I've seen a lot of posts from various people regarding how underpowered NPCs are for their CR. I, personally, think that's a load of crap. At least for PC class NPCs, and even for NPC class ones at low levels.
I've stated this a few times, but nobody's ever responded in any meaningful fashion. Their contempt seems unassailable, and I feel like proving a point. Also, I'm a little bored.
So, I'm putting a challenge out here:
Ask for an NPC of a particular class and level, and I'll build a CR appropriate version of it. You can even specify things (like 'finesse Fighter' or 'Pirate Captain') as long as they aren't completely unreasonable.
Well as long as it's not over 8th level as NPC classes, and doesn't have completely horrible multiclassing on it, anyway (and I'm talking really horrible here, not just less than ideal). I probably won't be working out full spellbooks or anything for these, but at least a fair selection of their current spells will be done.
I get and understand being careful about 5E. Nor am I saying not to be careful. When someone accuses of Woc of wanitng only profit well every other company non-rpg or rpg including this one want to make a profit. Almost like wanting to make a profit is a bad thing or shocked that it happens. Or that without Monte 5E is doomed, It maybe doomed it may not. We don't know. Speculation is all well and good and healthy in some cases. Yet when it's all doom and gloom especially when we don't even have a playtest document is to me being negative for the sake of being negative.
Most level-headed people don't think making a profit off selling games is a bad thing - we want the companies we like to profit, so they keep making more great stuff.
What people do object to, in this industry as in any other, is making a profit not by producing a quality product, but by orchestrating events to artificially create sales without delivering a product of substantial quality.
Let me give you a non-gaming related example: my company sells assistive technology to disabled and elderly individuals. When a sales call is placed to us, the priority for our representatives should be, "What product best fits this person's needs? What will make their day to day living as easy and normal as possible compared to an able-bodied person's?" If we as a company remain focused on that goal, we develop trust by delivering positive results. That trust results in good word-of-mouth reputation for our brand, which in turn means more opportunities to deliver the right product at a profitable price point.
But when those goals become compromised by other agendas, such as the relative commission earned off of an item, or a tracking system that penalizes good sales representatives for delivering the best service at the expense of the more lucrative sale, you begin to lose people's trust. You lose, first, the trust of your employees, because they're being asked to do something that isn't good for the customer they allegedly serve in order to keep their job - and then you lose the trust of your customer, who nine times out of ten will realize, even if it's after the fact, that you sold them not what they needed, but what was most profitable for you. That leads to bad word-of-mouth reputation and, in the long run, decreased conversions and missed sales opportunities.
The relative merits and flaws of 4th Edition D&D are open for debate, but the marketing techniques used to promote it had more in common with a company looking for the quick and easy sale than with a company interested in giving its customers the best product they could. That's not to say that the designers and developers had an ulterior agenda - I don't think they did. But there are a lot of smart people in business today who think it's more important to game the system for short-term gain and grab all the profit they can this quarter, or this year, than to develop a sustained relationship of trust with their customer base and enjoy steady long-term growth as a result. I don't think Hasbro is an exception to this rule. And when you look at the entire picture surrounding that product launch - assaults on principles of open game design, cessation of digital product sales, opaque and oblique channels of communication between the company and its fan base, denigration of established product - it does begin to look as if the emphasis was less on creating a great product and more on engineering a perfect storm in hopes that the waves would wash ashore big profits.
So, with all that in mind, when Wizards says they want to do open playtesting and involve the community and reunite the fan base, I'm all for that. But the process by which they've gone about it is more or less the same thing we saw before up to this point - there's little to no transparency on timelines, their lead designer has left the fold, and they're not doing much of anything to dispel the perception that this playtest phase is anything more than lip service. I want to give them the benefit of the doubt and look at the development of this game in the most positive possible light, but I also don't want to be fooled again.
The really bad part about all this is that if WotC was as straightforward with its customers about their plans going forward as Paizo typically is, I don't think half of these conversations would even be going on right now.
This is also the reason, incidentally, that gamers should support good companies like Troll Lord Games or Paizo that are transparent about what they're developing and eager to respond to customer desires. If the little "good" guys start making more money than the big "bad" ones, eventually that will cause the industry as a whole to shift its priorities back to customer satisfaction and away from marketing trickery.
Wow everyone. Thank you so much for your kind words, everyone. I blush.
*blush*
Seriously, thank you. I'll feel more like I deserve the kind words when I actually get things sorted and put money back in people's accounts.
Me I'm just a hired gun. Nick is the man standing up and making apologies. That's hard stuff.
All that said, I'd like to reiterate that at present I'm making no commitment to putting out RC. It may still never see the light of day. Nick and I are looking into what can be done, but please understand I'm making absolutely no promises.
