thedarkelf007's page

I just read Rite Publishings response (and included spells) and I agree that the spells could be abused, but I could abuse spells in the core books more.

I'd also add the Wish and Miracle are better constrained in Pathfinder than in 3.5 and I am grateful for the text that a wish may pervert your intent if taken outside those constraints and a miracle may be refused if not inline with your deities beliefs.

So using wish or miracle is not part of the constrained part of the true love spell and risks the results after expending the costly components...

I could live with that as a GM as a potential way to undo the true love aspect.

Thanks for the extra info on the spells, it's nice to know the inspiration for them, and had convinced me to look at picking it up, and for Hero Lab as well :)

In my games I have the following:
- all forms of coming back to life does exist
- very few people want to come back (mainly hero's)
- marriage, titles, inheritance and positions of power are death till us part (as none of these can affect a soul in the afterlife)
- oaths of service to a higher power is usually beyond death till us part such as clerics, paladins, deity worshiped and such (as these do affect ones stay in the afterlife)

With the repercussions of coming back from the dead, and clerics (or anyone able to ask higher powers questions) can tell when someone has been brought back or when they have died.

This adds amusement to games where they have created a will for their character to make sure the holdings are "kept in the family".

But on the serious side, it fits in with a setting where raising the dead is possible, but not common.

Even breath of life triggers the "I have died" clause of these rules, and in my game generates a new ID for the hero in question so I can keep track of how many lives a player has gone through in a campaign (new characters are treated the same as characters who have died for the purpose of id tracking).

This also stops the "it's just death" approach I have faced with players and temporarily loosing their character.

In some games, I have also imposed a geas/quest on any character that is not of the same alignment as the god which is bringing them back to life where they have to further the cause of that god in the next 12 months (a specific quest)

This also helps people decide that it might be better to stay dead, or inspire them to be more heroic (and careful) in this next life.

On the plus side, very few of my players want to risk death for their characters now that they have holdings to loose....

I'd rather D&D stay separate to pathfinder.

They have each gone in different directions and while it would be nice to see some of the licensed 3.5 monsters appear in pathfinder, I like the pathfinder game as it is. Golarion feels more solid than most of the D&D settings I have run.

D&D Next will bring some people back, gain a new following and continue the brand. They have a history of worlds to pick from, each with comics, video games, novels.

I'm sure they will looking into another cartoon like the clone wars which then gives them another brand of toys on a license they own.

Just imagine if they went and turned each of their settings into cartoons. I did like the Dragonlance one, and while I wished for more of the story, I did enjoy it.

I have four games I run, each using XP differently.

1 - an adventure path, where not being an appropriate level will kill the party. I went through each section determined the encounter level, worked out what progression would leave the boss encounter at Hard and then worked to set party character level gains at dramatically appropriate times, including extra treasure drops. This can be good and bad, all characters are the same level, but no one feels the need to side quest unless some treasure is involved.

2 - a dungeon crawl. All characters start at 0 xp, gain xp for being at a session, and gain the following XP as if they are a single character facing a challenge of the average party level: First Session, Below average party level, surviving the session. What this means is that low level characters can level quickly, and that new characters are not unbalancing the game with magical items not obtained in game. Players find it a pain, but just watch their smile when they are told they just gained 5 levels. With the XP boost, missing a session just means you might qualify for extra XP, and that characters even out their levels.

Longest running characters are at 11th level, new characters are at 6, 8 and 9th level with average party level being 8.

3 - a shadowrun game where I gave everyone 4 karma for every game session, no matter when they joined. Lead to people bringing in new experience characters, trying new concepts, and less paperwork. Trialing giving Karma based on adventures, but not as much fun to run.

4 - a star wars d6 game with 5 character points for their character being in a session. If they can get another player to run their character they still get the experience, but if it dies it dies. This also works well, except when players don't care about killing off other players characters.

Each game has the experience method planned and written down before players join, and the agree upon for that campaign. But as it is a game and not a dictatorship, I negotiate with the players for the things I want to happen in the game, and how I want to run it, with what they want in the game and how they want it run. This does not always work, but it is a good starting point :)

I liked Epic level goodness.

Some of the pathfinder spells (Mass Cure Critical Wounds) are designed to be cast above 20th level, but there is not any real support for higher level play.

Also I liked Beholders and some of the named spells, but that comes from running D&D BECMI rules.

I've called for initiative outside of combat when the party can't decide on what they want to do with everyone wanting to do something different.

If they can't decide what to at any given encounter, I call for initiative and have them resolve what they are doing in that order.

This has saved some squabbles at the game table, and caused others. Because some players see initiative as a combat only mechanic even if the GM states you don't have the time to argue what to do, roll initiative to see who gets to act first.

