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spectrevk's page

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 400 posts (401 including aliases). 2 reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 8 Pathfinder Society characters.


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So you're looking for Melee AND skill-based, or Melee OR Skill-based? Are they short on heavies (Fighter/Paladin/Cavalier), or do they just need melee damage with some utility (Barbarian/Rogue/etc.)?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Sanity rules sound like fun; IIRC the haunts in this game are pretty intense.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

+3 on swim checks is quite good for a class that will likely be low on strength and unlikely to want to spare many skill ranks in Swim. Land-based or not, a lot of Paizo modules (especially PFS ones) tend to put you in "swim or die" situations from time to time.

Character-wise, a witch who spends her time communing with an octopus in a jar hits a good place between creepy and hilarious.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Myslimira is a young itinerant witch from the hinterlands of Ustalav. She was born in a remote village and learned about folk remedies, superstitions, and legends from her mother and grandmother. They also warned the young girl of allowing herself to appear "too clever" lest she run afoul of the superstitious townsfolk, but Myslimira was too proud to listen, and after "humbling" a Scarzni thug with a fiery display of magic, she was driven out of town by angry villagers.

Myslimira kept moving after that, traveling across Ustalav to seek out wisdom from other witches and help other peasants when she could with her knowledge of herbs and healing magic. It was during this time that she met Professor Petros Lorrimor. The Professor saw a spark of intellect in the young girl, and despite her lack of formal education, he realized that she had acquired an impressive store of knowledge and the two of them developed a rapport. She had never met a "civilized" man who respected her style of magic, and having grown up without a father, she grew quite fond of him. He soon became the main reason that she journeyed to the city, and hearing about his travels and most recent studies. It had been many months since they had last spoken when she wandered back into the city and learned from one of his students that the Professor had passed away. Much to her surprise, there was a letter waiting for her as well, requesting that she attend his funeral...

Myslimira (Witch level 1) and Bogdan (a brown rat)
Chaotic Good Human
Traits: Inspired by Greatness (Burning Hands @ +1 caster level), Resilient (+1 fort)
Languages spoken: Common, Orc, Sylvan, Infernal, Abyssal
STR 10
DEX 14
CON 13
INT 18
WIS 12
CHA 10
Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +3
Feats: Elemental Focus (fire), Extra Hex (Cauldron)

Skills:
Craft (Alchemy) +12
Heal (Wis) +5
Knowledge (arcana) +8
Knowledge (history) +8
Knowledge (nature) +8
Perception +3
Spellcraft +8
Use Magic Device +4

Patron: Spirits

Hexes known: Ward, Cauldron

Spells Known:
0: arcane mark, bleed, dancing lights, daze, detect magic, detect poison, guidance, light, mending, message, putrify food and drink, read magic, resistance, spark, stabilize, touch of fatigue.
1: burning hands, cure light wounds, mage armor

Spells Prepared:
0: guidance, light, stabilize
1: burning hands (DC 16, 2d4), mage armor


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Ah, okay. Similar, but somewhat silly question: Could a land-based witch have an Octopus familiar that she keeps in a jar or something?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I apologize if this has been asked before, but I checked the FAQ for the Advanced Player's Guide and didn't see anything.

The Witch's Familiar is said to work similarly to the Wizard's, but there is no mention of whether Witches also get the Alertness feat from their familiars, as Wizards do, and I didn't want to assume. Can anyone clarify this for me?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Arachnofiend wrote:
spectrevk wrote:
CWheezy wrote:
Wood is actually really really good if you only take one level, because you can get wood shape which counts for early entry mystic theurge!
I don't think having a Spell-Like Ability that "functions like" a 2nd level spell counts as "being able to cast 2nd level Divine spells" for the purposes of qualifying for a Prestige Class.
Neither did we, until Paizo came out and explicitly allowed it.

Wow, really? I checked the FAQ and couldn't find it, but I'll take your word for it. So many weird rulings lately.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
CWheezy wrote:
Wood is actually really really good if you only take one level, because you can get wood shape which counts for early entry mystic theurge!

I don't think having a Spell-Like Ability that "functions like" a 2nd level spell counts as "being able to cast 2nd level Divine spells" for the purposes of qualifying for a Prestige Class.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
Waves is only useful in a heavily water-based campaign, such as Skulls & Shackles.

Not true. Fluid Travel is pretty much the only Revelation that "requires" a water-based campaign, and even then the ability to walk on Acid without damage can be useful in a land-locked campaign. As for the Bonus spells, Slipstream works on dry land, so it's really just Touch of the Sea and Water Breathing that become useless in a desert campaign.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Dark Immortal wrote:

I disagree about flame. I have recently been inspired to create an oracle of flame and posted it's progress here.

Seems anything but weak to me.

Lunar, Stone and Juju seem rather weak but they each have strong revelations depending on what you want to do. Honestly, none of them seem particularly weak. The oracle mysteries are all actually quite cool. In fact, they allow several character themes to be built far better than other classes which seem naturally more suited to the theme (I am looking at you, druids).

