seto83's page

Is it possible to take the fast musket feat without being the musket master arctype?

Can you get the deed without the arctype?

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So musket master works with the double hackbutt ?

I read something in ult equip a bandolier that teleports ammo in your gun? And does musket master work with a double hackbutt?

What's the best ways to lower reload time on a two handed firearm? Of course rapid reload but I'm trying to lower enough to get multiple attacks a round any suggestions?

Is there a way to make an ranges attack of opportunity with a firearm?

seto83 wrote:

So she shouldn't fall because she put forth the most minamal effort possible instead of actually trying?

Remind me, your policy was "I'd never have put the paladin in that situation in the first place" (read: I would never present a 7-man party with an opponent that any single one of them couldn't solo) and "If the paladin attacked I would use a deus ex machina to make the paladin win", right?

Being Lawful Good is pretty easy when you change the rules of the world so that the most straightforward path is also safe and effective.

Cute way to take a small piece of a conversation and adjust it just enough to attempt to make your self sound right. Thats some good ole politics 101 stuff there.

Orthos wrote: Quote:
Why don't some of ya'll give examples of the standards you make them up hold in your world.
For starters, I don't force them into situations where their choices are "die or fall".

I repiled:I try my best to avoid those situations as well, but i didnt create this situation the op did. So whats paladin to do up hold her code and ethics or cower like a field mouse in front of a cobra. This paladin apparently likes option 2.

Clearly I was stating that I don't force paladins into fall or die situations. This became one of those sitauations after the rest of the party bailed, and if that happen I would expect a paladin in my world to put forth maxium effort to protect the villagers. Yes he might die, but theres always some dm fait to keep that from happening if you so choose. Theres could be so divine help form his god like a super buff that cause a stale mate in power and the vampire flee, or the vamp defeats paladin but lets him live with his failure huanting him. This are just examples. Plus that makes for some story.

seto83 wrote:

You answered your own question with the bolded parts, this paladin did neither of those things and only thought to save herself by not standing up to said...

Not quite - she failed to help the innocent, but she did try. There is a difference. Trying to stop them hurling themselves into a death wall because they're being controlled by a vampire (hate Dominate, HATE) is generally considered a good act. Throwing her life away in a few rounds so the Vampire could then kill everyone anyway with no restraint (not that she was much use, but she did try) is a pointless act, and would have failed by the Paladin's Code if you're reading failure as falling anyway (she neither protected the innocent nor punished the guilty).

If a Paladin could fall simply for not being good enough (read - High enough level) every undead would have a lock that could only be picked by a Paladin, then watch and laugh as they all due to not having put all there ranks into lockpick. And may there God help them if they fail an important diplomacy roll...

So she shouldn't fall because she put forth the most minamal effort possible instead of actually trying?

Dot to find later.

seto83 wrote:

Orthos wrote:

Quote:

Why don't some of ya'll give examples of the standards you make them up hold in your world.

For starters, I don't force them into situations where their choices are "die or fall".

I try my best to avoid those situations as well, but i didnt create this situation the op did. So whats paladin to do up hold her code and ethics or cower like a field mouse in front of a cobra. This paladin apparently likes option 2.

Perhaps you could have explained how a suicide attack on a vampire, rather than trying to save innocent lives, is more in line with the Paladin's Code?

The Paladin's Code wrote:

A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class features except proficiencies if she ever willingly commits an evil act.

Additionally, a paladin's code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.

I bolded the two most relevant sections. The simple truth is, the Paladin could not both punish the evil doer AND help those in need. She could get herself killed, allow the vamp to murder everyone and thus achieve nothing, or she could help the innocents while hoping to achieve the punishment game later.

Seriously, how many Good or Neutral Gods do you imagine are going to go, 'Really? You DIDN'T pointlessly hurl your life away and leave those innocents without a defender? You instead choose to be totally selfish and try and save there lives!? No more Paladin powers for you unless you hurl yourself off a building. At a draco-lich.' 'Cos if you can name one, I'm totally not using that as my deity when I try out Paladins.

You answered your own question with the bolded parts, this paladin did neither of those things and only thought to save herself by not standing up to said vampire.

To the op if the sami had a +2 keen katana what kind of equipment did said paladin have?