Their excuse was they were not listening to the GM, heard initiative and attacked anything not the party.

I tend to give lots of hints about an encounter before the players roll their dice, but only players to listen actually understand what the encounter is and don't rush in straight away.

For me using initiative means a trick situation which could be the start of combat, or just something where timing is important, like a trap room puzzle, or convincing someone their not their enemy.

Depending on your campaign you might also have rarity for spells being harder to get from supplements.

I have also had divine casters need to obtain prayer books for spells outside the core book as well, this adds some extra book keeping for the divine casters, but adds interesting flavour when they chase down that elusive prayer book for the spells they were after.

That and the prayer book might not be for their god. :)

This is a rpg choice, and I count any money spent on the prayer books as part of their tithing to the church.

And old Angband or moria if you know the single player version of the ascii dungeon crawl had books for each of the classes to learn their spells from.

I have a no reward or xp for missing players. Makes players show up more often if they risk missing out on things, and start to fall behind the other characters.

Though I also have a bonus for characters who are below the average party level, so they can catch up.

Also have the late player wait till their is a logical break in the game for their character to show up, as missing player usually means character not there as well.

I've stated this up from for my games, also noting that if they can convince another player to play their character they will be included in the rewards, but they need to arrange that before the game starts.

And they know I generally start at a set time every game so its no great surprise to see the game already started if they are late.

While Rappan Athuk is super deadly, I added a few tweaks that seem to be working well. Characters at 32 point build, and bonus hit points equal to their con score at first level.

This has made them surprisingly well suited to the adventure style, and while there have been three deaths in about 10 sessions, they were accepted by the group as part of the challenge.

If you're looking for something bigger than a single module, my favorite has to be Rappan Athuk Reloaded.

I second this.

Though the Pathfinder version is superior, a large single book with everything you need inside, except also needing the Tomb of Horror by Frog God Games. I'm running this now. Other books required are Core Rules and Bestiary 1. Nothing else is needed to run it. Players have a wilderness and a dungeon. Rappan Athuk has Hero Lab files, d20Pro files and is based on a first edition feel.

Also Worlds Largest Dungeon (3.5) a dungeon where your tossed inside the entrance and have to find the exit. Another all in one book. This is solely a dungeon crawl with escape from the dungeon being the sole goal, survival, XP, Treasure, Levels all link to escape... without gaining these they are doomed to die.

Expedition to Undermoutain (3.5) an interesting run, look at all the expedition series and they could be a good campaign like and of the adventure paths.

Do your players pull this kind of crap on you? Or do I just have a unique blend of emotional sadists in my group?

** spoiler omitted **...

Hey RD, that sucks when players try to manipulate you like that, and I'm sure your not the only one.

I've had quite a few over the years. As I have moved states away from those who I grew up with it makes taking such [insert foul language] hard to tolerate.

I've let it slide a few times, but generally only once per person.

Here is a tactic I recommend for the next time that he does it.

Pretend its serious, have a "intervention", even schedule in new "replacement" characters for the next session.

About once a month I get a new player from the community into one of the games I run, sometimes they stay, and if they are any good they get into more of my games.

But as I recruit players for the six games that I am involved in (four I run) so its easier for me to replace players. I also admin the local games forum and have a pool of eager to jump in players.

So what I actually did to one player who pulled something similar to me (a second time) was send out a game cancelled email to everyone explaining the conversation and dropping the player responsible in the deep end, then announce that I was willing to continue the game for all those interested in playing on no matter the issues, and would be auditioning for a replacement player for those who were leaving (stating said player had confirmed he was leaving) and did they know anyone else they would like to play with.

Strangely enough that player never tried that crap on me again out of game, and in game it was up to the other players to deal with him.

There have been other manipulators, but those that try it in game end up giving the other players (and my wife) something to laugh about as they crash and burn on their own devices...

Replacing disruptive players is hard when its a friend, but its a game, and if you can't enjoy the game then eventually you'll stop playing.

The GM must have fun too, though not at the expense of the players, while the players have a right to have fun, though not at expense of the GM. When you strike a good balance, the game is a joy and seems to run itself.

Sometimes the threat of replacement is enough.

Cleave has changed

3.5 - if you drop a creature to 0 or less hit points you can strike another creature within reach

PF - if you make a cleave attack as a standard action, and you hit, you can make another attack against a foe that is adjacent to the first and also within reach.

Quite a change for the cleave ability and tripped up a few of my players as it provides a extra attack without having to kill the first target, but must have the second target next to it.

Banizal wrote:

Druids and Clerics only require 1 hour to pray/meditate to regain their spells...they do not require rest (though they will get negative conditions i.e. fatigued -> exhausted) or even consecutive hours of prayer/meditation.

