primemover003's page

MrTheThird, when you build magic items you have to put your GM cap on rather than your Players cap... The effect you are looking at is quite powerful as it could knock several creature not only prone but deny them any actions for several rounds.

Now looking through Ultimate Equipment an item that would probably be similar to what you want, that is a magic instrument with a area effect are the drums of panic at 30,000 gp.

If we use the spell weighting of the Copper dragon's ability:
(6th level)*(CL 11th)*(2,000gp use activated)= 132,000 gp

132,000 gp / 5 (1 charge per day)= 26,400 gp

26,400 * 2 (slotless item) = about $52,000 gp.

I'd say hideous laughter is a wee bit more effective than fear so the 20,000gphike is appropriate don't you think?

--School of Vrock

Whoa there... that might be how the chart prices it out but that's WAY too cheap for the effect you're looking for! 3,600 gp for an area effect hideous laughter? As a GM I would say no to this item immediately.

Wondrous items are more of an art to design than a science. For example the ability you're looking for is possessed by the CR 17 Ancient Copper Dragon and is considered a 6th level spell effect. So basing it off the 1st level Bard spell doesn't really balance its power level. You need to see if there is similar effect in the game already and use that as a benchmark. Then you have to play with it until it feels just right.

Check out the RPG Superstar boards to see many good threads about making Wondrous Items. You'll learn quite a bit. You might even want to try your hand at it come the end of December!

--Vrock Superstar

primemover003 wrote:

I think I had just started really spending time over on the boards, especially once the death of Dungeon and Dragon magazine were announced. I had a lot of nerdrage about that and even moreso after the 4e announcement... in retrospect I fully believe that excessive nerdrage caused my appendix to rupture in July, lol!

"Had" a lot of nerdrage about that? Vrock You! What is this past tense grammar you are employing here? :)

I spored, stunning screeched, cast mirror image, and heroism while using Power Attack and Cleave WHILE doing the dance of ruin... and I rolled a Nat 1!

If I do that again I may have an anuerysm and since that's already hereditary in my family I'm trying to keep all zen-like. As much as an 8 foot vulture battle demon emulating dude from the Murder Mitten can!

--Toxic Vrock Syndrome

Wow 2007 was really a banner year and a bummer too. I think I had just started really spending time over on the boards, especially once the death of Dungeon and Dragon magazine were announced. I had a lot of nerdrage about that and even moreso after the 4e announcement... in retrospect I fully believe that excessive nerdrage caused my appendix to rupture in July, lol!

But 44 issues! I got 3 out of the deal... I was just about to re-up my ususal 3 year deal too (not realizing that option had ended)! But once I read through Burnt Offerings, the Skinsaw Murders, and Hook Mountain Massacre it was an easy step when the Pathfinder RPG was announced. Got my group to switch without any thought of 4e. Been rolling d20's at the Downriver Pathfinder Lodge ever since!

--Detroit Vrock City!

I can't believe it's already that time again! Last year my wondrous item had been banging in my head for nearly 4 years before I got up the courage to throw it into the ring. Gotta few doozies up my sleeve this year to see if I can repeat!

Just remember...

• follow the template
  
• concept, concept, concept
  
• Read the Wondrous Item Auto Reject thread by SKR!
  
• watch that passive voice
  
• use wordcount wisely (good balance of flavor vs mechanics)
  

--So you wanna be a Vrock Superstar

I've read through the PDF (swag from this year's Superstar contest), and I can confirm: this book is awesome. Bravo, Paizo. Bravo.

Same here and I can tell you that you'll love it. Full of color, great ideas for hooks, monsters, magic, etc. Even at 4 pages per country/region I kept wanting MORE!!!

--Vrock you like a Hurricane

That bites, but didn't your union basically fail you? When push came to shove what did they do for you?

BTW, in your hall did the union provide your pension and other benefits as part of your dues so your benefits would be portable?

What could they do for me? At that point your only recourse is the NLRB which ruled in our favor but couldn't change the decision of the Company. We were only about 400 members in total so it's not like we could really shake the foundations of the company if we went on strike, though it was discussed.

No we do not have pension or other benefits through our union. We were odd in that we were Salaried employees of the Company that were unionized. The Company provided retirement benefits, 401K, etc as any other supervisor below Senior management.

