reallybigtuna's page

I think I have all summoner guide questions answered in this post.

It's a fairly accurate piece of advice too. I played a Malconvoker in 3.5 and drove my DM up the wall, it was tons of fan. Downside, it made the rest of the party feel kind of useless since he was a 1 man party and combat took flipping forever.

Thanks for the advice, so I'll go ahead and switch Mage Armor with Shield then and plan on picking up a wand to get MA. I agree with PoE, I'll try to pick up a scroll of that ASAP.

Yea I planned on grabbing the shield spell to help out the ac as well. I still wanted some versatility at level 1 so I picked up grease. Would you recommend taking shield as the lvl 1 spell instead of Mage armor and then take Mage armor as the wand or say screw it and grab both at lvl 1 and ditch grease?

You should consider an ability score increase for your quad's strength, meaning that you might at first just want to invest in an extra evolution point. Also you should think of getting mage armor and rejuvenate eidolon on a wand, then just cast shield onto your eidolon as well because mage armor and shield stack together. Remember that eidolons don't get their first hit die maxed like now pc's(which should be changed). Hope this helped. ;)

Thanks for the advice. I was actually afb when I made the eidolon. How are hps handled for them?

All, I'm just kicking around making a Summoner for a PFS game. It's a little different in the fact I'm going with a Halfling Stealth build. I've built him out fully at 1st level with the rest of the feats down the line. Eidolon wise I think I'm going to start him out as a quadruped but give him arms and go with a greatsword so something like a combo-build if you follow the summoner guide. I'm going to take the alt. favoured class of the Halfling and give my Eidolon an extra skill point so he is fairly skilled.

Pathfinder Summoner
Race: Halfling (Swift as Shadows APG)
Trait: Highlander (APG 332), World Traveler

Attributes
Str : 8
Dex: 16 (5)
Con: 14 (5)
Int: 12 (2)
Wis: 11 (1)
Cha : 17 (7)

HP: 12 AC: 17 Init: +3
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +4, Will +3
Attack: +0 Boar Spear(1d6-1, x2), +4 Light xbow (19x2), +4 touch Acid Flask (1d6, 1 5ft splash), +4 touch Holy Water (2d4, 5ft splash)

Feats
1st SF: Stealth 3rd SpF: Conjuration 5th Augment Summoning 7th Hellcat Stealth9th Expanded Arcana 11th Expanded Arcana

Skills
Stealth +13 (14-1 AC Penalty)
UMD +7
Diplomacy +7

Spells Per Day
Summon Monster I – 6xday
1st – 2xday DC 14

Spells Known
0th– Detect Magic, Guidance, Message, Read Magic
1st – Grease, Mage Armor

Equipment
Melee: Boar Spear (Brace)(5GP)
Ranged: Light Xbow (35 GP)
Armor: Studded Leather (-1 AC Penalty) (25GP)
Misc. Equipment: 10 Bolts (1 GP), Backpack (2 GP), Explorers Outfit (10 GP), Bedroll (1 SP), Waterskin (1 GP), Caltrops x 3 (3 GP), Lantern (7 GP), Holy Water (25 GP), Acid x 3 (30 GP)

Eidolon
Form: Quadruped
Attack: Bite +3 (1d6 +3), 2 claws +3 (1d6+2)
Size: Medium; Speed: 40 ft.; AC: 14 (FF: 12 Touch: 12); Saves: Fort +3, Ref +4, Will +0 HP: 11
Stats: Str 14, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11
Skills: Perception +4, Sense Motive +4, Acrobatics +6, Fly +6, Disable Device +6, Sleight of Hand +6
Evolutions (extra): Claws (1), Pounce (1), Improved Damage (Claws, 1) Free: bite, Limbs (legs) (2)

Push skills and social interactions. Make it so it isn't possible for thog to carry his big ole 2hander and heavy armor. If you are playing a combat heavy ap pcs will build to suit the situation. Though an 18 in a primary stat after racial modifiers really isn't too far fetched in a 20 point buy though the class played really dictates this.

