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Whether you think she is a Mary Sue or not, I think we can all agree that this is a good thing though ridiculous it took social pressure to make it happen.
Abrhams had almost nothing to do with Lost after the first few episodes. Blame Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse for that mess.
He was an executive producer. If he wasn't doing oversight, then he wasn't doing his job and if he was doing oversight than he deserves at least some of the blame for the mess it became.
While JJ does a good job, still the farther you can keep him from the long term story the better. Look at Lost that he was involved with. Lots of mysteries and riddles were introduced only to be abandoned and left unanswered as other mysteries and riddles are introduced. At the end it all comes down to a cork. We don't need any of that mess involved.
The best way, for me, to think about Rey being more powerful than Luke is to view this from a gaming perspective. Basically Luke is a jedi from an earlier less powered edition. Then the splat books came out and all these options, etc. So the game was restarted and Rey is a Jedi from the new edition, which has been powered up so that its basic Jedi is as powerful as the earlier edition's core jedi + splat books.
In the culture that Star Wars is set, droids are basically pets/slaves. I seriously doubt most people pay much attention to them. "An R2 droid with blue dome? I may have seen hundreds of those, can't say any of them stood out particularly. None that I noticed anyway."
Consider R2 and C-3PO basically walking out when the stormtroopers arrive. The stormtroopers didn't really pay much attention to them because they weren't worth worrying about.
Can I just say how f-ed up it would be if Luke purposefully left a small child, even a force gifted one, alone on a planet by herself. Luke, more than any Jedi before him, should know the value of being raised by a family. Dumping a kid off would be something I could see Obi-Wan or Yoda. Luke? Geez I hope not.
I got the feeling, it wasn't the first time Luke had tried to lift something. It might have been the first time he had been successful. Of course there was no on screen evidence either way.
I wouldn't say Rey was completely uninjured. She had just been tossed into a tree, knocked unconscious and fallen from a height.
Black Dougal wrote:
Well Phasma evidently survived and that was after being tossed into a trash compactor on said planet, so who knows.
But I seriously doubt they are going to pay Harrison Ford 50 times anybody else again, so Han isn't going to come back.
I would like to see Ren NOT get redeemed. Instead has Rey at his mercy and is about to land a killing blow when a big old hairy claw grabs him by the neck and ...
I also noticed that Ren is very clearly only playing with Finn. He doesn't take him seriously at all. Same with Rey at 1st. She spends most of the 1st part of the fight running.
With Finn, up to the point when Finn got a hit in on him. And then Kylo was like, "Oh no you didn't!" and then put the beat down on him.
There is a fan theory that Yoda was actually killed by Vader at some point prior to Luke arriving. And that Yoda is actually a more strongly manifested projection during Luke's visits. The scene where Luke fights the vision of Vader was actually an echo of Vader killing Yoda. Once Luke's training was completed and he was ready to actually face both Vader and the Emperor, was Yoda able/willing to fully merge with the Force.
While it might have been the first day that Luke used a blaster, it was not the first day he would have used a ranged weapon. Luke had a 6-2Aug2 hunting rifle with him when the Tusken Raiders attacked him.
That is why it is generally better to address the specific argument than to attempt to challenge the particular person making it.
baron arem heshvaun wrote:
I was telling the news reporters at the premier that I would have love to see Phasma take down an X Wing from the ground with some heavy blaster riffle, not a rocket launcher or surface to air missile, but a heavy version of Stromtrooper blaster, that would show how bada$$ she was.
Dude that would be awesome. I can see somebody in an X-Wing flying in firing at her in an airspeeder. She stops reaches in the back and pulls out an old T-21 heavy blaster, aims calmly as the X-Wing fires at her, and disables it.
Finn is the stand in for the audience, especially the members of the audience that may not have the rest of the background coming in. That is why it is okay for him to be a bit bumbling through most of the film. That is how the character arc works for that kind of character. The only real issue I have with how it was done in the movie was he seemed to have way to much history information for a brain-washed grunt soldier.
"Han Solo, the rebellion general?" "Wasn't he a rebellion leader?" "You knew Luke Skywalker of the Resistance. You can help us."
There is absolutely no reason why a soldier in his position would ever know that information in the First Order. Outside of a general order to find Luke, I seriously doubt in the old empire most run of the mill officers and soldiers cared about him at all. One ace pilot is not what wins wars and other than making that one in the million shot, he actually didn't appear to have that much influence on what was happening with the Rebellion.
