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pluvia33's page

ACG Venture-Lieutenant, New Mexico—Alamogordo. 635 posts. No reviews. No lists. 4 wishlists. 14 Pathfinder Society characters. 2 aliases.


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Mike Selinker wrote:
Anyway, it's our first promo scenario, and I expect we will continue experimenting with the tech around that if we continue making them.

If I may be so bold, I think it'd be cool if there was a promo scenario that came with a cool piece of promo loot or two. That could be a really cool, nice reward for the scenario without messing with the typical number of feats usually awarded during an AP.

Yeah, it makes me very interested to see how the Arcanist's abilities translated to the card game. It's also nice that we can start with the new character right away in the Season of the Righteous instead of having the finish Adventure 1 with another character first.

Well, instead of changing your hand size, you can always use the spell to turn all of your physical skills into d12+2. For most spellcasters that's bound to be a major upgrade all around.

So with the latest scenario, the "During This Scenario" rules are:

"Cut the prophecy handout into a number of pieces equal to the number of Cryptic Runes henchmen.

When you defeat a Cryptic Runes henchman, put that card in a henchman pile next to this scenario and get a piece of the prophecy handout.

When you encounter the villain Brinebones, you may shuffle it and a henchman from the henchman pile into a random open location to evade Brinebones."


So we can collect the pieces of the prophecy handout, but it looks like it has no real baring on actually winning the scenario. Is this correct? Is it just the standard "corner the villain" scenario, or should there be another line saying something like, "To win this scenario, collect all pieces of the prophecy handout"? Something like that would definitely make the scenario more interesting, but as it is it seems like a pretty easy scenario other than having to eventually beat Brinebones. As long you beat one Cryptic Rune first, you can avoid him and know what location he goes into, prepare, close any locations you need to close, then beat him.

Andrew L Klein wrote:
There is a spell in either 5 or 6 that gives you a few hand sizes to choose from for a turn.

Shapeshift is an Adventure 6 spell and the power you choose to use actually lasts for the rest of the scenario. It's a pretty beefy spell.

Hawkmoon269 wrote:
Erik Mona wrote:

Thanks for the feedback! I am stoked that people are getting these, as we worked really hard on them to make them as awesome as humanly possible.

They definitely make an awesome upgrade to the card game. If these sell well enough, I hope you can convince WhizKids to do the non-iconic PACCG characters in similar packages.

And I wholeheartedly encourage every PACG player to make sure these sell well enough that Erik can have that conversation with Whiz Kids.

Agreed. I picked my set up at my FLGS and the minis look great and the cards are all very cool. The only problem I have is that the only iconic with a class deck that I really love playing in the card game right now is Lem and not only is he not in the first two sets like the rest of the class deck iconics out so far, but he's not even going to be in set 3. I really hope he's in set 4. If not, please release the Alchemist Class Deck in the next wave and have it out somewhat in time for the Season of the Righteous! Actually, maybe just make new class decks the priority (I'd really like to see what a Monk Class Deck would be like, too). After playing Lem (S&S) as my primary character in Shackles OP and trying at least a few scenarios with all of the other class decks, I'd like to try some new classes.


Please cancel my Pathfinder Card Game Subscription. I will resubscribe once the option to start with the Wrath of the Righteous Character Add-On Deck is made available. Thank you very much and have a great day.

=Aaron Rabold (pluvia33)

I just got my set from my FLGS. I never got any of the other Pathfinder Battles minis or any pre-painted RPG minis for that matter, but these really do look great! I'm glad that the card game promos gave me just enough of a push to start buying these now. I'll probably get all of the sets as the come out, budget willing, and hopefully also get some other Battles minis as well.

I just finished playing this scenario tonight with two of my most dedicated players. We're a party of spell casters with Kyra (CD), Seoni (Runelords), and my Lem (S&S). With each of us having either a Scrying or Augury, this scenario was pretty simple. Since the Shrouded Queen had to be the last card in the deck to beat her anyway, we made sure to scout the crap out of her location after the other location in Group 2 was closed, then put her on the bottom when we found her. Then we all went over to Group 1 to beat that villain and all that was left was slapping around the Queen. It was really nice to not have to deal with her stupid henchman. I'm also playing a solo run of the base game with Damiel and she was pretty frustrating since I don't have Scrying or Augury with him.

