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The adventure (Flood Season) is mostly there to play some hooks into the player's hands about the cages. Very loose connections, the PCs could act upon. I used (find it at rpgenius.com) Skaven as a source of information to the players by having them find a diary describing his involvement. That helped to place the whole Ebon Triad thing into the storyline.

I just finished Flood Season. Next Wed (hopefully) I will start the Demonskar Ball with my players.

Skaven's diary is like a Rosetta stone for your group if they fail to capture/question Skaven or Triel. I took the diary from rpgenius and slightly altered it to make Skaven responsible for the Filth Fever from 7 years ago (testing something he stole from Bluecrater). I used a "handwriting" font to make it more realistic. My group are now investigating Bluecrater records to find out about Skaven's history in Cauldron.

At the same time, I removed Grehlia completely and put Fetor as Skaven's contact in the Cagewrights. This foreshadows the Soul Pillars.

I also followed the DelvesDeep suggestions and included the Skylar love plot. This makes the party more involved in the tax riot.

This thread also gave me a connection between Triel and Andimarchus. The pic of the ravings was on rpgenius. I didn't use the Lathenmire angle, though it is an interesting one.

My group failed to gather any of the pieces of the cages from the workroom, as they didn't find them to be of interest.

With all the "SRD-only" discussions going around, could the contestants use a tool like PCGen to stat out the villain?

Are spellcasters supposed to list memorized spells separate from their full spellbooks? I am assuming this wouldn't count toward any word-counts, otherwise you are penalizing spellcaster designs.

I would agree with Boomer that a tactics section would be nice. Would this be part of the general description, or would it be given its own section and word-count?

Does the list of magic items that the villain has get included in the stat block, or does it become part of the description area?

And finally...

Gonzo, a term I needed to look up, might be too strong a word.

It is truly sad that Muppet Show references aren't commonly known anymore. Anyone that watched it knows exactly what it means when something is Gonzo (i.e. WAY out there).

My top 5 in no particular order:

Land of the Stained Peaks
Vraimare
Iskandria
Yithnai
Malar

I have found that while many people consider "good" nations to be boring, they can be interesting if there is a conflict on what is considered the "best" good. Many good deities can have conflicts between their churches if they believe they are the best of the Good choices.

The fight between Good and Evil is very black and white obvious. The conflict between Neutral Good, Lawful Good, Chaotic Good and Lawful Neutral is a roleplaying one, based on character moral decisions. You almost need to have 2-3 countries described in order to set up the conflict properly. Given that the contest was for one country, most people went for the most interesting single entry.

I personally think there is more subtlety here than people see at first glance (and first glance is what the editors are concentrating on due to their time restrictions and obviously other job duties).

1) A hobgoblin is normally LE. Here, a nation of hobgoblins is at LN. They are a traditional people, dealing with the loss of their god. The alignment change is subtle, yet important.

2) The essence stones make great openings for role-playing and adventures. A multi-classed party of clerics of Kunra would work fine. And who is to say that Kunra is the only god available? It is just the one most closely tied to the country. There are players that like to challenge themselves and take a "less than perfect" class to have an interesting role-playing experience.

3) While this might not be a first choice for some PCs as a country of origin, it might work well as a country to travel to. From a role-playing standpoint, a set of PC missionaries from another country trying to convert the natives to their religion would create excellent opportunities. And given the history of the people, maybe they would be willing to change. (Again, see alignment)

4) This country is one of the few that actually hints at more than just itself. The affect that a country has on its fellows creates good large scale politics and back story.

I'm not saying that this is the best entry out there, but it does have some good merits. At the same time, when I read it, it did read like a Gazetteer entry, which is what the editors said they were looking for, and I thought all the entries would be. Based on their comments, I am guessing that the editors are judging based on flashy, over-the-top type of material, not subtle role-playing opportunities.

I was thinking about moving the “Test” all the way back to after “Strike on Shatterhorn”.

I like this idea, but with slight modifications:

Demonskar Legacy
Seige of Redgorge (see DelvesDeep's alternate)
Secret of the Soul Pillars
Lords of Oblivion
Foundation of Flame
Thirteen Cages
Test of the Smoking Eye (replaces Shatterhorn)
Asylum

The flow through this is more clean, with all of the planar stuff happening at the end. The Seige would (hopefully) fill in the levels missed. The ending of Thirteen Cages could directly lead into Test by having an Outsider come to them directly, with the reasoning that they have stopped the Tree.

My group is finishing Flood Season, and will be attending DelvesDeep's Demonskar Ball. I recommend looking into it at www.therpgenious.com along with other comments on the board here.

My wife, like yours, has been an pillar and very supportive while I burn the midnight oil getting things just right. Also, my bud Joe, who told me about the competition in the first place deserves a public thanks. i wouldn't be here without his, "Hey, why don't you try it". Thank god for our friends :)

WC

My wife has been quite patient too, as I (virtually) read over the shoulder of WC. But she has seen the light (and joy) in my eyes and knows that I am happier for being involved.

I am so glad that I passed on the word about this contest. Madness and passion should be shared.

*grin*

After reviewing his spells, I have decided to replace Phantasmal Killer with Dimension Door. This will allow for the "cool" effect of having him escape from the room that has been blocked by adventurers right in front of their eyes. He will escape to the harpoon spider room. He will then use Arcane Eye (which he either cast when he heard the group outside his door or send it through the spider caves looking for the group), watching their approach. I will save the invisibility/slippers/chain escape for during the Harpoon spider fight. Possibly, with enough time, he might be able to grab his spellbook and the wand on his way to the beach.