Yes, burning spell needs some synergy with the abilities the flame oracle gets. But you don't need it to. Mayhem, if you followed the link, is not optimized for damage and does plenty of the stuff regardless (among other things). In fact, I think that a properly built flame oracle can be devastating and thematic.

I firmly agree that each of the Oracle Mysteries are *cool*, I'm just talking about mechanical superiority here. Flame gets the short end of the stick in my opinion. Compare Burning Spell to Freezing Spells, for example. I think your build is great, but it's as much of a Sorcerer as it is a Flame Oracle, to be fair.

Stone is fine, IMO, and much better than Flame. Seeing through stone has far more utility than seeing through smoke (dungeon scouting is no joke), and the ability to create difficult terrain on command can create some very interesting tactical scenarios. Add in the ability to damage weapons that strike you, resist bull rush/trip attempts, and create free trip attempts for yourself, and you have the basis of a pretty nice frontline fighter who can back up your capital-F Fighter and throw in some heals when needed.

Juju is complicated, as it depends on which version we're talking about. Lunar has already been defended.

andreww wrote:

Flame is a decent Oracle Mystery with the advent of dazing spell. Fireball and Wall of Fire are both excellent choices for it. The elemental transformation is an excellent revelation as are Gaze of Flames and Cinder Dance. People routinely dip a level of cleric just for the 10' move boost from the Travel Domain. Cinder Dance gives you that and more. For a class which is likely in slowing medium or heavy armour that is very useful. Gaze of Flames sets up all sorts of options with various cloud spells.

Many of the rest are a bit dubious. Fire Resistance isn't bad as it is a common element. Wings of Flame saves you room having to pick up Air Walk for a while.

I consider Wood as one of the worst mysteries. You get one decent spell with Barkskin, the rest are pretty much awful. The revelations are all awful except maybe Lignification. Wood Bond might have been OK if you had the feats spare to invest in archery.

Dazing spell is nice, but it's better with a Wizard or Sorcerer than it is with a Flame Oracle. The problem with the Mystery is that it has no focus; it's a little blasty, but not blasty enough to hang with an offensively-focused Sorcerer or Wizard. It doesn't have the tools to be relevant in the mid-line, where Divine Casters usually hang out.

Wood has a similar problem, as it's too focused on the "theme" of Wood, without really committing to a role. You could make an interesting character out of a Wood Oracle, but you'd be poorly optimized for PFS.

As for the questions about Time Oracles...Erase from Time is a useful bit of crowd control for anyone with a weak Fort save (so, casters basically...), and it comes at a point where casters will be some of the toughest challenges for the group. Re-rolls are nice, as is a free Haste/Slow. There are more fun options for a Support Oracle (Life, for example). Time has some good options, the main weakness is that the level requirements for most of its Revelations leave you with few options from 1-7.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Among my friends, feelings are mixed about the Oracle class. But among those who like it, I've found that the same Mysteries tend to be brought up: Life, Ancestor, Battle, and maybe Bones. But what are the *worst*, or, to put it nicely, "more challenging" Oracle Mysteries, in your opinion?

To get things started, I'm going to say Flame. Why Flame? Because:

- Revelations are centered on blasting, but it has no mage armor-like revelation to enable a more magey build (unlike, say, Bones or Wind), nor does it have a way of substituting Charisma for Dex in your combat stats to encourage melee builds(unlike, say, Lore or Nature)

- Burning Magic is objectively worse than Bleeding wounds, because it only works for spells that have saving throws, and only works if they fail their saving throw, and even if it *does* work it only lasts for a maximum of 1d4 rounds. Bleeding Wounds, a Bones revelation, does damage until they either get some healing, or succeed at a DC 15 Heal check (something most NPC enemies will be unable to do). Likewise, Burning Magic can be escaped with a simple Reflex save by merely expending a Move Action (the heal check to remove Bleeding Wounds is a Standard)

- None of its abilities have synergy. Again, a Bones Oracle can activate Bleeding Wounds using one of their abilities, Death's Touch. None of the Flame Oracle's abilities can activate Burning Magic, even if they offer a saving throw, because the ability only works with spells.

- Molten Skin is incredibly stingy, considering that Flame Oracles already get Resist Energy as a bonus spell. Worse yet, it doesn't stack with Resist Energy, so it's more or less useless. This is actually the Flame Oracle's biggest issue: too many filler Revelations (Gaze of Flames, Cinder Dance, I'm looking at you)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Archery Druid is...well, he's going to have to accept that it's going to suck a little until 3rd level, since there's really no way for him to get Precise Shot before then.

Without Precise shot, he's stuck attacking on his own, or dealing with a -4 penalty on his attacks against targets that his party members are attacking in melee.

If he wants to take the Animal Companion, that's fine. He can live without the extra Domain spell slots, and still be a decent caster. Moreover, the Animal Companion (if built right) can carry him in combat for the first two levels. So ideally:

He's an Elf, gets Longbow prof. for free, takes Point Blank Shot at 1st level as a feat.

At level 3, he takes Precise Shot, and is actually useful as an archer in combat.