So yeah, not too difficult for my group, but it was very interesting. Great job putting it together!

Michael Klaus wrote:
I was looking forward to this product but now I am wondering: Are you supposed to put 1 CD in such a box with a lot of spare room? Are you supposed to fit 2 in there without sleeves?

I'll probably never get one of these, but the way I would use it if I did have it is to hold two decks, mostly without sleeves. When you play will class decks in organized play (assuming that's why you would use them for in this case), you only need to sleeve the cards you are using and have some extra sleeves to put acquired cards in to as you play. Sleeving the entire class deck is pretty much a waste. So yeah, I would just sleeve the active cards in my character decks and hopefully have enough room left over for 20 or so additional sleeves, or I'd just keep extra sleeves in a separate basic deck box.

Dave Riley wrote:
I imagine the "non-combat Constitution" stuff is just hedging against future characters or mechanics who might have nontraditional combat stats. I don't know anything about Pathfinder the RPG, so I don't know if there's, like, an "earth wizard" who uses Constitution as their magic stat.

Not saying that I think they'd ever translate it into the card game, but there is a witch class archetype for orcs in the Advanced Race Guide called Scarred Witch Doctor that has this ability:

Constitution Dependent: A scarred witch doctor uses Constitution instead of Intelligence when determining the highest level of spells she can cast, her spell save DCs, number of spells known at 1st level, and any effects of her hexes normally determined by her Intelligence.

So yeah, there is a precedent for Constitution based spell casting. Whether that concept ever actually comes through in the card game remains to be seen, but when it comes to future proofing, better safe than sorry.

Oh, I just checked something and a more likely possibility of constitution based combat is if the card game ever decides to use the Kineticist class from the upcoming Occult Adventures Pathfinder RPG hardcover book. As long as they don't change it from what it was like in the playtest document, they have a number of attack abilities that are constitution based.

Free copy here too if not too late?

Frencois wrote:
Actually I would rather not have a samurai or ninja for example mixed up with the rest of the PACG. For an old European like me, makes no sense.

Yeah, but East Asian inspired nations exist in Golarion (they actually have their own continent, Tian Xia) and the Pathfinder world is set in Golarion, so it makes perfect sense. Some areas are also heavily influenced by Middle Eastern cultures, with Kyra the Cleric, Sajan the Monk, Alahazra the Oracle, and Zadim the Slayer all having Middle Eastern themed ethnicities. Golarion is a big, diverse world and Paizo seems to think rather strongly about giving equal representation of that diversity.

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Andrew L Klein wrote:
The Curse trait is just thematic, but adding Barrier causes it to trigger and allow anything about barriers.

Actually, what it does is let you get rid of the haunts by beating the Witch Doctors that are part of the scenario. Their power only works with barriers that have the Curse trait.

Creating what I would consider to be the perfect artificer class for Pathfinder has been a pet project of mine for years now. Inspired by Owen's work, I've more recently switched it to a mostly-Talented format, with just a few key abilities required to be taken at first level (Arcane Pool, Artifice, and Scribe Scroll). I'm close to having a class that is complete enough for me to be happy with, but I keep adding things to it.

A bit of a sticking point for me right now is an ability I added to let artificers take a homunculus companion which borrows things from animal companions, familiars, and eidolons. I really like how it's coming along so far, but I want to have a lot of homunculus customization options (called advancements) and I've been having trouble thinking of an amount of them that I would consider to be adequate for the ability.

I've bought this product in the hopes that it will give me a lot of inspiration with the construct customizations, and from what I've browsed through so far I don't think it will disappoint. Mobile Suit Golem made me smile. It looks like a lot to digest and I can't wait to really dig into it.

But just to let you know, I did notice that my file didn't have a cover page and I noticed a number of typos/grammar mistakes during just a quick scan of the book. Is this maybe an older draft of the book?

And yes, I would totally enjoy free stuff!

Looks really interesting. I'd love a copy to check it out!

Hawkmoon269 wrote:
FYI: I think pretty much every shark has a power that it can not be evaded.