Well, things did not go quite as planned (though they went cool enough). The group had trouble with Skaven's door (due to the Arcane Lock) and didn't want to blow their knock spell. So they ended up fighting spiders and ettercaps. After killing the 2 ettercaps, they did a Locate Object on the wands. This led them back to Skaven's room. So they tried the door again. Skaven heard them in the hall outside his door and wasn't surprised when they opened the door by using their one Knock spell. The bard then took over and started bluffing. He said he was an emissary from the beholder, and that he was there to verify that things were OK. Skaven started by saying that he thought they had completed everything. When the group asked for the wands, Skaven said that the wands were a private venture and not part of the agreement. Skaven noticed the armor being worn by one of fighters was marked by St Cuthbert and became suspicious. He dimension doored away. The group searched his room and found the diary (the great one from RPGenius). Meanwhile, Skaven cast invisibility and snuck back. After avoiding the Sepia Snake Sigil on the door to the bedroom, the group found they couldn't open the 2nd Arcane locked door. By this time, the 10 minutes on the original Knock spell had run out. So Skaven snuck up and closed the door (with Arcane Lock) to his room, effectively trapping the group inside. This is where we ended the session.

I'm now trying to figure out what he will do next. He obviously wants to get his stuff, and now knows that the group has killed many spiders and ettercaps. He still has the Harpoon Spider though. I don't think the creature can get through the doors so he can't really leave his cave easily. The last ettercap could help though. At the same time, I don't want a TPK. Comments and ideas?

His best route of escape is to run out to the beach and use the slippers of spiderclimb to go up the rope and out the tunnel.

I am expecting my group to encounter Skaven tonight. They have killed Triel and retreated for a while to recover. Skaven doesn't want to leave due to his research of the ruins and his guess that getting the wands from Triel will satisfy them, and that Triel was killed because of her need to get revenge upon Cauldron. He is very confident in his abilities and those of his spider allies.

After reviewing his spells, I have decided to replace Phantasmal Killer with Dimension Door. This will allow for the "cool" effect of having him escape from the room that has been blocked by adventurers right in front of their eyes. He will escape to the harpoon spider room. He will then use Arcane Eye (which he either cast when he heard the group outside his door or send it through the spider caves looking for the group), watching their approach. I will save the invisibility/slippers/chain escape for during the Harpoon spider fight. Possibly, with enough time, he might be able to grab his spellbook and the wand on his way to the beach.

A friend of mine (who did enter) expressed himself a little differently. "Man, I could do all the other things easily. It's just getting past the magical item stage that will be hard." Everyone has different strengths. (And yes, I am hoping he makes it to the 32)

As a curiousity, would you be willing to let us know how many submissions there actually were? I understand you might want to hold back that information until the general announcements for the top 32, and if you say as such, would be completely satisfied to wait until then.

I just finished the first chapter of SCAP this last saturday as well after about the same amount of time spend working on it. I also was very concerned with much of these same issues.

Here is what I did:
- Had the final slave released lead them to Kaz's room and tell them he over heard some guards talking about a hidden room that he stored his treasure in (and they then spent some time searching and found it).

In my campaign, the group went from room to room and cleaned out Jzadirune. The halfling rogue in the group was a searching god, so they found the hidden rooms upstairs with ease.

Heading down to the Malachite Fortress, they killed Kazmojen and retreated. The hobgoblins, realizing their leader was dead, headed back into the Underdark. But before they went, the hobgoblins tried to sneak into Kazmojen's storage room for some treasure. Upon getting attacked by the guardian in there, one of them died in the doorway, while the rest ran for their lives. This kept the door open, making it easier for the group to find. I balanced this with the hobgoblins getting a rust monster and taking the gems from the statue.

They had loads of treasure by the end, and then spent it on a house. They are now in debt still for the house, and the costs for the lessons for the Demonskar Ball have piled up, along with the costumes. I'm at the point now where I am not sure if they will take the money from the Lucky Monkey because it was stolen from the patrons and the owner. (I have a good set of roleplayers that are actually moral in their actions)

Money should be tight. It gives them incentive to adventure. If they fail to gear up (as mine did), they should be held accountable for it. (I introduced a new NPC when one of the PCs left, and he brought a +1 sword with him, allowing them to defeat Tongue-Eater. The party learned their lesson though, as they couldn't easily hurt it until the NPC got into the fray)

One alternative I used was to have the characters start at 2nd level. This meant the characters didn't have the same frustrations during the first adventure (1 bad roll and you die). By the time they finished Jzadirune and the Malachite Fortress, they were 4th level, which was perfect for skipping Drakthar's Way.

Or you could have some minor adventure take them from 1st to 2nd level, introduce the city to them and then start the SCAP.

I love the way this sounds, a large-scale siege with a couple sets of invaders involved, an attempt to complete Nabthatoron's obligation, and the (probable) alienation of the group from the growing powers in Cauldron.

Reading through, I couldn't quite make sense though of the Terseon angle when it comes to timing. Based on the original adventure, Alek is dealt with by the demons, and the groups is whisked away to the Smoking Eye adventure. Once that is complete, this new section has the group return to deal with this siege. How did the timing of this work out? Does time pass faster in Occipitus than in the Prime? If so, won't the players take advantage of this to heal/craft items? Is this a bad thing? (It would allow a number of the following adventures to be very fast paced, as the group can recover completely in a day of "Prime Time"). I thought Terseon was preparing to march onto Redgorge and would be there quickly. If time does not pass faster, then how can the Smoking Eye be completed so quickly?

I also like the consideration of using Kaurophon during the siege to "rescue" characters, thereby befriending them. But this reverses the timing of the siege vs the Smoking Eye.

How has everyone that has run this already dealt with the disparity?

At five different times during the battle, he had my party's fighter at -9hp. The cleric used up a bunch of charges on his cure wand. :D

Yes, the biggest fighter in my group did the jack-in-the-box healing when he was reduced to -1 hit points and had Lesser Vigour (embue target with Fast Healing 1 for <caster-level> rounds) placed upon him by the cleric. This healed him to 0 points, when he would attack, which caused him to hurt himself back to -1, and then next round he healed to 0, ...

