems more prevalent in the white collar sphere, but only because blue collar jobs tend to both have a smaller percentage of women involved and be more open about the sexism present in the workforce.

LOL! Well there goes my backup plan of having a trade job to escape the inanity of it all.

Related question. Do people really drink that much?

The drinking seemed over the top to me. I've never seen an office with bars built in or wine on every desk. Or a pharmacy with beer on tap.

I suspect that's partly intentional - reflecting what the world looked like to her when she was trying to stay sober - temptation everywhere.


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Greylurker wrote:
MannyGoblin wrote:

As I remember, another problem with Ice Man coming out is Jean Grey. Her incarnation then had no problems whatsoever with telepathically getting into people's heads and finding their secrets and even outright manipulated her teammates with her powers. When called on this, she just shrugged and said 'I'm a telepath, that is what I do.'

So she went into Iceman's head and found out he was gay and with a combo of telepathic and other manipulations made him admit he was gay.

I read that issue and the whole thing was just wierd. Depending on how you interprit those scenes you could almost say she decided for him that he was gay.

I know that is probably not the intent of the writters but Jean at that point had already shown she would mind control one of her "friends" to get the results she wanted by slapping down Angel when he wanted to go back to the past.

They way it was done, it was like "Iceman I'm sick of your sexist comments, so you're gay now."
"What why?"
"you just are"
"Can't I be Bi"
"No"

Not at all how I read it. And given the later discussion with the older Iceman, not at all how it was intended.

She read his mind - unintentionally, IIRC, since she's still learning control of her telepathy - and found out he was gay. Then confronted him and talked him into admitting it.

Definitely problematic use of her powers, but that's been part of teen Jean's character all along. Possibly linked to why Prof X kept her telepathy locked down much longer in her original timeline.


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Guy Humual wrote:
Caineach wrote:
There is a reason I say the democrats are a center-right party
I think they are, especially Hilary, Obama was able to beat her on the left, and Sanders, a man without name recognition, coverage, or money almost beat her doing the same thing. I think most Americans are far more left wing then either party.

1) It's not entirely clear how much to the left Obama was or even pretended to be.

2) Sanders didn't almost beat her. He put on a good show for someone without name recognition, coverage or money, but the race was basically over in March and not nearly as close as Clinton came in 2008.
3) If Sanders loss proves the US is really more left wing then either party, doesn't Trump win prove the US is really more crazy alt.right than either party?


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Grey Lensman wrote:
Greylurker wrote:

Sounds kind of like Obsidian over at DC. Guy had an absolutely lousy track record with women, several bouts of "turned evil" lot of fan gossip about his being gay.

when DC finally uncloseted him there wasa large portion of the readers that just said "about time he came out"

and the character honestly seemed happy and well adjusted after that point. We even had some scenes of the future where he and his boyfriend were happy, married and had adopted.

and then DC erased his very existance when they rebooted to New52

That was one change I really didn't like. They changed Alan Scott simply because they felt they needed to replace someone they retgoned (as opposed to...um...not eliminating someone entirely), and lost Alan's take on things - he had trouble accepting it (by his own admission) but wanted his son to have any happiness that he could. The take of someone who would otherwise have been anti-lgbt but was changing his mind due to someone close to him coming out was lost, and that's a shame IMO.

It also (to me, anyways) smacked of them changing the 'Earth 2' version so they could claim progress by doing it, but please don't notice him being shoved into perhaps the most irrelevant corner we can find.

In fairness, they'd already changed Alan Scott beyond recognition with the reboot of Earth 2, so it's essentially an entirely new character with the same name and similar powers. Even if they hadn't made him gay, they still wouldn't have had Obsidian (or Jade).


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Set wrote:

One issue I've seen is that evil characters in modern media tend to be pretty over the top and stupid. Someone brings the big bad some bad news? He flips out and kills the messenger. What's the takeaway for all the henchmen present? Never tell him bad news. Let him be nastily surprised, instead. Also, run away or surrender when the good guys show up, instead of fighting to the death to defend this toad.

"In modern media"? When are you starting "modern"? Doesn't this trope go back to both myth and ancient history?


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Grey Lensman wrote:
thejeff wrote:
GreenDragon1133 wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:

Ah! Thank you Jeff and Grey for the clarification.

I think they went with Iceboi since this one is gay and the other one is SO deep in the closet, Not even the Eye of Agamotto can find it.

You mean, since the older version of the character is straight and has dated almost as many women as Worthington III?

Well, officially he's not. They confronted each other over it in the last issue of Uncanny before Secret Wars and he basically admitted he's been closeted the whole time.

