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Interested, Ravenloft is a fun setting. I agree non-humans are gonna have a hard way to go tiflings, Dragonborn and even half orcs are likely to be burned by angry mobs. I am unsure how the GM is handling it, but guys I would avoid dark magic, necromancy blood, anything that messes with folks minds and the warlock. Those of us who know ravenloft know why :)
But he can summon freaking eagles.
what it does is show the rules are windy inconsistent. It tires to both be meat points and not meat points. And n what version of the game you came in. I honestly never read the PF HP section, even though to me it makes it clear its not pure meat points.
I know 2e it was not pure meat, 3e it was not pure meat. I think we need to admit HP's are what they are, a highly and wacky way to take if your PC is still alive. Nothing more.
If someone takes 704 arrows to his head and is still walking, you have passed the whole concept of meat points and death.
That kinda proves my point. If you fall into lava, its not gonna be take xd6, is damn..roll a new char. HP's are not damage, they are an abstraction to see how long your pc can keep going.
If you guys want a hit/damage/wound/ meat point system. HP is not and will never be that system.
The way have always explained HP's to new folks is its an abstraction about avoiding taken a deadly blow. A "hit" is not being stabbed or really being sliced into every time. Its "almost" or maybe a glancing blow or a graze, but nothing like being sliced with a sword or stabbed. When you take 1d8+4 from an Orc, you are not slicing that orc, you are wearing him down and when you get to (0) he has made a mistake, you you slipped though his defenses or whatever and nailed him.
HP's are a simple system but fail pretty hard when you try to make each hit mean its a stab or a slice that cuts into you.
I did not say anyone was. I said the whole thing was crazy. At my Flags the about half the 5e group is half the PF group. Folks can and do play many systems.
Agreed, the whole edition wars stuff is crazy. I like systems, I have yet to see any system that does not have at lest one neat idea.
HP in basic D&D were also not wounds. They were luck and avoiding a wound. This is what the PHB says about HP's
Hit points represent a combination of physical and mental durability. the will to live, and luck. Creatures with more hit points are more difficult to kill. Those with fewer hit points are more fragile.
So no, hits are not wounds. You also regain all your HP after an 8 hour rest, also putting lie to the idea that each hit is a wound. As for healing, its a left over name. Minor spells can gain HP but not do things like a "true" healing spell and remove poison or fix limbs
I mean look at video games. HP is HP and not really you getting hurt, nore is healing fixing wounds. Its just a way to show your health.
I know 5e is not your thing, but have you seen the lingering wound option from the 5e DMG? I think the biggest issue some folks are having is they are thinking HP are wounds and that is not the case in 5e.
Lucas Yew wrote:
I see that someone has read my very mind on this mess! :)
Nice to see someone who agrees.
HP's in 5e are not wounds, they are luck more than anything. You avoid a big it, you take bruises, you have some scratches or minor wounds. 2nd wind is you "walking it off" or working though it.Also recall in 5e you "heal" 100% after a long rest.
You guys recall star wars revised vitality/wound system?
YMMV, I have seen some groups have cake walks, even a group I ran in RL Savage tide with zero casters dominate it. And I have seen groups who were not optimizes get TPKed left and right. Not because of bad decision, not because of "Bad" builds, but because they made non optimized build choices.
I never said they were boring. Paizo's Ap are hands down anything but boring. What I said is the perception they have is they are often grindy, pron to TPK's and almost demand system mastery and optimization.
I would say, as I have ran three of these, that the last is for sure true. Its geared toward optimization IMO. Groups who do not do this have a much harder time.
The one complaint seen elsewhere, over and over is the AP's are too grindy, to TPK happy and take far to much system mastery to play for most people.
I just point it out as people have repeated and repeated, Oh even a wizard is as good as fighter in melee now. T be honest, I have no clue why the very idea of a bound accuracy concept is so off putting to folks. Almost every non-D&D game I have played has this concept built in some way.
I have not been active, I burned out rather fast and rather hard on 3.x. I had to close my pbp's which one I had run for years here and get my head cleared by playing something, anything else for a while.
I am in a better place now, so I am sticking my head back into it. I agree on the flavor thing. I would really like to see classes more generic and give flavor examples.
To each his own, I hated the play test version but ended up liking the finished game. I may turn out to change my mind with massive play, after all it took 13 years or so to burn out on 3.x.
I think wotc got skittish and went a bit farther from radical then they needed to with 5e. 4E went to far, 5e may not go far enough.I do agree with you martial characters should have options, the idea of maneuvers was a good one to use without going nuts with high numbers. I still think the idea behind bound accuracy could be good for PF2, but I do not wanna see it taken whole hog from 5e.