Kazmojen was quite annoyed the first time he got back up, but by the second time, he was distracted by the Spiritual Hammer from the same cleric.

Made for an amusing time during the fight.

Last night, we started the Flood Festival, and I altered the rules for the drinking contest to make it more interesting. I didn't like the rules in the HC, as they don't allow personalities to shine. I also didn't like that one missed roll means you are out.

First off, I set up 64 "slots" and randomly assigned the PCs that signed up into them. Then I allocated a few "named" NPCs into other slots (Tyro Amberhelm, Maavu, Zachary Aslaxin, Cora Lathenmire, Dalam Bandershield from the DelveDeep's Demonskar Ball and Jil). I then included a few "personalities" (a kid's champion, which is a kid that has been backed by his friends in his first drinking contest, an Alleybasher, some merchants, a few caravan guards, and a few town guard). The rest are "townspeople" of Cauldron. The various guards have a +4 save, the townspeople are +0 or +1, and the kid's champion is +2. The others are as per their NPC listings.

Each night is at a different venue, with the final 2 matches being agreed upon by the participants. Currently, these are:

Day 1 - Tipped Tankard - DC 5 start - 64 weeded down to 32
Day 2 - Drunken Morkoth - DC 7 start - 32 weeded down to 16
Day 3 - Coy Nixie - DC 9 start - 16 weeded down to 8
Day 4 - Tipped Tankard - DC 11 start - 8 weeded down to 4
Day 5 - Cusp of Sunrise (held outside) - DC 13 start - 4 weeded down to 2
Day 6 - Opponent's choice - DC 15 start - 2 weeded down to 1
Day 7 - Winner's choice - drink of choice - opponent is Vhalantru

(Tipped Tankard came up with this contest, so that is why they are listed twice) The DCs increase as stronger and stronger drinks are served at each establishment. Tipped Tankard starts with cheap ale, while the Cusp serves elven wines.

Taking a drink means making a fortitude save. The DCs increase by 1 for each drink. There are 4 stages of drunkenness (Sober, Tipsy, Drunk, Queasy, Puke/Pass out). Any failure of a fortitude save moves you from one stage to the next. So the point is to outlast your opponent. Becoming Queasy deals a temp CON loss, while puking/passing out deals an additional temp CON and 1 temp CHA. Anyone that pukes or passes out is the loser. People can surrender the match whenever they wish, though most will surrender if they are queasy and the other isn't. Bluff and intimidate can also be used to change the way the match plays out. Amazingly, our bard "saved the day" when halfling's opponent puked as the halfling passed out by convincing the crowd that the halfling should win the match (rather than both being disqualified) because he still "held his drink" while the other had lost his.

I realize that this will make the drinking contest take longer, but it provided a good role-playing opportunity for the PCs and foreshadowing opportunity for NPCs.

The way it has gone so far, the urban ranger will be drinking off against Cora on the third night, while our rogue will be going against Jil. Should be interesting.

Has anyone already done a picture of Jil without her makeup? I am looking at introducing her to the party, though I don't want them to know her affiliation (for obvious reasons). Rather than re-inventing the wheel, I thought I would check and see if anyone had already done the photoshopping necessary.

Thanks

Anthony Pasquini wrote:

My PCs will question Ghelve tomorrow. Ghelve knows about the Vanishing. ...

It's really up to you, but personally, I think that's making it too easy for the players. In my game, the gnomes knew that the Vanishing was connected to the magic items they created, but even they didn't know why (e.g. they didn't know anything about the spellweaver connection). But that was 75 years ago. I played it that no one really knew that much anymore about the disease/curse, other than that it had happened and had led to the abandonment of Jzadirune, and even that wasn't common knowledge.

...

My game just finished this section, and how I handled it was that the gnomes as a whole knew about the Vanishing as a dangerous disease. They were scared of it. Very few gnomes knew the full details that the magic items were getting infected. Only the King and the Librarian left messages about it, and most gnomes didn't know.

As soon as a member of the adventuring group was known to be infected, Skie freaked and wanted nothing to do with anything from Jzadirune until it was verified where the infection came from and that everyone was cured. Vortimax Weer played a big part in this verification, as he is a "mentor" for our mage in the group. He took the clear spindle-shaped ioun stone as payment for cleaning all of the infected magical items and curing all infected party members.

No one knows that the Spellweavers are involved with the Vanishing, though I did have Vortimax drop a hint about an ancient race that may have been responsible after he examined the infections using a True Seeing. I looked at it as foreshadowing for the Spellweaver stuff later.

Other games may use the dependence on the Church of St Cuthbert for the Remove Curse spells.

My group just finished Chapter 1, and were selling off their loot. They decided to sell the artsy pieces to Tygot. While there, Tygot took them into his basement and showed them his more expensive pieces. One was of a painting of Surabar wielding Alakast in his climatic battle with Nabthatoron. The Urban Ranger with the "Scion of Surabar" trait immediately bought the (overpriced) painting.

As the group hasn't experienced (yet) the amazing Delvesdeep Demonskar Ball, this is the first time these events are being foreshadowed in my campaign. I was able to find an appropriate Glabrezu picture (from a Drizzt battle). Does anyone have a picture that I could use as Spellmason and Alakast? I would love to be able to photoshop the actual painting.

I googled "Shackled City" and found this image (not very high-res, but workable)

http://www.davidrm.com/rpg/images/tj200511292357-1.jpg

Before the gamenight the party had to start off with getting a full scope out of Triel's chambers, I sat down with a huge page of newsprint drawing paper, and a big ink marker with a fine point and a big blunt point. With the blunt point, I drew up the image of the Carcerian sign in the middle. With the thin tip, I started scribbling all over the newsprint at odd angles, bits and pieces of phrases, many of them refering to "the man in shadow" and the "tatter-backed man." Lines were drawn, trying to relate this being and that feeling to yet another taut conclusion... to decide whether this original 'patron' was who she'd originally thought it was, (Eyrthanul,) or this new being the Cagewrights brought to her attention.

