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Grey Maiden

redcelt32's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 1,332 posts (1,336 including aliases). No reviews. 1 list. 2 wishlists. 1 Pathfinder Society character. 3 aliases.



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Osirion

Just wondering if anyone else had a second game running whose world interaction affected a Kingmaker game.

Our group is on hiatus from Kingmaker for a few months (we are losing/adding some players from our group), and I am running a playtest of the new Advanced Class Guide classes for them up north along the Lake of Mists and Veils, right on the border between Lodovka and Orlovksy lands. They are having fun and it is a heavy combat, low politic game (stark contrast to our KM) on a tight timetable, so the action is fairly high. In any case, their actions could easily set into motion a major Brevic civil war, or seriously damage Orlovsky or Lodovka depending on which way they go. Since they are all CN or LE (once again, a big departure, KM they are all Good or LN) there is just no way of telling whose getting the collateral damage know as my group :)

In case anyone is interested, here was my PC guide for them: Guide

Osirion

I am trying to help my GM, who is running his first extended campaign, increase the difficulty of the game to compsenate for the 6-7 players we have in the game currently. I know several of the other APs from Paizo have 6-man conversions that people have put together, but I didn't see a thread labeled as such in this forum. Has anyone done a conversion for Jade Regent for more players? Or even added some set pieces or additional encounters/material that might help him out.

Osirion

From what I have read, if a wizard has a craft wands feat, as long as he has a cleric assisting he can create a wand of cure light wounds, even though he does not personally have the spell. I assume this same principle would apply to all other magic item creation feats.

However, it doesn't seem to make sense that scribe scroll could be used for anything other than spells on the crafter's spell list. Are there different rules for this, or can a wizard (for instance) scribe a druid scroll if his friend the druid assists him?

*Edit* Meant for this to go in the Rules Forum...

Osirion

I am short on time this week and have a big game coming up this weeknend. am looking for suggestions for existing published material, preferably in Pathfinder format already, but I will take any ed of DnD as well.

I need a wizards tower, with active traps, guardians, etc that is inhabited, the wizard is just away at the moment. Level range is 7-13th.

I also need an ancient crypt/tomb/wizard lair with traps, guardians, etc. Prefer heavy on the ooze, undead, construct side. 9-12th for this if possible.

Obviously I could just make these up myself, but I was hoping for an adventure or a mini-adventure that I could steal these from and re-skin.

So far we have played the Runelords AP and Kingmaker, so these could come from one of the other APs as well as long as it is not those two.

Anyone know of PFS adventures, 3PP, Paizo, Dungeon, etc that I could use for these?

If I get no other suggestions, I am leaning towards Mud Sorcerer's tomb for the ancient crypt, though I sort of didnt want to be that cruel quite yet. Maps, room descriptions, etc are more important than level or monster CR, those can be tweaked fairly easily as long as there is an overall framework.

Please help!

Osirion

Most of the links for this are fairly old, and when I reviewed the guides I didnt really see anything specifically addressing this sort of thing.

I am interested in playing a melee, possibly with dips if it makes sense, that uses a reach weapon to help control the flow of combat and enemy movement. What I could really use (besides the obvious builds if someone knows a good one) is some advice on making a build. Should there be a focus on trip, pushing enemies around the battlefield, whirlwind attack or something else? Mostly I would like some feedback on keeping him useful and relevant up to say level 14 at least.

Items, feats, tactics, etc would be greatly appreciated.

Osirion

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Hey all, as a GM about a year and a half into Kingmaker, I just wanted to share some reflections of what has transpired so far.

I would really love for other GMs to post their own "off the rails and out into left field" stories or approaches to running their kingmaker games, and maybe this thread can turn into something really helpful for GMs who are just getting started with the AP.

Why I am making this post

Based on our last game session, our Kingmaker game is about to become a completely different game. They seem to be getting heavily involved in the beginnings of a multi-faction civil war in Brevoy, which is likely to end up with the Queen of Vallis also being the Queen of Rogarvia and possibly Mivon. I just couldn't hold them back any longer from leveling, so I finally let them make 8th. I was holding them at 7th hoping they would settle down so I could start Book 3, but apparently warrior-queens are not a cooperative lot. Now it appears will have to mod the heck out of some crucial events in Book 3 and shove them in somewhere along the way as well as parts of Book 4. Book 5 may now become a completely different animal, where the BBEG allies with and later treacherizes the PCs while they are in the process of solidifying their hold over neighboring countries.

At first I was stressing out over how the hell to fit this into the rest of the AP. When I finally let go of the idea that I HAD to fit the rest in, I realized it was okay. The players are having a great time, totally stoked about conquering the world and experiencing many epic film moments, so why mess with a good thing? This leads me to:

Six Things I Wish I Knew Before I Started Kingmaker

1. Read all the books, digest the whole story. Then come to the boards and explore some other GMs creative twists on the storylines. There have been some truly incredible add-ins, mods, and side quests, including some by the very writers of the original APs. Then review the PCs backgrounds (you did make them take backgrounds right?) and see where you can tie them in and what changes you might need to make to the existing flow of events. Now you have the raw materials to start sewing your own Kingmaker campaign together.

2. Ed Greenwood once said that he tried to create a rich immersive world full of changing current events and lots of interesting NPCs for his players to explore. The rest of his games came from the players as they investigated, fought, and adventured due to these current events and NPCs. This method requires a lot of work upfront laying out the world, the unfolding event threads, and then maintaining "the rest of the world". If you have the time and energy to do it, I highly recommend this approach for Kingmaker. The open "sandbox" nature of the AP practically begs for GM content and your players will love you for it.

3. If you do #1 above, you will save yourself enormous headache later on when your players ask you things like "Are there bees in the Stolen Lands? Who is the major exporter of honey?" or "How many deerskins can I sell in Numeria? Are the prices better for them in Galt, Brevoy, or Mivon?" or my all time favorite "Where is the best market for dire sheep dung?" In this game more than ever, the weather, weird market trends, shortages of things like copper pots, wax, or yes even sheep dung, could seriously affect what is going on in the players' kingdom. If they ask you these things, it is a GOOD THING. It means they are immersed in running their kingdom, so you better have great answers for them or they will go back to hacking and slashing in dungeons and you may end up with a "kingdom in the background" if they lose interest.

4. Don't be afraid to totally change the AP. This includes tossing out entire books. If you don't believe me, check the boards. Some of the most successful GMs have done this.

