I guess this is as good a place as any to post this:
I can't seem to get NPC spellcasters to challenge the PCs. Between their recommended ability score arrays and low starting funds, I can't get the DCs of their spells to be anything better than a joke when compared to the PC's saves (which have better ability scores and gear to put into them). Even using things like potions to save money and increase the NPCs' spellcasting stats only goes so far. Even using clever tactics can be real tricky if you can't get any of the magic to stick.
Hoping for some advice.
Don't do this directly. This is a game of rock, paper and scissors now, and the party usually can provide all three, while a lone spellcaster is just this: alone.
Specific advice for a spellcaster:
1. Multiple saves per round are your friend. For example, a band of summoned Dretches can use multiple Stinking Clouds. Add Solid Fog to this, and you have 2 rounds of pure unmitigated panic among PCs. All for the price of a single medium level summon (Summon Monster V should be good enough) and a single support spell.
2. Always reduce visibility first. If they can pinpoint your location, or worse, if they can pinpoint you with ranged attacks, you're a goner. Invisibility is the most often countered spell in game, so take care to research alternatives:
- illusions of terrain features
- illusionary doubles or illusionary spell effects
- fog spells, with Solid Fog being the staple of battlefield control
3. Multiple saves, part two. Toxic fumes, poisoned weapons and caltrops. Target Strength ability to paralyze the casters. A group of friendly shadows (or controlled shadows) will do the trick nicely. A large group of kobolds with strength sapping darts will do good, too.
4. Invest in +Stealth items. Make Stealth your primary skill. Use darkness spells a lot.
5. Fireball sniping. Fireball is a long range spell. Cleric's worst save is Reflex. Bonus points if you can get several fireballs to go simultaneously. If you kill, or at least scare their healer, they will flee, too.
This is one of those areas where the disconnect between simulationist accuracy and the 'rule of cool' that EntrerisShadow cites kindof makes my head explode. I mean come on, the GRIM REAPER uses a scythe, and it doesn't look like a glaive!
Death uses a harvest scythe because it takes lives, not fights. A Grim Reaper is just a battlefield parody of the original, and should be taking penalties for use of improvised weapon.
Incidentally, if a reader were to read this anthology and feel compelled to write a review for Amazon or DrivethruRPG, that would be nifty.
Just sayin'. :)
Sadly I am in a middle of hellish project implementation period, and do not expect to gather enough will to put together anything passable for two or more weeks.
That said, a few things come to my mind.
It's too short. Or maybe it's too bad that there aren't any sequels yet. Or maybe it's that most of the stories complete before you are ready to part ways with protagonists.
Tarnished Souk needs more locales (sweaty baths, hippodrome stables, market attractions, etc) and historical events (ordinary folk love telling stories, I'm sure that a few world shattering event circulate around). Many authors used only generalized information. Possibly getting them to read excellent Faces series would allow them to realize that Coliseum and Khan are the least interesting parts of the whole setting. We've got:
- gods and divine creatures acting like scheming business entrepreneurs
- likable evil guys with good PR
- several very unique personages
At least two stories need to bring more Faces to the game. I won't say which (well, I revealed one of the prime candidates already), but the characters make for prime material for developing them further.
The Noir take on Coliseum setting, while original, struck me as a bit too genre breaking, especially that car accident and IV vegetable parts. I liked the hardboiled character, I just wish his backstory had more to do with fantasy.
That's it.
Regards,
Ruemere
PS. In case I haven't made it abundantly clear: I have enjoyed the book to the point I "ate" it in a single sitting.
At least one of my characters would be like "hello there, may I transcribe that from you?" *charming smile of a handsome youth* (he had a fling with Dragon Age Isablea-like mariner NPC). If she's attractive, he would be more interested in "transcribing" than the map itself (3.5 game, Vow Of Poverty from BoED)
Others would be more like charm person or *bash* to unconsciousness and copy the map. None of my current characters (and only one or two I ever played) would kill and tan the skin (which would be required to avoid spoilage and thus destruction of map).
But as Midnight Angel said... YOU CAN'T DO THAT.
Thou.
Shalt.
Not.
Repeat after me; 'this is 3rd Edition. There Will Be Blood.'