Can this be scanned (even in sections) and uploaded to the RPGenius site? It sounds AMAZING. I love props, and I am about to start Flood Season, so having a huge foreshadowing prop would be great.

I always like reading these type of threads so I thought I'd start my own. I'd like to read about your funniest Adventure Path moment (and I am sure everyone has had one!).

I really enjoy these threads too, and I have a great one to tell from my crew.

The group found a secret treasure room with a clay urn and a set of full-plate standing next to it. Everyone is cautious, and the halfling slings a stone at it. A nat 20 later, the helm flies off and coins inside are seen all the way up to the neck. The party is ecstatic.

The room is searched, and they find a secret door. It opens into a room with a chest in front of another set of armor. The halfling gleefully runs in, jumps on the chest and slaps the armor to knock off the head.

The armor's eyes glow bright red as the Dread Guard awakens and attacks.

The halfling beats a quick retreat and sets up a tripping line with another party member. The armor fails his reflex save (quite pathetically) and falls on its face. The party makes short work of the prone Dread Guard, and everyone has a good laugh.

It was a good session.

This is a good example of where the intersection of reality (Crime and Punishment) and D&D (the use of magic) conflict. In the real world - murder/manslaughter is treated harshly because you can't bring the person back. In D&D, there is always the possibility that the person can be raised from the dead.

You have already mentioned a willingness to have Todd's parents raise him - so the PCs didn't really "permanently" kill him, did they? Does this drop the punishment down to a lesser degree - possibly something akin to aggravated assault? Or are they still punished, on moral grounds, for taking Todd's life (albeit briefly)?

An interesting concept, assuming a few things - 1) there is someone available who is willing to cast the Raise Dead spell, and 2) someone is willing to pony up the cash for the spell (5000gp diamond). In a chaotic city (i.e. the Drow's underground cities), this idea of death being inconvenient might be more likely as they fight among the families. Cauldron is listed as a Neutral Good city. Most people cannot afford Raise Dead, so it is murder/manslaughter regardless.

A theft is a theft, even if the stolen items are returned. I cannot see the court saying it is a lesser charge. I can see them reducing the punishment if the defendant is more than willing to work with the system (i.e. repentant, pleads guilty, etc). At the same time, because the victim is a noble (and not a common criminal/slave), the punishment should be higher, as people of station are "more important" than those of lesser ones. This is a basis of the Feudal system, along with the belief that the gods have chosen your station when you are born, so you live the life you "deserve".

Is it fair? Of course not to us. But to the PCs, this should be par for the course, especially in a noble-controlled city such as Cauldron.

I think it's important to consider legal punishment (if any) that falls in line with the sentence (if any) you determined fitting for Keygan Ghelve in your campaign. If he received jail time for his crimes, then letting a PC get away with no jail time for manslaughter undermines the rule of law in your version of Cauldron.

I heartily agree. It is only when there is consistency that things work well. It should be obvious when there isn't consistency, so the PCs have a chance to smell a rat.

However it goes in your game, I think that Jenya and Alek would certainly have a problem with the PC in question. Players choosing to participate in drunken...

Drunkenness and the brawls that follow are definitely chaotic activities, and so while the church of Kord may "approve" or at least not be overly against it, the Church of Cuthbert and Pelor (and even Wee Jas) will feel no sorrow for the PCs and will be quite harsh.

Hopefully, the player understands that there are dire consequences to such choices. I once had a campaign where a chaotic character took the game for a ride after he burned down a village, and then had the rest of the group chasing him across the countryside. While it was "entertaining" for the players, it completely sidelined any plot and made things much more difficult as the entire group was smeared by one person's actions.

If you have a good relationship with your players, they will either accept that the character will be difficult to continue play with, or you must be willing to sideline the story as they are now less than the heroes they could have been. If they are just starting the Flood Festival (as this was where the Stormblades were originally supposed to taunt the PCs), there is little chance that Jenya will approach the group to rescue Sarcem at the Lucky Monkey. Which breaks more things for this whole adventure.

Of course, you could be more creative than anyone here and come up with something that works for your group that allows them to get back on track.

I wish you luck, as I understand how hard things will be to proceed.

I agree with many of the previous posts about the trial and the possible punishments. So I will attempt to look at the other questions asked.

I have thought of a few things... for example, Lord Vhalantru intercedes on their behalf and negotiates a settlement with the other members of the council, whereby the PCs only have to pay a hefty fine... which Vhalantru graciously "loans" to them.

Vhalantru will likely let them sink or swim on their own in front of everyone else. He doesn't need to politically risk himself for the group. Ticking off the families of the Stormblades to help a fledgling group is WAY too risky. Of course, he could privately offer the loan mentioned before, so now the group owes him and he has something to hold over their heads.

Of course, Todd's parents will raise him if they can. What are the rules for raise dead, exactly? I know the body has to be 'whole' but if the severed head is present, can they sew it back on or something and revive him in that condition?

Based on http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/raiseDead.htm in the SRD, Raise Dead heals "lethal wounds". So the casting of Raise Dead will "sew" Todd's head back on. The spell has to be cast within a week or so, based on the cleric's level. As for the cost, a scroll of Raise Dead usually costs 6125 GP, which should be factored into the fine. The loss of Todd's character level could be added to the fine, at possibly 5 gp/xp point lost. This would be a "ballpark" figure for how much Todd's family would chase them for proper reparations.