It's obviously a retcon. Certainly not originally intended for the character and probably not until this series. I'm not sure why "Iceman is gay" jokes have been a thing, unless it's been his generally lousy luck with women. He's dated plenty, but unlike Warren, few of them have lasted long. Still, I'm not really fond of the theory that "not good with women == closeted gay".

Of course it's a retcon - no character, ok, no heroic character created in the 1960's would be openly gay in mainstream comics. But the undercurrents for Bobby have been circulating for a little while at least - Marjorie Liu wrote the last big Iceman-centric story, (the one where he nearly freezes the world due to Death Seed influence, and nearly every former girlfriend he ever had shows up) and Liu has stated in interviews she specifically wrote him as someone deeply closeted.

Not even "openly gay", but not even closeted. Or in subtext. Up until Northstar, really.

But yeah, I was thinking about the decades of continuity and relationships before then. I can see it having been hinted at over the last few years.
I'm still not really sure where the Iceman is closeted theory came from originally.


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Turin the Mad wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
-we need to start policy decision based on differences of opinion, not basic facts.
Wait, what? :)

We should save green acres as a wildlife reserve because I like the fluffy bunnies that live there.

We should use green acres as a shopping mall because that is it's optimal value

That SHOULD be a debate. There's something to discuss there.

We need to do something about global warming

Global warming is a myth!

This should NOT be a debate at this point.

I was referring to policy decisions being made on "differences of opinion, not basic facts." ;)

Why would one make policy decisions the first instead of the last?

I'd probably phrase it as "policy debates over differences of opinion, not basic facts". You can't do functional policy when one side is ignoring the facts.

We need to be debating how to deal with global warming, not whether there's a vast conspiracy of scientists lying to us about it.


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MMCJawa wrote:
GreyWolfLord wrote:
Lots of stuff on political leanings of posters

I don't normally agree with GreyWolfLord on a lot of things, but I think he is exactly correct here. Paizo is a pretty progressive company, and I think their support LGBTQ and moderation policies have gradually turned off Alt-right and more conservative leaning posters either completely away from the site, or at least from sections of the site dealing even tangentially with those topics. I've been posting long enough to see some pretty disgusting stuff be posted by folks no longer around, which quickly got deleted and in some cases led to bans. And just being the sort of person who spends a lot of time on a forum is going to automatically skew where you fall on the political spectrum.

I also think there is just a natural human tendency to assume whatever special interest you have, whether it's science, gaming, birding, or any other hobby, is full of like-minded "enlightened" folks of your political persuasion. And a lot of that is more down to hanging out in areas where those contrary folks don't show up, or conversations just not steering in those directions and thus a certain amount of ignorance of what other people really feel.

Though I'd clarify that Paizo's support and moderation has really focused on LGBTQ and other inclusion issues. Things that would drive away the alt.right, but not fiscal conservatives or libertarians or such. I don't think I've ever seen them take a side on economic issues, for example. Other than the standard "keep it civil".


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Guy Humual wrote:
Zhangar wrote:


Or the solar energy industry v. the coal industry. (Or global warming.)

All sorts of economic related issues with semi-arbitrary splits on which party is affiliated with which side, though Republicans tend to be consistently on whichever side would be worse for the environment and/or the public =P

Well both seem to be married to the oil industry, fracking for example, and while the democratic platform gives lip service to being against it, they didn't actually suggest banning it. Factor in that Ken Salazar has been named to lead Hilary's transition team, a man that's not only pro fracking but also green lit a number of off shore drilling operations when he was Secretary of the Interior, and you have to wonder exactly what the difference between a typical republican government and a Hilary government regarding the oil industry.

Like with most things, some level of restraint. Democrats are no where near as extreme as the left hopes or the right fears, but even moderation is better. No, we're not likely to see an outright ban - though if you look on the state or local level which party has tended to ban? We are more likely to controls and regulation.

As much as fracking worries me, I'm not actually sure that's a bad thing either. The main effect of fracking on a large scale has been to weaken the demand for coal and for all the problems with fracking I think coal is worse. If we're not building out renewable energy fast enough, then I'd rather see fracking as an intermediate step.

Of course, you could blame Democrats for not switching to renewables faster, but there it's very clear that Republicans would be even worse.


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GreenDragon1133 wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:

Ah! Thank you Jeff and Grey for the clarification.

I think they went with Iceboi since this one is gay and the other one is SO deep in the closet, Not even the Eye of Agamotto can find it.

You mean, since the older version of the character is straight and has dated almost as many women as Worthington III?

Well, officially he's not. They confronted each other over it in the last issue of Uncanny before Secret Wars and he basically admitted he's been closeted the whole time.

