I am considering building a Barbarian with lesser and regular fiend totem. Basically whenever someone strikes me they take 1d6 points of damage from these spikes that surround my body. If I have an amulet of mighty fists, would it increase the damage?
Feral Combat training will allow you to use natural attacks as unarmed strikes
I didn't really 'take' the claws evolution, rather it came with the base creature. I am just not adding additional arms. Also I am definitely taking the feat for weapons rather then the overpriced evolution costs. The only reason I am taking bite is for the poison, but the additional attack when they are within range is pretty cool. You have a good idea about giving the reach to the bite though as this would allow me to use the bite more often. Trip is an interesting idea as well, but I am strapped for evolutions despite the fact that I would go with the Half Elf archtype and spend all of my favored class on partial evolutions.
That is fine, just slow down their HD progression. Give them 1 HD for every other level, or 2 HD per 3. Also penalize death. Make it a one week ritual that costs x gold per HD. This way he isn't OP. Also let the synthesist use their own BaB if higher then the Eidolon. This way true multiclassing is viable.
Wind Chime wrote:
Honestly the synthesist annoys people more because he is better than a fighter (martial) at a fighter job. A straight summoners eidiolion will be weaker than a synthesist (assuming dips into MOMS and Paladin and stat dumping)and so much less likely to show up the martial classes. Not to mention having a dedicated buffer (summoner) is not something that any self respecting martial fighter can complain about (especially level 4 haste) so is much less likely to draw player ire.
I am not sure what MOMS is, but a dip in Monk would help alot with the excellent Wisdom that the stat dumper will likely have. Also you are right that a sythesist will definitely outperform and eidolon side by side. That is assuming that the eidolon is unaided by the summoner. The summoner would outpreform the synthesist though in a party.
I am looking at the Druid's companion progression and seeing the real problem. Compare the Eidolon side by side with an animal companion and the difference is very clear. Eidolon's have more BaB then 3/4 characters, and with their evolutions are viable characters on their own. Bring the stat and BaB progression down to druid (edit: companion) levels and we will probably be good. The customization of the Eidolon should more then make up for the Druid's additional spells and other abilities.
I think the synthesist is only underpowered if you compare it directly to a normal summoner. The synthesist is in NO WAY weak compared to any of the Full BAB or 3/4 BAB classes.
You are right. Compared to fighters and Barbarians, he is very powerful and solid choice. The problem is we are dealing with the archetype, when the archetype isn't the problem. The problem is the summoner, fix him and the synthesist gets fixed as well. The synthesist is less powerful then the summoner.
How about Agile Maneuvers? Dex instead of Str to your CMB seems like something you really want. I see that Fury's Fall gives that on trip attacks, I wonder if the two feats would stack? In any case, if they don't, Agile Maneuvers would be just better for you since your STR modifier is negative.
Agile Maneuvers is far superior, but weapon finesse fills a similar role. I don't think I would need both, rather one or another.
I found out after posting that agile maneuvers/weapon finesse would not stack with Fury's Fall. Since they don't stack, I would say that Weapon Finesse can be used as a prereq for Fury's snare. For the purpose of Fury's Snare they do the exact same thing. I know I will get some argument on this point.
Actually, nope, it wouldn't apply (though there is some argument). Limbs (arms/legs) are not attacks but a -tool- to gain attacks through evolutions (slam/claws) or wield items, which are not treated as attacks per se even if wielding a weapon. The reach evolution must apply to a single attack the eidolon possesses, and the only way to actually possess an attack is to have a natural weapon.
I have a natural weapon. The claws. I am applying them to the claws, or if necessary one claw. This idea that it wouldn't also apply to the weapon in the claws hand is silly, and thematically impossible. Also, although the summoner is arguable OP, it doesn't really make that big of a difference. I could easily grab a two hander instead and have the reach without using an evolution. The only downside is I would be unable to attack adjacent enemies with that weapon. This isn't a problem as I will have a bite attack. I guess not everyone will have that, but they will have an extra evolution to spare as they are no longer getting reach. I suppose the damage would be less and non enhanced.
Sleet Storm wrote:
I guess its the consesus that Synthesits are OP.
You have it backward mate. Synthesists are underpowered. Being able to dump stats does not justify the loss of feats, actions available, and risk of death. A summoner can stand in the back, and cast spells from relative safety. A sythesist is right in the thick of it, and if he goes unconcious the character autodies similiar to a raging barbarian.
Since you are going summoner, not fighter there is a huge shortage of feats severely limiting your options. Sure you can get AC and lots of attacks, and great stats. The problem is you are nothing without your eidolon. You can summon smaller monsters and cast some spells, but you are optimized for him, and you dumped your con. If you have to go through a cave, hope he fits. If you are attacked at night, and don't have the summon eidolon spell. You are sidelined.