Even if Todd were raised from the dead, he still spent some time being dead. As an evil NPC, what sort of afterlife would he go to? Having experienced that (probably unpleasant) afterlife, do you think it would be unreasonable for his alignment to shift to neutral or even good?

Are you following the "typical" Greyhawk Pantheons? Or are you using a different religious system? The typical AD&D setup integrates into Planescape, where Chaotic Evil souls are relegated to the Abyss. Once there, Todd's soul would be transformed into a Lemure, for use as the demons see fit. For the most part, the demons do not torture the lemures in order to make them pay for their sins in life. They use them as cannon fodder for the great battles they fight among themselves and against the other evil races. Lemures, if they succeed, have the opportunity to become more powerful demons. Eventually, as demons, the Chaotic Evil soul will achieve power and a place in the demonic heirarchy.

What does this mean for Todd? The AD&D "afterlife" is not Christian Heaven and Hell, with all people striving for Heaven as a goal. Each alignment has a place that their souls "match" and in that place, they experience something similar to what they lived in life. Chaotic Evil souls strive against other Chaotic Evil souls to achieve dominance through backstabbing, betrayal and complete selfishness. Would Todd be offended by this? Sure, he would experience awful things, but he would know that dominating and betraying your fellows leads to advancement. And this is the life model he has picked. I would have him traumatized on his return, and then make a value judgement.

Of course, if your religious model for your campaign is not Planescape or even Greyhawk, then you can have whatever you wish to happen. Ultimately, the DM should be making decisions that make things fun for the players and create a better story.

Based on the way it is written, it is QUITE a tough fight, as there are 2 waves of re-inforcements (one from the room above (Rm 38) and one from the basement (Rm 39)) if they hear the sounds of battle. So in addition to the original Tongue-Eater and the 3 baboons, 5 thugs and 3 Alleybashers will be jumping into the fray.

This creates a possible CR5+3x1+8x2 fight (EL 9? encounter).

Nasty fight. Based on the deaths thread, things can get quite bad if the group comes through the kitchen first without being able to scout ahead. Silence spells are almost critical if you can't finish off each wave quickly.

I think Tongue Eater's Uncanny Dodge is secondary to overwhelming number of opponents.

Sooo...has anybody put together a town council so I can unashamedly pinch it to use myself?

Ta,

Reggie.

My campaign has just gotten to the arrest of Keygan Ghelves, wherein some of the town politics are at play. My Town Council consists of:

Lord-Mayor Navalant
Lord Aslaxin
Lady Rhiavaldi
Lord Taskerhill
Lord Vhalantru

These are the most influential people in the city. Obviously the Lathenmires and the Vandeborens want to be on the Council and are striving for it. The nice thing is that with the Mayor listening to Vhalantru, there is ALWAYS a 3-2 split (or better) on contentious issues due to support by Rhiavaldi. This means that control is maintained at this level.

Nobles that are left out include Ophelia Knowlern (lives in Hollowsky and isn't interested in Cauldron politics), Terseon Skellerang (he works for the mayor and so doesn't need to be on the Council) and Alek Tercival (I always pictured Alek as considering himself above politics).

I also considered involving the various churches on the council, but felt they already have enough power in the courts (ie. The Church of Wee Jas or St Cuthbert act as the main judges in all cases). The churches can also influence the individual members of the council rather than sitting on it.

Hope that helps. I am also interested in seeing other people's councils, as it will allow me to compare.

Falinth wrote:

2. If one of my players does take the trait, what if any information should they have about the Vanishing? It says in the roleplaying ideas for it that the characters parents told them stories about it. Would they know that magic items hold the infection, or just that the city is cursed in someway?

2. Base their information on their characters skills. Did they put ranks in Knowledge (history) or Knowledge (arcana)? If so, let them know a good deal of accurate information about the Vanishing. If they're completely uneducated then fill their heads with a variety of myths and legends about the event then give them a few kernels of useful info, and leave it them to figure out what is true and what is exaggeration.

This question can quickly become philosophical in nature. The gnomes cleared out because Jzadirune was cursed. If they had realized the origin of the Vanishing, they would have returned, armed with spells to defeat the disease. Therefore, the gnomes took a more "religious" view that they were not meant to be there.

If someone else had figured out what the Vanishing was, they would have been able to cure the gnomes and allow them to return. This didn't happen. People may have guesses, but no one knows what caused the Vanishing for sure. Game mechanics aside, the people should react in fear and anxiety when the "Vanishing" becomes apparent. Skie should be very anxious handling any items from Jzadirune, as she should be aware of the curse. I feel that she may not even wish to touch them, scared that the "curse" may be on them.

Based on this reasoning, in my campaign, no one knows how the Vanishing works. I had everyone roll Fortitude saves at the end of the night as they left the dungeon if anybody had a chance of contracting the disease. This keeps the players on edge, as they don't know what is causing the disease either. I have already had one person infected (the wizard of our group). After some research by the Bluecrater Academy (and many spells cast), they found that Remove Curse worked. Divination spells may be able to ultimately determine where the disease originates, though this would be up to you as the DM.

In a round-about way, I guess I would answer your question by saying that I would hand out rumours about the Vanishing , providing the player with a role-playing opportunity for fear. The mechanics of the curse would be unknown. As a "bonus" to the player that takes the trait, I would hand them the map of Jzadirune as an heirloom instead of getting it from Keygan. This would make the character quite important in the first adventure.

Of course, how you wish to run it is up to you. I heartily agree with Invictus that the enjoyment of your players is important.

I ruled that the Hobgoblins were smart enough to know that trouble was coming, and set up an elaborate ambush that allowed both pit traps to be used effectively. The crowning moment was when a group of hobgoblins, using secret doors, came out behind the wizard and bull-rushed him into the first pit.

The players loved it, I loved it; heck, even my wife, who wasn't playing at the time, loved it.

