You are not the only one. I also like the 4 Corner Paladins and the Druids can represent the Neutral alignments.
Everybody has their own preference...including the employees of Paizo. As they said, that's why they are focusing on the LG Paladin for the playtest...and others will probably follow.
Joe M. wrote:
How about multiple simultaneous castings of Prestidigitation as it levels up?
Mark Seifter wrote:
Grease is the word.
There are unexplored areas of Glorian (and homebrewed worlds). There could exist an orc civilization that had been "undiscovered" until recently.
Since orcs will worship any warlike power, these could worship the Aesir pantheon. I see great appeal to Orcs in (some variations of) Odin, Thor, Frigga, Tyr, Magni and Modi. Viking culture could fit the Orcs.
Why would the Aesir do this? Maybe they want to establish a foothold in Glorian (or homebrew world). Just a thought.
I know the dislike words but I thought they liked to draw pictures albeit crass, crude drawings.
Goblins are NE...that's an easy transition to N. They are also not stupid...they probably just don't know better.
I feel Kobold Press may have had an influence as well. (I really wish their next kickstarter would be a return of Kobold magazine.)
Oops. You're right. My mistake.
I've just associated orcs with their one-eyed god for too long. Introducing the Asgardian Pantheon would almost be returning the status quo for them.
On the other hand, orcs are known for being neither intelligent or wise. They might not notice or care.
An orc is *definitely* scarier than a goblin. Not only are they vastly more physically powerful, and relatively better organized, not only are large-scale goblin raids relatively rare (Thistletop attacked Sandpoint once under the influence of of powerful non-goblin leaders, and before that mostly stole junk and flotsam; Belkzen attacks its neighbors *constantly*), but orcs are dedicated to a God who wants to *literally destroy everything.* Say what you will about the tenets of Lamashtu, or the Barghest Hero-Gods at least its an ethos.
Since half-orcs have been around so long, players aren't bothered by orcs or half-orcs inclusion in the game or core races (likes some are about goblins).
Maybe all/what orcs really need is a new pantheon: the pantheon of the One-Eye replaced by the pantheon of Asgard.
I can easily imagine (some version of) Odin seeing Orcs potential as Vikings. He would have no issue with destroying the brutish, hateful, small pantheon and replacing them with his own. All orcs would know is that they worshiped a one-eyed god then and they worship a one-eyed god now.
There are many unexplored places in Glorian (and, probably, any homebrew adventure worlds). In one of these unexplored places perhaps a tribe of goblins received divine intervention.
Goblins dislike words but have no loathing for pictures; so, they would have no problem with hieroglyphs. Who else likes hieroglyphs? The gods of the Pharaohs.
My favorite is Bes - the ugly, short god - for the deity who took this tribe under his tutelage. Why he did do this? Don't know. I do know this was a long time ago.
Now the "known world" has come into contact with "undiscovered" goblin nation. Adventurers would found powerful goblins of different alignments.
I think this could be as good a theory as any. I'm sure Paizo has imagined something better.
"...we're going with the normal gang (plus goblin) for the Core Rulebook." Other races will follow in other books -- "...tengu will not be too far behind, but we're keeping the core of our game similar in terms of classes and races, partly because people would literally murder us if we did otherwise." - Erik Mona
I'm thinking they might want to include 1 or 2 other races in the core or people will literally murder them.
At least, that's the impression I'm getting from this thread.
Also, have your players ever encountered LE or CE humans?
Were they considered exceptions to the rule? Was this considered at all?
Erik Mona wrote:
I'm glad to read this.
I think we all mostly want the first (and only the first) monster book to be the biggest.
I'm also understanding concerns that the book's spine will break if it has too many pages.
Maybe we need lesser pages (400 to 450?) and more core books? (Core Book alpha, Core Book beta, Monster Book alpha, Monster Book beta?)
I won't pretend I could even guess the correct solution.
(Oh, and I think we enjoy 'cryptic'.)
Wei Ji the Learner:
I didn’t miss the Featured Races. IMHO, some are simply not ready to be core races.
The Shifty Mongoose:
I really like Kobolds too (probably because of Kobold Press). Alas, they are way underpowered to be a core race. (Some will say that does not matter; I say that it will get old and fast.)
My point: that if Goblins and a few others are balanced and ready to become core races, then why not?
This is the Second Edition; Nocticula may ascend and, maybe, a few other cosmic changes as well. I am willing to embrace a whole new fantastic world…with Goblins as core.
"big damn heroes vs everyday joes"
If you want to play an average joe, then you should play a Commoner. See how difficult everything is when you have negligible abilities. (The Adequate Commoner is a great guide on how to do that semi-successfully.)
Then play as an Adept or Expert or Warrior. You be surprised how much more you have to start with...and can do!
Finally, play as a PC class. You'll feel like a superhero.
the nerve-eater of Zur-en-Aarh wrote:
How about the Gods of Pegana by Lord Dunsany then?
Per Pathfinder's own Advanced Race Guide, Goblins could easily be a core race. (I know this is not a favorite publication for many.)
Per the same guide, so could:
With a little work, so could:
So, instead of freaking out about Goblins, maybe think of them as opening a door to an expanded core of races.
In Unearthed Arcana, the Bard, Paladin and Ranger were all 15 level Prestige classes. I would not mind that. (It also had Paladins of Freedom, Honor, Slaughter and Tyranny. I wouldn't mind that either.)
I agree with Leedwashere, most Prestige Classes could become Archetypes...except the Mystic Theurge. I would not mind if the Mystic Theurge became a 15 level Prestige Class as well.
The bestiary should be the same size.
I need a big book of wicked for my hero to combat.
Erik Mona wrote:
Well, how many pages is the core rulebook going to be?
Community poll: What is your preferred abbreviation for Pathfinder 1st Edition and Pathfinder 2nd Edition?
Mark Seifter wrote:
You can use PC rules for bad guys too, and it works just fine if you want to put the time into it. But even then, your PCs probably don't often beat up a bunch of random no-combat-threat bookbinders, and if they do, they can use the monster rules for a really weak leveled foe.
Can you tell us if NPC classes still exist?
So do NPC classes(Aristocrat, Commoner, Expert, etc.) still exist or are they incorporated a different way?
It doesn't look good.
There are only 4 spell lists. They are probably:
So, no spell list for the Adept. If no Adept, probably no other NPC classes too.