Spell-wise, I'd recommend CLW and Magic Stone for the first two levels. After that, Produce Flame will likely be a better 1st level offensive spell for him. He'll also gain access to some great buff spells at 3rd level. If he's looking to be a more "blasty" caster with a nature theme, point him towards a Wood School Wizard.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
LazarX wrote:
It's come up before. Chronicles and APs do occasionally break rules intentionally. It's kind of a reminder that even the CRB was not carved in stone.

Huh. I wasn't aware of that. Well, it makes sense, I suppose.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I originally posted this in the Modules forum, but it occurs to me that this might be a more appropriate place.

One of the items in the treasure horde given to players who complete Tula's Crypt in The Dragon's Demand is a +1 Keen Composite Longbow (+2 Str). This goes directly against the magic item rules that state that Keen is only applicable to melee weapons that deal slashing or piercing damage. Has there been any official word on this? What item should replace it?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The group I'm running through The Dragon's Demand just completed Tula's Crypt, and one of the rewards is a +1 Keen Composite (+2 STR) Longbow. The problem, of course, is that Keen can only be applied to a slashing or piercing *melee* weapon. This appears to be a typo, but I haven't seen any errata to correct it. Any suggestions?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Any chance of getting this in widescreen/higher resolution?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Darinius wrote:
DM Jelani wrote:
A-mei-ko would probably be three characters in Chinese (and they would be romanized differently)

I don't think her name would need to be transliterated into characters since it is obviously supposed to be like Japanese. Just pick some characters that mean something cool that have a reading at least reasonably close to Ameiko and make a nickname based on that.

Then again I find it odd that she does not speak Minkan even though her name is obviously supposed to represent that language. Speaking Tian makes sense because it is probably the court language and even if the Kaijitus are not noble they might want to imitate the elites, but not speaking Minkan is kind of weird.

Minkan wasn't defined as a language of its own at the time that Ameiko was first statted out. I imagine an updated stat block would list both languages for her.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Shiori Kaijitsu wrote:

Updated

Ameiko:
Shiori Kaijitsu - Master Spy 1
Darinius - Dragon Disciple 1
Gorou Kaijitsu - Student of War 1
Allysen - Barbarian 1

Koya:
Gilford Dao - Rogue 1

Shalelu:
Asako Hamada - Magus 1
Irnk, Prodigal of Old Deadeye - Paladin 1
Kazumi Yamada - Bard 1

Sandru:
No one still (poor poor Sandru ;.;)

Unknown (Cannot find a campaign trait on write up):
Sarannae Dawnborn - Eldritch Knight 1
Exiel - Paladin 1
Vera Fireshot - Gunslinger 1

Interest
Everyone else

I'd also like to note the lack of a dedicated divine, not even a mystic theurge yet.

If it's a concern, I could easily rework Asako's concept into a Battle or Ancestor Oracle.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I love the idea that this could become the Kaijitsu Family Vacation.

I'm willing to change campaign traits to make this happen :D


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
MiniGM wrote:

Oops sorry I missed the ratfilk question

It's fine in theory but remember that you would be the only ratfolk in standpoint and what that might mean

It's fine; I like the Kensai idea much better, and I already came up with a background and stats for it.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I like the one you went with. No idea what I'm going to end up with.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I didn't hear back about the Ratfolk Alchemist, so I decided to go in a different direction. Meet Asako, the Kensai.

Asako was born and raised in Sandpoint, the only daughter of two glass artisans who worked in the Kaijitsu Glassworks. Asako knew little of why her parents chose to leave Minkai until she discovered a beautiful antique Katana stashed in her family's attic. She was transfixed by its beauty and couldn't understand why her parents were so upset when they saw her with it.

In a fit of pique, Asako ran into the hinterlands with the sword, and was soon set upon by a horrible Bugbear. Asako's feeble attempt to defend herself using the katana only amused him, but before he could drag her off to unknown tortures, he was beset by a flurry of arrows. Quick as lightning, Shalelu grabbed the young Asako and flung her over her shoulder and escaped. Asako begged the elf not to take her home, fearing her parent's wrath, but Shalelu was adamant. Still, she took some time to talk to Asako's parents first, and it was then that the girl came to understand their feelings.

Asako's parents were descended from rival warrior clans in Minkai, and had initially met during a tenuous peace between their Houses. They soon fell in love, and knowing that their families would never allow them to marry, they forsook their duties and honor, as well as the practice of violence. Her father sold his sword to pay for the trip across the roof of the world, and they'd kept her mother's swords hidden away as a nest egg. Her parents remained uneasy with Asako's fascination with swordplay, but under Shalelu's advice they decided to allow her to choose her own path, as they had done when they were young.

Swordplay enhanced the young girl's focus, and she turned her keen intellect towards the study of magic at the academy in Sandpoint. Tragically, Asako's parents were slain when goblins attacked the Glassworks. She still feels guilty that she was not present to protect them, and has spent more time of late practicing on her own, in the wilderness. Secretly she hopes to encounter that Bugbear again, to prove to herself that her skills are more than simply empty performance.

Asako is a quiet, somewhat withdrawn young woman with very short hair and a lithe, athletic build. She is not anti-social, but seldom sticks out in a crowd or draws attention to herself.