Yes, of course it's a wasted opportunity.
[...]But RAW.... we can't do that.
Dude. Seriously. There is no "can't" or "shall not" in any GM's book.
Besides, Chaotic Evil does not translate into Chaotic Evil Stupid, Chaotic Evil Suicidal. You have also:
- dying condition (you now, the one between -1 and -CON points)
- non-lethal damage
- intimidation, diplomacy and bluff
- sheer will to survive
One of the most terrifying villains the characters met was really CE [1]. But he did not spill blood. He just talked people into doing bad stuff.
Really bad stuff. Stuff that made my players go "urgh", even though they played in my games for years.
Regards,
Ruemere
[1] To be precise, it was not d20. The guy had a really nice car, too. And the players just wanted to get out of a abandoned gas station in a middle of radioactive nowhere (a dream of one of alternative near futures).
Thanks Ruemere for that. I always appreciate other insights into what we did right or wrong. Im glad you enjoyed the adventure.
Weren't it too low for level requirements to match my party, I would incorporate it in my campaign straight away.
The concepts I would really love to use (some spoilers, obviously):
- the foreshadowing of coming of certain toymaker - this is pure horror, on the par with stronger episodes of Millenium TV series.
- the heartbreaking return of lost daughter.
- the handkerchiefs.
(there are other powerful or memorable moments in the series, I have just listed my top three)
a few bits of advice from a fellow GM on running the adventure(s).
1. Make sure that at least one PC invests into linguistics. There are several important moments, which depend on the characters being able to communicate, understand local customs or simply appreciate the flavor of a scene. Comprehend Languages is unlikely to suffice.
2. There is a lot of social interaction (well, maybe not a lot, but it is still very important). Advise your players not to use Charisma as dump stat. Several episodes are open to your interpretation, and the players my overcome serious obstacles (especially in part two) if they can sway unnamed PCs.
3. Most opponents are underequipped (and have quite low CR) - certain dog comes to mind, for example. This is one of the rare few scenarios, where players can get through quite a few scenes with thinking instead using brute force. Again, this may be open to interpretation. There are also straight combat encounters, but if your players pack decent AC, they should be fine (even boss enemies sport low attack bonuses).
4. Try to impress the players that dying is a bad thing. Have some NPC expire on them and then come back to haunt them.
5. It may lose a bit of impetus toward the end of the third book, so you may consider developing your own finale. It should not be too hard, as there are a few important plots points unresolved.
Overall, I really liked the series. It's well worth playing (despite several painful typos and layout mishaps).
[...]
@ruemere: Also added to the list. Probably both 14th-15th level so as to keep up with your PCs. I'll build them as humans...you can make any necessaryb alterations.
[...]
Do your worst. I'm curious as to the way you're going to build them - so far most of the NPCs presented here were of rather direct type.
Here's a little challenge from me - build two support characters for black ops team. Kindly read the background section first.
THIS IS SCARN!
There is an environment-friendly group of seriously minded folk. Composed mostly of humans and high gorgons (think humans with sorcerer talents until they decide to split their bellies and let snake swarms pour forth), they like their meals to be roasted alive and to come from sentient stock (humans and elves mostly). Ritualistic, shamanistic, conservative with access to legacy of ancient culture.
Their preferred classes are druids, sorcerers and bards. There are no clerics (or any straight divine classes) among their ilk (the gods are anathema to them). Witches and Oracles may be also thematically appropriate, however, Oracles especially, they should have strong ties to the nature (and one true way of doing things).
When they infiltrate settlements of nascent human nations, they tend to use variety of guises (the policy of burning druids being still often practiced, as out of 10 druids, only 1 is likely to be only neutral).
THE PCS TO CHALLENGE
6 characters, 14 - 15 level, mix of neutrals and good. Survivors (don't mind choosing lesser evil if their lives are at stake). Some of them highly proficient in class specialty skills. Some of them distinctly favored by gods (read: they may be hard to surprise). Sometimes have problems with acting as a team due to highly individualist attitudes.
