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Maybe they ought to drop the whole thing about the Rogue having to flank or have the opponent flatfooted and just give the Rogue some kind of precision damage feature like other classes have. Kind of a break with the past, but maybe it is time.

Another thing might be to actually go back to the ways 3.5 had of getting off sneak attacks (blink, grease, ball bearings, splash damage..) it wasn't overpowered in 3.5, and it definitely wouldn't be in Pathfinder (at least assuming nothing else was changed).

But there are other rogue issues like stealth being hard to pull off, rogues actually being worse at spotting ambushes than wis classes, and other such things.


I generally tend to dislike when they change characters solely to make a diversity statement. Why can't they make up a new character from ground zero?

Actually they have a really spotty record of doing that since the Silver Age. Seems like most of the newer characters that became popular like Harley Quinn and Wolverine (he's still new as major characters go) were accidents.

I didn't like when Peter Parker was killed off in the Ultimate Universe. That was still new enough that there were a lot of stories left in him.

Mainline Peter Parker? God, that history is just so long. Time to hand it off for that character.

With his case, it makes sense to replace him. He has been in so MANY comic books since he was introduced. Time for something new.

And if Miles Morales Spiderman sells, well it might as well be him. Seriously I don't think there is anything at this point they could do with Peter Parker that isn't a rehash of something already done. They could change the core of the character, but then he isn't Peter Parker anymore.

I really don't think he is the kind of character that could ever be anything but youthful as Spiderman as well. So if you took him into new territory by becoming 30'ish adult or even middle-aged I don't think it works.

Hmmm with all the time stories Marvel has done, there has to have been one with "geriatric" Spiderman, but I can't think of one. He was kind of not youthful in Universe X, but I don't remember that one too well.


Hmmm I guess martial arts is a subset of "Fighter," unless you are figuring that differently.

If I can use martial arts I say Shang Chi, Master of Kung Fu.

He really hasn't been used much since his series ended in the early 80's (?), but I always thought of him as the ultimate martial artist. None of the rest of the Marvel martial artists (yeah it was a thing once, like westerns) measure up: Sons of the Tiger, White Tiger, Iron Fist.

DC did okay with that theme, but Richard Dragon, Lady Shiva, none of the rest of them measure up to what Marvel was doing in the 70's with that. And Shang Chi was definitely the poster boy for that era. Hmmm Richard Dragon may be an older character than Shang Chi, not sure, but he just isn't as memorable.

Philosophizing with Shang Chi worked so well, unlike Mr. A or even the Question.


Just kind of thinking out loud, but dimension door is a third level spell for summoners, and I think (not 100% sure) you could make a potion of it.

So for what it is worth I think you can use a fourth level spell as a second level... resource for an Alchemist.


Phantom Steeds die if something so much as looks at it past a certain level.

"You conjure a Large, quasi-real, horse-like creature (the exact coloration can be customized as you wish). It can be ridden only by you or by the one person for whom you specifically created the mount. A phantom steed has a black head and body, gray mane and tail, and smoke-colored, insubstantial hooves that make no sound. It has what seems to be a saddle, bit, and bridle. It does not fight, but animals shun it and refuse to attack it.

The mount is AC 18 (-1 size, +4 natural armor, +5 Dex) and 7 hit points + 1 hit point per caster level. If it loses all its hit points, the phantom steed disappears. "

One fireball and odds are you are dismounted, not to mention any kind of melee or directed attack.

I like your idea, but to me you are going to need to get something more durable.

I wish there was a guide to mounts in general. Usually you see something for a particular class that discusses it in light of that class' features.

But I'd like to see one that detailed what you could buy, be it an animal or exotic mount, a figurine of some sort, a cohort, or monstrous mount. Then tell how you actually use a skill like handle animal to train mounts.

Actually I'd like to see a guide to handle animal that didn't have anything to do with druids or rangers. Seems like you could do something with a low level fighter and a pack of dogs, but you never see anything like this.

Or a pack of cats. You will destroy villages of commoners with ease.


Okay, my rules fu is weak.

The Cavalier's mount entry says:

"A cavalier gains the service of a loyal and trusty steed to carry him into battle. This mount functions as a druid's animal companion, using the cavalier's level as his effective druid level. The creature must be one that he is capable of riding and is suitable as a mount. A Medium cavalier can select a camel or a horse. A Small cavalier can select a pony or wolf, but can also select a boar or a dog if he is at least 4th level. The GM might approve other animals as suitable mounts."

It just never has occurred to me that you couldn't get a cheetah. The cheetah is listed under "Cat, Small" in the druid's animal companion list.

I know home games can adjust this however the dm wishes to, but apparently if you play PFS or want to really go by the rules it's not so clear cut.

