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This should be on the rules forum.
I keep getting the image of someone communicating with intelligent creatures summoned by someone else...
PC #1 to newly summoned earth elemental: "so, Rocky, we meet again?!"
Yeah, I can totally see this encounter.
Or one where the Andoran PC keeps asking the summoned monsters if the are "compelled" to attack... and then swings harder to kill "the evil slaver spell-caster"!
Heck, by this logic I could just tie two (or more) maces together to increase damage output. Or heck, why stop at 2? The new terror weapon becomes 6 clubs roped together.
I (as a player) do not want to have my PCs face this sort of thing from authors. Goblin ties 47 flasks of acid together and drops them on a group of PCs in a 15'x15' room. 47d6 on the center guy and 47hp splash on the others... Really?
Shush... Time for me to go back to bed.
You know, even more than "gamer funk", I've encountered "Smokers Aura" as a problem.
Bugs me a bunch. Someone who seems to have smoke linger around them at a 5' or possibly 10' "aura".
I'm normally to bashful to mention it though. If I'm stuck at a table with one of these guys (almost always male), I just tend to sit as far from them as possible. And avoid them the next game.
I have been trying to ignore the urge to post on this thread - but I finally missed my Will save and so I am sure I am going to regret this...
let's add in another twist to this...
DM says, "the magic item your PC just put on is cursed, but it's a minor curse."
In the example above the Player thought the curse was Cool. Just think about it! Your character has glowing red eyes and dogs and small children of all races cower in fear of you!
The DM thought it was ... well, a curse.
Sometimes curses are all in the eyes of the viewer...
Two schools of RPGs:
For years I have noticed two general kinds of Players (and we are players on both sides of the DM Screen) – which I refer to as falling into the “Two Schools of RPG Gaming.”
School 1: RPG’s are games that pit the skill and wit of the player against DM (and her skill and wit).
School 2: RPG’s are games in which the players (the DM being one) have adventures together.
For myself, I’m in School 2, which is why I often show my "gimmicks" to the other players (even the guy running the game). I mean I may never use them in the game, but if I share them we can all enjoy them – or looked at it another way I “use” them each time I show them to someone. I like to think I’m playing the game WITH the other players when I do this, not AGAINST them. And the guy/girl running the game is (to me) just another player so why wouldn't I show them the cool thing too?
But there are lots of players (again, both sides of that DM screen) who are in School 1. When we (School 2 players) show them a cute trick they are driven to try to counter it, perhaps spending hours or days coming up with reasons why it wont work (often keeping these secret so they can spring them in a "gotcha!" moment) – sometime saying it will not work for this or that reason, or even “not in my game!”. Sometimes these can be real stretches of reality or game mechanics. But you see, they are playing against the other players and a gimmick is something they have to counter to "win". They assume everyone is trying to "take advantage" of them.
Personally, I try to avoid the School 1 types – both Judges and players (I think there are lots more players then judges in school #1. IMO School 1 types don’t often make good Judges.) Mostly I do this because I seem to have less fun in games with them. And they often have less fun playing in a game with me (I don't seem to "fight against" them - it's no challenge to "beat" me in the game).
This is not to say that a School 2 Judge (or player for that matter!) will let something slide – good ones don’t. But if we are “talking shop” they will often say – “that might not work because of X” and some might even add “but if you did Y also…”. (School 1 types would say) We can then sit down and ensure to "balance" it to make it "fair" to "both sides".
School 1 - Confrontational - "It's US vs. THEM" or "It's YOU vs. ME".
School 2 - Conspiratorial - "We're playing this game TOGETHER".
School 1 - "We need to limit this, otherwise 'they' are going to 'take advantage' and 'game the system'."
the conflict here comes from the "two schools of RPGs"
I had a judge for a game I was going to play send out the following in an email... and I found it very "Awesome!", so I thought I'd share it with my friends here (and the rest of you too!).
(in the email sent to all the players before the game):
Then you leave the venture captains office...
Chess Pwn wrote:
a thousand times this.
It's not the PC that is the problem. It's the player.
