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if you really want to just not see them...
just put them on your list and you never see them again (unless you are on a different computer or something like that)
Eric Brittain wrote:
yeah, and (IMHO) we can all be that problem player sometimes. we all have a little problem player inside, trying to get out.
repost on this:
PCs don't kill players fun....Players kill (other) players fun.
if you have someone who is a jerk and give him an Iconic, he is still a jerk. He can still ruin everyone's day. (and sometimes we can all be a jerk). If everyone at the table were to pass their PCs one player to the left... you would still get jerk players being a jerk. He'd just be doing it with someone else's PC. And most likely complaining about it. And the food/weather/noise/etc.
Let's all try to NOT be that jerk player. Does this mean we should quit building (yeah, I'm using the hot button term) Min/Maxed PC's? nope. Give a Min/Max PC to a great player that is fun to play with an' you know what? everyone has a fun time. Give a Sub-Par PC to a Jerk, and he'll find a way to reduce the fun at the table... it's part of being a jerk. (and I repeat, we all have a little of that jerk in us, really).
Let's all play nice. Have fun. Be someone everyone at your table enjoys playing a game with.
Clearly we have a difference of opinion on this.
But no need to derail this thread.
I'm still holding out for a "Shower re-roll" -
I've been tempted to tell players at my table on the 3rd and 4th day of a Con that I'll let them take a re-roll if they have had a shower (and put on clean clothing!) in the last 12 hours.
I'm sure someone will object that it's against the rules... but hay! it's a good idea. Oh! and maybe brushed their teeth or had a breath mint too.
There's a big "stargate" right there in El that links straight to Golarion, so the physical part of travel wouldn't be that rough. But, yeah, the political aspects would have to be thought through a tad. Not hard to do though. You're concept of an exchange program actually sounds very workable.
why do I keep getting flashes of Coneheads and "We're from Taldor!"
"Slaves were considered property under Roman law and had no legal personhood. Unlike Roman citizens, they could be subjected to corporal punishment, sexual exploitation (prostitutes were often slaves), torture, and summary execution. The testimony of a slave could not be accepted in a court of law unless the slave was tortured—a practice based on the belief that slaves in a position to be privy to their masters' affairs would be too virtuously loyal to reveal damaging evidence unless coerced. Over time, however, slaves gained increased legal protection, including the right to file complaints against their masters. "
Roman law - experienced with slaves - considered the default slave to be loyal.
People get upset if you challenge their beliefs, and sometimes do strange things. Like locking people up "to keep them free".
Nah, only bad faction members. You always know who they're working for.
Kind of like the Janissaries, 400 years working for the establishment.
Ah, I think I understand now...
"Wuher: Hey! We don't serve their kind here.
"Luke Skywalker: What?
"Wuher: Your droids. They'll have to wait outside. We don't want them here.
"C3PO: Come on R2, we'll wait outside"
So I guess I'm not a "Real Pathfinder"... but then I never claimed to be. Just a Slave.
My master may be... but then I don't speak for him. You'll need to ask him I guess.
The same thing could be said of any Cleric "... primary loyalty first and foremost, beyond nationality, race, or creed, is to ..." his/her god. Or Paladins. Or Hellknights. Or... heck, any other class. In fact, this statement "...you play a character whose primary loyalty first and foremost, beyond nationality, race, or creed, is to the Pathfinder society." is just not true.
We play persons who are Pathfinders. We are working for the Pathfinder Society. We have other obligations - in fact, it can be said that I have fewer obligations as a slave, and thus less distractions from my role in the Society. Or viewed in another way - I am as much a member of the Society as the Paladins Mount, or the Summoner's Eidolon, or the Druid's Animal Companion.
But, I guess if working with a Slave offends you, I will try to stay out of your sight (I have a very high stealth after all, and am very hard to see), and will endeavor not to be noticed by my betters. I do know my place sir. (There is a bit of anti-slave feelings in some freemen, I realize this)
Brian Lefebvre wrote:
heck, that may explain a lot of things...
"What do you mean they haven't left yet? Wake them up! I don't care if it IS THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT! They were there - in an hour - so we have to get them on their way so they can be there - like they were!"
If you can't worship aroden they need to take a few things off of the additional resources lists so they don't become a trap option, devotee of a dead god being one of them.
???BNW - I think this landed in the wrong thread...
Dave Setty wrote:
And you reactions to my in character posts drove me off the board. And almost caused me to put you into my Ignore filter
Liz Courts wrote:
Thank you Liz.I have given up posting on this thread though..