Don't forget the following rule though:

"As with arcane spells, at the time of preparation any spells cast within the previous 8 hours count against the number of spells that can be prepared."

Generally, you rest for 8 hours (not casting anything) and then pray for your spells. The rest isn't technically required, but the 8 hours of not casting spells is (if you want a full spell compliment for the coming day).

Not sure if anyone responded to this yet but:

Clerics meditate or pray for their spells. Each cleric must choose a time when she must spend 1 hour each day in quite contemplation or supplication to regain her daily allotment of spells. So while a wizard or sorcerer can rest to regain spells a cleric has to wait for the allocated time.

As a GM I allow the recharging of wands, it just costs the per charge cost of making the wand in the first place.

What I also allow is to have multiple spells loaded into the same wand with an 1.5 increase in cost for all spells past the primary.

This makes loosing one far worse, but less to have to carry, and with command words worked out, quite a nasty surprise for people to have to deal with...

When doing it I have the charges for spells separate, though you could combine them like a staff, but not sure how I would cost it.

And does it say anywhere that a wand must be a stick, a dagger might fit into the specs of a wand as a metal wand is a possibility in the description ;)

Though that's all up to how flexible a GM you have.

In one of my current campaigns I have given the players extra hit points equal to their constitution score. This makes them less squishy and more heroic.

No extra rules needed, play as it comes and so far only two player deaths on the 5th session (one was killed by the party on purpose) and they are 10 sessions in and some on 4th level and going strong.

This is running through the Rappan Athuk adventure book.

I allow Eschew Materials to be taken multiple times, it multiplies the value of components you can go without by 10 after the first feat. So having it at the third level gives you 100 gp of material components. This may not seem like much, but when you allow it to work with making magical items as well, then it adds up and becomes more useful.

Now this is a house rule, and as a GM I make the players keep track of components costing 1 gp or more if they have a spell component pouch or Eschew materials.

If they have neither then I ask they keep track of their spell components till they do so.

Wizards when they prepare their spells they also prepare their spell component pouch for the spells they have ready, so they should not have to dig through too many items for each spell they cast.

You could be cruel and state they prepare spells components for a particular implementation of that spell so limiting the number of components needed to cast that day.

Not that I have done that yet.

thedarkelf007 wrote:

DrDeth wrote:

thedarkelf007 wrote:

- All new characters start at 1st level, its up to the players to keep new characters alive long enough to be effective in the game.

We used to do this Old School, and it is no fun for anyone. Not for the player, who can't contribute, not for the party who have to share resources with a useless PC and also have to keep him alive, and not for the DM who can't use certain things like Fireball as even with a save a 1st is dead.

It may work a little now, but as the level disparity gets higher, it won't.

I may relax this rule with higher level characters, but I expect them to be more roleplay than roll play. Smart play can account for level disparity and still make it fun to play.

As long as it is fun for the group, then we will still do it...

And what is fun for my group might not be the same for everyone else.

This is currently being played in a dungeon crawl where we spend half the game laughing at the antics our characters get up to and the roleplaying they have done to save themselves.

Smart play only goes so far on the scale of compensation. and the only way a 1st level character can survive in a party of level 3 or higher characters is if he minmaxes his defenses, never engages in combat encounters appropriate to the higher level characters and has the party expends resources to keep him alive.

but then, it is no longer smart play but "lets have the party waste resources protecting the weakling."

they do have 32 point buy and their con added to their hit points.

i.e. I have 1st level wizards with 20 hp. So they are not as fragile as normal.

thedarkelf007 wrote:

- All new characters start at 1st level, its up to the players to keep new characters alive long enough to be effective in the game.

We used to do this Old School, and it is no fun for anyone. Not for the player, who can't contribute, not for the party who have to share resources with a useless PC and also have to keep him alive, and not for the DM who can't use certain things like Fireball as even with a save a 1st is dead.

It may work a little now, but as the level disparity gets higher, it won't.

I may relax this rule with higher level characters, but I expect them to be more roleplay than roll play. Smart play can account for level disparity and still make it fun to play.

As long as it is fun for the group, then we will still do it...

And what is fun for my group might not be the same for everyone else.

This is currently being played in a dungeon crawl where we spend half the game laughing at the antics our characters get up to and the roleplaying they have done to save themselves.

thedarkelf007 wrote:

I've experienced this including players stating "lets just jump of the cliff here and die so we can respawn in town". it was around this time I re-evaluated the threat of death to player characters.

1.) I call b$!%+##*.

2.) How are they going to "respawn" if there's nobody around to resurrect them after taking their bodies back to the town?

3.) There's nothing that says you have to allow Raise Dead be an option for morons.