That said, IF Nick's magnum opus ever comes out, and IF I've any say in the matter, I'll see to it that all pre-orders are honored. That's a precondition of me helping Nick and one he's 100% behind.
IF that day ever comes, RC will be more expensive for new buyers or people who took a refund. The OP has the details for why, etc... But its important to tell everyone that up front.
Thank you all again for being such a great community and being so supportive of my buddy Nick. And for saying such kind things about me. I'm overwhelmed.
I preordered RC way back. I never really got mad about it and still am not. I mean it's only money and there are lots of things in this life that are far more important than money. I was a bit disappointed at the lack of communication though.
I understand depression and all it means, so i completely understand why you dropped off and completely out of sight online. Apology accepted and no hard feelings. Just if you do something like this again. Make sure you get some help on the business side to first. :)
As for the money, as I said it's only money. I don't want it back. If RC see's the light of day someday great. If not consider it a gift or vote of confidence or a pledge of hope to see you one day writing gaming products again, when you feel up to it. Either way I hope life gets better for you and you forgive yourself.
Finished Hirohito and started in on W. Travis Hanes III and Frank Sanello's The Opium Wars. I'm not very far in but already completely disgusted with a whole new Earl of Elgin.
Ah, the Opium Wars. British imperialism at its finest! Not that I have any idea who the Earls of Elgin are, but I bet I hate them.
May I ask you a personal question, Samnell? [Goes ahead and does so without waiting for an answer]
Certainly. You can always PM too if you'd like.
Comrade Anklebiter wrote:
The Question:
What is up with gay dudes and royalty? I have, of course, met homosexual men of a many varieties of political beliefs, but I have also met a larger proportion of either straight-up monarchists or people obsessed with the royalty than in any other of the three demographics you could come up with using gender and orientation. Or at least the main ones.
Anyway, you can ignore this if you like, but if you're game I was wondering if you had any thoughts?
The Answer:
It varies person to person, of course. I can't tell you what motivates straight-up monarchists except to imagine that it's not very flattering. However, I do think fascination with royalty as a sort of hobby has things in common with some other fascinations popular among my fellow Friends of Dorothy. I don't share much of the monarchy interest, except as a generator of trivia and interesting historical sights, but shall confess to being more interested than I've expected to be in a few documentaries about the British royals. (But I was a teenager and William was very cute and only two years younger than me.)
So then, what's the thing? I think one of the very experiences of most gay people in most places and eras down through history is that of being in hiding. It's not quite Anne Frank in the attic, but there is a degree of constant self-policing. One must be careful of what one lets slip, how one behaves, etc to avoid joining the Pink Triangle Society. This is less true now than it has been, if one lives in the right places and moves in the right circles, but probably most of us have done time in the closet or only been out in circumscribed ways that still leave us mindful of appearing too stereotypical for fear that we'll go over someone's line in the sand and make trouble for ourselves. You can't imagine how often I've heard and read people thinking they're being broad minded when they say they don't mind someone being gay "as long as it isn't shoved in my face."
What constitutes shoving it in your face, Mr. Broadminded? Telling you? Holding hands with a guy? Kissing in public? You mean the stuff straight people do without a second thought? Experiencing an unwanted sexual advance? Like women do all the time? Yeah, so anything and everything.
It all adds up to a lot of inhibition. I'm a fat balding guy with a big beard and long hair. When they were handing out the thin blond bodies and body glitter, I must have been elsewhere. But to be completely honest sometimes I wish I was one of the flaming guys back in high school. It would have gone terribly, but I wouldn't have been hiding. I could have said what honestly came to my mind about hot guys or whatever. I could have acted like I actually felt sometimes. (And how often during high school were you thinking about or talking about sex? Pretty much every time you weren't asleep and sometimes then too, right? Same here! :) ) One must always at least have plausible deniability and it's very stressful.
For example, I used to have a friend with whom I joked around had fun with. I'm told this is what ordinary people do with friends too. At lunch once in junior high, on impulse, in the heat of the moment, I threw my arm around his shoulders and said something funny. He acted like I'd tried to cop a feel so I didn't do that again, but it was a Platonic gesture. In fact I didn't do that with anybody else again. I still had the random urge to do so, but it was Not To Be Done. So much for showing friendly affection, eh?
What's that to do with the royalty? Or musical theater? Or Disney? The Royalty is a great big archaic institution with all kinds of fabulous romanticism, pomp, and ceremony about it. They bring out swords and all kinds of jewelry and make Vegas's craziest drag queens look like a bunch of Puritans. A typical protagonist in a musical or a Disney cartoon (pretty much the same character, really) is probably the least inhibited being on earth. Who else would grandly sing out their heart's desires in front of a packed house? It's fantasy, sure. And the royals are loaded down with fantasy tropes, if in a more real world way. They're kings and queens! They have princesses! They live in castles!
