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wait - what if I have a PC that plays as a tiefling or aasimar, gains one XP - and then I want to train him into something else? Say a Nagagi. Can I use the 1st level re-write rules to do that? or is the PC "locked" into being a tiefling or aasimar?
or if he was a Tiefling can I change him into an Aasimar before I play him at Level 2?
Or if he was one kind of Aasimar (say Anglekin) can I change him into another (say Musetouched) before I play him at Level 2?
Sammy T wrote:
well, let's look at the possiblities...
25% "act normally" (this is Garble - please define normal)
I need to put in a disclaimer here and say I have not (yet) played any games with Garble - and have formed my opinion from hear-say...
But do note that it says "bonus", not "modifier". Not the same thing. If you had a Dexterity penalty (from a Dex of less than 10), that would still apply.
which just makes me wonder -
If he WANTS to get hit, how come the klutzy guy with the DEX of 4 is better than the (DEX 10) average guy at doing it? and way better than the dancer with a DEX of 18...
The Pathfinder Tales chronicles...
My favorite one has saved the life of two of my PCs...
Desperate Bargain: Presented with a choice between damnation and domination, you chose the latter and might choose it again. As an immediate action when you are reduced to fewer than 0 hit points, you gain a number of temporary hit points equal to 2d10 + your character level that last for 3 rounds. During these 3 rounds, you are confused as per the confusion spell. Each round, you may attempt a DC 18 Will save to remove the condition. At the end of 3 rounds or when you successfully save against the confusion effect, all remaining temporary hit points are lost and you resume dying if your hit point total remains below 0. Once you have used this boon, cross it off the Chronicle sheet.
You get to assign these chronicles to your PCs if you own the Pathfinder Tales novel...
linking for other comments about StingChucks.
James Jacobs about using StingChucks - I esp. like the comment "Also, keeping your stingchucks fed and taking care of them is important, and if you ignore that, your GM has the right to have your stingchucks escape and get in your hair or pants or whatever."
I like the cheap things.
Like sunrods. It's always amazing how many people don't have a sunrod. Lasts for 6 hours. AOE is 30' (bigger than the 20' for light or for a torch). and it only costs 2 gp. Area is larger than a light spelll/torch/everburning torch/Ioun Torch etc.
but the best is the Whetstone (AA Pg9), gives a +1 damage for a normal weapons for the first time it hits after you sharpen it. Cost? 2 cp. Yeap, 2 COPPER PIECES! What 1st level PC (or 2nd for that matter) Can't afford this? And the RP of sitting around, sharpening a blade while the "Face" PC is doing an Intimidate roll...
I have nothing useful to add to this discussion - but I feel compelled to say.... "Bravo Bruno! I stand in honor of your skill as Gym Teacher at the Academe! Bravo Sir!" ... skill mastery should be recognized
Ok, here's a different spin on this (at least it looks different to me)...
Let's say on the 15th I sit down at a table and pull out my 3rd level PC, glance around and introduce myself as a Nagaji (spelling?) Warpriest... being built with Judge credits all from last few years. Without a race boon.
Would this PC be legal?
At the time the chronicles were assigned, the PC could not have been a Nagaji - and maybe not even a Warpriest for part of those chronicles.
"For common monsters, such as goblins, the DC of this check equals 5 + the monster's CR."
so for common monsters with a CR of 5 or less... anyone can try the Knowledge check - even if they don't have a rank in it.
I mention this as I have seen a table of experienced players, who know as players that you need to hit skeletons with blunt weapons NOT USING blunt weapons because no one at the table had Knowledge Religion - so... a bunch of players felt constrained to try to prevent "meta-gaming"... They knew that the monsters weren't taking full damage, but restricted their PCs, because they knew what to do (as players)- they didn't do it (as PCs). The player "meta" knowledge constrained thier PCs ... If the monster had been something called a "Green Wiglet" and they had noticed it wasn't takeing full damage they would have switched to different/back up weapons to try to find the DR type. It would have been a "puzzle" they would have enjoyed solving! (I can almost hear the table talk now..."Not Silver Blunt! switching to a Magic Slashing! You got that oil applied yet? Think it might be DR/Good then?")
Heck, these were not under-equiped PCs! They all had blunt weapons! they just were afread to appear to be Meta-gaming.... One of the players had a Dwarf that often switched off from Warhammer to Battle Ax, but he was careful to use the Ax so no one would think he was "meta-gaming".
I think the problem is more when he can't tell it from a chicken.
In my defense - I'm a dwarf and I haven't really been exposed to such exotic animals in my underground background. I did not grow up on a farm which has such things.
