I've just finished reading it and am super-hyped to run a game. Couple of interesting points:
* high power levels - putting the power in the PC's hands will make this an interesting experience. As if, in D&D, the king spent his treasury on going out and completing quests for himself, only hiring adventurers for minor things.
* epic scope - this really is the 40K universe at its most intense and grand, at the same time. Like, Dune levels of big.
* maturity - without moral restrictions and with large amounts of political and financial power, plus the sandbox style, this will work much better with more mature players, for sure.
* spaceships - the rules for space battles toe the line between simulation and cinematic, so hopefully they'll please both sides.
Glad to see I wasn't alone with this one. It removed an aspect of culture (and thus customization) from the races. And at this point, IMHO, it became a hold over from 3rd edition, rather than a useful mechanic.
You're pretty much on your own, as the Dark Plea only features in a few Malhavoc titles (IIRC). The 3.5 version of Hyperconscious has a little more than the 3.0, but that's it.
The best thing to do would be to find some DM's home-brew stuff on online, I'm sure there is a Malhavoc community somewhere, just not anything I've tried to search out myself.
Happily, all of the new base classes will be released for an open public playtest, so you'll have plenty of opportunity to suggest changes or comment on what does and doesn't work for you once the playtest versions of the classes have been posted! :)
Thank you Eric. This piece of news (sorry if I missed it before) has cheered me up with regard to the APG. I have to ask then, is this going to be a standard thing for all big releases of rules that Paizo will be putting out?
It seems like you havn't read all the information out there about the various classes, even the information that's been out there for months.
For example, the Summoner (name tentative) has nothing to do with the summon monster spells. An example Summoner is Dr. Frankenstein. The class is all about your ONE "summoned" creature and enhancing it through class features. (SNIP)
That's just one example of where you've seemingly missed a lot of the point of the various classes.
Oh no, I get that the new summoner is all about one big summons:
Me wrote:
Plus with the focus on a beefier familiar, isn't the witch going to start stepping on the toes of the new summoner class and their touted "one big familiar" angle.
I was just stating that, in this case, maybe an alternative option might be better than a whole new class and that summoning is not an unfilled niche. E.g. Maybe trading the summon spell at each level for something more permanent would be more desirable to me as a customer and a gamer. But as that is not going to happen, I made this post.
I've read all I can about the new classes. I want to see how they're going to turn out. I Just wanted to share some of my thoughts as a potential customer, and the existing APG thread starts off with a "no discussions about the new classes" comment. Hence the new thread.
Reposted from my blog in the hopes that I'll get what I want!
Quite Long:
I was waiting to make this post until *all* the new classes were revealed for the Pathfinder Advanced Player's Guide. My overwhelming response to all of classes is "This is better suited as a variant." Time to take a quick look!
Alchemist - This is the most interesting and valid concept of the new classes Paizo are adding. Although, as it exists now, the skill of alchemy is open to all classes, so again, I think to myself, if you feel that there is not enough alchemy in games, then come up with some new funky uses for the skill - new alchemical items that anyone can make, possibly based on low level spell effects? Or again, work on a variant of the wizard class who brews potions instead of studying books and scrolls. In 2nd Edition, every wizard was also an alchemist by default. I'm interested to see how this is going to be pulled off, but it is going to have to be something special to convince me that more uses for the skill wouldn't have been better.
Cavalier - Ah! We all knew this relic of D&D was going to get resurrected! And, coincidentally, I just picked up the Green Ronin Cavalier class book for $2.00 in the Paizo sale. This is another idea that I love, the cavalier is a real classic archetype. However, they are already represented by the paladin in many ways, and it is perfectly possible to play a cavalier using a number of different options from the 3rd edition, any version you like, rule set. So why does this need to be a new class? I'm going to forgive this Paizo this one, like any eccentric writer, there are certain things they love and this is one of them. But I really don't feel the need for a whole new class.
Oracle - Spontaneous divine caster! Ooh! While there is a mechanical opening for such a class, and I welcome that opening to be filled, I really think that a variant sorcerer or a variant cleric would be the best way to present this idea. Also, there doesn't seem to be any logical connection between the divine and these casters - why do they get divine powers? I'm open to the idea, but I'm not sold on what I see. It looks messy in the preview, and not at all like what you would associate with the word "oracle".
Summoner - The summoning spells are awesome fun, but does this really need to be a new class? A wizard or a sorcerer (or a druid, or a cleric) can easily call themselves a summoner and there are a lot of options open to these characters regarding summoning already. Again I find myself wondering why this needs to be a whole new class. Some new, optional extra rules, like more feats to pick extra powers for your summoned creatures, for example, would be much more welcome than a whole new class. And much easier to integrate, too. My wife plays a summoner, a sorcerer who specializes in summoning spells. Some new and interesting spells would be 100x more welcome to existing players, I'm sure, than a whole new class. E.g. We've had a lot of fun with some 3rd party spells, including one that lets you summon siege weapons. A couple of intelligence boosting spells later and the summoned badgers are helping load them - it's great fun! Or perhaps something like Astral Construct for magic users?
Inquisitor - The description sounds like a ranger variant. In every sense of the word. This really flies in the face of what we were first told by Paizo - everyone of these classes was supposed to fill a niche that was wide open in terms of the core classes. Guy who hunts things down? Check one - Paladin, check two - ranger, check three - rogue, check four - assassin PrC. That is without going into the broadness of the concept, i.e. there is no reason why a wizard can't also be a hunter of X. Plus it is another slap in the face of the XPH fans who now have to rename the Inquisitor feat.... I'm taking that one very personally! ;p
Witch - I loved the witch kit, back in AD&D - awesome! Although this sounds less like that idea, which is a shame as, with no warlock in Pathfinder, the 'making pacts' angle is something that is wide open! Ah well. Plus with the focus on a beefier familiar, isn't the witch going to start stepping on the toes of the new summoner class and their touted "one big familiar" angle. And again, I think that a witch/warlock is already in the rules, just needs some additional options to bring them fully into the game, e.g. lower level versions of spells like planar ally.
