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Hey daemonslye, Is this still available?


Using this, what's the highest level character you've ever had/seen?


Thanks for the help folks, I understand these feats a lot better now.


kestral287 wrote:

Caster's choice. Intensify -> Empower yields the best results, at 15D6*1.5

Good luck getting a GM to agree that Intensify/Empower are doubled by Spell Perfection though. By definition they aren't "set numerical bonuses", as they can change.

Okay, so bag intensify since "You must actually have sufficient caster levels to surpass the maximum in order to benefit from this feat."

Let's take a Spell Perfection:Fireball and Empower it:
10d6 * 2 = 20d6; + 50% = 30d6
or
10d6 + 50% = 15d6; * 2 = 30d6

Is that right?


ryric wrote:
Empower and Intensify don't apply a set numerical bonus to the spell

OK.

ryric wrote:
...the rule about Empower and Maximize...

What is this rule of which thou speakest?

So how about another scenario...

Augmented, Superior, Empowered, Maximized-Perfection, Summon Monster IV-to summon 1d3 Leopards from the 3rd-level summon monster list.
Augmented-Perfection plus Empowered:
+4 Str&Con * 2 = +8 Str&Con; + 50% = +12 Str&Con

Superior-Perfection plus Empowered:
+1 creature * 2 = +2 creatures; + 50% = +3 creatures

Lower level list numeric effect Perfection, and Empowered:
1d3 * 2 = 2d3; + 50% = 3d3

So if I Maximize the die roll for summoning from a lower level list I can summon:
3d3 + 3 = 12 Leopards, each with +12 Str & Con

Is that right?


Spell Perfection:
Pick one spell which you have the ability to cast. Whenever you cast that spell you may apply any one metamagic feat you have to that spell without affecting its level or casting time, as long as the total modified level of the spell does not use a spell slot above 9th level. In addition, if you have other feats which allow you to apply a set numerical bonus to any aspect of this spell (such as Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Weapon Focus [ray], and so on), double the bonus granted by that feat when applied to this spell.

Empower Spell:
All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by half including bonuses to those dice rolls.

Intensified Spell:
An intensified spell increases the maximum number of damage dice by 5 levels. You must actually have sufficient caster levels to surpass the maximum in order to benefit from this feat. No other variables of the spell are affected, and spells that inflict damage that is not modified by caster level are not affected by this feat.

So if I apply Intensify Spell, Empower Spell and Spell Perfection to a spell, in what order do you apply the modifiers to the numeric effects?

Example, a Caster level 20 Fireball:
Empowered, Intensified, Perfection:
10d6 + 50% = 15d6; + 5d6 = 20d6; * 2 = 40d6

Intensified, Empowered, Perfection:
10d6 + 5d6 = 15d6; + 50% = 22.5d6; * 2 = 45d6
or
10d6 + 5d6 = 15d6; + 50% = 22d6; * 2 = 44d6

Perfection, Empowered, Intensified:
10d6 * 2 = 20d6; + 50% = 30d6; + 5d6 = 35d6

Intensified-Perfection, then Empowered-Perfection:
10d6 + (5d6 * 2) = 20d6; + (50% * 2) = 40d6

Empowered-Perfection, then Intensified-Perfection:
10d6 + (50% * 2) = 20d6; + (5d6 * 2) = 30d6

There are other scenarios, but this makes the point. Or perhaps I've misunderstood altogether.


I am still pretty new, and I am naive sometimes (I can't help it), but I thought I'd get more responses. But now that I've read more around the forums, I am thinking that Heighten Spell is not that great a feat, and is mostly just a feat tax for Preferred Spell. That true?


What are some clever and interesting ways in which you have used, or have seen used, Heighten Spell?

Or, what are some effective uses you have heard of?


Hmm, F9 doesn't seem to work on the Google Docs interface...not sure what to do about that. But you can download it (hopefully) and then use it.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I've never shared a Google Doc before, so let's try it. Here's a link to version 1. Use F9 to get a new set of results.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1B4JMyW6hCdtpKS_x8sW-IzSRyIcI9NRSs-q PwRdJxL4/edit?usp=sharing


Excellent suggestions for the Action list. And good point about intelligent and unintelligent--I actually wondered about that. I concluded that leaving them in the same list, and the DM can just reroll if the Action isn't appropriate for the creature, would be best. Two Action lists could work too.