Now see as a member of a small union I can tell you that Management isn't as beneficent as you let on HD.

I will use a sanitized version of my own story. I used to be a salaried employee of a Big 3 automaker in the security, safety, and fire protection division. Said automaker decided before the bottom fell out of the economy to completely sever the entire division. At the end of our final contract the Company outsourced us wholesale to a Contractor without even sitting down to talk to us. They told us that either we apply to work for the new Contractor or we "quit."

Now I'm sorry but that's a metric ton of unicorn sprinkles. When you give an entire division of workers who have a contract with you the boot you have to at least sit down to discuss the matter, then offer some manner of severence. They merely coerced us into folding into the new Contractor so they didn't lose the knowledge base of the employees that were still required to do the job.

Granted we took them to court and won a pitiable settlement from them, but it was insulting. I can safely say that 90% of my union enjoyed working for said Big 3 Company and would have gladly given concessions on our contract in order to remain with the company. But we weren't given that chance. To top it all off our accumulated 401ks and financial accounts were frozen in 2005. We couldn't touch them, manage them, or roll them over into IRA's through the market crash. Some of us lost tens of thousands of dollars with no way to to stem the bleeding unless we decided to retire which was unfeasible for the majority. In all we basically do the same job now for far less in benefits (in terms of quality) and in a far more hostile environment.

You see the new Contractor that came in has a record of dealing very poorly with unions across the country. Their CEO in fact has called us terrorists! In the last 5 years we've won at least 3 major labor suits against them because they're basically lying, cheating bastards. Of course the Big 3 Company is micromanaging them to death, dictating how they are to do their jobs so I can understand why they feel pressure. However they consistently cut our headcount & expect us to do the same functions we did before! I don't know if you are familiar with security and fire protection, but we're kind of a fixed cost that you have to have. I know they eventually want us to take pay cuts but they have posted $500+ million in profits over each of the last 5 years!. They are so audacious about their success that at Christmas they post their yearly earnings in the newsletter that comes with our paychecks. Don't tinkle on my head and tell me its raining.

Unions are still vital because companies show no loyalty to their workers, only their shareholders. I don't pretend to be a vital link in the running of a major industry but I do expect to be treated fairly and with a bit of respect by my employer if I do the same towards them.

I live in suburban Detroit and while I definitely don't completely disagree with HoustonDerek I can say it's not squarely the union's fault. Did they ask for fantastic wages, sure they did! But the company has to agree to those terms. Now the Big 3 of the 70's and 80's didn't exactly make the best product in the world and they paid for that in the PR department, so much so that it's only now that people are finding US made cars as reliable and high quality as foreign automakers.

Corrupt politicians, you bet your sweet behind Detroit has them in abundance... but those days are dying. Many of those hustlers are in jail or being indicted by the feds. Things look up for Detroit, you just have to dig through the industrial brownfields to find the diamonds in the rough that are emerging.

But Ultra-conservative mindsets aren't the ones fighting for air up here. Small progressive, not liberal mind you, progressive thinkers and doers are rebuilding what may again be a Paris of the Midwest. It's gonna take time and vision, but Americans are nothing if not creative, innovative, and stubborn.

I generally disagree with pure captialists because capitalism gives no thought to the people. It's harsh and unforgiving, like nature. Hell the europeans think we're crazy the way we treat our own people. But as Humans we're supposedly smarter than the rest of the beasts and should be able to do better by each other. America and the whole world is really just caught up in the middle of the next wave of thinking. From Agrarian culture, to Industrial, now we're on the verge of something as completely different as working in a field is from working on an assembly line. We just can't see it clearly enough over the horizon to know whats coming.

Well if it's not a creature it's generally an object. If the Wall is tangible it's an object even if it is a spell effect. A Wall of Stone is an Object, a Wall of Thorns is an object, as is a Wall of Iron.

--Vrocket Science!

I agree the new Tumble isn't the insta success that it used to be... I like how higher level PC's still have a challenge to face in the skill department.

--Vrock'em Sock'em Robots!