In summary? I'm not impressed. These ideas do not really warrant separate classes, as promised, but would be better represented by class variants.
But I don't want to be totally negative. My doctors say that that is really bad for me right now, so I'm going to try to type a little more, giving some hints as to the things that might win me back, with regard to these archetypes standing on their own as classes.
Alchemist - I suppose the way to win me back with this one is to make it dynamic. I'm thinking that the more like McGuyver the class is, the less wizardly and more unique the class will come out as. I like the idea of brewing up some potions each day, but also have some tubes on stand-by, like open spell slots on the wizard, that just need a little of that dungeon-moss from over there.... That would be fun.
Cavalier - The more cultural neutral this class is, the more I'm going to be into it. Defined by having a code of honor of some kind, and fighting mounted somehow, are the ingredients. From there I want a gladiatorial charioteer (obey the rules of the games, please the crowd as a form of code) to be just as possible as a noble-knight. That would make for a good class. Plus any mount-related abilities would also be welcome, like being able to get more out of your horse (granting them temporary HP would be nice).
Oracle - To win me back here, all it needs is decent flavor. There is a gap in rules that this class will be filling, but I need to see that backed up with some solid "real world" reasons for the class to exist. None of the woolly divine-mind/ardent crap!
Summoner - I really don't know how to sell me on this concept as I don't see a vacancy here. Solid mechanics would be a good starting point. Some sort of exploration of the relationship between the summoner and the summoned would also be welcome - can the summoner exchange being summoned themselves for even more power? That'd be cool. I guess I'd also be on board with summoning things that aid the summoner indirectly - like summoning a spirit into their sword briefly, "self buffs", I think is the term.
Inquisitor - When is a ranger not a ranger? I would like to see something decidedly un-ranger like here, to be sold on it. A 6-level divine spell progression and lots of knowledge skills would be a good start. Divine bard? I guess I'd also like to see some sort of "wards" mechanic, I thinking more Van-Helsing from the novel as opposed to the terrible modern action movie. Yeah, the more I think about that, the more okay with the idea I'd be. Setting up wards that his/her foes cannot cross, or do so at their peril, that'd be fun. Also another niche of the rules not currently explored too deeply. And that would be a real nasty turn when the dark-elf inquisitor turns up hunting the party, all prepared!
Witch - Link this one to the warlock and the idea of "powers at a price" and I'm sold. Please refer back to the AD&D witch kit for reference. Maybe the familiar is sent by those powers to watch on the witch?
So, you're saying the spell is only useful from 5th level (when the wizard gets it) until 8th (when the fighter gets Improved Critical)? That's a fairly narrow range of usefulness.
Not at all. I was just trying to show another way in which the spell is good. Like I posted above, twice, I like this spell and was just trying to defend it.
I'd like to expand on my above post, as I never thought I'd see one of my preferred spells get such a pasting. I know this thread is more mechanics based, but here is one of the things I like, in a more woolly, less optimized world.
Keen Edge comes into play before critical feats and the kinda cash you need to make or buy a super-sword. As a wizard then, I can offer my friends something they don't already have. I can turn to a fighting class character and, in character, say something like
"You recall that much lauded mastery of the blade you so eagerly chase? Well I'm afraid that these Orcs have little patience to wait for your training to manifest itself. Fortunately, I have a spell for just such an occasion."
Being as the a Magic Weapon spell likely won't have any beneficial effect if they have already invested in a +X sword, it is nice to have another option to offer my party members. I know that the enhancing spells such as Bull's Strength are statistically more beneficial, but, as in the case of the +X sword, the fighting character is likely to have already quaffed a potion or similar. Also, spells like Fireball aren't always an option, potentially hurting team-mates.
Keen Edge is just another option for the wizard to use to help out. And really, as a fighting character, if the wizard offers you a beneficial spell, you're not likely to know what it does, or even care, it is just nice to know that once again, the magic user is helping out.
You have to wonder, then, what would be the point? ;p
Seriously, though, the RPG experience would have to evoke the feeling of playing MtG otherwise it wouldn't be MtG: The RPG. What that feeling is, that "soul" of the game will change on who you ask.
To me, that soul means: Dominaria and Summoning Creatures. It wouldn't be MtG:The RPG, to me, if I was the creature being summoned, or if it took place on Ravnica, for example. Artifacts are easily handled by the existing D&D magic items and the way they work, but other things, such as mana and "tap your land" are things I can see, and would be happy with, being handled in different ways.
Unless you are trying to blur the boundaries, though, I guess all versions of the RPG would want to avoid the use of actual MtG cards.
Back when I still lost money to MtG, this was a hot topic for a while, both online and IRL with my gaming group. I even did some work dividing the existing D&D spells and monsters into different colors.
There was this book, which tried to do something every similar without the license. It comes across as kinda "Birthright", but (personally) it's not very good.
I think the biggest hurdle to making this work is the mechanics. It has to look like the card game in flavor, but play like both D&D and MtG. Not an easy task. Plus, much like the discussions of "what is the soul of D&D", there are a lot of opinions as to what the "soul" of MtG is.
Final note, the old PC and Playstation videogames would be a good resource for anyone attempting this as a project.
I just wanted to make a quick post to say I like the spell Keen Edge.
It's a lot of fun to cast, either for another party member or on my own weapon of choice. My wizard is always going to add it to his spell books. My sorcerer probably won't take it as a spell known unless he's going to be fighting upfront himself, given too few choices, but I'll certainly buy a Wand of Keen Edge for him.
I'm okay with it being a 3rd level spell, it wouldn't hurt the game if it was pulled down to 2nd, but I think that has more to do with the selection of 2nd level arcane spells than anything else.