Grey Lensman wrote:
Remember Mace was electrocuted with force lightning, THEN tossed out the window.
Well he was shocked, I don't know for certain he was electrocuted. Luke got hit by force lightning several times and lived. Anakin also got hit by Dooku's force lightning and got back up and started fighting after a moment or two. And Yoda was zap as well.
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Windu lost lost most of both arms, and he probably took his defeat badly enough that he couldn't save himself after being tossed out. (He was severely owned by Darth Sidius, and probably lost his Force focus in that moment.
Just watched the scene again and you can clearly see his left hand still attached after Anakin cuts off his right arm. And I would say he still has most of his right, definitely at least some below the elbow.
Well Mace was tossed out of a window. It isn't like that would have to kill a Jedi, even given just losing a hand. I mean, Anakin was jumping from air-car to air-car one movie earlier. It is believable that he went into hiding in the underworld of Coruscant. What if he became a totally type Jolee Bindo character. I could see Mace as being a "grey" Jedi.
I disagree. (Re)Watch the original trilogy. Now tell me everything you know about Luke and Leia's mother. About Vader's relationship to her. Oh, we only know that Leia remembers that she was sad and that is it. Nobody gave a crap about the mom until the prequels came out and then everybody wished they could forget about her (and the movies).
Also what Kylo was saying could easily be interpreted as him wanting to commit suicide. "I'm being torn apart. I want to be free of this pain. I know what I have to do but I don't know if I have the strength to do it."
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
This is the same man who seems to have thought that the planet Vulcan was within visual range of Delta Vega.
Evidently if you suggest ...
Rey is a Mary Sue then you are sexist, because you didn't suggest Luke and Han were in the originals. It doesn't matter if she is better half-way through the first movie than both of them put together by the end of two movies. You are sexist for even questioning her description.
I mean, Luke is able to pilot a ship he has never flown before and make an impossible shot despite no evidence that he has ever piloted anything before. Well except Obi-Wan saying something about how he has heard that Luke has become a good pilot himself. And Luke telling Han he isn't such a bad pilot himself. Or Biggs telling Red Leader that Luke is the best bush pilot in the outer rim. Or Luke telling Wedge that he had hit moving creatures about the same size. But you know, nowhere it is established that Luke can actually pilot anything.
Did you forget how Luke picked up his light saber using the force before flying his x-wing. Come on, how you could you not complain about that being included. Or when the general didn't want him to fly and he waved his hand and said, "You want me to fly." And the general let him. Where did he learn that trick? And when he repaired R2-D2 after he got shot, where did he pick up those skills? See you are a horrible person for not complaining about the Gary Stu that was Luke in the first movie.
When Tarkin said, "Dantooine is too remote to make an effective demonstration ..."
JJ Abrams seems to have interpreted that to mean that you could see Alderaan from all the other systems visually.
I felt the tension of the danger posed by the First Order dropped substantially after the Falcon and Han showed up and the First Order decided it was time to start blowing up planets. It is bit of an irony that the more dangerous they became, the less intimidating they come across. It is a bit like Snoke's hologram. The larger it is the less powerful he seems, as if he needs to overcompensate.
Some random thoughts ...
Some people have suggested that Obi-Wan and Padme might have been messing around behind Anakin's back. Now consider that Luke and Leia are fraternal twins. It is possible, however unlikely, that they may have different fathers. It could be that Luke is actually Obi-Wan's son and Rey is Luke's daughter and Obi-Wan's granddaughter.
Or it is possible that Obi-Wan fathered a child while in hiding. The order no longer existed so his oath to it would be null and void. Still he knew that attachments were dangerous. Sounds like a philosophy for "hit-it-and-quit-it" with a female smuggler making a stop over on Tatooine. It could be that Rey is Obi-Wan's grandchild descended from this illicit affair.
You'll notice Rey has a English accent like Obi-Wan, but not like anyone else outside of the Empire/First Order. Obi-Wan's voice is also heard during the vision.
Also, isn't it strange that Finn does not have an English accent despite growing up in the Order? Also, why does Finn know so much about the Resistances/Rebelling leadership? Would the First Order really teach their storm-troopers about Luke and Han? I doubt it.
Anybody else get a Arthur and Merlin vibe from the very ending. I mean Rey was proven by drawing/calling the sword.
Also don't compare Kylo in this movie to Vader in a New Hope. Vader was about 20 years older and of course more mature and controlled. Still that didn't stop him from killing officers at least one officer that hadn't really done anything wrong when they lost sight of the Falcon (because it was clamped onto their ship).