Dave Setty wrote:
LOL! ok, as a thought exercise then.
My current Master is very happy with my services, and considers me a very valuable item. And had turned down several offers for me (some from well meaning members of the Society who mistakenly felt I was unhappy with my place in life). And as he, and his family is very much involved in the Society, and takes his obligations very seriously, I find this unlikely to happen. And so it would take a lot for him to have business dealings with the Aspis Consortium, let alone sell me off to them... but leaving all that aside. Say he is dominated and compelled to sell me. This could happen I guess...
Well, I would likely (try to!) become an agent working for the Aspis Consortium. Much like a (freeman) Eagle Knight who found that the Society was (gasp!) keeping slaves... and decided, on his own, to undermine the Society.
But, seeing as the sale of such a valuable property (me) would require paperwork to be filed (taxes you know), there would be a public record of the shift in my allegiance. Forms filled out, ownership established. You see, my Master (who ever that might be) is a matter of public record, and has to be. As my owner is responsible for my actions (as all slave holders are). If I cause trouble, damage things, or even kill someone ("murder hobo" after all), my owner is responsible. Just like if his horse or his children damage things. My loyalty (unlike that Eagle Knight above) is a matter of public record.
OH! and it would require more than just a sending spell to inform me of this change. Again, paperwork you know. Got to provide me with the proper ownership paperwork you know.
Kind of like a persons citizenship paperwork. Got to be able to show who owns you...
Bill Dunn wrote:
I was not saying there is NO chance for treachery - there always is.
I was saying that there is not MORE chance for treachery from slaves than from freemen.
Dave Setty wrote:
most likely the same thing you would do if in the middle of a mission you get a sending from your Faction Leader/Venture Captain/King/Mayor/Athority Figure that said "Due to changes in the political situation we are changing our approach. After your mission, meet me at [this here address] in Absalom. Do not inform the other Pathfinders. Oh! and bring this valuable thing you are likely to find on your current missing - without anyone else finding out you recovered it."
Bill Dunn wrote:
check out the history of the Janissaries in the Ottoman Empire sometime.
or the Egyptian mamluks...
Not true. The Abolitionist movement in Britain is just one example...
Dave Setty wrote:
?? what ??You don't trust me, because I'm a slave? what?
There is no more chance of my "switching sides" by being sold in the middle of a mission than one of my companions. Less in fact.
edit: from the Wikipedia article I quoted above, "... the belief that slaves in a position to be privy to their masters' affairs would be too virtuously loyal to reveal damaging evidence unless coerced...."
Dave Setty wrote:
Hi!I'm a Pathfinder and a slave. OH! and a human (Ulfen). and a woman. and a Rogue (Knife Master) 7/Fighter 1
From Wikipedia article "Slavery in ancient Rome"
"...Roman slaves could hold property which, despite the fact that it belonged to their masters, they were allowed to use as if it were their own. Skilled or educated slaves were allowed to earn their own money, and might hope to save enough to buy their freedom..."
It was not unknown for a Roman slave to buy themselves free... to become freemen thru their own labor.
If a judge at a table asked me to stop doing something because it was "bothered him and made it hard for him to run the game" I'd stop doing it. If I was rattling dice on the table top (something that I ask players to PLEASE not do when I am talking) and the judge asked me to stop - I would.
Some things I've been asked to stop -
Heck - this is about ETIQUETTE - about "playing nice" together. Something we should all try to do together right?
If anyone at the table asks me to stop some easily controlled thing - like roll different dice, or switch to a different PC (I have over 2 dozen now and easily have another 2 or 3 in any sub-tier) - I DON'T CARE WHY - I'd stop. Maybe his dead wife always played that kind of PC. WHATEVER the reason. I wanna be his friend. I want him to have fun. If it helps him have fun, and doesn't hurt my fun, why not do it if he asks nice?
and you know what? Some months later I played for him again (the same PC in fact) and we talked before the game and he told me to just play my girl the way I had her. Whatever his issue with it was, he was working thru it, and I was willing to give him the space to do it.
"Old Granny McFanny"? do I know this lady? surely not...
It wasn't really about kobolds per se(unless we are thinking of a different convo) but Evil races in general. Those aren't happening.
For evil races there are:
Goblin PCs (limited few in number I realize...)
Tieflings (as Evil as any of the other Evil races - it's in the blood!)
the most common EVIL race:
ok, I made my save for a while... but now it looks like I missed it - please excuse the rant... this has been picking at me for a couple days now and I need to just rant some...