Race: Human (Alt APG favored class feature)
Class: Sorcerer, Fey
Ability Scores:
Strength:9 (-1 pts)
Dexterity:12 (2 pts)
Constitution:15 (7 pts)
Intelligence:12 (2 pts)
Wisdom:10 (0 pts)
Charisma:18 (16+2pts) (10 pts)

Feats:
1 Spell Focus: Enchantment, Improved Initiative (H), Eschew Materials(B)
3 Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
5 Bouncing Spell
7 Spell Penetration, Quicken Spell (B)
9 Persistent spell
11 Greater Spell Penetration

Spells (I've planned this out to 6th level and didn't add cantrips):

1st: Sleep(1st level will replace at 4th with protection from evil), Grease (1st level), Enlarge Person (4th level bonus spell), Hydraulic Push (Bonus 5th level spell), Silent Image (3rd level), Entangle (Bonus Spell 3rd level)

2nd: Scorching Ray (4th level), Hideous Laughter (Bonus Spell 5th level Bloodline), Mirror Image (5th level), Blindness/Deafness (Bonus 6th level spell)

3rd: Haste(6th level)

Okay, well as everyone can see I've done quite an overhaul. I've now really centered in on Enchantment and switched my race to human since honestly the gnome was the main driver behind the enchantment/illusion mix. Since I'm a human I've moved some stats around, gained a feat, and picked up the human favoured class feature in APG which gives me a nice bump in spells. I feel like I have a fairly nice balance in spell selection tbh. Hydraulic Push I'm not sure if I'm too fond of but it does give you some possibilities since the CMB will be CL+CHA with no save and has a 25ft+5ft/2levels range.

Regarding Persistent spell I've gone ahead and added it as a feat, but what did you really have in mind persisting? Please let me know since I'll probably tweak the spell list a bit. Any other ideas or criticism?

I've also tossed in scorching ray at 4th level. Not fantastic but it should suffice in a pinch. I'll also make sure to take disrupt undead. I'll move some feats sound tomorrow when I get the chance but don't think I'm going to get PBS and ps since I don't see this guy being too ray heavy.

I think your idea is great, and your character should be a big hit. I would like to fiddle with your choice of stats and feats however. Since you'll be going mainly for saves with your spells, I don't see the need to pump dexterity over constitution.

If you want to keep your skill points high I would go with

Str 8, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 18.

Alternatively, if you want to avoid dumping wisdom, which is a perfectly valid concern:

Str 9, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 18

You can achieve the same amount of skill points by putting your favoured class bonus into skills, and you'll still achieve a better fort save and more health than your initial build. For AC, learn shield at some point, and acquire a wand of mage armour.

As for feats, mostly I just think you should move Improved Initiative down to 3rd level, and focus mainly on enchantment spells until 5th level when you pick up spell focus: illusion. Or you could grab greater spell focus enchantment if you're having too much fun making your enemies kill each other. (Remember that illusions need to be interacted with to have a save, so there will be points where spell focus won't do you any good)

Thanks for the advice on stats I've actually gone ahead with your second set and made updates. Dropping down Imp Initiative to 3rd level isn't a bad idea, but I'm actually taking it at 7th as a bonus feat. I'd have to muck around with the other feats to get that which is a very really thought if the SF: illusion isn't necessary. I suppose at that point id take GSF:Enchantment at 11 then. Have you had any experience with the still and silent spell feats?

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

Ringtail wrote:

LilithsThrall wrote:

When people claim that the wizard has a wider variety of spells, I can't help but recall that the only arcanist who beat AM BARBARIAN in the recent thought experiment was a Sorcerer (wizards kept getting slaughtered) and that sorcerer did it by casting a spell the wizard couldn't (a Druid spell via UMD).

Link please? I must have missed this and I'd be excited to see the back and forth.

So the sorcerer didn't beat the wizard, the UMD skill did. Something any character can do. For that matter wouldn't a druid be more suited to beat AM BARBARIAN based on the above facts?

I'm just trying to figure out what druid spell was so important.

Tornado if I recall correctly AM BARBARIANS mount didn't take too kindly to it. Then it just turned into a wait until his rage expires and kill appropriately.

Take Toughness at 1st level.You want to live until you get your better spells.

In PFS,you can't use any Craft skills to craft anything-ever.

Combat casting is good,as is Improved Initiative.

