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Millech the Hump

rainzax's page

1,210 posts. No reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist.


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Flurry of Blows (Version 10)
I have altered the mathematics of flurry of blows BAB
by removing the range <-1 to +18> for <+0 to +15>
by granting the bonus attacks at 6th/11th/16th full bonus
my 20-level spread now looks like this:


1 +0/+0
2 +1/+1
3 +2/+2
4 +3/+3
5 +3/+3
6 +4/+4/+4 (three primaries!)
7 +5/+5/+5
8 +6/+6/+6/+1
9 +6/+6/+6/+1 (highest attack behind CRB monk by 1)
10 +7/+7/+7/+2
11 +8/+8/+8/+8/+3 (four primaries!)
12 +9/+9/+9/+9/+4
13 +9/+9/+9/+9/+4 (highest attack behind CRB monk by 2)
14 +10/+10/+10/+10/+5
15 +11/+11/+11/+11/+6/+1
16 +12/+12/+12/+12/+12/+7/+2 (five primaries!)
17 +12/+12/+12/+12/+12/+7/+2
18 +13/+13/+13/+13/+13/+8/+3 (highest attack behind CRB monk by 3)
19 +14/+14/+14/+14/+14/+9/+4
20 +15/+15/+15/+15/+15/+10/+5


math analysis: do the benefits (increased # of primaries) outweigh the drawbacks (-1 to primary attacks at 9th, 13th, 17th) overall? too much? etc.

i guess it calls the question of source of power.

not through study, not the gods, not inherent... so what?

more suggestions:

Skills: 6

Beginning at 2nd level, the knave selects a number of skills from the list below equal to his Charisma bonus (minimum 1). He gains an insight bonus equal to half his knave level to skill checks made using his selected skills: Acrobatics, Bluff, Disguise, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and/or Sleight of Hand.

Beginning at 3rd level, a knave may expend a daily use of cunning to attempt to gain a psychological advantage over his opponent for up to 1 day per knave level. A victim of the knave's ruse is always considered flat-footed to the knave's attacks, and the knave may perform a coup-de-gras normally against his victim as a swift action.

To trigger the ruse, the knave must succeed at a skill check against his foe using one of his Charlatan skills, expending a daily use of cunning as a free action as part of the check. If the knave later fails at a skill check using the same skill against a target of his ruse, the ruse is broken. A knave may maintain a number of ruses at a time equal to his Intelligence bonus (minimum 1). This is an extraordinary mind-affecting ability.

A 3rd level knave gains Quickdraw as a bonus feat.

i see no supposed infinite loophole.

maybe, unless you are stuck on them having built-in healing, the crystals in their body grant them a +4 to stabilize checks?

maybe with the caveat that the first time they stabilize upon reduction to less than 0 HP (succeeding on their stabilize roll), they may act for 1 more round before falling unconscious?

comparable to Orc Ferocity...

I think Counterfeit Mage would be fun.

If the character doesn't have to actually fight, Bluff ranks is all you need, and a pool of people to vouch for the character's "power."

you realize of course that a prepared CHA caster is strange, and, that prepared as compared to spontaneous (with a spells known table) is way more powerful.

maybe go spontaneous, and, let a point of cunning grant for 1 round any spell known from the knave list? (even this is a significant boost!)

How about Stylistic Training grants an attack bonus equal to one-quarter monk level (minimum +1) while using multiple styles and a damage bonus equal to number of styles active?

You could look to Samurai's Resolve and start your designing from there.

I think an important question to consider is "active" or "passive" when designing pool abilities. Like, what is the frequency of use for the ability? Will it be used right away in a fight or saved for a tight spot? Under what conditions ought the ability be turned "off"? etc.

In my current version of Bravery (10.5) for my home game (which is not a "pool" ability), I grant the printed bonus to all saving throws, and it triggers for 1 minute upon one of the fighter's allies being reduced to less than 0 HP. I too see the ability as a way to "fight on" in a desperate situation, and my trigger choice inventivizes enemies to reckon with the fighter first before dealing with his allies, lest he becomes more impervious to magic/effects etc. Essentially, the meta-level of "drawing aggro" is intentional.

hope that helps.

i agree about divorce.