Only thing is I want it clear cut. I really don't get a warm fuzzy over parsing text. I want what they intend for you to use spelled out in clear language that I don't have to spend any time figuring out what they intended.

Actually I want them to spell it out, as far as what they intended, like:

1) The intent is that Cavaliers (or really any class with a mount feature, unless they are a druid or summoner) not to have any way to get a mount with a fly speed.

2) We don't want the mount to have any special abilities like pounce or this sprint thing. So you can only have one of these pre-approved mounts. Oh wait, there is an archetype for animal companions that allows you to do this.

As it is, I get a headache trying to figure this out. I have monstrous mount options, Beast Rider archetypes, Beast Rider feats for orc blood characters, Huntmaster archetypes...

I do not have the slightest bit of interest in having to go through text located in different places, having to make interpretations of what they probably meant, or reading through a bunch of faq or random thread posts to figure this out.

Anyway rant off.


Well it doesn't have to be a halfling, and eventually I'm sure there is a way to get a large size cheetah...

But the Cheetah has this feature:

"Sprint (Ex)

Once per hour, a cheetah can move at 10 times its normal speed (500 feet) when it makes a charge."

So does that mean that once an hour the rider can also participate in this charge?

Maybe not ultimate cosmic power but still pretty interesting. Particularly if the 30' move you get from Horseshoes of Speed also gets the times 10 to movement.

I get the mental image of a wizard somewhere in the afterlife saying "I never saw him coming. I just turned around and BOOM!"


This has been on my mind some lately, by that I mean a mounted character.

The big beef with one is that rightly or wrongly they are identified as being too ... interlaced with the mount or something. I mean of the attractions to me would be to make a mounted character and really use Spirited Charge and the other mounted feats.

Of course this brings us to the issue of fitting into places.

I see you are playing a halfling, but how bad would it really be if you did play a medium size paladin? I guess if you are in Nirmathas you have a lot of outdoors stuff, but is the mount thing really as crippling as everyone says? Just thinking I can think of a lot of time in my experience you couldn't have used a mount, but a lot of times you could.

Actually it seems to me that mechanically it would have worked in a lot of situations, but you basically don't stay mounted all the time.

Like everyone is on foot looking at some kind of obelisk and you are the only guy staying on horseback. Just doesn't fit even a lot of outdoor situations.


Wow, pretty dark.

I think I might have attacked Stragh if I had been in the party and been there.

Of course that kind of thing leads to trouble usually too. Can't wait to see what happens with this party going forward.


andreww wrote:
sunbeam wrote:
You still have to have the focus item for a particular plane right? Not exactly a thing you pull out of your keester on a whim.

Nope, and even if you did as they have no gold cost there's 1 for every plane sitting in your component pouch.

Also I suspect the creature being referenced here is using Limited Wish as an SLA anyway.

I looked up Plane Shift and Limited Wish again after Undone's response.

I was kind of surprised that Plane Shift didn't take an expensive focus. I could have sworn it was a tuning fork or something that cost 500 gold.

Thing is this is the kind of thing that got too easy with 3.x and Pathfinder magic.

Get real, you ought to have to go to some trouble to use this spell for all these different planes. instead of the same pouch you brought at first level having one for planes you never heard of then.

Now it is just too easy. Guess I could look up the pre-3.x versions of the spell, but I could have sworn it wasn't so easy way back when.


You still have to have the focus item for a particular plane right? Not exactly a thing you pull out of your keester on a whim.


I prefer to think of it as you having been exposed to elf cooties or something.


Love evocation, even if it is a little sub-par compared to other schools (well unless you count Dazing Spell builds, but any damage spell can use it).

And like Rerednaw said, the dip into cross-blooded sorcerer is well worth it. Kind of cheesy in a way, because the possible penalties you would be paying as a cross-blooded sorcerer go away because they only apply to sorcerer spells, and you are only taking one level of that.

As regards your familiar/focus item I can't tell which you take. Familiar is probably more useful (especially with Improved Familiar).

But I also think the iconic wizard (Ebben?) has a cool focus item, one that will eventually be a rod of thunder and lightning.

There are a ton of feats and builds even for evokers now, so just look on the boards. There are some thing out there now that let you leave slots opens and prep them quickly, or cast any spell from your "school" spontaneously but I haven't really gotten into that since I don't have a lot of the books. (and there are so many feats now it makes my head hurt).


The Norv wrote:


Lynn, CN Human Rogue (Carnivalist): rarely seen without her cat, Spot, Lynn is the most cheerful...

Wow, I looked up that archetype and it is really cool. But why in god's name did they decide to make the animal trainer feature only apply to Tiny or Small animals? A Carny isn't supposed to train Bears or Lions?


That Raving Dork guy had a really good build using the Ju Ju archetype or whatever it was.

But the feature he used was totally nerfed in some revision.