Except that in this scenario, as far as I know, you don't actually encounter sharks. All of them are replaced by ships since Hammerhead Sharks are non-villain monsters. Therefore, Merisiel can evade away!

I played it the same way as the other members of our group argued. To me, it is clear that the intent is that recharging the ally is the cost for drawing the card. Would it be better and more clear if it said, "recharge it to draw a card"? Maybe. When I told everyone that scenario trumps location, no one made the same argument that you are.

The question you should ask yourself is this: If the scenario rule wasn't there, would you think it would be okay to not recharge the ally you acquired and still draw the card? If you say no, then that conflicts with your interpretation of this situation. If you say yes, then that is a very interesting and literal was of interpreting the Alehouse location.

But who knows. Maybe I'm wrong about the intent of the location and you are allowed to keep the ally and still draw a card.

Yep, that force damage. I was looking through my deck yesterday and was like, oh yeah, I remember you from the playtest.... One of the most stressful things I've ever faced in the game, although she wouldn't be too bad as long as you have at least one armor to bury/banish (preferably two).

I just check her scenario, and there are no armor cards in the first three locations. I'm really going to have to hope that my solo Damiel isn't going to have to face her more than once! Should be fun.

Is there any chance of this being available via local game stores' distributors, or will is be online or from Paizo only?

Since I've gone all PDF with my RPG books and got a card game subscription for the promo cards, I try to find any excuse I can to still spend money at my local store. This potentially seems like a very good excuse to me.

zeroth_hour wrote:
I'm a subscriber, so I have all of S&S (now, since In Hell's Heart just arrived yesterday).

Lucky! I just checked my tracking and my order was in El Paso yesterday (about 90 miles from where I live). It'd be nice if it makes it to me today so I can add the promos in for game day tomorrow.

zeroth_hour wrote:

I am considering reevaluating after I get the full WotR set.

1) The pace is very fast, and I don't have a home group. I have limited time to get a group going and I'm a very busy person. I'll probably get a home group going again once I get more time.

I'm kind of in the same boat as you. I have a full time job and take a full time college course load. I run organized play locally and am doing a solo run of the base AP with Damiel when I have time, but it's pretty much the only gaming I'm doing right now (currently taking a break from the RPG). A lot of players have asked for monthly releases after Runelords and Paizo has been able to deliver, but with the extra content from organized play added in it can seem like a little too much too fast and I'm afraid I might get burnt out eventually.

Although I don't think the delay of Wrath until May was planned in any way, I'd really like to see a 2-4 month break in between sets to be a normal thing from now on. I think it can give both players and developers a chance to recharge and catch up with the current set.

Sorry if this is a little off-topic.

For solo runs, it's hard for me to not take the Truewind, especially if the character I'm playing doesn't have any healing ability. Discarding a card from the blessing deck to recharge a card from your discard pile can literally be a lifesaver, and when playing solo you usually have plenty of blessings to spare.

But yeah, in group play it's pretty much always the Kraken or Mistmourn (last month's promo card, reduce structural damage by 2, discard a card from the blessing deck to evade a bane). We'll probably be using both of them in our OP game tomorrow....

Also, in addition to what Hawkmoon said, the PDFs tend to get updated with FAQ and errata every now and then, so in most cases the PDF should be what you use. However, I don't think Valeros has had any updates, so as he said, if there are differences between Valeros' card and the PDF, it might be a typo.

Vic Wertz wrote:
The "Which Scenarios Can I Replay with My Character?" sidebar in the guide will soon be modified by replacing the word "replay" with "play." You are *never* supposed to play a scenario more than 1 set above or below the highest set indicator in your adventure deck.

That seems very restrictive, especially when proceeding upward into adventures. You pretty much have to at least get one set indicator card of your current adventure before you can go on to the next. This can be really hard in Adventure 3 when there is a very large amount of filler compared to set indicator 3 boons. Is it at all possible to change it from 1 to 2 above or below if it's going to include all plays?

Also, Option 1 and Option 3 in the Higher-Level Character rules would no longer be playable. Changing it to 2 above or below would at least keep Option 1 playable.

Tanis O'Connor wrote:
For what it's worth, I am working on getting the proxy cards available in regulation card size, so you can sleeve the Obligatory Kraken or whatever and actually put it into play.