Quote:

Why don't some of ya'll give examples of the standards you make them up hold in your world.

For starters, I don't force them into situations where their choices are "die or fall".

I try my best to avoid those situations as well, but i didnt create this situation the op did. So whats paladin to do up hold her code and ethics or cower like a field mouse in front of a cobra. This paladin apparently likes option 2.

Seto, you seem to have two consistent problems.

1.) You don't know how copy and paste/multiquoting works.

2.) You think everyone who doesn't play exactly how you want them to play is doing it wrong.

Please try to fix both of these things.

Sincerely,

A forum poster

1. You are 100% right idk how to do that.

2. Op asked for opinions I gave mine with detail as to whay I feel that why. I could care less how ya'll decide when a plaldin should or shouldn't be punished in your world. I told you the standards I hold them to in mine, if people choose not to hold them to any what so ever in theirs thats fine as I dont play with them.

It is possible I'm to strict on them though I really doubt that. Why don't some of ya'll give examples of the standards you make them up hold in your world.

There should at the least be some diminished powers temporairly as their respect gods shown and possibly voice in some way their disdain for the disgusting acts. Also I agrre with Yosarian that their gods should demansd either atonement or the others or leave them. I personally feel this is to leaniant, but it seems if you properly punish anyone for their actions your a bully of a dm. This is a bad example and i apologize it advance for everyone this will piss off. In WWII the german soldiers either did horrible things or set back and watch horrible things happen to the prisoners in their camps. By these standards apparently thats no harm no foul because the were out voted by the superiours, and those men are prefectly good souls right?

Sorry maybe this is one of the things that really irk me. Then tri omega please enlighten me as to where you would draw a line?

seto83 wrote:

I'm not trying to say others are wrong for not holding their pallys to any tangable standard, just giving my opinion.

Well that is good, since no one is doing that.

Right cause a paladin that doesn't intervine to save innocent lives form evil and then sits by and lets the remaining villgers be burnt to death for nothing, while people are like I see no reason for him to fall. Your !00% right that paladin is being held to certin standards.

Hell whats next on this paladins list take advantage of a women against her will and then murder her so she can't rat him out, but I suppose you allow them to do that in your world too.

First of all if he would have acted promptly the villagers would have never been domanatied. It is a rough situation for a paladin but with the options in front of him there should be no real choice. I'm paladin this is what I what i sign up for when i took the oath. If it was my campaign I most likely wouldn't have killed the paladin had he tried maybe render him helpless and still kill some villagers so he can live with his failure and fuel to drive his vengence vs said vampire. The point is he made minamal if in effort besides pleding like a child that the big mean vampire please dont put the blood of these inocents on my soul since i care not to raise a finger to help them in their hour of need. Then simply voting not to burn them really? He should be stand in front of said fire screaming and brandishing a weapon to get his point across. I hope when they run into that vampire he rechants the tale of how he dispelled his domanite as each person was tossed on the pyre so they could enjoy being burnt to death for no reason the way it was meant to be enjoyed.

seto83 wrote:

TriOmegaZero wrote:

seto83 wrote:

Thats way I set standards high and feel that the class should be taken seriously or not played.

This is why I ban the base class and use the prestige paladin in my games. So players can prove they are one before they gain the powers of one.

I dont mind someone playing a pally form lvl one. I just demand it be played properly. To the op the paladin falls theres no way around that but do give him a chance at redemption and a stren lecture form the handmaidan of his deity, and he would only keep with that party if they were willing to admit their wrong doings and atone for them ie atonement spell. If that style of behavour continues he falls and is never to be a paladin again. This would for me extend to up coming aps as well until he can handle rp required.

Sorry, but you aren't demanding the paladin be played properly. You're demanding the paladin be played the way you want paladins to be played. If you're GMing, and your player can suck it up, then fine. Just don't go into another group's game and tell them that they're playing wrong.

I let players in my group know before hand what the standards are so its thier choice. I'm not trying to say others are wrong for not holding their pallys to any tangable standard, just giving my opinion.

seto83 wrote:

Thats way I set standards high and feel that the class should be taken seriously or not played.

This is why I ban the base class and use the prestige paladin in my games. So players can prove they are one before they gain the powers of one.