Been a while since I looked but it is pretty crappy now.

Honestly you would be better off with a cleric I think.

Took another look at the Bones archetype. Yuck. Best of luck to you on that one.


One level of Flame Oracle gives you:

"Gaze of Flames (Su): You can see through fire, fog, and smoke without penalty as long as the light is sufficient to allow you to see normally. At 7th level, you can gaze through any source of flame within 10 feet per oracle level, as if using clairvoyance. You can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to your oracle level, but these rounds do not need to be consecutive."

Not my idea saw it somewhere on these boards a while back. It is a gimmick but a pretty good one I think. It also make ranged sneak attacking a lot more viable without making feint attempts or hide or whatever your angle is on that one. Plus if you went ranged on this you could hang out in the back in your cloud of smoke and not disrupt any other party members.


Hmmm I realize it doesn't reflect well on the rogue class but has anyone ever played a rogue that took a level or two of Oracle? There are a couple of mysteries that let you see through fog, smoke, or both I think (as do Fogcutter lenses?).

Given how many low level spells there are to make fogs and clouds it seems useful. And really the only thing that stops it are things like tremorsense and the like.

Not good for teamwork though.


I read the first one a long time ago.

Part of it was the hoopla about it (that's been around a long time).

I really didn't like it though. Sex in a story is just something I'm not interested in.

Strangely though sometimes a romance that is well told will grab my attention.

Which leads me to A Princess of Mars. Tarnsman of Gor is just so weak to me in comparison.

When it comes to this genre (planetary romance I guess it is called) I have never read anything that came close to it.

I think I have tried to read some more Gor books but never made it through one. And I have finished some pretty bad books in my life.

Wasn't my cup of tea. The whole setting and the plot just doesn't grab you. If you just always have the idea something like this should be about true love and romance, and Tars Tarkas and John Carter back to back in the arena, with Woolla running around somewhere, and White Apes in mysterious ruins...

Just doesn't do it.

Hope this isn't a threadcrap or whatever it is called now, just never could understand how this series sold so much and got so much attention.

Truthfully I found the sexual aspects of them pretty bland as well honestly, though I understand he ramped things up later on.

There are a lot of series that I always wanted to read (like Lin Carter's Gondwane books) I didn't have the money to buy when they came out in their pulpy goodness. A shame it had to be this one that you still see in print (at least sometimes).


Geez the real answer to me is that it was a common theme in 3.x, "Why don't sorcerers get Use Magic Device? They kind of suck anyway, and charisma is their main stat, which is mostly useless compared to int at least."

As far as UMD goes, it is an artifact that one of the class features of Thieves in 1st and 2nd edition was being able to use scrolls when they got to 10th level or something. Like everything else in 3.x this needed to be turned into a skill or something, where you could roll dice on it.

So when they got around to differentiating Pathfinder from 3.x, one of the house rules of someone or another was adopted, ie Sorcerers get UMD.

I really can't see it being any more complicated than that. My take is they didn't make this change because they went back to the underpinnings of the class and said "Sorcerers are connected to the basis of magic by nature, so they should have some sort of ability to manipulate it, regardless of form or source."

What is more interesting to me is how the skill is so easy to get as a class skill (traits) or it just comes with the class for no apparent reason (Magus). Not a scientific thing by any stretch, but it sure seems like more classes have it as a class skill than not now, at least the newer classes that come out.

I know that no matter what class I make now (Fighter for example) I make sure to put some feats, traits, and skill points into using it. Why not?


Koshimo wrote:


While not exclusive to the Swashbuckler, AC Origins contains the Corsair armor property which has an additional benefit for panache and grit users.
Thanks

That's not even universally useful for Swashbucklers.

Realistically I know that Gloves of Dueling were a bone thrown to fighters by the devs. I'm sure that people will come out of the woodworks saying they don't use them, and not all the fighter archetypes qualify because they give up weapon training. But how often do you see any fighter build on these boards or elsewhere that doesn't have a pair of these as soon as they can afford them?

Even if so, we have a clear example of an item that enhances one class alone (leave out the other classes and archetypes that can use them on occasion).

Why can't you make Gloves of Swashbucklery? Do the same thing as Gloves of Dueling, but they only enhance the Swashbuckler.

I guess if you play PFS you have to go solely with what is listed as items.

But is it really common in home games for Gloves of Dueling to exist, and nothing similar can be made for other classes? If it is ok for Fighters, why not another class?

You guys act like the devs are soothsayers revealing the natural law of the Pathfinder Universe, where Gloves of Dueling are a building block that cannot be imitated by other items by the basic laws of the universe.

Instead of these gloves being a bandaid for what actual play revealed to be a poorly designed class (compared to the other front line melee classes).


Cylyria wrote:

Lets see...