Character Stats:
Asako
Level 1 Human Magus (Kensai Archetype)

STR 14
DEX 14
CON 12
INT 16
WIS 10
CHA 08

BAB: +0 Fort: +3 Ref: +2 Will: +3
HP: 10 (8+1+favored class bonus)
AC: 16 Touch: 16 Flat-Footed: 10
AC w/Shield: 20
Arcane Pool: 4

Katana +3 (1d8+2/18-20)

SKILLS (those marked with * are class skills)
Acrobatics *(Dex) 1+3+1(+2)=7
Climb* (Str)
Craft* (Int)
Fly* (Dex)
Intimidate* (Cha)
Knowledge* (arcana) (Int) 1+3+(+3)=7
Knowledge* (dungeoneering) (Int)
Knowledge* (local( (Int) 1+3+1(+3)=8
Knowledge* (planes) (Int)
Perception (Wis) 1+3+(+0)=4
Profession* (Wis)
Ride* (Dex)
Spellcraft* (Int) 1+3+(+3)=7
Swim* (Str)
Use Magic Device* (Cha) 1+3+(-1)=3

TRAITS
Friend in Every Town: You have no problem making friends and learning information from them wherever you go. You gain a +1 trait bonus on all Knowledge (local) checks and Diplomacy checks. One of these skills (Knowledge: local) is always a class skill for you.

Tireless Logic: Your curious mind figures out even the most complex problems. Once per day when you make an Intelligence-based skill check or ability check, you can roll twice and take the better result.

[Campaign Trait] Rescued (Shalelu): You gain a +1 trait bonus on Acrobatics checks and Acrobatics is a class skill for you. In addition, you gain a +1 trait bonus on all attack rolls against foes that threaten your savior.

CLASS ABILITIES
Canny Defense (Ex): At 1st level, when a kensai is wielding his chosen weapon, he gains the canny defense ability. This is identical to the duelist prestige class ability of the same name (Core Rulebook 382), save that his chosen weapon may be of any type.

SPELLS (those marked with a * are her default prepared spells)
0 (2 per day): acid splash, arcane mark, dancing lights, daze, detect magic*, disrupt undead, flare, ghost sound, light*, mage hand, open/close, prestidigitation, ray of frost, read magic, spark.
1 (1 per day): Shield*, Color Spray, Vanish

FEATS
Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Katana [archetype proficiency]
Weapon Focus: Katana [archetype bonus feat]
Dodge [level 1 feat]
Power Attack [human feat]

EQUIPMENT (average wealth for class: 140gp)
Masterwork Cold Iron Katana 400gp[special item]
Traveler's Outfit -
Magus' Kit 22gp/31 lbs.
Cold-Weather Outfit 8gp/7 lbs.
Cleats 5gp/2 lbs.
Cold-Iron Dagger 4gp/1 lb.
Quarterstaff -/4 lbs.
10 Pitons 1gp/5 lbs.
Hammer 5sp/2 lbs.
Light Crossbow 35gp/4 lbs.
50 Crossbow Bolts 5gp/5 lbs.
Total: 80.5 GP spent
Gear weight: 61 pounds plus clothing/katana
4pp 9 gp, 5sp remaining


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

How would you feel about a Ratfolk Alchemist, with the racial archetype? Failing that, I have a few other ideas, but I'll need to get home to my books before I can actually write anything up for you.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

This sounds interesting, and I've never played a messageboard game before on these boards. Do you still have room?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
HangarFlying wrote:
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
spectrevk wrote:
Can you explain, then, in what universe the errata'd Crane Wing is "as attractive" as its alternatives?

We were shooting to make it on par with some of the other style feats in Ultimate Combat. Whether or not we were successful I think is the point of this thread. Its pretty clear most folks here feel we fell short of the mark.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

Just because those people are whiny, loud, and vocal about it doesn't make the change wrong. They're not pissed that the new Crane Wing is actually now on par with other feats in UC, they're pissed that the new Crane Wing isn't the old Crane Wing.

I'm kind of wondering why this isn't being "removed" for being a personal attack, but I suppose that only matters if you're on the wrong side of the argument.

Regardless, the new Crane Style feat is not "on par" with the other feats in UC; it's now objectively inferior to the other defensive styles (Snake/Turtle).


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
gustavo iglesias wrote:
spectrevk wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:
Kudaku wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:
It's not more fiddly than the current errata'ed version, which does the same but against a single attack
Absolutely, though I like to think we're aiming higher than the current version of Crane Wing :)

Another option I thought, is to make CW deflect the attack BEFORE the roll is made.

It still will cause issues with the people who doesn't like the T-Rex being ass-kicked, I guess. But it tone down a lot the effect of the old Crane Wing.

EDIT: the easiest solution, is to allow the +4 to be declared AFTER the roll is made. But the development team seem to be against this kind of roll alteration, as if the roll itself is part of the gameworld and once the dice says you are hit, you are hit.

Wouldn't you be better off simply having Shield cast on you, since Shield gives you +4AC against everything, all the time, rather than just one person, if you declare it ahead of time?
Shield is a shield bonus. I try to have both, but that's besides the point. If you are asking for a feat that gives +4 dodge, all the time, that's way too much, it's impossible that a feat like that pass the Developer's veto.

