rmbrodeu's page

Everybody at Paizo has been using our books since shortly before they were released in August—and some of us had samples even before that. Many of us use our copies daily; some even cart them back and forth between work and game sessions and home on a regular basis. Some of the copies we have have probably seen more wear-and-tear than any other copies of the books out there. We also spent time *abusing* early samples in the months leading up to the release, and even with all that, we've only seen this particular problem once, in a copy that was dropped from table height to land directly on the edge of the spine.

Now, I'm not saying that those of you having problems have necessarily done that, but it *does* mean that when it comes to this problem, there's no way for us to differentiate between a book that has seen normal use and one that has been abused. Offering to replace them, then, would be pretty much the same as saying that we'll replace *any* copy of the book, for any reason. If we did that, I guarantee that every time we come out with a new printing with new errata, we'd get a sudden uptick in "faulty" books being returned, and that's just not something we can afford to do. And let's be frank here—I'm not aware of *any* publisher whose books come with a lifetime guarantee.

But the bottom line is that the bigger a book is, and the more it sees use, the more likely it is to suffer these sorts of issues eventually. Take a trip to your local used bookstore, especially if you've got one that has a lot of used college textbooks; you'll probably find evidence to back me up.

Again, you point the blame elsewhere instead of at the company itself. I do not even blame the printer manufacturer because YOU chose them and decided to go with a cheap binding. And to back up your claim, I have about 40 college books and text books. About five of those see extreme use and have lasted quite some time and are still fine. I am sure these companies used higher quality printers which equates to a better book than what you have presented. I understand issues arise with products, failure rates, etc... But you are denying a problem outright by saying, "Isolated incident, do not abuse your book." Take a little responsibility is all I have to say.

It is great that everyone at Paizo has had there books for quite some time and has seen no issues except for one dropped book. However, I do not care about your personal books because even if you did have problems it is not like you would post them here. I am sure that means you must be satisfied with what you have as a product. In hindsight, I am satisfied with the actual material in the book, not the quality of the book. I think I have displayed this point during this thread.

I could go on, and on. But whats the point? Nobody likes to argue a point with a company anyways because it is quite pointless to do so. You have quite adequately displayed your position and I am sure you will have a secret pow wow on Monday to talk about the issue with little resolve.

-RB

Hey,

Now that I have time to sit down and post something on the issue, I will.

First of all, I am complaining here now because the response from Paizo is disturbing to say the least. Basically you blamed me over use of the book as the fault because you put the book bindings through extensive testing. If my using of the core rulebook so far has been extensive, then I fear for the worst with all of your products, all of which I enjoy and have no problems with but this. I should have complained earlier perhaps but I was not sure if there was anything wrong with the book until it became quite clear that the binding is pretty much shot. The amount of time I have had to check whether my product is faulty seems reasonable for the product. I did not even use it in October, and November due to lack of time to play the game and I only use it for gaming once every other week.

The goods were faulty on purchase, and do not try to fob me by telling me that the printing manufacturer is at fault, its wrong. I expected satisfactory quality as described and fit for purpose to last a reasonable amount of time. Less than six months is not a reasonable amount of time. I know it is easy to create an argument over whether the goods were faulty or not, and I would have to prove it because obviously you have already specified it is my "greater than the normal wear and tear" that has caused my binding problem.

I do not understand why you did not provide consumers with enough appropriate information to make intelligent and informed product choices by mentioning binding problems. Product information provided by a business should always be complete and truthful.

Now that said, I know you are a business that is out to make a profit and it most likely means little to you if you did lose me as a customer. I would hope that is not true, but the real truth is that it is probably true from what I have seen from Paizo employees here in this post. I am more of a pimple on your rear end, if even that. Losing my business would mean little.

I started this initial thread to see if there was a solution to the problem at hand. Some of the posts that followed seemed to strike a nerve in me. Am I angry? I am slightly. I have purchased many products from Paizo and I like the quality of all of the products I have, especially the AP's. The size of the book most likely caused the issues with this product. If it lasted 3,4, even 2 years I would not have cared. But less than six months and failure is imminent...