Long time ago Paizo, Nicolas Logue and Tim Hitchcock
were hitchhikin' down a long and lonesome road.
All of a sudden,
there shined a shiny type IV demon...
in the middle...
of the road.
And he said:
"Write the best adventure in the world,
or I'll eat your souls!"
Well they looked at each other,
and they each said...
"Okay."
And they wrote the first thing that came to their heads,
Just so happened to be,
The Best Adventure in the World,
it was The best Adventure in the World.
(SNIP)
This is not The Greatest Adventure in the World, No
This is just Carnival of Tears.
Couldn't remember The Greatest Adventure in the World, No.
No!
This is just Carnival of Tears, oh,
To The Greatest Adventure in the World,
All right!
It was The Greatest Adventure in the World,
All right!
And it was the best mother cluckin' module,
The Greatest Adventure in the world!
So, yeah. As Paizo can't recall the greatest adventure in the world, at this time, you can still get a lot of fun out of their tribute; Carnival of Tears. Very different from your standard dungeon affair and showcases Paizo production values.
I'd also put in a quick mention, although outside your remit, for Shackled City.
tfad, can you turn right around and expand on this idea in the Magic Terms thread? Thanks!
tfad/me wrote:
using a closer parallel with some of the real world post-middle-ages Catholic stuff, invoking the name of the spell-inventor would be a verbal component.
Something else for the character to think about, in-game, is paying for statues of his god to be installed in other temples of the faith, engraved with the spell. You could do the same thing with prayer books if the campaign has printing presses. This way more priests will be familiar with the incantation and the history of the author. Just make sure that "pride" is not listed as a sin according to church doctrine.
By invitation! Although, admittedly, this is less about the terms used.
Expanding on what was quoted above, and using my own games as an example, I gotta say, I manage to avoid this issue, almost entirely, by naming every single magic item, often using the name of the creator in the name of the item. This is a *lot* of work, but it is ultimately worth the effort. I also make sure to include some degree of background with each item, at the very least, what class the creator belonged to (or even classes - you'd be amazed at how much cooler an item seems to players when they learn that it was made by a Wizard/Monk; "Woah! That dude must have rocked!). It's also good for roleplaying too. Holy rusting grasp gauntlets appear very different when you think about the characters that made them - what does it say about their druid creator? He must have been pretty agressively anti-metal. What about if they were made by a paladin? He was likely always skirting the "rules of engagement" and likely flew very close to his code of honor!
You can see - this stuff pretty much writes itself at times.
It's important to leave mechanical questions out of the creation process, though. With help from NPCs and other means, such as Wish spells, UMD skill checks, etc. characters of any class are capable of making almost any item. Also, remember that if you're rolling up 40-something items as the players are going shopping, #1 they're not going to buy everything so don't get too attached to any particular item, and #2 it's okay to have a couple of "I don't know" items - I'm sure that the merchants get the occasional trade in - it's enough to say to the players/characters, "I dunno - bought it off of some adventurers last month." If the players are really into it then they can always cast legend lore or similar later, giving you time to fill in the details.
Another thing I find useful in bringing the items to life, is to alter the prices. Even just a 10% variation creates an interesting situation for you. Roll randomly - see what you get. I make my players roll appraise skill checks to see if they know what an item is worth and if they're getting a bargain/being overcharged.
E.g. You roll an evil-outsider bane weapon, with a 15% increase in price. The merchant can say something like; "Well just last week a group of angels passed through here, looking for some heavy magicks.
The tall one said something about rescuing a prisoner. Then just yesterday it happened again - can't blame me for trying to make a living!"
E.g. You roll a folding boat, reduced by 10%; "It was a trade in - anything I make on it is profit so I'm trying to do you a nice deal."
E.g. You roll a ring of protection, reduced by 15%, created by a cleric; "Turns out the poor sod who made it lost his faith in Pelor. Kinda puts folks off of buying it, so it's been in stock for a while now - I'm just trying to shift it. I'll knock it down to 20% if you buy anything else in-store today!"
Etc.
Other Examples from my laptop, without mechanics:
Badvok’s Blazing Basher - The legendary dwarf adventurer Badvok, used this magical warhammer throughout the Coiled Serpent campaign. The piece was thought to have been lost, only to turn up on a market stall in the Abyss many generations later.
Ithutt’s Bow - Ithutt still survives to this day, running a small pub in the gate-town of Ribcage. His bow, like most of his artefacts from his adventuring days, was sold off in an effort to finance the goblin’s tavern; Ithutt’s Hut.
Enchanted Arrow/Icy Arrow – The City has an abundance of magical arrows, often sold to adventurers who pass through. They all came from the famous elf Rathenai, who spent several months recovering from his injuries here. He was still under the Feathered Pharaoh’s curse at the time, compelling him to craft a fine arrow each hour lest his heart stop. He gifted all the arrows he had made during his stay to the city, when he left
Rythus’ Boomerang - Salamanders respect the boomerang – it was the weapon of our ancestors, the weapon that brought us into the modern age. Rythus knew this and obeyed the ancient customs, enchanting his boomerang before his spear. He met with success as a result, becoming known across the planes for his skill and bravery.
Ayelashou’s Cape of Deflection - None of the scholars I’ve talked to have ever heard of “Ayelshou”, but his or her name is still stitched to the inside of the cape’s collar. The protection it offers, however, is beyond questioning at such a bargain price!
Csaal’s Mail - Csaal wore this suit of chain mail, forged by her Dwarven husband, throughout most of her adventuring career. She retired after making a big enough score to buy a kingdom, supposedly stolen from an infernal green dragon. She sold off most of her adventuring gear at the request of her husband, as he was fearful that its presence would serve as a constant reminder of her adventuring days; either making her sad, or causing her come out of retirement.