Speaking of making the custom cards in OP more playable, with the progress on the errata decks coming along, has it been considered at all to maybe start making OP Season packs of cards after each season ends? Custom DriveThruCards packs with enough henchmen, villains, ships, loot, etc. to play the season without proxies (and to have a real Councilor’s Ring or other loot cards to use in the following season)?

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mlvanbie wrote:
These cards seem a lot better balanced than the previously-mentioned ones. The Bag of Sticks is best for anyone who isn't Lini....

Well, there are ways for Animal allies to end up in your discard pile other than when you use their power (damage being the main possibility). It seems like a nice emergency button for Lini to cover such situations, and a +2 on Survival and checks to close isn't too shabby either, especially in S&S.

Nice spoilers!

Now, quick question since I'm sure it will come up with my Kyra player and I just want to make sure: does this special blessing count as a Blessing of Sarenrae for the purposes of Kyra's "recharge instead of discarding" power?

Yep, as it stands it looks like Heggal has a new best friend. You won't see it a lot in organized play (especially since Swab is a Basic card), but in a standard home game he may be nice enough for Heggal to keep around for the whole AP. Changing reveal to display would fix the loophole and it would make more sense for all healing powers (on cleric powers, Cure, Surgeon, etc.). The reveal functionally does nothing but let people know what card you are using and makes sure that healing spells aren't discarded/recharged right away.

Congratulations of finding what is likely a new headache for the developers and possibly triggering an update for about 30 cards that are currently in circulation (or just 8 if they only think the cleric powers are likely to end up with loopholes like this).

MightyJim wrote:
zeroth_hour wrote:
I hope Vomit Twin is as much fun in the PACG as it is in the RPG.

what does it do in the RPG?

(I figure it's pointless asking for spoilers of what it does in the card-game, but if there's already information in the public domain from the RPG, we can use that to fuel our speculation)


I'm surprised that I had forgotten about these last two promos from the playtest. I still don't remember exactly what they do in the card game, but I at least remember them being there now that I see the names again. I'm glad I threw out my playtest cards. Makes it more fun when the final version comes out.

So now officially, even when all scenarios are done in order, you can take your third power feat after gaining your role. Nice indeed!

I find it interesting that the Arcane Robes don't have the Arcane trait. Nice item, though. Can be a super Sapphire of Intelligence for some characters if they can guarantee the recharge.

Yes, if you're doing organized play, random card rewards come from your class deck box instead of the game box. From the OP Guide:

"The procedure for earning scenario rewards (or adventure rewards, or adventure path rewards) follows the standard rules with one exception: If you are rewarded with a card from the box, you will instead take a random card of the same type from your Class Deck box. The card you take cannot have an adventure deck number higher than that of the scenario you completed."

Also, back to the Flenta issue, I had an interesting thought. If a Flenta player has at least one spell card feat and is playing with a box that has the add-on deck, she can cast all of her spells and exploit a loophole with Charm Animal. Normally, real spellcasters have to bury the card so they can only gain one animal ally each scenario. Flenta, on the other hand, has to banish it, but can get it right back due to her power. So she can try to go fishing during a scenario and get as many of the animal allies as she can (7 at Adventure 4). Since she can recharge instead of discard her weapons and essentially auto-recharges spells after a point, she can cycle her deck pretty efficiently if played right. This can be enhanced further with role powers. But of course, bad luck with location or plunder pulls can screw the whole thing up.

Vic Wertz wrote:
So Flenta does not cull her deck box, and when she uses her power, she pulls cards from the game box.

I don't think he's misunderstanding, although he did miss one "0" spell. Charm Animal is also Arcane. That gives Flenta 4 spells in the box if the box has the Character Add-On Deck, and only 2 if the box doesn't have the add-on. So those are the only cards she'll be able to get back into her deck whenever she uses her power once Adventure 4 starts. And there is the possibility that some or all of these cards could end up in locations or as plunder.

There is a thread in the VO forums about this issue and this is a very long post I made about it:

Yeah, I don't have a Flenta player, but I have been worried about how her power would mesh with later adventures. I didn't know quite how bad it was until I read what you mentioned, though. For a spell focused Flenta, it can become impossible for her to get an appropriate replacement spell, regardless of if the "0" spells are in the location decks or not. If she took two Spell card feats and played all five of her Class Deck spells, there will be no replacement for the fifth spell no matter what.