I also realized that Table 1 and Table 2 should be switched...not:
Pooping Pessimistic Healthy

...but rather:
Pessimistic Pooping, Healthy

...the Mood should describe the Action.

I also thought of:
Healthy Pessimistic Pooping

...but that makes it sound like the Healthy is describing the Pooping, and it is not intended to modify the Action, rather it is descriptive of the creature.


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K, this is from the hip.

This consists of 4 tables in which you roll on each of them (the 4th only if the 3rd indicates it). I used it on excel, initially, to generate random numbers, so there are not nice neat percentages assigned to the values yet (this is a rough draft anyway).

Action or Intent:

I threw this list together. It could definitely use some fleshing out:

1 Ambushing
2 Dead
3 Dying
4 Eating
5 Fighting
6 Fleeing
7 Foraging
8 Hunting
9 Idling
10 Lazing
11 Loitering
12 Pooping
13 Pursuing
14 Relaxing
15 Resting
16 Rummaging
17 Running
18 Searching
19 Sleeping
20 Stalking
21 Struggling
22 Travelling
23 Waiting
24 Walking

Mood:

I grabbed this off of the internet. It may need to be pared back a little:

1 Accepted
2 Accomplished
3 Aggravated
4 Amused
5 Angry
6 Annoyed
7 Anxious
8 Apathetic
9 Ashamed
10 Bewildered
11 Blank
12 Blissful
13 Bored
14 Bouncy
15 Calm
16 Cautious
17 Cheerful
18 Chipper
19 Cold
20 Complacent
21 Confused
22 Content
23 Cranky
24 Crazy
25 Crushed
26 Curious
27 Cynical
28 Depressed
29 Determined
30 Devious
31 Dirty
32 Disappointed
33 Discontent
34 Ditzy
35 Dorky
36 Drained
37 Drunk
38 Ecstatic
39 Energetic
40 Enraged
41 Enthralled
42 Envious
43 Excited
44 Exhausted
45 Flirty
46 Frustrated
47 Full
48 Giddy
49 Giggly
50 Gloomy
51 Good
52 Grateful
53 Groggy
54 Grumpy
55 Guilty
56 Happy
57 High
58 Hopeful
59 Hot
60 Hungry
61 Hyper
62 Impressed
63 Indifferent
64 Infuriated
65 Irate
66 Irritated
67 Jealous
68 Jubilant
69 Lazy
70 Lethargic
71 Listless
72 Lonely
73 Loved
74 Mad
75 Melancholy
76 Mellow
77 Mischievous
78 Moody
79 Naughty
80 Nerdy
81 Nervous
82 Numb
83 Optimistic
84 Peaceful
85 Pessimistic
86 Pleased
87 Predatory
88 Recumbent
89 Refreshed
90 Rejected
91 Rejuvenated
92 Relaxed
93 Relieved
94 Restless
95 Rushed
96 Sad
97 Satisfied
98 Scared
99 Shocked
100 Sick
101 Silly
102 Sleepy
103 Smart
104 Stressed
105 Surprised
106 Sympathetic
107 Thankful
108 Tired
109 Touched
110 Uncomfortable
111 Weird

Health:

You could assign hp percentage to each of these. If you get the first result, then you should roll on the last table.

1 Roll for Condition
2 Weak
3 Unhealthy
4 Normal
5 Healthy
6 Strong

Condition:

These are just the PF conditions. You only roll here if the previous results indicate it.

1 Antagonized[3PP]
2 Bleed
3 Blinded
4 Broken
5 Confused
6 Cowering
7 Dazed
8 Dazzled
9 Dead
10 Deafened
11 Disabled
12 Dying
13 Energy Drained
14 Entangled
15 Exhausted
16 Fascinated
17 Fatigued
18 Flat-Footed
19 Frightened
20 Grappled
21 Helpless
22 Incorporeal
23 Invisible
24 Nauseated
25 Panicked
26 Paralyzed
27 Petrified
28 Pinned
29 Prone
30 Shaken
31 Sickened
32 Sinking
33 Stable
34 Staggered
35 Stunned
36 Unconscious

It yields some interesting results. And definitely sparks some imagination for the encounter.

I can't help but think that someone surely has already done something like this before and it's in a much more refined state.


Yup, planning on it. Just checking to see if this has already been done, you know, to make it easier.