Marionette Armour – This suit of armour was created a devil-smith who was fond of blasphemy. Having no fear of a god who he thought of as powerless, he invited Landanstruh, the god of puppetry, to do his worst. From that day, all weapons and armour he created were cursed, causing those who used his items to move like a puppet! However, in the case of this piece, there was an unexpected benefit – those who don this suit of armour find their feet barely touch the floor as they jerk along, making their steps almost silent.
Zontimax’s War Helm – Zontimax ceased progressing along the path of the wizard, just as he reached the peak of his power. A closely fought battle in a null-magic zone inspired Zontimax to begin training as a warrior. His final, formal act as a Wizard of the Red Robes, was the creation of this helm. It offers fantastic protection, doubly so if your attacker aims for your head!
Bag of Holding I – The workhorse of an adventurer’s magical gear, most of these items do not have a recorded history. However, the purple colour and light silky material of this piece, suggest it was made by Dark Elves.
Celestial Bonsai Tree – This bonsai tree was grown from cuttings taken from the gardens of Mount Celestia. The tiny berries that grow upon it have a healing effect and, when the tree is properly tended to, grow back extremely rapidly.
Elven Circlet - The problem we had identifying this circlet comes from the fact that Elven is not spoken amongst the (SELLER'S SPECIES). Once it was put on, however, we could not see the inscription to read it! The problem was finally solved with a set of mirrors. It turns out this piece belonged to a half-Elven prince called Annasure. As his dominion was over human lands, he ensured he would not forget the other half of his heritage by having it enchanted with the Elven language.
Garldex’s Glove of Storing – Garldex was an amazing and complex character, famous across the planes as both a thief and a holy man. This simple leather glove saved his life on numerous occasions, by virtue of his obsession with preparation.
Gauntlets of the Ogress Mage - These gauntlets were fashioned from star-metal by a powerful Ogress Mage. They have had numerous owners over the generations since, but they magically resist all attempts at re-branding or re-naming. The inscription inside each gauntlet reads “These gauntlets will survive me. Use them in battle. Use them in magic. But do not use them in cowardice! So says Teretight, Ogress Mage”.
Goni’s Gloves of Grabbing – Goni was a Lich who lost his life as an evil sorcerer to an arrow. In his undead state, he crafted these gloves so as to prevent a similar death again. Although one free hand is needed to use these magical gloves, this was not a problem for Goni, who always kept a hand free to cast his spells.
Leprechaun’s Pot - This magical pot used to belong to a Leprechaun, who would have used the treasure it contained to trick mortals. Although the treasure is long-gone, placing more treasure inside the pot makes it disappear, presumably vanishing to the Fae Realms and to the pot’s previous owner. As the treasure vanishes, it grants a little of the Leprechaun’s magic to whoever placed their gold inside.
Lung Mei’s Kama Beads - Lung Mei still lives today, working hard in his modest monastery-cum-workshop on the plane of Mechanus. Although his apprentices create all types of wondrous items, it is Lung Mei himself that produces the best pieces. These prayer beads, inscribed with tenets of order and modesty, are a powerful boon to any spell caster.
Milkmaid’s Revenge – (apron (belt) of Command) Sarah the Swift remembered her difficult early years, working as a milkmaid, before she was adopted by a group of adventurers and became a sorceress. When passing through a small village and seeing a young milkmaid being hassled in a way she was familiar with, Sarah could not help but intervene. It is said she created this magical apron in a single night, gifting it to the milkmaid the following morning. It is believed that the apron has worked its way across the planes, after it was stolen during an Orcish raid on that small village.
Milluet’s Ring of Counter Spelling – This magical ring of counter spelling is largely unremarkable, save for the fact that it is inscribed “to my lover”, for the adventuring monk Milluet. This is an interesting note in the history of the item as Milluet famously took a vow of chastity, to aid in warding off of succubi. The truth may now never be known, but the power of this item is beyond question! BONUS! “Name your arcane spell and I’ll have cast on the ring for free!”
Monkey Fur Bracers - Both the craftsmanship and origin of these bracers are amazing. Created from his own fur, the epic Celestial Ape adventurer Simous crafted these pieces before he gained the Keeper of the Orb’s powers. As such, he had yet to acquire the ability to regenerate; the scars of the bracer’s creation staying with him for the rest of his life.
Siren’s Slippers - These beautiful gold and green slippers lend their wearer the enchanting voice of the Siren who stitched them. Their story before Abaddamus, the famous possessed archer, discovered them in an old well, remains unknown.
Top hat of Toasting – This magical top hat was gifted to Lady Owlskull - by Baron Samedi himself! She later traded the top hat for a lost soul she was guiding as a part of her quest. It has since been owned by over a dozen adventurers, each one of them claiming that the hat told them when it wished to leave them and pass on to a new owner. It’s going cheap as Salamanders have little use for fire-based sorcery!
A Mysterious Psionatrix of Dromite Design - This Psionatrix was crafted by an unknown Dromite over 500’000 years ago, making it one of the oldest pieces currently on sale.
All that Remains of Summer’s End - These stylish white boots are all that remains of the White-Wyrm Summer’s End.
An Eye for a Bargain - This magic rapier was originally twinned with the magic dagger; ‘An Eye for the Ladies’. Both relics of Callahir Singollo, the Elvish bard, were thought lost, until this piece turned up for sale in one of the markets of Sigil.
Armour of the Ghost-faced Killer - The armour of Yashishino, the legendary Ghost-faced Killer, imparts some of the warrior’s skill at arms on the wearer, as well it’s protection.
Aughest’s Staff of the Holy Battlemage - Aughest worked as a troubleshooter of sorts for Celestia about 400 years ago.
Backerwick’s Bubbler - This Gnomish cauldron cooks up useful alchemy out of any liquid; water, wine, urine....
Briny Ball - This rare purple pearl was enchanted by a druid-diviner on some drowned material world.
Crikadel - This rare piece does have the effect of causing you to manifest scales when wearing it, but the protection it offers is second to none.