Personally, I thought the power was a little too underpowered anyway. Maybe she can have her power changed to something like this:

"After you play a spell that has the Arcane trait for its power, draw a random spell from the box that has an adventure deck number lower than the current scenario, if any, and has the Arcane trait and recharge it."


"After you play a spell that has the Arcane trait for its power, draw a random spell from the box that has the Arcane trait and recharge it. The adventure deck number of the spell must be at least 2 lower than the current scenario, if any."

Unfortunately, these suggestions would increase the power's character count by 31 or 56 when the original power is already rather wordy and I know that tends to be a major concern for the developers. I really can't think of any better way to reword them, though.

But yeah, without any changes to the power, I think the only option you have for the situation is to follow the Golden Rule:

"If a card instructs you to do something impossible, like draw a card from an empty deck, ignore that instruction."

So if Flenta searches every single spell in the box and there is no B, C, or P arcane spell available, she just doesn't get a replacement spell to recharge. Kind of sucks.

It is also worth noting that after mentioning B, C, or P just now, I went ahead and checked the spells in my box as well. Out of the 4 Arcane non-adventure-deck spells that Mike mentioned, 2 of them are C spells. That means if someone is running an OP game without the Character Add-On Deck, Flenta will only have 2 appropriate replacement spells starting with Adventure 4: Speed and Instant Armor. Now that would REALLY suck for her.


EDIT: Just thought of a way to reword the power suggestions that might work to cut down the character count a little:

"After you play a spell that has the Arcane trait for its power, recharge a random spell from the box that has an adventure deck number lower than the current scenario, if any, and has the Arcane trait."


"After you play a spell that has the Arcane trait for its power, recharge a random spell from the box that has the Arcane trait and has an adventure deck number of at least 2 lower than the current scenario, if any."

Does that wording still work? This would bring the re-writes to a 19 or 32 character increase.

Since Pyrocat mentioned Free Captains' Regatta, I think he's asking if you can replay scenarios in a home adventure path, not organized play. In that case, I don't think the rules cover that area. Only time they mention replaying scenarios is for scenarios you previously failed at.

Andrew L Klein wrote:
As linked in the other thread Shade started, Mike confirmed in the past that scenario and adventure rewards are awarded simultaneously prior to rebuild.

So, I'm back to being able to save my Olenjack from taking a 7 card hand size during Adventure 4 by saving 4C for last? And technically I could combine this tactic with not finishing off Adventure 3 before doing Adventure 4 with other characters to easily only need to take 2 power feats from the base card?

If this is allowed, then yes, it is a little wonky and may seem like gaming the system, but again, I personally don't see this as a big deal. It would bring in a special kind of customization that you don't typically have when playing the base game by the standard rules. And when I was going through all of the OP playable characters, there were very few that I'd actually want only two or less power feats from their base card.

Shade325 wrote:
B) Take loot, rebuild, chose a card feat, then take an appropriate (Basic or Adv# minus 2) card from the box at the start of the next scenario to fulfill your card feat.

Actually, with this crazy "strict reading" of the rules, you would get the card to fulfill your card feat at the END of the next scenario when you have a new "Rebuilding" phase. In what phase at the start of your turn are you able to to add a card to your deck?

I'm sorry, but I frankly find this entire argument to be rather stupid and I apologize for the part I had in bringing it up. There is no timing order established in the rules for the application of rewards in relation to scenario rewards, adventure rewards, and the rebuilding phase. The order of sentences in a rule book do not determine the timing of said rules unless there are words such as "then" or "after" and so on.

I'm not saying that this isn't a valid topic. It would be nice to get some clarification on this issue. But thinking for a second that it is intended for you to not be able to get a card to fill in your new card feat at the end of an adventure is just preposterous.

Andrew L Klein wrote:

So, RAW, it goes Scenario Reward > Rebuild & return cards to box > Adventure Reward.

I feel like the intent would have been for all rewards to be simultaneous, but I certainly don't see an overall issue with having to take adventure rewards after the rebuild, requiring Adventure Reward Card Feats to have you pull a card from the box instead of your plunder and earned cards.