Has anyone ever run across tables for generating random encounters that help with determining what kind of encounter it is? Not what kind of creature it is, rather what is the creature up to: it's already a corpse, an ambush, it's travelling, it's hunting, it's fleeing. Basically I am looking for random tables to help me with flavoring the encounter--to spark the imagination, or at least lay a foundation I can build on.


I've made several comments about the quality of Lesser Gnome products already. I just want to give one more plug for their current kickstarter. A Pathfinder version is available, and if it is anything like the one I got last time it will be excellent.


So Lesser Gnome is doing another boxed set kickstarter, Death and Taxes. It just cleared the PF conversion stretch goal.

They do really good quality stuff. I was astounded at what I received last time. They were nominated for Ennies, so they are recognized quality.

They have pledge levels that offers items from the previous KS, so if you missed out on the last one you can get some stuff.


I just wanted to report how pleased I am with this product. I mainly got it for the minis, but there is so much cool stuff in there.

Here's what I love:


  • dice are crystal and PURPLE!!!
  • dice bag (forgot about that)
  • monster cards (wasn't expecting them, I overlooked them because I am so excited about the miniatures)
  • poster map (same as cards...and WOW a poster map!!!)
  • nice velvety Regional Setting Guide (like a player's book)
  • map booklet..."a map booklet too!"
  • Pathfinder adventure...I flipped through it and it looks awesome, great quality

I've painted some of them already. I am a novice, but I do enjoy it. The miniatures are of good quality. Take a look:
Sample of painted minis

I also have several goblin minis from this that I really love. But all of them are currently WIP. Maybe I'll share them too when I'm done.


I've had some requests for this so I found a place to host the file. Now that I know more about PF, perhaps a file like this is not really necessary, but I still use it.

Wizard Spellbook Checklist


DirtSailor wrote:
The numbers are always good to fall back on... but creativity and inspiration is what always draws ME to the table.

Yeah, I agree. That doesn't come easy to me, so that's what I am working on.

DirtSailor wrote:
I think it would help if you gave a bit more info on what exactly it is he/she is trying to create. Is it a flaming sword? A shield that always seems to rise at the right time? A cloak that turns hard as steel the instant it feels a blade?

Good point. So far he wants to use a Holy Avenger as the base item and then add Intelligence to it with some powers like Daylight at will, and Flaming.

Cevah wrote:
Additionally, with hand picked special components, you could add "features" to the resulting item that are cantrip level or less, but add character to the item. The feature could even be personality quirks.

Oooo, I really like this idea. A cantrip that is part of a personality quirk.


Like in order to make the item intelligent the characters need to go and obtain the spiritual essence of the wizard that lived in the ruined tower.

Or, in order to make that flaming sword you either need to go into the volcano caves and find the fire-rubies, or go and find the hermit in the swamp that has some for sale and bargain with him.

Stuff like that. Anyone ever do this kind of thing for magic item creation?


I've got a player that wants to craft an intelligent item. The rules are all there to do so, but it is all just formulas and numbers. I'd like to add some flavor to it.

1. Do any of you have special materials or rituals or quests associated with crafting magic items in general?

2. Or even better, cool ideas for role-playing/questing/material-gathering for crafting an intelligent magic item?


Artanthos wrote:
revloc02 wrote:
Caedwyr wrote:
ZenithTN wrote:
Just another example of paying your writers per-word, with poor play-testing from anyone but fan-boys.
The racial builder got raked over the coals during the playtest and pretty much all the problems were identified (most of which come from trying to balance around the original core races). The feedback was ignored and the system was released in its current form.
That's very interesting. I'm just wondering how you know this. I am also wondering if you know why feedback was ignored. Is it because it was just too hard to balance the system against the core races?
The playtest forums from ARG are still available. Go read the feedback for yourself.

Tsk tsk, a bit snippy today? I was unaware that there are playtest forums. I just might do that.


Caedwyr wrote:
You can find the playtest forums for the Advanced Race Guide here somewhere. The big issue that was identified, is to assume that all the core classes have roughly the same number of race points is a bad point to start for costing the various abilities. It puts an additional constraint on the balancing and works from an assumption that has not really been reviewed to see how well it holds up. There were a number of posts (and threads if I recall correctly) urging Paizo to reassess how they were valuing the various racial point packages. In the end a few minor changes were made, but most of the system went live unchanged. This is why I said ignored, although disregarded might be a better way to express it.

