I think that inquisitor is probably the benchmarks you SHOUD be aiming for in class design. Able to cover multiple roles good damage good defenses spells and skills and IMO the best part it doesn't require a PHD in character building to be effective AND it cant be min maxed to the nth degree(with a few exceptions). Its a clunky looking class whose abilities seem like a grab bag but they all work together.
Chris Parker wrote:
Is it just me, or would Monk/Gunslinger have been a better combo for this? Flurry with light or one handed bladed weapons as long as you have at least one Panache, Charisma to AC, good saves all around, and bonus Improved Manoeuvre feats without Combat Expertise required (but you still need it for Greater, as with the Monk). Replace Precise Strike with Charisma to damage, and you have a good reason to go DEX/CHA instead of pure STR.
I agree it ain't gonna happen but your class is much better
round here its for the saves and either crane or snake
this is a great idea and neatly solves the problem
so as long as the weapon is made of antler its ok. Kind of a weird mandate but small flavor decisions made long before the class was written should define this class.
still waiting on the flavor backstory on any other diety weapon. If its such a fundemental part of their religion it shouldn't be a problem for you to get with your mighty subscription.
but that would violate flavor
Give them cha to damage and as a bonus on saves for a panache. The developers cant argue that cha is an overpowered Stat since its the most popular dump Stat in the game. Allow parry and reposte to work exactly like crane style with the ability to parry multiple attacks as you level. Add the following and lose the ability to take fighter only feats and it should be fixed IMO.
While I agree about dex to damage it probably ain't gonna happen as I stated earlier the core developers think dex to damage is a balanced MYTHIC feat. Every dex to damage option come from Golarion specific books written by a seperate team who disagree and get "their" way on Golarion specific books. But this isn't a golarion specific book. While the above is a massive simplification of the process its also true.
Ran a 5th level playtest with the iconics wizard fighter and bard. Compared against a cleric inquisitor and paladin. All worshipped imodea(sp I'm at work and cant look it up. Longsword paladin god)
Barring something really strange happening the dervish dance fix aint gonna happen. the design team think that dex to damage is worth a mythic feat and the Golarion design team(who disagree about dex to damage) are where both dervish dance and agile come from since this is a core book it wont be changed.
Mechanically the Brawler is better class. Except for people who want the mystic flavor for a few niche concepts/builds. I actually feel like it does a.lot of that to the fighter as well but leaves a few more viable concepts than the monk.
sorry but most people wouldn't complain about it to your face. Most people who get together to game are trying to have a good.time and even in a hobby with a Rep as acerbic as ours they wouldn't say anything unless you got them killed but they may have resented having to pull your weight in a combat enviornment like PFS. I agree in a home.game anything goes because your gm and other players can build accordingly.I'm not saying this is what definately happened but not getting negative feedback to your face isn't a great yardstick.
yeah there is a lot of room for tweaks to make the build more optimal. It was for a sword and dagger fencer for flavor, but twin kukri's would work
Copied it from lord malkov, but its a great 2 weapon fencer rogue build
You can get 3 extra feats along the way from the Rogue Talents 'Feat' and 'Combat Trick' and 1 for being human.
So the basic plan is to use Two-Weapon Feint to feint against your target. A successful feint allows you to make a swift action performance combat check. Performance combat lets you treat any combat like a performance, which is why I liked it for my swashbuckler. With Hero's Display, on a successful performance check you can make a free check to Intimidate everyone within 30 ft.
Then you make your attacks against your target. Your earlier feint made him flat-footed to your first attack, so you get sneak attack damage. If this attack hits, it also activates Shatter Defenses on that target making him flat-footed to your attacks until the end of your next turn. So all subsequent attacks also get sneak attack damage.
It was pretty effective and I had a lot of fun with it.
Key item here is a Circlet of Persuasion which will give you a +3 competence bonus on Charisma based checks (only costs 4500gp) this will work for feints, intimidates AND performance checksIf you don't care about finding traps you can always take the Rake archtype as well which will give you a bonus on bluff checks. This is the way I went. You also get a fallback sneak attack ability that lets you intimidate on a sneak attack. I would also put charisma up to 14 at 8th instead of pumping dex again.
In the early levels you'll need to rely more on flanking. The build doesn't truly come together until level 9 when you take shatter defenses, but at that point you should have 9 rank in intimidate, +3 for class skill, +2 for charisma and +3 for circlet of persuasion. That is +17 to beat 10+ 1/2 HD + wisdom modifier.
At level 10, lets say you have a +4 dexterity belt, the CoP, and a pair of +1 weapons. That puts you at 24 Dex (+7). Obviously you might have better weapons at this point, but this is a baseline example.
So your full attack looks like this
Rapier = +14/+9
The Full Attack Sequence is:
(2) If successful, Performance Check (DC 20). You get +2 for charisma, +3 for the circlet, +2 for your BAB, +2 for Hero's Display, and +2 for your performance ranks. So you need to roll a 9. This continues to get easier as time goes on.
(3) If successful, make a check to intimidate all enemies within 30ft. at +18 vs. 10+ 1/2 HD + Wisdom Mod. (again, avg of about DC 20 at this level).