In particular, there are some huge empty spaces in a few books that will need filling. There are also some problems in tie-ins and foreshadowing that really require GM intervention for a smooth game experience. Don't like the premise of Book 4? Toss it out. Don't like the BBEG race in Book 2, change it to something you do like. One of your characters is a samurai? Make Mivon a Tien influenced kingdom, perhaps due to the presence of a magical portal between realms. Outside of a few crucial clues and events, and of course some very memorable and iconic encounters, nothing is absolutely required for the AP to work well.

5. Dont be afraid to change level advancement and rewards. Grant skill points, bonus feats, bonuses to their kingdom, in-game accolades and titles, etc in lieu of leveling the players. Hero points can also work well if you use that system.

As an example, my party is 8th level, and probably should be around 12-13th level based on actual earned experience. So far I have handed out about 8 extra skill points, two extra ability points, gave everyone at different times (when most appropriate) the leadership feat, and everyone a bonus feat. They have achieved glowing reputations in some kingdoms and among some groups, and are absolutely hated in others. Several members have become knights, be awarded senior arcane recognitions, been visited by their deity's angelic host and received the praise of their deities for their accomplishments.

This has not unbalanced my game at all, but it has allowed me to level the party slower than normal without letting the players feel frustrated. Sometimes to let the party reveal their story and let things unfold in a natural fashion, the "rocket to the moon" rate of leveling gets in the way. Plus the focus changes to the game world and off of questing for the next metagame mechanical shiny.

6. Don't wait for a random kingdom event to happen by dicerolls. I set up a whole year worth of kingdom events, and then put them on a schedule either based on a calendar date or something like "right after a player dies" or "right before the next big battle". These things are too important to toss in and have a few dice rolls clear them up. These are the experiences unique to being a ruler and IMHO a big part of what this AP should be about. Flesh them out, plan them out, detail the NPCs, and watch your rulers earn their keep!

A final note about OP characters:
One Final Note

I see a lot of GMs worrying because certain optimal mechanical builds have started dominating their game. Here is why: almost everything in Kingmaker is a 5 minute work day. Once smart players figure out they can "nova" every combat, opponents start getting steamrolled. This is a difficulty with this AP, so as a GM, you sort of have to adjust for it. Either start stacking encounters back to back to encourage them not to go crazy every time, or challenge them with non-combat and non-mechanical problems.

Don't let the players fix things or address all their problems with mechanics. Don't let them appease an angry Mivonese lord with a few diplomacy rolls. Instead make them either RP the encounter of use their spymaster to investigate and find weaknesses for them to exploit. Don't let them have easy wins stacked on top of each other. Make them choose whether to save the village being flooded and facing a food shortage or build up their army to fight off a threat. This game should be all about hard choices rulers have to make.

Other examples:

Send a crazed horde of barbarians into their lands, big enough they can't just melee them to death. Now they have to strategize, plan, use tactics, and if you do it right pray a little in order to get them out of their new kingdom.

Send a grumpy dragon to go live in their new fort on the outskirts of their kingdom. Make him old enough that they have to work to get him out, and be persistent if they really want him gone.

Have a plague spring up in one of their settlements, slow acting enough that the party can respond but too widespread for a cleric with a wand of cure disease to yawn while fixing the problem.

After Book 1, these are the sort of dilemmas that players should have to deal with.

So fellow Kingmaker GMs... What are your Top 6?

Osirion

The players in my game are going up against a high priest of Abadar, specifically a separatist cleric who is leading a heresy of Abadar. I really need some help designing an effective LE cleric of Abadar to for this Saturday's game.

I have very little experience with high level clerics, so I am asking the board for help putting an effective 11th lvl build together for me. You can go a little overboard with magic items and use 25-30 pt buy. I could use some feat/spell suggestions specifically, but a whole package would be amazingly great.

The only requirements are that the Cleric be human or pass for human, Lawful Evil, that his Forbidden domain be Tyranny.

He is currently leading a group of inquistors and is in control of a small town along with a contigent of regular soldiers from a garrison.

In case it matters, my party is 9 PCs strong and they are all 8th lvl.

Party:

Conjuration wizard
infernal sorcerer
spellcasting druid
aldori swordlord
twf kukri wielding cavalier
paladin of abadar
archer bard
inquisitor of desna
twf rogue/shadowdancer

Please help!

Osirion

So after reading several recent lengthy threads on melee crits and fumbles, I started a discussion with my group about crits and fumbles for spells. Rarely do my players use ranged touch attack spells (at least so far), so we decided to experiment with some rules for spellcaster crits and fumbles.

spellcrit playtest:
We wanted to keep it simple and we are already using the crit and fumble decks. Here is what we are considering trying out:

- 20 is a crit chance, 10-20 on a second D20 confirms
- 1 is a fumble chance, 1-10 on a second d20 confirms
- crits/fumbles use the same decks we use for ranged touch attacks.
- these rules apply to ALL (not just those that require an attack roll) 5th lvl and higher spells slots, but also include staves casting 5th or higher spells.

We tossed around some other ideas, like spellcraft to modify, but in the end decided to keep it as simple as possible.

So two questions:

- Is there an existing set of rules for spell crits/fumbles/miscasts compatible with Pathfinder?
- Any thoughts about the playtest we are thinking of trying out?

One last note: this will be a unanious decision among the players and myself or we won't go forward with it. So far I have discussed it with the casters in the party and they are okay with it for parity's sake.

Osirion

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As we are nearing the end of book two in our Kingmaker game, the party is about 7th level and we have been playing for almost two years now, every other saturday. I was talking to one of my players about how the AP really demanded that GMs "fill in the blanks" as the campaign progressed. When we started talking about what was in the original book that they had already encountered, I realized that probably 70% of my NPCs, encounters, and plotlines are additions not in the original material.

I was sort of surprised to find so much homebrew even in Kingmaker, as originally I thought it was probably about 30-40%. So my question is: How much of your Kingmaker game is of your own creation?

Osirion

This dragon hunter is a ranger 8/ dragonstalker 6 (Draconomicon).

Anyone have any thoughts on how to build her in pathfinder terms?

I am not sure how to approximate the same skills, primarily the ability to do a ton of damage on the opening shot at a dragon. I could try to mod the prestige class myself, but that is a mess inside of HeroLab.

I tried looking for a good ranger archetype or existing prestige class, but I saw none that were specialized hunters.