These aren't the big problems though. The bigger problem is what are you gaining out of this? You have a slightly faster feat progression then the eidolon and a better will save. By combining with him, he will have a few more feats. How much stronger is he really with you inside? Not much. If instead you have him fight, then you could stand back and buff. You could run up and heal him. You could even stand next to him and attack. You are versatile.
I think the synthesist should gain additional feats when merged with the eidolon. Not all of the feats the eidolon normally gets, maybe 1/3 progression. There is a good argument that the summoner is overpowered, and maybe the sythesist is as well. Regardless the summoner is far more powerful then the sythesist, and as a result I do not see the synthesist OP.
Sorry, I was vague. I have the whip, and the eidolon has a elven blade. If I apply reach to his limbs, that should apply reach to his weapon. I am really not sure how he could reach a target with his claws, but not his blade. Combat reflexes will work well as standing up provokes AoO and when I trip with greater trip, that also provokes.
My party has a wizard rogue that is bad ass. Have him reroll one, and this should fit the play style well.
Slow their level progression. If they are rocking these encounters, see how they do when they are a few levels lower then they should be. Any encounter where the monsters can only hit on a 20 should award 10 or 20% exp. If the encounter isn't a challenge, they are not learning.
These are good ideas. After discussing this with you guys I realized the perfect class (I think) to choose would be a summoner, believe it or not. The number of feats is nearly on par with a fighter (when combining the feats from the Edilon) and you can synergize. I figured I could pick up whirlwind attack and greater trip (13 levels it will take for both :-() and he can pick up combat reflexes, power attack, and a weapon proficiency. I stand either behind or next to him and start tripping. Once they stand up, he finishes them off. Once I have greater trip it is all over. He will get the reach evolution and large once possible. Sounds cool.
I am not really sure what RAW says, but my DM lets me trip flying creatures. It makes sense, orientation to the ground is important for non magic flyers, and if you can disrupt that, they should fall.
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:
I didn't realize you could use it with a trip maneuver. I also thought the sneak attack would be divided evenly. These are very interesting ideas. Very cool!
Have you considered the Bard class? It's like rogue, except better. The Archeaologist archetype most blatantly, but even normal bard does skills better and will allow you to buff your CMB a bit with inspire courage. And comes with whip proficiency.
I briefly thought about it, but I want someone who can also disable traps. Bards are a solid class though.
Edit: I didn't realize Bards could disable traps. That is interesting.
Two levels in Maneuver Master monk will give you Improved Trip and Combat Reflexes, without the need for Combat Expertise if you don't really want to take it. Sets you back one on BaB though. Really love the concept and the well thought out build. I'm unfamiliar with the Fury's feats, where are they from?
I do need combat expertise as I want Greater Trip as well. The fury feats are from 'Pathfinder Companion: Cheliax, Empire of Devils.', I find all of this stuff from d20pfsrd.com.
Half Orc alternate racial trait will get you whip proficiency & Darkvision. It would free up a feat/talent for you as well.
I am using the Elf skill focus feat to get the whip proficiency. An alternate racial trait allows this. So it costs the same as going orc. I considered going orc, but they do not give you two favored classes. Half elf nets and extra 4 hp, on top of the darkvision and whip proficiency offered by the orc.
The Agile weapon enchantment will allow you to use Dex for damage.
Now we are talking! A whip is still a one handed weapon though right? I cannot apply dex and half to it could I?
I doesn't create an illusion of my missiles or of the fighter hitting the image. You see only one set of missiles attacking one target. The fact that all of the images wince is irrelevant. Remember baseball? Keep your eye on the ball? Same thing only the ball is the missile.
Nor will we get one. OP has a grudge against spontaneous casters for some reason and he won't say why.
OP if you really think crafting magic items is OP, why don't you suggest a rule that makes it harder for all casters, not just Bards and Sorcs? Also spellcasters have knowledge of spells and arcane stuff. Sorcs should know much more then a fighter about spells not on his list as he specialized in magic. Sorcs should have a much easier time crafting magic items then a fighter. If a character has to have a spell on his spell list to make a magic item, then non casters should not be allowed to craft magic items period.
Not really. Monks effectively have full BaB when flurrying. When two weapon fighting you take a -2 to both attacks, when flurrying you take a -1. It evens out as though the monk had full BaB.
Edit: It gives you two weapon fighting for free that can be used as a standard action. It isn't as good as flurrying as a 20th level monk, but it is better then two weapon fighting.
As far as the armor, you would need to get dex and wisdom to a respectable level and take a fighter archtype that gives dodge bonuses instead of armor training. The archtypes are great, but survivable. Also pickup some AC bracers.