1 - I did that.

2 - They were going to "create" new characters with the same stats as their plan. When I pointed out it would be a TPK and no more campaign, they laughed. The threat of death was so removed with new characters at the same level they were not invested in the characters, or the story.

3 - They considered death and creating a new character a form of raise dead when they started at the same level.

As you might imagine I was not amused with this plan and ended up closing that gaming group not long after as it was not fun to run with such attitudes.

I have had those players in other games since, and they have understood the death has a meaning in my new campaigns is because of their antics and go out of their way "not" to die in these games.

While reading through part of this thread I thought I would answer it from the perspective of a couple of games I have run.

New characters coming back at the same level of the party can make death more of a rule reason for more loot, especially when the *new* character is just the old character with a different name.

I've experienced this including players stating "lets just jump of the cliff here and die so we can respawn in town". it was around this time I re-evaluated the threat of death to player characters.

My last Rise of the Runelords game had many character deaths and by the end of it only one character was a starting character... So that also had an issue on why they were doing the adventure. It ended with a total party kill against the runelord. Was considered a good campaign by the players as it proved that the hero's were not going to win every time.

I run two campaigns now:

Curse of the Crimson Throne - all player characters are related in one way or the other, if they die, there will have to be a funeral.

Rappan Athuk, all characters are enhanced, have extra hit points equal to their constitution, and 32 point buy characters.

In both of these campaigns I have set the following rules:
- All new characters start at 1st level, its up to the players to keep new characters alive long enough to be effective in the game
- Resurrection is at the discretion of the clerics patron, and will require a service for any *non faithful* and will only raise those within one step of their alignment
- Any death is death. Marriage, service, Will, or anything that is specified for the life of the character becomes void when they die. This sets events into action where magic is used to inform of deaths.
- Any forms of returning from death adds the returnee to the god of deaths list to be recovered at the earliest opportunity
- abandoning a quest from resurrection results in the god sending its own agents to claim to lost soul and regain its spent power in the form of killing the raised character
- The afterlife of a character is given up when resurrected

These are all roleplaying issues, that the players have agreed to as a good way to make death have meaning in the game.

Now players don't want to die or be resurrected more than once. While they grumble about starting at 1st level with new characters, they like how the roleplaying has gone around it, and how higher level characters have to look after the new characters to the group.

use the rise of the runelords players companion, should be free to download from the main site.

I'd say yes as well...

though I do have a few games where players express their characters a little too much to the point of hooking up with NPC's...

NPC's suggest, but have no *roll* to convince players to do things, they request, threaten, bluff and bribe to get what they want.

Players at any time can call a stop (not just the player involved), but I let them roleplay what situation they want up to the point anyone else becomes uncomfortable with it.

If its something I don't want in the game, then its just not going to happen. Things can be implied, but no rape or things that players don't want will happen to their characters.

For example: players can be very attached to their familiars, so no putting them on the battle grid means they can't be targeted... but those who use them in combat open them selves up for attack.

Slightly off topic, but the thought is the same, if the player character does not want to roleplay seduction or be rules lawyered into it then it shouldn't happen.

i.e. Other player/gm rolls, yay I win seduction roll, effected player character laughs "maybe you should come back when your equipment is up to size" and walks out... annoying player succeeded, but nothing says the character has to go through with the act... the more you torture the person, the less likely they will try that again on you

Works well for me. Though I did have one player take it too far on his own character he had to retire it while everyone else cringed at his inappropriate erotic play at the game table with an NPC he seduced.

He learnt that taking it too far was a bad thing and loss of character was a suitable punishment

I would not be too fussed, upset yes, but more at myself.

What level are the PC's, if they don't have access to resurrection (either through party power, or wealth) then it is a little unfair.

Otherwise it is par the course.

Though remember that a lot of things like land, marriage and inheritance are based on till death so dying can raise some interesting questions.

I have a standing rule that any character who can't afford to be resurrected or does not have the spell power at hand can be brought back from the dead by the gods.

Now this is usually at a greater cost than if done by normal means, and usually involves person quests for the god in question, relating to the reason they died, and what that god's portfolio was.

As an example: a player in one of my games (his first tabletop) found his character married off in the first session with the wife being killed overnight by the local bad guy. This was a plot point to engage the party as they were invested in the wedding as we roleplayed it happening.

Then chasing the bad guy to his lair, the players character was death touched and died as a result. All in the first session.

So the gods intervened and brought him back with the task of resurrecting his wife. Unfortunately her soul had been stolen by a fiend and became the focus of the character from then onwards.

64 sessions later (4 years real time playing 3.5), at level 36 he managed to wrestle her spirit from Orcus himself and the campaign ended on a high note.