Actually, if that is the chronology based on the sequence of sentences, you won't even be able to pull a card from the box to fill an Adventure Reward Card Feat because that is part of the Rebuild phase and you've already passed that. You'd have to play a scenario a card short and then fill the card feat slot from finishing the adventure when you come to the next Rebuild phase.

These two sentences appear in the rule book:

"If the players defeat the villain and prevent him from escaping, or they achieve a different condition for winning listed on the scenario card, your group defeats the scenario and earns the reward listed on the scenario card."

And then:

"If you’ve successfully completed all of the scenarios on the adventure card, you earn the reward on the adventure card."

To me, this is saying that when you have completed the last needed scenario in an adventure, you have earned the reward for the scenario and the adventure at the same time and it doesn't say you can't apply these rewards in any order.

Theryon Stormrune wrote:
If you're trying to play with the sequence, it doesn't work. You might as well ask to hold your rewards until you want to.

My point is that I don't see anywhere in the rules that there is any sequence order given between when you receive scenario and adventure rewards. It seems like you gain them both at once when you successfully complete the last scenario in an adventure. If it is intended to be otherwise, then it should be spelled out.

Right. I'm saying that you play scenario 4C last out of the Adventure 4 scenarios. Then you're completing Adventure 4 and scenario 4C at the same time and getting their rewards (a role and two power feats) at the same time, so you should be able to apply them in any order (as far as I know).

I just had a thought while waiting for scenario 4D to be released. You can play scenarios in any order. Also, as far as I know, you can apply rewards in any order. Therefore, as long as there isn't any kind of lock-out mechanic for scenario 4D similar to the one in scenario 3D, characters should be able to simply save scenario 4C to be the final scenario they play in Adventure 4. They could then take their role reward from completing Adventure 4 and then apply both of their power feat rewards. Does anyone know if this would go against the rules at all? Of course this doesn't help with groups who are all caught up and plan to play the new scenario the week that it comes out, but delaying one scenario is better than delaying your Adventure 3 completion to maintain the standard power feat progression in relation to gaining your role.

bbKabag wrote:
AdaptingFate wrote:
We have multiple games going at the same time, and just break the decks up and shuffle them back in when we switch games.
Normally that's fine. but when the other party gets 3 adventures ahead, and both parties start banishing Basics/Elites, it becomes a lot of work.

Since I run organized play with my personal base set, I plan on just using the organized play rules for purging Basic and Elite cards for my home game. This will change the dynamic a lot, causing you to encounter more power banes and boons more often right away once you start Adventure 4, but I think it would make the game pretty interesting. However, I haven't tried it yet since I'm waiting for the Adventure 4 correction pack before I start it in my home game.

You are right, and thank god for that! Storm is already one of the least fun barriers in the game. If you never get lucky enough to role a six, your only hope to get away from it is for it to move to a closed location (or at least an unoccupied location for a little bit).

Just last night in a two character game, my heart sank with dread when the other player drew a storm on his first turn. It's a horrible thing to have a Storm come up so early, with no locations closed yet. But then, on his next turn, he rolled a 6 and we cheered! Luck was on our side!

Anyway, the card says, "If you start your turn at this location [comma]". I really don't see how anyone can read it any way other than "when you start your turn at the same location as the Storm, you have to do stuff." This is a storm. Not a global catastrophe.

Shade325 wrote:
pluvia33 wrote:
Yeah, I already messed this up for my solo Olenjack character since I finished Adventure 3 with him before scenario 4C was available, but from now on (unless they decide to change the 4C reward and move that power feat to, say, 5A), I'm going to be sure to not finish Adventure 3 with any of my characters until I've finished Adventure 4. That way I'd only have to take 3 power feats before selecting my roles. I'll suggest the same to the rest of the people in my group unless some of them are totally fine with taking all four of their base power feats. This would also give players plenty of time to finish scenarios 3A, 3B, and 3C before the group tries 3D.
Ugh... I hate that the system can be gamed like this. If you really wanted to game it you could skip 2D and 3 Adv, play through 4 Adv but take no level 4 upgrades, then get your role card and go back complete 2D and 3 Adv and pick those power feats from your role card.