Black Market Connections (Ex):
Once per day as a standard action, the rogue retrieves an item she “happens to have” from her pockets or backpack whose weight in pounds doesn’t exceed her cunning bonus plus her Intelligence modifier and whose gp value doesn’t exceed 100 times that sum. The only magical item she can retrieve this way is a potion or scroll. Unless the item is expendable and the rogue uses it right away (within 1 minute of retrieval), she must pay full price up front. The rogue gains an additional daily use of this ability every five rogue levels.

Deadly Cocktail (Ex):
Once per day as a standard action, the rogue may coat a weapon with an injury poison, toss a vial of inhaled poison, administer an ingested poison into a consummable product, or apply a contact poison to a glove, without having to pay for it or purchase it ahead of time. The DC cannot exceed 10 + cunning + Intelligence, and if unused the dose is rendered inert the next time she takes a full rest. If the rogue does not possess the poison use talent or class ability, she risks poisoning herself as normal. She gains an additional daily use per five rogue levels.

Smoke Bomb (Ex):
For no cost, the rogue can throw a smoke bomb as a standard action that creates a cloud of smoke with a 15-foot radius. This acts like the smoke from a smokestick. The rogue can center this smoke on herself (no roll necessary), or throw the bomb (proficiently) as a ranged touch attack with a range of 20 feet. She may use this ability a number of times per day equal to her Intelligence modifier, plus once for every five rogue levels she possesses.


because that is how I'm currently running expendables (including potions a scrolls), poisons, and smokesticks (which, could also use some thought).

but yeah, pool it. in fact, i think it is a place where 1/day +1/5lv actually has a place within the current rules. i wonder when this stops being a rogue thing and starts to be an overhaul of Craft (trapmaking) though...

much more focused. may I further recommend:

Bravery (grit version):


A 2nd level fighter gains a pool of bravery points equal to half his level plus his Constitution modifier, which replenishes daily after a full rest. So long as he retains at least 1 point he may add his fighter level to all saving throws against fear effects. Further, he gains the following abilities, each of which may be activated as an immediate action by expending 1 point of bravery:

Brave Stunt: The fighter may ignore his armor check penalty for 1 round.
Brave Stand: The fighter may roll twice for a saving throw and take the better result.
Brave Recovery: The fighter gains a number of temporary hit points equal to his fighter level for 1 minute.

In addition, whenever the fighter defeats a worthy opponent (CR no lower than fighter level), or whenever he X, he immediately recovers 1 point of bravery.

add 6th, 10th, 14th, 18th, here
i recommend the 'bigger for CMB' be delayed till 6th or later


now, what is X?

I ask what gameplay behavior do you want to reinforce? Should the second trigger be subject to DM discretion (a "brave act")? What does Bravery mean to you in terms of the fighter prevailing in the game in some way?

in all truth, most rogue archetypes = 2 rogue talents, more or less.

the only 'real' archetype to me in ninja because the changes are actually extensive.

that said, your revision could either be a revision of 3 talents (Cunning Trigger, Frugal Trapsmith, Quick Trapsmith), or an extensive archetype as you propose. I am mostly interested in the former, because then i tell my players "i have remade every rogue talent into something cool," and to an extent they can use existing materials with the least conversion troubles. if you do create an archetype though, which would be awesome!, i will probably deconstruct it into talents as well for my purposes.

and if you do, it might be worthwhile to reverse-reverse engineer poisoner and alchemist archetypes from your trapper archetype too! but that is getting too far ahead...

it's almost like they wanted the rogue to have cool things but instead of providing them right out, they locked them behind Advanced Talents on an optional basis, practically all over the class description but conspicuously missing from the class table.

I'd honestly lumped it all in with poisons and alchemicks. Traps are of another order of magnitude in terms of construction indeed, and my revision, cursory, entirely bypassed that.

I would enjoy help using those three talents' titles to make a viable trapper rogue.

erstwhile it is now a project on the backburner...

this is what i got so far for this:


Cunning Trigger (Ex):
A rogue with this talent can use an immediate action to set off any trap within 30 feet that she constructed or successfully used Disable Device to study and bypass.