So while death sucks, its how the players and GM's handle it in game that matter.

And adding quests for resurrection can be fun :)

Also having players create a will for their characters before starting a campaign and pulling it out when they die, and having NPC's trying to enforce their wishes adds alot of RP opportunities.

Disney has used star wars merchandise for many years, so not really a surprise.

Good to see more movies coming, maybe they will be better then the last, we can only hope

I bought the Slumbing Tsar and Rappan Athuk from the kickstarter project. My players were warned up front that it is a deadly dungeon crawl where any encounter could kill them.

They received their Con as bonus XP and had a 32 attribute build.

And going old school of only XP if the character is in the encounter.

But they are loving it, we RP most sessions with maybe one encounter over 4 hrs, sometimes two. Last session their encounter was under a bridge, huddled in the dark being splashed at from the river by migrating trout that scared them half to death...

Now they have not even scratched the surface of the campaign, three sessions in, and have spend more than half their time in town.

Like any adventure, it has stats, encounters, and puzzles, but most importantly it does not have a timeline, or a railroad.

They can go where they want, when they want.

I'm doing the same with Curse of the Crimson Throne to an extent, making the AP encounters just one of many happening as part of an integrated background for the players, so they have an investment in the setting and reason to fight for it.

So for these two campaigns, no more books are needed, I have everything I need. I will buy more, but that's for personal reasons (gotta collect them all..)

I also run Star Wars d6. Now that is an old system, no longer supported, but still fun. There are plenty of games out there that are fantastic and could suit your group, game style and quality.

The guys here put out a great product, but if its not what your looking for, don't buy it, if it is, enjoy the fact that they can still make it, and their prices are within reason.

In Australia I pay Import tax and stupid Aussie tax on computer games and software, often double the US prices. Now these might not be real taxes, but they feel that way, so I find other means to get things I want including overseas purchase.

If a gaming group invested $50 per player, bought a couple of players guides and one adventure path, and the bestiaries it uses, then they would not need any more books for six to twelve months (mine took 2 years). And for that timeframe its not a large investment for a hobby when a weekly laser tag can cost $25 or what ever the WoW subscription is these days.

So from a pricing perspective, Pathfinder is one of the cheapest entry level games out there (its even got a beginner box) and at least its still supported and evolving.

Thanks guys, and as predicted my book turned up the following day.

It ended with a TPK and close of the campaign. Some of the players believed they should have gained more XP for using windwalk to reach the tower and avoid the town completely...

They fought Karzoug at 14th level... very messy.

Hi All,

I've been waiting and waiting for my Rise of the Runelords Anniversary edition book to arrive (ordered locally in Australia), and it was due this morning but did not get here.

Tonight my group is facing Karzoug, I was hoping to use the official pathfinder stats for him to top off an epic campaign. (44 sessions)

I'd done conversions on the fly for the other characters through out the campaign hoping this would turn up earlier. But its the last session and I'd like to use an epic wizard built by the paizo guys instead of some semi conversion I've found online.

I expect the book to arrive tomorrow morning now, with the campaign over before I even get to open the book cover.

My game is in 5.5 hrs from this post, so any form of assistance would be appreciated.

I would expect all the gods to be for marriage is a small manner, just because they want more followers...

The easiest followers to get are those brought up by parents of the religion.

Otherwise the preachers converting believers of another faith are the only way to gain new followers.

Any religion against marriage, risks the followers converting to another faith that allows marriage and weakening its previous faith as followers walk out on it.

This could also lead to religions pushing celibacy before marriage so that the faithful are only producing more faithful. Not that many of the followers would pay attention to that one...

Having NPC's or PC's fall pregnant and the child bring raised by an NPC of a different religion has caused some interesting RP opportunities.

My ONLY issue with HeroLab is that you have to pay money for each supplement and it starts to add up after a while. After already paying money for the book/pdf then again to use Herolab just is not cost effective for me. I understand why they do from a business point of view and they do make a wonderful product if you are willing to pay for each supplement.

yes supplements cost, but you get about 3-5 books per $10 usually, and they do do bundles. I think all up it is about $150 so far (I could be wrong) for all the pathfinder books released to date.

Depending on what your are running, you won't need most of them, only get what you want to use in your campaign and it will keep the costs down.

I use all the books so have all the supplements. Some friends use only the core rules so have it and pick up the bestiary...

If your going to do other systems they also cater for it is $20 extra per base rules set to include.

And it is fairly easy to extend with customization as you need.

Oh might also add that attacking the NPC's associated with a characters background does not fall under the don't kill my character rule ;)

Yes.

I do it fairly regularly, but I run four games a fortnight, and each has 6-7 player characters in them so a chance of up to 28 different characters deaths in any given fortnight.