Doomed Lover’s Rings - These were hastily sold by a broken hearted adventurer. Their fine craftsmanship certainly not to blame for her misfortune.
Ei jholi shys cylol, Ei shaedyl shys cylol - This Elven halberd’s name translates as “A line worth holding, a weapon worth holding”. Although the tale of this weapon has been lost, the construction includes the use of various cockatrice-derived materials.
Encyclopaedia Daemonica, Complete set Encyclopaedia Daemonica 14 vol. - It is very rare to find a complete set of these ancient books.
Esthon’s Bracers - Used by the Centaur villain Esthon during the Riding Wars.
Frostflash - Without a doubt, one of the finest bows ever made by a non-Elf. This powerful relic has seen use on every side of the Blood Wars. Originally crafted as a commissioned piece from a Spellweaver by a long-forgotten hero, this longbow is almost 20’000 years old.
Haun’s Fork - This trident is a relic of the lost faith of Uryna. Members of this strange cult believed that truth was the ultimate weapon.
Hesper’s Cursed Armour - Tales of man-beasts and treachery accompany the demise of each previous owner of this cursed breastplate.
Holy Bread - The Paladin Billaux Faith-spreader of Hera, crafted this staff of her most common spells. Spells she called her ‘bread’.
Howling’s End - A very rare piece, this lance was crafted by a Slaad with the intention to slay ghosts.
Hungry for Orc - This scimitar was created by a sickly Elf who lived in constant fear of dropping from exhaustion in battle, and thus being outshone by his younger, doted on brother. Disease claimed him in the end.
Issaan’s Staff Magic Staff - This powerful staff is perfect for anyone following in Issaan Magebane’s footsteps.
Jontia’s Protection - Jontia swore this cloak offered her protection beyond that which she paid to have woven into it.
Joqua’s Gauntlet - Joqua created this gauntlet as a part of his scheme to get even with his sister.
Kick-Bite - This collar was crafted for an Elven watchdog belonging to a family by the name of Willow-Wise.
Mageslayer - This simply titled sword was created by a one-eyed Dwarf for a no-eyed knight who sought revenge against a three-eyed wizard.
Nashendagaro’s Bell - This huge bell was created by a group of wandering adventurers to protect a humble church that found itself under siege from a near-by magic school.
The following two pieces were actually named and given a story that fit a part of our ongoing campaign -
the PCs had previously decided not to investigate the desecrated barrows described. This is another good tool
you can use when giving some sense of realism to items and your game-world.
Older Brother’s Defense - One of two magical shields, found in a desecrated barrow on the Prison Plane.
Younger Brother’s Defense - One of two magical shields, found in a desecrated barrow on the Prison Plane.
P’endper’s Flaming Sheath - This psychoactive skin was created by a mysterious race of aquatic troglodytes for the hero P’endper, during his quest to foil an Aboleth scheme.
Pesarus’ Chainshirt - This chainshirt was crafted to protect the warrior-king Pesarus.
Plate of the Petitioned Praetorian - The golem this suit of armour can be used to form, is silent about their origins.
Pole of Eyes - Whilst the creator remains a mystery, the workmanship and function a beyond question – made with real Beholder eyes!
Pom of the Splintershields - This Dwarven pom drum is one of the few surviving relics of the Splintershield clan.
Pride’s Face - This full length dress mirror once belonged to an Elven princess, but has since been owned by more than a dozen mages.
Rallabams Ring of Rambunctious Rolling - Rallabam was a famous travelling entertainer over 1000 years ago, who spent a fortune to ensure he was the best.
Rational Ring - This magic ring is set with four jewels, each finely cut from a single large gem by master Gnomish gem-cutters.
Roll’s Aegis - This suit of armour belonged to the legendary thief-archer Roll. It saved him on numerous occasions over the course of his adventures.
Scale the Hail - This whip of climbing includes Storm Giant hair in it’s components and was once a royal heirloom. It’s over 8’000 years old.
Sovereign Glue and Universal Solvent - The secrets of it’s alchemical creation known only to a few, you’re lucky enough to find some on sale today!
Surdin Dragoncoin’s non- Smoking Jacket - Dragoncoin’s wife made this cloak for him to wear on his frequent trips to sell alchemist’s fire to the Dwarves.
Tailecus’ Retarius - This amazing retarius was gifted to the legendary gladiator Tailecus by his Emperor, the finest his craftspeople could create!
The Blown Bender - This Horn of Reverse Gravity was created by a succubus in an effort to liven up orgies.
The Cuffed Carousal - These Dimensional Shackles were created by a succubus in an effort to liven up orgies.
Tiara of Bast - This elegant piece was lovingly crafted by the virgin priestess Zai-Ghee of Bast.
Uri’s Urgency - Crafted by the mad-Orc Uri-Uri, this armour serves as a fine example of what an Orc is capable of, when they turn their mind to it.
Uskine’s Easel - Little is known about the beautiful artist Uskine. She vanished mysteriously, leaving only 3 portraits of herself, each from a different angle.
Voltaire’s Slippers - The mage Voltaire has long since been forgotten by everyone, except the small village where he was born. They still hold a fete every year in his honor.
What the Nymph Saw - Made famous by the adventuring Nymph Oawe, these goggles were originally intended to help the Dwarves in their battles against their Duergar cousins.
Withered Hand of Chezeraat - This is the genuine mummified hand of the half-Dragon Chezeraat the Despoiler.
RE: Potions, Wands and scrolls, I don't use this method. They're consumables, and I'd rather spend time building up the items that make the world, rather than these nibliks. That said, we generally don't refer to cure potions as anything other than cure potions - the effect in noted on character sheets and explained OOC when the players are buying/making them.
Dave Young 992 wrote:
"A spell of the 8th order? How could we fight that?" Even then, a caster might need to roll a linguistics check, along with a spellcraft or religion check, to really know what such an inocuous sentence really means.