Frugal Trapsmith (Ex):
Once per day, the rogue may set a trap with a CR no greater than her cunning bonus plus her Intelligence modifier without having to pay for it. The components for the trap may weigh up to 1 pound per CR, and a rogue who intends to set her trap must make space in her payload to account for this. The components are considered expended when the trap is set, but are worthless to resell. She may only create extraordinary traps, unless she has access to appropriate magic (DM discretion). She may use this ability an additional time per day per five rogue levels.

Quick Trapsmith (Ex):
As a full-round action, a rogue with this talent can set a simple trap (up to CR cunning + Intelligence bonus), in an area she could cover with a single move action. To do this, she must purchase the components (but see Frugal Trapsmith), spend the required time constructing the trap in advance, and have it on hand. She ends her turn anywhere within the designated area.

is there an oversight or do you have an additional suggestion?

edit: Ah I see. I have not accounted for the fact that one must learn each friggin' trap. As I'd like to keep this to three talents (no other talents use 'traps' in their title or conceptually), I am looking for a neat way to do this, as well as offer INT as the base score. ideas?

i essentially agree with Kirth, that when looking at the well-designed 6-level classes (like Bard), and looking at your original Trickery Domain pseudo-(Sp)-caster Knave, the options on the latter look extremely limited.

why not open up build options then? MADness be damned.

besides, this guy has little or nothing to do thematically with the Gods whose portfolios grant Trickery, right? You just want him to be "Tricksy" is what I gather. So, without straight copy/pasting a 6-level class, I thought we could do something novel and strap a 4-level onto your 3/4 BAB chassis.

maybe his casting could still be (Sp)? overpowered yes/no?

I would pare it down to 3 options at 2nd level, adding maybe 2 options per iteration, whether assigned or menu style.

suggested first three: Boost Save, Second Wind, Armor Stunt.

also, not a fan of your "save vs fear" recovery trigger. something more frequent would be nice. i know you may be trying to keep the "vs fear" in the mechanic, in which case consider having as a passive ability "treats fear effects as one step less severe while bravery = 1+" instead?

you could also mine this thread for ideas...

on a serious note, thank you for correcting my math, posting as i was as a form of procrastination to projects in full sway IRL, (which is why we are all here, no?), the 14-CON 5th level fighter's mean HP would be 10+5.5+5.5+5.5+5.5+5xCON = 42 (before FC).

the simple way to describe my method (what my house rules doc says) is:


Rolling Hit Points
Every level after 1st, we shall conduct a group Rolling Event:
Determine your mean HP parameter (max at 1st + half HD per level + Constitution x HD).
Roll your new Hit Dice for your new level - take this or your mean as your new HP.

I like to make it a bit of a drama, waiting until we are all collected and rolling together. Interestingly, when a d6 character rolls an 'ace' (max result, in this case "6"), even if another character rolling a higher hit die still manages to roll higher (say, a 7 on a d10), the difference in satisfaction is strangely vast. Add that to martial/caster disparity, eh?

Oh yeah, I don't explicitly say they get flexibility with their FC bonus, which maybe I should?, we just kind of do it. I suppose I could add the line "Finally, you may add or retrain your FC bonus as a last touch, so long as skill points are replaced equally." to summarize the gist of it? Consider it amended!


while it might not "double the time" it might "x1.5 the time" and time lost rolling dice is to many a precious waste because of how hard it is to get the same(ish) group of IRL people to the table month after month, year after year.

the time put into implementing homebrew rules must justify themselves (in my opinion). a lot of ideas are great ideas in theory ("more realistic" or "more cooler" or whatever) but interrupt the flow of a story without enhancing it meaningfully.

not doggin' this alternate rule, if your players like it and/or are dice whizzes by all means let it fly!

you cannot roll a result of 5.5 on a d10 Cyrad, it's impossible!

...I guess unless the die is balanced on it's edge between 5 and 6...

at 5th-12th level, what kind of single-hit (not full-attack) damage is coming his way? what about at 13th-20th?

From 5th to 12th level, a rogue's base reflex is +4 to +8, so he could reliably (rolling a "10" or higher) reduce a hit which deals 14 to 18 (+ DX mod) damage, depending on his investment.