Thanks for the time and understanding,
-RB

MisterSlanky wrote:

rmbrodeu wrote:

I would expect that response from most companies, I just wanted to see how Paizo will deal with it and if they care besides a post where they mention that they have flaws in there book and it happens, sorry.

No offense meant, but I think you're looking for more than to "see how Paizo will deal with it". Your brand-new 1 star review of the Core Rulebook which pretty much only says "the binding sucks" kind of makes me question your real motives.

That all being said, directly to Cosmo's response, I do have to agree with the complaints that this isn't being addressed in the best way. A thread that goes from zero to even ten posts in a day would indicate that there may likely be a problem you may not have accounted for or noticed to a meaningful degree yet, especially when we're only six months out. I know there's a slim chance that there's anything you can do about it as RPG books are notoriously bad in the biding department (and I'm not even going to mention the binding on my Dragon Compendium...oh wait, I just did). I guess the biggest problem with the response is labeling it isolated at this time; you might have wanted to wait a little while longer before making that call. Frankly, I'm scared to death to pull out my signed first edition now because of this and the already bad looking binding on mine.

MisterSlanky, just for your info, the Dragon Compendium and the RPG were printed by different companies in different countries so there's no correlation between the two books. Sometimes bindings just fail.

And we are calling this an isolated incident because the 30 or so folks that have posted in this thread represent much less than 1% of the total books printed.

I understand that there are failure rates and percentages with all new products. I am an engineer so I definitly understand this. I was just expecting less of a corporate response from Paizo. Basically it goes like this: Sorry, we have failure rates with products but is an isolated incidence. Better to say that you do not care because you are not going to do anything about it. It is your problem.

Oh dude, don't use normal scotch tape when ya repair. I did that once, not a good ideal. Check some craft stores for non-acidic tape. And some paper glue as I said above.

Sad fact is guys with a print run of thousands there will be some flawed copy's. My Wod book was owned 6 months, never used it play and still smelled new when 12 pages popped out. It sucks, but it happens.

So stick it to the customers with your flawed copies when one of the main focus's in the quality was to ensure a high quality binding. I would expect that response from most companies, I just wanted to see how Paizo will deal with it and if they care besides a post where they mention that they have flaws in there book and it happens, sorry.

Hey folks,

I just wanted to drop in and thank you all for letting us know about these issues. Before we ever chose our printer, we put sample books through extensive testing to see how well they would hold up over time. Judging from the very small number of reports we've received here and otherwise, it seems that these are pretty isolated incidences resulting from greater than the normal wear and tear.

Thanks,
cos

Hey,

I am so excited that if I want to continue to play PathFinder with my rulebook in the next few months, I can spend money to repair it, or I can spend 50 USD to buy a new one and hope I can six months use out of it as well. Hope the rest of your products I have last longer than this one or can I expect to be buying another bestiary 1 in about 5 months?

Thanks for the great high caliber players handbook.

I have a first printing, and it just died today. The binding detached top to bottom at the last page of the index (575). The cover is still attached securely in the front of the book, and the pages are not lose, but the cover is completely disconnected along the backside. I'm kind of bummed over it. It did see hard use, but no more than my Ptolus book which seems to be made out of adamantite.

Yeah. That is what is going to happen to the front of my book and it has seen what I would call "Moderate use." The back of my book looks okay as I examine it now but the front is definitely going to rip out. Probably has a couple more weeks before total melt down. It is so obvious the book is going to crap out. If I flip to the middle of the book, like page 300, you can see all the way through the binding because it separates so much and the pages lean out of the cover.

Vic Wertz wrote:

Andrew Phillips wrote:

first printing August 2009.

But I would have noticed the problem, at least for a while, had I not read this thread. The binding seems OK but the cover is seperating the rest of the bound pages.

For customer service:I intend to purchase another copy when the thrid printing is availible, I am just commenting here to provide feedback for Paizo in case you are tracking the number of books with problems.