Thanks. I appreciate that.


Caedwyr wrote:
ZenithTN wrote:
Just another example of paying your writers per-word, with poor play-testing from anyone but fan-boys.
The racial builder got raked over the coals during the playtest and pretty much all the problems were identified (most of which come from trying to balance around the original core races). The feedback was ignored and the system was released in its current form.

That's very interesting. I'm just wondering how you know this. I am also wondering if you know why feedback was ignored. Is it because it was just too hard to balance the system against the core races?


I recently started looking into the rules for creating new races and I started thinking that some of the racial traits you can get for RP are a "better deal" than others. I realize that when creating a race there should be some balance, and of course the DM must approve, but let's lay that aside for a few moments. What are the best Racial Traits per Race Point Cost?

I'm still quite new at this but here's some initial thoughts:

  • Ability Score Modifiers: Advanced-+2 bonus to all of mental or physical scores, and a +4 bonus to one score and a –2 penalty to one score of the other type, 4RP
  • Resistance: Celestial Resistance-acid resistance 5, cold resistance 5, and electricity resistance 5, 3RP
  • Resistance: Spell Resistance, Greater-spell resistance equal to 11 + their character level, 3RP
  • Defense: Damage Reduction-DR 10/magic, 6RP


Oh! Oh my. I see. Thank you, it's so simple. I hadn't thought to look there, but now I found it.

Magic Items and Detect Magic

And furthermore all magic items have some sort of aura, I get it now. Thanks.


Hey, I'm still kinda new to PF and I am DMing a dungeon for my kids. We are doing a PF conversion of X2 (I'm sure many of you are familiar with it). In there is The Sword of Sylaire, and it has and Aura of strong necromancy. I've been searching trying to figure out what that is. Can someone please help?


Nice work. Thanks! (I love this kind of stuff.)


Point buy with 25 points.

I expect we can augment our stats with headbands and belts, yes?

I really don't know that much about gestalt, but maybe we are playing that kind of game. Or not because the classes are not synergistic? I better go research gestalt, maybe there's something I can use there.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I got some more info from the GM.

First he says not to worry too much about stats, that we are playing epic fantasy (nice eh). Furthermore he said we are going to play some of the old school modules. Relevant to this point is that we will be playing B1, X2 and one other where there are items/situations where ability scores can be increased. Should be fun. (I remember the B1 mica stone because I DMed that dungeon when I was little. I don't remember ability increases in X2. And I don't know what the other module is, but I can't remember any other modules that had ways to increase ability scores. Anyone else remember?)

Second, and he says this is a long ways out, but eventually we will play into the epic levels beyond 20th, and that multiclassers will be able to continue progression. Furthermore, the whole party is multiclassers for this reason. We have a Fighter/Sorcerer, a Wizard that will dip Ranger, a Cleric that will dip Rogue and probably Sorcerer, and then me a Paladin/Wizard.

So that changes the approach a bit.


First off thanks for all of the feedback, I carefully (some more than others) considered each suggestion.

Thanks for Arcane Armor Training, I was not aware of that one yet.

Silent Saturn wrote:
On your turn, move to within 15 feet of the enemy you want to hit and cast a spell. Your melee damage will be mainly in the form of AoO's, as people move through your threatened square to get to you. You, meanwhile, won't provoke AoO's with your spellcasting because you won't have to stand next to enemies while you cast.

Wow, that is a super good idea. I am not going to go this route (my paladin will wield a bastard sword just like he did 30 years ago plus the GM said if we pronounce it "bay-stard sword" with a Minnesotan accent it does not require a feat to use it as an exotic weapon, hehe), but it's exactly the cleverness that I am looking for.

Lord Pendragon wrote:

So, a couple of questions about the project.

1. Is it roleplaying a paladin that interests you, or the mechanical class itself? I ask because ofttimes with a pally, both are involved...

So, if you are interested in the mechanics of the paladin, which do you prefer more, paladin or wizard?

Interested in both (roleplay and mechanics), and Paladin will take precedence over wizard.

I looked at the Magus for a long time because of all of the suggestions, it is a really good idea too.

I am leaning toward Necromancy and Enchantment as opposition schools, but I'm still researching specialization school. Transmutation, Illusion, or Admixture are my top candidates at the moment.

master_marshmallow, the GM is not thrilled about Sword of the Arcane Order feat, but that archtype you made is awesome!