In Neverwinter Nights I had a lvl 25 fighter/Weaponsmaster who dual-wielded keen scimitars. Due to that broken ruleset I had a threat range of 10-20 while using 2 +4 Flameburst/Frostburst weapons. Things just exploded when she was around. Orthos might remember her (Courtney)

In actual PnP that would be the lvl 19 dwarf fighter in the Against the Giants campaign who ended up with a Hammer of Thunderbolts with all the trimmings and a natural con of like 25. 300 some odd HP's and AC in the mid 40's, he was a beast.

Wasn't there some weird thing about you had to be 6'4" to wield that thing?

Waaaay back I played the demoweb pit modules, and a Ranger in the group had the Hammer, Gauntlets, and a Girdle of Giant Strength.

I didn't play the Giants modules with them, but I gathered it was loot found in that series.

Just some nitpicky thing I remember about that item (assuming I am right).

Was so awesome then. Now? I'm not sure I have ever read or heard of anyone using or getting that item.


Eh, either way UMD is definitely worth it as a skill. Other than perception, maybe a few knowledges, what is more worth putting points in?

Just saying if I have points to spare I always put some in UMD, class skill or not.

And I have maxxed my UMD skill with classes that don't get it as a class skill, as well as Skill Focus and that one that gives you +2 to that and another skill (well I think I had a trait that gave it to me as a class skill actually).

Okay, not trying to be a derailer just that it is an awesomely useful skill when you can afford to buy some wands.


andreww wrote:
Evasion is decent but Revelation is better, especially if you have the UMD to activate off Mystery Revelations.

Is this actually a thing now? For all I know the devs said it was legal, but this has been debated in the past with little in the way of a consensus reached.


ShroudedInLight wrote:

I run one of those.

You can be duel-blooded and go for any combination of 2 reach boosting bloodlines for natural 20 ft of reach. Then you can use a Reach Weapon to hit 25, and a spell like Long Arm to hit 30...which you can cast for free later into the game when you rage.

I personally like Abyssal mixed with something because that gives you an Auto-Enlarge person and free claws. And those claws will hit anything the hammer cannot.

Unless your GM rules that a reach weapon simply doubles your range and lets you use reach boosts to make that range larger. In which case it is as simple as just taking one of the reach boosting bloodlines and casting Long Arm/Enlarge Person.

If you think about it cinematically, doubling reach makes sense on one level because you are using a weapon that basically lets you hit thing you couldn't with your fists, like a polearm.

But with the reach extending abilities, you are wielding a weapon of the same size, but your arms are longer. So I wouldn't just say it doubles it.

But with my reasoning when you use enlarge person...

Is there some order of operations with these things? Like apply size increases before anything else?

You get some odd thins with these abilities. Say you are some really small creature that takes bloodrager levels. You automatically get 5 feet of reach added, like a medium size character would?

What if someone plays an ogre? Only 5 feet?

Seems like the little dudes get more bang for the buck from this if that is the case.


I've read a lot of Morrison over the years.

I soured on him after a while. Final Crisis was the final straw, though it had been building for years.

Tastes differ, but my nerdrage... the memories of so many threads arguing about the guy... no takers when I tried to get them to explain exactly what the "meta" genius was.

But when he is on, he's on. The Captain Marvel Superman encountered in that Final Crisis one shot, was a "true" Captain Marvel.

Just saying I'm not surprised. I pretty much dropped DC a few months ago, except for any appearance of the Legion.

I'll have to pick this up. I honestly had no idea it had finally happened, I mean it's only been what... five years?


"In fact, the druid would go on to repeatedly attempt and fail to convince the vile crone to birth him an army of hagborn child soldiers."

I got nothin' on this.

However I can honestly say I do not want to party with that cowboy (Stragh).

So right now the party is:

Balragh - Half-Orc - Witch Doctor (Scarred Witch Doctor? The one that uses Stamina for everything?)

Zuriel - Was Aasimar but is now a Half-Orc (how is that going to work?) - Paladin

(Archer, but that doesn't necessarily mean the archetype. I looked into that once and my personal conclusion was base Paladin was a better archer than that archetype. Too many weird abilities to give archery abilities to party members, which is just kind of ... useless. If they are already archers they have these abilities already, if they aren't they aren't going to drop their usual schtick to use bows. Plus you give up some good things for this archetype)

Telkar - race unknown - Sylvan Bloodline Sorcerer (guess he is Sylvan with the animal companion)

Stragh - deviant Half-Orc - Wolf Shaman


thejeff wrote:
I find this amusing, considering the usual complaint that "Superman is boring cause of his powers, that's why Batman is so much more popular!"

I've never heard that about Superman. I have heard that they dialed his power up to not 11, but close to 100, which made him kind of boring.