It wouldn't work for every two weapon fighter character and would break many builds, but it is viable.
The feats you really need, and since they come from the last, pure PFRPG supplement instead of a 3.5 adventure module, are the Whip Mastery + Improved + Greater feats. Plus the traits I suggested previously. For I built a whip master recently, I do not even understand why you would try to get the Fury feat tree, ...
Yeah I am starting to realize that. I figure having lots of backup whips and entangling them could be fun, problem is breaking free isn't going to be a challenge for 90% of the monsters. I am going to drop the fury feats from the build.
which means even all your feats cannot save you from suffering at low levels. And I include Disarm because it is a must-have in the arsenal of any whip fighter (greater trip/disarm on attack of opportunity will produce much tears and sweat); for which I also WARMLY recommend the Lore Warden archetype.
Yeah, I already saw the Lore Warden archtype :-), that is definitely part of the build. The extra 2 skill ranks per level was icing on the cake.
The idea I am thinking about is going for a Dex based build, which would mean dumping str. This would greatly lower the damage, so I am thinking of maximizing sneak attack for those times when I am not tripping. I am thinking of getting summon wands to help. Summon minor monster combined with whirlwind attack would get several sneak attacks. I would have to get a higher level wand so it lasts longer then one round though. I even considered a dip into summoner so I could just toss flank buddies out there for me.
Do I really need to get the disarm feats? I am strapped for feats as is, and I am not worried about AoO since I am striking from a range. I was planning on disarming without the feats, since I should be good already especially with the lore warden bonus.
Note how there isn't any damage-increasing feat in this list. Do you HAVE to follow the RAW 100% or may your GM be reasonable on the topic ?
He is pretty reasonable. This character is probably not going to actually be used though as we already have a rogue. I just playing around with the build for fun.
Synthesists use the Eidolons BaB when fused. This is nice for non multiclassing characters as the BaB is higher. But if I want to multiclass, my eidolon's BaB will end up in the toilet. It would be nice to have something similar to boon companion, or even better an ability that allows you to use your own statistics if higher. Something like this:
Absorb Caster Essence
An fused eidolon absorbs the caster's BaB and physical ability scores when they are higher then his own. Eidolons do not need to absorb all of the scores, only the ones higher then his own.
Your Eidolon's BaB and HD are calculated as though your summoner level was 4 higher, to a maximum effective summoner level equal to your character level. This does not effect skills, feats, ability scores, or max attacks.
Actually that kinda makes sense. Your eyes are lying to you, close them and you will not get wrong information. Although it is better just to swing at them, as your odds get better each swing.
Nothing ironic about that, adding both Str and Dex would be good for most fighters. If this feat does nothing for me, then why do I need to take it? Does agile manuevers or weapon finesse count as a prereq for Fury's snare instead of Fury's fall? Otherwise I should get dex twice.
This whip rules is really annoying. I need to take whip mastery to bypass natural armor, but the scorpion whip does that already. It is a useless feat that I am taking just so I can take the next one in the line. I would never take weapon focus without it being a prereq, but at least I am getting a benefit from it.
Really guys? Listen, yes magic missile will always hit the correct image. The reason this is not as effective as you think is because the images are constantly moving. It is like the shell game. Sure everyone will know which one is real for a brief moment, but then the images move around some more (and the caster will likely move some too) and you don't know anymore. Remember you are not doing anything different from the fighter who rolls lucky and hits the correct image.
That being said you brought up an interesting idea. If everyone timed their attack with your missile, they may be able to get one free shot. If everyone readied an action to shoot/swing once the missile hit, then I think they would hit the correct image for that attack only.
The spell duration will be stuck at Level 3 unless you can find magic items that would change this. It is not clear why the familiar can cast greater invisibility. If this is a sorcerer bloodline ability, then it would stay at 3 rounds. If it is a racial ability, then it should increase it's duration as you level up. I am curious about this myself, but you will need to figure it out with your dm.
Faery Dragon is pretty bad ass to begin with, allowing them to level up would be too much.
I am doing the same thing in my game, so I have been looking into that particular familiar quite a bit. You should be able to choose it's available spell list. RAW doesn't discuss this, but as long as they are spells focused on trickery it should be fine. Discuss it first with your DM. I swapped out two spells for ant haul and detect magic. My dragon will be flying the halfling rogue into better positions during combat.
I am playing around with a rogue build, and I was hoping for some feedback. The character will focus on AoO and tripping. He will wield a whip and will trip, entangle (fury's snare), and use wands. I am thinking silent image will probably be the more common wand, but web and entangle will likely be common as well. I cannot believe how feat intensive whips are.