Fantastic idea! I mean to say, that slang and common parlance changes throughout the world and, as different real-world universities use different academic terms, there is no reason to say our fantasy ones wouldn't. It's also a great way to reward a player's skill choices and bring a little more depth to the game. That said, I feel for the sorcerer who never went to school! ;p
Andoran carborundum wrote:
In the awesome Tales of Wyre on enWorld (Sepulchrave = genius) they're called the 9 valences.
calling the spell "Saint X's Retribution" or something like that.
Spot on.
Or, using a closer parallel with some of the real world post-middle-ages Catholic stuff, invoking the name of the spell-inventor would be a verbal component.
Something else for the character to think about, in-game, is paying for statues of his god to be installed in other temples of the faith, engraved with the spell. You could do the same thing with prayer books if the campaign has printing presses. This way more priests will be familiar with the incantation and the history of the author. Just make sure that "pride" is not listed as a sin according to church doctrine.
I've not actually run this particular encounter, although I'm chomping at the bit to do so. But I can speak from my experiences running other high-level battles in 2nd and 3rd edition. I guess I have two things to say.
#1 You've answered your own question, here:
nib wrote:
if I can't somehow slow their team tactics down.
if your group are working like a team, then well done to them - they should be rewarded for doing so. But also, they shouldn't fall back on the same routines and get complacent. You know what they usually do, and if it doesn't smack too much of meta-gaming, then disrupt their regular formation and tactics. It'll be a wake up call and make the whole thing more of a challenge.
#2 Know what the bad guys can do. Simple preparation is the key, here. Read and reread Adi's stat block. Know both his forms inside and out.
Final thought - if you're worried about them finding it too easy, then don't be afraid to beef up the final encounter. More HP for the bad guy is the easiest way, having them summon help and giving them extra dispels are the other common "easy boosts" to apply to the BBEGs.
Although Hawk does make a comment about how knowing is half the battle. I was the only one in the whole theater that laughed.
Me too!
Also, my first thought, seeing the long shot of the aircraft carrier at the end was "Yes! Now Shipwreck *has* to be in the sequel!" Y'know, the more I think about the movie, the more I like it.
Peace,
tfad
Edit: And I wonder if Hawk will get a crazy hat and a jet-pack, like in the NES game?
Interesting word choice. Spoken like a true enlisted man. :-)
LMAO - Actually, I just grew up on military bases, in a military family. I've worked hard to not follow in those footsteps. Pa always used that one on Gramps. I guess I should've gone with italics in the original post....
He's from the later stuff, like those crappy robo-suits, but he is a Joe, one of Hawk's best mates.
I thought it was Flint in the movie, too. And I think there has been some confusion amongst fans as the movie character was listed as "Sgt.", when the character is/was only a "Lt.", originally.
Of course, I don't really care - I got a great, fun, movie that took me back. There were a couple of things I would've done differently; namely
#1 Snake Eyes with *no* Timber? He better be in the sequel!
#2 The character of the Baroness was different, even though her back story was very similar. For those not in the know; Comics/Cartoon Baroness equals sexy fem-fatale, black-widow style chick. Movie Baroness equals post-matrix action babe.
Original Baroness FTW!
But, really, I have no complaints. Certainly, IMHO, a lot truer to the original stuff than the new Transformers movies. I am a happy Joe!
take Still Spell (an often underestimated Metamagic Feat)
I was waiting for someone with a decent Wisdom score to post that! ;p Still Spell is always on my personal list of feats my arcane caster needs to consider.
Feat or EldKt class feature to let you channel touch spells through a weapon
This was my first thought, too. We've had this one in our games, in one form or another, as a house rule for years. It's almost pre-requisite for any magic-user who is using a weapon all the time. Since that is what an EK does, well....
Maybe it's a feat we'll see in the final book? Not long to go to find out!
I don't agree here, but Changling had a very bight aspect to it, and it is not hard to say it didn't fit.
I think that this is one of the biggest misconceptions that fans of CtD try hard to dispel. So I'll do my bit before bowing out! ;p
Beckett wrote:
about dread and sort of an in-your-face the world is twisted and sucks
The world is twisted and sucks - the world is a frightening place to Changelings. The everyday and mundane are toxic to them - for example, going through a drive through, with all the disenfranchisement that entails, could potentially kill a Changeling. Seeing a child soldier, almost certainly so! It's twisted too, some people, serial killers, rapists, haunted soldiers, etc. have an horrific effect on the world of the Dreaming. While a Hunter may face the killer him/herself, a Changeling has to actually face the twisted parts of them that led them down that dark path. There can be some damn scary minds out there! There is definitely some feelings of dread in CtD - just ask your troupe to go within a half-mile of anything from a bullied child to a blood-stained sanitarium and there *will* be dread.
Beckett wrote:
Changling was more about "things are bad, but we are the light".
Not so. Although it is possible to play it that way, the default is more "things are bad and they are only going to get worse". Have your troupe try to continually inspire the artist that provides them with glamour. Slowly that well is going to dry up and it won't be long before his studio becomes a twisted hall of tried and tested post-modernism, sucking the life out of the dreaming....
Beckett wrote:
It was one of the few games that a player didn't risk losing control of their character each game,
There is a constant battle that Changelings have to fight between their summer and winter natures, as well as the steady stream of glamour - every bit as necessary as blood for vampires, only much harder to collect. A good roleplayer will have an infinite source of stuff to work with from that. While there are *fewer* instances requiring you to actually roll or lose control, that is a good thing. Otherwise, there'd not be the hoo-har there is in D&D over "save-or-suck". And a roleplayer in CtD has more than enough material to work with if they want to lose control.
Watching one of our Redcaps lose control of his hunger while trying to drive and talk on the phone was a lot of fun, leading the troupe to some scary moments!
Beckett wrote:
It was also not about a group of creatures all out to screw each other over at the slightest chance, but rather about everyone working together to save the world(s).