Karuth- Still Spell is a good idea. Both a horse and a hawk familiar is also a cool idea, one that I am going to go with. Actually I am going to get a mongoose or osprey familiar, that'd be cool.


Zhayne wrote:

They're total opposites.

Paladins wear heavy armor, wield big weapons, and go to the front lines. Wizards wear no armor, wield small weapons if any, and stay in the back. Wearing armor will most likely mess up your wizard spellcasting.

Paladins need STR, CON, WIS and CHA. Wizards need INT and DEX. Unless you're rolling stats and get really lucky, you simply aren't going to be able to cover all your bases adequately.

Paladin levels weaken your spellcasting (and you NEVER want to lose casting on a full spellcaster). Wizard levels weaken your combat abilities (BAB, HP).

Basically, every wizard level weakens your paladin-ness, and every level of paladin-ness weakens your wizardry.

This is well said, I appreciate that explanation.

Looking at Eldritch Knight...very interesting, I need to research that some more.

I guess I should add some more clarity to my second question. I am not really interested in a Prestige Class, I want to play a Paladin that is interested in studying wizardry and using arcane spells. (I realize I am defying most of the feedback so far, which feedback I greatly appreciate btw, but I am not trying to be obstinate, I just love the idea of being a Paladin Wizard. The flavor if you will. I confess that part of the draw, part mind you, is that fact that it is an unusual combo. NPCs reactions would be cool, "That paladin is casting arcane spells!!?" Also, the challenge of making the multiclass as viable as possible intrigues me as a player, and I am sure to learn a ton more about the game as I research this--hard to fabricate that kind of motivation. Which all brings me back to asking for help on this thread.)

So one thing I am trying to decide is which school to specialize in and how that will tweak the role of main tank, which I play in the party. Will I take evocation so that I can blast stuff every once in a while (even though I could have done more damage by just staying pure Paladin and whacking on something every round--which totally misses the point btw). Or should I take Divination and act first every battle (even though there are likely more optimal ways of getting the initiative--I really just want to be a Paladin Wizard). Maybe I should get Illusion and use Mirror Image and Invisibility? ...<reading>...actually Admixture looks fascinating, maybe I can figure out how to incorporate that? Any thoughts on this would be helpful and appreciated?

Another thing I am wondering is if there is something that can be done about my armor messing up my arcane spells? Is there special armor I can get at some point? Or some other potential solution?

The arcane bond and divine bond gets me thinking too. Can I combine these in a reasonable enough way to talk my GM into it? Is there a mount that can also act as a familiar? This is not set in stone, but I'd like to have a mount, but I'm not as keen to have a familiar.


Hey folks, I am still quite new to PF, but I have found the community here to be one of the most helpful that I've ever been involved with.

I've wanted to play a Paladin Wizard multiclass since I was about 12, back in the 80s, when I was playing D&D 1e and B/X. I never got to fulfill that fantasy then, and now I am back playing with my kids. I probably will only ever play home games, but I can't help but analyze, look up optimizations, and do research even if I decide not to use them.

I found this thread, and it concerned me that everyone there understood that a Paladin Wizard combo is generally a bad idea, which brings me to some questions:

1. What is it that is so obviously bad about a Paladin Wizard?
2. I intend to play one anyway, maybe 2/3 Paladin 1/3 Wizard (if that makes sense), and I am wondering if anyone has suggestions of ways to meld (coordinate? synergize? combine as happily as possible?) the two classes?


Wow, that Ampoule of False Blood is pretty awesome too. There's so many possibilities.


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Avatar-1 wrote:

"Dad, if I ever get another wish, can I wish for a third bloodline?"

We all know where this is headed!

Heheh, Avatar-1 you prove to be prophetic, I had him go do some research and then,

"Dad, I want Celestial and Starsoul...and Stormborn."
"What?"
"...I want three bloodlines!"

Was really funny, especially since you called it. Basically he has Shiny Syndrome, whenever he sees something new and cool he wants it. He hasn't even looked at all of the bloodlines yet.

So, there's no way I'm going to do 3. But we can work out a double bloodline. He's going to have to make the hard choice of which two he really wants (gonna drive him nutso, heh).