THE CHARACTERS NEEDED
I am requesting creation of two great support characters (any level you deem suitable), a druid and a bard. These guys are likely to be leaders acting from safety of mid-line, with a crowd of disposable (charmed, hired, dominated, threatened) mooks. They are not going to sacrifice themselves (they are survivors, too), but they are fanatics and do not expect any mercy.
They need to be able to turn rabble, monsters or anyone else they control into veritable engines of destruction, to inflict resource damage (to make PCs bleed their resources - wands, potions, scrolls) and to disappear (expect divinations spells).
They need to be reasonably adept at stalking the PCs.
A LITTLE MORE BACKGROUND
The PCs have destroyed a crew of high gorgons attempting to sway a whole region of orc tribes back to old ways (through fear) - thanks to semi-peaceful coexistence with humans, the orcs were slowly settling becoming more civilized. What's worse, the orcs were adopting worship of gods.
A group of high gorgons in their artifactic purple worm construct (think nuclear submarine, armed with disease-and-undeath-spreading nukes, only running underground with its crew in deep hibernation) was unleashed, spreading fear and terror (i.e. the nature reasserting its dominion over civilized orcish settlements).
The PCs prevailed. Now, 4-5 levels laters it is payback time.
A taskshaper with Living Legend template, you know, a guy who lives off challenging famous heroes, would be a terrifying prospect to fame-starved adventurers.
On a second thought, maybe it would be a good idea to build another Tarnished Souk "Face"... a professional anti-hero, a hero-killer, a Hero's Bane.
The worst part of lich life is finding associates who are willing to put out with Aura of Fear, nasty smell, icky touch and, sometimes, murderous urges.
In my campaign most intelligent undead recognize this shortcomings and plan accordingly as per golden rule of "good public relations make for a future with less property damage".
The standard set up have been already mentioned - the Alter Self spell followed by Permanency. The good looks cost a lot (Aura of Fear is a useful tactical tool), but in dire emergencies one can simply dismiss the spell.
Other, less mundane arrangements:
Uber lich, one known as Red Governor, has transmuted itself into a tiny version of itself on permanent basis (Polymorph Any Object) and has a variety of mobile body constructs to ride (being tiny adds a lot to AC, and various spells make for a lack of larger hands) - the list of bodies includes Large version of itself.
Baryoi, a lawful good accidental lich, has taken to wearing a mask of living tissue and loose fanciful clothes. He looks human as long as no one begins to grope him him. And his smell is fine, since he cured his bones personally, using delicate spices and perfumes to improve the impression.
Several other NPCs over the course of years used Extended Polymorph self.
Regarding relations with other folks, especially those keen on killing undead:
- first and foremost - don't give them a reason to suspect you're of different persuasion
- invest into good Disguise check bonuses (breathing lessons in front of a mirror help)
- spend cash on good deeds (but don't overdo it)
- watch a few Dexter episodes to learn how to imitate the living
Alter Self followed by properly researched Permanency.
You're still an undead creature, but you don't look like one.
You probably lose Aura of Fear since the other look at your other, less horrific form.
Scarred Lands had a lot of prestige classes, and most of them were, to put it very mildly, unimpressive. You're strongly recommended to use archetypes (or create archetypes) if you'd like to use some of their funky abilities during conversions.
Please note that Ruby Phoenix Tournament features a lot of fights with several opportunities to get your characters weakened in between. Slight weakening of less important characters allows for making the plot developments slightly more manageable.
Valhalla - playing god with newbies.
MU Online - my first castle siege.
Guild Wars - finishing campaign (most of the time).
Guild Wars 2 - turning into lich form for the first time.
I will be doing this for the 101 Series I have the question out to our subscribers asking which they want me to do first Urban environment (like Ptolus or The Great City) or Forest/Wilderness (think Kingmaker).
Hmm. How about doing double feature, one common and one exotic table.
So in answer to your speculation: it was not originally intended for 4e but it certainly was considered for conversion by Clark when it looked like Necro was going to be able to get behind the GSL as you have mentioned (even though I dreaded the thought of doing so due to my own system limitations).
Many thanks for sharing the story. Thanks to such little pieces of knowledge, the less known parts of history come to light.
Greg A. Vaughan wrote:
And just for clarification to anyone who might be looking to bait an edition fight. I am not criticizing 4e, I'm just noting that in my experience it has a quite different adventure design philosophy that I was having trouble getting comfortable with for a Tsar conversion.