This topic is not new. (not to detract from the OP, as I am sure it is bothering them, I just think they are directing their upset at the wrong target.)
Character Types, even ones with ACs don't kill players fun....Players kill (other) players fun (and sometimes their own).
If we have someone who is a jerk and give him an Iconic/Generic PC, he is still a jerk. He can still ruin everyone's day. (and yes, sometimes we can all be a "jerk"). If everyone at the table were to pass their PCs one player to the left... we would still get jerk players being a jerk. He'd just be doing it with someone else's PC. And most likely complaining about it. And the food/weather/noise/etc.
Let's all try to NOT be that jerk player. Does this mean we should quit building characters with ACs/Helpers/Summoned monsters/whatever? IMHO nope. Give a "problem" PC to a great player that is fun to play with an you know what? everyone at the table has a fun time. Give a standard PC to a Jerk, and he'll find a way to reduce the fun at the table... that's part of being a jerk. (and I repeat, we all have a little of that jerk in us, really we do...).
SO, let's all play nice together. Have fun. Be someone everyone at your table enjoys playing a game with. Try to tone down the Inner Jerkness that is in all of us...
And you know what? in the end we'll all have fun - and that's what it's all about right?
For years I have noticed two general kinds of Players (and we are players on both sides of the DM Screen) – which I refer to as falling into the “Two Schools of RPG Gaming.”
School 1: RPG’s are games that pit the skill and wit of the player against DM (and her skill and wit).
School 2: RPG’s are games in which the players (the DM being one) have adventures together.
For myself, I’m in School 2, which is why I often show my "gimmicks" to the other players (even the guy running the game). I mean I may never use them in the game, but if I share them we can all enjoy them – or looked at it another way I “use” them each time I show them to someone. I like to think I’m playing the game WITH the other players when I do this, not AGAINST them. And the guy/girl running the game is (to me) just another player so why wouldn't I show them the cool thing too?
But there are lots of players (again, both sides of that DM screen) who are in School 1. When I show them a cute trick they are driven to try to counter it, perhaps spending hours or days coming up with reasons why it wont work (often keeping these secret so they can spring them in a "gotcha!" moment) – sometime saying it will not work for this or that reason, or even “not in my game!”. Sometimes these can be real stretches of reality or game mechanics. But you see, they are playing against the other players and a gimmick is something they have to counter to "win".
Personally, I try to avoid the School 1 types – both Judges and players (I think there are lots more players then judges in school #1). IMO School 1 types don’t often make good Judges.) Mostly I do this because I seem to have less fun in games with them.
This is not to say that a School 2 Judge (or player for that matter!) will let something slide – good ones don’t. But if we are “talking shop” they will often say – “that might not work because of X” and some might even add “but if you did Y also…”.
School 1 - Confrontational - "It's US vs. THEM" or "It's YOU vs. ME".
School 2 - Conspiratorial - "We're playing this game TOGETHER".
I'm a cook by profession, so I hands out recipes at the VC briefing when I go on missions... often I bring what's on "todays special"
Last game it was:
Coconut Drop Cookies:
Preheat the oven to 375 degrees F. Line a baking sheet with parchment or wax paper.
Roll the cookie dough into 1-inch balls and place them 2 inches apart on the baking sheet.
Bake for 10 minutes, or until browned on the bottom and around the edges. Cool the cookies on a wire rack. Store in an airtight container & transports well in a Handy Haversack.
I think it would depend on the paladin's specific code (some forbid deception I believe) and how important the mission is and whether there is any other way.
And the Judge. Some rule that a paladin can't even use bluff.
I do okay with my broom - and for ranged I throw shoes!
wait, did you say "Kids" or "Kobolds"... my hearings not what it used to be you know...
With the "...it's what my PC would do" thread up on the board so much, I was feeling the need to give a different picture, so I dug this one up and floated it to the top of the board.
SO, answers can be In Character or Out Of Character or even just general ideas... or even things you've seen other PCs do...
"What does your character bring to the table to make the game more fun for the other people there?"...
here's a repost of my advice from years ago...
one bit of advice from one wizard to another. It helps to have a list of the spells in your book that you can hand to another player. I use a page in a sheet protector separate from my Character Folder (so if it's lost I can just reprint it. On this sheet I also note if the spell is on the Alchemist or Magus lists.) That way it doesn't cut into table time while he reviews your book to see what he can use/wants/doesn't have. I also stick on a big sticky note - that way, when he returns the spell list to you, he should have noted what he has that you don't - that you can add to your book. I get him to note his PFS character number too, that way you have a record of who you got the spell from. So it goes something like this:
sharing spell books:
me to other player as we are sitting down at the table: "here's my spell book. Look thru and copy what you want. I'd like you to note what you have that I don't on this. Pass it back when your done."