We are in the middle of a campaign where I will likely reward them with a wish when they complete it (just for the fun of having a wish). So if he uses the wish for a second bloodline then that will open the way. Then he will basically have to quest for each of the bloodline powers (they won't manifest automatically, nor will they come easily). Should be great fun. Especially if I can weave some other story arcs into it. Man, I love this game.

Again, I really appreciate everyone's feedback here. The concept of "earning" the second bloodline would have never occurred to me, but several of you made suggestions that helped solidify a reasonable way forward, and one that will certainly catalyze much more fun scenarios. Kudos.


Man...I'm touched...sincerely so. Thank you to each of you for your responses. There is some very sound advice here.

Alexander Augunas wrote:
retrain for the Crossblooded archetype

Nice idea, make him earn it...both in game and out--learning more rules (and me too :-) ).

Lord Pendragon wrote:
20 years from now...

Right on, thanks for reminding me.

TheRedArmy wrote:
work with him for a custom bloodline

Super good idea, let the kid exercise some imagination and learn to establish his own boundaries.

Orfamay Quest wrote:
By the way, in case you care -- and you shouldn't -- the official rules on wish come out to "a wish can do anything if the GM thinks it's cool."

Cool. Glad to hear that. Not sure yet if I care.

Odraude wrote:
Batman the Half-Orc Barbarian

Dude...that sounds like a good story.

I am going to work with him on this and see what he wants to do. He is old enough to be reasonable and if we identify how powerful this will make him (both bloodlines) and that there should be a comparable price for it, I'm sure there is something we can come up with. He definitely wants it bad and, who knows, maybe the cost he comes up with will be more severe than anything I could come have up with (I have found that this is occasionally true when I have my kids come up with their own punishments for misbehavior).

Thanks again. This community is pretty amazing.


I am still pretty new to PF. I like to play with my kids. So my 9 year old son does research and comes to me with questions. His latest, "Dad, if I ever get a wish, can I wish for a second bloodline?" He is crazy about his elf sorcerer, absolutely loves the class and everything about it...and he wants a second bloodline.

So researching it I found Eldritch Heritage feats that give some of the bloodline powers. I don't think a wish would be worth 3 feats. Thoughts?

I found crossblooded archetype. I think it would be way beyond the power of a wish to grant the bonuses of both bloodlines (this is not how crossblooded works, I know). Would a wish be worth granting either/or choices of two bloodlines--essentially crossblooded without the penalties?

Maybe I should take a different approach altogether, just let him have it (powers from both bloodlines) if he ever gets a wish. He's 9. There is no optimization going on except for some coaching from me (and my knowledge is quite limited, I haven't even bothered to read the rules on AoO or flanking yet). Just let him have what he thinks is fun since that is what playing games is for.

I would appreciate some advice.


Whisper & Venom is a Boxed Set Adventure that has an option for a Pathfinder rules version. They have completed a bunch of stretch goals making the set a really, really good value, which includes gamebooks, poster maps, dice, and a bunch of 28 mm minis. There's still a half a day left if you are interested in getting in on it.


A boxed set that will include a Pathfinder version of the module for "The Straight Thop" (and higher) pledge levels, located here.

Still half a day left and they are including a ton of miniatures in the box set if you pledge "The Straight Thop" level or higher. Lots of value if you're interested.


Yes I am necro-ing this thread because it seems the most appropriate place to ask this question:

In your opinion how many feats is a wish worth?

E.g. "I wish for two immediate, additional, permanent feats of my choice?"


Interesting. So you have ~54 spells in your spellbook. At 20th you might have as many as 120 in there. Thanks for that, it is rather enlightening for a noob.

So anyone ever find like a Spellbook cache in a library or something?


Yeah, I understand. I just thought a checklist would make record keeping easy <shrug>. Maybe there's something else I don't get.

So let me ask this...how many spells would a wizard resonably have in his spellbook including all scrolls and other spellbooks found/shared, and spells purchased?

At 10th level?

At 15th level?

At 20th level?


Got it onto 2 pages. If I had a place to host it I'd be happy to share.


Woah! 916 wizard spells. More than I expected. I was thinking of getting it all on to one page, but that probably won't happen. Maybe two pages...


So I am still learning this game, and I just learned that wizards have spellbooks and have to keep track of which spells are in there. So I am wondering if anyone knows of a comprehensive list of wizards spells organized in alphabetical order or by level or both in a checklist style that one can print out and use to keep track of which spells are in the spellbook.