It sounds good. Now who is going to come up with the money to pay for it? Yes it's health care for all. All your doing if you have insurence now you keap it if you dont you get it for free. That means if your paying now you will pay more becous you have to cover every one in the country. Not saying it to be mean just telling it like it is.

!!!!NHS is not free health care you have to pay for it in taxes!!!!

Thank you capt. obvious. It's far easier for a few hundred million people to pay a small amount to cover everyone than ONE person paying a freaking unbelievable amount to cover themselves.

Even people with health insurnace in the US probably don't have enough in case of a serious illness or condition like cancer or heart attack that keeps them from working, especially with the level of unemployment we have (which is 15% in Michigan BTW). Now I have free health insurance through my company but it is the worst insurance in the world. I would much rather get something for the taxes I pay. I had appendicitis 2 years ago and after the surgery to remove it (unburst mind you) I developed a nasty infection that kept me in the hospital for another week. So that was 2 weeks off work (with no sick days paid or otherwise) with substandard insurance. I am so far in debt because of that I'll likely have to file bankruptcy. It's not fun shouldering the load by yourself.

The US has to put it's collective foot on the throat of the Health Care industry and tell it we're sick of being sick. I would love to have the system the UK does. But the wealthy and powerful conglomerates (and their stockholders) won't let it happen without a fight.

Hide in Plain Sight is one of those abilities that is more or less powerful depending on how much the DM enforces the Stealth rules.

By the rules, for example, a Rogue can only stealth so long as they remain in cover or concealment. Often I've seen a DM go lax on this, to the point where they let the Rogue hop around a corner or get into the shadows to turn 'on' their Stealth, then just keep it on until they attack, even if they're in the middle of a field in broad daylight.

In that case, HiPS isn't very useful. If you actually enforce the normal Stealth rules though, then it is an amazing skill, easily worth the dip for most aspiring rogues.

Another annoying gray area is what happens when a character does manage to Stealth after the suprise round? What are the combat modifiers? Does the defender lose their Dex to AC? Is the Stealthed character considered Invisible for purposes of attack mods?

--Vrock n'Roll Hoochie-Coo

I was under the impression that racial bonus's stack. Otherwise, you have the wierd situations of two characters built with exactly the same base stats, one human, one gnome. The gnome has a strength 2 less than the human. Then apply the Half-Dragon template, and you end up with a small half-dragon and a medium half-dragon (one half human, the other half-gnome) with exactly the same str stat (since if they don't stack, the half-gnome/half-dragon's gnomish racial penalty would be replaced by the half-dragon's boost).

Um, a penalty is not a bonus. So you'd still have the half-dragon gnome having a Str 2 less than the human half dragon.

Bonus is positive, Penalty is negative. They are not the same.

It's no different than if you cast Bull's Str on both the normal human and gnome...

--King of Vrock
Dang Gninja'd...

Yeah the archetypical Diabolic tiefer is boring... I always loved the crazy variation of all thetielfing that filled the Old PS books... this lovely was always one of my favorites Spikey, followed closely by Kylie the Tout.

Tony Diterlizzi would be awesome... so would Brom. I think R.K. Post would do some good work for Golarion (didn't I spot him AT paizocon though?).

--King of Vrock

Hey All,

Are there rules that say you can use your move action to do an additional swift/immediate action?

Thanks

No. You are limited to a single swift/immediate action per round.

KaeYoss wrote:

Shisumo wrote:

The fact that you could claim bardic knowledge was effectively Knowledge (everything) demostrates how badly the 3.5 system needed changing.

The old was Knowledge (something). Or (anything). Or (everything). Or (whatever). The mechanic didn't make sense and needed to be shot. The new bardic knowledge represents bardic knowledge a lot better.

agree.

The old bardic knowledge wasn't that vague... Local notable people, legendary items, or noteworthy places.

Granted being a seperate mechanic I did always have to look it up... the new one if far easier.

--Vrock'em Sock'em Robots!

I'd guess that only death, ending the rage voluntarily, and running out of rounds of rage will be the only things to end a rage.

--King of Vrock!

I for one am glad that you can't use inspire courage every round of every combat now. Resource Managment seems to be dirty word to modern players. It's something that used to be an integral part of the game. OMG my wizard has to bust out a crossbow to save spells for later... MADNESS I say!