And it normally isn't a player that is unfamiliar with PFS. If it was just ignorance (the player doesn't realize what the Society is about), we can fix that OOC by just telling the player. Right there when he starts down that path. "Hay guy - we need to be able to talk to this guy to do the mission. You aren't going to 'win' by killing the target!"
No, the biggest offenders (in my experience) is the guy who plays "anti-social" knowing full well what he is doing. Who builds a PC intending to be as disruptive as possible.
The guy who, while running an Investigator, with the party facing a 300 ft climb, checks to be sure that everyone has only 50' of rope and then casts monkey fish to do the climb - taking his rope with him. That way the party has only 250 feet of rope. Yea. Been there, done that. NOT going to play with that guy again.
So, how do we fix this?
To quote the OP: "... That is not what PFS is about. If you want to play that way, fine, go find other like-minded individuals and make that group. When you sit down at a PFS table, you have agreed to play by their guidelines. They are fairly open and unrestricted, but when you openly disregard the rules, it isn't fun for anyone..."
How do we fix this problem? How do I fix it when I encounter it? I note who is doing this. (put them on "the list") I tell my friends (other gamers). We avoid this guy. Maybe for weeks, maybe for years, maybe forever.
"Playground rules." We don't play with people we don't like, who don't "play right". People who aren't fun to be with. Burn me in a game, and I'll think twice about playing with you again. Burn my friends and they have the same issue. Do it enough and no one will sit with you. It's not nice, it's not pretty, - it's just the way people are.
Maybe, in time, the problem player fixes their issues. Maybe someone comes back and says "Hay, I'm not sure what your problem is with Jo, I sat with them and they were ok..." - "Really? maybe I'll try sitting with them again...". Same way we did it in grade school.
Ok, heck, you got me on this thread.
I got the popcorn out, pulled up a chair to ringside and got ready to watch the fights... And not one mention of anything flame worthy.
No mentions of;
There were/are advantages to being Shadowlodge. At least we know our VC has had a bath!
I have been lobbying for a "Shower re-roll" for years now - but mostly for that rare player mentioned above...
I'm tempted to tell players at my table on the 3rd and 4th day of a Con that I'll let them take a re-roll if they have had a shower (and put on clean clothing!) in the last 6 hours.
I'm sure someone will object that it's against the rules... but hay! it's a good idea. Oh! and maybe had a breath mint too.
I have gamed with someone that had an adverse reaction to my aftershave (eyes running, sneezing, etc.) - when they mentioned it I switched brands (and went without the second day of that CON). Heck, they were a lot of fun to game with, I wouldn't want something easily changeable to get in the way of gaming with them.
hay, I'm a Cleric of Nivi Rombadazzel specializing in Channels - so that's sort of a CHA based caster right?
no wait, I'm a Gnome so never mind.
Buba is a Dwarven (though he claims to be a Gnome) Cleric. Green hair (dyed), disguised (Skill +15?, -12 for size and race difference) as a Gnome.
heck, whenever I agree with them I rush off to be scanned for enchantment magic...
when I first started looking at playing a gunslinger my first choice was going to be dwarf...
I just got the following image in my head for starting each game...
"A dwarven adventurer walks into town, up the dusty street, an exotic saddle over his sholder and pistol at his belt. He glances over to where the other adventurers are gathered... "Well son, wha'da'ya do when they shot chur mount outta underneith ya? Ifin it's a Dire Bat, yah learn the true value of this here 'Ring of Feather Fall'. Yep, that or try to learn to fly REAL FAST."
(then the best part) - Going from adventure to adventure - never admitting that he's afraid of heights and has never owned a Dire Bat, much less flown on one.
In one game, we ran a bluff that we were an Aspis Team posing as a Pathfinder team - which explained why we had a few Wayfinders with us, and no Aspis badges.
"It would blow our cover to be carrying our Badges - so we left them back at Base.
The funniest part was one of the players kept getting mixed up and saying she was a Pathfinder and the NPCs would just say something like "Yeah, I got that"...
Yeah - we were Pathfinders, claiming to be Aspis agents posing as Pathfinders...see we have a couple Wayfinders...
Alexander Augunas wrote:
Wow...I have a stunningly different opinion on these five things I get for judging.
My #1 is #1. Far and away more than the others. This is very different from the the experience I get playing. And you seem to count it as "not a reward ".