It's a separate topic, but silver age planet moving Superman was kind of extreme. And yet plot wise he was always at the mercy of any yahoo who walked up to him with a lead box and lifted the lid to reveal...

Kryptonite!

Never mind that Superman could scan his surrounding for hundreds of miles a few times every second, looking for odd sized voids in his vision, like opaque things the size of ... boxes.

And it's not like he couldn't do that without missing a blink fighting Atomic Skull, reading the news, or whatever.

The guy could time travel without any equipment for god's sakes. Fly to Andromeda and be back before lunch. And take care of an alien invasion. All that and be back in time to meet Jimmy for coffee at the canteen.


drumlord wrote:


A Sea Singer bard, choosing a monkey familiar at second level, with a focus on using a rapier and a whip, taking the appropriate trait/feats to be able to use the whip to zip around difficult distances and gaps on ships. Also, being able to disarm somebody at high levels and throw their weapon 15 ft. away (possibly over the side of a ship) is pretty cool.

How would that work exactly? There are a ton of books now, and I'm not sure I know what you are talking about, but it sounds interesting.


Matthew Morris wrote:


I'm surprised to see you admit that Sam can't support his own book.

That is one of the problems with comics these days I think. Or maybe it is not a problem, just the way things are.

To explain what I mean by that, Sam Wilson as the Falcon... flies. That's about it. He also has a bond of sorts with his falcon (hence the name, and his original gimmick as a character besides being black and Cap's partner in the late 60's/early 70's).

That partnership worked pretty well for storytelling, just as the Green Arrow/Green Lantern one at DC did.

Now we have talked a little about the character. So why can't he support a book?

Rather than race I think it is because the character and his whole... angle is inherently boring to comic readers today.

They just don't care if the character can fly (which he has only been doing since the late 70's or something anyway). It's kind of expected. And they have less than zero interest in a telepathic bond with a bird or whatever it is.

A month or two ago there was a thread here about the Atom and Ryan Choi. The Atom has the same problem. He is just plain boring in a book. Someone who shrinks just doesn't have a wow factor anymore. All the stuff about controlling your mass just doesn't make the original premise any sexier.

Also I want to add that "mundane" characters like Batman and Captain America are almost aberrations now. Most readers prefer cosmic power like Superman, or great power to just plain elite normal humans like Bruce Wayne and comic book (non-Ultimate Cap, who was actually the power template for movie Cap, not 616 Steve Rogers).

You have to have a ton of history like both of those characters to keep fans reading them now. And a ton of company investment.

So no I don't think the Falcon or any character relatively mundane can support a book now. Look at all the trouble DC has had keeping Green Arrow and Hawkman going. I've lost track of all the restarts and tweaks.

What bugs me about this whole thing is it is cheap. They really don't have many "normal" characters that can stay in print, so they can't think of anything to do with Sam Wilson other than stick him into the same role Steve Rogers usually holds.

Besides being miffed at replacing Steve, I kind of think this highlights in a way some trends and issues with the comic industry as I've said.

Every few years someone does something like The Spirit, The Phantom, even Doc Savage. Usually it is some small volume house, the critics and stuff like Wizard like it, it gets talked about on boards, then it sells a small fraction of what Superman sells.

It peters out, till someone starts the cycle again.


Jiggy wrote:

Augury is simply one of the myriad game elements that completely falls apart when the GM decides ahead of time which things the PCs will and will not know. See also: Perception, Sense Motive, divination, and Knowledge skills.

You can tell your GM is telling his own story and you're just the audience when:
• Perception DCs on traps are 1 higher than the searcher's T20 result
• The only creatures who lie about anything important are things like succubi or other demons with unbeatable bluff skills
Augury and similar spells never give helpful information
• Knowledge skills get a per-round limit or an action cost, or are only allowed to ID things that you've personally seen previously in this same campaign
• Anything that would change the type of "feel" a given scene has or makes things play out differently than the GM expected (like bypassing an obstacle, not getting caught, pre-buffing with effects that actually matter, or using a tactic that makes a fight easier than anticipated) is labeled "game-breaking", "unbalancing", or other derogatory terms.

It has to be that way sometimes though. You've never spent a bunch of time making something, then had that creepy feeling when you realize one ability or check can make the whole thing fall apart? And you have nothing else to go with?

Maybe most of you guys are geniuses, and have contingencies for everything. Or you can make it all up on the fly, whenever. Or maybe just always see the plot hole or what might happen.

But it is usually a struggle for me to come up with something appropriate for any session.

Just the way it is in my book. Sometimes you are on a railroad because there aren't any good options, or any good ideas for where to take things don't pop into your head in a hurry.


I think this is one of those artifact things from pre-3.x.

In the old days there weren't spells like the conjuration school that ignored magic resistance.