Personally, I feel that this situation kind of backs people into a corner and encourages gaming the system a little. And yes, you could technically also skip scenarios 1C and 2D. Then you would only be forced to take one power feat (the one for scenario 4C) before you gain your role. You could even just start your character at Adventure 4 by the rules in the Guide.

I don't really see a problem with this because it comes with risks. For one, you're going to be underpowered (literally) when you play Adventure 4. You would also be missing out on, at minimum, the Adventure 1 card feat and all of the Loot cards from the first three adventures. An even bigger risk is that if you take a set indicator 4 deck upgrade during your run to get your role (something that's very easy to do thanks to the start of the Basic/Elite purge), you would only have one shot to win your Adventure 1 and 2 scenarios. If you fail, you won't be able to replay them. If you play it safe in this aspect and never go higher than a set indicator 2 upgrade, you'll run into the same problem during the Adventure 4 run. If you don't take at least a 3 upgrade, you can't replay an Adventure 4 scenario.

Balkar wrote:
Pulvia, why doesn't your wife just replay the failed scenario solo (or duo with you) quick before the next session? I know there are rules for that in the OP guide.

Personal answer, but it's mostly just an issue of time. We both work full time and are taking full time collage course loads right now. She is also not as huge of a fan of the game as I am. It's not that we CAN'T catch her up, it's a lack of time and the lack of desire to put what little time we have alone together into playing the game (on her end).

Yeah, I already messed this up for my solo Olenjack character since I finished Adventure 3 with him before scenario 4C was available, but from now on (unless they decide to change the 4C reward and move that power feat to, say, 5A), I'm going to be sure to not finish Adventure 3 with any of my characters until I've finished Adventure 4. That way I'd only have to take 3 power feats before selecting my roles. I'll suggest the same to the rest of the people in my group unless some of them are totally fine with taking all four of their base power feats. This would also give players plenty of time to finish scenarios 3A, 3B, and 3C before the group tries 3D.

zeroth_hour wrote:
pluvia, the rule says that you may only gain the reward once, not that any replayed scenarios don't get a reward. So the thing you're worried about in 1 doesn't happen.

I'm confused. How does my concern in 1 not happen? The concern isn't about weather or not you can gain the reward on a replay. It's about losing the ability to replay a failed scenario if you upgraded your deck too far. Vic has confirmed that 1 is the proper definition of a replay, so if my wife wants to continue to play with the group, we I can't let her take any card upgrades higher than a 2 or she will be locked out of ever being able to try and complete Ghosts of the Deep, and in effect would never be able to complete Adventure 1, based on the rule elcoderdude quoted.

Even if she successfully completed Ghosts of the Deep before she took a 3 or higher deck upgrade, but didn't go ahead and play the and succeed at the rest of the scenarios, she'd then only have one chance to complete all of the other scenarios. The deck appropriate power level rule only goes into effect for replays, so she can play a lower level scenario for the first time, but if she then ended up having bad luck on Nature's Wrath and failed it, she could not replay it until she "upgraded" her deck down. Otherwise she'd have to deal with having an underpowered character for the rest of the Adventure Path.

And since the rule works in the other direction as well, if she did keep her highest upgrade at a 2 card and the group failed at an Adventure 4 scenario and wanted to replay it right away, she wouldn't be able to participate. This is an aspect of the rule that can really be a potential problem for any character. If for whatever reason a player just doesn't like any of the 3 cards in their character's class deck, or just has some bad luck and is unable to gain any 3 upgrades, they could be unable to replay an Adventure 4 scenario due to this rule. Granted, it's pretty unlikely that you'd not be able to get a deck 3 or 4 upgrade when you play an Adventure 4 scenario due to the wonderful Basic/Elite purge, but it is a possibility.

Hawkmoon269 wrote:
I don't really understand the whole thing about not taking the reward. Can you succeed and decide to not take the reward? And if so, why would you?

I believe it has been mentioned by Tanis or others that you can elect to not take a reward, although the Guide does not seem to explicitly say you can that. It can probably be debated weather or not the Guide implies that taking the reward is optional upon a success.