(3a) If unsuccessful, make your attack against target's flat-footed AC. On hit, activate Bravado's Blade spending 2 dice. You will deal 4d6 damage and make an intimidate check at +23 versus just that target.
(4) Continue with the rest of your attacks against the now flat footed target. Each hit will add +5d6 damage and give you a +5 dodge bonus to your armor class.
In subsequent rounds you can forgo the feint and just keep intimidating your nearby enemies with performance and shattering their defenses. The second full attack against that single target can result in 22d6+2d4 damage overall, and as you gain levels past 10, you can start to pick up other sneak attack talents that let you deal str/dex dmg or add bleed damage to your hits.
The only struggle for this character is being able to land hits against heavily armored enemies... but for me this made sense for a fencer. As you get higher in level and have access to better weapons and stat items this does get easier.
Broken Zenith wrote:
While I understand what you are saying I think you misrepresented part of your critique on the other classes. I don't know enough about inquisitors to comment on that build, but IMO here are some errors on the others1. the Ranger. Comparing that particular Ranger build to a rogue is like comparing a rogue to a cavalier and saying that the rogue is suboptimal because it doesn't have a mount. Ranger DPR should include things like the animal companion's DPR(which this particular build doesn't really use) on top of the fact that it gives up spells. IMO a Ranger to compare to a Rogue would be one that was scouting/skill focused.
Take that same ranger reduce his dex a little giving him a 12 int(because of the level chose he doesnt even lose any to hit and assuming a 20 point buy) he suddenly ramps up to 8 skillpoints/level(including favored class) 9 if human 10 if he takes the human specific feat that grants him an extra skill point which he can because he lost all those mounted feats. stops treating the wolf like a mount to add in its dpr bringing him up to 28 ish more its a FE or he uses his spells(like instant enemy, gravity bow, or the eye of the hawk) So its a significant bump in DPR(especially in a boss fight where he can buff) over the rogue with more like 96/108/120 skill points
2. The Bard actually has 24 more skill points thanks to versatile performer and Buffs like a madman making the entire party better so the increase in everyone else's DPR is properly given to the bard.
Just my 2 cents YMMV
it produces the same affect. Its NOT the same. If if was the same it would be faster to copy spells or it wouldn't be faster with assistance. To go back to my metaphor every skilled musician can hit a high C not everyone of them can incorporate that into an extemporaneous solo or use that to write a masterpiece.
Dont forget its an earthlike world where ridiculoulsy powerful being(outsiders gods your pick of aberations) are all making sure that things dont change to much(they dont want them too for their own reasons) is just as valid an argument. Its the old gunpowder doesn't work on greyhawk because the gods say so.
first you cant compare divine spells because those are set by the gods and if erastil doesn't want to grant a better cure light wounds you don't get a better version no matter how long. Once again you are locked into the idea that magic is science/technology its not. There probably have been wizards who had better versions of these spells (mythic casters) the issue is that the better version of the spells cant be used by lesser wizards. IMO magic is like music rather than science. Most musicians can play a song that others have written but how many can write a masterpiece while performing solos that other musicians cant duplicate. You forget that these spells have to be rediscovered/rewritten by literally every caster every time.
The thing that all of you that are saying that things would be more advanced are missing is that things are amazingly advanced. Its just personally advanced instead of societal advancement. PC types have access to the ability to teleport be raised from the dead instant healing wands/staffs that alter reality in a thousand ways personal flight in potion form cloning planar travel swords and arrows that could literally cut through battle ship steel like its butter. Magic in the context of PF makes the individual more powerful not society. Think of it as the differeance between real world tech and the technology that superheroes have access too. The stuff the fantastic four and iron man have access to is ridiculously more advanced but its personal because they don't want to/don't trust everyone to have access to it.
Sound to me like you picked the wrong part of Golarion. Their are a lot of places that fit a lot of what you are looking for but it sounds like you want to play in medeival Europe. Golarion is at the end of the Renaissance not the medieval period. Its also a world where magic is every bit as powerful as muscle there probably would be equality because women would just turn to magic. Add in the fact that on Golarion women are statistically equal to men being just as strong tough etc etc. If that's a deal breaker make your own world.
the point of the warpriest IMO is to provide a paladinesque niche for the other 7 alignments. As for the argument that cleric can fill this role a cleric could fill the paladin role as well. Still gets a lot of play
You have a very effective build, but have you thought about hexcrafter magus. You can spell combat with your hair, you get your hexes back, AND once you reach 6th level you can take an arcana that would allow spell combat with your witch spells as well. Basically you would be a full caster who can also gish at range with your hair for tons of damage or stacks a lot of debuff affects while still having great save or suck utility out of your hexes.
Guide to early entry with Spell-like abilities has been updated.
You might want to list spell less entry into Dragon Disciple its a great dip for pure martial even without spells.
1.You can't take PA at first level you have to have a +1 BAB to qualify. Instead move arcane strike to your first level feat and move PA to your bonus feat if you need it
no alignment restrictions
Prof in all weapons that possess the monk special ability
ki points count as power points for the purpose of psionic feats . Psionic feats that have anything to do with casting are banned.
