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or, you could call the new ability score a speed bonus, at a simple 5:1 ratio, but enforce minimums/maximums of half/double the creature's base speed (by race).

humans (base 30) would have a 15 foot minimum (at score 1-5), 60 foot maximum (at score 22+).

just trying to work around the X/day paradigm of resource management specifically

currently exploring action economy as opportunity cost

been thinking about immediate actions a lot. the Borrowing Against Future Actions (BAFA) concept in particular. so, what about this?

version 5:

Bravery (alternate 5):


A 2nd level fighter can shrug off effects that would daunt lesser mortals. As an immediate action, he may re-roll a failed saving throw, taking a +1 bonus to the re-roll. Whether or not the re-rolled save succeeds, he may may not take a move action or a full-round action the following round.

At 6th level, and again every four fighter levels, he gains an additional +1 bonus to the re-roll, to a maximum of +5 at 18th level.



Whirling Feint (Ex):
Whenever the bravo attempts to feint a foe he threatens, he may instead attempt a feint against all foes who are currently flanking him as part of the same action. He gains a bonus to his check equal to the number of foes flanking him, and uses the same die roll to check against each foe separately.

next idea.

another reason i suggested splitting Technique from Focus was to yield the idea of a 'resting technique' which would consistently grant it's skill bonuses without using up the rounds/level/day resource. i think it also has RP potential: "look at him, he walks like a [rolls Knowledge check] Lannish, puffing his chest all out..."

mechanics for switching techniques unchanged (swift action, uses 1 'round/level/day' point) - essentially the last technique you used lingers and becomes your resting technique (unless you dismiss it [free action], thus having no resting technique, no bonuses, but also no identifiable gait....)

plus, just as Silveri is somewhat an exception, (VM mercenario's) Martinez could be an exception by allowing the initiative bonus to be passively granted (so as to be actually useful without needing Rapid Adaptation) in place of or in addition to the passive skill bonuses.

maybe add Disengaging Flourish to 6th level bonus feat list?


VM mercenario wrote:
Debilitating Strikes are harder to do because it has to be an effect that last between three and ten rounds, so it can't be used to daze, confuse, sttager, stun or do a free maneuver.

this is an excellent point. maybe the uniform duration can be lifted, and instead each effect can have it's own individual duration, so to allow for a greater diversity of effects possible? (stunned for 5 rounds sucks!)

i like your Styles VM mercenario!

half precision damage is weird. maybe an Elan point upon scoring a critical check can enable multiplicity on successful confirmation?

you are probably right about the renaming. but it makes better sense in my head lol.

also, sure, you can use every available action to feint, but then you can't attack in the same round. my suggestion for Whirling Feint, whether explicit or not, was to enable a multi-feint as part of a move action or a swift action (for 1 Elan the latter). thus, interactivity with both Feint and Elan. that was my intent. and, to either 'each adjacent opponent' or 'upon successfully feinting an adjacent for, you may feint another adjacent foe as a free action' (like Cleave). or something. finally, i don't think you can normally feint at range. if you want to include that ability (which imo isn't 'in-theme'), you'd have to add it in specifically.

what are you going to do about the skill timeframes? especially if you include some of the new styles/techniques?

i retract the 'damage is boring' comment. Excaliburproxy is right. cheers.

doubly feinted:
bravo succeeds at feinting a foe whose DX bonus was already denied relative to him.

so, feinting a foe during the surprise round (who doesn't have Uncanny Dodge), or, using a swift feint (a la Elan) and then a move feint (a la Improved Feint) both successfully before attacking a foe.

Excaliburproxy is advocating DPR, i am advocating Battlefield Control and Debuffing.

imagine this:


Bravo Table

01- 1st Fighting Technique, Technique Focus, Bravo Style
02- Bonus Feats, AC Bonus
03- Engaging Feint, Debilitating Strike
04- Elan
05- 2nd Fighting Technique
06- Bonus Feat, Compound Attack
07- Whirling Feint
08- Amazing Elan
09- 3rd Fighting Technique
10- Bonus Feat, Blend Techniques
11- Improved Compound Attack
12- Deadly Strike
13- 4th Fighting Technique
14- Bonus Feat
15- Rapid Adaptation
16- Greater Compound Attack
17- 5th Fighting Technique
18- Bonus Feat
19- True Elan
20- Master of Five Technique

Fighting Style:
renamed. skill bonus persist for 1 hour after last focus.