It's obviously a retcon. Certainly not originally intended for the character and probably not until this series. I'm not sure why "Iceman is gay" jokes have been a thing, unless it's been his generally lousy luck with women. He's dated plenty, but unlike Warren, few of them have lasted long. Still, I'm not really fond of the theory that "not good with women == closeted gay".


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Grellik wrote:
I think what you need for an evil campaign to work is about the same thing you need for a good campaign to work. The players need to on the same page in terms of tone and theme, etc, and they need to make characters that will be able to work together at least as much as is needed for the campaign

Pretty much, though I'd say it's easier with good characters, since that in itself gives reasons to avoid all the backstabbing and treachery.

The answer for an evil game lies in the metagame. Figure out what you're looking for and give your characters motivations to match. Do you want PVP, backstabbing and treachery? Get that out in the open on a player level. Make sure everyone's on board and try to come up with some compromises to the game doesn't end in a TPK over the first nice piece of loot.
If you want evil, but not PvP game, then you need to build in motivations that hold the party together. It's better if those come with player involvement rather than just imposed by the GM - helps make sure everyone understands the in game reasons are an excuse for the PCs to work together, not something forced on them that they should be looking for ways to evade.

In Vatras's example, killing the rest of the party might have been in character for the assassin PC, but the player should have been looking for an excuse not to do so - or had a better one built in from the start. Because game ending TPKs aren't usually in the player's interest. Find another way.


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Thomas Seitz wrote:
Who the heck is Tyke, Grey?!?

The Teen Cyclops, I assume.


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KSF wrote:
The Doomkitten wrote:
Time for serious biz.

I second everything Hrothdane said, particularly the three questions she laid out.

Further, I'd add....

If you do want to get going on HRT now, don't worry about all the testosterone you've got going on at the moment. Spironolactone (the T-blocker commonly used in HRT) will knock that stuff right out. Like, quickly.

I'm not at all an expert on this, but would it make sense to start the testosterone blocker without starting full HRT? Push off the male physical changes.


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kyrt-ryder wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:


Yes, but I think a reasonable one if the large piece of human culture seems to you like a small, niche subset of it.

Until this moment, I didn't realise anime was a "nationwide category of media", I thought it was a genre.

Anime is literally an abreviation of 'animation' used by the Japanese.

It would be like lumping all American Cartoons into the same pile. Including things ranging from Looney Toons to Avatar to Dreamswork to South Park to Disney to Futurama.......

Which is also a thing commonly done, particularly by older people - "Cartoons are for kids". Less prevalent than a few decades ago, but still a thing.

And again, while it's definitely a stereotyped overgeneralization, it's not racism.


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
thejeff wrote:
It's not the ones who call themselves that that bother me. It's the ones who try to pin on my characters and games. "All PCs are murderhoboes."
If the medal fits...

It doesn't, but keep trying to bash it into place anyway.


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kyrt-ryder wrote:
thejeff wrote:
DrDeth wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Murderhoboes
If the players or characters call themselves this, I dont want to play with them.
It's not the ones who call themselves that that bother me. It's the ones who try to pin on my characters and games. "All PCs are murderhoboes."
When I look at the AP I am running and see its basically a string of home invasion and burglary with an expectation of wanton murder? Yeah, murderhoboes.

Yeah. Well, I'm not playing that AP. Sorry.


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DrDeth wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Murderhoboes
If the players or characters call themselves this, I dont want to play with them.

It's not the ones who call themselves that that bother me. It's the ones who try to pin on my characters and games. "All PCs are murderhoboes."


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Well, it's not so much the Champions as "they had this spare superhero team name lying around".

I do have fond memories of the original Champs run, way back when. Shame it didn't last.


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
berserker444 wrote:
pro womens rights while pro religious rights that are fanatically anti womens rights just to name a couple vague stances
That one i do like to poke fun at, but again, it's a philosophical bit of cognitive dissonance, not anti science.

I'm not even sure what that one is. Is it the "Liberals want to help Islam impose Sharia Law" nonsense?

I've got no cognitive dissonance there. Any more than I have it with supporting the right of some Christians to believe things I consider hateful and that would infringe on other's rights if put into practice. You can believe what you will, but the law needs to protect people's rights and neither Christians or Muslims or any other religion should be able to claim their religion allows them to ignore that protection.