So something like this would never affect a golem.

But when they made 3.x they started by having golems be like they always were, then they arbitrarily started having spells like Acid Arrow ignore spell resistance. And with each splatbook the spells started snowballing.

It also didn't help that saving throws for most things in general were nerfed, and the ability to enhance dc's of spells got thrown into the game.

This is just another one in a long line of faulty assumptions and designs in 3.x that were carried over to Pathfinder and never thought through.


Oh well, we get to see new characters at least. Not sure there is much you guys haven't touched yet in this thread though.


It might be considered universe shattering.

But I'd like the teleportion power as someone already suggested. But I want it without limits.

Across the universe. To other dimensions. To different times.

Basically if I want to do lunch after fighting dinosaurs, I go to fin de siecle Paris. Later I'm going to pop over to Barsoom to say hi to John and Deja (it's all real somewhere).

Absolutely no limits. I can go anywhere, any time. And what the heck I want to be able to take people with me too.


Call Item:

"You call a piece of nonmagical equipment worth 10 gp or less 'from thin air' into your waiting hand. (Actually, it is a real item hailing from some other random location in space and time.) You don't have to see or know of the item to call it—in fact, you can't ever call a specific item. You just specify the kind (silk rope, basket, torch, or some other item). This power cannot call weapons, armor, psionic items, masterwork items, living creatures, or valuable treasures (see Table 7-8 in the Player's Handbook for typical items called by this power). The item is made of ordinary materials appropriate for its kind. Using called items as spell components causes the spell to fail. If you relinquish your grip on the item you called for 2 or more consecutive rounds, it automatically returns to wherever it originally came from. Items gained by call item are distinctive due to their astral glimmer."

I totally want to do this for my toilet paper needs.


Matthew Koelbl wrote:


It was a cool scene, sure - but if Barry can do that, how does he ever lose any fight? It is the inevitable problem with characters with super-speed - it should be an 'I win' button for almost any fight, but that isn't very interesting to see. So how fast the character can move changes wildly from one moment to the next.

How fast can Barry go?

As fast as required for the drama of the moment.

You've hit a nail on the head, and it goes way back with this character and others with super speed (not to mention other powers).

Look Captain Cold, Heat Wave, neither of them are a threat to the Flash if they actually used his powers the way they could be. Before Captain Cold could depress the trigger on that cold gun he would find it is no longer in his hand, when he blinks he finds himself naked in a holding cell in the Central City police department.

Barry can literally stroll around with everyone standing still like a statue to ponder his next move. As you say they are inconsistent, but Barry could watch a bullet coming out a gun in slow motion then walk over and squint to see where the bullet will land.

Of course they also don't cover things like people breaking bones and necks because Barry lugs them around at super speed.

Super speed is a game breaker, but writers tend to blind spot it so they can actually have a story.


This episode disappointed me in a lot of ways.

1) Barry absolutely, positively should not have revealed his identity to the metal guy in the lockup. What was going through his head? And what was going through everyone else's head not to say "Barry you idiot! What are you doing?" Instead it was attaboy.

They must think their jail cells are unescapable. Me I look at them and smell "Prison Break." Right now the Mist and this guy are down there.

2) Okay, you generate enough kinetic energy, blah blah. I get it. But what kept him from breaking his hand even worse than before when he hit the guy?

Real science never has been the strongpoint of this character, because regardless of whether anyone can to metal hitting anything with a punch going at at super speed ... well you are going to break your hand a lot, because it has lots of ... kinetic energy.


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I wouldn't mind seeing Android ported onto desktop systems. Really you could do the same with Linux, but Android has so many phone and tablet users.

What made Windows big (the fact that end users only want to deal with one OS) could kill it as well.

Just depends on how things play out. But I think it would be a positive thing to have the basic OS people use to be out of the hands of a single company.


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Actually I'm pretty sure they all go to an island in the frozen north somewhere.

Then one day an elf and a reindeer with a glowing nose show up...


And just for the heck of it, here is a link to the cover of the last issue of the Marvel Family, the last appearance of the characters till DC did one of a number of reboots in the early 70's:

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Marvel_Family_Vol_1_89

I like the way the writers and artists chose to go out. Kind of a ghost in the machine kind of thing.


Yeah, I read that redo of the Monster Society. The biggest problem I had with it was that it was pretty definitely in the camp that Captain Marvel was a different person, or at least personality than Billy Batson.

That seems like hair splitting, but that question has been around as long as the character. Sometimes it is like Billy Batson is in an adult's body, other times it is more like they are two different people.

Curiously there was never any argument about Mary Batson and Freddy Freeman. Both were pretty clearly the same person in new bodies.

For me to really like a comic it does absolutely have to have a supporting cast. I really think of the enemies as part of the cast honestly. You kind of have to have a world around the character.