Technique Focus:
divorced to be named discreetly. this refers to the rounds/day mechanic. you 'know' a fighting style, you 'activate' your focus. clarity here makes blending techniques (see later) easier to describe.

Bravo Style:
renamed Opportune Attack + Feint. clarify 'bravo weapons' here. i would add a 'free' attack of opportunity mechanic here. maybe +INT. or +1 per three bravo levels (minimum +1). something.

Debilitating Strike:
this bread and butter ability (combined with Engaging Feint) comes online earlier. each technique offers two basic status effects that trigger against DX-denied + opportunity-attacked foes. increased status effects come online later (see Deadly Strike).

Whirling Feint:
the 'area feint' ability. either building off of Compound Attack, or functioning similar to Whirlwind Attack or Cleave. something here. this is the (mass) battlefield control coming online at 7th.

Blend Techniques:
earlier, but limited to two, access to using multiple techniques simultaneously. this is essentially a new option added to Focus Technique.

Deadly Strike:
instead of increasing multiplier (boring!), each technique offers expanded options here. either increasing status effects by a degree (shaken > frightened, etc), or allowing a damage spike (rend?), or some other option (slowed, stunned, other ideas). this is essentially a new option added to Debilitating Strike.

Master of Five Techniques:
bravo may exist in all five techniques simultaneously and without increased Elan cost. bam!




fox - no AoO (^flat-footed), skill penalty
cobra - sickened (^nauseated), entangled
wolf - AC drop (^no withdraw/5-ft step), rend damage
lion - shaken (^frightened), lower spell resistance
hare - fatigued (^exhausted), confused

so, upon a feinted foe, bravo may choose to apply one basic status effect with a successful attack of opportunity. upon a doubly feinted foe, bravo may choose two status effects, or a greater status effect (denoted = "^"), etc. if the bravo is using multiple techniques, he may select from multiple lists.

also, as we are now discussing Area Feints again, Compound Attack might be one clever way to deliver that mechanic. we may also consider Elan (swift feint), a new mechanic entirely, incorporation into Engaging Feint (thus granting access at 3rd) or expansion into Deadly Strike (costing Elan?), or re-working Debilitating Feint, or a combination thereof.

nit-pick: i noticed that Fighting Techniques grants both a +2 to attack and a +2 to CMB while in wolf - thus a +4. intentional? pretty significant at 1st level methinks...


i capitalize sometimes to make a Noun out of a Concept. 'Layers of Feint' was speaking to your's and Excaliburproxy's discussion about Compound Attack and complexity and damage, etc. i am essentially suggesting interactivity between it and Debilitating Feint (and expanding the latter).

toss the 'bravo weapons' idea? substitute "while fighting with one hand free", changing the locus from the implement to the lack of one.

Bravo Style (renamed Opportune Attack):
Whenever the bravo fights with one of his hands free, he gains a number of advantages. First, he may make an additional number of attacks of opportunity equal to his Intelligence modifier. Second, he benefits from the Improved Feint feat. Thirdly, he gains a bonus to damage equal to his bravo level when making attacks of opportunity, or when his opponent is denied his Dexterity bonus to AC.

also, what about renaming 'styles' to 'techniques' for discreetness?

lastly, the timeframe of rounds/level duration of focusing technique and certain skills (Disguise, Knowledge Local, etc) seems out of phase. kinda bugs me.