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Jiggy wrote:

But if I offered you Re:ZERO (a normal kid is transported to another world, gets disemboweled, then has to keep repeating the same few days until he figures out a way to not die) and Sweetness and Lightning (a recently-widowed schoolteacher learns how to cook better meals for his 6-year-old daughter), and you said "No thanks, I don't like over-the-top crazy fights", then that would be just as ridiculous as the example above with The Avengers/Get Smart. Furthermore, comparable to the above example's use of the term "Hollywood films" to mean "cowboy movies" would be the use of the term "anime" to refer only to the crazy, over-the-top fighting shows. And just like it would be mind-boggling to hear someone say that the "photographs of Americans with guns" is enough to infer that the above examples were cowboy movies, it's equally ridiculous to cite the drawing method of cartoon Asians as being indicative of Re:ZERO/Sweetness and Lightning being DBZ-style action shows.

Any number of folks in this community would find the above "cowboy movies" example shocking, to the point of probably not believing such a dialogue could even happen. And yet, doing the exact same thing with "anime" seems to be par for the course for a lot of folks in this community. What I take issue with is (1) that double-standard, and (2) that some folks are so thoroughly convinced of anime's uniformity that they think the "cowboy movies" comparison is invalid.

Making assumptions on the same tier of absurdity as "that James Bond movie has a guy with a gun so it must be like a John Wayne movie", and/or asserting that anime isn't diverse enough for that to be a valid analogy, are what I'm speaking out against.

]Honestly, in both cases (Hollywood cowboy and anime), I'd say it's far more ignorance than prejudice, much less racism. The Hollywood==cowboy thing is just much rarer, but if you were in some remote backwater country with no media access and all you'd seen of American movies was a few cowboy movies, it would be understandable. Probably not possible today, but maybe 30 years ago. American media is too pervasive today. You might still get stereotyped ideas from it, but it certainly won't be cowboy movies.

You might not think it, but plenty of people - even gamers, still have minimal exposure to anime. Personally, I'd have been more likely to associate with giant robots or mecha and I've still never seen DBZ (or really anything like it). Yes, it's annoying when people complain about "anime-style", meaning one specific bit of what's far more a medium than a genre, but I still don't think it's particularly connected to racism.


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BigNorseWolf wrote:


3) The anti vaccine thing is one of those things where it's under the plane, you walk far enough out to the left or right and that's where you wind up.

I'm actually kind of grateful to Jill Stein for keeping up the perception that the anti-vaccine thing is as much left as right, regardless of her actual position on it. If that actually becomes adopted by the right as a Right vs. Left touchstone in the culture and science wars, far more people will take it up and that would be bad.


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Krensky wrote:
Caineach wrote:
Krensky wrote:
It's amazing how you have confused a comma for a a period and then ignored the entire rest of the sentence.
Your clarification compared her to Trump with bad branding. Trump is actively courting white supremacists. If he doesn't qualify as part of the crazy right, I don't know what does.
A self aggrandizing narcissist who panders to the lowest common denominator of politiphobe is a self aggrandizing narcissist who panders to the lowest common denominator of politiphobe regardless of what sort of flavoring their populism has.

The flavoring matters. When one of them is pandering to the racists and sexists and other bigots, that sure matters when it comes to dangerous.

I'm no kind of fan of Jill Stein, but she'd be far from as scary as Trump is, even if she was as successful and thus as powerful and influential.


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Krensky wrote:
Your getting awful defensive there Jeff...

I just keep hoping that one time when someone talks about the scary Left, they'll actually have something.


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Thomas Seitz wrote:

Thejeff,

Jane and Sam will still be Avengers along with Nadia. Spiderman (Peter Parker), Hercules and Vision will be joining them.

Amadeus, Sam (Nova), Kamala (Ms Marvel), Miles (Spider-man), Viv (Vision's daughter) and young time displaced Cyclops are making a go as the Champions.

Also clarifying, yes Pym is kind of dead, but part of his consciousness merged with Ultron who pretty much is KIND not dead. But we'll see if any that sticks.

Finally, Rick Jones isn't on the lamb. He's working the Hydra Cap and Sharon Carter to get his kind of "work release" with S.H.I.E.L.D. taken care of. He still has his newly acquired hacker skills, along with feeling sad that Bruce is dead.

Odinson (The original Thor) is going to have a short mini-series detailing where the hell he's been and what's he doing with trying to be worthy. Supposedly Beta Ray Bill will show up in it too.

Riri will NOT be called Iron Woman. Her new code name is Ironheart. (Yes it's silly especially when she's in Invincible Iron Man)

That's pretty much all I know except apparently we're getting a version of the Clone Saga...again.

Yeah, I know about the Avengers and Champions. I just liked the idea of a team that was straight replacements for the original Avengers (+Cap, because he really counts as an original even if he only came in #4.) And Rick should come hang out with them.

I have been enjoying the All different Avengers so far. Who knows how it will go with the membership shakeup. Or Champions either.
Looking forward to Thor the Unworthy. And cautiously to Ironheart as well.