Changeling politics is every bit as brutal as the politics of VtM. The advancement is more limited, as you're either a noble or your not, plus killing another Changeling (i.e. your political rival) will hurt you and the rest of the Dreaming, so the schemes can get *very* nasty. Plus there are a lot of social rules you can play with too, similar to the Traditions in VtM.
Beckett wrote:
To my knowledge, it was also the only series that had color pages.
Yes. And they're pretty to look at! ;p Seriously, though, it is to help convey the world to the reader - it's a bright and vibrant world in the Dreaming. Shame it is all going down....
I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, but CtD players often need to fight against the preconceptions that others have about their game. Make no mistake, no matter how silly and happy you think the fey-folk are, CtD is every bit as dark and twisted as the other WoD games and it does belong on a shelf next to VtM, HtR, WtA, etc.
I personally Hated the oWoD Changeling, and felt it never belonged
I see this a lot and just don't get it. Ancient traditions, a world beyond that which mortals know, love, sadness, loss, violence, stuck between two worlds, magic, mixed reactions to the "modern" world, etc. All these things fit right into all the "classic" WoD themes.
In fact, going from that list, you couldn't tell if I was talking about VtM, WtA, HtR, MtA or CtD.
It almost requires GM Fiat to start and continue a game, and GM I ran with ruled all over the place in every direction possible.
Really? See, as the ST for CtD on numerous occasions, I really feel that it comes down to the players. I mean, CtD *needs* mature players who want to contribute to the world, more than any other RPG I've played. I mean, without their imput, their imaginations, their characters actually die (or a lot worse).
Off topic game tales:
I can't help but relate a tale of a CtD game we played through in response to the most-Matrix, nWoD world we currently live in. The public's imagination had been fired up and glamour was flowing pretty freely. But there was an unfortunate side effect of numerous chimera wandering around in dark glasses and leather coats trying to start bullet-ballets and kung-fu hustles.
My players wet themselves laughing when, during their first battle in the dreaming, this chimera started bending backward and slowly flailing his arms around in the middle of the fight. "Is he casting a spell?" "What's going on?" "I hide behind my shield!" *penny drops* *laughter for 10 minutes real time*
The troupe just walked off and left him to it, flailing away....
Abraham spalding wrote:
I think if oWoD and nWoD had come out at the same time, by two different companies in much the same way Pathfinder and 4e are doing, it would have been interesting to see which got picked up more.
That is a *very* interesting question, I'd not thought of.
I guess that WoD was/is a very generational thing. Perhaps a lot of us don't get nWoD simply because it wasn't meant for us.
I don't want to bash the guy, but after a couple of years of reading his posts and his replies to my wife's posts, his name has become something of a dirty word in our house. I really think his WoD is just not the same as my WoD.
Watcher wrote:
I find it interesting that the new Changeling became their runaway hitout of the reboot
I find it somewhat depressing and kinda telling about a section of the audience of nWoD. All the old CtD fans, in my neck of the woods at least, consider it to be inferior and a largely unjustified deep-teen-angst-fest. IMHO, it is nowhere near the standards or awesome of the original Changeling. That was game *made* for gamers - you can't get any more moving or epic than the death of imagination.
Can you enlighten me as to why you prefer one version over another
There are some good bits in the nWoD, but overall, I prefer the oWoD.
*The setting changes have not been all that well received by my group as they trashed what we had come to love, but not in any awesome way. We were excited at the possibility of nWoD, but, for example, VtR trashed VtM and replaced it with something that was sort of similar. If the games had been a lot more different, we would have been more excited. Ah well.
*The opposite is true for CtD vs. CtL - apart from the fairy connection, these two games are nothing like each other, and we were all disappointed to see that there is no nWoD analogue for CtD.
*The nWoD rules are much more streamlined, but this makes for bad gaming. Your vampire, werewolf, hunter, etc. all feel much more similar in nWoD than in oWoD, where the rules were seperate (but not un-combine-able if that was your goal). A lot of the nWoD stuff seems too "by the numbers" (PtC I'm looking at you!), as in, these are you fast guys, these are your tough guys, these are your social guys, etc. The rules just aren't as much fun.
*The "ethics" seem to be a little off too. We've gone from the sales of WtA contributing to environmental charities, to having to buy numerous "core" books, covering normals, firearms, etc. All that you needed was in a single book with oWoD. And coming from a D&D background, I *really* liked that.
1) An option we found to be quite balanced is just to do a simple spell-list swap out. Play a sorcerer with the cleric's spell list instead of their own, and it plays fine. At least, it did in our games. And with all the new Pathfinder bloodline powers, you should still have a bit of the tradtional magic about your character, too.
2) Play a paladin. Seriously, with a maxed out Charisma, you can do some serious healing! I know it's not quite the "non-divine" requested in the thread title, but it is an option.
I don't think you're alone in wanting an answer to this problem, over the years there has been a lot of demand for a decent healing class, who isn't a cleric. I think the problem is, though, that it is what the cleric does best, so a non-cleric healer is stepping on someone's toes.
If you can get your hands on the Paizo Dragon Compendium, you could also try a Sha'ir. I'm itching to play one myself, but don't know anyone who's given it a go. But they can heal, if you don't mind waiting while your Gen fetches the spell for you.
Just a quick thought - take a look at some of the Dark Sun stuff and the effects that magic can have on the environment. You could force the druid to choose between nature or their spells, with magic warping nature and not producing the desired results.
The way to handle the atonement for this could be related to solving the problems without recourse to magic. E.g. befriend the animals, plant the seeds etc.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this so far, but for a series that has always presented strong female characters, this movie was very sexist in it's treatment of women. Spoilers follow!