Put your Int down one,and bump your Dex up to a 15.Then increase it by 1 at 4th level.

Sorry,I'm not experienced with casters,that's all I have.

Well that kind of sucks for the crafting side I guess I will use that as a profession then for the profession rolls. I'm kind of split on the Dex thing to be honest. Just as a Sorc in general I'm going to be hurting a bit in terms of skill points so the int I think is a nice bump so I'll wait to see what others think though I did consider that so the recommendation is duly noted. Toughness is great and if I were a human I'd take it in a heartbeat, but if I hear others saying that the Still and Silent spell metamagic feats just aren't going to be that important I'll drop both and take both Combat Casting and Toughness.

Better spells for this character though is really kind of subjective since a 1st level character tossing a 18DC sleep is pretty darn nasty.

I've honestly never used either Silent or Still spell in Pathfinder PFS play, since the only experience I've ever had with these feats was in 3.5 as a shadowcraft gnome. So anyone with caster PFS play it advice would be much apprecaited.

I'd recommend something along the lines of a Paladin2/Fighter5/Stalwart Defender. The SD's entry requirements are rather simple as well. Something that won't have that high of an AC but just kind of keep going is an Invulnerable Rager Barbarian with Raging Vitality Feat and Superstition. They have excellent saves and gobs of HP's.

Gnome Charger rocking a lance is always a nice way to go. The main reason of this is because your mount will be medium size so you can tend to navigate in places where taking a large size mount just isn't feasible.

Well I'm going to be starting a PFS game next week and think I'd like to try out a Sorcerer and from what I've actually seen something that will require some creativity and breaks the typical mold.

So the concept behind this guy is he is going to be a Gnome enchanter that is also going to focus in on illusion. In terms of Ability Scores I'm going to try to keep him rather balanced, though I'm not too enthused about it from a straight optimization standpoint, and have given him a pretty nice intelligence just since PFS play stresses skill checks in some situations.

Race: Gnome
Class: Sorcerer, Fey
Ability Scores:
Strength:9 (11-2race) (1pts)
Dexterity:12 (2 pts)
Constitution:16 (14+2 race)(5 pts)
Intelligence:12 (2 pts)
Wisdom:10 (0 pts)
Charisma:18 (16+2pts) (10 pts)

Feats:
1 Spell Focus: Enchantment, Eschew Materials (B)
3 Spell Focus: Illusion
5 Silent Spell
7 Improved Initiative, Still Spell
9 Spell Penetration
11 ??

Spells (I've planned this out to 6th level and didn't add cantrips):

1st: Sleep(1st level will replace at 4th with protection from evil), Grease (1st level), Silent Image (3rd level), Entangle (Bonus Spell 3rd level)

2nd: Scorching Ray (4th level), Hideous Laughter (Bonus Spell 5th level), Mirror Image (5th level)

3rd: Haste(6th level)

Strategy:
I plan on having him take craft alchemy and with the Gnomes obsessive trait and crafting some acid to toss around. Even at 1st level he has a pretty solid sleep DC of 18 (10+1+1SF+4cha+2bloodline). Entangle will give him some nice battlefield control at 3rd level with Silent Image beginning to kick off the second theme of the character illusions.

Scorching Ray is on there just for diversity sake and being small with a nice dex I'll have a nice range touch attack. Hideous laughter continues on with the enhcantment theme and it's a bloodline spell anyway so no complaints. Mirror image will give me some additional defense and I figure with illusions going could create some nice misdirection on what's going on. Haste I cap out at 6th and will see how the character is going from there, but with deep slumber as a bonus spell at 7 this seems like a really solid character.

Advice: I could really use some advice on feats since I feel that this is where I'm lacking. I'm scared of an opposing spellcaster just identifying an illusion so that's the key driver behind the still and silent spell. Also, I figure with those feats if I could find a way of tossing down silence it would be pretty amazing. Improved Initiative is just the bonus feat from the bloodline and Spell penetration at 9th I think would just be beneficial because by that level SR is a very real roadblock.