Yubein wrote:
Thanks for all the help. I fully intend on helping her resolve this issue. It may be a learning expierience for her and thus a good thing. This was an attack on paladins by the GM. If it were me ....no big deal but why do it to a new player?

The DM's a jerk imo.

But, if you approach him to resolve the issue he could redeem himself, maybe it was just a bad day. But when you do approach him you'll know for sure if he is a jerk by how he responds.

Please let us know, Yubein, how this turns out. We all hope the best for you, and especially for your daughter. (Struck a nerve here with me since I recently started playing with my daughter. If PF brings you closer together do whatever it takes to maintain that, even if you have to be the DM.)


mdt wrote:

The reason I suggested a d10 is that a d20 has a wide swing range. The average is 10.5, but the standard deviation is 5.77. That is, almost a 25% range either way. That's a big range of deviation. Basically, it means that most of the time your initiative is based more on your roll than your actual initiative, unless you've specifically built yourself to have an 11 or higher Init.

I picked a d10 because we have to use a dice, and dropping the die down seems more logically a d10 than a d12. The d10 has a standard deviation of 2.9. Which means that even a trait giving +2 init has at least as much effect on your init as the swing of the die. Instead of it being a third of the swing effect.

Basically it's a way to compress down the initiatives so that investment > random chaos.

Thanks, that actually makes a lot of sense, I appreciate you spelling it out for me.


mdt wrote:

@revloc02

I'll turn your question around on you. You've invested your highest stat in dex (18), you've spent a feat, and a trait on being fast. You roll 11 to 30.

Should you have a 40% chance of going after someone who has a 10 dex and no other initiative bonuses? Someone who put no effort into at all? A 45% chance that the turtle in full plate goes first?

Yes.

Only it's not 40%. It's a 11.25% chance which I can live with--1 in 9 times the averages guy gets to go first.

Supporting Math:

If Fast-Initiative-Guy (FIG) rolls a 1 (5%), he gets an 11 initiative and there's a 9 in 20 chance (45%) that Average-Speed-Guy (ASG) can beat that one. So multiply that (5% * 45%) and you get 2.25%. If FIG rolls a 2 (5%) then his initiative is 12 and there is a 8 in 20 chance (40%) that ASG can beat that 2, so (5% * 40%) 2%. And so on up to 9 (or 9+10), because if FIG rolls a 10 or higher he can't be beat by ASG.

1 11 5.00% * 45.00% = 2.25%
2 12 5.00% * 40.00% = 2.00%
3 13 5.00% * 35.00% = 1.75%
4 14 5.00% * 30.00% = 1.50%
5 15 5.00% * 25.00% = 1.25%
6 16 5.00% * 20.00% = 1.00%
7 17 5.00% * 15.00% = 0.75%
8 18 5.00% * 10.00% = 0.50%
9 19 5.00% * 05.00% = 0.25%

Add up the last column and you get 11.25%.


Most of the time the fast guy goes first but even if he doesn't he still gets a turn that round, so he hasn't lost that much, IMO, on those rare occasions.

I'll concede that that might be a little high (maybe <shrug>), and you turning the question around on me helps to see it in a different perspective. I appreciate that. It'll help as I continue to think about how I want to do initiatives in my games.

Now that I've answered your question, I really would like to understand why you'd choose to use a d10. Just your reasoning behind it could be very insightful to me. I really can't understand it, that's why I am asking, not so that I can flame you, or rip the idea apart (this is the House Rules section after all and to each his own), it's just kinda flummoxed me and I have found that having things explained to me when I don't get it can sometimes be the most enlightening experiences.


I am necro-ing this thread because while I was rethinking initiative I really couldn't understand the ideology of making the initiative die a d10 (or anything less than a d20). Can anyone explain this?

If you had DEX +4, Reactionary trait +2, and Improved Initiative +4 you'd have a +10 to initiative, the lowest you could roll is an 11. If you used a d10 then someone with average initiative bonus of +0 could never beat you. You would win 100% of the time. IMO absolutes like this are not good mechanics. There should be at least some chance however slim that sometimes the average guy could beat the +10 guy.

So why make the initiative die less than a d20?


Grimmy wrote:
Short of using the full-blown chase scene rules from GMG, do you guys use any special rules to handle running away?

Not sure if this is what you are looking for but it might help.

In that same thread lower down is an idea that could be used in conjunction or alternately.

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