We don't all want to be fabulous, but I think that royals, musicals, and Disney flicks (ok, royals and two of a kind) present a kind of happy fantasy where we don't have to deal with all the extra crap of watching what we say and how we act so we can pass and/or avoid more trouble. They're free in a way that many of us are not or have been very far from. That's the Promised Land out there.
There's another angle too. At least in contemporary American culture, all three of the aforementioned are rather girly things. While most of us probably enjoy our genitals just fine the way they are, we already know we don't color inside the lines of officially sanctioned male interest. So there's less personal inhibition to appreciate these things and they can also appeal in a kind of transgressive way. I'm sure there are straight guys who like musical theater and watched the royal wedding, but wouldn't admit it. Such would call their masculinity into question. Ours already is. :)
WoTC, or more accurately Hasbro, hires people to write rules and modules and then releases them to us with a label.
And so does Paizo.
The people that actually write the words change from year to year. The brand doesn't.
The reason 3.0 became so popular came in three parts. First, they got people to real the rules they released because they were a brand people recognized and respected.
Second, the rules they put out were pretty good. Not great, 3.0 was flawed enough that 3.5 followed a few short years later...but pretty good.
And third, and most importantly, the OGL encouraged freelancers. And freelancers are the people who eventually get hired to write the material.
4E is not being replaced because of the first reason. Certainly in 2008 WoTC had the clout to get us all to at least take a look, regardless of how distasteful we found the transition.
4E is not being replaced because of the quality of the rules, which while I personally found to be a major step back weren't completely unpalatable.
4E is being replaced because the people who wrote the rules and the modules in house aren't nearly as good as an open free market of ideas.
Paizo is very small. But they pull from a large pool of writers and artists. They have access to this pool because they pay them money and ask very little in exchange regarding what they do outside of the project they are assigned. If Wolfgang Baur wants to write a competing setting, feel free. If Monte Cook wants to write a module for Paizo then go help design 5E, good for him.
Paizo doesn't care what freelancers do on the side, as long as they put out quality products when paid to do so.
Paizo is what Newt Gingrich wanted from his wife. An open relationship.
WoTC's genius in 2000 when they created the OGL was what made them "The World's Most Popular Role Playing Game."
Who is left from those times? Monte? And only because he was hired to come back.
So what is WoTC? What is the link between the 2012 company and the company that saved the brand when TSR was going under?
It is a label.
While I've heard lip service about the mistakes of the GSL vs OGL, I am skeptical until I see a return.
WoTC could design a brilliant system, but it will be nothing without support. They could address all of our concerns, but it will be nothing without a system that allows evolution to correct the concerns not yet discovered.
And why should we believe that the WoTC team now working will find some panacea every other game developer has missed in the past...including the staff on the team itself.
For now, the d20 system is the best system on the market, in large part because of the available variations and options that exist that have been run through all of our games through the years. It is the reliable truck that gets it done, that every mechanic knows how to work on.
It is they system you can find players for, and you can find GM's to run.
5E still can get people to read it, on brand. Although a lot less will pay for the privilege.
And I have no reason to think that with the devs involved it won't be a decent game, although I also have no reason to think it will be better than anything else they each put out in the past, none of which are better than the current d20 system.
The real question is if they can get the freelance community to come on board and put out quality material because they will have a personal investment in the system beyond a paycheck.
Frankly, I would be a lot more hopeful if the same group was putting it out as a freelance rather than under Hasbro.
Either way, the d20 system has a 12 year head start.
Actually, I think he's saying that Pathfinder's utter reliance on the D&D 3.5/d20 rules means that it's pretty hard to hold the position that Pathfinder and D&D are two completely distinct things. I think that, for 90%+ of people who played D&D 3.5, if you sat them down to play a Pathfinder core game without actually telling them that it was Pathfinder, they'd probably still think they were playing D&D.
Pathfinder relies on it because it is a smart business model.
Pathfinder is D&D for most of us. WoTC bought the brand and abandoned the game.
The reason Pathfinder is successful is because the basics behind the game work, and they realized that the OGL wasn't a problem by a solution. They have more and better adventures and modules specifically because the OGL allows 3PP and freelancers to be able to write for the game without worrying about litigation.
Just because WoTC owns the brand, doesn't mean they own the concept of table top gaming. Pathfinder is 3.51 or 3.75 or however you want to frame it. They have a staff who are skilled at making product for the 3rd edition chassis, because they have been doing it for 11 years now.
Every time you put out a new edition, writers have to learn how to write things that work for that edition. When it is a major revision, that requires a major investment in time and resources, as well as a trial and error period.
Add to that that WoTC basically reserves the right to sue anyone who gets to actually be competitive with them and the fact that Pathfinder is currently outselling them...if I'm writing adventures, I'm not going to write them for the system that is dying (4e) I can't write them for the system that I don't know yet (5e) so I'm writing for Pathfinder.