Jason, so far I loved everything you guys are doing. Your experience is similar to mine as a DM of 16 years. Combats last about 3-5 rounds on average with boss fights going 5-10. The 15 minute adventuring day only exists if the adventure allows the PC's to control the pace... and we all know that real life doesn't stop because we're tired so why should the game world?

Now the Bard being one of my favorite classes looks great. I love how it gets easier to use bardic performance AND you can cast spells while you're doing it! Better HD thank you! Now I can wade in rapier a blazing without being so fragile. More spells is lovely! What other caster can say they got MORE spells?!?!

Oh BTW for the Confusion spells and condition... did you get rid of that annoying attack whoever last attacked you clause??? Because that's really all that happened with confusion before. And as a DM having multiple saves is nice for both sides. It's especially nice for those "Dramatic DM's" who fudge rolls... now you can blow your first save and give the PC's some satisfaction before shaking it off later to continue the combat.

--King of Vrock!

I don't know, just from the wording it sounds like a smite lasts for the encounter or until the target is defeated/vanquished. Obviously this is a big power boost but then again DM's will have to adjust accordingly.

--Vrock-a-bye baby...

So penalties from the same source don't stack, but do penalties from different sources stack?

Two example scenarios:

1) Two casters both fire Rays of Enfeeblement at the same target. Since they are two different casters, is this a different source?

I think the same named spell applying the penalty would be considered the same source, not different, but I'm not sure I have a rules precedent to back it up.

2) Same caster on successive rounds casts a Ray of Enfeeblement and a Ray of Exhaustion. The exhausted condition applies a -6 penalty to Strength (amongst other things), so since these are both penalties, do they stack?

Here I'm pretty sure the answer is yes. A different spell would apply separately. Since the penalties in both cases are unnamed (as almost all penalties are), then they should stack.

What do you think?

Mostly I'm interested in opinions based in the rules or other written precedents. I know I can house rule it either way I want :)

Any 2 Rays of Enfeeblement from any caster are still the same source (i.e. the named spell).

Ray of Enfeeblement and Waves of Exhaustion however would stack together.

Well shoot... we've been playing Pearls of Power wrong too! Gonna have to pour over thr PFRPG with a fine toothed comb when it comes out!

--Vrockhead

I guess a designer would have to clarify that then or there should be a diagram in the book...

Actually the PHB and DMG were always in conflict. According to the rule for primary sources the DMG takes precedence as it has the rules for drowing and suffocating. So as the SRD states it's con x2.

I however found that to be too trivial for dramatic underwater fights where water breathing or similar magics weren't prepared. Like a Trapped room filled with skeletons that is flooding. Even Joe Commoner with 10 Con can fight for a whole minute without checking for drowning. Most encounters average 3 to 5 rounds tops. Con x 2 just kills that suspense. So I use Con rounds -1 per full round/standard action taken.

--Vrock Lobster!

Basically in the following which squares are hit by the aura if X is the person casting it.

A B C D E
F G H I J
K L X M N
O P Q R S
T U V W X
Y Z 0 1 2
3 4 5 6 7

Can I simultaneously get K and N in my aura?
Can I get A and E in my aura?
If there's a large ally in locations (U V Z 0) are they in my aura even though part of them isn't within 10 feet?

Also references to FAQ or RAW would be very helpful. Honestly I'd really like some pictures and diagrams for this kind of stuff?

You generally pick an intersection with all spells, spell-like effects, and supernatural abilities. So if X chose the intersection to her front right you would include: C,D,H,I,M,N,J,G,L,Q,R, & herself.

Yes if only part of a Large ally is within the aura they receive the benefit, just as if only one square of a large creature got caught in a fireball.

--King of Vrock

Well let's not forget about True Ghouls (thank you Wolfgang Baur)... they're civilized undead and if I'm not mistaken the Darklands region of Sekamina has Ghouls as an abundant "race."

My Guess is some ghouls in Golarion are just as necropolitan as the True Ghouls of Greyhawk.

--Vrocket Launcher Tag!

Since we are diving into the details of the rules:

I think a pearl of power allows you to re-memorize I spell (as a standard action I think) then you must still take another action to cast it.