The writers have said that these movies will show not only the evolution of the hero(es) but also of the villains. So don't look at Kylo as an end result, but as a starting point for a villain.
Thoughts after a 2nd viewing.
Seriously, JJ Abrams has no idea about stellar distances and it is insultingly stupid. This time I caught that not only could you seem the big blasty beam from cantina planet, but you could actually see the planets exploding as well. WTF? I mean, even if cantina planet was in the same system, and there is no indication it is and if it is get ready for it to become like Ceti Alpha 5, it would still not be possible to see them being destroyed with the naked eye during the day. And why wouldn't you destroy cantina planet if it was in the same system. I mean, this is so dumb, "People won't believe it happened unless we show them everyone seeing it happening." That is like in Star Trek Nemesis where they had to make Picard's clone bald because they thought there was no way people would believe that Picard ever had hair as a young man.
How much better would it have been if instead of having R2 wake up for no reason at the exact right time with the rest of the map, that instead Rey actually stole it from the files while she was trying to escape. Kylo told her they had the rest of the map, it would have made sense for her to try to get it.
What if instead of mind controlling a guard to free her. She sees a bit of metal that looks to be just at her finger tips (but it is actually just out of reach as the audience can see). She actually moves it closer subconsciously while trying to reach it and then uses it to free herself.
In her flashback, the junk dealer is holding her arm (you can see his big sausage fingers) and telling her to be quiet. It would make sense that she knew a lot about the Falcon if she actually was his slave/servant when she was younger and she was forced to help do a lot of the changes to the Falcon. It might also explain how she knew how to pilot a ship, which nothing in the movie indicated why she would. Driving a tractor/swoop isn't going to prepare to a person to fly a ship.
Comparison to Luke: Luke did 3 things force related in the first movie. (1) Blocked beams from trainer, (2) received Obi-Wan's messages from the other side, and (3) hit the shot. Now, as Luke mentioned, he had experience hitting similar sized (and probably moving) targets in his youth in a similar setting (beggar's canyon vs. trench) so it was at least partially due to skills he had developed and due to the force. Also, in the added on film, we see that Biggs vouches for Luke to Red Leader, "He's the best bush pilot in the outer rim." And according to some Star Wars materials, the controls for the T-16 Skyhopper are almost identical to the controls for an X-Wing. Another issue was that I think there were more fighters than pilots on Yavin at that moment, so that is why he got a ship. Basically they were trying to put anyone with piloting experience into the air to give them their best chance (I mean Porkins doesn't exactly inspire a lot of thought that these were all elite pilots). You'll notice though that Luke's group was the last one to take a shot, probably because they were the least experienced.
Leia wasn't as badly acted as I first thought. Or maybe I just set a lower bar after the first viewing. Also Leia isn't a great general. All the people that talk during the planning of the attack are men, which is disappointing, Leia doesn't make any command decisions during this process. I am not suggesting she needs to come up with the ideas, but she needs to be the one that puts it together as a plan. Also, there is no back up plans made apparently. Nobody makes an effort to evacuate the base of non-essential personnel. Shouldn't at least half the command structure have ditched out in order to possibly regroup later. The original movie had the same problem on Yavin, the battle of Hoth seemed to be one of the few times this made sense.
My current order is (basically machete order with a prologue):
Though I have been debating with:
Yes the shiny one is a woman ...
and she didn't do crap and she wasn't a big baddie. She was basically a grunt. It is great, that she will probably have a bigger part in future releases, but considering they pretty much put her in originally because people were complain about the number of female characters, it isn't too impressive. Basically, step up your game story writers, making the entire command structure (other than holographic alien, who is played by a white male) of the baddies white men is lazy story telling in the extreme. Sticking in a white female cameo doesn't remove that. Also going from white male to white female isn't a great leap in terms of diversity. Moving in the right direction, yes.
"What's a Nubian?"
Weapon going through hyperspace means that people on other systems wouldn't be able to see it. i.e. Even if that was the case, then it still was dumb as heck. I get it, "plot more important than technical details", but it just seems so ridiculous it ruins that entire part of the movie for me. I am not asking for things to be as "realistic" as possible, but just not to be dumb to the extreme. Besides the point of JJ seeming to always think that way you make a more sinister danger is to make it bigger (see USS Vengeance in Into Darkness and now this).
Hm, guess I missed that.
My thoughts based on a single viewing.