I had a similar fun time with that room. The main fighter banged on the door between the statue room and the main, trapped hallway. He then bull-rushed the hobgoblin that opened the door. Hobgoblin archers placed themselves just south of the first pit. A couple rounds and the group had killed the archers and could only see the guys at the far southern end. The fighter tries to intimidate them, saying they're next.

The hobgoblins smile and open the trap underneath the fighter, the urban ranger and the cleric. Reinforcements (in 2 waves) then came in from the forge. Chaos ensued.

Of course, cleave came in quite handy, and by the time that the fighter got to the south end, the hobgoblins there were quite panicked. Unfortunately, the southern door (leading to the auction block) was barred on the other side by the "reinforcements" before they came around, so the lever hobgoblins couldn't get out.

The fighter was quite pleased. More so when the wizard cast Knock and the fighter got to charge Kazmojen before the rest of the group was past the second pit area.

If your players spend a lot of time exploring Jzadirune before saving the kids, they will find it frustrating. Especially at first level, many of the encounters are deadly. Keep in mind:

1) The skulks are cowards that run after attacking for a round or two. My group captured one, and with Keygan's help, were able to question it to find the way down.

2) The stalker will similarly cut a deal with adventurers for info on how to make it underground.

3) Finally, the mimic can also provide the information the group wants.

The point of the dungeon seems to be a place to get past quickly, as the Malachite Fortress has easier hobgoblins to defeat. With the XP from that dungeon in hand, the group should be more able to clear Jzadirune. Of course, the Vanishing may scare them off too.

Once Kazmojen is defeated, most of the intelligent creatures (skulks, creepers, stalkers, hobgoblins) will clear out as there are easier pickings elsewhere, and they will take the automatons with them. This makes the dungeon easier. Kazmojen's treasure, the main treasure room and the scroll room in Jzadirune will still be there, so there are ample rewards for taking the time to search the place.

My group is using the tunnels and the keys they have found to open doors. They have realized that the doors are difficult to open, which the rogue has interpreted as a challenge. The wizard learned Knock specifically because of the number of doors, so they are adjusting to the dungeon rather than getting frustrated. Because the kids have been rescued, the time pressure is off, and they can take a little more time to explore and be more thorough.

Some people will see an empty place as being boring. I was going to use the emptiness of the place to heighten the feeling of loneliness and abandonment, along with the sorrow of opportunity lost.

Does Drakthar's Way add anything to the campaign other than just a level boost to make it through Flood Season?

I started my group at 2nd level so they could get through Jzadirune easier and with less frustration. I don't think they will need Drakthar's Way so I'm going to be skipping it. While it does provide some interesting situations (I like the throne room), it does seem like deja vu if you run it right after Jzadirune. It is another dungeon under someone's place in the city. Plotwise, it doesn't really add anything.

After the big dungeon battle of Jzadirune and the Malachite Fortress, I think my group will be happy to have a breather and enjoy the Flood Festival activities (until a certain cleric casts Sending).

I was reading over Flood Season, and have found a difference between the HC and the Dungeon mags. It lies with Grehlia (who doesn't exist in the mags). The HC introduces her as the head of the Ebon Triad cell that Triel and the others in the Kopru ruins work with. The thing is that Grehlia left to join the Cagewrights.

Supposedly she was recruited by Fish. And this is the crux. According to the alternative setup, Grehlia doesn't exist, and Fish's "apprentice" is Jil. I like the idea of foreshadowing a member of the Cagewrights by name, along with the Ebon Triad working on the cages.

So the question remains. Who among the Cagewrights involved the Ebon Triad in the creation of cages? And did that person recruit the leader of the local cell to become a Cagewright apprentice?

Or if the local Ebon Triad cell wasn't altered, how can I foreshadow without giving too much away? I see Skaven getting involved in the creation of the cages, so maybe he could be the contact. He is also the highest level wizard there and has Craft Wondrous Item.

I grabbed the diaries from RPGenius. Great work there, and with a little alteration, I can use it as a foreshadowing device.

My group also just finished the big Kaz fight this weekend. Fario and Fellian were directly involved, as the group asked them to assist in finding the rest of the kidnapped people, using info from a captured skulk.

Once the beholder is seen, Fario and Fellian have the evidence they need to know that something foul is going on. Now they need to work on getting to the bottom of it. I'm looking at having them open up a bit more to the group. I agree that having them looking in the Underdark for their missing friend is another reason to have them not around, though this might be counter-productive if you have denied your players that option (i.e the city council forced them to seal off Keygan's secret door).

A beholder is beyond Tyro's capabilities, so creating a more lasting relationship with local allies will be in their better interests. They may not speak of their entire mission, or how powerful Tyro really is, but they could at least drop a hint that they have a mage as an ally, and that they are concerned about the beholder. This also allows for the Necrocant foreshadowing, as the group needs to know about the Striders (Necrocants are from the alternative plotlines posted on RPGenius).

Having Fario, Fellian and Tyro try to do research on beholders and the slave ring might be an idea. They may need to go back to Sasserine to be a little more discrete on their research. I haven't read up on Vervil, so I am not sure how important he or the slave ring is to the whole plot.

I also agree with Benoist Poire's analysis. At the most basic level, the game is about having fun. If the group isn't having fun, something is definitely wrong.

My group just went down into Jzadirune for the first time, and got knocked around pretty hard. Comments like "This is a dungeon for 1st level characters?" or "You MUST give us Wands of healing or something to help us" flew my way. While I understood their troubles, I also pointed out that they had refused to spend money on healing potions due to greed, and due to pride had refused to ask for help from the local clerics.

So, the players needed to understand that the tactics they chose were not helping them to succeed. Since then, the cleric in the group has taken Scribe Scroll as a feat, and plans to create a number of healing scrolls for insurance, while the wizard is creating a number of knock scrolls to help with the doors.