Even if they get Monte to write, he is only one person. Paizo exists because WoTC got rid of them. Paizo really is D&D in all but brand.
Brand loyalty to a brand that no longer produces the product you are loyal to and no longer have the same staff that made it makes no sense.
I have mixed feelings about the properties changing hands without pre-orders being fully honoured. How do I prove that I haven't received a refund? etc. Also, its very early here but I keep having flashbacks about bona fide purchasers and equity and such wrt to accepting property you know people probably have a claim against.
But I've been marking exams all Christmas so I'm in an Issue spotting frame of mind
Fire as She Bears was never offered for sale and no pre-orders exist; so, Rite Publishing and the esteemed mister Russel are not involved in any pre-order mess.
For the KUG? Well, its sort of like this: Nick stated he was going to put out Razor Coast then shut down. My information indicates this property would never be published, ever.
Nick told me he believes he returned all the pre-order money for this product. I believe he believes that. I'm not in a position to assess the quality of his record keeping.
Since this is a not-for-profit venture on my part, I plan to give anyone who simply tells me they made a pre-order a free PDF of the product. Period. Honor system. Could lots of people "rip me off"? Sure. Do I care? No. So there is no need for anyone to prove anything to me about a refund. You tell me you made a pre-order and didn't receive a refund, I give you a pdf. No questions.
You want the print version? The price will be whatever my cost was to produce the book -- so it doesn't include Nick's art, etc. - not a red cent more. For costs that vary by the number of units sold, I'll apportion them across a low number of units on a per unit basis. Not sure what that number of units will be, but I'll publish it in advance.
My goal is to price the print volume more cheaply than the early price, at the same time that the size of the book has tripled. By not making a profit, I hope to set the price such that a person who pre-ordered and then also buys the new POD book receives a book at a combined reasonable price. Not sure if that made sense, so here's an example:
If my new KUG book is worth paying $20 for at market, and the pre-order price for Nick's version was $11, then I plan to try my best to hit no more $9 for the new book (if per unit cost is $8, then its $8). That way if a pre-order person buys both, they still receive solid value for their money -- despite buying twice. Will I succeed at this attempt? No idea yet. Does this plan make sound, for-profit business sense? Nope. Not a lick. And not the point.
Side note: those numbers above are not the prices, just an example. I simply don't know what the price will be yet.
Will I be totally transparent along the way and try to provide people an independent means to verify what I'm doing? Sure will. Maybe access to whatever invoice the POD of choice gives me? Not sure yet, but I will try to figure it out as I go.
A game changer will be if Nick provides me with his paypal records and, in the event he is mistaken, any money he took for the KUG. Then I can simply honor the pre-orders.
I'm willing to pour time and sweat into this. I'm willing to call in favors, and I'm even willing to lay out some of my own money -- despite having neither an ethical or legal obligation of any sort to do so -- because I think the creative value is there and the sweating writers at least deserve their audience. I'm also haunted by the lack of creative closure. However, I'm not willing to create an open funnel into my wallet and take a bath for trying to pitch in.
Here's the alternative: I'll give this back and people can keep chasing Nick. If that emerges as a consensus on this thread, I can absolutely go that route. The absolute worst darn thing would be to further anger or disappoint the very fans and good Paizoans I'm hoping to please!
I hope that plan (such as it is) makes sense. If there are logical flaws in the approach or any issue that occurs to any of you, please share. I'm very open to whatever helps me get this right.
PS The difference between versions (the original Nick took pre-orders for and the one I plan to put out) will simply be more material by the same authors. A lot more.
PPS This will definitely be an art-lite book, but if anyone knows a cartographer good with Astrosynthesis or space mapping in general, please let me know :)
The background of the big announcement goes all the way back to 1978, when I read a small book by Gary Gygax detailing the use of outdoor and wilderness adventures in D&D. This book, along with what has affectionately been termed the “Skull Dungeon” of John Holmes fame, formed the basis of my thinking when I began to write my own vast dungeon that I called Rappan Athuk.
A decade ago, I released the first few levels of Rappan Athuk as a book, which was followed by a series of releases of different parts and pieces (29 levels in the first 3 books, and another 7 or so later in Rappan Athuk Reloaded).
To my surprise, even though I expected it to be a success, Rappan Athuk turned out to be one of the major hits of the Third Edition decade. Even though it’s not the largest dungeon that was ever published (it might be this time!), it quickly picked up a reputation for being one of the deadliest, and if you haven’t heard, “Don’t go down the Well” or “Beware of Purple Worms,” you probably weren’t attending gaming conventions or reading the RPG internet during the Third Edition years.