From 13th to 20th level, a rogue's base reflex is +8 to +12, so he could reliably (rolling a "10" or higher) reduce a hit which deals 36 to 44 (+ double DX mod) damage, depending on his investment.

So yeah, as pointed out in this thread, the rogue essentially has "dead levels" at 5/7/9/11/13/15/17/19. Any sane person doing a rogue fix is going to fill those gaps. This is my fill for 5th and 13th. I believe the trigger mechanism (lethal blow), divorced from the abominable "1/day" cycle, is sufficiently limiting. I am curious your opinion on that. As well, if you think the Greater version stacks up to an ability worthy of attaining 13 levels. heregoes:

Defensive Roll (modified):


As an immediate action, a 5th level rogue may attempt to roll with a potentially lethal blow, activated when a melee or ranged attack would otherwise reduce her to less than 0 hit points. If she succeeds on a Reflex save (DC = damage dealt), she instead sustains only half damage from the attack.


Greater Defensive Roll (new):


At 13th level, a rogue’s ability to roll with a potentially lethal blow improves. When using her defensive roll ability, the rogue halves the DC of the Reflex save (so, DC = half the damage dealt). On a success, she may also move up to half her base speed as part of the same immediate action. This movement provokes attacks of opportunity as normal except from the opponent who made the attack that triggered the defensive roll.



i think setting a mean is a good idea, with the possibility to "roll hot" and end up with more HP, and eliminating the "cold rolling" that would put you under the mean. because having lower-than-average HP is not what many modern gamers want to deal with, lest they be masochistic grognards.

I assume that such a system helps martials, as I assume they take more HP damage on the whole. I would be interested to see if someone else has a different experience.

My system, similar to your three in essence, is to determine a total-mean for that level, offer a chance to roll that new fresh hit die, and give them the higher of either that mean or their previous total plus the new roll. What is novel about my system is how I handle the Favored Class bonus: I allow it a certain liquidity, essentially factoring it out of the equation above, and allowing the whole of it to be retrained at each level, so long as any skill points it was pulled out of are immediately replenished with new skill points.

(example: 5th level fighter 14 CON = 10+5+5+5+5+CONx5 = 40. If my fighter rolls his new hit die, 1d10+2, and his new result isn't 40 or higher, before adding in FC bonus HP, then he is promoted to 40 HP, and can reassign FC points from there so long as he doesn't lower total skill ranks without replenishing them from his new 5th-level skill points)

mathematically, it offers the chance to get a lead with a good die roll at every level, but systematizes the re-normalization structurally by imposing the mean from the total sum, rather than per-die (to dampen repeated run-away luck somewhat by keeping the mean at a proportionate distance), while enabling maximum flexibility in the assignment of favored class bonuses. that said, my group has not bothered with FC bonuses that weren't HP or skill points so I'll cross that road when we get there.

I drew up a very limited 4-level spell list choice-ily drawn from Bard and Cleric list mostly, with Trickery Domain (minus Time Stop), a couple Wizard spells, with some notable "tricksy" debuff and obscure spells granted early.


Knave Spells (CRB)

Alarm, Blur, Cause Fear, Charm, Command, Confusion (lesser), Detect Secret Doors, Disguise Self, Doom, Feather Fall, Find Traps, Grease, Invisibility, Magic Aura, Obscure Object, Misdirection, Obscuring Mist, Undetectable Alignment, Ventriloquism
Alter Self, Blindness/Deafness, Cat's Grace, Confusion, Daze Monster, Death Knell, Detect Thoughts, Displacement, Eagle's Splendor, Fox's Cunning, Glibness, Invisibility (greater), Locate Object, Mirror Image, Nondetection, Scare, See Invisibility, Silence, Slow, Suggestion
Bestow Curse, Blink, Charm Monster, Command (greater), Crushing Despair, Discern Lies, Dispel Magic, False Vision, Geas (lesser), Invisibility Purge, Locate Creature, Mislead, Screen, Scrying, Shrink Item
Break Enchantment, Cat's Grace (mass), Detect Scrying, Dimensional Anchor, Dominate Person, Eagle's Splendor (mass), Fox's Cunning (mass), Freedom of Movement, Geas/Quest, Invisibility (mass), Mind Fog, Modify Memory, Nightmare, Seeming, Sequester, Suggestion (mass)