Crane Wing can only be used by people who are either unarmed, or only wielding a weapon in one hand...that is, people who cannot carry a shield, and thus will not have a shield bonus. So even with this new version of Crane Wing that you propose, they will be objectively worse than a guy with a magical shield, or anybody affected by a Shield Spell (for example, an Eidolon).


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
gustavo iglesias wrote:
Kudaku wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:
It's not more fiddly than the current errata'ed version, which does the same but against a single attack
Absolutely, though I like to think we're aiming higher than the current version of Crane Wing :)

Another option I thought, is to make CW deflect the attack BEFORE the roll is made.

It still will cause issues with the people who doesn't like the T-Rex being ass-kicked, I guess. But it tone down a lot the effect of the old Crane Wing.

EDIT: the easiest solution, is to allow the +4 to be declared AFTER the roll is made. But the development team seem to be against this kind of roll alteration, as if the roll itself is part of the gameworld and once the dice says you are hit, you are hit.

Wouldn't you be better off simply having Shield cast on you, since Shield gives you +4AC against everything, all the time, rather than just one person, if you declare it ahead of time?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
GamerDJ wrote:

I've been reading this thread since it started and have noticed some interesting points aside from the changing of Crane Wing.

It seems many people are looking at builds as if they were looking at the Matrix Code!

We all know this is a game that involves numbers, and that game mechanics allow a steady flow and progress to the game play. But it seems many forget that is also a Role-playing game.

By this I mean it's not just about numbers and what you can do, but about the feel and style as well.

Some builds, characters, feats, or powers maybe more powerful than others in many scenarios, yet many of the feats and builds are not there to just be better or more powerful than the last. It's to create flavor for each and every character that is brought to life by a player.

My flavor, for example, is a Barbarian I play in PFS. He is currently level 7 and I have him wearing +1 Hide armor and his Dex is 16 (with a belt of Dex +2). Now I know I could go get me some nice shiny mitheral full-plate and have a much better AC (It's currently 20 with his armor dex, a amulet of +1 Nat armor, and a ring of protection +1), but that would not give the roleplaying flavor of this character.

Sometimes it's about the style and flavor over the mechanics and numbers.

As for Crane Wing I feel the change is fine. At least it still fits the flavor of the Style it was intending to express.

This is a mechanics discussion in the Rules forum; your argument doesn't seem particularly relevant here. Game mechanics do not prevent roleplaying, and roleplaying is not an excuse to allow blatant power inequalities to exist in a game system.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Shisumo wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:
Does that means that if I never buy a new errataed version of Ultimate Combat, I'm allowed to use the old version of Crane Wing?

As has been noted by a number of people in the numerous threads on the topic - with varying amounts of defiance - you can do that whether you buy the new edition or not, as long as your GM allows it/you're not playing PFS.

gustavo iglesias wrote:
I don't see how you can make an errata to nerf martials, but making an errata to buff them would mean you are forcing people to buy new books

Consider, if you will, the number of people who would insisted, prior to the errata, that you need to know about Crane Wing to make a decent defense-oriented martial character.

There's forcing and then there's forcing.

The only thing that has changed due to this errata is that now, you simply *can't* make a decent defense-oriented martial character. Is that really an improvement?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Kudaku wrote:

Another downside of this particular development system is that spellcasters constantly get access to more resource options (clerics in new spells known for free, alchemists, magi and wizards in new spells known for a cost, the spontaneous casters in the form of scrolls and wands) with each new book, while the martials are still working under the original limitations in how many feats they can pick - there is no 'scroll' option for feats, so they can't pick up "situational" feats the way, say, a sorcerer will do.

One really, really exciting development on this front is the Brawler class ability that lets him pick up feats on the fly - I'd love to see a fighter archetype with a similar mechanic but without the focus on, well, brawling.

Technically, Ultimate Campaign does introduce rules for retraining feats, but the point still stands, since this option requires an additional book, and clearance from the GM.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Jason Bulmahn wrote:

That is a game we play with every option. We endeavor to get things around the same level, all things being equal in terms of cost and expected level of acquisition. We are not aiming to put out feats that are worse and worse, nor do we endeavor to put out spells that are worse and worse. We want them to be just as attractive, or in the case of rules that explore new directions, to be a viable and fun alternative. Like I said, we dont get it right every time, but that is the goal.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

Can you explain, then, in what universe the errata'd Crane Wing is "as attractive" as its alternatives?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Liz Courts wrote:
Removed a post—please state your opinions without making it personal.

It's really unfortunate that you removed that post, I thought the person made a very good argument regarding why this change is so frustrating.

For starters, these changes seem to overwhelmingly affect melee classes, rather than casting classes, which is problematic in itself because casting classes start from a position where they can replicate anything done by a non-casting class using only a spell.

Secondly, altering an analog, table-top game like this so frequently is frustrating as someone buying the actual books, because it devalues the purchase; now I have to go print out errata and stick it in the book, or accept that my purchase is now worth less than the PDF that someone bought, or (worse yet) the PRD website that someone else accesses for free.