He will be a drow blooded half elf. I figure a rogue should have darkvision even if it gives him light sensitivity. He will take a few levels of the fighter archtype lore warden. His stats will be:
Here is the feat chain:
1 Fighter 1 [race] Exotic Weapon Prof (Whip), [level] Antagonize [class] Weapon Finesse,
And the skills
(points per level) Skill Name: (1) Acrobatics, (1) Perception, (1) Disable Device, (1) Use Magic Device, (.75) Diplomacy, (.75) Intimidate, (.5) Bluff, (.5) Sense Motive, (.5) Stealth, (.5) Slight of Hand, (.25) Disguise
For those unfamiliar with Lore Warden:
Edit: I can trip everyone within range with Whirlwind Attack right? I should probably get that feat earlier.
If have a whip and I plan on tripping people with it, which feat would I need? Would agile manuvers allow me to trip with my whip (excuse the rhyme :-)). I noticed the FAQ mentions that weapon finesse would allow me to do this, but do I have the choice of either feat? I would rather have Agile Manuevers so that I can use dex to escape grapples without pumping escape artist.
Edit: And as a follow up question, does the scorpion whip allow AoO? If I get a regular whip and the Opportunist rogue talent, would I be allowed to take the AoO generated by the rogue talent with a whip?
In other news, even though she loves animals, my witch isn't exactly set up for training them. Low Chr and no ranks in Survival. Or Diplomacy. :P
Handle animal is the skill you use, and you don't need to be the trainer. You can hire someone, or use another party member. I wonder if your fox could teach them, if you put some ranks in there, he would have them too. Plus he can communicate with others of his kind, that has to give him a bonus to training. What is his charisma?
or walls of stone raise up first round to block exits, fence them all in while some aoe kills them. make the top of the walls have sharp spikes pointed inwards to stop people from climbing over.
Have we learned nothing from black friday? Create a 2 foot wide exit in your wall and cast fear! MUHAHAHAA
Edit: Wait. Grease the area too! Slide into savings!
All dragon's can cast spells. Really what you are interested in is whether they can talk, and whether or not they have hands. Claws capable of grasping weapons count as hands. If they can hold weapons, then they can cast spells with somatic components. If they can speak common without special training (birds require training to talk), then they can cast spells with verbal components. Dragons can do both of these things. Using feats such as silent spell and still spell would allow you to cast those spells in any form. There is also a feat called natural spell that will allow you to cast in any form.
The save allows you to move out of the way and avoid getting the grease on the object. If you cast it on a weapon and fail the save, you drop the object, otherwise your sword is not greased. Otherwise they would make a reflex save every round to continue holding the item.
I nearly went the illusion route myself, but it seems you don't really get much better then silent image. That spell alone can do 90% of what the whole school is capable of. The best part of the spell is often, there isn't a save. You don't need to specialize and actually could get away with using a wand.
Haunted Fey Aspect. Please tell me why anyone would use this spell? Give it an hour duration and maybe it will be worth a spell slot, otherwise forget it.
I like the idea of creating an illusion consisting of just heat, that is a good idea.
I have read the links before and I am really hoping someone proves me totally wrong.
I sorta get that. I think my DM would rule that the illusion would need to be concentrated on for me to force it to react to an enemy appropriatly.
Go Gnome or Human. Pick up the effortless trickery feat (get racial heritage as well if human), you can maintain a single illusion spell as a swift action. Use it for silent image and you are set. I would cast ghost sound first and give it a delay of one round, then follow with silent image and you have a minor image. You could also get improved familiar and pick up a familiar capable of casting ghost sound and work together.
You could maintain one illusion while doing other stuff, or maintain two and effectively take several enemies out of combat by distracting them.
The problem I have with allowing this is you are making it a benefit to not have a spell on your list. A bard has the spell snapdragon fireworks on his list as a level 2 spell. It is a level 1 spell for wizards. It would be better for the bard to not have the spell on his list as it is preventing him from researching it and getting it at first level.
Ciaran Barnes wrote:
If you are only going 100 feet, the spell will work fine. You will have to cast it twice and probably walk along the bottom. Sounds like the barrels are the best bet though.
Petition a boon from your mighty lord to grant you the power if a dragon (epic quest). Capturing the essence if a red or gold dragon, it merges with you, granting the half-dragon template
The half dragon template doesn't mention immunities.
Wind Chime wrote:
Eidolons can get it as a 3 point evolution, hellknights get it as a 10th level ability, dragon disciple get it I think and I think one of the higher level sourcery bloodlines gives it.
It is a 2 point evolution, it sounds like you would need a 7 point dip into summoner sythesist to gain it. Maybe there would be a feat to count other class levels towards the 7th level limit?