Layers of Feint - maybe instead of multiplying damage if you feint an opponent multiple times, you can select multiple conditions to afflict them with, based on school, which could be expanded to provide 2 or 3 each (under Debilitating Attack)?


i think full BAB plus all good saves in unfair. i would demote Reflex.

this guy is the 'lord' of what? beasts? men?

if beasts,
maybe the Energy Affinity lines (4/8/12/16/20) can be replaced with Summon Nature's Ally?

if men,
maybe Warrior's Calling can grant Favored Terrain bonuses to his allies?

maybe this could be a bond choice?

diggin' the ideas...

what if a HP threshold served as a trigger?

interested to see doc in full

i think Hide in Plain Sight as a 'regular' advanced talent is totally fair.

i rewrote basic and advanced rogue talents a short while back. curious your input if you have time.

namely that a Bravo with a 10 Dexterity doesn't really benefit from Combat Reflexes. it'd be nice if he could have access to additional attacks of opportunity granted from his class. for example, while in a Kata (bad name), he gains +2 AoA per round. plus it'd remove what might be considered a 'feat tax' from a DX-based Bravo.

the main difference between version 3 (immediate action) and version 4 (forfeiture) is subtle. they both intend to work into the action economy as a structural parameter.

to those confused about the 'limit' of version 3, by virtue of it being an immediate action, it is usable once per round, albeit crowded in with any other immediate or swift actions, per the standard rules governing those action types. so, a fighter's Bravery can be 'broken' with a volley of save-inducing attacks.

version 4, by contrast, is 'always on' unless the fighter chooses to lower it. thus, he always has the option to weather an incoming volley of save-inducing attacks, or, to forfeit the additional protection in lieu of performing a 'stunt'.

so, my question is, between the two, which version do you think is most suitable/playable/fun/whatever?

i mostly agree with Cerberus Seven

to tone it down, how about Reflex vs Attack roll?

Combat Reflexes
one of the reasons i have been so engaged with this class proposal is it’s level of ingenuity that combines both conceptual and mechanical flexibility. that you have so far succeeded in allowing bravo’s madness to be a feature and not a bug is impressive. but lately, there has been an increase in the interactivity between non-optional class features and the AoO as a mechanic. thus, in the spirit of maintaining that dynamic, I’d like to see an option for a 10-DX bravo to exploit that same niche.

Incentivizing vs punishing free-handing
as opposed to removing the benefits altogether, consider halving the benefits of Opportune Attack and AC Bonus (for example) when the bravo is wielding his weapon improperly.

Kata? (means “choreographed pattern of movements” or “form,” roughly)

Area feint
how about up to one threatened foe per INT/CHA modifier? or it could work like Cleave? (THAT'D BE COOL!)

Also, what about an ability that allowed a free-handing bravo to make a Bluff check to sub in for an Acrobatics checks made to avoid AoO’s provoked via movement? just came to me…


Ciaran Barnes, a couple more ideas.

"bravo weapons" - defined as simply "any light or one-handed melee" is clear enough. then, when it comes to using Opportune Attack, i would just say "when using a bravo weapon with at least one hand free," similar to how Deflect Arrows talks about freehanding.

Fighting Style, the rounds/day aspect, needs a name. something which captures the hyper-concentration aspect of it. also, as this class now has several mechanics utilizing AoOs, i think it'd be clever to grant an additional number of attacks of opportunity (per round) while using the as-yet-unnamed rounds/day ability. i could suggest either a +1 per two Bravo levels, or, an additional amount equal to Bravo's Intelligence bonus. either way, something that'd stack with Combat Reflexes (which, by the way, is conspicuously missing from your Bonus Feats list). finally, and especially because it makes no sense with Silveri, i wouldn't limit the bonuses granted to just one enemy; instead allow his 'focus' to be generalized - it is after all a finite resource. and, to point out, bonuses to Diplomacy, Disguise, and Knowledge (Local) kinda don't make sense to an ability that is measured in rounds. just sayin.

for Engaging Feint, i would consider flipping the style abilities above (no-AoO/stagger/AC-4/shaken/half-speed) right into the mechanic itself (at 3rd), and let your 7th level ability allow Bravo to roll a single 'area feint' against all adjacent enemies. this would allow him to exert a respectable amount of battlefield control. also, conceptually, i really like the Aldori, Broylin and Lannish exploitative measures. the other two do not seem as thematically linked to the animal spirit. maybe Hallov (wolf) can deny foes the 5-foot-step and withdraw actions, and Silveri (hare) can enforce a +5 DC increase to enemy concentration checks? or something.

if Surprise Maneuver is too good, you could restrict it even more by only allowing it to function against a feinted foe.

this is coming along well! cheers.