Thirdly, there was nothing really wrong with Crane Wing. It worked once per round, it was relatively simple, and it gave unarmed/one-handed melee characters a way to remain relevant in a game that seems bound and determined to force them to either go sword 'n board or heavy 2-hander, or give up entirely and just make a Summoner because Eidolons are basically just better than having an actual Fighter.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'm very disappointed in the changes made to this feat. In its original form, it only allowed you to deflect a single attack per round, leaving the player easily vulnerable to full-attacks from monsters with high attack bonuses (read: most monsters).

As it is now, it's obviously inferior to Snake Style, and no longer makes any sense/has any real synergy with the rest of its feat tree, which focus on fighting defensively. Major changes like this should not be done in a tabletop game like Pathfinder; this isn't an MMORPG that can be re-balanced every few weeks based on the whining of the forum crowd.


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DunDraCon is a good idea, but keep in mind that if you're close to BART, there are some good options in Oakland/Berkeley as well.

It's Your Move [4920 Telegraph Ave, Oakland, CA 94609(510) 547-4386] has a Warhorn site (http://v1.warhorn.net/its-your-move/) that they use to manage sign-ups for their games. They're the closest to me, and when I had time for PFS (they run on Wednesday nights, 7-10pm) I had a great time there. They're not as close to BART as some places, but they're near the freeway, reasonably close to Macarthur and Rockridge BART, both of which have bus lines that pass by the place, IIRC.

EndGame [921 Washington St, Oakland, CA 94607 (510) 465-3637] is in Downtown Oakland, near BART, and they do Pathfinder Society on Mondays. I've never played PFS there, so I can't vouch for anyone. Their website has an event calendar: http://www.endgameoakland.com/event-calendar/

Eudemonia [2154 University Ave, Berkeley, CA 94704 (510) 883-0814] is in Berkeley, also near BART. They do Pathfinder Society on Tuesdays, and their website has an event calendar: http://www.eudogames.com/calendar

Games of Berkeley [151 Shattuck Ave, Berkeley, CA 94704 (510) 540-7822] is within walking distance of Eudemonia, has more of an RPG focus, and runs Pathfinder Society on Fridays. Their event calendar can be found here: http://www.gamesofberkeley.com/calendar/

So any weekday except for Thursday, you've got PFS options within reasonable striking distance of San Leandro/Hayward/Castro Valley.


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Some people think more optimization means less role play.

In all fairness, it typically does.


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Zhayne wrote:
Galahad0430 wrote:

I've both played and DMed with Crane Wing and it was never overpowered. I have a martial character that is a frontline fighter that will easily stand up to a crane wing fighter

Also, I dont play monks, so your snide comment was meaningless. As to mine, it wasn't over exaggerated, it was dead on. Again, there are many simple, non-overwhelming ways that get around crane wing.
When something is so powerful that you have to design around it, it needs nerfed.

Then why hasn't anything been done about the (various) abusive things you can do with pretty much any arcane caster? I haven't seen any changes to the (numerous) ill-balanced Summoner archetypes like the Synthesist, but everyone complains about it. It seems like the only complaints that result in FAQ changes are the ones that end up affecting Monks.


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Rerednaw wrote:

Since we have several fields of debate:

Melee divine, Healing divine, Support(buff) divine, Other(blaster?) divine.

How about folks throw out some builds and we can side-by-side comparison?

At least with regards to the healing and melee roles.

Sure, why not? I whipped up a quick Level 1 Oracle, using basic PFS build rules (20 point buy, 150GP)

Asmira, Chelaxian Oracle of Battle

STR 14
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 16
Fort: 2 Ref: 2 Will: 2
AC: 17 (19 w/Shield of Faith) Touch: 12 Flat: 17

HP: 10

Attacks: Greatsword +3 (2d6+2, 19-20)(Sun Metal adds +1d4 fire)

Curse: Tongues (Infernal)

Revelations: Skill at Arms, Weapon Mastery (Greatsword)

Orisons: Guidance, Resistance, Stabilize, Light

1st Level Spells: Cure Light Wounds, Shield of Faith, Sun Metal

Feats: Extra Revelation, Power Attack

Traits: Soul Drinker, Faith's Hunter

Skills:
Diplomacy +7, Intimidate +7, Knowledge (planes) +4, Knowledge (religion) +4

Gear: Greatsword, Scale Mail, Pathfinder's Kit, Warhammer, 26GP


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One of the main problems I've had with the Rise of the Runelords cardboard pawn set is that it leaves out so many minis that seem important to me. For example, The Annis Hags that are so important for the climax of the Hook Mountain Massacre. Annis Hags are from Bestiary 3, so neither of the Bestiary Box pawn sets have a figure I can use, and they aren't included in the Rise of the Runelords pawn set either. Has anyone found a good substitute?