Obviously, there are times when I do modify the content to make things easier (I will admit that I did not use the adhesive nature of the mimic, as it would have made the combat horrific instead of merely tense). I tend to like to hide these things, allowing the players to believe they are succeeding on their own. There are times when the group should retreat and there are times when they will amaze you with ingenuity. At the same time, I do not back down when the players choose to do things their own way. I just apply appropriate consequences.

Hopefully you will find the balance between helping the players too much and TPKs on a regular basis for your players to have fun.

Once my group went to the orphanage, they were followed by one of the half-elves. There was a chance that the half-elf would be caught tailing them, which could be used as an intro. Having the group tailed all the way into Jzadirune could work too. You then have the failsafe of a rescue group if the party gets over their heads.

One of the characters in my group was an Urban Ranger, so once he got their names from the orphanage, he tracked them down. Introductions happened at that point.

I have also noted something arguably a bit more significant. The map of Cauldron at the front of the book (and on page 75 of the HC) has a scale that makes Cauldron a bit over 3/4 of a mile across (4400 feet or so to be more precise). When you measure some buildings on that map, notably Maavu's warehouses and the Town Hall, they are about triple the size they are shown in later maps - like the ones for Umber Hulk Attack and Riot Scene. House Vhalantru has the same problem, whereas House Rhiavadi is about half the size in its "own" map as it is on the main one and the Church of Wee Jas seems about the same size in both.

In other words, I recommend that you don't rely too closely on the page 75 map for building sizes - or that you rescale the smaller maps if you think some of those buildings seem too small (the Town Hall, for instance, only has about twice the floor area of Orak's bathhouse).

One of my players is trying to create a 3D version of Cauldron using some software. We have run into similar sizing issues. The scale on the main map is WAY off (4x or more) the scale presented elsewhere. The streets are supposed to be 20-30 feet across, yet the scale on the overhead maps make it more like 100+ feet. I'm trying to work with him to see if we can make the scale consistent throughout. I have big concerns about the Temple of Wee Jas fitting properly, and will probably make each square 2.5 feet rather than 5. We might end up editing the overhead maps to make it have a consistent scale. In any case, once we have some solid pictures, I will be posting them to theRPGenius.com. We currently only have the streets laid out in 3D all the way down to the lake.

Aaah, Jil's love-interest would make sense. Unfortunately it doesn't apply to my campaign, but fits in nicely if it did. Artus hasn't come into play yet for my campaign, and this would allow an earlier introduction to him.

I do like Keith's reasoning that Jil believes Drakthar and his goblins are morons that need to be smacked around because they jumped the gun. Very cutthroat and nasty. And the party gets to do the dirty work.

I can get Artus to pass the word along straight from Jil, or have Jil do it personally. My group hasn't encountered Jil yet, and getting that going would be good. Just need to figure if Jil would trust Artus to handle it, or if Jil would want to do it personally.

Thanks for the suggestions.

I have been reading quite a bit of the literature on this alternative SCAP plotline and have been very impressed. Thanks to Delvesdeep for his hard work on the the entire idea, along with the foreshadowing. Characters need to be re-occuring for the party to form relationships with them.

With the involvement of Jil in the alternative, does it make sense that she tells the party about Orak in Drakthar's Way? I thought about this, and I think I might substitute Artus. Artus is playing both sides for info, with his own self-interest at heart. He is in it for the money, and probably doesn't understand the power at stake.

Thoughts?

My group became an adventuring group before the adventure began.

A number of the characters are old friends with one of their number returning after being away for a while. They heard about the rumours of disappearing people, and started looking into it right away. No Ruphus attack. No Cuthbert involvement. No prompting from the DM. They even tracked down the Striders based on info from the orphanage (Urban rangers are amazing trackers of information).

It was after the visit to Skie's Treasury that they decided they wanted to become a formal "adventuring group". They have adopted the name "The Companions of Cauldron", representing their friendship.

I am sure that the Stormblades will feel that the name is quite pretentious.

By the end of the the same session (session 3), they had found the door to Jzadirune and were making preparations to dungeon delve.

Section8

Ah, I see. The saves mean that they don't take Charisma damage, and 2 saves in a row doesn't allow the skulk to recover. A slow, tortuous fading death. You may get better or worse, but the end is inevitable.

And it is all temporary Charisma damage.

This makes more sense now. I haven't worked with diseases a lot in previous campaigns, so it didn't come across.

Thanks

Section8

I have the hardcover, and have just started my campaign (session 2 was on Tuesday that just past). I had a number of the same questions when I looked at this campaign a while back.

For the most part, the hardcover puts a lot of the background information about the city at the front. Things I have found I needed to get together before I got started:

1) Create the priests of Kord. My group has people that worship Kord, and so this became very important quite early on. The book doesn't handle it. It just provides names, no stats.

2) Clarify the tribes. My group is quite interested in "which humans" as opposed to just "human". Each tribe has specific practices and beliefs. In our campaign, this is taking place in the World of Greyhawk, though is separate from the rest of Flan due to the distance (in the Amedio Jungle). For us, the nobles are descended from the Suel that escaped before the destruction of their empire. They speak Amedi. Most of the others in the city speak Amedi too, as they deal with the nobility. At the same time, the influence of the Sea Princes during their 100 years of occupation has caused a lot of Keoish to be spoken. This is the tongue of the "poorer" classes in the land, though it is a tongue mostly spoken in Sasserine, where the Sea Princes focused.

3) Decide if you are going to use the "templates" in the Appendix, and read up on the classes that work best. There is a nice section at the back about running the campaign that details the types of characters that work best. It also has some great templates for local characters. These add flavour and create a more integrated feel for the game. I also used some of the Feats from the Savage Tide players guide (at http://paizo.com/store/paizoExclusives/v5748btpy7t7i ) to add additional flavour as some of the characters are from Sasserine or their histories worked well (like Merchant's Tongue).