how about having each of your five schools grant a different exploitative measure usable against a feinted foe? for example:

fox - compulsion effect
cobra - stun effect
wolf - ?
lion - demoralize effect
hare - slow effect

i am deliberately leaving the mechanics unfleshed out. for example, whether or not there is interaction with Elan (a passive or active cost), exactly the nature of how the status effect is delivered (attack-proc effect? skill-combination? etc...), whether or not there is level-scaling (additional abilities, increased duration, etc), things like that.

to brainstorm on the possibilities of expanding Engaging Feint:

*if the ability was granted earlier, maybe the ability to do an 'area feint' could fill your 7-slot. you could use Dazzling Display as a model. or it could start at a limited radius (starting with all adjacent?) which grows over class levels.

*if you adopted the Grit mechanic per Ascalaphus's suggestion, an idea for recounting points could be when a feinted foe draws a successful AoO.

*similar to how rogue has strike talents, which trigger via sneak attack, there could be a line of exploitative abilities that trigger against feinted foes. either as menu options or as scheduled class features.

*i really like the idea that instead of forcing a foe to remain 'engaged' (a de facto compulsion effect - which, is not a terrible idea), that they are merely encouraged not to 'disengage' on pain of mechanical advantage. i'd like to see this concept expanded upon.


nice work. Bravo is at once flexible and distinct, both in concept and mechanics. i would totally play this class.

i really like the mechanics for Engaging Feint. it'd maybe be cool to see it come online earlier (than 7th) and maybe even set a baseline precedent for more interactivity between feinted foes and exploitative measures. just an idea, though definitely not needed.

are you going to run:

1d20+x vs 1d20+y

1d20+x vs 10+y

or 10+x vs 1d20+y

where x is the 'attacker' and y is the 'defender'?

if the first, there is no real precedence in the rules for it.
if the second, then all you are really doing is trading one complication for another (a 'touch AC' calculated slightly differently).
if the third, then using a touch attack against someone will feel like using a spell against them (save against this! ha ha).

sounds cool to me

well, your math is very square (13 x 4 = 52), and that may well be a design parameter that you very much like, as a way to give skills equal breadth, if at least from a structural standpoint.

i suppose my feedback is: consider abandoning the neat mathematical structure, and just maintain the difference between master skills and regular skills. and then restrict access via class.


Rogue has Acrobatics and Athletics, and may place standard ranks in them, effectively putting ranks in all 8 sub skills with a mere 2 skill points. whereas, Fighter has Athletics, Balance, Contort, Sneak, and Tumble on his class list, and must use 5 skill points to be equal to what a Rogue can do with just 2 skill points (ability scores being equal). whereas, Wizard has none of these skills, but may use 8 skill points to be near-equal (no +3 class bonus) to the Rogue and Fighter.

this could allow you to trim your list. just a thought. cheers.

there are 10 Knowledge skills (!), plus Appraise, Linguistics, Spellcraft, and many Craft skills. that's at least 14+ possible skills. plus traits which modify other skills to key off of INT.

i kind of like this rule i think. it echoes 1ed/2ed "# Bonus Languages"

if you do this, maybe offer a feat that grants +1 skill point per HD (similar to Toughness).

how about as a feat privilege?

got two from: Improved Grapple, Improved Trip, and/or Power Attack?

then you can perform a special Body Slam maneuver that trips and deals unarmed damage. if you are in control of a grapple, you may do so as a two-handed attack (x1.5 STR to damage).

Orich Starkhart,

first off thanks for the thoughtful feedback. my opinions about how i could see Bravery as providing a bonus to all saves, both cinematically and mechanically, were more or less spurred by this thread.

viz your question about alternate 3: yes. to any save. and yes, i might restore the 'fear good save' bit in the final version, whatever that turns out to be in this thread.

i am on the fence about whether to use a pool (i am a pool fan) for improving the Bravery ability. on the one hand, there is the line of thinking that the fighter oughtn't have any class abilities based on a finite resource (aside from action economy, of course), and on the other, the pool mechanic is an elegant mechanic that works for many classes. so i am divided about it.

the forfeiture mechanic functions similarly to a 1-point pool which renews every round - an on/off switch, or 'chip' - hence obviating the need to use arithmetic to track the resource. thus i feel it might serve as a nice middle ground. and equally as meta-gamey as a 'real' pool.