I think Paizo should look at it, what it does right, what it does wrong and find their own way to do it. You guys recall all the skill changes from the PF Alpha to the finished books? The first system was pure up Star wars saga skill system. That changed.
The like/dislike of bounded accuracy comes down to if you think high levels should be demi-gods and near unable to be harmed by mere mortals or not.
The ones who think they should be demi-gods are over looking that bounded accuracy in PF does not need to be just like 5e, its just used as an example of the fact you can indeed fix the math and not allow 47 mods to stack.
For myself, I have always hated the "look I am now a GOD!" of high end 3e.
For the shear hell of it. I am gonna roll and see what I get.
4d6 ⇒ (4, 2, 1, 2) = 9 = 8
Edit: Other than that 8, not bad at all.
Opps did not see the 3d6 there
Create Mr. Pitt wrote:
Technically so was Pathfinder, and 3e and 3.5. To me it sounds like issues with the underlaying system I feel need fixed.
Saves either you are really good at it or you suck so bad you are about bound to auto fail it. And the divide of Good vs suck is mighty wide
Skill DC is kinda the same issue, its more an issue of the system not keeping up with the DC's. You either are god at a skill or ya hope to gods you roll high as freak.
Ok, beside the bounded accuracy good/ no its the work of arch devils argument. I am gonna go ahead and put down what I feel PF 2e should go in. Recall guys this is just my opinions based off my own taste.
1: Something akin to Bounded accuracy. I want the mods cleared out, reduced and the math capped. It need not be done in the same way as 5e, but the lack of balance, rocket tag rules and the sheer amount of work at high end and with optimization drove me away from 3.x at last.
2:Spells need heavily redressed and the caster/non caster divide closed. Caster should not rule the game
3: BAB needs fixated and the ever worse extra attacks need dead. If you grant an extra attack its just that. Not a way worse attack
4:No more magic xmass tree/no need to have magic items. Magic should be cool and fun, not required.
5: I want healing for every class. You should not have to have a healer. If you want to call HP's vitality to make it not magical, cool.
6: Fewer classes but more customizable/ robust classes. Bake in the archtype concert and allow for broader classes
7: Please for the love of all that is holy, if you can not kill the evil that is Vancian casting. At the very lest add another non-vancian spellcaster class option.
8: Feats should be cool, not a +2 to this or a +1 to river dancing. They also should not be traps and all should be about the same power level
9: Some of those "feats" should be basic class abilities
10: Fix freaking saves
11: Ditto wth sklls DC and make fewer, but broader skills
So far we have
I tend to like all kinds of systems and do not play just a single system. I do think PF needs simplified and the bloat handled and to jettison much of the 3.x baggage that simply does not work as it should.
1: I misunderstood what he was saying, or at lest how you guys took it. I took it to mean the power level vastly shifted, not that orcs were always a threat at high level.
2: I ran 2e for 8 years man, do not presume to know what I know about the system. ( Edit: not being snearky, although it did come off that way.Sorry about that)
3:Most folks happily switched, but not all of them did and a good part did not stay. Among those being "super heroes in D&D" was a common and frankly fair claim. Many others where chased off by the growing complexity of the system or/and its many issues and flaws.
Far point. I misunderstood then. For myself I like the fact orcs are always a threat. Who knows if this will work out long term but as of now, I like it. I also do not miss rocket tag or the half page of mods on x player for this fight.
Levels still matter, often a great deal. But it lowers the range, you are no longer demi-gods walking among mere mortals. You are simply tough, very skilled mortals.
Bill Dunn wrote:
I had this kinda argument with someone last night. "oh a wizard gets the same modifier? well archers now suck as everyone can be a great archer". People are not looking at the whole, only parts and without any understanding.
I guess it should be noted I really, really like bounded accuracy.
Rolling starting cash here. starting gold: 5d4 ⇒ (4, 4, 4, 3, 1) = 16
Ok here is what I have. I will post it here as there is no need to make an avatar unless I get into the game. I will also post his history, which I broke up into two parts.
Background Part I :Earning his name:
When Maragak was a young boy, he was fascinated by the Red hawks that soared along the peaks of his homelands. The way they glimmers and flew among the snowy peaks, he shin of those fine, bright feathers. Maragak was but a youngling and he decided one would be his. Yes, a young chick from a nest would make a fine hunting companion. Many of the others ridiculed him, after all how could one catch such a fast beast.
Maragak had seen the nest however, jutting off the side of the mountain upon a snowwood tree whose roots barely kept its oversized trunk anchored to the maintained. It would be dangerous, but it would be a challenge and Maragak would have his Hawk! Maragak found the nest and waited in the snow and wind most of the day for the Red Hawk to leave its nest of chicks. When it did he made his move, swiftly climbing the shaking tree toward the chipping nest of his goal.