Undead chicken - that I can recognize most of the time (Knowledge Religion +2)... but I've got training for that...
The Fox wrote:
oh, I don't know, I could see it as a failed Kn(local) check... after all, if it HAD been something hold person worked on it would have been Kn(local)... ;)
(edit: yeah, I can totally see it going something like this...
Linking in another (older thread) on the same thing...
notice that the second post on that thread is Doug Miles linking to another even older thread on the same subject
and from one of my posts on that thread...
On Knowledge and table variations:
Knowledge checks = table variation
there is so much variation here I don't even know how to answer. And I have no idea how to fix this. (so the following is mostly just venting - skip it if you like).
I normally say: "I've got an XX, what's the most improtant thing for me to know?"
Many judges figure I am trying to pull something... when all I am doing is trying to NOT make this a game of Player Vs. Judge where the judge makes me create questions depending on what I as a player know about the monster, while he tries to conceal anything I might get wrong... in other words a Meta-Game Game. Tell me what my PC knows, so I know how to run him for you...
I personally know a lot of important "bits" about Flesh Golems. I can recognize them from their discription.... but my wife can't. She has no idea. "Frankenstiens Monster" doesn't mean much to her (she grew up in a different culture - different myths). So, her "3 questions" are going to be very different from mine. Then add in the judges who give "limited response" answers and we see how useless it is to put points into knowledge skills at some tables.
"What defenses does the monster have?" - "you can't ask that!" - "Does the creature have DR?" - "Yes. That's one question."
Mark Stratton wrote:
The "the flexible and undefined system" reduces a part of a players PC to Table Variation. Dependant on the whim of the judge...
Get a good judge and it can be a fun entertaining event (see some of the posts above) - even if it doesn't inform you of the "important bits" of knowledge.
Get a poor judge and it can contribute to a poor gaming experience (see different posts above) - even if it does inform you of the "important bits" of knowledge.
This is just another bit of YMMV - something that we'll need to work out at each table we sit down to play at. Gameing with strangers today? guess you need to learn the "table rules" on knowledge checks...
here you go... this might help for what to buy.Painlords list of what to buy
as to the points - you only get two, and I would suggest putting one in Diplomacy...
Tim deBow wrote:
sounds like someone is moving from Andoran to ... ah... Dark Archive... wait, they aren't the Law faction any more... who the heck is for the Law now? Sczarni?
Walter Sheppard wrote:
"the GM/organizer/VO needs to step in and say something to whoever is making these comments."
Bah!, the other players need to step in and say something tactful, like "stop being rude dude."
Some judges just never have "the enemy" even take that first swing. Even when you have a Hat of Disguise and look like an unarmored rogue.You get swung on once in the first fight, then the enemy just moves past you in the rest of the scenario...
I play with a lot of beginners - esp. lately.
Two of these are a Mother/Daughter pair that almost always play at the same table. At first they always did.
Their first PCs were a Cleric (mom) and a Summoner (daughter). The Summoner didn't have a CLW wand, or in fact, any means of healing. After all, it was covered by the Mom's Cleric (whose first 2 PP went to a wand). Everyone they play with knows this, no one has a problem with it. Because the Summoner has provided for a source of healing. When the pair finally split up to play at different tables, the mom said something like... "you need to pick up a healing wand, so you're not sponging off everyone else... it's kind of like the way we bring snacks to the game to share".
If a mom can teach this to her kid, why can't we teach it to adults?
What do we say to the guy who hits 3rd level and still expects to sponge off the girls mom? after all - she's running a HEALER and it's her JOB.
(edit: and they always bring gram crackers! one of my favorite treats! so, you know, I always try a little harder to bring something to share when I know they are coming to the game... I hate to be a mooch...it's the way my mom raised me)
I was judging beginners tables at ComicCON in my home town. I was expecting to have as much as 100% new players and prepared for that... but prepped several scenarios just in case we got someone who had played before.
and I had a one player who had played before! great! Now I didn't have to worry about healing at a table of all Iconic PCs, right?...
No such luck. The "old hand" was running a character with 2 XP, and 4 Fame... a Front Line, Fighter with an 18 STR, and a Great Sword...
He had spent 2PP on something... I remember now, it was masterwork halfplate armor.
I mentioned that he might want to get something in the way of healing... just in case. After all, he was likely to be the only PC at the table with anything besides the 150 gp. starting money. "Nah, one of them will just have to run a Cleric to keep me healed up." So he spent his gold on a Long Composite Bow, (STR 18 bow, and he had a DEX of 10), and saved his other two PP...