"Once per day on command, a pearl of power enables the possessor
to recall any one spell that she had prepared and then cast."

Nope a pearl of power will let you recast a spell you've already cast of a certain level. Using the pearl to cast the spell over is a standard action.

I have a PoP 3rd level and I have fireball and lightning bolt memorized today. During my adventure I cast my fireball on some kobolds frying them good. Ok cool I still have a lightning bolt to play with! But a few hours later we run into a troll and no has any Alchemists fire (oh no!). So I can use my PoP to re-cast my Fireball, not rememorize.

This is also why the Dust only lasts a random number of rounds...

--Mmm, what's up Vrock?

Wow there is a ton of whining aout this! I'm with SKR the Cleric needed a beatstick to bring it back in line with the other classes. The new Concentration check is superb. If you want to cast a spell stay out of melee or use the 5 foot step (I don't care if you think it's unrealistic, it's a purely game mechanic). If you want to be a melee caster take Combat Casting. Too few Feats? Everyone's getting more feats!

Jason you've done a fantastic job so far and I can't wait for more.

--King of Vrock!

Or does this adventure path only appeal to me to on a basic pun level?

Hey now that's my schtick!!!

--King of Vrock!!!

Small size ID could be the adults who have to have a giant sized creature to crawl up inside of to infest. But the smaller ones coudl be youths that have fun snacking on humans and halflings for the really young. Maybe we need a template for infected people?

When they inhabit a body they kill the host, so no template is really necessary.

I love that the ID is the new MF... I love the description of their city in the Darklands.

You think the best part of tuesday is that it's Paizo chat night!

--King of Vrock!

In the clear to Text B, Krome might even go to the trouble of writing in the code. The symbols around the text's edges might be paired up. When the pairs are connected with straight lines, the segments might intersect atop letters in Text B that spell out the password.

I was thinking instead of strange symbols around the edges of the page the code is in the text. For example, the inaccuracy of Text B is a reference to the 4th high priest of Nethys Amun the lesser, when any student of history (or nobility) knows that Ptah XXV was high priest at the time. The mistake hints at a substitution cipher whereas letter 4 of the osiriani or azlanti language is replaced by the 25th (using maybe decipher script to break the code). Then re-writing the inaccurate passage reveals the password to reveal the secret page.

As for how the magic works, secret page doesn't necessarily make the writing magical, however the scroll would detect faintly, but Text B (as a historic text) is neither an arcane or divine spell.

So pick up scroll in unknown language/dialect. Comprehend Languages is used. Text is historical document (know check or checks) but is clearly inaccurate. Detect Magic reveals faint aura of ? (Spellcraft check). If PC's and Patron don't have Decipher Script or the secondary Knowledge check they know of a Sage that does.

Does that mean that, when a wand contains a touch spell, the recipient of the spell must be touched with the wand?

That's generally the idea...

--Vrocking Grasp!

Well Krome here's where Knowledge skills can come into play. As Text B is historical drop something in there that is not accurate. A DC 15 Know (History) is enough to spot a basic inaccuracy. If the PC's don't have Know (history) the Patron should! He can mention that something is wrong.

Also as True Seeing is far too high for them maybe the inaccuracy is a secret code inside Text B that reveals the password. Use another Knowledge skill to unlock it, say a Know (Geography or Nobility) and this will force them to take it to a Sage.

--ElectroVrock Therapy!

My player's named themselves the SWORD, Sacred Warriors of Righteous Destruction. Pretty apt name for a group of dedicated demonslayers!

As the chamberlain and warden of Divided's Ire I allowed Kulublax and Orgrosh the ability to teleport anywhere in the prison (as well as some kastighurs). No reason not to have the nominal heads of the prison to be able to teleport...

--Vrocket man!

Shifty look at the Rules for Affiliations in the PHB 2. It's got pretty much exactly what you want. It's a faily simple mechanic that allows you to start an organization and assign both duties and benefits to it's members.

Paizo used the system in the Savage Tide AP and I think that their Pathfinder Society Factions are based off similar rules.

--Vrock, Paper, Scissor...

It's already a 1st level only human regional feat. It's called Jotunbrud in Races of Faerun. The only difference is you don't get to wield the larger weapon size. My guess is Jotunbrud was the beta for the powerful build ability.