4) Price lists for the taverns. I have seen some great articles on this forum for these. The group will ask how much a room, dinner, or drink is, and having this ready is a good idea.

5) Make a list of all of the Noble families, and where their income comes from. Some of this information is hidden in the starting section under the different local towns. It shows where their interests lie. (One of the characters took Nobility as a feat, and I had to integrate him closely into the noble houses)

6) Read up on the offspring of the noble families that appear as the Stormblades in Chapter 3, and have them appear earlier as a foreshadowing event. Possibly have one of them get angry at the attention the group is garnering.

7) Understanding how you will do experience. One of the topics I have seen here is that the adventure is expecting 6 adventurers, which creates lots of extra xp if you have less people. Consider this as you form the group.

8) Clarifying how the Vanishing works. This is the only inconsistency I have found in the first adventure. Permanent vs temporary Charisma damage, able to fight off the disease or not. These are decisions you need to make before anyone gets infected.

I have seen that there has been re-editing of the adventures in the hardcover to include information that was created ad-hoc as they produced the adventures in Dungeon magazine. Things like the Cagewights and Skie's Treasury are pretty obvious from the start in the hardcover. The added Flood Festival events at the start of Chapter 3 are great.

I'll admit I have not read EVERYTHING in the hardcover yet. I am trying to read in depth 2-3 chapters ahead of where the group is, so I know where they are going and working out problems before they get there. The Flood Festival is the only "timed" event I've seen in my quick perusing, with the focus on having it in the winter (rainy season). Overall, the hardcover provides an excellent skeleton/basic muscle to begin with.

Section8

Searching the archives, I found this article

I’m still in balance on how to deal with the Vanishing contamination and effects ==> The details of the disease are on pg. 46, under the heading "THE VANISING (EL 2)". It is seperate from the description of its history on the previous page.
Does a SR apply as soon as a PC touch an infected item? ==> Athough it's a magical disease, I don't believe that SR applies. There is a caster level of 10 listed for the purpose of removing the disease with break enchantment, but I don't see that SR applies against the disease. The disease is transmitted with the magic item is used.
Is it a roll against Fortitude or against Will ==> A DC 15 Fortitude save.
Does a new SR apply every period of time the PC keeps the contact with the object - each 12 hours or each day? ==> No SR check. But a new Fortitude save is needed every 24 hours the character is infected.
When a PC is infected and cured is he stabilized at his current state or is he recovering it’s standard shape? ==> Even when he is diseased, his natural healing heals his Charisma damage one point per day. And he of course also heals Charisma after the disease is removed.
How works the cure, is it instantaneous or painfully long? ==> Only magical treatment can save a victim of the Vanishing. A successful break enchantment, remove disease, or remove curse cures the disease. After that, natural healing or restoration spells can recover the damage Charisma score. The disease is not painful; you just fade from reality.

While very informative, between it and the adventure, there are some problems.

First off, there is a skulk infected with the disease. According to the disease description, only the use of Dispel Magic, Remove Disease or Remove Curse allows someone to recover. Yet none of these spells are available to the infected skulk. Why hasn't he faded away yet?

Secondly, is the disease causing "permanent" Charisma loss or temporary? Based on the article above, it seems to be temporary. Yet again, if the skulk can recover if he isn't fading away, why hasn't he recovered the Charisma and been able to return to the others?

Thirdly, if the Charisma loss is temporary, the +4 hide benefit is very short term, as you will either die, or lose it in a few days from recovering.

My attempt to clean this up is this. The disease can be fought off like regular diseases (2 successful saves in a row after contracting the disease), but the Charisma loss is permanent if this is done. This explains the skulk.

The casting of Dispel Magic, Remove Disease or Remove Curse will allow the recovery of the Charisma lost in the last 24 hours (as temporary), but previous Charisma losses are permanent.

A Restoration spell can give back any Charisma lost. Of course, until the group gets a high enough level cleric, they would have to go to the temple of Wee Jas for assistance, as they are the only ones with a cleric of high enough level to cast it.

Comments?

Section8

I am new to these boards, but am pleased to see a lot of information that will help with my campaign (like the suggestions for the Haunted Village). I just started the campaign in the last 2 weeks, and tonight is the second session. I have:

Male Human Cleric of Fharlanghn (is the Noble son of the Aslaxins of Cauldron)
Male Human Bard (travelled from the Hold of the Sea Princes to avoid the nuttiness there from the Scarlet Brotherhood) - has Merchant's Tongue
Male Human Barbarian (Pit fighter from Sasserine) - Soul scarred and Arena fighter

The cleric, while being the eldest son of the Aslaxin family, is not interested in taking over the Coy Nixie or the other businesses. This has annoyed his father. The second son is the one from the book. It is the interplay between his older brother and his father that has caused him his uncertainty. These 3 people just travelled from Sasserine to meet up with the cleric's friends that he grew up with. They are:

Male Halfling Rogue - Touched in the Head
Male Human Urban Ranger - Scion of Surabar
Female Human Wizard - Dream Haunted

Everyone is 2nd level, with the Barbarian at 3rd. This will make the starting a little easier as they adjust to the campaign. It also means I won't have to be merciful regarding traps or encounters. Due to player changes, it is likely that the barbarian will be an NPC soon enough.

I used some of the feats from the Sasserine player's guide, along with the starting character "templates" from the HC of SCAP.

I had the three already in the city select rumours (one each, with an extra for the halfling) to begin with. This has already given them "leads" that they will probably follow up on. The first session was literally the meet and greet, though it looks like they are interested in the disappearances already.

All of the humans are of Suel descent, except for the Oeridian Bard and the Touv ex-slave now Barbarian.