I could try going with rogue or assasin for the damage dice, and giving her equivalent magic items to emulate things like hide from a dragon's scent and blindsense ability.

Sort of stuck, so I thought I would toss this out for assistance. Doesnt have to be an exact cross, just something similar to the sneak attack damage and first shot bypassing armor.

Osirion

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I know I enjoy reading the exploits of other GM's campaigns and seeing how they did things differently in this very sandboxy AP. I have been reading through all the Kingmaker games on Obsidian Portal and I noticed a LOT of chaff and only a little wheat out there. By this I mean there are alot of campaign sites that are empty shells to wade through to find the really developed long running games. My favorites are one with a completely different flavor, like evil or Viking lands.

To make things easier for new Kingmaker GMs who might like a little peek at others take on things, I thought it would be helpful to make a thread and have everyone post their online campaign websites. Plus that way I get the fun of reading everyone elses. :)

Lords of Fluviallis

Can you tell the queen is a high school latin teacher?

Osirion

I am currently working on an encounter where a high level blight druid takes out a peaceful druid circle and corrupts their grove. Are there any aberration, evil fey, plant, or undead creatures that come from tainted/fallen druids? I could just make them wights or the like, but I would prefer something with better flavor and feel than generic undead.

Ideas?

Osirion

My group's latest adventures are taking them deep into Brevoy politics and on a fairly big military action within the borders of Brevoy. Has anyone mapped out Rogarvia, Brevoy, or any portion thereof on a hex map? Does anyone have any software that will let you accomplish this task? I really need to break it into hexes, and then subdivide by the noble houses in my game.

Also, Mivon, Pitax, or Numeria would be welcome as well.

Osirion

I thought I would start a thread for GMs to share what their plans are after Nyrissa is defeated. There are several options suggested in Book 6, but I wanted to find out if anyone had any other plans or had more fully fleshed out a book plan.

I introduced a couple of Thassilonian ruins in my game for the players to find early on (level 5) with no other particular plan in mind other than injecting a like RotRL flavor into Kingmaker, since my group loves all the ancient Thassilonian lore. I was perusing Lost Kingdoms the other day, and got a little brainstorm and decided to expand this flavor into a full blown post book 6 adventure.

The basic premise is that the series of Thassilonian ruins in the Stolen Lands were placed there thousands of years ago by Karzoug as one of many contingency options. There is a hidden library, a secret hideout, a magical armament depot, and a secret secret tomb with a clone of Karzoug in suspended animation. My party has found the first location, and as their kingdom expands they are likely to find the others. The goal of this is to plant a seed for later use after Book 6, should they wish to continue.

If my players want to keep progressing, we will have a Runelord war in Brevoy and the Stolen lands. Turns out Choral was actually a favorite general of Alaznist, who also placed a contingency here, specifically to go after Karzoug again if he returned. He woke up from suspended animation by mistake and since he could not wake his mistress, set about to forge a kingdom for himself. He freed some of her red dragon servants (also suspended) and went to town on poor Rostland and Issia, making himself the ruler for a fat and happy few years. Alaznist woke up, realized all the danger had not passed yet (Nyrissa) and put Choral and his family back in sleep mode to await the passing of the final danger. Once Nyrissa is defeated, it will be safe for the Runelords to awaken and begin their ascendancy once more.

Post Book 6, Alaznist will reinstate Choral on the throne of Brevoy, and attempt to conquer the player's kingdom, before going after Karzoug. Karzoug comes back with similar ideas, grabbing a chunk of the PC's kingdom near Pitax and moving into Numeria, hoping to ally with and then conquer the Technic League and Numeria, harnessing they technology for his use against Alaznist. The idea is each Runelord is after a different half of the player's kingdom, but could care less about the PCs. They just want fodder for their eternal struggle against one another. The PCs will probably have to choose which half of their kingdom they want to focus on saving (also choosing which Runelord to go after first). Once they recover that half of their kingdom and defeat the first one, the second one will have risen to power and built a strong kingdom on the bones of half the old kingdom of the PCs.

One last thing, the Observatory in Brevoy is actually a dormant gateway to very scary parts of the Dark Tapestry that was originally built by the Cyclops settlement here. Alaznist will activate this gateway and bring things from HP Lovecraft's worst nightmares down upon the party's kingdom. Karzoug on the other hand, is likely to unleash a Mech men army upon them or worse.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be welcome, since right now this is all the idea is, a premise.

Also, I would love to hear about anyone else's plans for after Kingmaker as well. Where are you taking your players after Nyrissa?

Osirion

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Okay I decided to run Realm of the Fellnight Queen in the middle of Rivers Run Red, mostly because a vengeance minded Calistria worshipping elf who hates humans (until recently) has kept them from exploring any of the Narlmarches. They finally made peace and were able to explore some. I am planning the Fellnight Queen about a year and a half out from the current date in game, probably about 5 months after hargulka and crew are dispatched. Here is how I am tying them in:

1)Bellis=small village of Grozni forest immigrants who came down to start a new colony under the auspices of the PCs protection. They are called the ForestHawks. No name for the settlement yet because the PCs have to found it after the winter.

2) Vinroot, unicorns, dryads are all going to be introduced shortly as the 1st world PC gnome druid explores the forest with the warden.

The PC druid already had a few run ins with a camp from the Brevoy Lumber Consortium and set them straight about where and how much wood they are allowed to harvest. Im thinking they get a little carried away and upset Vinroot, involving the druid in arbitration. Similarly, the foreman of the camp is named Corax, the same Corax who will venture beyond the hexes he has permission to harvest and run afoul of Melianse later on.

Also as a final smack in the face, the party discovered an giant oak table with a face and arms in the Stag Lord’s fort main hall. This was an ent they killed and turned into a table. The poor PC druid had an apoplectic fit when he found out, especially since they had already dispatched the Stag Lord and the worst of the bandits. All these will serve to get Vinroot drinking.

3) The centaurs will come from a re-settled group moving over to avoid conflicting with Maegar Varn. Hopefully the druid will help them re-locate into the Narlmarches so they can play a part in this module.

4) I recently told the party that the price of honey is extremely high, so they are planning to create an apiary soon. I think I might have Tenzekil come along as a bee expert and offer to run it for them.

5) The entrance to the Fellnight Realm will be located inside a half a hex sized elven graveyard the party has already discovered in the Narlmarches. It is prohibited to enter there unless you are an elf, so this is a perfect place to stick something I don’t want the party to find too soon.