I dont mind someone playing a pally form lvl one. I just demand it be played properly. To the op the paladin falls theres no way around that but do give him a chance at redemption and a stren lecture form the handmaidan of his deity, and he would only keep with that party if they were willing to admit their wrong doings and atone for them ie atonement spell. If that style of behavour continues he falls and is never to be a paladin again. This would for me extend to up coming aps as well until he can handle rp required.

seto83 wrote:

They use that same inant knowledge we all do at the table. Hey theres someone in moon and star covered robes and a pointy hat he must me a wizard lol.

So all I need is a glowing weapon, heavy armor, and a holy symbol, and I can walk into town and gain massive social benefits because everyone will assume I'm a paladin and therefore must be good, when in reality I am an Evil Oracle? And all my rogue needs is a pointy hat and everyone will cower before her arcane might?

johnlocke90 wrote:

Vampire's can't.

Congratulations, you've proven you're not a vampire. Woohoo.

It was a joking but i did once play a monk that traveled looking like a wizard intentionally. Rush the caster fob wtf? It was awesome.

They use that same inant knowledge we all do at the table. Hey theres someone in moon and star covered robes and a pointy hat he must me a wizard lol.

More importantly, after having stated several times now how you believe paladins should act, and to what standards they should be held, what are you adding to the ongoing conversation. You (and I) and others believe the paladin should fall, maybe for different reasons, but we all get that... why do you continually try and hammer home the point? You arent bringing anything else to the conversation or helping the OP any more than you were 4? 5? Posts ago?

Im NOT telling you to abandon thread, but please for the sake of the discussion move on from your original point.

I'm sorry if I upset you thats not my intention. I just grow tried of people wnating to play paladin for thier abilties, but not wanting to actully playa paladin if you understand what I'm saying. I have played paladins since 2nd ed trough alot of changes to the class and its powers, but the one thing that should stay constant his selfless devoution to what is good and just seems to be taking a huge hit lately. Thats way I set standards high and feel that the class should be taken seriously or not played.

If your standard for the class requires the player to die in order to avoid falling, your standard might be a bit too high. I like playing characters more when they survive longer than one session.

I reward all players at my table for proper role playing, and they understand its a sliding scale if you choose something difficult like paladin vs something less difficult ie fighter then the rewards are slightly better.

If your standard for the class requires the player to die in order to avoid falling, your standard might be a bit too high. I like playing characters more when they survive longer than one session.

I wouldnt expect them to just kill themseleves no, but i feel in a postion like this paladin was he theres no excuss for not putting all on the line.

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Paladin should be more pious then any cleric, braver then any fighter, an more honor bound then any monk that's the standard I hold them to.

I want my Palladian to show the level of devotion that should be excepted by anyone who willing chooses paladinhood. Not defending innocent peasants it's that lvl of devotion.

And for all of you that are pouting saying I wouldnt play with that dm again, wtf really what era of rpgs did you cut your teeth on. Anyone remeber 2nd edition what your a 20th level pc who a guy has built form 1st level and is highly attached too? Good save or die and no coming back lol that was fun and i dont see how thats anyless fair then a powerful monster.

I find term lawful stupid so overused on this board as an excuss for a paladin not be a paladin. The villgers werent dominated until the pallly refused to act, so his own cowardice lead to the fate of these villagers. If you arent willing to be lawful stupid ( heroic and selfless )then pick another class paladin isnt for you.

Yeah with 7 overgeared pcs lvls tween 4-5 plus two npcs dear lord they should have just smacked that vamp lol.

Guided replaces str

Lol and lvl four paladin with a little luck can take a cr eight vamp that's what the are built to do, and if the samurai has a + 2 keen katana I could only imagine what the pally has.

No I just feel if someone choose to take upon the mantal of paladinhood they should understand what that means, and this player clearly does not. Therefore until he shows this he would no longer have that option in my world.

Long thread, only read the first page, but my two cents on the OP's problem:

The Paladin gets a pass on the "no better option" clause that alignment should be played with. Between futile suicide by vampire and futile suicide by PVPing with a post-APG spike damage specialist the only productive thing he could do was wait and report his companions' perfidy to the legitimate authorities at a later date. A date that hasn't been reached yet.

The Samurai gets a pass because the player had to leave and shouldn't have his character ruined for not knowing the person he was leaving it in the hands of was a coward.