--Vrock'em Sock'em Robots!

Egads! Trying to remember my first character is tough... I've been DMing so long. I mean I can count the number of PC's I can remember on 2 hands!

My Iconic Character has always been a Gandalf-like behind the scenes meddler. However as I primarily DM they've always been just that... NPC's.

So I believe the oldest D&D character I can remember was the Blue Herald, a human wizard based loosely off Schmendrick (the Last Unicorn), Ergo the Magnificent (Krull), and Presto (the D&D cartoon)! I remember a colored pencil sketch of him that's a dead ringer for Weird Al Yankovic!

--Vrock of Ages

Labyrinth is a really high fanasty world, but only a very few people wielded magic. I would almost recommend using E6 D&D...

Actually there was an EXTREMELY good thread covering this on the wizards boards many, many years ago! Too bad wizards doesn't keep an archive that old because it had a LOT of great suggestions...

Oh and it's the Bog of Eternal Stench!

--King of Vrock

jreyst if they earthglide through the place keep in mind anything they pass on the way in they may have to fight to get back out. Perhaps when they finally pass into the demiplane it triggers an alarm or contingient word of recall on the warrior order of the priestesses and waiting for your PC's is a strike force ready to smite the infidels!!!

--Detroit Vrock City

I think in light of the sisterhood having another fortress nearby you might want them to learn of the PC's poking around in their old digs. Nothing like some manner of magical alarm, maybe a permanent status spell on a bound demon? Then you could use Quandry's idea of a strike team investigating the violation of their former temple.

--Vrock n' Roll!

As you planned the dungeon requiring keys to breach the inner most sanctum of the temple who's to say that the sanctum is on the same plane as the rest of the dungeon? There's nothing to stop you from placing it in a demiplane or the Plane of Shadow that can only be accessed by the keys you've spread throughout the dungeon.

Let the earth elemental idea work... at least for the first few encounters they face. Once the defenders in the temple know what tactic they are using let them come up with a way to defend against it. I mean they built an entire complex underground which means they are sure to have scrolls of Move Earth on hand for repairing cave-ins or collapses.

Also remember Earth Elementals suffer a -4 attack and damage penalty vs. airborn or waterborn opponents. Take to the air or flood a room.

--Between a Vrock and hardplace!

EDIT... It sounds like your Dungeon is a Static location. Abandoned for hundreds of years with trapped constructs, Undead, bound outsiders, and magical and mechanical traps? You really should have ACTIVE inhabitants sprinkled in.

Todd I just ordered TGB today and am eagerly awaiting it! As a fellow fan and graybearded blood what kind of coverage do you have on the Plane of Shadow? I'm in the midst of setting up a campaign set in Balefire (Dragon #322) and wonder how I can connect the City of Lanterns to Golarion. Is it as much a transitive as it was in 3e or is it more of a bit player like it was in the older editions? I've heard mention of Shadow Absalom but am keen to find out more... I do have something like 5 to 7 business days to wait!

--Detroit Vrock City!

Dragons collect and move loot just like humanoids do... in containers. Whereas an adventurer uses sacks and chests, a dragon uses things like ships sails, cargo nets, and whole wagons to haul off trade goods.

Or another option supported by classic lit... their belly scales can be opened up and individual coins and gems can be lodged in between them. Think of a porcupine moving their quills or a cats hair standing up. A dragon opens his scales and just rolls in a pile of coin scooping them up by the belly full.

--Vrock, stock, and barrel!

Or anywhere Kenku would fit in Wereravens should work...

--Vrocknrolla!

The Arcane user casts Mage Armour on him each day and he uses Pots of Shield.

Stuart Potions of Shield don't exist. Personal Range Spells can't be made into them.

--Vrock and a hard place

This is Kick ass! I won't be in town for Paizocon, but I will be in town in mid July! The fiancee and her sister "twisted my arm" to come with them for their Twilight vacation... Lemme think, visit Paizo, see some kick ass trees, take a dip in the Pacific for the first time. Done and Done.

And Now I have a residents guide to where to go and see and most especially eat and drink!!!

-I Vrock the party that Vrocks the body...