My #2 is #5,the other one you discount a as not even a reward. Heck, it's why I'm a coordinator, why I help run events.
YMMV I guess...
#2, 3 & 4 are just icing on the cake. If they took those away I'd still be out there running and organizing games.
I'm watching this thread, and not sure if I have anything to add one way or another...
Want to "reward" me when I'm running the game?
Those are the best rewards I can get for running the game. Anything else is bonus...
...several Pathfinders in the Shadows nod in soundless agreement...
Gary Bush wrote:
I think the question on this is the "has to be signed off" part.
The Fox wrote:
LOL! Fox, they don't need to read it. Just OWN it. 'course it might be a book they borrowed from a friend...
(edit: I have found that many of them are good reads - and give a lot of background for when you are playing your PCs in an area.)
I have actually been using the Faction Journal cards for each of my PCs. Back when they were introduced I even used them to settle on which faction several of my PCs should join/switch too, and for 2 of my PCs I went looking for another PC that could sponsor them to change factions.
funny story about faction recruiting:
I have a PC that I introduce as "a dog delivery system" - meaning my PC is mostly a support character for his mount/animal companion/riding dog. When I (in character) said I was no longer happy with my faction and was looking for other options I had two different PCs try to recruit me into their faction. It was sort of a sub-plot for that entire game. One of the PCs even cast speak to animals so that he could try to recruit the "primary part of the team - the dog".
Now, when I am creating a new PC, I will pull out the Faction Journal cards and "fit" the PC to his faction (personality/background/skills). It really helps to have the PCs goals match up better with his faction goals.
On a more general note, something should not use the same name as something else. Its confusing as all heck.
are you on the level with this?
"What brings you to a convention?"
for me, I would have to say often it's my wife. Unless I drive - but normally I am catching a nap and I just let her do the driving...
Pathfinder doesn't really have 'fumble' for simple actions (e.g. walk and hold keys). Sure, it can happen... but the odds are so low (way below the 5% limit set by using d20 for most actions) that the game just ignores it. The 'Take 10' limitation was presumably intended to simulate the fact that it becomes more difficult to complete routine tasks when you are in danger/under stress.
This ruling also allows the judge to assume the player is T10 in moments when it works better "for drama".
So, if the PC falls in a 10' pit and needs an '11' to climb out... He fails.
Judge: "you're stuck in the pit and can't climb out..."
Yeah - feel the Drama!
I like the Ratfolk idea. Play the two scenarios "Return to Round Mountain" and "Escape from Round Mountain" and you get to run one of the Ratfolk Refugees...
heck, I could see something like this...
Picture a set of 2 or 3 scenarios set in the World Wound. The Society encounters a tribe/band/village of Tieflings - say only one or two bloodlines. Maybe Demon-Spawn (Pitborn). The Society "saves" the tribe and get's them out of the World Wound (chance for lots of "redeemer" PCs to get kudos with this). Players can then run one of the "Refugee PCs" - you get the boon to run a Pitborn Tiefling. And it would even make sense to have a number of the suddenly start popping up in PFS games... and they would have a ready made background, that even made sense in the campaign setting.
And yeah, we'd have more Tieflings in the game... (eye-roll - not that I don't have enough of them now...)
Also, we would need to define the Laws/Customs of slaves and slavery as they appear in the world setting.
Historically they have been very different...just compare a 17th century plantation worker in the new world with a 17th century Janissary - and that is just location!
What if the Qadirians (somewhat modeled after the Turks) actually have something like Janissaries?
Is it against the law in Qadira to enslave worshippers of Sarenrae?
Is the slave of a citizen freed in Cheliax a citizen?
Are Talden Serfs better treated than Slaves (often Serfs were treated worse than slaves)?
note on Janissaries:
The Janissaries were kapıkulları, "door servants" or "slaves of the Porte", neither freemen nor ordinary slaves (köle). They were subjected to strict discipline, but were paid salaries and pensions upon retirement and formed their own distinctive social class. As such, they became one of the ruling classes of the Ottoman Empire, rivaling the Turkish aristocracy. The brightest of the Janissaries were sent to the palace institution, Enderun. Through a system of meritocracy, the Janissaries held enormous power, stopping all efforts at reform of the military.