Orich Starkhart,

concerning the 'fluff' of Bravery (version 4), i mostly disagree. two examples: against dragon's breath, a 'reflex' save, the brave fighter lifts his shield up and presses on against the heat. against domination, the brave fighter's singularity of purpose proves to be a form of mental armor. given the structure of rules as rules, it's easy to fall into being 'mechanical' in our thinking about them. but i see less of a disconnect between being 'brave' and only having that represent the ability to stave off the 'fear' descriptor. but it is also true my interpretation is fueled by my desire to strengthen the bravery mechanic significantly.

but i take you point. it might be clever to restore an explicit advantage over fear effects independent of the flat bonus.

also, any positive feedback (suggestions) given with negative feedback (critique) is also appreciated.

for example, looking back over version 4, i am reconsidering the condition-removal stunts. thinking instead: 10th (full attack + move), 14th (negate crit), 18th (auto-save). i am shuffling ideas for the 6th level stunt...

...or on the concept of forfeiture itself?


i had an idea about a way to pseudo-model a Grit resource without actually using the pool mechanic. specifically, the passive aspect and the concept of forfeiture (think "so long as you retain 1 point in your pool...") rooted in the action economy.

essentially, i want the forfeiture to matter, so i'm going to propose that Bravery be a flat bonus to all saves (+1/2/3/4/5 at 2nd/6th/10th/14th/18th) but that can be forfeited for 1 round to allow the fighter to perform special actions (which will 'unlock' at 6th/10th/14th/18th) which justify the tradeoff.

seeking your feedback! especially in the creating/selecting/ordering of the special actions. heregoes:

Bravery (alternate 4):


At 2nd level, a fighter gains a +1 morale bonus to all saving throws. This bonus increases by +1 every four fighter levels thereafter, to a maximum of +5 at 18th level. As the fighter gains levels, he may forfeit this bonus for 1 round to perform special actions called 'stunts' - stunts are activated as a swift action unless otherwise noted.

A 6th level fighter may forfeit his bravery bonus to temporarily suppress the effects of lesser conditions which afflict him: for 1 round he is unnaffected by the exhausted, fatigued, shaken, and sickened conditions. He must wait 1 round before repeating this stunt.

A 10th level fighter may forfeit his bravery bonus to perform a full attack and move his base speed in the same round. He must wait 1 round before repeating this stunt.

A 14th level fighter may forfeit his bravery bonus to temporarily suppress the effects of more severe conditions which afflict him: for 1 round he is unnaffected by the dazed, disabled, frightened, nauseated, panicked, staggered, and stunned conditions. He must wait 1 round before repeating this stunt.

An 18th level fighter may forfeit his bravery bonus to automatically succeed on a single saving throw. This stunt is activated as an immediate action, and the fighter must declare he is doing so instead of rolling dice.



sounds interesting. please post?

1st level Bard with 1 HP left trying to cast Cure Light Wounds on himself is playing Russian Roulette with an 8-shooter. lolz.

the 'spontaneous rebate' kinda goes against the mathematic kiss principle that implicitly underlies this entire proposal.

maybe instead they get a HP boost? either increased HD or they sub their casting stat for bonus HP?

or maybe (some? all?) casters begin each encounter with a small mana pool (slightly bigger for spontaneous) which absorbs casting strain (kinda like temporary HP) prior to tapping their HP?

this could be Casting Stat x Highest Spell Slot, double for spontaneous?

Hodge Podge,

to account for the fact that some ordinary earthlings can speak many languages, and without resorting to the feat system reflexively, what if high Intelligence characters could float ranks in separate langues for each point of INT mod?

ex: 2nd level 18-INT character, puts 2 skill point in Linguistics, yields 2x4 = 8 total ranks to be spent amongst different languages.

an idea, to clean up the ranks > HD mess, you could revert to the 3ed rank paradigm, where starting with 1-4 ranks in a language doesn't break format. just a thought.