(note: this suggestion dovetails on ditching Trickery Domain and replacing with 4-level casting as Paladin)
((which reminds me. Alignment: Any Chaotic?))
in which case might I also suggest:


The Knave
1- Charlatan, Underhanded Attack +1, Cunning 1/day
2- Ruse, Evasion
3- Sure Escape, Cunning 2/day
4- Spellcasting
5- Ambush, Underhanded Attack +2
6- Cunning 3/day
7- Sure Escape
8- Improved Ruse, Extra Action
9- Underhanded Attack +3, Cunning 4/day
10- Skill Mastery
11- Sure Escape
12- Cunning 5/day
13- Underhanded Attack +4
14- Ambush Mastery
15- Sure Escape, Greater Extra Action, Cunning 6/day
16- Greater Ruse
17- Undetectable, Underhanded Attack +5
18- Cunning 7/day
19- Sure Escape
20- Master of Deception

Spellcasting = CHA
Sure Escape = DEX
Ruse = INT


use/tweak or toss. cheers.

Silent Saturn,
your proposal is interesting:

using a Class skill Trained: Advantage
using a Class skill Untrained: Normal
using a Cross-Class skill: Disadvantage

greatly increases the importance of class skill lists. I would recommend amending those lists positively rather than negatively in that case (ex: granting Fighter extra class skills like Acrobatics, Diplomacy, Heal, Perception, Sense Motive, etc, rather than compiling lists of 'anti-class skills')...

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(the gets respond to force, not reason, trickery, not emotion. a sufficient show of either would suffice, and being true neutral at heart, bodes for the other side as well, at any juncture of any conflict. however, the capital leveraged in man hours spent 'spurning' would only barely pay off the investment - if at all. ask yourself: how desperate are you for reinforcements? because only a great fool of a general would view the gets as a priority of any tier higher than second-to-last; with last being doing nothing...)

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what the rogue looks like when she takes off her make-up:


The Real Rogue
1- Sneak Attack, Trapfinding
2- Rogue Talents, Evasion
3- Trap Sense
4- Rogue Talent, Uncanny Dodge
6- Rogue Talent
8- Rogue Talent, Improved Uncanny Dodge
10- Advanced Talents, Rogue Talent
12- Rogue Talent
14- Rogue Talent
16- Rogue Talent
18- Rogue Talent
20- Rogue Talent, Master Strike


to me, this is the real problem: not enough class features. compare this to almost any class - even classes with spells!

Sneak Attack is not the problem - lack of class features that synergize with it is
Skills are not the problem - lack of class features that synergize with them are*
Rogue Talents are not the problem - lack of class features that synergize them are**

*(not entirely true - but skills are a greater systemic problem, beyond the scope of this discussion)
**(ok. Rogue Talents are the problem. they need to stack up to Rage Powers and Discoveries power-wise)

i'd give it to the rogue in some form
like beginning at level 2 all maxed ranks benefit from 2d20 so long as they stay maxed*
(*this discourages dipping because rogue has 8 skill points and can max the most)
and retain the +3 for all classes

to say nothing of expanding skill uses in general, breaking the Ex/Su boundary...

but personal preferences aside, no, I don't think this'd be a too invasive change, except maybe increasing the time spent rolling dice.

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...end of the world? let it come or let it pass, remember a reluctance to eat is a reluctance to live, and the gets cast not lot their lot with any other, nor even eachother, by their own volition, volatile, as vomited unto this planet they were, be there continuation of fate twined a cursed blessing, or blessed curse, doomed to wanderlust, restlessly relentless, into the direction of a wind, or against it, without pattern or purpose or pride, devoid of feeling, that the action or inaction of a more determined race take by force the reigns of their fate, would they be neither be inspired nor demoralized, lacking morale altogether, too morality, more and more despicable the closer one looks, past the ugly surface and into the ugly heart, past the ugly heart and into the ugly soul, a wretched hole within a hole within a hole, infinitely deep in both directions, the color of eternal sorrow...