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MrSin wrote:
Tholomyes wrote:
MrSin wrote:
Tholomyes wrote:
The closest I've gotten is taking Haunted whenever I don't want a curse, just because it's really the least character-defining curse.
Might want to look at the legalistic curse. Giving your word is pretty loose, and it may never come up depending on who you play with. Its always been my go to curse to be curseless. Downside is that most of its bonuses are high circumstantial, but that's not the worst thing in the world. Also makes a good candidate for your non beneficial curse for dual-cursed, imo.
Eh, I have had bad experiences. I haven't played with a DM like this in a while, but back in the day when effects like the legalistic curse showed up, some of my DMs took this as an excuse to be enormous pricks about it. With an effect as bad as Sickened, I'm not going to take it, even though I don't think the people I currently play with would be that bad about it.
Understandable. Oddly enough, the ones I play with are more than likely willing to allow haunted to kill a teammate. Being haunted is awesome thematically! and I'd rather be haunted to be honest, but... killing my teammates as a result is a bit much for more.

How would Haunted kill a teammate? It's only mechanical effect is increasing the time it takes to retrieve an object, and making dropped items move further away, IIRC.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
MrSin wrote:
TarkXT wrote:
MrSin wrote:
leo1925 wrote:
I saw here being mentioned that metal and battle oracles make better meleers than clerics and i ask, how?
Well, depends on your mysteries, because those determine what abilities you get. A big thing is how much more SAD the oracle can become and how MAD the cleric is. Also look at how many combat related revelations the oracle has access too and how good they are versus how good the inquisitions/domains the clerics get will be.

I like how the Cleric is said to be MAD.

If I'm building a battle cleric I assure you I'm dumping the hell out of charisma.

Channeling really is not that great of an ability for a guy whose job it is to smash faces.

I don't care much for channeling for a cleric myself to be honest. Best in combat use of channeling I've seen is an Assimar Life Oracle who uses swift action channels while smashing faces.

It's great for casting-centric Clerics, as it lets you heal the front line without getting up close and personal. It's also really useful in PFS, where (inevitably) someone does something stupid while they're more than 20 feet away from the Cleric.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
MrSin wrote:
leo1925 wrote:
I saw here being mentioned that metal and battle oracles make better meleers than clerics and i ask, how?
Well, depends on your mysteries, because those determine what abilities you get. A big thing is how much more SAD the oracle can become and how MAD the cleric is. Also look at how many combat related revelations the oracle has access too and how good they are versus how good the inquisitions/domains the clerics get will be.

It's not really that much more focused; Clerics only need Charisma for skills and Channeling; most Oracles don't even get Channeling, so it's a wash there. Wisdom is actually a better stat to have as a primary than Charisma, since it feeds Will saves. Recall that Clerics also have superior Fortitude saves, so really, Oracles have more need of Constitution (to make up the save difference) than Clerics do.

There are two types of Oracle (Lore and Nature, as I recall) who can partially ignore Dexterity, but doing so leaves them vulnerable either to Reflex Saves (Nature only replaces Dex for AC and CMD), or Combat Manuevers (Lore only replaces Dex for AC and Reflex Saves). So if we're talking about a melee combat Oracle vs a melee combat Cleric, the Oracle only has one more stat they can dump, and doing so could still screw them under certain circumstances.

Bear in mind also that Channeling (which only Clerics and Life Oracles can do) allows you to heal multiple people at once, for one measly standard action (non-provoking).


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Spray of Shooting Stars isn't really that great. 5ft radius is tiny, and 1d4/level is kind of terrible. It's like getting half of a Fireball once per day. At any given level, even the Druid spell list (which is famously terrible) offers better options (Call Flame, Flaming Sphere, etc.)


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Tangent101 wrote:
spectrevk wrote:
It's a medium-armor wearing class that has several mysteries that give it a highly limited armor spell that is *inferior* to Medium Armor, and remains behind the curve of what the player could buy with magic armor. Even the "good" Mysteries, like Battle, seem like the best they can do is make you into a slightly inferior Fighter who can heal a little...otherwise known as a bad Paladin.
Um... the Cleric is limited to medium or lighter armor as well. (I was rather surprised to learn this over Hero Labs, but the rules confirm it. You want heavy armor for the cleric, you have to take a Feat to wear it.)

Yes, I know. My point is that Oracles have "wasted" Revelations that essentially just give them armor that is inferior to what they can already wear.

At first level, the armor Revelation will give them a +4, compared to the +6 they could get from Scale Mail for 50g. The armore Revelation only lasts for 1 hour per level, while the Scale Mail is active for as long as you wear it. Then at 7th level, the armor Revelation "improves" to +6. By 7th level, you should have enough gold to easily enchant your Scale Mail to +1 or better, giving you superior AC plus other benefits. The revelation never really catches up to what regualar armor can already do for you.


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I really think you guys are underrating Channeling as an ability. I've gone through entire PFS scenarios healing the group primarily with Channels. I basically laughed off an undead ambush with a combination of Consecrate and Channeling. It's extra, free healing several times a day, most Oracles don't get it, and they really don't get anything to compensate for the loss.


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Scavion wrote:
spectrevk wrote:
Cult of Vorg wrote:

Many divine spells are situational, but when you do need them you need multiple castings, which is exactly when spontaneous casters shine over prepared.

I think revelations are generally much better than domains, and there's the extra revelations feat to get them all. The curse is pretty nifty too, and I love the feel of the class and the variety of the mysteries.