It's a pretty interesting decision because while both classes cast arcane spells they are still extremely different. The sorcerer can play the face of the party, but is going to be hurting for the skill points. The wizard on the other hand isn't probably going to be playing the face, but due to his intelligence is going to have more skill points. This is even thematically correct because the Wizard tends to be bookish, while the sorcerer just has his powers and this in turn give him a type of 'magnetism' or some such.

In terms of casting potential I think it's a bit more straightforward than what people are trying to do. The Sorcerer is going to be able to cast more spells a day, but has the drawback that his number of spells he can draw from is a finite amount. This number of course can be modified somewhat for a price such as the human alt. feature, but you are then not getting the skill points or hit point (I think this is still a great trade but still has a cost).

The Wizard on the other hand is going to be able to cast less spells per day, but has the flexibility of being able to create a custom spell list everyday. You also have the benefit of getting the higher level spells earlier. This can be very beneficial if you find yourself changing enemy types, modules with different enemies, different planes or just widely different situations. You can specialize to get more spells, but again are sacrificing some versatility.

In terms of staying power the sorcerer is probably going to excel more than the wizard where you are having several encounters spread throughout the day so you are really having to recast buffs and be throwing many spells. The Wizard on the other hand can, depending on the level, bring the higher level spells and can really lay down hell, but can be taxed if you are having him go through many encounters and keep them spaced so buffs are going to be needing to be recast.

Playability is subjective, but the sorcerer you really need to have a good idea in mind when selecting those spells known or you can really pigeon hole your character. The Wizard on the other hand is going to have to be on the ball with not having wasted memorized spells, but if he makes a mistake on what he is memorizing can probably just not do so again and be a bit more gimpy during one day.

i'm thinking of making a barbarian for PFS. Should i bother with going a half-orc to pick up the extra rage per level (+1 to all saves is nice too) or should i go human to get the extra feat?

I personally really like the extra feat but a halforc can do some fun things with intimidate and the right feats.

Bump this should stay on the main page. It's dead useful.

Precise shot, point blank shot, rapid fire, multi shot and finally improved precise shot. Those are your big ranged feats. You will want a solid dex and cha since you are a bard with a somewhat decent str.

A fighter is always a nice supplemental class for some extra feats if staying flat 20 isnt too important.

Just as a random check what are peoples thoughts on a samurai? It's a new class with from what I can tell very little written about it in terms of optimization. A second would be a monk. Note: this would be for pfs

So as a near final post just because I feel like we beat a paladin archer to death in this thread. If you had to pick a character off the wall class(not necessarily weak at all just not commonly played) what class would you play? I haven't had too much experience with playing PFS and would like to play a class that while not commonly played would still be surprisingly beneficial to a party. I'll research it and start a new thread on that, but am looking for a class that just isn't used often and lets work on optimizing that. I'll of course start up a journal of my experience with the class/race combo and let everyone know how it plays out (I'm scheduled on a bi-weekly basis but am playing the modules with 5+ other people it looks like, can't play more due to traveling with the job and brazilian jiujitsu which chunks up tons of my free time).

I appreciate everyone weighing in on this and hope we can link it with existing guides on exactly what it takes to make a successful PFS paladin archer since it seems like an increasingly common build.

In conclusion what class(es) would you play in a PFS game that seem to really pay off, yet aren't commonly played? I'd also be open to playing a new race that is currently undergoing playtest, but am unsure if you are allowed to play those in PFS.

PS...why does everyone want to do ranged paladins? It seems to be popular lately. Seems almost like a waste of some of the class feature when a class that can wear the heaviest armors (and therefore take a bit of heat off the squishier members) is in the back pulling arrow. I dunno... just seems off to me.

I figured I'd just like to do something a bit different. The more I see it though the less thrilled I am with a paladin archer. My final build on my pfs paladin archer seems pretty darn optimized and still I feel leaves quite a bit to be desired.

Very cool mounted build I'll have to give that some thought. I'm not 100% sold on a paladin archer I was just trying to think of something different to play. I haven't had much experience with a mounted character tbh in any edition of d&d so a halfling rocking a boar is kinda neat. Mike, or anyone, have you had any experience playing a character in pfs similar to this? I've played it a bit pfs but most of my experience is honestly with their campaigns which obviously is quite a bit diffent then many modules linked together as well as no hard cap at 12 and you can count on a static group.