Bad: What the hell doesn't JJ Abrams understand about stellar distances? I mean in Star Trek, Spock was close enough from an ice planet to see Vulcan get destroyed, WTF? And then in this, everyone, everywhere, can see the super blastie ray go destroy that system? And a super blastie ray, not traveling in hyperspace, can get to another system in anything short of a few years? WTF? Now I know the comment would be, "The details aren't important, it is about the story" and Star Wars is not Science Fiction, but instead Space Fantasy, but that seems a pretty big detail.
Good: The whole draining the star totally looked like a homage to the Star Forge from KotOR. I think a planet that went to a system and just sucked the star dry, using the energy to build endless supplies, would have been a much more interesting weapon.
Good: Much more diverse heroes. I am sick, as a white male, of people suggesting that I would not like to watch stories about non-white male heroes. That is ridiculous.
Bad: White males are all the big baddies. It is great to embrace diversity for the heroes, but you have to also do it on the other side of the coin. Often times in movies like this, the "coolest" characters are villains (e.g. Boba Fett), let's have some diversity in those characters as well.
Awesome: The blaster bolt scene was cool as frack.
Great: Quite a bit of Finn's lines. I realize he had a lot of comic relief, but I really enjoyed his parts. Also the scene with the two storm troopers that stop and go back the way they were coming when they see Kylo destroying a room.
Musings: I wonder if Finn is going to end up being related to Lando. I think Rey is most likely Luke's daughter. I've seen some folks wonder/complain about how Rey was able to tap into so much Force abilities without any training. I think there are at least 3 possible reasons. (1) She did receive some Force training before she was left behind (with Max Von Sydow I am guessing), (2) when she touch the light saber and had a vision some Force knowledge was given to her subconsciously, and (3) when she was Force locked with Kylo and saw into his mind she picked some Force knowledge up subconsciously as well.
Actually it is worse.
After they get captured and the X-Wings show up, they re-arm. He picks up the lightsaber, but he also picks up a blaster. Then when they see Rey being carried into the ship, he suddenly no longer has the blaster and only the lightsaber, so he can't shoot at the ship and try to stop it.
Whether a blaster would have done any good (given an X-Wing was disabled at the beginning of the movie by one at least makes it possible) is another issue.
Orfamay Quest wrote:
No, it's not difficult to get into the US higher education system, and that's one of the problems. The majority of US universities practice "open admissions," but as soon as you're in, you're immediately tracked into a remedial program that more or less guarantees that you won't actually complete the degree, while accumulating unsustainable amounts of debt.
I am not sure what you mean by using the phrase "tracked into a remedial program".
Students who apply to colleges and universities often have deficiencies in their scholarly abilities (minority students are disproportionally represented in these often due to poor primary and secondary education opportunities, families with little means of supporting their children educationally, etc.). What should school do about these deficiencies?
Let's take mathematics as that is the one I know the most about and is also the most widely needed remediation. Students who don't know that -16 + 3 = -13, let alone a lot of other arithmetic basic knowledge, are ill prepared for being placed in a college algebra course. Colleges could say, "Tough luck, put them in college algebra and let them sink or swim." Some might reasonably criticize this as setting the students with deficiencies up for failure, taking their money (forcing them to collect debt), and gain little real education since they are so far over their head that they have no idea what is happening.
Alternatively, schools could not require a mathematics course for any non-STEM major. Though I would imagine most universities would not look favorably on that and it would quickly turn some degrees into being viewed as not worth much (lower standards are rarely a selling point for employers). Thus some individuals may end up wasting a lot of money going to such a school only to still have to take the courses in order to get a degree from a reputable university.
A third option might be to create alternative mathematics courses that didn't use algebra. Still like the no math alternatively this ultimately is going to do devalue those degrees. Part of the problem with high school diplomas is you have people with 3 years of mathematics that never did anything more complicated than balancing a check book. I am not sure making similar mathematics courses at the college level would be ultimately the best choice.
Or we could put the students in say college algebra, but also force them to take support courses. Again, this is a shell game, you are still driving up the cost for the courses, and this may not be enough help to compensate for the deficiencies within a single semester.
The current system, used by most colleges and universities (though most universities actually kick the students to the community college level) is to try to access where the student's current skills are and then have a series of courses that students take to build themselves up to the level in order to take college algebra. One should consider the fact that anyone graduating from a high school, should have the skills to take and pass college algebra. Lacking those skills may represent not just one year of high school, but possibly something like 8 years of missing mathematics education, to think that amount of learning is going to be corrected in a single semester is ludicrous.