Spoiler:
The Terminator movies have always had a strong role for the girls. Hell, Sarah Connor is almost single handedly responsible for kicking off strong action women (obviously along with Ellen Ripley from Alien). The sequels did a good job keeping this alive, with Sarah returning in full force for T2, and the character of Kate in T3, plus the new model of terminator being a woman too - women kicking ass on both sides of the conflict. However, watching the blatant sexism in Terminator Salvation (T4) was painful and made me embarrassed 1) as a man, 2) as a human being, 3) for the movie's writers, and 4) for chief offending actress, Moon Bloodgood.
Her character Blair Williams, is a tough no-nonsense, competent fighter pilot. That I'm on board with. But let's just take a look at what happens to her character. She almost gets raped, putting up enough of a fight for testosterone-fulled men to get just a little excited and to claim it's not sexism because she tries to fight back. Then she gets saved by a big strong man. Then she, out of nowhere, after a night in the wilderness, decides she loves this man. Proceeds to risk the entire human race to help him escape, only to be saved, once again, by the big strong man, after being shot. Then, captured, she is only capable of giving an emotional response as the reason for her actions (the pre-feminist woman is an emotional creature, as well we all know), before being saved by another big strong man, who lets her off the hook.
The character of John's wife, is exactly that - John's wife. The Kate Brewster/Connor character from T3 has been replaced by a stereotypical "woman in the home". She doesn't fight in the war, she stays safely back at the base, worrying about how her husband is doing. When she does get into the thick of the action, she helps a wounded soldier, before giving up on him at the first sight of her wounded husband.
To be blunt - this is *bleep* awful from a franchise that has always done a good job with it's female characters. The spin-off TV show was even called the "Sarah Connor Chronicles", not the "John Connor Chronicles". This is 2009, not 1989 - even Bonnie Bedelia in "Die Hard" has got more girl power!
It didn't take my wife to point this out to me. I know it's a movie about John, not Sarah, Connor, but that is no excuse for poorly written female characters.
You know music can make or brake a movie sometimes. When the first movie came out fans were upset the "Transformers Theme" wasn't used. Well Revenge of the Fallen gives us a theme. [SNIP]
I wanted to cry. Then I clicked on the link to the new version of "The Touch" and I did.
That was awesome - thanks for linking! I loved the way the rest of the band seem to be hanging their heads, as if to say "There he goes again." You've got to wonder about his attitude, I mean, it's not as if BBT has the worst movie career ever. Doesn't he have an Oscar? He could've just dropped it, *he* was the one dragging it out.
As a certain metallic dragon seems to think: We are just 'nerdragers' buying stuff to show our displeasure with WotC. Laughable really.
I laughed hard at this:
Titanium Dragon on the WotC boards wrote:
Paizo isn't a way to help the industry. Its a way to hurt it.
People need to understand reality.
Those companies aren't helping the RPG industry at all. They are cancers.
I'm sorry to re-post it here, but I wanted an online record I could search for later and I figured not everyone here would have the fortitude to stomach sifting through some of the posts over there. The post above that billed this guy as a libel-case was bang on.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to get cancer from my Guide to Korvosa....
Nerd rage aside, I'm now considering my other *legal* options. Are there any good websites where you can buy OOP D&D books that ships to Europe (apart from ebay)?
Any chance of Paizo saving us once again and offering a second hand section of the online store?
Carry on - as I never got to play it, it is great fun to hear about! I got a copy of TMNT and Other Strangeness years ago, but it was too strange for my players. :(
Local Government Associations have decided there are some words that shouldn't be used in the office - I can only assume this has something to do with cutting down on "management garble" the worker-ants can't understand.
Anyway, I was surprised to see "Pathfinder" on the list, classed as "Why use at all?" I guess they don't want us discussing high-quality adventures around the water-cooler when we should be working, eh?
As "D&D" wasn't on the list, cue rumors about Hasbro having bought out the UK Government....
I still like my penguistirges. They're stirges that followed the same evolutionary trail from flyer to swimmer as a penguin....
Dude.
That is both sick and awesome in equal, huge, measures. I need to figure out a way of getting this into my games without upsetting my penguin-loving wife....
I know how you feel. Not good. Gotta find me a job!
Damn financial crisis!
I gamed with a guy who worked there some time back, it was a real eye-opener. He used to go on and on about how everyone that came for help were total losers and how they just needed to sort themselves out. How there were 25'000 jobs available in the system, so the unemployed were just being lazy and pathetic and so on....
I remember thinking, "Man, if everyone who works there is like that...." Regrettably, a lot of them are. Doesn't help anyone. :(
I'm not sure that I'd agree with it being used to get around the cost of scribing a spell completely. It seems like a stretch of the rules. However, based on this line:
Secret Page Spell wrote:
The text of a spell can be changed to show even another spell.
I think there's a case for the wizard who casts this as they scribe the spells in their spell book, reducing the effective spell level (and thus the costs) to a minimum of equal to Secret Page's level (3).
That'd give the wizard a break with regard to the page count and gold cost of scribing a higher level spell. It'd also keep Secret Page a useful spell without over powering it. Plus writing your spell book in code is just plain cool. Stage magicians do it for their illusions - why not fantasy wizards?
For clarification, this isn't an interpretation of the existing rules for the spell, but a rules suggestion.
I'm through talking about it, but I just wanna know one thing: what's something really really really really f#@@ing stupid (that wouldn't ruin multiple peoples' lives around me) that I could do so I could get up on the Today show and get like $100,000 or something?
I remember some guy on the internet was chopping off a digit on his webcam for every $10'000 or so. You could do the same, but with the body part of your choice.
I'd really like to get a winning idea like this. Even a small amount of cash could solve some problems....
I was thinking about the AD&D Amazons. They got a bonus when their opponents underestimated them, because they were scantily clad, un-armored women. Something like that might totally apply - I know we use something similar in our games, modifying stuff based on one culture's perception of another.
It's the sort of thing that can really help with immersion, but was too "fluffy" to make the cut in the hard and fast world of 3.x.