Detect Magic,
your version is indeed much more streamlined.

i suppose i'd like to make a hard separation between Ki Strike (Ex) and Ki Pool (Su).

so, Ki Strike doesn't actually need Ki, and maintains the 4/7/10/16 progression (which i like):

Ki Strike (version 3):


At 4th level, a monk may ignore up to 5 points of damage reduction or hardness with his unarmed strikes, regardless of it's type. This is an extraordinary ability.

At 7th level, he may ignore up to 10 points of damage reduction or hardness with his unarmed strikes.

At 10th level, he may ignore up to 15 points of damage reduction or hardness with his unarmed strikes.

At 16th level, the monk may completely ignore damage reduction and hardness with his unarmed strikes, regardless of it's type or amount.


i will post a Ki Pool alternate at some point with enhancement bonus included.

intrigued but cannot access?

Remco Sommeling,

the list essentially contains 'compound' rogue skills (skills which used to be 2-3 skills in 3ed) and magicky skills. they might be suitable for a fighter, but would require more concentrated training (in my opinion) to become really excellent at. that, and they are damn useful skills, so i command a higher 'price' for them.

also, concerning your last suggestion, check out version 2 above

Reflex DCs to avoid Surprise:

use the Perception DCs listed under that skill?

10/15 if both sides are not sneaking and both unawares?

10+Stealth against the rogue creeping up on you?

skills scale much faster than saving throws, but saving throws auto-fail/succeed on 1/20, so is this fair?

well, it lets a fighter apply WF (WS, GWF, GWS) to more than just a group of weapons, say a greatsword or a longbow or a glaive, at no 'cost' between encounters, and at the cost of a standard action during an encounter.

the goal is to increase versatility with limited feat selection. now if he finds a magic weapon lying on the ground, he can pick it up and take a few practice swings, recalling some specialized military training he had (or just applying a god-given knack) with the weapon.

i considered allowing the ability to totally negate the non-proficiency penalties for using unfamiliar weapons too. like, the fighter can attack without penalty using any weapon, but he is still non-proficient with the weapon, thus he couldn't apply his WF to it, using 'denial of bonuses' rather than 'application of penalties' to encourage use of proficient weapons.

what do you guys think of that last bit?

Zhayne wrote:
I just give fighters 4 skill points per level and add Acrobatics, Bluff, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive to their skill list as a base house rule.

Cavalier/Samurai gets Bluff, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive, but loses Dungeoneering, Engineering, and Survival.

anywho, considering Ascalaphus' feedback:

Professional (version 1.5):


A 1st level fighter may choose 2-5 additional skills to be class skills, to represent their varied training both in and out of formal military institutions. He may choose only 2 skills if both of them are contained on the 'restricted' list below, or 3 skills if only one of them is. Otherwise, he may choose 4 skills. If he chooses only Knowledge skills, he may instead select a total of 5 skills.

The list of restricted skills is as follows: Acrobatics (Dex), Disable Device (Dex), Perception (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Stealth (Dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha).


renamed + granted WF for free + a little more clear + explicit esp. concerning TWFing

Weapon Focus (1st level added feature):


The fighter gains Weapon Focus as a bonus feat. As a standard action, he may switch the weapon the feat affects to the weapon he is currently wielding - if he is wielding two different weapons, the feat now grants a bonus to both so long as the fighter wields both weapons simultaneously. This change is permanent until he uses this ability again.

When the fighter switches his focus above, he may also switch one other feat that has weapon focus as a prerequisite for every four fighter levels he possesses. These feats now apply to the weapon (or weapon 'combo') the fighter is currently wielding. This change is permanent until he uses this ability again.

At 5th level, whenever the fighter switches his focus to a weapon for which he has the appropriate Weapon Training group, he may instead do so as a swift action.




lets say regardless of what you do with Perception (break it back into Search/Listen/Spot, replace it with other skills entirely, etc), that you certainly eliminate the 'negate surprise' function altogether, replacing it with a Reflex save.

what might this look like? for example, interaction with Stealth? or, if nobody is intentionally 'sneaking' - how do you determine surprise?