One thing I'd like to be clear on—the fabric strip to which each signature is bound is not supposed to be glued to the spine itself on anybody's copy. So that's not a sign that the cover is separating—it's just the way it is. (Does that knowledge change anybody's feedback?)

Sort off. I noticed there was a loose thin peice of fabric between the spine and the heavy fabric strip that the signatures are glued too, although it doesn't appear to indicate any problem. The seperation I see is where the paper of the inside cover is glued to the card board of the cover, and this seperation is near the binding.

Of the four corners near the binding two of them seem fine one is seperating and the other is beginng to seperate. Thats the best description I can give, if you really want I could send you a pic. BUT, as I said in my previous I plan to buy a third printing copy just for the included errata

I have something similar to this. The pages hang well past the cover of the book as well. I investigated my friends who just received his last week and could see the difference. And the table of contents/ credits page is where it is going to rip out.

Can those of you who are currently having issues let us know whether you have 1st Printing or 2nd Printing editions? You'll find the printing enumerated at the bottom of the credits page, just above "Printed in China."

Hey,

Mine says the following:

First Printing August 2009.
Printed in China.

-RB

Hmm in thinking about it, reverse gravity does not force those in it to "be upside down". It would still be difficult to use ranged weapons given the inverted gravity and fighting with melee weapons would be like fighting on your back or stomach on the floor, so you still would not be very effective with them. But whatever. I mainly wanted to correct my mistake above. Think "levitate with nothing to push against" and you still have a good idea of the condition of those affected for determining what they can or cannot do.

Thanks for the information. It was helpful.

-RB

Paladin wands of 1st level are 1500 GP to buy at base level and the cleric lesser restoration wand of 2nd level is 4500 GP. These are base prices. Not sure where you got the 750 GP from but on page 496 in gives you the prices in the pathfinder core book. Paladin first level scrolls are at a base price of 50 gp, so I don't know how you are crafting them for 12.5 GP each either.

If the target of a reverse gravity spell does not hit a ceiling and cannot fly in anyway, does it just oscillate until the spell ends making it unable to act? Can the creature cast spells or fire ranged weapons and can it move at all?

thanks

rmbrodeu wrote:

Hello,

Is anyone else having problems with the binding on the Pathfinder's massive core rulebook? It seems mine is going to give out any second and all the pages are going to detach from the cover. This happening with anyone else? Can some kind of adhesive be added to the binding to make it more secure?

--Thanks

Ok This happened to a few pages of my WOD core book. What I did was got some paper adhesive and some wax paper, carefully removed the page that as almost out anyway{12 page section and a one page} and using the wax paper so they could not stick to other pages, glued the back of the page, firmly set it into the binding and closed the book with a bit of weight on it.

In 30 mins it was fine, one page sticks out a wee little bit where I did not get it in as good as I should have book the book is very usable.

Make sure you get the correct type of Adhesive) for this however

Is there any specific brand of adhesive substance? I am assuming you mean, don't squirt gorilla glue down the binding :). I am hoping that the customer representatives try to help me out as well with this as I am still awaiting a reply from them.

i hope i use mine enough to make it fall apart! i think this is why the original design was 3 books, i will one day when it falls apart will punch holes in it and put it in a giant binder,

After paying fifty dollars and getting about 1/2 years use out of it, the last thing I want is the damn book to fall apart. I want a solution and maybe adding adhesive is the best solution seeing none of the customer reps are responding to the issue.

Hello,

For the area of these spells it says 10 foot cubes, shapeable. Some people have posted that for the spell firestorm the cube has to start adjacent to the caster, and each subsequent cube has to be touching the cube placed before it. Is this true because I cannot find anything that says this is true in the core rulebook. Can you shape this spell in anyway you want? Does the same thing hold true for reverse gravity?

Also, if you create the reverse gravity area and there is no ceiling, but open sky, do they keep oscillating at the top and they cannot move because they are just oscillating unless they can fly or levitate. Can they still act if they are oscillating or move?
--THanks

Any solution for this? I hope this is not a shrug of the shoulders from Paizo.

--Ryan B

My bestiary is good. I think the binding of the core rulebook suffers from the large amount of pages. It is just frustrating because it has not even been a year yet and its going to crap out on me.