Me to the Judge: "If we have time & money before the adventure - we'll copy spells, if not, we'll do it at the end afterword. Is that ok? I'll copy anything he has that I don't."
I've had more than one player say "heck, even if we stop the game now, I've had a GREAT game! I'm a lot poorer - but LOTS of new spells!"
This way it only takes a couple minutes away from the RP of the table, reduces table crosstalk, does the needed bookwork, and (most important) doesn't cut into the DMs time/setup/etc. And can be done in across a crowded table in a noisy ballroom in between total strangers... with minimum impact in the game at the table.
It often results in a Wizard player who spends the first 10 minutes of the game with his nose in a spell book - giggling to himself. But I figure this is good role play. Every wizard/Magus/Alchemist is a little bit crazy...
After this I stick the Sticky note on the back of the Chronicle for that game, marking the total cost on my ITS and Chronicle and add the spells to my Book List some time later.
I have been making my Will save to resist posting to this thread... but it looks like I finally rolled a "1". And my re-roll was another "1"... even with 4 stars, a "1" still fails so...
Often the conflict inside the group ISN'T the "fault" of the PC - the classic line "...it's what my character would do..." has the unspoken "...the way I play her..." attached to it someplace.
Old story time.
The game has hardly started and there is heard the statement "because that's what my character would do". 4 players grit their teeth and game on ("we can get thru this if we just ignore him").
Then the story plot takes a strange twist. The players are instructed to pass their PCs to the player to the player to their left, who would now play that PC during the adventure. "Due to some 'wierd magical effect' you are controlling a different PC for this game..."
We'd all like to think the SCP would magically become a fun player. After all, he was playing with a "fun" PC now - one that had not had any issues up to this point (or in any of the games before this).
No, the player was STILL a (SCP), but he got to be that way with someone else's PC.
He (the SCP) was such a problem that the actual owner of the PC he was running threatened to kill the PC. (He asked the judge if it would be suicide if he killed his own PC).
It is worth noting that the SCPs PC, run in the hands of a different player, was a lot of fun to have at the table.
Often the problem is not the PC. Often it's the player...
Let's all try not to be THAT player...
In one game, we ran a bluff that we were an Aspis Team posing as a Pathfinder team - which explained why we had a few Wayfinders with us, and no Aspis badges.
"It would blow our cover to be carrying our Badges - so we left them back at Base.
The funniest part was when one of the players kept getting mixed up and saying she was a Pathfinder and the NPC would just say something like "Yeah, I got that"...
Yeah - we were Pathfinders, claiming to be Aspis agents posing as Pathfinders...
this happened in a home game, so maybe is out of place on the PFS board, but it makes a nice story.
Setting is: Group of PCs (delivery men) shortly after entering an old ruined temple, are ambushed without warning by a group from hiding.
Player #1:"who the heck are these guys and what kind of people attack without warning?"
heck, while we are talking about Rogues...
here's a story from a PFS game not to long ago...
Two rogues are flanking a chair (animated object) when the following was said:
Younger gamer Rogue: "Can you get sneak dice on a chair?"
Older gamer (old school) Rogue: "Only if you stab it in the BACK!"
a random sabotage idea...
Creating a number of "treasure maps" to the lair area, to be scattered out to a variety of places... seedy bars, rumor mongers, stuck in old books in musty old book shops, in equipment at second hand weapons/magic item shops, etc. Thus "bands of adventurers" will continue to show up for years...
IMHO: How do we fix this problem? The same way we handle this on the kindergarten playground....
As a player, I would think twice about playing at a table with this player (or players) again. And warm my friends to avoid him (like you have by posting here). If it gets to be a habit, (and it seems like it has) I never sit at a table with him.... Yes, I have gotten up when someone was added at the last minute (3 other players also got up and that table dissolved - yes the player being avoided was that bad. Life is to shot for bad gaming).
As a Judge, I'd point out to the player that there are other players that might not play with him again....see above.
This problem can only be fixed by the players who are doing it...The problem child will need to fix this, or eventually he/they will not be welcome at games (or will move on to another group - or my friends and I will).