With no risk of death, there is no penalty for doing something stupid.

The base concept of you killing the characters is rubbish (it feels that way, but it is false) the player controlling the character puts it into that situation in the first place and they have to accept it is their fault the character died.

Dice can be cruel, GM's can be cruel... but unless the player is in the game with their character, it can't be killed.

(off screen deaths while amusing are not the topic here)

As a player I hate loosing my character, but sometimes they are making the sacrifice that saves the party, I like to play the hero, so character death is always over my head. I plan for failure in all my games and build contigency plans to cover most situation, be that technology, magic or just teamwork.

The worst feeling is when the description of a creature or encounter is what gets you killed because the GM thought something was obvious and had it out for your character in the first place having played in one of your campaigns...

You as the GM are the story teller, the keeper of the environment and the world, and the emotions and attachments that are connected with it.

So a character dies, make it epic, make the fallout something to be remembered, give the character dying some final words, one standard action, something to go out with a bang...

Then have it mean something to the opponents, i.e. a morale bonus... taunt the remaining PC's... that sort of thing.

Also have the characters work out a will for what happens to their characters stuff and share when they die. Some family member somewhere, and ratified with the churches so that it is enforceable upon death.

Then when they are resurrected in games with that magic, all their worldly goods are deeded to their next of kin.

(Depending on how many games someone has played with me, pooling money for resurrection if possible from their share is added after the first death)

Games where life after death should not fear death, only total party kills... no one left to bring you back.

Though also in my games, those brought back from the dead are always changed in some manner... but that's just my worlds ;)

In the games where death is not allowed.... well loss of limb, crippling , disfigurement, cursed, blinded, polymorphed, stupified... well they are always an option and stick to the no deaths rule, but are far more horrifying to deal with as they still have their character, but not quite as it was...

And yet players still come back to my games, sign up for as long as I am running them and even have stand in players for when a ongoing player can't make the game so I must be doing something right ;)

I would use Hero Lab found here www.wolflair.com as they have pathfinder as one of many game sets they support with regular updates.

The only down side is the price, but that is not really an obstacle as it is $30 US to get the first game system.

The main cost comes from using all the supplements.

I have Pathfinder (all supplements) and Shadowrun (all supplements) and have written my own Star Wars d6 version.

I use this in five games over a fortnight, while it has some bugs, overall it is up to date with the errata, covers the new set of books around the time they make it to my local store and have a great support network.

You want house rules, easy to add in, you don't know how to do something, ask, someone answers...

And it can export to d20Pro or Fantasy Grounds so works well with that

I've used excel spreadsheets in the past, not fantastic, but not as good as round by round tracking including monsters, and keeping players honest about what they are carrying or options they have taken...

Weight penalties are auto-calculated or turned off as you desire... so many options available I would not want to go back to just pencil and paper...

I also have it running during the session which makes things easier to cope with. If you want more info just send me a PM and I'd be happy to chat about it offline.

I'm also beta testing their Realm Works and I think it combined with Hero Lab and d20Pro is a fantastic electronic setup for a game...

I'm against the gunslinger with the ranged touch attack and high damage every round. Might have just been the build used in my game, but I won't be seeing one of those any time soon again.

Try the new claases, its worth the test, worst case you can pull a character that is not fun to play and swap it with a new one as a testing phase...

As for the extra spell options, awesome, can make different concepts and styles without having to create and balance your own custom spells...

The more choices the better I feel.

As for words of power, only good if you have an imagination, not all players do, so you can custom up more spells than you would have in your spellbook as a wizard (or other prepared casters) and lots of flexibility as a spontaneous caster, just could use some work and expansion as it is only a core set of mechanics.

I will be trialing it in a dungeon crawl campaign to see how well it works from the spontaneous perspective.

thedarkelf007 wrote:

Hey for my current games I have specified that the characters must be created in Hero Lab, and if they players don't have a copy they are welcome to use mine.

its cut a lot of "rule creep" out of the characters as its all specified in front of me, I can look their characters up between sessions, or bring up stuff mid game.

Your the GM, request a copy of the character, and if one is not made available, find another player. that sounds harsh, but then I have a glut of players right now and have no trouble with 3-4 players waiting to join my games.

I always ask my GMs if they want a copy of my char sheet. It would never come to my mind to deny it.

But to force players use a buggy program for char gen seems not harsh but silly.
Sorry if that sounds overly rude but I lack a better suited word in this language which in't by native one.

if they can show a bug that is a disadvantage I will write a patch for it and fix it, if is an advantage, well they have it until the publisher fixes it.

I run four separate campaigns, and believe me when I say I could not run it with confidence without having a standard for the characters to be held up against.