My core rulebook seems like the book is gonna detach from the cover eventually, but my bestiary is still in near perfect condition.

Hello,

Is anyone else having problems with the binding on the Pathfinder's massive core rulebook? It seems mine is going to give out any second and all the pages are going to detach from the cover. This happening with anyone else? Can some kind of adhesive be added to the binding to make it more secure?

--Thanks

Hello,

Under the teleport, and dimension door spell descriptions it says that a target that has an item in his hand or is using an item the object must make a will save. Does this mean that if the object fails a will save then it is not teleported with the caster but the person is? Is this referring to an unwilling target that must make a will save to be teleported with you? Confused about when it says the object must make a will save on these spell descriptions.

For the Phase Door spell, why can you not just teleport past it every time or is this not allowed? I see nothing in the spell description that says you can't do this assuming you have access to the spells.

-Thanks

Where is this chat?

Hey,

Is there a way to avoid being stunned, through a spell of something?
Does Freedom of Movement prevent stun?

The specific stun effect I was wondering about is in Curse of the Crimson Throne, Crow of Fangs. When they face the horned demon in the castle I was wondering if wielding Serithial(Freedom of Movement) would prevent that character from being stunned. If not, is there a way to avoid being stunned, short of making the fortitude save?

--Thanks

I knew something good would come of this. I now know that F5 is the refresh button! What wonders this thread has created.

RB

Strange things going on in here. Are you all possessed by some kind of mind rotting demon for you have all truly gone mad! MAD I SAY!

RB

Hey Everyone,

Here are some rules clarifications I would like you to assist me with.

1) The cleric domain Liberation from Desna says that the ability Freedoms Call prevents allies from being affected by the grapple condition. First I am assuming that this does not include you but only your allies within range. Second, does that mean you can still be grappled by a monster by you are not affected by the grapple condition or that you cannot be grappled at all and if you are currently grappled you are freed?
Now the freedom of movement spell. Does that also make it so you cannot physically be grappled by monsters or just through magical effects that try to grapple you?

I answered my other questions.

Help with this would be appreciated.
Thanks
RB

YES! The people at Paizo like me so much they are sending me a signed copy of the book already!

Oh wait...that was a dream I had!

Interesting. I have read through part of Second Darkness, beginning two adventures in PDF form, and I will now check out Legacy of Fire a little more.

I did notice that it seems like Second Darkness was rushed to meet various deadlines from what I have read. I wonder if that impacted some of the quality of the product.

-Ryan B

I have read both and played neither.

While researching which AP to run with my group I looked at everything CoCT through CoT. General consensus was that Second Darkness is the worst AP out so far (which doesn't mean it's bad per se, just sub-par). On the other hand, Legacy of Fire is (by many who have played and run it) one of the best APs so far (well written and fun).

I'd read through both paying particular attention to the last few (that's where Second Darkness starts to fall pretty flat).

Hello Everyone,

I am finishing up as GM for Curse of the Crimson Throne. We had a lot of fun and as long as I am nice I will not kill the party completely in Castle Korvosa. I was wondering what campaign people enjoyed enjoyed more, Second Darkness or Legacy of Fire and what you would prefer to play in if you had a choice. I was going to be running Rise of the Rune Lords but I have had no success tracking down Burnt Offering.

Let me here your thoughts. Second Darkness looks like fun because of the dark elf aspect of the entire campaign especially seeing I am a fan of RA Salvatore novels. Legacy of Fire looks enjoyable because of the Rovagug theme and the exotic desert setting.

Let me know your thoughts.

-Ryan B

Hey,

I have one comment to you Mr. Jacobs in true Darth Vader style,"You have failed me for the last time." Joking, of course. Thanks for all of the input everyone. I figured as much already. When searching through eBay and Amazon people post ridiculous prices for these books. I have seen them for 40 - 120 USD per book! All is not lost however.

Have there been thoughts of publishing one of the adventure path books every two months to make one complete AP every year or is that bad for business? I assume it takes most people at least a year to run an entire campaign. It has taken me well over a year to complete Curse of the Crimson Throne and I play weekly or bi-weekly. Just curious about that.