Very similar feelings here. I think that 4E exhibits certain elegance of design, as opposed to somewhat chaotic placement of systems of 3.x.
For example, limiting immediate options available to characters during the course of an encounters significantly simplifies decision process (no more wizardly guys spending precious minutes poring over tens of available spells, or fighters iterating through umpteenth d20 roll to confirm a critical). It is something I would really love to see in Pathfinder 2.0.
HOWEVER! While limiting immediate options is good, the downtime should allow the character ample amount of choices to change their set of abilities. My favorite MMO, Guild Wars, lets anyone in a safe zone to completely change list of their skills and equipment: Necromancer/Assassin (tactical approach + nuking single targets) becomes Necromancer/Ranger (pet + curses) or Necromancer/Paragon (complete with a spear, high on adrenal skills and ready to protect its group with armor boosting skills).
Arcana Evolved by Monte Cook has its casters casting spells like sorcerers, yet the list can be altered on daily basis... how cool is that?
That's why I'm fine with most systems. And this is a proof that my speculation was purely academical :)
That also makes me doubly honored, to be commented on and answered by members of Frog God Games crew.
*tips his hat toward audience and leaves the stage, disappearing in shadows*
I was just saying that your conclusion, while a valid hypothesis, never came close to being a reality from as much as I know about what happened during that time. Bill may know more about it than I do (if he left something out when he told me about it) but Greg, of course, would be the final arbiter on whether or not he entertained the idea of converting it to 4E.
I did not mean to pry, merely to speculate. I was just trying to point out how one bad (some would say even, evil) business decision of creating GSL influenced the development of the industry.
For example, let's imagine that 4E comes with OGL. Pathfinder is still likely to happen, however most adventure paths are going to feature double stats or online conversions to 4E. Most third party publishers follow in Paizo's wake double statting their adventures and supplements. No system is likely to prevail though sheer market penetration would probably cause 4E to remain dominant.
Some folks still prefer 3.5, some moved to Pathfinder to use Paizo support and some chose 4E.
At this point, we probably get ToHC with S&W version, Pathfinder version and 4E version. News of imminent Rappan Athuk release with 4E stats would cause excitement, especially since WotC support for adventuring is scarce. As for Slumbering Tsar, well, who knows?
One of my favorite authors, Philip K. Dick, has written a novel titled "The Man in the High Castle". This fascinating story sometimes makes consider big what-ifs of real world. This is one of them.
Ruemere said on that thread that TSTS was probably initially intended for as a 4E release. I don't believe it ever was.
First of all - this is not based on actual knowledge. It's more like a theory based on several facts.
The announcement of Slumbering Tsar by Necromancer Games occurred shortly before advent of 4E and its evil companion, the GSL (Game System License). Thanks to GSL not being shown early enough, quite a few companies, included Necromancer Games (as presented by Clark Petersen himself) held off its products hoping to release them for the new system. It also bears mentioning, that 3.5 market seemed quite saturated at that point, and it seemed quite sensible to get ready for the next incarnation of the most popular system.
Necromancer Games planned strong opening for 4E, but as we now know, Clark's was quite wary of GSL, and so products were put on hold... somewhere along the line real life job claimed him, too.
Now, I do not really know whether Slumbering Tsar was intended to become the next big release but it stands to a reason, that if Necromancer Games were successful with their 4E releases, they would probably invest into the great work Slumbering Tsar is. And invest they would have to, as the size of the book would require a lot of capital.
"Your class sucks because you're screwed if 10 Erinyes jump you". Straw is cheap this summer, I see.
CR 15 encounter with multiple AOEs is pretty standard.
Ashiel was being merciful. I would use 2 liches (CR 14) - two saves vs Fear, Circle of Death, Waves of the Fatigue.
The mount is dead, fatigued and panicked x2. Indomitable Mount works only once per round.
Ditto for the cavalier, though admittedly he is likely to have survived the round.
My belief is that Attic Whisperer was supposed to be pathfinderized version of Chucky the Doll.
However for editorial reasons something was cut off from the original creature and so the creature lost the oomph.