Pathfinder x2, Shadowrun (and play in one) and Star Wars (wrote custom code to make it work)

Now no player is without a character sheet, no all players can level their characters easily, and there is a reference available for all their abilities, spells and items without having to open a book all the time.

Works for my group, and I've trained a few novice GM's to use it such that they can concentrate on the game more and less about managing combat.

So as far as this thread is concerned, he got a good compromise, and you can see the character sheet.

Once that's been done I believe he has solved his pressing problem :)

And I hope we have helped more than hindered with our own perceptions and perspectives.

As a GM I would laugh and say sure... you summon your Eidolon, btw did you remember to take a level in the class to get a Eidolon to summon?

No..

Well you spent the time drawing upon the mystic energies and pulling your Eidolon through the fabric of reality...

(to player please describe the Eidolon)

This creature appears out of the mystic portal and fades before materailising with a mocking laughter coming from the portal before it closes...

(to other players, please provide mocking laughter)

Now who's next?

If they cast the spell may as well give them something, and let the other players enjoy the experience. :)

Might even encourage them to take the class next level?

I have used the savage species rules and they work.

I've even adapted it to pathfinder, based on the bestiary.

The core design was based on a dragon magazine article, I think from issue 300 but can't remember exactly.

Every level the character gains something, but might not be hit dice. It is a very powerful character to play, but it sacrifices class for race.

Class can be taken at any time (this also slows down the age category progression) and can keep the dragon at the same size as the party.

There is another option.

Become the DM.

It's what I did more than 20 years ago because I had issues with how things were being run.

As for players, bring in one of your sons friends, would probably be easier to deal with than the problematic player.

Half your issues is with a weak DM not enforcing the constraints of the game. I have a player who likes to flaunt the constraints so I am constantly checking his character and making sure as he plays that its in character and not just on whim which does not fit with the background or alignment.

Pausing and asking why sometimes fixes things.

But you have an untapped player base with sons friends, so add a player or two from there...

I have enough trouble keeping character sex's straight with males playing females and females playing males..

They are a gamer, they say their female, good enough for me, I might be curious, but honestly I would rather just play games with them...

Though in some of my games he / she / it are thrown around because I can't keep the characters sex straight...

And these things occur in the game world as well, magic gender change can cause problems with some players.

But maybe if we use more instances in game, other gamers will be more tolerant?

Hey for my current games I have specified that the characters must be created in Hero Lab, and if they players don't have a copy they are welcome to use mine.

its cut a lot of "rule creep" out of the characters as its all specified in front of me, I can look their characters up between sessions, or bring up stuff mid game.

Your the GM, request a copy of the character, and if one is not made available, find another player. that sounds harsh, but then I have a glut of players right now and have no trouble with 3-4 players waiting to join my games.

So what I would recommend as a middle ground, say to him, what would he do if you pulled that stunt on him. How would he rule it.

If he is reasonable, simply tell him what you want him to do to keep that character in the game. If he is unreasonable tell him that he risks being booted from your game for cheating and I would state this in front of the other players as they might not know he has been cheating.

Put in those terms I've brought other players in line, especially other GM's as they don't want to be known for cheating.

You have tried to be reasonable, now simply let the group decide if he should be allowed to cheat while they are playing by the rules.

Either he will play within the rules, or he will leave... or you could let him continue to cheat.

I've thrown cheat in there a few times because in reality that is what he is doing, and on some level he knows this due to not being upfront about it.

There are also local distributors...

Unless I am getting bulk items, I buy locally and they save me based on the shipping to Australia, and they are fairly close to direct shipping from Paizo...

But if I am getting bulk items in one go then I order through the site.

It's not worth me being a subscriber due to shipping costs, its the only reason I'm not a subscriber.

If you want to know more about local shipping, PM me and I can give you the details.

This happens with some publishing. Occasionally there are misprints, I normally contact the distributor (I buy locally) and they send another copy once they get the returned book.

I doubt it is common, its happened to me at least twice over the last ten years, and a few friends picked up some misprints on the cheap at conventions.

I'm in the Canberra area, and the guys are quite active here, have a good presence at the mid year con Pheonomon, though not at the Australia day con CanCon which could use some more RPG's in it.

I've been running Rise of the Runelords for my group since September 2010 and its up to its 42nd session and still at the start of book 6.

Will be doing Curse of the Crimson Throne next, and starting a Rappan Athak dungeon crawl in the same week.

If your in the Canberra area, check out rpgmeetup.com and we might be able to find you a game.

Looking at this an not having run (or read) the kingmaker AP as yet I do have a piece of advice for what I do in my games.

Let the players have their fun. If they kill an important NPC, plow through a book in a night, bypass a huge chunk of story, let them.