Laurefindel wrote:
If you like the idea of Perception as saving throw but don't want to create a 4th save, fold perception into Reflex. Typically, the classes granting good Ref would be those you'd give good perception.

what does this look like? (keeping it as Reflex)

Segallion wrote:
Knowledge Checks to ID Creatures: We created a way for this to work that incorporates how badly you beat out the roll by giving you Knowledge points that you can then spend on the creatures stat block to learn various items. In addition, based upon your class you get one piece of info on a successful check.

curious to know more...

overall i like some of the creative stuff you got here. also i like the suggestion to have Featherstep remain active round-round, increasing it's range, at a ki cost. an elegant suggestion.

i think you underestimate how cool all good saves is, +2/+2/+2 to Fort/Ref/Will, coupled with +1 BAB, coupled with Unarmed Strike and Stunning Fist and another bonus feat, coupled with an armor bonus of +4 at no check penalty, coupled with +10 movement. if it were me, i'd cut back atleast two of those things. it's too good. like shifting the bonus feats to 2/6/10/14/18, and maybe making it cost a feat to get Stunning Fist (rather than getting it for free).

ki powers:
maybe you misunderstood me, but i didn't suggest full 4-level progression, i suggested 1 power per level starting when the monk gains his ki pool at 4th level (so, 17 total ki powers by level 20). these are initially 1st level powers, but the option to select 2nd/3rd/4th level powers comes at 7th/10th/13th level. the chassis is borrowed from full-BAB casters, but the mechanic is different. what balances this is the fact that the monk's actual ki pool in constrained, making lower-level powers more desirable for their lower cost.

diamond soul:
is a very cool ability. i think the occasional sacrifice of an immediate action is a fair price to pay for such flexibility. the beauty of the immediate action lowering is that you can do it right as an ally is casting a beneficial spell on you, and then on your initiative count it re-raises for free. besides, i think a limited ki pool takes some of the pressure off of the action economy in a roundabout way concerning swift actions, and it gives the monk another tool to weigh the risk/reward of accepting a multi-round buff versus taking a single extra attack/move/dodge, etc.


some thoughts.

you give out too much at 1st level. full BAB plus all saves is a significant temptation to dip. plus a feat. can i suggest you streamline the bonus feats like ranger's style feats? 2/6/10/14/18.

agreed with comments about proficiency. 'simple + monk + shortsword + shortbow' will do (you can drop that last one of you like).

i like the Ki powers. i would consider granting them one power every level beginning with 4th level, at the progression of other full-BAB casters (1st at 4/5/6, 2nd at 7/8/9, 3rd at 10/11/12, 4th at 13+), on a more restricted list (Cleric's is a good suggestion), at a cost equal to spell level. still a very finite amount, especially given the other pool abilities.

i would restore WIS to AC. require investment.

Diamond Soul: the suggestion to 'lower as immediate, re-raise as free' is much better than the slippery definition on friendly spells. it also grants a window to enemies to ready an action to hit the monk who lowers his resistance 'just for a second', while still demanding less sacrifice overall.

maybe the fast healing bit can last for one minute?

more later


what if the Vital Strike feat allowed a standard action to grant +2d6 precision dice to a single attack (scaling to 4d6 at BAB 11, 6d6 at BAB 16), or allowed any sneak attack dice the user already has to be substituted instead?

that way it's useful for all classes and especially rogues.

what if Ki Strike were split into extraordinary DR-bypass and supernatural enhancement?

Ki Strike (version 2):


At 4th level, a monk may ignore up to 5 points of damage reduction or hardness with his unarmed strikes, regardless of it's type. At 7th level, this increases to 10 points, and again to 15 points at 10th level. When the monk reaches 16th level, he may completely ignore damage reduction and hardness with his unarmed strikes, regardless of it's type or amount. This is an extraordinary ability.

The monk's unarmed strikes are also empowered by his ki. So long as he retains at least one point in his ki pool, he gains a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls for every four monk levels he possesses, to a maximum of +5 at 20th level. This is a supernatural ability.



expanding specialization without deepening it.

Weapon Affinity (new class feature):


A 1st level fighter who possesses the Weapon Focus feat may switch it to the weapon(s) he is currently wielding as a standard action. This ability does not actually grant Weapon Focus as a feat - a fighter must take this feat normally to gain the benefits of this ability.