Anyway, there is a simple way to make it a fearsome CR4 creature:
- add Hide in Plain Sight (Su)
- add Fast Stealth rogue talent
- add Spring Attack feat
With hit and run tactics, the creature can work pretty good:
- Stealth +17
- dimly environment with lots of boxes
Could you produce a demo of a single finished page of the product? I would like to check out your writing style, the way the product is going to eventually look like and the way you are going to approach subject.
The reason I ask is that from time to time I get interested in an neat idea only to find that the author's ability to shape a concept in an pleasing and logical way is not yet up to the task... or that one's idea of putting out the product is somewhat worryingly close to using Word, Times New Roman font and converting documents to PDF (it IS possible to produce beautiful things using tools like these - Times New Roman excepted, perhaps).
Specifics:
- a single, typical page
- no graphics or other embellishments needed
- a glimpse of real content (crunch, setting, anything original)
- clean and legible presentation
For more inspirations, consider having a look at "full-sized previews" at DriveThruRPG, even though these previews present only first, most bland, pages.
I like your premise, that of dark fairy tale meets dark fantasy. However, as a GM I need hard info to make the choice. Specifically:
- is it black and white only?
- what is the CR spread? My players have characters around 14th level, can I challenge them using your Bestiary?
- what's the layout of monster statblock? Is it Paizo default look-alike or something else?
- do the monsters get page each? Less? More?
Regards,
Ruemere
The print book is B&W and the PDF is a mix.
The monster's CR range from 1/2 to 19 though the majority are in the 2 through 12 range. About 15 of the monsters are above CR 12, two of which are dragons (so you can make them higher CR) and one is a template.
Almost all of the monsters are 1 per page, though a few of the bigger and more complicated ones get 2 pages. The stat block format is very similar to the one Paizo uses.
Hope that helps!
Thank you. That's what I wanted to know.
I really like your setting, it's just a little too lowlevel for my campaigns.
I like your premise, that of dark fairy tale meets dark fantasy. However, as a GM I need hard info to make the choice. Specifically:
- is it black and white only?
- what is the CR spread? My players have characters around 14th level, can I challenge them using your Bestiary?
- what's the layout of monster statblock? Is it Paizo default look-alike or something else?
- do the monsters get page each? Less? More?
Accept the surrender, then grant the creature an immediate trial. Based on the outcome of this trial, he is either a criminal to be executed or a prisoner of war.
This. By surrendering to you, the goblin also submits yourself to your judgement.
The trial can be very quick - you can use your Detect Evil to verify creature's alignment afterwards, and Sense Motive to find out if it is going to respect your verdict.
If it is evil, untrustworthy, put it to the sword. If the creature can be redeemed, you should give it a reasonable chance... just remember that you're not that one of these silly guys in spandex who let villains commit crimes time and time again.
Finally, if you lack resources to take the creature into custody, use your charisma to promise terrible retribution and let it go. Let the GM worry about it later.
You see, at that time I have been a firm believer in cathartic resolutions to plots - you dragged PCs through hell, to make them giddy with happiness upon escaping with their soul intact (and the body in a body bag).
(Inspired by French noir movies) Being shot to death by normals or put away into mental hospital as a vegetable, was infinitely more preferable than being dragged into reality by a nepharite, with a self ripped open like over-ripe fruit to be digested for (personal) eternity. Or becoming a self-aware canned meat product to be served your (former) family.
Reveal that Ameiko is a young man who prefers to dress in female clothes.
Regards,
Ruemere
You are Brilliant!!!
Once upon a time, in a different campaign, under a faraway system, there was a similar issue. A female NPC, a brash artist PC with messed up past and a GM who had designs for the NPC which made the notion of the romance impossible.
Unfortunately for then somewhat less experienced GM, the reveal scene happening on the verge of intimacy, bore quite a surprising fruit. The NPC revealed she was a young man of female persuasion... and the PC raised the stakes coming out. The GM, somewhat flabbergasted, pointed out to the player that "you cannot do this now, there is nothing like this in your character background". The player countered that the story of his character, while 4 pages long, showed distinct lack of female element. The GM conceded.
