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nah, people arguing about apple pie, and if you could cut a pie into 6 pieces or 7, that would remind me of the Take 10 threads... (esp. when it is common sense to see it's 3.14159 pieces...).
Clearly you have a different definition of "power gamer" than most of the rest of us currently posting.
If you start your definition with "cheats"... Then clearly you have left my definition behind. I consider a power gamer to be VERY careful to always be inside the rules, otherwise they have left the game out of their play....
Sure - but that means when people say things like "I was at a table full of Aasimar last game" I wonder if there were 3+ of the same bloodline of Aasimar... say 3 Azata blooded.
It would be like saying "I was at a table last week with 3+ humanoids (an Elf, a Dwarf and a Gnome)..." One a Wizard, one a Cleric and the other a Bard.
There are different breeds of Aasimar that would be good as all three of those - just as there are different breeds of humanoid...
Hrothdane - your story caused me to remember something I often do during introductions at the table...
During introductions at the start of a game, I will, in a faux French accent, ask each other PC (often starting with any young ladies at the table) "Are you currently involved in a long term relationship?" I normally get stammers and blushes. my PC goes on to say "I am a Matchmaker by profession you see, it is my 'day job' (finger quotes) - so if you might be interested in such a relationship, perhaps we might discuss some of my other clients? My card - " and I hand out a business card. At this point I switch to my OOC voice and say ... "Role Play often suffers due to time constraints, and we only have a limited time for this tonight so..." Back in character voice "Sigh... It appears that we have got to save the world again now, perhaps after that we'll find your one true love, yes?"
Necroing a thread I liked...
every now and again we should have a thread like this pop up on the board.
Share a story or two... something that made you laugh...
Last Con I was at, last day of the CON, the party was ambushed in an ally by a band of thugs. The Rogue in the party wins Init. and (played by a very shy young lady) wants to use Intimidate to bypass the combat encounter. So she pulls her dagger and says something like..."Ah, go away or, ah, I'll stick you." and says it real softly. And get's something like a 32 in the Intimidate (at sub-tier 4-5).
I was running a Diplomacy/Bluff focused Bard and was going next in Init, but heck - I'm not going to steal her moment so I just add "She'll turn you into a newt." Pointing at the snake AC in the party, "There's the last guy who got in her way..." using Bluff to support her threat.
We did have to wait thru the Initiative order for all of them to melt away...
this is sort of a repost from another (older) thread on Masterwork tools, and the important part that I can see for PFS is that players often forget to tell the judge they are using a masterwork tool. Sometimes they just add it into their skill bonus and forget it themselves.
I personally use a PC sheet written in with a pencil partly so I can note which of my skills have a MW Tool associated with them (or other odd bonuses). That way, when the judge calls for a skill check on a PC that I may run once every six months (if that often), I can glance down and see the skill bonus listed as +5M, and know that the M means I have a Masterwork Tool for that skill. I then can say something like "Take 10 gives me a 15, 17 with my Masterwork Tool."
I have noticed some other players who use MW Tools will just add the bonus into their skill number, and often even forget that it is there. (Does Hero-Lab at it in automatically?) So the question "What's your Stealth" nets a reply of "+10" which might or might not include a bonus for a Masterwork tool (felt slippers to muffle footsteps perhaps?). This is in effect transferring "control" of the circumstance bonus given by a Masterwork Tool from the Judge to the player, or even to the game mechanic if the player forgets how he gets the total bonus he has.
Is this actually a problem? I'm not sure. Do you think it is?
Here's some questions for those players who use MW Tools on their PCs... how do you let a judge know that you are using one? Do you do it every time?
I know I don't, and I try to. But in the heat of the game, when the judge has "the flow" of the story going, it sometimes get's lost in the play. The question "Stealth?" get's a reply of "20" instead of "Take 10 plus 8, plus 2 for my Masterwork Tool of felt slippers gives me a 20" because it is just more "in the flow" - keeping the story going.
So, something I think we should all try to remember able Generic Masterwork tools... you need permission to get the bonus. It's a circumstance bonus, and circumstance bonuses are (and should be) under the control of the Judge, as they are the only person at the table who knows all the circumstances involved. So it is a bonus they should apply - or not, depending on circumstances.