Rappan Athuk Reloaded, which contained a lot more of the original dungeon, became an immediate collector’s item. With only 1000 copies of Rappan Athuk’s expanded version in existence, many players unfortunately could never get a copy. This was probably fortunate for a lot of player characters, but it means that many people who wanted to see the dungeon’s broader scope never got to see what they were missing.
Well, it’s been almost 10 years since I wrote the last few chapters of Rappan Athuk Reloaded. As you would expect, I haven’t been idle during that time. In fact, over the last few hundred gaming sessions I’ve run, I have continued to write up my notes from levels that were never published, and add new levels as adventurers continued to explore. Many of the mid-level areas have been fleshed out (the ultimate adversaries, of course, remained the same), and several new upper levels have been added as adventurers avoided “The Well” and “The Mausoleum” in attempts to delve deeper into Rappan Athuk’s depths. I have been mulling over what to do to get this monster out to all of you. So here goes…
Weighing in with over 50 dungeon levels and dozens of wilderness areas, Rappan Athuk will be released next summer as a hardbound, library-stitched book in both Pathfinder and Swords and Wizardry formats. The book contains 18 more levels even than Rappan Athuk Reloaded, as well as the outdoor adventures supporting them. I am also working on a leather cover (or faux leather) for the binding.
This thing is truly the granddaddy of all dungeons. It represents years of play testing, years of adventure, and hundreds of player character deaths. Many parts of my campaign that have transpired over the years are included in its pages from the dead remains of fallen heroes, to marks left on walls, to cryptic scribblings left by lost or dying adventurers.
Just like the dungeons of the early 1970s played by Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson, Rappan Athuk is like a living being, big enough to be used for thousands of hours of play. From the Goblin city of Greznek to the Hall of the Titan Cyclops, from the Well of Zelkor to the Mithril gates, and from the Well of Agamemnon to the Abyssal pocket-plain and to the throne of Orcus himself—this terrifying place will create memorable experiences for all players and Game Masters.
This Tome represents the completed manuscript, including the wilderness surrounding the dungeon, three villages nearby, and the dreaded Temple of Tsathogga, where the sinister, evil priests of the frog-demon seek dark secrets and dark powers lost when the army of light destroyed the temple of Orcus at the site.
This book will be available for pre-order in March or April 2012. Retail price and page count are still to be determined (though it will probably be about $125 and 1000 pages or so). The pre-ordered copies will contain bonus material as a pdf enhancement that were cut from the final manuscript and will not be available after the pre-order period ends.
So once again, in this new decade of gaming, we will have the chance to say, “Don’t go down the Well.”
Paizo are not required to adhere to the terms of that license to publish Pathfinder branded items. This is because the choice of how close to the wind they want to sail is solely in their hands. They can't allow other people wanting to use the Pathfinder logo the same level of freedom.
I don't disagree with you; it is their license and product that they can deem to do as fit if companies may wish to be compatible with it and thus comply accordingly. They reserve the right to be the curator of the standards they want to protect the integrity of the brand and to ensure that it does not become tarnished. Product identity. I get it.
Saying that, I'm merely pointing out the irony.
Orc rape and gratuitous violence is alright, but some succubus showing a little skin isn't? It's as silly as the whole farcical media brouhaha over the Janet Jackson nipple slip during Super Bowl halftimes, but during prime-time television viewing, we can expect people being tortured and killed in various manners of violence - and apparently that's okay.
And before anyone wants to fire back with some argumentum ad hominem or a Chewbacca defense (or point out that what is said textually is different from what is shown visually), it is an observable concession that Paizo takes more of a liberal position with regard to their politics (mind you, that is more of a reflection on the staff who speaks up versus the company in general, so I'm aware of the distinction) and in their manner of moderation in comparison to other RPG social community bulletin boards that caters to similar audiences.
I sincerely doubt that the boys from SGG was going to release a product that went all F.A.T.A.L. on us. If anything; all this (undue?) attention to the project will probably spur more attention to see what the fuss was about and clamor for pieces of the original product to be released w/o the Pathfinder Compatibility License -- a free web enhancement if it could be called. Hey, controversy creates $ale$, right? If that's the case, it couldn't happen to a better bunch of guys. :)
I'm not changing my buying habits (note the subscriber status) or decrying 'Paizo iz ebil' or anything; I'm not one of those trolls who seem to come here purely for the detraction of threadcrapping on PF's 'brokenedness' w/o offering a solution or their own product to counter it and put their money where their mouths are. I'm simply stating my opinion on what I view to be an inconsistency. Demonstrate some practices to back up those enforced standards. C'est la vie.
P.S. It does make me wonder when we see the hardcover anniversary edition of ROTR, will that section in the AP be omitted or toned down -or- will it be retained in its original scope of the story arc?
P.P.S. And since Owen's a good guy, this is all I'm going to say on the topic.