As for why you would elect not to take a reward, here's a situation: You're playing with Siwar for the first time with a new party. You're starting out with Ghosts of the Deep. Your party wins, but you are pretty happy with the spells you already have so you don't really need the random spell reward. You think the random weapon might be nice, but you don't have a weapon card slot in your deck yet. So you elect to not take the reward. When you finish Adventure 1, you gain a card feat and take a weapon slot. You then go back through Ghosts of the Deep with a different party and this time take the reward, hoping to pull one of the magic daggers as your random weapon.

Probably not one of the best examples, but that's a type of situation in which you might not want to take the reward on your first play of a scenario.

The Guide to Pathfinder Society Adventure Card Guild Organized Play puts some restrictions on what scenarios a character can replay. However, as far as I can tell it doesn't explicitly describe what a "replay" is. I could see three possible definitions of a Replay as far as Organized Play is concerned:

1. The most basic definition would be a play of any scenario which the character has played before. The big problem I see with this definition is that if a character fails a scenario, but decides to go on with the rest of the group, they could eventually be locked out of ever being able to complete the earlier failed scenario. For example, my wife has been playing sporadically. She has currently played and completed two Adventure 2 scenarios and played and failed an Adventure 1 scenario. My group is currently getting ready to run through Adventure 3. If she were to jump in and gain a set 3 deck upgrade, she would never be able to finish Adventure 1 unless she played a scenario and "upgraded" down to a lower set number card to replace the set 3 card.

2. A Replay is when a character plays a scenario which they have already played and gained a Success in. This could potentially lock a character out of being able to take a scenario's reward if they decided to not take it the first time.

3. A Replay is when a character plays a scenario which they have already played and gained a Success in and from which they taken the reward. The problem with this definition is that it could be abused to let a character always be able to replay a scenario, such as Ghosts of the Deep, by just choosing to never take the reward so they can be available to help other characters through the scenario.

So which definition is proper for Organized Play and can it be spelled out better in future versions of the guide?

Andrew L Klein wrote:
What do you mean by "appropriate for Organized Play"?

I mean Loot that can work fine without modification with the "temp replace" mechanic. Basically any loot that doesn't have any powerful "Banish" or "Remove from play" powers like the mentioned Immortal Dreamstone and Vailea. Allowing cards like those in Organized Play with the "temp replace" mechanic causes a loophole, allowing for someone to use these powerful abilities during multiple scenarios when they originally weren't supposed to by design.

Andrew L Klein wrote:
6 loot in too many adventures is going to get a little crazy. That's one per scenario, plus one for the adventure, or you end up with a multiple scenarios in one adventure giving multiple loot and really upping the power level. An adventure, maybe two, per adventure path works with that, but I think going past that might be a bit much.

I think having 6 loot cards in three of the six Adventures for a Path wouldn't be too crazy. Like I said, We almost have that many in Skull & Shackles with Adventures 4 and 5 only being one short from that mark. Adventure 2 gives out its 7 loot cards over three scenarios, with 2-3 cards each. The thing about Loot cards, or any cards for that matter, is that they tend to work for specific play styles. It's not likely that a character would actually want every single Loot card that comes their way, but they really shouldn't and that doesn't mean that some Loot cards are bad. It just means that they don't fit everyone's needs.

I love how Loot works in Organized Play. The temporarily replacing mechanic makes the cards very versatile and kind of makes more sense to the party. I mean, why would the party just ditch that weird artifact or say good-bye to that ally they just saved and never call upon them again?

In particular, I really like how the Adventure 2 Loot reward works in Organized play. With a whopping 7 Loot cards, there are plenty for everyone to pick on of them, even in a 6-character game, all under one reward. Unfortunately, this is the only Adventure in Skull & Shackles with 6 or more OP appropriate Loot cards. Adventures 4 and 5 come close with 5 Loot cards, but even then not all of them may be appropriate with the "temporarily replace" mechanic, such as the Immortal Dreamstone and Vailea, since they have powerful Banish powers.

So I was thinking, might it be possible to have more Adventure Decks in
Wrath of the Righteous and future Adventure Paths which have at least 6 Loot cards that are appropriate for Organized Play? I think that'd be a very nice thing to consider, as long as it wasn't forced, still felt organic to the game. Any thoughts?

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