Not to the Clone Saga, though if it's just Jackal coming back with various clones and not another Peter Parker replacement, it might be alright.


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OK. So no one with anyone near the prominence or power of the dangerous and scary people on the right.

False equivalence.


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Krensky wrote:

Oh, some are just as dangerous and scary, they just don't look like it in comparison.

Think of Father Ted. Ted and Dougal are both crazy, but put them in the same room as Jack they seem perfectly normal.

So who on the left is "just as dangerous and scary"?

Are they anywhere near as prominent as their equivalents on the right?


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At the risk of spoilers, in the actual module it seems the intent is that though PCs may be built with such connections, they won't start off remembering them.

Spoiler:
As they further gain their bearings, each PC realizes that he also doesn’t recognize anyone in the room, including the other PCs. Even if characters have interwoven backgrounds or intimate connections, they have no memory of those experiences or relationships.

PCs won't even remember familiars or other similar pets, though they'll be available and will have the usual connections.

I'm not sure how that all works with the idea that you've only forgotten a few years. I don't think even the GM has the full story yet.


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Set wrote:
Greylurker wrote:

What is the current status of the Founding Avengers in marvel at this time?

1) Thor
2) Ant-man
3) Wasp
4) Iron man
5) Hulk
6) Rick Jones

7) and little bit later Captain America

I'm sensing an event in the works

1) Using a backup hammer or Celestial-killin' axe, but otherwise functioning as (a) Thor.

2) Kinda dead(ish).
3) Adventuring with Pym's daughter by his first wife.
4) Fighting with Carol about pre-emptively killing people who might commit crimes. Perhaps soon to be quasi-retired while two other people fill his shoes.
5) Dead. Not even 'ish.'
6) In hiding from SHIELD, seems a bit paranoid, but since people really are out to get him, it's understandable.
7) Mind-jobbed into thinking that he's Hydra, that we've always been at war with Eastasia, and that there are five lights.

It's pretty inconsistent. Some are alive and kicking. Most have one or more legacy characters running around (some, like Scott Lang, having been legacies for decades, others, like Amadeus Cho or Jane Foster or Sam Wilson, are older characters, but new to the legacy thing, others, like Nadia Pym and Riri Williams, just showed up now-ish). And a few are pining for the fjords.

And now I'm pining for a Jane, Sam, Riri, Nadia, Scott, Amadeus Avengers team.


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Fergie wrote:

Not worth bringing the conversation back to this, but I wrote it, and forgot to hit post, so here it is:

Perhaps I am being misinformed, I'll be the first to admit that I have trouble understanding tax form stuff. I also don't know much about The Daily Kos, but was under the impression that it was generally pro-democrat. As for The Federalist, or The Hedge, I know very little about them. I know the NY Post is often B%#~!&$#, so I didn't link that. I will attempt to find better sources in the future.

The Kos is indeed quite pro-democrat, but that particular diary was from April, in the middle of the primary wars. From a fervent Bernie supporter.

Beyond that, it's interesting that running a charity is seen as disqualifying, while running a business, particularly a big business with international deals and connections is seen as a plus.


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bugleyman wrote:
Rysky wrote:

And he did the inverse when Brexit occurred and he gave a speech congratulating the British on taking their country back.

In Scotland.

To a Scottish audience.

Egads. Even a ignorant 'Murican such as myself knows better than that!

You've got to cut him some slack. He was only there taking care of business at his golf course. He did make sure to add it was likely to be good for his golf business.


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Abraham spalding wrote:

So in case someone wonders what parts of Gary Johnson's campaign I don't like:

1. The libertarian platform.
2. Ron Nelson's long time partnership with Gary Johnson and all the dirt that's attached to them both through that.
3. RON PAUL! (well only in that it's RON PAUL, and no direct connection)

Informative links

With a history of the stuff

And I as I like to add everytime I mention him, that's "former Republican governor Gary Johnson."


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Rednal wrote:
...When in doubt, loudly accuse somebody else of what you, yourself, are doing?

Projection is certainly a thing.

But this is almost cleverer. Accuse them of a different kind of fraud and use that accusation as justification for your own: Democrats are voting multiple times so we must purge the rolls of voters who might be doing so.

And we'll make the matches as sloppy as possible to knock out as many as we can. This kind of thing was one of the biggest factors at work in Florida in 2000. Back then it was purging felons from the rolls, not people who'd voted in multiple states, but it still worked by using sloppy matches, ignoring SSNs, middle names and other differences, to remove far more voters than necessary.


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Speaking of election rigging, here's a far more effective way than in person voter fraud.

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