All monks possess the master of many styles ability to keep up multiple stances
Expand bonus feats to include the "psionic" feats, punishing kick, elemental fist, perfect weapon, dimensional agility chain, and style feats. Style feats must be selected in order and elemental fist(if applicable) before going up the feat chain. May freely trade out stunning fist for a different bonus feat off this list.
at 3rd level may choose to use wisdom instead of str for hit
may flurry with any weapon that they are proficient with. Two handed weapon do not receive bonus str damge from being wielded 2 handed while flurrying
may take improved natural attack monster feat
when using Ki to add to movement may move (Ki added movement only) as an immediate action
May qualify for Psychic Fist prestige class may not take powers from other psionic lists
Quigong Monk may trade out a 4th level power in return for Sohei ability to use Ki to enhance unarmed attacks/weapon and the power lasts rnds/lvl. This is an untyped bonus. Most archetype abilities are available as a feat.
New feat Extra quigong
other changes that benefit monks
Brawling may be added to bracers
feats auto scale so if you posses the greater version the improved version is given for free at appropriate level
may attack at any time during move and continue to move
no size exclusions for combat maneuvers
weapon finesse is no longer a feat, but instead a weapon quality that all finessable weapons possess.
Dex to damage with certain weapon preq 3 acrobatics +2 BAB weapon focus in particular 1 handed or light weapon. Wielder may use dex to hit instead of strength even if the weapon doesn’t have the finesse quality and adds dex to damage with that weapon.
1 buffed the monk by adding specific archetype abilities to base class. MOMS and Sohei expanded bonus feat list to include style feats. Included psionic feats for any class with ki
Roughly a 75% chance to hit the average AC for a monster 2 level above while doing about 1/4 to 1/3 of its HP on a full attack with enough AC and HP to survive close to 2 full attacks, scouting with knowledge skills & the ability to deal with traps, deliver significant debuff to multiple opponents or deliver some form of decent battlefield control.
Like I responded earlier to another build the AC of CR 12-14(decent fights for the CR) is 27/29 which means your best attack only lands 55% of the time against a 12. I know that 10 times/day you get 2 rolls but that's still your best attacks. The others are gonna be even worse.
My wife has the computer and the kindle doesn't handle the PFsrd very well. So I had to cut the research short.
right the class as a whole improves. Every druid can use.natural spell. Every decent combat feat improves every fighter. The decent monk archetypes rewrite the class into something that doesn't fit the fluff so many are looking for. Yes order of the bow is great but is it great or is archery the best style in the game. Sohei is good but its mainly fighter abilities bolted onto a modified monk Chasis. Quigong is good but not great. Its best abilities only allow you to catch up on the NA bonus your bad amulet took out or grant you a couple of evocation spells.
average monster ac for CR12-14 is 27 to 29. Which means against a decent monster you have a 55% chance of hitting. Unfortunately that's where the idea of flurry of misses comes.from.
The problem is that the two camps are using the same word, but have completely different definitions from camp to camp. The monk is fine camp are referring to the class as it exists in the game. The archetypes of that class work and work well so what's the problem. Those in the monk needs help/monks suck(its unfortunate that such a large group is unfortunately in only one camp) use the word monk to mean either a shaolin monk or a mobile wushish skirmisher who's best weapon is his unarmed body. The fluff suggests that monk class should be what the second camp expects, but its not. All of those concepts are better served by another class. The problem seems to be that those in the first camp always seem to miss it when those of us in the second camp say monk's suck, but they have good archetypes. Then get confused when the thread reaches the inevitable building phase and they produce a tiefling/aasimar(if a build doesn't work with mutiple races then the race is cool not the class) archetype monk and we say that's not what we were talking about. We mean that the class doesn't fit its fluff/expectation. While the other side says the archetypes(which aren't that mobile skirmisher mystic in a robe) work just fine.
Also if you create a sensei it should be compared to support classes like full casters and bard. while it has some unique abilities the others is often much better and offer better long term assistance as well as offering either more damage or more control.
The problem of power creep unfortunately combines exponentially with system mastery. Its not that crane wing is overpowered its that it was overpowered in the scenario because the DM had never seen it used by someone with that degree of system mastery. Its an issue I've run into a lot in my game. We have 6 player 2 with what I call a normal degree of system mastery 1 who barely knows what die to pick up 1 who wants to role play a concept, but isnt very good at creating characters and wont take advice and finally 2 people with superior system mastery.
The issue becomes if the characters are created without GM and cross party talk then the 2 with great mastery show up with optimized characters 2 show up with decent characters 1 is either decent or optimized depending on who helps him make a character and 1 unoptimized.
I feel the same way about firearms, retraining, and the down time rules. I love the concept. I hate how they implemented it.
I agree that's why I dislike high level builds. After 10th Max its about your ability to buy the correct magic items in a vacuum without worrying about actual campaign problems availability or needing time for your party to craft. Especially for magic items that literally exist just for corner case builds(agile amulets who gets that as treasure without gm fiat). The thread with lormyr as well as an old.fight between ashiel and citerose taught me that.