6) I am going to make Devarre a fey druid who lives half the time in the 1st world and half the time in Golarion. He will be a future source of info on the 1st world if and when they need it.

7) Rhoswen will form a new fey kingdom (much like Hargulka’s troll kingdom to the south) in the Narlmarches if the party doesn’t stop her.

8) When they defeat Rhoswen, they will find a copy of Zuddiger’s picnic among her books.

Any other thoughts, tie-ins, foreshadowing, or expansions for running this module in Kingmaker would be greatly appreciated!

Especially would be interested in feedback from people like Dudemeister, Robert Brambley, and anyone else who has adapted it or run it already within KM.

Osirion

I took the map of Brevoy from the Inner Sea Guide and blew it up trying to match it with the scale of the AP maps of the Stolen Lands. Has anyone else done this and have any advice about what scale to make it or how to lay out the hexes so they mesh with the AP maps? Most specifically, I am trying to create maps of Rogarvian and Lebeda lands in Southern Brevoy since I suspect my players may soon be riding against some particularly offensive nobles there, assuming I can insult them worse than their patience level can stand :)

Osirion

Has anyone spec'ed him out and created an indepth personality, etc for him. I am specifically looking for likes, dislikes, weaknesses, ambitions, policies, etc.

If not, I will have to spec him out myself, since I want my players to have angles to exploit when they have to attack into Brevoy to protect one of my player's family interests. For instance, if he hates necromancers, they can frame their enemy as a necromancer supporter, etc.

Hopefully, one of you awesome creative GMs has already gone here and done my dirty work for me :)

Also, if anyone knows of any canon material on him outside of what is in the Kingmaker AP and the Inner Sea Campaign guide, please point me to it.

Osirion

5 people marked this as a favorite.

Is there a map or layout anywhere in any product that shows trade routes and what is being imported and exported from varying kingdoms? That was one of my favorite illustrations in the Faerun books way back, so I wondered if Paizo had gotten around to doing something similar.

My players are asking me questions about which products come from where, etc, and how far away they are imported which could affect price if they make a local substitute. (running Kingmaker)

Any resources about trade goods and routes would be greatly appreciated if they are referenced.

Osirion

Even though I love my zen archer, we are a 6 man group without a cleric going through the Age of Worms campaign. We just hit 4th level and are starting to feel the pain of having no healer. So far we have run with healing potions and the fact that our GM let CLW be a 2nd lvl arcane spell. In any case, I plan to swap out my archer for a buff/ cure/channel vs undead based cleric, eventually going into Holy Vindicator. He is an aasimar, with the fluff that he is descended from a Ghaelle azata (light) and a worshipper of Pelor (we are in Greyhawk).

Our current party:

Half-orc barbarian (Inv rager)
Human wizard (enchantment spec)
Slyph sorcerer (Air elemental bloodline)
halfling rogue (trap focus)
half-orc paladin (tank)
dwarf zen archer (me-soon to be cleric)

Character build:

FURYIAN CR 3
Male Aasimar Cleric 4
NG Medium Outsider (Native)
Hero Points 1
Init +0; Senses Darkvision (60 feet); Perception +7
--------------------
DEFENSE
--------------------
AC 17, touch 10, flat-footed 17 (+5 armor, +2 shield)
hp 35 (4d8+8)
Fort +5, Ref +1, Will +8
Resist acid 5, cold 5, electricity 5
--------------------
OFFENSE
--------------------
Spd 20 ft.
Melee Scimitar +5 (1d6+2/18-20/x2) and
Special Attacks Sun's Blessing
Spell-Like Abilities Daylight (1/day)
Domains: Sun, Azata(good)
Cleric Spells Known (CL 4, 5 melee touch, 3 ranged touch):
2 (3/day) Heat Metal (DC 16), Shield Other (DC 16), Silence (DC 16), Bull's Strength (DC 16)
1 (4/day) Divine Favor (DC 15), Protection from Evil (DC 15), Expeditious Retreat (DC 15), Bless (x2)
0 (at will) Guidance, Light, Detect Magic, Spark (DC 14)
--------------------
Str 14, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 18, Cha 15
Base Atk +3; CMB +5; CMD 15
Feats Selective Channeling, Toughness +4
Traits Cleansing Light, Sacred Conduit
Skills Acrobatics -4, Climb -2, Diplomacy +8, Escape Artist -4, Fly -4, Heal +8, Knowledge (Religion) +5, Perception +7, Ride -4, Sense Motive +8, Stealth -4, Swim -2
Languages Celestial, Common
SQ Aura (Ex), Azata, Cleric Channel Positive Energy 2d6 (5/day) (DC 15) (Su), Cleric Domain: Sun, Elysium's Call (2 rounds) (7/day) (Su), Hero Points (1), Spontaneous Casting
Combat Gear Kilted Chain Shirt, Scimitar, Shield, Heavy Steel;

Feats I am considering in no particular order: Improved channel, extra channel, alignment channel (by 7th lvl if I am going HV), lightning reflexes, extend spell, spell penetration, disruptive spell, friendly switch.

Campaign limitations: We used the heroic array with an additional point awarded, so stats are fixed, and I am dead set on the race that I picked. No Ult Combat or Ult Magic allowed, and the campaign seems sort of low magic as far as being able to purchase magic items (you make it or you find it basically). All else is open for suggestions!

I have not played a cleric to high levels before and I would really like some help with feats and other suggestions going forward. I plan to go Cleric 7 or 8 and take Holy Vindicator, though I may not advance past 4th if losing casting levels appear it will hurt us too much at that point.

Osirion

49 people marked this as a favorite.

When our group decided to play Kingmaker, I knew that I wanted to make the feel of the game one similar to my favorite book series, Game of Thrones by George RR Martin. These are the adjustments I made in my campaign to make that happen. Hopefully some of you will find at least part of these ideas useful or interesting.

Bear in mind that none of this is even remotely canon, as the noble houses of Brevoy have been expanded into Dukedoms, with lesser noble houses underneath of each of them for greater political complications and possibilities. The Swordlords have been expanded from a bunch of itinerant dueling swordsmen in Restov into a quiet force equal to any of the standing Dukes. Additionally, the Churches of Abadar and to some extent Gorum also wield a great deal of influence and power, though not quite to the degree the noble houses do.