To me the classic Superman is the 1960's version. You had kryptonite, Krypto, Kara Zor-El (Linda Lee), Lex Luthor, Brainiac, Batman at times, the Justice League, Lois Lane, Perry White, the Daily Planet, Lori Lemaris, the Legion of Super Heroes, the bottle city of Kandor, Lana Lang still around some, Jimmy Olsen... god Jimmy Olsen is his own book. A shame you can't have a character like that in the modern era.

Maybe kind of camp and juvenile but it was such a rich world, and it has been mined and homaged a lot. I've always thought the biggest problem with Wonder Woman is that she never really had that. And she's been retconned and rebooted so many times it is hard to say what is associated with her world.

But yeah, Captain Marvel, at least the version I like is a very lighthearted kind of thing. He doesn't belong with the likes of the Killing Joke, Arkham Asylum, or any of this mega serious totally dark stuff.

Basically if any hero uses the word "Blood" or "War" in his name Captain Marvel doesn't belong there.


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Geez. I'm not the one you addressed, but I'll answer your question. Well with what I think about it.

People say "Shazam," and they have no idea why they say it or where it comes from. Captain Marvel is iconic, just like Batman, Superman, Spider Man, Captain America, the Hulk, Wonder Woman...

The character still has the record for most sales per month (was close to 5 million issues if you added up all the titles he appeared in).

To be honest, Captain Marvel was probably a more popular character than Superman from some time in the 40's to the time the Marvel Family was cease and desisted. It's been a long time but you can google up the legal antics from the 50's. I think knowledgeable people think in retrospect Fawcett could have won a legal battle against DC, but elected not to fight it out.

Now Captain Marvel has a "world" and peeps just like Superman. The wizard Shazam, Uncle Dudley, the Lieutenant Marvels, Tawky Tawny, Captain Marvel Jr (he who Elvis styled his hair after), Mary Marvel, whoever the guy at WHIZ radio was, and a whole lot more. He kind of had some accoutrements like the magic subway train, the Rock of Eternity, the statues of the Seven Deadly Enemies of Man, probably more that didn't stick in my memory.

Captain Marvel's enemies are great, at LEAST as good as Batman's or Flash's, and probably better in total than what Superman had. Doctor Sivana (as Grant Morrison noted he is the template for all other mad scientists), Kull, IBAC, Mister Atom, Black Adam, Mr. Mind, Captain Nazi, give me a while and I'll think of some more.

Now I'd like to state that most of what I am talking about is the original Fawcett run of the Captain, before the publication stoppage.

It's not my theory (though I believe it), but Captain Marvel the original one, just doesn't translate to the modern era. Too much humor, too much goofiness, he had things like Hoppy the Marvel Bunny for pete's sakes.

Attempts to reimagine him in the modern day usually don't really work. If you read the original Fawcett version (DC has or had some hardcover reprints), then read something like Geoff Johns' version of the character you are really put off. Or at least I was.

But the guy is iconic. The gimmick (a kid who becomes a superpowerful champion, the "World's Mightiest Mortal") has been used a few times I know of: Prime, the 2nd incarnation of Mar-Vell in Marvel comics with Rick Jones and the Nega Bands (who says comic book writers don't have a sense of humor?).

Funny thing is that some of the creative guys still get the character. The version in the cartoons Brave and the Bold and Young Justice was well in the spirit of the original character.

In the end, all I can say is read the original stories (40's and early 50's) with an idea for appreciating them with a sensibility not confined to a particular era.

If you do that modern incarnations of the character really just don't seem like The Big Red Cheese, rather just some kind of variant Superman.


Mystic_Snowfang wrote:
high dex worshiper of arshea, maybe a swasbuckler. With empyreal obedience you add your charisma to your AC, and your dex. and with the right magical items, naked sexy person distracting the enemies.

Might be another way to do it. With all the bite attacks, tumor familiars drinking potions, vestigial arms loading guns, and whatnot I see in build on these boards, there might be a whole new take on why a naked person distracts people in combat.


Freehold DM wrote:
I loved Ryan Choi. I loved the sea that a super hero could have a new person take up the mantle without the horrid death of the predecessor. I loved the philosophy parts of the comic. I hated how one of the few Asian superheroes was treated by the "fans".

I have a few thoughts on this:

1) The Atom (the Ray Palmer version with the shrinking belt, as opposed to the Golden Age fighting midget) is pretty iconic.

But "he" hasn't been able to stay in print in a solo series since the 60's, when comic book reading is this country was still widespread, spinner racks were everywhere, and the exile to the specialty shops had yet to happen.

The Atom is kind of similar to Wonder Woman (though her sales have never been as bad). Iconic, everyone knows who the character is, no one particularly wants to buy it. Hawkman is kind of similar.