Well I'll be trying out a human paladin archer so I'll let you know (there's a thread already on the advice forum) for pfs. Oath of vengeance helps out with some more smite uses. I figured a paladin archer is just a bit different so approached it from that angle.

Okay so it sounds like playing a halfling paladin archer just might not be too optimal. I'm flat not going switch hitter on an already feat starved build so we're sticking with archer.

Human Paladin 12
Oath: Oath of Vengeance

Str:14 (5)
Dex:17 (7)
Con:12 (2)
Int:10(0)
Wis: 7 (-4)
Cha: 16 (10)

Feats: 1. PBS, PS 3. Rapid Shot 5. Deadly Aim 7. MultiShot 9. Weapon Focus 11. Improved Precise Shot

Skills: I'll end up focusing in on diplomacy and with a nice cha will have a pretty solid score and then I'll try to pick heal a bit and at least grab a knowledge. With favored class I can grab another skill point if I feel like I'm hurting each level otherwise I'll grab the hit point, but as others have mentioned this class is just MAD so something has to give.

Traits: Something to give +1 on Will then I'll find something random.

Thoughts: The human will give me a little more skill points and I'm not taking a hit on a strength reduction. I'm still planning on dumping wisdom because even with level 1 I'll have a +1 Will save and when Divine Grace kicks (a whooping level 2) it will be a +5 which is pretty darn decent and the other saves are going to be pretty fantastic.

Hmm it really does seem like a human might make for a far easier choice. I'm guessing feats wise I'd just lump PBS and PS at 1 then move rapid shot to 3 and deadly aim to 5 does that sound about right? Stats wise I guess something like

Race: human
Pally 12
Oath: oath of vengeance

Str 14 (5)
Dex 16 (5)
Con 14 (5)
Int 9 (-1)
Wis 7 (-4)
Cha 16 (10)

That's a bit more balanced I suppose but I still like the idea of him being a bit of a crazy fanatic. While not necessarily intelligent or wise he learned his religion through something like a monastery and didn't just find faith but is fairly brainwashed and sees the world in a very black and white manner. I realize for stats a 9 is really as good as a 7 in terms of int but think i might even make the bump to 10 just as he becomes a bit more worldly and experiences the outside world a bit more and sees different perspectives.

Sorry - if you came to me with a Pally with that stat block build I would slap you round the head, tell you to stop being such a munchkin min-maxer and send you back to reallocate.

7 Int?

7 Wisdom?

How the hell does any self-respecting religion allow you to become a paladin who is too stuopid to read their holy book and even if he could, wouldn't understand what 'Lawful Good' behaviour was, couldn't remember his God's name on bad days and would regularly forget where he left his horse AND how to summon it!

Jeezz....

These people are called crazy ass religious fanatics and they are out there in droves. It really wouldn't be too tough to play especially with an oath of vengeance. More of a do what your told and don't ask questions because someone with the "voice of a deity" said that's what the god wants done.

I wouldn't want this character to sit at a PFS table with one of mine. If you were human instead of halfling, you could eliminate the fighter dip entirely. This guy has a life expectancy measured in minutes. He has a low Con, hideous Wis and Int.

You need to put more emphasize on survivablility and less on min-maxing your Dex and Cha. You are going to have horrible skills which are important in PFS to accomplish your faction missions.

You're going to have to make serious changes to have a viable character. It's a question of whether you do it up-front or if you want to play a few modules and start over.

Now this isn't the first pfs game I've played so i know he isn't really that bad. His will save is going to be hurting until divine grace kicks in but after that should be okay. I can also grab a trait that will give me another +1. The skill I dump into will be diplomacy and it's a class skill for a pally with a decent charisma so that should be somewhat alright but with a 2 sp class to begin with I figure the 7 to free up some points to round out the other necessary stats. A 14 con is pretty decent for an archer as well I feel like.

Made some adjustments to the build above since I believe rat is correct that you can't take both divine hunter and oath of vengeance. I kept the oath in this case. Any other thoughts on the build or does this look solid?