My party started out in a fictional town of Tammerling, located in the lands of the Baron Manning, a minor Rogarvian noble with amicable ties to the Swordlords. It was actually the Baron who commissioned the party to head into the Stolen Lands, not the Swordlords or Brevoy. The Swordlords approved obviously, since it gave their side more resources and land and places a buffer between Restov and Mivon. Surtova doesn’t really have any involvement in this venture, which allows the GM to involve the Royal Brevic guard either as allies, neutrals, or enemies, depending on the circumstances.

Personalities of the Duchies of Brevoy

House Surtova – very cunning, manipulative, opportunistic, use their wealth gained as a merchant family to open up doors for future advancement. Some of their extended family are secretly pirates upon the Lake of Sea and Mists, and raid in conjunction with House Lodovka. Noleski is fond of his station and the wealth, luxuries, women, and adoration it brings him. His sister has far more ambitious goals, and wants to eventually sit on the throne directly. Her idol is Abrogail of House Thrune, who she sees as a guide for enlightened rule. To assist her in her ambitions, she has fostered and allied herself with a heretical brance of the Church of Abadar that believes in using force and intimidation to maintain order and law (LE). This house is played similar to the Lannisters from GoT, minus quite so much gold.

House Medvyed – straightforward, old school, steady and reliable, strong, worship the Old Gods (Erastil/Green Faith), and rule over lands that are mostly untamed wilderness. This house is played similarly to the Starks from GoT, with a bit more political savvy.

House Orlovsky – proud, fierce, intractable hill people, who are much influenced by their Iobarian roots. They were close allies to the House Rogarvia, and do not look favorably upon the current Regent situation with a Surtovan pretender sitting on the throne. They never miss a chance to remind the regent of his true title, and speak as if the Rogarvians are merely on an extended vacation and will soon return to set things right. They will never give up ground when they don’t have to, and are politically patient and calculating in their dealings. They have a longstanding feud with House Lodovka and have see House Surtova as simpering lackeys. They are a very dangerous enemy and currently the one most in the sights of Surtova. If the Regent can stabilize things in the south enough to act in the North with a free hand, there could soon be a Crown War over the title of King. This house plays like the Scotsmen of the Northern Highlands, a la Braveheart.

House Lodovka – extensive ships, water dwelling folk, quite a bit of piracy and raiding, treacherous when dealing with anyone but House Surtova. This house is played similar to the Ironborn (Greyjoys) from GoT, only toned down a little so it is slightly more weasily and less burn and destroy everything.

House Garess – reserved, tend to stay out of disputes, hold back their allegiance until they can gain the most benefit, interested in what they payout is more than any loyalties. Played a bit like the Freys from GoT, though if the elder Lord Garess passes and his dwarven heir takes the ducal throne, this kingdom could become a bit more assertive and posturing.

House Lebeda - tempestuous, driven, prickly about their honor, in short, much like the Swordlords. The current matron of the House wants to marry her daughter off to Noleski Surtova in return for her support in his becoming king, and plans to strongarm the Swordlords who have domains in her lands into her way of thinking. Ideally, her son will be married off to a Swordlord ruling family, cementing her local alliances as well. Despite her lofty goals, Dame Sarrona has not really thought things through, nor consulted with many of those involved in her schemes. Her daughter is in love with a Swordlord scion already, and plans to keep him as a lover once she marries the king, possibly re-marrying him if something “tragic” were to happen to the king. Her son wants more than anything to adventure and see the wonders of the world, and has very little interest in ruling anything currently. He doesn’t mind ruling, he just wants to sow his wild oats and experience life some before being chained down to a title the rest of his life. He secretly plans to steal away to this new kingdom in the Stolen Lands where there are risks and adventures aplenty, if the bards and rumors are to be believed. This house is played like the Tyrells from GoT, ambitious to align themselves to the ruling power of the realm, whoever that may be. The have their fingers in many endeavors and tend to cover their bases by playing both sides of the fence at the same time, so they come out on top no matter which was the situation resolves itself.

Osirion

I am interested in any ideas for dirty tricks evil fey or other small annoying creatures can pull on my party. Occasionally, I like to make them the sort of foes that makes the party stands around and mash their dead remains into mush because they hate them so much. So far tricks I have used with evil fey are:

-improved snatch with a rogueish fey that stole the cleric's holy symbol.

-quickling that raced into camp and spread a bag of horse's blood around, followed shortly by a group of angry trolls it let to the party's camp.

-fey with a very high stealth roll stuffed poison ivy leaves into the players shorts while they slept slightly away from the guard at camp.

All of these resulted in at least one player wanting to stop everything until they hunted down the offending fey. Any other ideas?

Osirion

I am trying to figure out where my groups kingdom should be BP wise at different sizes and points in the game. If anyone would mind including approx BP for either different sizes of the kingdom or different books, along with # of cities at that time, it would be immensely helpful.

My players did not like the idea of magic items generating most of a kingdoms BP (nor did I), so we are experimenting with alternate methods, but it would be good to know what my benchmarks are for BP income.

Any info posted would be helpful, but if possible posts showing progression would be most helpful. Progression could be either by # of hexes or by book.

Osirion

I am currently playing a dwarven zen archer in a regular campaign. Our party is fairly large with 9 players. Party consists of bard/cavalier(going battle herald), natural weapon ranger, witch, enchantment spec wizard, elemental sorcerer, halfling rogue, half orc paladin tank, and a half orc barbarian.

My monk is primarily the scout and ranged support for the party. I am considering taking three levels of druid to supplement my monk skills, which would net me woodland stride, trackless step, and 2nd lvl spells.

I am looking for some advice/opinions as to whether this is a waste of time, decent idea, and if so, some feat and equipment ideas to complement a build in this direction.

My current build is posted below, with steel soul, spider step, toughness, and improved critical (longbow) my next feat choices.