The "wow" button was a lot easier to push with earlier generations. Now people just don't get into a guy that... shrinks as opposed to moving planets, wielding the power cosmic, or having universal level plot protection (the Batgod).

Seems to me I can think of about 5 or 6 attempts at an Atom monthly. This isn't the first time the Atom's identity has been changed. They even made "Swords and Sorcery" Atom. That didn't sell either.

2) Philosophy in a comic book is niche. Real niche. The comic buying public is smaller as I have said, and yet the fraction of that public that digs philosophy is no larger than it ever was.

3) Why exactly do they have to change the race of a character to make it diverse? If you want to use a Chinese person, why pick on Ray Palmer's gig? You can't make a whole new character?

Maybe that is harder than it looks for DC though. Most of their new characters just don't sell.

It is exceedingly rare for a new character to survive publication, let alone remain popular. It ebbs and flow, but Wolverine is about the only "new" character I can think of (originating after 1970 or so) that has made it to the gold standard.

Ms. Marvel (She is called "Captain Marvel" now? Lame, Marvel needs to do the right thing and let that name go un-trademarked or whatever it is. There is only one Captain Marvel, and his nickname is "The Big Red Cheese.") and characters like Nova and She Hulk have runs for a couple of years, then they go back to limbo or background status.

4) Gail Simone. As nearly as I can tell, the only time I liked her writing was when she wrote Secret Six. She had a knack for the characters and her plots and dialogue fit them.

You can't stick her on just any title and get something that works. I can't imagine what she would do with Fantastic Four or Batman.

Just for fun, imagine her writing Green Lantern.

5) Want to make the Atom work? Or at least be interesting? Find someway to blackmail Alan Moore and get him to sign on to do it for a year or two.

Only thing is only God or Cthulhu would know what you would get.

It would be interesting, but heaven help who tried to follow him on that book.


I would make the Rogue a full bab class.

Then I would make it such that a rogue can take any feat with a talent, none of this once (combat trick) stuff. (as a sidenote I'd also let the fighter take any feat with his selections, plus I'd give them a feat every level).

I would also have traits that gave actual swim and climb speeds.

Also would redo a lot of the talents that have limited use per day. I'd probably make them unlimited in some cases, or once per encounter.


The Dragon wrote:


I'm currently wondering whether reacting to bait in order to state that you are aware that it's bait and aren't going to fall for it constitutes failure to properly deal with bait.

S**! just got meta.

Before you start saying things like that, why don't you read over the optimization threads. I suggested the beastmass threads.

When you've done that, then let's talk.


But this isn't old school.

The ideal is to find unbeatable combos, such that if you win initiative it is an auto win. Literally the goal is to for the opponent to never even have the chance to react. Or to be blunt know what hit them.

And the dm has to cheat or break the rules to say otherwise. That is what gamemastery is, don't you know?

As to how you do this, shrug. It's all over these boards. Do a search for the beastmass threads, those are pretty good.

You might say that is extreme, but look at the optimization threads. There really is no alternative but for it to be rocket tag.


Hmmm, what size would a halfling synthesist be at level one with the eidolon manifested?


You need some Brachiation, and you need it bad.

As far as I know though, there isn't a way to get that movement mode?

Also need a climb speed.

My Tarzan is noted for swinging around on vines.


No spell casting? That eliminates Paladins right there.

Not sure of what archetypes out there nix spellcasting, but taking you at your stated desire, I'd say:

The cookie cutter Invulnerable Rager/Superstitious/Beast Totem is the best class in the game.

I don't have every book, and haven't seen or played a lot of these archetypes like Slayers and Brawlers.

But with what I have seen if you totally disallow any kind of caster, Zen Archers are about it to contest the Barbarian.


I've read this thread, but it is pretty long and it is easy to miss stuff in these long ones.

I have a couple of questions.

1) Does "Finally, for the purposes of these feats, the warpriest can select feats that have a minimum number of fighter levels as a prerequisite, treating his warpriest level as his fighter level." mean that a warpriest could take Greater Weapon Focus, and the Weapon Specialization feats?

2) No one really has a way to leverage Sacred Weapon? The enhanced damage seems like it would be tailor made to do something nifty with low damage weapons like whips (that have a lot of other features) but crappy damage.

This would include things like daggers or kukris if you are dual wielding.

I suspect that two handed weapons would still pretty much outdo two weapon fighting, but a warpriest actually could afford to spend a lot of feats on this, and make the weapons hit hard.

The whip has so many other features, that it seems like a very interesting weapon to use for this.

Incidentally would the air blessing let you avoid attacks of opportunity wielding a whip?

Also might Sacred Weapon even be of interest with things like darts, javelins, and sling bullets? Heck, couldn't you designate "rock" as your sacred weapon?

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