Take 10 solves a lot of the multiple-roll problem for both Perception and Stealth. For what it's worth, I use those static numbers to give me hard numbers when judging encounter distances in MapTool, and the results are very consistent. Why, you can even establish the set distance that the rest of the party needs to keep from the rogue to share a DC, which is terrific!
Several new bytes--Delays in print books (printer had mechanical issues) on Tsar 9. Tsar 10 is in editing, Tome pdfs are done, and will start being sold on Tuesday or so. I am all caught up on shipments (except Tsar 9 individual books, sorry), and 6 new books are at the printer. Tome should be back to me in late August, and I will start shipping it out as soon as I get it (be patient, I have a LOT of boxes to pack). In other news...I am pleased to announce for a late fall release:
THE BLACK MONASTERY
Way back in 1977, a bunch of the older kids I knew taught me how to play Dungeons and Dragons. Quickly this evolved into myself and one other guy, Scott Stabbert, being the primary DMs. Thus was born Rappan Athuk (my main campaign hub, maps originally drawn by Scott), the dungeon adventures from Demons and Devils, and many of the other adventures I have published or planned to publish over the last 12 years.
Scott’s game contained many gems. In fact, I have a 48 inch by 48 inch framed watercolor map of his world on my wall as I write this. That being said, none of his work (and all those excellent adventures I played in in high school) has ever been published. Except one.
In 1981, with some help from a few of our friends and the kindhearted folks at the local newspaper, Scott and I laid out typeset text on wax paper (in the old days, you did layout this way) on lighted boards. Then Scott spent his meager savings to print maybe 20 copies of a 100 or so page book called “The Black Monestery(sic)”. Scott never could spell worth a darn. He sold a couple copies to the local Weird Pete (called Triple Alliance), and proceeded to join the Navy and disappear for a few years. We have loosely kept in touch over the last 25 years, but have not seen each other since about 1989 or so.
A few months ago, someone on the Acaeum website was talking about this “cool old school DIY published book” his brother in law’s brother (reminded me of the Conan 2 Movie “brother’s sister’s cousin” line) had given him. Imagine my surprise when I found out that Mark Shipley’s sister had married Scott’s brother and that Mark and I lived in the same town (along with Kevin bacon I am beginning to think). I think Mark and I maybe have the only two surviving copies of the original. So we met for beers, called Scott and obtained permission to republish the work.
Mark frantically started rewriting (the spelling alone musty have taken a week!), and I started making plans on how to give this baby the love it deserved. You must understand, I played (a lot) in this dungeon (haunted house really). It has special meaning to me as one of my earliest D&D experiences. Lord Bakar Yan my 18/53 (on 3d6 mind you, the only 18 I ever had on a character!) strength 5th level fighter was the sole survivor of the encounter in the crypt, I recall running in terror from the titan in the courtyard, and the mysterious Cimota I never quite figured out until I read the book.
So here you have it. The first book I ever helped publish back in 1981. The flavor of this thing is similar to Tegel Manor, on steroids. Originally written by the guy who taught me how to run a game, and rewritten by Mark Shipley to meet today’s standards. This book will include a large fold out map of the Monastery, and will be in limited edition Smythe-bound hardcover, as well as pdf and (later) softcover versions. Only the hardcover will include the fold out map.
I spent way too much on new art (Rowena did an amazing job), and Chuck has done a fantastic job making it a truly superior product. Robert’s maps are big, detailed and highly functional, and Skeeter and Matt did a great job making sure I got the rules right. Dawn will be editing the final, as will I, to ensure its as near perfect as we can get it. Just about the whole company contributed to the success of the “boss’s pet project”.
The Classic Style
The Black Monastery is presented in the spirit of fun typical of the classic, “old school” gaming style. It is an adventure in the classic style because it follows the design assumptions that were common in many publications and local campaigns during the early days of Dungeons and Dragons. In the classic era, the dungeon master was the final authority and was assumed to have complete control. Every event did not have to have a complete rationalization, formula or rules explanation. Mysterious phenomena, riddles and surprises were the norm. This module assumes that the dungeon master will take control and mold it to his campaign.
In a classic game, monsters might be stronger or weaker without having to figure out why. For unknown reasons, Flinds were the only creatures capable of wielding nunchaku. Qullan would die before revealing the special techniques for sharpening their broadswords. Piercers would wait most of their lives just to drop on adventurers and spend the next month crawling back up the wall after a miss. Skeletons always did 1d6 damage no matter what weapons they wielded. Rust monsters made sense. Orcs and gnolls would live next door to each other in dungeons that were essentially monster hotels and no one worried about why. In one of the classic modules by Judges Guild a single giant rat in a group of two dozen had 26 hit points because a typist made a mistake and that was okay – one of the rats was just really big.