There, just felt that needed to be added to this thread, now I'll go back to lurking...
then you are blessed. And I hope this continues for you. (truly and not in a snarky way or anything.)
Daniel Myhre wrote:
I think that is what Fox and I have both been saying.
Other options have been tried. They failed. that leaves two options. Leave the table when said person shows up (withdraw if they sign up early), or, if you are the judge, ask for them to be seated elsewhere. (and if they can't, just withdraw from judging yourself).
edit: Life is to short for bad gaming.
If it's not fun, don't do it...
There are people that I will not sit at a table with. If that means I bail from judging the table, well, I guess that means I bail. Having me judge for one of them would not be a good experience for me or them, and likely not for anyone else stuck at that table.
how is NOT having a Core character "...having more options"? Isn't that restricting you more? Means you can't play Core games, right?
lol! The foundation of this game is a group of people sitting around a table having fun.
I actually was playing when the hobby was making the jump from a Combat Simulation game (Chainmail)... to RPG (D&D). Lots of fun. Know the history.
But this is NOT at it's core a Combat Game (at least not for all the players) - some of the best scenarios have little or no combat.
Ouch! "But you're playing the wrong game." ... sorry, I don't think so. I rather enjoy this game I play, played the way I play. This is too close to saying I am playing the game wrong or having "bad-wrong-fun".
The encounter was actually in a home game many years ago (back before swarms were a monster, and clerics "dusted" undead who were less than half their level. And detect undead would have given them away... And a lot of other things.) The game was A LOT of FUN. Which is the important part right?
let's hope the wall isn't load bearing...
played in a game once where we slipped into an Evil Temple that had fancy columns that looked like a mass of skeletons holding up a dark cloud. We moved up to examine the alter, and were attacked by pair of Specters that came out of the back wall. The Cleric Channeled and the GM commented that the columns WERE actual skeletons holding up the stone ceiling... and they only had 4 HP each...
Matthew Downie wrote:
Normally instead of "I'm going to have to walk into it and set it off" my players would say, "I summon a monster on to it," or "I poke it with a ten foot pole," or "I throw a big rock at it."
or..."what the heck did we do with that goblin body?..."
James Anderson wrote:
Doesn't one of the Aasimar bloodlines have "Cat-like" features? So, with those boons being in the current release mix, you might look at running an Aasimar.
A post back on the topic listed in the title:
First, let me make a clear statement. A judge (and a player) always has the option to leave. Always. Whatever the reason. We are all friends here (I hope) and friends DON'T force friends to do things they don't want to. So whatever your reason for leaving a table, you always have that option (IMHO).
BUT...Having the judge decide who is or isn't allowed to play at a table... I personally think (again IMHO) this is a bad idea.
I'd say lets let the players police this now the same way we always have. If the guy is a jerk, we don't play with him. Each time we sit at a table, we look around and see... is there anyone here I'd rather not play with?
I do not want the judge to take that ability away from me as a player. Perhaps I like playing with Jo and her over-the-top bardic knowledge machine... and perhaps I don't. I sure as heck don't want to judge to make that decision for me by saying "you, Jo, play something else... or leave my table."
if you really want to just not see them...
just put them on your list and you never see them again (unless you are on a different computer or something like that)
Eric Brittain wrote:
yeah, and (IMHO) we can all be that problem player sometimes. we all have a little problem player inside, trying to get out.
repost on this:
PCs don't kill players fun....Players kill (other) players fun.
if you have someone who is a jerk and give him an Iconic, he is still a jerk. He can still ruin everyone's day. (and sometimes we can all be a jerk). If everyone at the table were to pass their PCs one player to the left... you would still get jerk players being a jerk. He'd just be doing it with someone else's PC. And most likely complaining about it. And the food/weather/noise/etc.
Let's all try to NOT be that jerk player. Does this mean we should quit building (yeah, I'm using the hot button term) Min/Maxed PC's? nope. Give a Min/Max PC to a great player that is fun to play with an' you know what? everyone has a fun time. Give a Sub-Par PC to a Jerk, and he'll find a way to reduce the fun at the table... it's part of being a jerk. (and I repeat, we all have a little of that jerk in us, really).
Let's all play nice. Have fun. Be someone everyone at your table enjoys playing a game with.