Good Day
-Ryan B

Hello all,

Is there a chance that the older adventure paths such as Rise of the Runelords will be reprinted? Perhaps some sort of print where they are packaged together or made into a larger type book, maybe combination of 3 at a time or something like this? I am currently finishing Curse of the Crimson Throne, Crown of Fangs, and I would like to start this adventure path next but I noticed the increasing difficulty in finding some of the books. Are there any plans in the making to rectify this or is it once its gone its gone.

-Thanks

Thanks. I knew I had read it a few months back.

Hello,

I have been searhing for the passage in the Pathfinder RPG book where it talks about how lik bonuses do not stack, such as natural armor, deflection, etc.. I remeber reading this rule in the 3.5 DMG and I thought I read this in pathfinder as well. Can someone refer to the rules page on this.

--Thanks

Hello,

I have been searhing for the passage in the Pathfinder RPG book where it talks about how lik bonuses do not stack, such as natural armor, deflection, etc.. I remeber reading this rule in the 3.5 DMG and I thought I read this in pathfinder as well. Can someone refer to the rules page on this.

--Thanks

My bad on question 5) I meant to word it as: is it a standard action to activate those qualities of the weapon or it is a free action to activate frost, flame, shock, or thundering special ability.

-Thanks

Hello everyone, I had some questions about rules that need to be clarified if you don't mind helping me.

1 )Is there an ability in the game that can prevent a paladins SMITE EVIL from working effectively. Basically I want some challenged to be equal for everyone in the group and sometimes with the new smite evil a paladin can quickly steal all the glory. Short of increasing a monsters hit points, is there a spell perhaps or a way to circumvent smite evil if the create is evil.

2 ) This deals with mounted combat. Once you have moved up to your enemy while you are mounted, on your following turn can both the mount and your character take a full attack action? This question is related to a paladins horse mount. Rules for mounted combat are a little vague in the book. I understand that while the mount moves it consumes the characters move action as well.

3 ) This deals with metamagic rods. You can only enhance one spell through the use of metamagic rods and further enhancing of a spell would be done through the PC. If you have a rod of empower (1-6 level spells) can you quicken a fireball with your own use of a feat requiring a 7th level spell slot and then empower it with the rod even though it is now no longer in the range of 1-6 level spells. Assume this is a wizard. It seems it is still a third level spell in its effects such as DC, but is it considered a seventh level spell for determining using it with a metamagic rod?

4 ) For the 7th level spell, mages sword, once you have casted the sword spell, does it continue to attack or do you have to direct it. I believe by reading the rule that is continues to attack and as a STANDARD action you can change targets but if you keep the same target you can do other actions in the round.

5 ) For magic weapons with the frost, flame, shock, or thundering special ability, is it a standard action to activate those qualities of the weapon or it is a standard action. On page 468 it says that a activation if required is a standard action. I always assumed this was a free action unless it says otherwise like on the ability Dancing. It just seems a command word would be a free action and is how I always have played it.

--Thanks for the help

These arrows of cheese seem quite deadly indeed. Using this technique allows you to go past the "normal" +10 bonus range, I take it that does not matter in this case.

Thanks for the answer!

RB

Yes you can have the +3, Orc bane, speed, holy, flaming burst arrows of cheese with every shot.

Class abilities do not count against the weapon. As long as there is no stacking you are fine.

If you had a holy bow you can't make the arrow double holy.

Hello,

If I am reading the rules correctly for an arcane archer, does it mean that your magic bow abilities stack with your class abilities as long as they are not duplicate?
Lets assume a 10th level arcane archer. Does that means if I have a +3 orc bane, speed long bow that it would stack with the arrwos fires (Not the =1 enhancement) and effectively you would be firing an arrow that is +3 orc bane, speed, holy, icy burst, distance. That is a total of a 12 enhancement bonus total.

Can anyone clarify this for me. It seems powerful is my concern but I want to make sure I am reading it correctly.

-Thanks