Red hawks however, do not leave a nest ungraded for long and the mother retuned as Maragak was making off with his prize. With a fury she descended on the young goliath and in his hast to keep his eyes and not plummet from the tree, Maragak dropped his prize. His powerful lead from the tree uprooted it and sent the tree and the nest off the Cliffside. The Red Hawks fury almost cost Maragak his eyes and in a panic he killed the hawk with a stone as it ripped into him.
He returned to the camp defeated, bleeding and with nothing but a handful of red feathers to show for his ambition. The Elders dubbed him Redfeather for both is ambition and his failure. It is a name that stayed with him, a name that drove him to do better.
Background Part II: Finding his path:
Maragak Redfeather Athunileanar, grew to young adult hood among the misty mountaintops of the Nether Mountains. Often well out of the range of the orcs and hobgoblins who made the lower elevations their homes. His clan hunted and ranged the uppermost peaks, never staying one place long but often using many of the same areas.
Even the upper reaches of the Nether Mountains are without ruins, as the history of the land is a long one. One such ruin, a broken, a half buried structure served the Athunileana clan well as a camp. It held a deep well, some defensible rooms and made fine shelter when in the area. And it was here his clan were when the outsiders came looking for a forgotten relic.
The Athunileana, like all goliaths were fierce fighters, but the attackers came at night, in numbers and with the command of powerful magic. Redfeather was left for dead in the snow, tossed across the peaks by powerful air magic. He crawled on broken limbs back to the ruins, to the shattered and defiled remains of his now dead clan. His hate burning, the one thing that may have forced him to live was that burning hate that need for revenge. It was then, surrounded by his dead, broken and crying for vengeance he heard the pearl of thunder cross the ruins three time.
Broken and with a fever he covered his dead with stones and fled deep into the ruins and waited to die. But Redfeather’s hate was strong and he slept with a fever as his body healed. He slept and he dreamed and in his dreams the lord of three thunders came to him. In his dreams he saw his path, he saw the need for vengeance, the dead that cried out for it.
When Redfeather walked away from the ruins and down the Nether peaks that spring, he did not walk down just as a lone survivor of a dead clan. He did not walk as just a recovered ruin. No, he walked down as a vessel of Vengeance, a reforged tool for Retribution, a champion of the Doombringer. A Paladin of Hoar.
Maragak "Redfeather" Athunileanar
Stone’s Endurance:You can focus yourself to occasionally shrug off injury. When you take damage,you can use your reaction to roll a d12. Add your Constitution modifier to the number rolled,and reduce the damage by that total. After you use this trait, you can’t use it again until you finish a short or long rest.
Powerful Build: You count as one size larger when determining your carrying capacity and the weight you can push, drag, or lift.
Mountain Born: You’re acclimated to high altitude,including elevations above 20,000 feet. You’re also naturally adapted to cold climates, as described in chapter 5 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide.
Wanderer:You have an excellent memory for maps and geography,and you can always recall the general layout of terrain,settlements, and other features around you. In addition,you can find food and fresh water for yourself and up to five other people each day, provided that the land offers berries, small game, water, and so forth.
Divine sense:(3 uses)Until the end of your next turn, you know the location of any celestial, fiend,or undead within 60 feet of you that is not behind total cover.you know the type (celestial,fiend,or undead) of any being whose presence you sense, but not its identity.Within the same radius, you also detect the presence of any place or object that has been consecrated or desecrated, as with the hallow spell.You can use this feature a number of times equal to 1 + your Charisma modifier. When you finish a long rest,you regain all expended uses.
Lay on Hands:(5 hp)Your blessed touch can heal wounds. You have a pool of healing power that replenishes when you take a long rest. With that pool, you can restore a total number of hit points equal to your paladin level x 5. As an action, you can touch a creature and draw power from the pool to restore a number of hit points to that creature, up to the maximum amount remaining in your pool.
Alternatively, you can expend 5 hit points from your pool of healing to cure the target of one disease or neutralize one poison affecting it. You can cure multiple diseases and neutralize multiple poisons with a single use of Lay on Hands, expending hit points separately for each one.
This feature has no effect on undead and constructs.
160 starting wealth
-75gp chain mail
-15GP 3 hand ax
-10GP Explorer's pack
-05GP Holy symbol
-02sp Mess kit
-05sp Tinder box
-05gp Hunting trap
-04gp 2 sets travelers cloths
coin: 15 gp, 3 sp
I was simply checking. I was thinking of a paladin of Hoar, I do not think it requires any conversion.