I debated implementing a system of Guard that was essentially feat-based which relegated AoO potential to High Guard (provoke prior), Low Guard (provoke on failure), and No Guard (no provoke), in which characters started with No Guard, but could increase their own and lower their opponent's via the feats Defensive Combat Training (+2 own), having and using Combat Expertise (+1 own, -1 enemy), or having an individual Improved Maneuver feat (+1 own, -1 enemy vs that maneuver only).

ultimately I moslty abandoned the idea for complexity's sake, and instead just have maneuvers provoke on failure for everybody, with the maneuver feats removing provokal altogether, and CE and DCT having the added effects to their regular CRB functions:



Combat Expertise: While using this feat (taking the attack penalty), you do not provoke an AoO while performing a combat maneuver unless your opponent also possesses and is using this feat.

Defensive Combat Training: Performing a combat maneuver against you provokes an attack of opportunity from you beforehand, and your opponent takes a penalty to CMB equal to damage dealt with your attack.



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...the lowest of divinity, rainzax the Directionless, God of Failed Ambitions and Those Left Behind, in turn abandons his created race, wretches as they are, failing even in failure to create a race more miserable than himself, serve only to remind him of his pitifully eternal life, and staring pale into the future of disappointment to come, will not homestead on this planet, this blasted accursed rock floating about in nothingness, for he, cursed to roam, an ugly wanderer, a sad nomad, a friendless vagabond, has bequeathed these traits unto his ill-begotten gets, cast from his presence forevermore, for even could they pray he would turn a deaf ear, that even the sound of spiritual prayer be grating to spiteful ears. "BE GONE" and with a wave of his hand, finding no respite in either Jakoberg's Garden of Mirrors nor the Great Forest of the elves, the gets travel to all corners, some stopping into the Valley of the Raven-Queen, and finding cruel pleasure in their natural ability to carry and propagate disease without succumbing to it themselves, a marked first temporarily quelling the hate inside, or giving it worldly expression?, a new generation of gets bearing spotted and incongruous plumage, others born without teeth but for a hard and cracked beak, yet others growing into backward bent knees, leaving behind a sickening trail of feathers and germs, and defecating clumpy white putrid ink, these third generation gets revel in the revile they leave in their wake...

You have some serious psychological scars from an a**h*** DM it seems, who took a character feature and bent the wording to disrupt the spirit of it. Maybe as revenge for your ability to do mental math (?), because, not everybody has that knack, and, as the fundamental mechanic of the game's causation is statistical, being able to compute probabilities quickly grants an edge into playing the game that is tantamount to seeing the future. Imagine if in your own life you could calculate the success/fail ratio of anything you were about to do down to a 5% error! That'd be something.

That said, when it comes to manipulating the dice themselves, I identify two major events in any single die roll where, depending upon where the Power-Over-Dice ability interjects itself, progressively scales the ability in narrative and mechanical power.

The first event is rolling the actual dice. The second event is determining the result.

The weakest POD ability occurs before the first event: "Roll twice and take the best result"
The middle POD ability occurs between events: "Re-roll before knowing the result"
The strongest POD ability occurs after both events; "Re-roll a failed check"

and yes, the middle ability is definitely the stickiest area, because of the discrepancies which can result about when a character can "know" what the result is - a character with mental math skills will "know" much faster, a DM can pre-emptively force a player to "know" by quickly shouting "fail", yet another player could poker-read the DMs face, etc etc.

So, if it was me in your particular situation, DM being a jerk yelling "fail" in order to circumvent my use of a well-earned class feature, short of leaving the table altogether, I would simply change my middle ability to a weakest ability, something like "rolling and re-rolling my Fort save =>7, 14 "ok fourteen plus five: Nineteen! Did I fail?"


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Gorilla Grodd wrote:
Not all deities came into being as gods straight away, some (like myself) had to EARN our immortality!

...and yet others are cursed with it. Imagine hating life, the simple act of living itself bringing torment to your body and soul, as if trying to burst forth from inside but for your abject skin tautening to keep it's vile contents from spilling, an inflammation of organ and spirit, itching and irritable, swollen, unable to relieve of pressure, pressing outward and yet inward, pain from every conceivable crevice wreaking, wracking, wretched. Such it is to be a god cursed with eternal life and unable to die as rainzax, his paternal blight passed into his miserable gets, mocking life in it's crude imitation...

lol what?