Whenever I read a thread like this, it kind of troubles me.
Starting rant - please excuse the following...
I know that deep down we all know this, but perhaps sometimes we forget it. People, this game is not all about the combat. It's not just a dungeon crawl - where you go from room to room fighting monsters. (though some Judges & Authors present it that way.) It's also about the Rogue who insures we don't fall in that pit, about the fighter who just happens to also be a carpenter - because he likes to build things, not just brake them. It's about my matchmaker dwarf trying to fix up the barbarian PC with "this little lady down in the Puddles district, you should meet her!" It's about a bunch of people sitting around a table having fun.
One of the worst things I ever heard at a table (because it's often true) is when an "old hand" explained to a "young kid" that he should put his skill points into combat skills - cause the Judge is going to give you the other information anyway. "if you need to find the bandit camp, just wonder around in the woods - the Judge wants to play too, and the only way we get a fight is when we find the bad guys". And to him this game was all about the fight. You know, the kind of guy who is "only there for the fights", and spends the rest of the game in his phone APPs.
I can recall something I heard at a table a long time ago. A Max Damage player was complaining that in his last scenario they had spent almost 30 minutes "chatting up the bar-maid" and had cut into "his fight time". At that time, I resisted pointing out that he had just taken 30 minutes "dancing with the mooks" and had cut into my bar-maid chatting time. It wouldn't have done any good you see, 'cause to him, this game is all about rolling dice and splatting monsters. The challenge's he sees are all combat related. That's where he get's his fun. To him that's all there is...
Sure, you can have a character who dominates combat. I like playing with those kind of PCs at my table! If you kill the beasties in 0.666 melee rounds, it'll give me more bar-maid time. And I'll try my darnedest to ensure we find those fights for you! I'll run the investigator that does the Gather Info rolls, that removes the traps that warns the BBEG, that ensures we get the right guy and get paid for it. But then I would have as much fun if the Judge just said after Init is rolled "Everyone just mark off 20% of you HP and 10% of you consumables and we'll hand-wave this encounter". After all, some Judges do that to the RP encounters (even having the term "RP encounter" vs. "Combat encounter" makes my mind hurt - like they are two different things).
sorry about that, it's just that sometimes I think this is too much of a combat simulation ...
Ending Rant - thank you for your time...
Clearly we have a difference of opinion on this.
But no need to derail this thread.
Ha, what about the gamer in the same shirt on day three, and it's NOT a re-roll shirt. They have a portfolio for that...
Just another the that makes you say Ewwww!
I'm still holding out for a "Shower re-roll" -
I've been tempted to tell players at my table on the 3rd and 4th day of a Con that I'll let them take a re-roll if they have had a shower (and put on clean clothing!) in the last 12 hours.
I'm sure someone will object that it's against the rules... but hay! it's a good idea. Oh! and maybe brushed their teeth or had a breath mint too.
There's a big "stargate" right there in El that links straight to Golarion, so the physical part of travel wouldn't be that rough. But, yeah, the political aspects would have to be thought through a tad. Not hard to do though. You're concept of an exchange program actually sounds very workable.
why do I keep getting flashes of Coneheads and "We're from Taldor!"
"Slaves were considered property under Roman law and had no legal personhood. Unlike Roman citizens, they could be subjected to corporal punishment, sexual exploitation (prostitutes were often slaves), torture, and summary execution. The testimony of a slave could not be accepted in a court of law unless the slave was tortured—a practice based on the belief that slaves in a position to be privy to their masters' affairs would be too virtuously loyal to reveal damaging evidence unless coerced. Over time, however, slaves gained increased legal protection, including the right to file complaints against their masters. "
Roman law - experienced with slaves - considered the default slave to be loyal.
People get upset if you challenge their beliefs, and sometimes do strange things. Like locking people up "to keep them free".
Nah, only bad faction members. You always know who they're working for.
Kind of like the Janissaries, 400 years working for the establishment.
Ah, I think I understand now...
"Wuher: Hey! We don't serve their kind here.
"Luke Skywalker: What?
"Wuher: Your droids. They'll have to wait outside. We don't want them here.
"C3PO: Come on R2, we'll wait outside"
So I guess I'm not a "Real Pathfinder"... but then I never claimed to be. Just a Slave.