Max damage is the plan so adding the oath of vengeance is probably wise as well. So would something like this be a bit better then? I've gone ahead and given that extra bump to Dex and raised Con a bit and lowered Cha. Regardless of optimizing I'd like to stick with a Halfling just to be a bit different and not go human.

Race: Halfling

Fighter 1/paladin 2/fighter 1/ paladin 8
Oath: Oath of Vengeance

Str: 12 (5)
Dex: 19 (13)
Con: 14 (5)
Int: 7 (-4)
Wis: 7 (-4)
Cha 16 (5)

Feats:
1: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot 3: Rapid Shot 4: deadly aim 5: Weapon Focus 7: Many Shot 9: improved critical 11: Improved Precise Shot

Well I think this looks good. I took away divine hunter and kept the oath since as rat mentioned you can't have both.

Dang I didn't even think to browse through UC. So what are peoples thoughts on that switch (Divine Hunter) since you do give up a decent amount? The single dip into fighter really isn't that bad from what I can see so I'm not sure if it is really worth it since Aura of courage is pretty solid.

Alright well I'll be joining a PFS game at a local gaming store and wanted to get some advice on a build that I want to play. I'd like to play a ranged paladin and planned on taking a brief dip into fighter.

First piece of advice I'd like is whether to go fighter at 1st level or fighter at 3rd? I can see some benefits either way by getting good saves nice and early on or being really functional with a bow nice and early. My gut is saying go with the bow (aka fighter at 1) in case i've got to fire into combat, which would be horrid with a -4 penalty especially at first level. The downside is my will save is going to be horrid until I get divine grace.

Second piece of advice is on the feat selection and attributes I suppose. I guess I could drop charisma down to 16 and bump con up to 14 and get my dex to 19, but I'm not really certain. So some feedback in attributes and feats would be much appreciated.

Race: Halfling

Fighter 1/Paladin 11 or Paladin 2 Fighter 1 Paladin 9
Str: 12 (5)
Dex: 18 (10)
Con: 12 (2)
Int: 7 (-4)
Wis: 7 (-4)
Cha 18 (10)

Feats:
1: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot 3: Rapid Shot 5: Deadly Aim 7: Many Shot 9: Weapon Focus 11: Improved Precise Shot

The main difference would be sliding Precise Shot into level 3 I guess if I moved fighter to the 3rd level and lump it in with Rapid Shot. Thanks for the advice in advance.

Excellent idea

Excellent thanks for the feedback.

Hello everyone, just looking for a PFS game around the Cincinnati area. Any help would be much appreciated.

I'm interested but haven't really done an online tabletop before.

We actually took a group of 4 through Curse of the Crimson throne that was straight caster. 2 clerics, wizard, and a bard. It made it a wee bit easy.

I think the thing to keep in mind with the Falcata is that it is an exotic weapon. Unless your DM is being kind or someone has the crafting feat finding them in magic form or made out of a different material could be problematic unless you are doing a custom one off from a vendor, which also could be pricey. That is how we play them at our gaming table, great weapon but your options are going to be a bit limited when upgrading.

Holmes liked his opium, though IIRC he tended to basically just over indulge when he was mentally bored. I'd think something like a rogue or bard like others have said, though as a second kind of spin a divination kind of wizard or sorc. would be pretty neat. He'd make a neat psion as well being so mentally ahead of his peers.

I'm a pretty big rule lawyer myself, just for consistency sake. If there is going to be a house-rule write it down and just be consistent with it. It drives me nuts when a DM waffles on stuff to suit their needs, but if I use the rule to my advantage they over-rule it.

He sounds competitive and hates to lose it's really not that rare of an attitude and something you tend to run into quite a bit when playing a game. He'll have to get over it or will probably stop enjoying the game it's just how it is.

It's fun and just another part of the game to me. I actually enjoy looking through the books and spending the time to build the "best" character.

So someone that has had some extensive playtime with a Biped with bite(and assuming you can use improved bite as well) what does the fully developed Eidolon build look like assuming 20th level? Do you incorporate slam then as well?

The Eidolon builds that are posted look good I'm just a little curious about some of the archetypes using the Biped form since I've had very little experience playing with that Eidolon. The slugger sounds pretty interesting as well.