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I plan on living until I'm 80 or 90.
so, the time investment on recreating the whole system could not be justified by "laziness" - even in as far as I identify with the moniker so long as it doesn't rub too hard against my enjoyment of a good game (an equally unsatisfying waste of time).

that said,
though I like the idea that a fighter can "specialize," I find underwhelming that this can devolve into simple (BORING!) numeric bonuses. when I think of specialize, I think of cool stunts and crazy maneuvers. and fortunately, a lot of these have already been written in the rules, even if they are sadly locked behind feat-bloat.

enter the Brawler and his fancy Martial Flexibility. this is an elegant solution for the experienced player who may very well be at home with the prospect of poring through tomes IRL to find the perfect stunt or maneuver IGL. To adjust for a newbie, you could just let them pull from CRB only, plus one Advanced/Ultimate feat per level, as a sort of "feats known" list. that is one solution.

mine is this.

maybe your fighter, Gulian, could go halfway and be able to train with a certain number of weapons in the morning, and until he trains new ones, be able to use Martial Flexibility with those weapons only. This would keep him at once specialized and flexible. Your legendary swordsman simply chooses "swords" every day, whereas your master-of-all-weapons chooses a different weapon set each day.

just throwin' out ideas.

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i quite like that as a class feature the fighter can choose to specialize in in a weapon - there is some flavor there.

if Weapon Training were locked in at a daily interval instead of an advancement interval you could have both the legendary swordsman or the master of all weapons.

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...and the grudge the first generation gets bear against the second generation burns hotter, effervescent hate boiling their blood and stirring their frenzy to greater depths, and fanning the flame of jealousy and rage, that one particularly ugly get, even by get standards, becomes the first to take his own worthless life, upon gazing upon the first "elf" mad with envy and spite, that all get come to believe that these new abominations, perversions of perversions, and mocking them!, are instilled with the power to kill with a glance, and flee from the World Tree, besmote and begrudged, leaving the new creatures to their own devices, who, denying their true origins, construct elaborate myths to conceal the progenitorial truth, filthy, unspeakable...


a get's Hatred bonus when making an attack roll against an Elf is doubled

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...also curious about Quicksilver interaction, if any, and the whims of the Red Drake... it's notable that this is also a sizable mass grave, being half the population of the first generation gets...

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the gets, upon beholding their own terrible reflections in the Garden of Mirrors, a place they dwelled unto the arrival of the Red Drake, and upon not seeing the awful spreading of the feared Quicksilver show any sign of slowing, after a brief period of panic in which half of the population snuffs out the miserable lives of the other half bare-handed, scatter in all directions; an exodus in the shape of eccentric explosion, to bear the burden of their existence to all other corners of the globe, and unto all the other races, who pity them, or enslave them, or simply destroy them, left to the fickle whims of the own desperate fate, their sad lot uprooted from all familiar land, forever cursed to wander, to wallow, weary and worn, and sickened by the smiles of the fairer races, hateful, sad, angry, and in perpetual sorrow...


what happens to the bodies left in the garden?

ooh no.
but at 6th/11th/16th the rogue gains extra attacks through it, so, that's what i meant by "in tune"

now on google docs!

(if you don't use "cunning" just use "half rogue level")

now on google docs!

(if you don't use "cunning" just use "half rogue level")

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When looking over the core rogue, I sometimes imagine that sneak attack and trap sense only take up a single line in her class table. And when I do that, and compare that with other classes in the CRB (or other books), I can't help but wonder if all those Advanced Talents, which at level 10 are certainly no powerful than 5th level spells, might have been, in an alternate universe (or editing spree), meant to've been granted earlier to fill up all that empty space...

Opportunist (alternate):


Once per round as a free action, a 6th level rogue can attack an opponent who has just been struck for damage in melee by another character as if making an attack of opportunity. If she is wielding a ranged weapon, she can make her attack so long as her opponent is within point blank range (usually 30 feet). Using this ability does not count against the number of attacks of opportunity the rogue can make in a round.
At 11th and 16th level, the rogue may use this ability an additional time per round, so long she makes subsequent attacks against different opponents.


right in tune with full BAB.
I mean, if the rogue is mechanically incentivized to tumble right into the center of conflict, d8 HD and all, oughtn't she gain some sort of 'area attack' to assist her in her survival?