At 5th level, a fighter may also switch any feat that has Weapon Focus as a prerequisite to the weapon(s) he is currently wielding as a full-round action, so long as the number of feats (including Weapon Focus) switched doesn't exceed half his fighter level.

Finally, if the weapon(s) the fighter is wielding fall under a group for which he has the weapon training class feature, he may perform any of the above actions as a swift action instead.



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two suns, two years, alternating, short year and long year, around the little sun and the big sun - making a pear-shaped 'infinity-sign' orbit over a single Bisolar Arc

the little sun in 'hot', the big sun is 'cold'

those born on the Solar Equidox (when the planet is 'switching gears' between primary and secondary orbits) are considered Lucid Messengers

if a short year has X many days/months/year, a long year ought to have 3X

the month during the long year where the planet is most distant from the sun, and the inhabitants pray for the Dreaming God to have sad dreams, sending the rains down upon their crops in what is otherwise the seasonal bottleneck of agricultural production, can be called the month of Rainzax

two minor changes. would you take these now?

Rogue Crawl (Ex): While prone, a rogue with this ability can move at half speed. This movement provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. A rogue with this talent can take a 5-foot step while crawling. Finally, she only suffers half the usual penalties to her attack rolls and AC while fighting from a prone position. If a rogue with this talent also has the stand up talent, she instead suffers no such penalties while prone.

Stand Up (Ex): A rogue with this talent may stand up from prone as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity from foes who threaten her. She only suffers half the usual penalties to her attack rolls and AC while fighting from a prone position. If a rogue with this talent also has the rogue crawl talent, she instead suffers no such penalties while prone.

also, arguably the most thematic rogue combat maneuver:

Combat Swipe (Ex): A rogue with this talent may substitute her Sleight of Hand skill bonus in for her CMB when performing a steal combat maneuver.

because i allow Combat Trick to grant Improved Steal as a bonus feat... see above posts... considering allowing the skill-as-CMB as a basic talent for both dirty trick and reposition, the other most rogue-y maneuvers... ur thoughts?

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did some more tweaking. wanted skill mastery (taking 10) to kick in earlier. also reversed the cause-effect relationship between sneak attack and combat maneuvers: the former now triggers the latter. rather than vice-versa (from version two, above). feels like a smoother pool mechanic now. changes in blue. enjoy.

Execution Pool (version 3):


At 3rd level, a rogue gains an 'execution pool' with a number of points in it equal to her Intelligence bonus (if any) plus half her rogue level (rounded down). This pool represents the rogue's cunning and prowess in the skilled execution of various tasks as well as the uncanny knack to exploit openings in her foes' defenses.

When first gaining this pool, the rogue selects one skill she is trained in to be her first 'execution skill.' So long as the rogue retains at least one point in her execution pool, she may always opt to take 10 on skill checks with that skill, even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so. If she instead expends one execution point before performing the skill check, she may roll twice and take the better result. Doing so is a free action. The rogue may choose another trained skill to be an execution skill every odd rogue level after 3rd level (at 5th, 7th, 9th, etc).

In addition, when the rogue rolls a critical threat, she may immediately expend one execution point. If her confirmation roll succeeds, she may add her sneak attack dice to the damage roll, if she hasn't already. This causes the 'crit' to count as a sneak attack - such as for the purpose of applying strike talents. Activating this ability may be done once per round as a swift or immediate action.

Finally, when the rogue successfully deals sneak attack damage, she may expend one execution point to immediately perform a combat maneuver against her foe as a free action. The rogue does not provoke an attack of opportunity when using this ability, nor does it preclude her from utilizing any strike talents she may possess.

The execution pool is replenished each morning after 8 hours of rest or relaxation (playing cards, shooting dice, counting silver, etc); these hours do not need to be consecutive.

some system out there has some mechanic by which each time you fail the same day, it gets cumulatively harder to cast that same day.

i can't remember it exactly but say you have to beat DC 10 + spell level using 1d20 + caster level + casting stat. each time you fail, your DC to cast that day rises by 1. since this isn't a 'skill' a '1' always fails. the DC resets after you sleep and pray again.

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