Now, I personally think the current system is the best choice as someone that cares about mathematics and values it for everyone. Ideally, there should be no need for remedial courses, but we don't live in an ideal world. We have students who dropped out, who didn't try to learn math and avoided it all costs. We have students that didn't go to college right out of high school and instead spend perhaps a couple decades working and haven't used what they knew in years. And of course there are those hard working students that have just got a bad roll in life and had horrible teachers/school systems.
But the reason that students that need remediation often aren't successful in finishing their schooling is multifaceted only some of it has to do with anything the school as control over it.
Saw the movie Wednesday. I am one of those that is more of it being a blah movie over all. I didn't hate it, but I am not in love with it either. I will say this about it, it was definitely not a Green Lantern. It was much better than that, but of course that isn't shooting too high.
I actually enjoyed the first half to 2/3 of the movie. I felt it went down hill after ...
They did the whole one year later thing.
Thinking about it, I would have preferred something like ...
The movie is the same up until Reed escapes and Ben agrees to work with the government.
We then have scenes of Ben going into dangerous areas and basically killing terrorist and such, become more and more numb to the death he is spreading. Meanwhile Reed is trying to rebuild the teleporter and is keeping track of Ben's activities, become more and more upset at how his friend is being used. They convince Sue to use her skills to find Reed to help finish the new teleporter to go back. She requests music selection X (probably something classical, but not necessarily European), because it is similar to the pattern that Reed thinks. Johnny is being preped to be the new weapon, against his father's wishes.
They find Reed's hideout and capture his equipment, but not him. Seeing his plans bust, he decides to go help his friend Ben instead. Ben is being sent to take out a rebel group that is trying to overthrow the Latveria government, destabilizing the region. Just as Ben is about to crush a 15 year old rebel, Reed grabs his arm and stops him. Reed tells him, "This is not you. Let me help you." Ben says, "It is too late, I'm a monster now." And breaks down, all of the guilt of the pain and murder he has done in the last year or so coming to the surface. Reed says something like, "You are not a monster, you are my friend. I am sorry I left you, this is all my fault. Please help me fix it." They agree to go and break Johnny and Sue out of the military base. All of this is observed by a figure near by, in a suit with a green cloak.
Flashback, on the planet Doom pulls himself out of the ooze. His suit DOESN'T fuse to him though he is badly scarred. Instead he is gifted with the ability to blast powerful energy from his hands. He basically goes all Kahn and uses his superior intellect to build himself of a containment suit out of his environmental suit, thus controlling his energy blasts. One of the pods was left on the planet, along with some parts following the explosion. Doom uses these to construct a new pod and returns to Earth secretly. He decides he needs to take over world and starts an insurrection in Latveria, "Home is where the heart is." Since Reed stops Ben, Doom is able to take over Latveria and establishes himself as supreme ruler. Most of his abilities are due to his superior intellect and technology, but he is able to produce energy blast, that he uses his suit to focus and control.
Doom sends secret info to the government about how to finish the teleporter and they send some animals as a test run. These animals get gooed and come back and start mutating. Reed and Ben show up to free Johnny and Sue. In the chaos, Franklin is killed by creatures. Ben destroys the teleporter saying it is too dangerous despite it being possibly the only way for him to be cured. The team joins forces and stopped the monsters. The government decides to let the FF go as free agents and stops experimenting on teleporting to world Zero. There is some discussion how Ben thinks he is still a monster and Sue says something like he isn't, he just one of them family. And Johnny makes a crack (pun intended) about how monsters maybe can run around without clothes, but Ben is a person and people need to wear pants.
End credits. Post credits seen, Doom is seen on T.V. giving a speech to the U.N. as the new leader of Latveria. The FF (Ben now with a pair of Kevlar type shorts) look at each other with "Oh crap"/"What the frak" expressions.
Haven't read all the posts, but the defining feature of good vs. evil is the treatment of "innocents". If you harm innocents (intentionally and/or regularly), then you are evil. If you protect innocents (as much as you are able), then you are good. Neutral help those they care about and harm those that they hate, but generally don't step in one way or another to aid or harm random innocents.
So the question you have to ask is, are innocents being harmed by the deliberate actions of the being? If the answer is yes, they are evil. If the answer is no they are being helped, then the answer is they are good. If the answer is innocents are not being dealt with at all, then they are neutral. And remember, the answer to this is not what the being believes the answer is but what the universal forces know the answer to be.