All that and 2 extra skill points, the experimental spellcaster for a word every level, and the human favored class or half-elf paragon exploits, and if anything I think the oracle obsoletes the cleric, barring situations where the delayed spell level really stings.

Better than Domains? Luck, Travel, Freedom (or is it Liberty?), I think even Magic is better overall than most Mysteries.

Come on. Don't compare the few best domains unless you compare it to the few best mysteries. Do note that most domains have pretty awful abilities in which mysteries(even the bad ones) have atleast one or two good options.

Best of all the Oracle isnt bogged down by a class "feature" like channel energy.

The Oracle actually HAS class features as opposed to the grand total of 5 that clerics get.

Fair enough. I still think that, on average, a cleric is objectively better than an Oracle. Better saves, none of their class abilities inhibit them, and the Oracle's primary benefit (spontaneous casting) is largely useless when paired with the Cleric/Oracle spell list.


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Cult of Vorg wrote:

Many divine spells are situational, but when you do need them you need multiple castings, which is exactly when spontaneous casters shine over prepared.

I think revelations are generally much better than domains, and there's the extra revelations feat to get them all. The curse is pretty nifty too, and I love the feel of the class and the variety of the mysteries.

All that and 2 extra skill points, the experimental spellcaster for a word every level, and the human favored class or half-elf paragon exploits, and if anything I think the oracle obsoletes the cleric, barring situations where the delayed spell level really stings.

Better than Domains? Luck, Travel, Freedom (or is it Liberty?), I think even Magic is better overall than most Mysteries.


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TheSideKick wrote:

its just you...

there are 3 aspects of combat for a cleric, healing, melee/ranged damage, and casting (support/damage/debuffing). now a cleric can do all 3 of these very well at the same time, but an oracle can do any one of these extremely well, while being good at the other 2.

example:

a life oracle is 100x better then a healing focused cleric

a metal or battle oracle is 100x better at physical combat then a cleric who focuses on physical combat

a dual cursed lore oracle is 100x better then a cleric at the support buffing/debuffing casting role.

but this doesn't mean that the oracle is better over all then the cleric, because the cleric can do all 3 at the same time just nowhere near as good at one aspect.

Being better than a cleric at physical combat isn't the same thing as being "good" at physical combat. The Cleric is "good enough" at combat, support, and debuffing that having one around is great. Outside of the Life Oracle, I don't think the class is good enough at any one area to be worthwhile in a party. I'd love to be proven wrong though, and I may try running one in PFS to see how it works out in play.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I like Oracles as a concept, but lets look at them mechanically:

They have a slower progression of spell levels than the Cleric, but this is balanced by them casting spontaneously, as is the case with Sorcerers and Wizards. The problem is, the Cleric spell list doesn't have a lot of spells that synergize well with spontaneous casting. Most of the spells that do are Cure/Inflict spells, which Clerics can also cast spontaneously, Oracles just kind of lose out here.

Clerics gain bonus spells from two domains. They get a bonus slot with which to use these spells, one at each spell level. Oracles gain bonus spells from one Mystery, and do not receive a bonus spell slot. They do receive more spells per day, however, so we could argue that this is a wash. However...

Clerics also gain special abilities from two Domains. Oracles only gain abilities from one Mystery. Yes, they also get a Curse, but that cancels itself out by being both a benefit and a detriment at once. At best, you could say Oracles get one and a half special abilities, versus the Cleric's two.

Clerics also get Channeling, which Oracles can only gain via the Life Mystery, and which comes out of their allotment Revelations.

So basically, Oracles get half as many bonus spells and one less class ability, in exchange for being able to cast without a Divine Focus. Making matters worse is that the actual design of many of the Mysteries are problematic. It's a medium-armor wearing class that has several mysteries that give it a highly limited armor spell that is *inferior* to Medium Armor, and remains behind the curve of what the player could buy with magic armor. Even the "good" Mysteries, like Battle, seem like the best they can do is make you into a slightly inferior Fighter who can heal a little...otherwise known as a bad Paladin.

Revelations like Dweller in the Darkness allow an 11th level Oracle to do something that a 7th level Wizard could do. Spray of Shooting Stars gives you the ability to cast an inferior Fireball in a 5-foot radius (i.e. unlikely to hit more than 1-2 creatures) only once per day until 5th level, when you can do it twice.

I'm earnestly curious about what the thought was behind the design of this class. The Life Oracle seems like an interesting experiment in healing/buff mechanics, but for something like a Time or Flame Oracle, what is their actual role? They have few if any support abilities, their offensive abilities are objectively inferior to those of an offensive caster, their defenses are inferior to a defensive class...so what are they?

EDIT: I almost forgot, Oracles also have two bad saves, versus the Cleric's two good saves.


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It's fun to imagine that Chelaxians, Galtans, and Taldans speak with slightly different accents, though :D


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

It's worth mentioning that while Taldane is the language referred to as "Common" in Garund, Osiriani is much more widely spoken there. Likewise, if you're heading to the Shackles, Sargava, or Mwangi, you'll want to learn Polyglot.

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