My master may be... but then I don't speak for him. You'll need to ask him I guess.
The same thing could be said of any Cleric "... primary loyalty first and foremost, beyond nationality, race, or creed, is to ..." his/her god. Or Paladins. Or Hellknights. Or... heck, any other class. In fact, this statement "...you play a character whose primary loyalty first and foremost, beyond nationality, race, or creed, is to the Pathfinder society." is just not true.
We play persons who are Pathfinders. We are working for the Pathfinder Society. We have other obligations - in fact, it can be said that I have fewer obligations as a slave, and thus less distractions from my role in the Society. Or viewed in another way - I am as much a member of the Society as the Paladins Mount, or the Summoner's Eidolon, or the Druid's Animal Companion.
But, I guess if working with a Slave offends you, I will try to stay out of your sight (I have a very high stealth after all, and am very hard to see), and will endeavor not to be noticed by my betters. I do know my place sir. (There is a bit of anti-slave feelings in some freemen, I realize this)
Brian Lefebvre wrote:
heck, that may explain a lot of things...
"What do you mean they haven't left yet? Wake them up! I don't care if it IS THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT! They were there - in an hour - so we have to get them on their way so they can be there - like they were!"
If you can't worship aroden they need to take a few things off of the additional resources lists so they don't become a trap option, devotee of a dead god being one of them.
???BNW - I think this landed in the wrong thread...
Dave Setty wrote:
And you reactions to my in character posts drove me off the board. And almost caused me to put you into my Ignore filter
Liz Courts wrote:
Thank you Liz.I have given up posting on this thread though..
Dave Setty wrote:
LOL! ok, as a thought exercise then.
My current Master is very happy with my services, and considers me a very valuable item. And had turned down several offers for me (some from well meaning members of the Society who mistakenly felt I was unhappy with my place in life). And as he, and his family is very much involved in the Society, and takes his obligations very seriously, I find this unlikely to happen. And so it would take a lot for him to have business dealings with the Aspis Consortium, let alone sell me off to them... but leaving all that aside. Say he is dominated and compelled to sell me. This could happen I guess...
Well, I would likely (try to!) become an agent working for the Aspis Consortium. Much like a (freeman) Eagle Knight who found that the Society was (gasp!) keeping slaves... and decided, on his own, to undermine the Society.
But, seeing as the sale of such a valuable property (me) would require paperwork to be filed (taxes you know), there would be a public record of the shift in my allegiance. Forms filled out, ownership established. You see, my Master (who ever that might be) is a matter of public record, and has to be. As my owner is responsible for my actions (as all slave holders are). If I cause trouble, damage things, or even kill someone ("murder hobo" after all), my owner is responsible. Just like if his horse or his children damage things. My loyalty (unlike that Eagle Knight above) is a matter of public record.
OH! and it would require more than just a sending spell to inform me of this change. Again, paperwork you know. Got to provide me with the proper ownership paperwork you know.
Kind of like a persons citizenship paperwork. Got to be able to show who owns you...
Bill Dunn wrote:
I was not saying there is NO chance for treachery - there always is.
I was saying that there is not MORE chance for treachery from slaves than from freemen.
Dave Setty wrote:
most likely the same thing you would do if in the middle of a mission you get a sending from your Faction Leader/Venture Captain/King/Mayor/Athority Figure that said "Due to changes in the political situation we are changing our approach. After your mission, meet me at [this here address] in Absalom. Do not inform the other Pathfinders. Oh! and bring this valuable thing you are likely to find on your current missing - without anyone else finding out you recovered it."
Bill Dunn wrote:
check out the history of the Janissaries in the Ottoman Empire sometime.
or the Egyptian mamluks...
Not true. The Abolitionist movement in Britain is just one example...
Dave Setty wrote:
?? what ??You don't trust me, because I'm a slave? what?
There is no more chance of my "switching sides" by being sold in the middle of a mission than one of my companions. Less in fact.
edit: from the Wikipedia article I quoted above, "... the belief that slaves in a position to be privy to their masters' affairs would be too virtuously loyal to reveal damaging evidence unless coerced...."
Dave Setty wrote:
Hi!I'm a Pathfinder and a slave. OH! and a human (Ulfen). and a woman. and a Rogue (Knife Master) 7/Fighter 1