Classic play usually assumed that monsters and player characters would follow standard archetypes. Magic-users always had white beards and pointy hats. Barbarians always wore rags and enormous fur boots. Paladins were noble and saintly. Fighters wore plate mail. Thieves climbed walls…a lot. Clerics were vaguely like Catholic priests gone bad, and they always chanted in Latin. All dwarves acted just like Gimli. All elves acted just like Legolas. Monsters were generally cheerful about their roles, including Norse berserkers who rated their own listing in the AD&D Monster Manual because they wandered around underground quite a bit, looking for player characters to fight.
In The Black Monastery, evil priests have left behind a large number of magical items and effects. They left poems and messages for intruders. They posted guardians that parade around chanting. They spawned ghostly effects that cannot be explained. Pictures are still hanging on walls. Dishes are rattling in the kitchen. Kobolds have decided a dungeon is a good place to roast a pig. Magic globes float in the air, waiting to explode. Statues perform strange, magical acts for no particular reason. Why? Who knows? All of that is okay. Explanations of these magical and monstrous events are provided from time to time, but they don’t really matter. The point is to have fun running about looting the place and trying to survive.
The Legend of the Black Monastery
Two centuries have passed since the terrible events associated with the hideous cult known as the Black Brotherhood. Only scholars and story-tellers remember now how the kingdom was nearly laid to waste and the Black Monastery rose to grandeur and fell into haunted ruins.
The Brothers first appeared as an order of benevolent priests and humble monks in black robes who followed a creed of kindness to the poor and service to the kingdom. Their rules called for humility and self denial. Other religious orders had no quarrel with their theology or their behavior. Their ranks grew as many commoners and nobles were drawn to the order by its good reputation.
The first headquarters for the order was a campsite, located in a forest near the edge of the realm. The Brothers said that their poverty and dedication to service allowed them no resources for more grand accommodations. Members of the Black Brotherhood built chapels in caves or constructed small temples on common land near villages. They said that these rustic shrines allowed them to be near the people they served. Services held by the Brothers at these locations attracted large numbers of common people, who supported the Black Brotherhood with alms.
Within 50 years of their first appearance, the Black Brotherhood had a number of larger temples and abbeys around the kingdom. Wealthy patrons endowed them with lands and buildings in order to buy favor and further the work of the Brothers. The lands they gained were slowly expanded as the order’s influence grew. Many merchants willed part of their fortunes to the Black Brotherhood, allowing the order to expand their work even further. The Brothers became bankers, loaning money and becoming partners in trade throughout the kingdom. Within 200 years of their founding, the order was wealthy and influential, with chapters throughout the kingdom and spreading into nearby realms.
With their order well-established, the Black Brotherhood received royal permission to build a grand monastery in the hill country north of the kingdom’s center. Their abbot, a cousin of the king, asked for the royal grant of a specific hilltop called the Hill of Mornay. This hill was already crowned by ancient ruins that the monks proposed to clear away. Because it was land not wanted for agriculture, the king was happy to grant the request. He even donated money to build the monastery and encouraged others to contribute. With funds from around the realm, the Brothers completed their new monastery within a decade. It was a grand, sprawling edifice built of black stone and called the Black Monastery.
From the very beginning, there were some who said that the Black Brotherhood was not what it seemed. There were always hints of corruption and moral lapses among the Brothers, but no more than any other religious order. There were some who told stories of greed, gluttony and depravity among the monks, but these tales did not weaken the order’s reputation during their early years. All of that changed with the construction of the Black Monastery.
Within two decades of the Black Monastery’s completion, locals began to speak of troubling events there. Sometimes, Brothers made strange demands. They began to cheat farmers of their crops. They loaned money at ruinous rates, taking the property of anyone who could not pay. They pressured or even threatened wealthy patrons, extorting money in larger and larger amounts. Everywhere, the Black Brotherhood grew stronger, prouder and more aggressive. And there was more…
People began to disappear. The farmers who worked the monastery lands reported that some people who went out at night, or who went off by themselves, did not return. It started with individuals…people without influential families…but soon the terror and loss spread to even to noble households. Some said that the people who disappeared had been taken into the Black Monastery, and the place slowly gained an evil reputation. Tenant farmers began moving away from the region, seeking safety at the loss of their fields.
Slowly, even the king began to sense that the night was full of new terrors. Across the kingdom, reports began to come in telling of hauntings and the depredations of monsters. Flocks of dead birds fell from clear skies, onto villages and city streets. Fish died by thousands in their streams. Citizens reported stillborn babies and monstrous births. Crops failed. Fields were full of stunted plants. Crimes of all types grew common as incidents of madness spread everywhere. Word spread that the center of these dark portents was the Black Monastery, where many said the brothers practiced necromancy and human sacrifice. It was feared that the Black Brotherhood no longer worshipped gods of light and had turned to the service of the Dark God.