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Medium Humanoid
Stats: -2 ST, +4 CON, -2 CHA, weak and pathetic, a get is inured against punishment
Movement: 30 feet
Darkvision: 30 feet
Natural Armor: +2 natural armor bonus to AC
Hatred: The gets recieve a +1 attack bonus when facing other gets.
Natural Attacks: Choose one type of attack (bite, gore, claw, etc) to be a primary attack.
Deformity: Based on the get's natural attack, also -2 to Diplomacy checks.
Physically Broken: +4 to save vs pain, and to Constitution checks to resist taking subdual damage from environment, malnutrition, forced march, etc.
Spiritually Broken: A get who fails a saving throw against an emotion effect instead flies into a Rage (as the spell) and becomes confused, for a number of rounds equal to the spell or effect's duration.
Insanity: During a surprise round, a get is automatically confused, but always gets to act no matter what.
Strange Longevity: A get does not increase or decrease it's ability scores from old age.

DM experience and system mastery have always been proportional, in any game, under any rules.

And once the DM gets to know their playgroup, the optimization and teamwork metrics tend not to grow by leaps and bounds, unless the player base is inconsistent from game to game.

So too table culture. Once a party figures out how to keep their HP up, and sees that it increases survivability (inexpensively too), they tend not to look back, often socializing the cost to the group.

Is this not true in your experience?

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the gets would be satisfied with any morsel or crumb, even the flesh of their own fallen, for although unworthy of sustenance, none-the-less they are not foreign to the base drives on all flesh and blood creatures, base as they are, and trapped in a twisted body, and cursed, and insane, yet unable to rouse even the dignity of a suicide of pity, lost even the ambition to take one's own life in a stand of resistance, infinitely miserable, wretched and impotent...

The assumptions are based on at-the-table experience. I agree that the easy availability of healing has an impact on play. Is it wrong to heal in-between encounters?

The CR system has internal consistency which is useful. Got a more or less optimized (or wealthy) party? Adjust up or down as needed.

What needs to be re-thought? Do you mean by game-designers or DMs?

Alex G St-Amand wrote:
Call it: the Encounter/CR system need a revamp/redisign. and "how to design and run encounters" need to be rethinked.

how so?

John Lynch 106,

For right or wrong, shifted the locus of discussion on 'your' thread has become, most people's experience with the game has become that in which PCs take whatever means they can to keep their HP nearest full as economically possible. It's just what many or most people do. So, if you want to change the means by which that occurs, without much regard for changing that trend itself, switching to an alternate method of healing is all-in-all a cosmetic change.

I am in the camp that since the PCs are going to do it anyway, might as well give it some cool factor. Healing Surges, 5E Hit Dice, Injury/Strain, Free Cures (Jiggy's suggestion), these all seem to accomplish what you are looking for, and, world-building implications aside, will end up saving your PCs a little gold, as the greatest side-effect.

And for what it's worth, as Stefan Hill has pointed out, you can still run your PCs ragged by engaging in clever DM machinations, but, this would be the exception, not the rule.

what is the ratio? -2 damage per +1 AC?

edit: Oh I see it's one-to-one. I think 2-to-1 would be more fair. really good feat for a monk using Stunning Fist, eh?

Lemmy et el,
I agree that 1/4/8/12/16/20, or even 1/2/6/10/14/18/20 (and despite that capstones are de facto flavor abilities), would create a few exciting milestones in Cleric's career, done right.

Done right?
I am willing to cede that Cleric is not the most powerful class... but of the 30+ classes available, he is certainly in the top 20% (even conservatively), and thus adding options to an already powerful and flexible class without drawback or restraint is, to me, a bad design decision.

idea 1:
what if God determined Capstone, and Domains determined Granted Powers?...

idea 2:
what if WIS only did spells, and CHA only did Granted Powers (including Channel)? - you know, have the 'take away' be the imposition of MADness (not the domain)...?

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