Alright, as a second post I'll post some feedback on the spell section.

Resistance might be good enough to rate as blue just because it is a useful buff for your eidolon.

Expeditious Retreat At minutes per level this is a really solid buff. Especially being first level this is something that never stops being good. 30 extra feet and the ability throw it on the eidolon (target you) is solid. I agree haste is amazing and will be a must cast in a serious combat, but for the minor combats where it doesn't warrant it this is a good lesser.

Invisibility While obviously not as good as greater invisibility the duration is quite a bit more user friendly at minutes/level. This also then pairs really well with Fly for nice and stealthy movement or don't attack me pay attention to my creature.

Dominate Monster With immunities, Spell Resistance, and a Save to worry about it's awesome when it works obviously, but i don't think i'd rate it as high as you do.

These were the ones that kind of stuck out to me, but overall it's pretty good.

Because right in the book, under the base forms, it says that the Quad and the Serpentine both have the "BITE" evolution as "FREE EVOLUTIONS".

Its not that they just get to bite as an action, and thats built in...they actually have an evolution called "BITE".

Therefore, if those can take the "BITE" evolution as a free evolution for being created, then again as a chosen evolution by paying for the points and having the SAME evolution twice, then so can the bi-ped.

Otherwise, NO build what-so-ever would be able to take the "BITE" evolution at all a second time.

HeroLabs simply renamed it "BITE" and "BITE, IMPROVED" to make it obvious and easy.

Huh, I suppose that's one way of looking at, but that seems a bit nitpicky. I'd think they would state it rather explicitly this can be taken twice (like in other traits such as arms or tail) if you could, while with the eidolon "Free Evolutions" it seems they are more or less just describing what traits the eidolon has not literally that you have already picked from the little checklist of evolutions you select. Poor wording on their part I guess.

I'm using the Pathfinder SRD for reference, so errata shouldn't be an issue assuming it's up to date.

I don't play PFS unfortunately, so I don't know what the differences are. If anyone wants to write a guide to that I'll include it, but so far I've only had one person say they do.

Well assuming that then I 100% completely agree with what Ogre is saying. I also think this is a rather important topic to discuss with this guide since it will play heavily into Eidolon builds. I respect Hero Lab for what they came out with and it is a useful tool, but this is pretty cut and dry if you just read it out of the Advanced Players Guide.

Pg. 60 of the Advanced Players Guide
"Unless otherwise noted, each evolution can only be selected once."

Bite:"If the Eidolon already has a bit attack, this evolution allows it to deal 1-1/2 its strength modifier on damage rolls made with a bite."

Looking at the Eidolon's the only ones that already have a bite are Quadrupeds and Serpentine. Using the above info would mean they are the only ones that can benefit from the 1.5x strength modifier.

The other forms of bite people were referencing only seem to appear in the Hero Lab program so I'm not sure how they came up with their logic, but this seems pretty clear cut to me.

First of all, excellent thread and thanks for taking the time to put together an all encompassing guide. Second, would someone mind posting a link to the errata that pertains to the Summoner class, if any, so that we are all discussing the most up-to-date and pertinent information? Including a link to the errata within the guide would also probably be a wise decision. I'd love to weigh in on this bite issue, but just want to make sure we are discussing the same topics. I am reading what is printed in the Advanced Players Guide.

Also, when discussing the class I think it would be beneficial to build the guide to just merely put an asterisk next to feats that are banned in PFS, since it seems several people play this exclusively. For builds I don't think it would hurt then taking into account PFS and making a build straight to 12 since that also would be a common end point. A straight 20 or 18 since most adventure paths end at this level would also be a neat idea.

Regards,
The Bigtuna

the Faceless one so far seems to have been our groups hardest encounter. He killed 4/5 members with his lightning bolt spell making for a very quick and painful wipe. Given the party was all of third level and did vecna's room first, which probably wasn't a good idea on my part to even let that happen. It also didnt help that i rolled perfect damage except on a single dice. So far morale is basically at an all time low. I dunno what is going to happen with the aspect, but if we get yet another TPK(will be the second one in a single adventure and they were pissed about the first not really getting a chance to do anything) I think the other people playing are probably going to boot me from the table and just find a new DM.