The PC and the NPC traveled the road together from now on. The campaign rolled on toward unhappy end [1]. Everyone learnt something :)
I've had a similar problem until I have an epiphany of sorts. Why try to beat them (and die horribly), when you can join them? The life of GM got simpler, while players had to embrace the world with shades of grey.
Example:
An Annis Hag Druid of orcish origin, a god mother of her semi-settled almost civilized tribe, who struck a deal with a devil (i.e. the PCs) to save her tribe from a plague... though the image of a hag telling a story how she used her enormous claws to dig frozen earth to bury children of her tribe might have had to something with players not bringing fire and sword to distinctly evil community.
Hmm, Interesting the blaze idea certainly has merrit and fits corean to a T, The earthquake thematicaly works but Not sure how to implament it without makeing the golem seem like "Mecha Kadum" as allot of their abilities are similar. (Awesome visual hehe)
Ultimately, the golem is probably a piece of Corean's Mithril Heaven torn out like a pound of divine flesh and sacrificed on the altar of necessity. In other words, it is more like a self-contained demiplane with means of affecting coterminous Prime Material than a creature or an object.
Regarding mecha-aspects, I am intentionally planting unclassifiable motifs in my campaign. The players are still remembering fondly final of showdown of Banewarrens, when *major spoilers*
Spoiler:
a fallen planetar ripped apart a dragon and then clashed with a interplane mining-diggine mech pilotted by PCs.
That's why your conversion so interesting.
Imagine a headless, heartless animate body Kadum arriving at the height of Blood Monsoon, with epic level players fearfully animating wreck of Corean's golem to wage epic battle in ruins of Mithril...
Practically any urban detective fantasy (Aloha from Hell and Pennies for Ferryman) of late.
Returning to The Master and Margarita (Mikhail Bulgakov) now and then - it's hard to read again something you know almost by heart.
Accomplished another reading of Night Watch series (Sergey Lukanienko).
Death's Heretic, Prince of Wolves and Master of Devils.
Not really a fan of hard fiction, history or classic books. Still waiting for Nail Gaiman to outdo his American Gods.
Regards,
Ruemere
PS. As a great tie-in into good books:
- BBC Sherlock
- BBC Jekyll
Both classics re-imagined by Stephen Moffat.
To get a good feel, treat yourself to first five minutes of Jekyll at youtube. The Sherlock is all the rage now so I'll spare you my favorite moment :)
My apologies for taking so long to provide a comment - I've been away for some time.
clff rice wrote:
[...]
How do you sugest handeling the repair. Have it be fast heal or...
I think that golem should be able to recover minor damage (as caused by non-epic weapons and spells) immediately, to the point of being almost invulnerable. 40 hitpoints per round sounds reasonable.
Also, the golem due to immense size and weight should be able to cause various effects by simply moving.
Earthquake Step (Ex) - ability to cause minor earthquake by taking a step.
Blinding and Burning Blaze (Ex) - ability to reflect sunlight and focus in a single point of space or spread it into a blinding cone.
Might have to bump up the damage on its slams or Buff the crit stuff maybe.
Unless i'm mistaken (Which is a real possibility) a creature with the grab special ability pretty much counts as haveing The grapple feat. He was only able to hold Kadum because his heart was removed at the time and was greatly weakened.
I figure this is the stats for a ruined mythril golem. I don't see any reason Corean Could not make another one that is complete.
I may stat up a cr 30-ish one that isnt broken.
23 CR golem without self-repair is a sitting duck for any flying wizard (pick a rock, drop a rock from enormous height - 150 feet or more, large rock means range touch attack at 8d6 damage).
That's why I would make the golem capable of performing self-repairs (and add Broken template to make it unable to repair completely).
The number of hitpoints and better saves are important because high level characters can deal in excess of 200 hitpoints per round. Without strong resistances, the golem is just one step away from becoming a huge pile of mithril junk at the hands of some enterprising individual.
Of course, I know it is against guidelines, but if you look at Adamantine Golem (CR four points below Mithril Golem) and the other example (CR only a single point higher), and at Tarrasque's ability to reflect some spells, you'd agree with me.
IMHO, the golem should be an epic, indestructible THING watching impassively over puny people below, like an Eiffel Tower. Or sphinx.
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