Over time the lack of XP for their actions will balance out by the end of the storyline.

I'm running Rise of the Runelords, have them advancing faster than expected, then they walked through book 5 without touching much of it and have heading into book 6 at just the right level.

If they kill an important NPC in the community, and did not provide proof of the crimes of that person, they become outlaws, and start having to fight off the "good" characters of the world who want to bring them in for justice.

Just change the flavour of the adventure to suit their actions. Be it heroes of the land to villians who are feared and shunned.

I also let a little power creep in with items, I awarded double starting treasure at every level as total GP Item worth. This was done to speed up play and stop the need to write down everything they take from every monster in the game. As they no longer needed gear from monsters they stopped exploring as much and started avoiding encounters, and story. I had to revise that to items found while adventuring and only items they could have bought from the local cities, or have built themselves. Now they engage in the story more.

After talking to him further, I think we may try to make a themed party out of it. He will be a "destined guardian" orphaned as a child or some such, and I'll be the mentor he's grown up with all his life (a non-cleric wizard priest or some such) while the other player will be the plucky rogue sidekick.

At least then, the rest of the party can feel like an important part of the story, by feeling interconnected.

Still going to suggest the assimar though.

I like this compromise.

As your not the GM and your going to feel a little under powered or fragile in comparison, especially if the GM ups the power level.

So if you and the other players choose the theme their characters around the one you have an issue with you might enjoy the experience more with a better story.

A TPK does give you an opportunity to tie the characters back together with a linked background, where as new characters that come in to replace a single loss can be very hard for some players to integrate into their characterisation.

I'd also suggest the Assimar as an alternative if I was in the game (or GM).

As long as it is up front before a game I'd have no issues with it, as long as well all agree to it.

As I like to play wizards and other squishy characters, I like the idea of splitting the costs and it is an encounter expense.

Maybe you should state the agreement before starting the session. This can go from shared loot to shared expenses. Otherwise it starts to become everyone for themselves...

As a spellcaster I would frown upon expendable resources if they all came out of my characters pocket.

I would be less likely to play with those players again no matter how fun they were at the start, they did not end that way being quite selfish.

From your post they came close to ruining your enjoyment of the game and if they pulled that in one of the campaigns I run, they would be lucky to find themselves in another game.

As a GM I encourage players to discuss (before play) what they expect reward division to be, including most of the basics, death, personal treasure (found by or given to a single character), expendables, prestige and accountability.

If you can't agree and abide by that agreement then why would you adventure together, trust each other, or even help each other. With different factions it would be quite easy to just kill other characters, steal their stuff, or cripple them in some way.

I'd see that act the same as stealing from the character, not really following the duty of cooperation that is expected because they are not respecting the other characters claim's and risk reporting to the pathfinder society for expulsion due to greed.

I'd leave it up to the player to decide, but if it was their choice to make a case, and if I was the one receiving it there is a good chance I would side with them and state the characters are probably more evil than neutral and should be expunged anyway.

That's just my rant on players being greedy and not cooperating in the enjoyment of the group.

As a game I expect fair play, if there is not, I'd note down the others and choose not to play with them again.

thedarkelf007 wrote:

I'd only say you need to follow the module if your running a con or pathfinder society adventure.

Well, since this discussion is on the PFS section of the boards, that's really the only relevant answer here, I suppose. :-)

Nextime - check where I'm replying...

From this perspective, I'd say most of the flavour and fluff can be changed to suit the audience, but the storyline, core plot and encounters should remain the same :)

Modules are there for inspiration.

I'd only say you need to follow the module if your running a con or pathfinder society adventure.

Other than that, everything is up for change.

As a GM/DM it is up to you to balance the storyline, encounters and treasure to suit the game and characters in the game.

It should be challenging, not deadly, fun and concentrate on what the group your playing with is interested in.

No point with lots of roleplaying if your group only wants to kill things, and no point with tweaking encounters too much if your group is able to find ways around almost all of the combat.

Most people have a mix of the two and thats where the tweaking comes in, making the story fit with the planned modules and free play (unplanned) of an ongoing story can be fun.

Adult content also comes up in some games, and if players are unhappy with it, it is modified or toned down to their comfort level while implying enough to let the imagination run. Actually I prefer implying without stating....

I have my gods interact at times, mainly with worthy followers in the sense of omens and dreams, sometimes during formal gatherings a character might receive a blessing of the gods everyone else sees.

Now as not all the gods are good, this can lead to interesting situations where the characters are wondering why they just received a blessing from a god...

and an evil god at that...

:)

Besides that gods can be interacted with in temples and shrines, with magic or by calling on them. This is not always to the advantage of the characters again, and I only use it to add to the storyline, not to take away from the story or smack down a character for some reason.