BROTHER THAIN CR 2
Male Dwarf Monk (Zen Archer) 3
LN Medium Humanoid (Dwarf)
Hero Points 2
Init +3; Senses Darkvision (120 feet); Perception +10
--------------------
DEFENSE
--------------------
AC 15, touch 15, flat-footed 14 (+1 Dex)
hp 29 (3d8+6)
Fort +5, Ref +4, Will +7
Defensive Abilities Defensive Training
--------------------
OFFENSE
--------------------
Spd 30 ft.
Melee Unarmed Strike +4 (1d6+2/20/x2)
Ranged Longbow, Comp. (Str +2) +7 (1d8+2/20/x3)
Special Attacks Flurry of Blows +1/+1, Zen Archery
--------------------
STATISTICS
--------------------
Str 14, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 6
Base Atk +2; CMB +4; CMD 19
Feats Deadly Aim -1/+2, Deep Sight, Improved Unarmed Strike, Monk Weapon Proficiencies, Perfect Strike (2d20) (3/day), Point Blank Master: Longbow, Composite, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus: Longbow
Traits Glory of Old, Outlander - Exile
Skills Acrobatics +7, Climb +8, Perception +10, Stealth +7
Languages Common, Dwarven

Osirion

I am seeking suggestions and advice for feats and equipment as I progress in levels. Currently the party is 3rd lvl and looks like this:

enchanter/controller wizard
air elemental blaster sorcerer
cavalier/bard/battle herald
natural weapon ranger
witch
two weapon fighting halfling rogue
half-orc 2hand paladin

Other than the sorcerer, I am the only serious ranged combatant.

My projected build so far looks like:

Dwarf Zen Archer
S:14 D:13 C:14 I:10 W:18 Ch:6
Skills: acrobatics-9 ranks, climb-9 ranks, perception-9 ranks, stealth-9 ranks
Traits: Glory of Old, reactionary
Feats
1-Deadly Aim
1b-Precise Shot
2b-Point Blank Shot
3- Deep Sight
5- Steel Soul
6b – Improved Precise Shot
7- Spider Step
9 – Combat reflexes
10b – pinpoint targeting
11-20 ???

Combat Gear +1 Guided, Seeking Longbow, Composite (Str +2); Other Gear Boots of Striding and Springing, Bracers of Archery, Greater, Cloak of Elvenkind, Efficient Quiver (empty), Handy Haversack (empty), Headband of Inspired Wisdom, +4, Ring of Protection, +2, Robe, Monk's

Any suggestions would be appreciated!

Osirion

I don't have UC yet, can anyone tell me if there are any feats that mimic this ability or do something like it? Obviously Fleet increases your speed overall, but I mean a feat chain or something to provide armor speed reduction compensation.

Osirion

Okay, I am asking for opinions, in particular from GMs who are familiar with the material, but anyone can chime in. I am spoilering some of it so its not a wall 'o text. Here is the background:

Campaign info::
9 player campaign, so all encounters have been ramped up quite a bit, mostly in terms of adding a few levels to leader types and adding in quite a few more mooks to take up actions and resources along the way. Additionally, all mind reading and lie detection magic does not exist in my game, to better allow conspiracies, treacheries, and plots to unfold.

Lead up::
My party stomped Happs and his three companions at Olegs, headed out and by serendipity made a bee-line for the Thorn River camp. Thanks to our alchemist and some lucky rolling, they got the upper hand and killed everyone except one minor bandit who surrendered and was questioned. Since then, they have taken out a smaller bandit gang (homebrew addition), and killed about 10 members of the staglord's men. Other allies of theirs (Kesten and his men, NPC barbarian) have taken out another 10 or so. I upped the number of roaming bandits quite a bit, mostly to portray the "serious bandit problem". They have also used most of their hard won treasure to expand and fortify Oleg's (Oleg died tragically, so technically its Svetlanna's now), another action which has caused great consternation to the Staglord. However, it took them nearly two months to find the Staglord's fort since then, and the long time in between has the Staglord irritated, so he means to confront them and hopefully fix them once and for all.

Staglord's Actions: The Staglord has kidnapped someone important to the party. He also has a witch of Gyronna working with him, equipped with a Hat of disguise. He sent Akiros Ismort out into the middle of the Greenbelt, not far from where the party was last seen, to burn a big signal fire on a hilltop for two days. The party found him, and as they approached, he informed them that "I am Akiros Ismort, lieutenant of the Stag Lord, and your hostage". This sort of freaked my party out since they had not expected this.

When they asked him what he meant, he told the party it was for the hostage exchange set to take place at a river ford not far away in two days. He was quite congenial, giving his word not to harm the party, and even agreed to help defend them against wandering monsters if his weapon was returned to him. He as rather agreeable, taking this opportunity to let the party know he doesn't really like the Stag Lord very much, and he relayed his background story to some extent. He implied he was obligated to see this current situation through to the end. The one thing he refused to tell the party who the hostage was, which in truth he does not know. This was the cliffhanger I left my group with for two weeks... :)

My Plan: Originally, I intended for this to be a straight hostage exchange, as an opportunity for the Stag Lord to see up close and meet who his adversaries were without having to resort to combat. Since re-reading his personality, it doesn't really fit. He seems more of a punish my enemies sort of guy so:

Here are some of my choices:

#1 - Simple 1 for 1 hostage exchange

#2 - The Staglord has three hostages, and makes the players choose which gets freed. These would be Svetlanna, the 11yr old brother and heir to the family of the PC leader, and an traumatized elven woman who was rescued by the party and fixated on by one of the players. My plan was to have Svetlanna be the only true hostage, the elf woman to be the witch in disguise (she wouldnt have to say much, since she hasnt really since her first traumatic experience, and this would not surprise the party), and the boy to be a minor creation illusion. This situation will for sure cause disagreement within the party over who to rescue, and the fact there are 3 hostages will upset them as well.

#3 - Straight up ambush

#4 - Lead the party on a wild goose chase, continuing to move the meeting point by a day and a location one hex further south each time, while taking the majority of his forces and attacking Oleg's.

#5 - Something else??

I would appreciate some suggestions, including maybe some I haven't thought of.

Osirion

1 person marked this as a favorite.

One of the coolest gaming experiences I ever had was when some friends and I tried out the DnD 2nd Ed optional rules for playing 0-level adventures. It made our characters come alive in a way they hadn't before and we felt like we were 5th level when we finally got to 1st level. We launched into a long campaign and then sort of drifted apart on our separate lives after that, so we never got to re-do it to see if it was just an amazing game moment or there was something to it.

When I tried it out again recently, it seems to be that it was just as cool, if very different even in the new 3.5/PF rulesets.

So:

1) Does anyone else ever do 0-level adventures?
2) If so, what rules do you use for your players?
3) One of the weird rules for 0-levels in 2nd ed was to let a 0-level character try to do anything ANY type of 1st level character could do, with a dice roll as a chance. That included turn undead, casting a spell, picking a lock, etc. Does anyone use this type of open-ended adaption anymore?