These terrors came to a head when the Black Brotherhood dared to threaten the king himself. Realizing his peril, the king moved to dispossess and disband the Black Brother hood. He ordered their shrines, abbeys and lands seized. He had Brothers arrested for real and imagined crimes. He also ordered investigations into the Black Monastery and the order’s highest ranking members.
The Black Brotherhood did not go quietly. Conflict between the order and the crown broke into violence when the Brothers incited their followers to riot across the kingdom. There were disturbances everywhere, including several attempts to assassinate the king by blades and by dark sorcery. It became clear to everyone that the Black Brotherhood was far more than just another religious order. Once knives were drawn, the conflict grew into open war between the crown and the Brothers.
The Black Brotherhood had exceeded their grasp. Their followers were crushed in the streets by mounted knights. Brothers were rounded up and arrested. Many of them were executed. Armed supporters of the Black Brotherhood, backed by arcane and divine magic, were defeated and slaughtered. The Brothers were driven back to their final hilltop fortress – the Black Monastery. They were besieged by the king’s army, trapped and waiting for the king’s forces to break in and end the war.
The final assault on the Black Monastery ended in victory and disaster. The king’s army took the hilltop, driving the last of the black-robed monks into the monastery itself. The soldiers were met by more than just men. There were monsters and fiends defending the monastery. There was a terrible slaughter on both sides. In many places the dead rose up to fight again. The battle continued from afternoon into night, lit by flames and magical energy.
The Black Monastery was never actually taken. The king’s forces drove the last of their foul enemies back inside the monastery gates. Battering rams and war machines were hauled up the hill to crush their way inside. But before the king’s men could take the final stronghold, the Black Brotherhood immolated themselves in magical fire.
Green flames roared up from the monastery, engulfing many of the king’s men as well. As survivors watched, the Black Monastery burned away, stones, gates, towers and all. There was a lurid green flare that lit the countryside. There was a scream of torment from a thousand human voices. There was a roar of falling masonry and splitting wood. Smoke and dust obscured the hilltop. The Black Monastery collapsed in upon itself and disappeared. Only ashes drifted down where the great structure had stood. All that was left of the Black Monastery was its foundations and debris-choked dungeons cut into the stones beneath. The war was over. The Black Brotherhood was destroyed.
But the Black Monastery was not gone forever. Over nearly two centuries since its destruction, the Black Monastery has returned from time to time to haunt the Hill of Mornay. Impossible as it seems, there have been at least five incidents in which witnesses have reported finding the Hill of Mornay once again crowned with black walls and slate-roofed towers. In every case, the manifestation of this revenant of the Black Monastery has been accompanied by widespread reports of madness, crime and social unrest in the kingdom. Sometimes, the monastery has appeared only for a night. The last two times, the monastery reappeared atop the hill for as long as three months…each appearance longer than the first.
There are tales of adventurers daring to enter the Black Monastery. Some went to look for treasure. Others went to battle whatever evil still lived inside. There are stories of lucky and brave explorers who have survived the horrors, returning with riches from the fabled hordes of the Black Brotherhood. It is enough to drive men mad with greed – enough to lure more each time to dare to enter the Black Monastery.
Weird question, but am I alone in wanting to see nudes in pathfinder artwork.
Before I go on, I am not asking paizo to change anything, nor do I expect them too, but I am interested to know if I am the only one who feels that nudity along with a slightly more frank dealing with themes of sex, relationships, love,and lust within pathfinder products would be a welcome thing. Classical art and myth, as well as good chunk of fiction from through out the ages has included theses things. Seeing Pathfinder as a product really fairly squarely aimed at adults, it seems incongruous that these subjects are avoided.
I mean, I am old enough to drink, vote and make informed decisions. Genitalia do not offend me, nude studies are among many of my favourite works of art, and I can see the odd one fitting well into Pathfinder products. In the same vain, I can see stories about, lust, sex and bigotry being an interesting and vibrant addition to the Pallet used by in the pathfinder adventure paths and modules.
My copy arrived a few weeks ago, and while I've got it tucked away safely I got curious about the signatures and decided take a couple snap shots to work from.
I'd appreciate any help in getting these blanks figured out.
1. F. Wesley Schneider
2. Mark Moreland
3.
4. James Jacobs
5. Erik Mona
6. Wayne Reynolds
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8. Sean K Reynolds
9. Vic Wertz
10. Stephen Radney-Macfarland
11. Rob McCreary
12. Liz Courts
13. ?????
14. Jason Bulmahn
15. Sarah Robinson
16. Judy Bauer
17.
18. James L. Sutter
19. Crystal Frasier
20.
21.
22.
23. Sara Marie
24.
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