Often you can get some stronger member of the party you are adventuring with to carry some of your gear. Ah know Ah do!
It does lead to "interesting" mistakes when Ah need to get something mah from packs pockets, and get confused about which "pockets" Ah'm reaching mah hands into! Purely by accident Ah assure ya'll!
"...now where did Ah put that wand? Opps! sorry about that! didn't realize it was so 'fully charged'!"
Mighty Glacier wrote:
this entire thread was worth this one line....
"...is there a penalty for fighting without underpants?"
...and this is why in some districts of Cheliax it is against the law for freemen to do many forms of manual labor (cutting into the livelihood of slaves and slave owners).
Moving large stone blocks? Got to call the Stone Masons Guild.
Foreman: "Six 1,000 lb. blocks? Transported more than 30'? Got to have a team of 5 slaves, plus an indentured servant taskmaster. Guild rules you know plus standard equipment charges, plus overtime fees, union dues, body oil, insurance, extra stone dust, torches for night work - just incase we run long, transport duties, project license, district duties, standard bribes, extra for a rush job, additional duties, exception fees, equipment damage coverage - ware and tear on the whip if nothing else, donation for the retirement fund, ... altogether looks like 60 gp and we'll be able to fit you in next month on the 12th."
and now that it's a Guild job, there'll be a slip down to watch and make sure you don't try to get non-guild workers in to do it on the hush-hush. That's the LAW. Have a nice day.
ewan cummins wrote:
Adventurer's Armory, pg. 21
Slave - 75 gp
(edit: remember, there are likely a lot of specialized laws (written and unwritten) and rules concerning ownership and use of slaves and slave labor that are not addressed in existing rules... and this entire subject is very much subject to table variation. Added to this, what is "legal" in one place may be prohibited in another... YMMV.)
nah, people arguing about apple pie, and if you could cut a pie into 6 pieces or 7, that would remind me of the Take 10 threads... (esp. when it is common sense to see it's 3.14159 pieces...).
Clearly you have a different definition of "power gamer" than most of the rest of us currently posting.
If you start your definition with "cheats"... Then clearly you have left my definition behind. I consider a power gamer to be VERY careful to always be inside the rules, otherwise they have left the game out of their play....
Sure - but that means when people say things like "I was at a table full of Aasimar last game" I wonder if there were 3+ of the same bloodline of Aasimar... say 3 Azata blooded.
It would be like saying "I was at a table last week with 3+ humanoids (an Elf, a Dwarf and a Gnome)..." One a Wizard, one a Cleric and the other a Bard.
There are different breeds of Aasimar that would be good as all three of those - just as there are different breeds of humanoid...
Hrothdane - your story caused me to remember something I often do during introductions at the table...
During introductions at the start of a game, I will, in a faux French accent, ask each other PC (often starting with any young ladies at the table) "Are you currently involved in a long term relationship?" I normally get stammers and blushes. my PC goes on to say "I am a Matchmaker by profession you see, it is my 'day job' (finger quotes) - so if you might be interested in such a relationship, perhaps we might discuss some of my other clients? My card - " and I hand out a business card. At this point I switch to my OOC voice and say ... "Role Play often suffers due to time constraints, and we only have a limited time for this tonight so..." Back in character voice "Sigh... It appears that we have got to save the world again now, perhaps after that we'll find your one true love, yes?"
Necroing a thread I liked...
every now and again we should have a thread like this pop up on the board.
Share a story or two... something that made you laugh...
Last Con I was at, last day of the CON, the party was ambushed in an ally by a band of thugs. The Rogue in the party wins Init. and (played by a very shy young lady) wants to use Intimidate to bypass the combat encounter. So she pulls her dagger and says something like..."Ah, go away or, ah, I'll stick you." and says it real softly. And get's something like a 32 in the Intimidate (at sub-tier 4-5).
I was running a Diplomacy/Bluff focused Bard and was going next in Init, but heck - I'm not going to steal her moment so I just add "She'll turn you into a newt." Pointing at the snake AC in the party, "There's the last guy who got in her way..." using Bluff to support her threat.
We did have to wait thru the Initiative order for all of them to melt away...