Just curious... :)


The burly barbarian walking besides you stops in the mid-morning sun, wiping his brow as he looks around. He smiles at you as if to say "Its good to be hunting together" and points towards the river, which for him is rather eloquent so far. The past three days, he has said perhaps three words away from the campfire, using nods, pointing, and glances to direct your attention to various clues or items of interest. You wonder again how someone so large with a giant axe strapped to their back can move so silently through the woods.

You hear a soft rustle of him reaching into his sack of jerky for the fourth time today, and chuckle softly to yourself, for he is focused in this area as well. Yesterday he made you stop the hunt to stalk a wounded elk, which you both skinned and prepared in a matter of hours, apparently something he has done quite often, given his alacrity and skill with the skinning blade.

Nightime is a different matter. Around the fire, Ingulf likes to share tales, talk about things that happened during the day, and plan the strategy for the next day. Speaking softly in Hallit, his native tongue, he regales you with stories of winter hunts, brave fights with hug polar bears and ice wurms, as well as tales of hunts that did not fare so well. You in turn have told him about some of your monster hunting fights, watching him get excited listening to stories of ghoul hunts and brownies gone bad.

"By Crom, I still can't believe you didn't break that alchemists hand for burning your face. I would have at least given him a friendly rap on the head as a reminder to aim better!" He bashes the log he is seated on next to him, causing wood chips to fly out from the metal spikes on his gauntlet. You suspect his friendly rap would have caved in Udo's skull, but you smile at his Kellid nature coming out.

Mornings are the worst time however. Both of you seem to be plagued by nightmares, sometimes by vivid dreams of loved ones suffering horrible fates, and sometimes waking with just the vague sense that something awful has happened. Its one of the ways you can tell you are still following the right path. The Duk'kreeth as proven remarkably hard to follow, and only a few times a day do you find a small mark or hoofprint that indicates you are still on the right track.

This morning is different somehow, the air smells dirty, like a room full of soiled clothes, and the humid air hangs heavy in the grassy clearing. You have been traveling for three days through some of the heavier growth in the Narlmarches, and your leather has been marked by smashed bugs bent on sucking the life out of you, scratches from the thorny undergrowth that seems to thrive here, and no small amount of sweat. In this clearing however, there is no insect noise, no air movement to slowly stir the leaves, only silence, and a faint whiff of rotting corpses. Ingulf points to the far side of the clearing, where a low circle of stones sit, obviously too organized to be a natural formation.


Greetings!

This is the thread to use for ooc discussions or questions you might have regarding the game or storyline.

We will start with the first day you and Ingulf leave to chase the Duk'reeth.

Try to describe things and speak in character as much as possible, so we are both painting a picture so to speak.

Near as I can tell the way combat is handled is you state your action and include any rolls that are necessary in the post. For instance:

I charge the troll with my greatsword, hoping to kill him before the battle gets too heavy

Atk=14+7=21 Dm=7+5=12 hps.

Where the first number is your die roll and the 2nd number your bonuses. Try to also post what your next action will be so that I can continue the action or ask you to make a roll if necessary so we can keep things going.

If you want to say something ooc in the play by post thread, use the ooc code by putting a "" at the beginning and a "" at the end.

I will start the play by post and then wait for your response. If you know you will have a block of free time, like at Paneras or something, send me an email and we can try to post more frequently back and forth and get quite a bit done. We can also do more prior to the game on Sep 3 if you are back earlier.

Osirion

I'm thinking of making it a recurring theme in my game that the party (or farmers, hunters, etc later on) will discover various lost tombs or underground complexes scattered around the Stolen Lands. Most likely inhabitants will be ancient fey who once lived here, but possibly a slight Lovecraftian bent for a few of them as well. Undead, outsiders, constructs, etc are all okay as well. The less retro-fitting I have to do the better, and I have a few in mind, like the Mud Sorcerer's tomb for later on. Any suggestions about some classic cairns, tombs, underground vaults that have been sealed up?

Osirion

One of the players in my game, who is a great roleplayer, but self-admittedly not so good at crunch, asked me to post for advice on how to build out her fighter. She is a human 3rd lvl weapon master, so that much is not adjustable, but she is looking for a feat buildout up to 20th, including any feats that should be swapped out.

A little background that may help.

The party is 9 strong, a twf cavalier, crossbow fighter, inquisitor of Desna, life oracle, conjuration spec wizard, caster focused druid, alchemist, rogue, and this character. She ends up playing the tank role by default, which she seems okay with.

We are playing Kingmaker, and her fighter will eventually be the Queen, so her stats and such are not optimized for slaughter. I tried to help her by suggesting some feats like toughness at 1st lvl and going the intimidate route to take advantage of her high charisma, but I think she may be floundering.

Here is the crunch:

Human Weapon Master (Aldori sword) Fighter

S-15
D-14
C-12
I-10
W-10
CH-14

Items: aldori dueling sword, gloves of dueling, short composite bow

Traits: Extremely fashionable(diplomacy), Natural born leader

Feats
1-exotic proficiency (aldori dueling sword)
weapon focus
toughness
2-Power Attack
3-Dazzling Display

Here are some of ideas of where she might be going, but nothing written in stone:

4- Weapon specialization (aldori dueling sword)
5- Iron will
6- Cornugon smash
7- Intimidating prowess
8- Shatter defenses
9-20 ???

She often teams up with the rogue, which I think was part of the rationale for the shatter defenses route.

Osirion

Is there a thread for this out there or does anyone have a list they used for their campaign? I looked through the archives and didnt see one, but I might have missed it since there are quite a few posts there..

Osirion

I always felt like having a vivid imagination, being a good storyteller, and being creative were the three biggies in DMing.

Ironic that nearly all the newer GMs I meet today think that the main things to focus on are knowing the rules, balancing encounters, and worrying about the party's power creep.

Not that the latter aren't important, its just that it sort of hit home after some recent discussions with newer GMs that the focus of the game seems to have changed a great deal.

So I thought I would pose the question, what do you think is important, and why?

Osirion

Not sure if this is the right place to post it, but I would LOVE to see a Giants Revisted book just like the dragons revisited. Hopefully to include a few things like: special giant only feats, especially ones for combatting smaller folk, perhaps an interesting combat maneuver for giants, magic items, spells, etc that might apply. Perhaps covering:

Frost Giants
Fire Giants
Storm Giants
Cloud Giant
Hill Giants
Ettins
Cyclops
Titans
Firbolgs
1 new giant type

Ogres, Trolls, Stone Giants, and Ogrekin were covered in other books already. So were Marsh and Taiga Giants, but it might be nice to have a bit more on them in here as well, fluff-wise.