Everyone else is in trouble. That may mean the Paladin player is rolling up a replacement, but it shouldn't be because he's an ex-paladin but because some of his companions moved into an alignment he's prohibited from adventuring with. Unless you want to run an evil campaign, though, the murderers should be NPCs for falling into a general PC prohibited alignment.

Really? Its a paladins duty to stay the face of evil and protect the weak and defenseless. If that means you make the ultimate sacriface then so be it. If you rp a paladin properly he would never stand for this, and certainly not cooking villagers. You should punish him ooc ie he isnt ever allowed to play a paladin until he understands them. Theres is no free pass for no better option bs.

minoritarian wrote:

You'd have to ask your GM if you can trade out your spell-like ability for a +2 to strength or charisma though. Technically you're meant to roll a d100 and can come up with crap like "can ripen fruit with a touch" or "can tell if someone is pregnant by standing within 10' of them"

You call instant fruit-ripening "crap"? Do you know how much money you could make with that? The second your tree produces the beginnings of apples, you start fondling and have an off-season harvest, selling the fruit for higher than normal prices (after all, who's competing when you're the only one with ripe apples?) and start over. Find enough people with the same ability and run an orchard together. You'll be rich!

;)

(slow clap) Well played sir.

How did apl 6 party best a graveknight?

First any paladin worth her salt would have fought the vampire regardless of self its what they do. I have played many pallys in my day and all of them were ready to and so did lay thier life down to save others. Second if my palladin somehow managed not to get killed by said vampire, she would smite the first party member that suggest burn the villgers because clearly that person just turned very dark.

Deux its case by case with 3.5 if there is something I like all I have do is ask and he will rule on it.

I'm playing a champoin of Irori in an up coming champign, would like some help with feats. Here is what I have so far.
Aasmier peri blood give up spell like abilites for a +2 to str.
stats
str 19
dex 17
con 15
int 14
wis 18
cha 10

Frist two levels paladin of vengence, then four monk, the rest COI.

feats 1st lvl-power attack
2nd n/a
3rd lvl ie 1st monk lvl imp unarmed, stunning fist, serenity( old 3.5 feat my dm is allowing lets me use wis inleu of cha for paladin abilites), and dragon style.
4th lvl Imp grapple
5th lvl dragon ferocity
6th lvl n/a
7th lvl Imp intitaive
Beyond this I'm become lost. What are some suggest on good feats to take.

All orcs are raiding Lastwall currently. :)

What is that in?

So we rolled stats (4d6 drop the lowest. I ended up having 17,16,15,15,13,& 8. Any suggesst on stat placement, race,etc. Basicly help me map out the first few lvls of this guy please.

I wont have channel because of the oath of vengence ie: the crazy amouts of smites lol. Prob be 2 pally for divine grace and three monk like Black Powder suggested then ten champion. Smite everything that walk because if its not evil or choatic or both I prob shouldn't be killing it anyhow lol.

I'm going t take oath of vengence so i can ditch loh for more smites also. Mostly a damage dealer with great saves and alot of flavor.

Wow Thats awesome sauce. Any other ideas as far as feats, traits, or items?

Yeah it looks sweet and with being able to ditch loh for smites also i can prob get off quite a few of those a day.

Just looked it up if he will allow those to stack with my monk lvls for una dam and fob yeah.

Havent read about that before is it any good.

Whats it called?

Go Paladin of vengece for extra smiting drop twf sword board idea get one really big reach weapon and some wands to patch everyone up after you kill things. Feats power attack, combat reflexs, stand still, ans extra loh for more smiting. Kill it quick there wont be much damage to heal :).

My dm is home brewing an asectic knight type for monks in pathfinder. Basicly all it will do is allow ur monk and paladin lvl to combined for effects of lay on hands, smiting, fob,and unarmed damage. With that in mind i'm thiking of playing one to keep it from being to mad i plan to take serinity feat which replaces cha for wis for paladin abilites. As it stands right now I'm thinking 2 lvl paladin of vengece and the rest monk( material artist, Master of many styles). Any thoughts or suggestions as far as other feats, traits, or items I should try to aqquire, or thoughts on the hybrid charcther in general?

Thank you so much.