Has something along these lines been considered for the future?

Osirion

Sat. night at our regular game, several questions came up regarding the slumber and evil eye hexes being used by the group's witch. Three different times the witch used hexes and we weren't clear whether or not the situation affected his ability. Specifically, the first time, he was in a net and pinned under his riding dog (he is a gnome), the second time he was silenced, and the third time he was being actively grappled by bandits.

It is clear that they are standard actions that do not provoke, but it is not clear whether there is a vocal component to hexes (in general) and whether or not a concentration check is required if you are being grappled or you are pinned. After the game when I read the hexes, it appears that there is nothing to suggest that immobility or silence affect these two hexes, and only charm appeared to have a vocal component.

Anyone else have any insight into this situation? Am I interpreting these abilities correctly? Its a bit obscure when its stated that they are "magical tricks", so I wasn't sure whether they were SLA, SU, or what.

Osirion

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Bump, hoping for some sort of discussion or hopefully contributor input if possible....

Osirion

still hoping for some suggestions, input...

Osirion

I noticed references to several different templates for monsters mentioned here and there on the boards. The templates in the back of the Bestiary seem to be the most basic only, and I notice that even newer Paizo products reference the Tome of Horrors Revised. Is this the source Paizo uses for its more unusual templates (like I think a plant templated succubus I saw listed in one of the PbP games)? If anyone could point me towards a source or sources they have used, I would appreciate it. There are a few scattered through the old 3.5 monster books, but they are more esoteric ones.

Osirion

One of my players in making a paladin and wanted to know if there were any guides for them on the message boards. I know at one time (a good while back actually) there were two or three posted here, but I can't seem to find them now. Does anyone have a link for a good paladin guide?

Osirion

*bump*

Osirion

I am developing the whole Thassilonian aspect of Rise of the Runelords even more for my group, particularly because I have two Pathfinder Society members, both specializing in Thassilonian ancient history and linguistics. This has caused me to have to create puzzles, secret manuscripts and clues so that they travel to various ancient ruins to discover important clues and information along their way through the AP. I am placing an ancient pyramid shaped temple in the Brinestump Bog just south of Sandpoint, but I want to force the party to figure out its location on an map prior to the Starstone falling, then have to extrapolate its current location. I know there is a small map section showing the 7 kingdoms of Thassilon territories overlayed on a current map of Golarion in the back of the Campaign Setting, but I need something a little larger. Its a royal PITA to try to create a map even using import with CC3, mainly because I am not a guru with the software, and so far thats my best option if nothing like this exists.

1. Have any other maps of Thassilon been published to date?

2. Are there any maps planned for the new release of the Campaign guide or other monthly books in the near future?

3. Has anyone perhaps made up something like this for their game and are willing to share?

Please Help! :)

On a completely unrelated note, I just got my copy of Sunken Empires and its very nice. I especially like the extended coverage of the Aboleth and the glyph magic, which should tie in nicely with the Rune magic of ancient Thassilon.

Osirion

Do paladin and cleric levels stack with regard to the number of D6 for positive energy burst or LOH? I realize you have to keep the LOH, which are .5 of an energy burst, and the full cleric bursts tracked separately, just wondered if the power of each of them stacked. For example, there is a 4th level cleric/3rd level paladin, would he have 4d6 for LOH and energy bursts, or would he have 2d6 clerical energy bursts and 2d6 LOH? An official ruling would be great or a link to this answer if it has come up before, otherwise outside opinions would be appreciated so I can come to a decision about whether to house rule them stacking or not.

Osirion

I would like to suggest a section for DM tools and/or advice, to help out new DMs or someone that has a problem with adventure design, party problem, etc. These are currently intermixed among general and rules sections under Pathfinder, but having them in one specific heading would allow newer GMs to go to one place to look for solutions, read GM advice, hear about GM tools, etc. Your boards have a ton of excellent posters, who have saved my GM behind several times with advice, it seems like consolidating it might be helpful to frustrated or new GMs.

Osirion

Late night posting, so I lost the main point of my post.. I wanted to hear if anyone else had humorous battle stories from RotRL??

Osirion

I am looking for a central list or at least a few places to look to find achievement feats/traits. By acheivement feats, I am talking about things like "cure 1000 hit points worth of damage to allies and you get a +1 hp to all heal spells" type feats. I can't recall their official name, but hopefully someone here on the boards gets the gist of what I am talking about and can point me towards source material (unless it was on a post about homebrewed rules maybe?) I was told there were some in the Legacy of Fire Players guide, so I am downloading that, just wondered if anyone knew of others.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Osirion

From what I have read about Magnimar, they are very supportive of free trade and have traders from all over the world exchanging goods at the harbor marketplace. Has anyone written up or developed any NPCs, lists of merchants or anything for this market? Especially interested in vendors selling unusual goods or from foreign lands, perhaps as a way to introduce lore about other places in Golarion to players. I plan to work on this some myself, just thought that I would once again take advantage of someone else's "heavy lifting" if they have already created these NPCs. Sharing between campaigns is one of the greatest things about these AP forums!

Osirion

Okay, the party I am currently running is fairly large, and happens to have two bards in it now. My question is, do their songs stack? For example, these in particular:

1. Inspire courage, competence, greatness - do these stack?
2. Dirge of Doom - two chances to affect the enemy?

I am leaning towards possibly adding +1 to the first two options, and adding to the overall DC of the Dirge of doom if they play together.

Any thoughts on the matter?

For the record, I still cannot believe I have one bard in the party, much less two, but they both devoutly want to play bards.

Osirion

...at least none I could find in the Core Rulebook. I was considering a barbarian that converted to a Paladin for roleplaying character development purposes, and I was curious to see what abilities were lost by becoming lawful good, ie-non-chaotic. Unless I missed a buried sentence somewhere, it looks like there are no penalties. Since there is a paragraph for druids, clerics, paladins, etc, I assume that this was just overlooked since there is a section in the PH 3.5. Has this been answered before? If not, is there intended to be lost abilies, and if so which ones?

Osirion

Hi,

Can you tell me if there is one particular item holding up the train on this order so to speak? It has been pending for quite a bit longer than my orders normally are before going out, so I wondered if something was backordered.

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