As each new player arrived and I passed out my folder with all the Iconic's printed up (and new PFS numbers), he would say... "We need one of you to play a Cleric to keep me in the game"... and I would say, "Play what you want... I notice you are reading the gunslinger write-up..." He did get one of the players to run Kyra, then complained when she channeled to damage the ghouls... she was "wasting" her heals...
This is the mindset I see when someone says... "I'm the front line fighter, you guys have to keep me healed up. Your the Healer - it's your job to keep me up!" It might not be the actual one that people on the other side of this issue are saying... but it feels that way.
"One of you will have to run a Cleric to keep me healed up... 'cause I need my money for armor and weapons." & "You need to spend your resources to keep me in the game. "
If that is not what you are saying... then we don't have a disagreement. If it is, then ... I guess we do.
Before we go into a "Dungeon Crawl" I hand each of my companions several items....an anti-toxin, an anti-plague, and a sooth syrup is among them. I will tell them to drink them now, and in an hour I'll give them another... several times the +5 bonus on a save makes a big difference. Some people will state they have one of these they bought themselves - and I'll point out that I make the ones they get from me... so we can save a lot of gold to just use mine.
I often hand out extracts (like potions, only better!) too. Many people are surprised when I hand the front line tank a shield or fly and say something like "if you use it, ask and I might have another." I hate spending a round I can be throwing bombs buffing someone else - so I just let them buff themselves with my extracts!
Check out this thread
the sections for you would be
After your characters first mod, he/she should have a Potion of Cure Light Wounds and have the foresight to mention to their traveling companions wherein it might be found on their body. The person ultimately responsible for healing your character is you. (When the character has 2 PA, you should consider getting a Wand of CLW.) Every character should be able to easily stabilize another party member. (Using curing or Heal skill checks or something).
Your character should have a way to deal damage at range: a ranged weapon, scrolls, wand or whatever.
Your character should have a way to deal with swarms. Of course, alchemist flasks are the easiest, but you may want something else. You know and I know that PFS mods are swarming with swarms...find a solution that fits your character.
Your character should have a way to create fire and light. Something like, a few tindertwigs and a sunrod or light spell.
Your character should have a vial of antitoxin.
Your character should have a smokestick/fog effect.
A melee characters should have a back up weapon and spellcasters have a backup spell component pouch/holy symbol in case something happens to the primary.
After 2 chronicles, every character should contribute to group healing...even if it's just handing off a Wand of CLW. Responsibility for your characters healing does *NOT* reside with any player other than yourself. Your character should be able to help in the healing...if the party happens to have a character who actively assumes this role, that’s good, but don’t expect it. Never expect that it is someone else's job to keep your character in the game.
(reply posted under my Chel-Paladin PC)
Good people live in Cheliax too right? In fact, it is often said that the lower ranks of Hellknights often have Paladins in them. So, when I went to build a Halfling Paladin, I picked a "country boy from Arkansas" type of build - and figured that made him Cheliax. What other country has at it's base the fighting of Chaos (and demons)? True, the high nobles often go a bit overboard... but...
I am no one official - but I use these chronicles alot. This is what I understand about them...
...the way the CRs for PFTales books work changed at the end...
I have a lot of PCs.... I have all the Tales books. I put the CRs on many of my PCs, but I only have one copy of Vol. 4: which floats from PC to PC until I decide on the Perm boon it gives (which I haven't yet).
Basicly, use the instructions in the Chronicle for each Chronicle - you'll see them on the first page of the download. The instructions for Vol. 4 is different from the rest.
I have a PC that regularly hands the following to the low CHA types at her table. She calls them a "Chaliaxian agreement:"
During the course of our upcoming mission, if at any time
you find yourself in need of my special talents used in a discrete
fashion, you may feel free to request that I fulfill some task for
you. No questions asked. I am quite good with influencing
people, and I do have many other skills that would be at your
disposal. And I am always discrete.
In return, I would like to think I could call on you at some
I would assure you that I would never ask you to do
Signed: Katisha Lee
Though she calls them a Cheliaxian Agreement, until resently she was not that faction (she changed factions to Shadow Lodge in season 3, then back to Cheliax after Shadow Lodge went away). I've also started something like it with several of my other characters... but not as formal (her's is a double business card that I actually hand to the PCs & a copy to the Judge).
I consider it just my little way of RPing "Cooperation" with other Pathfinders.
The amazing thing to me, is that I have had several players reject the offer out of hand, because she is Cheliaxian - and they figured she was that faction (a lot of other players reject the offer for RP reasons - or because they fear "a deal with the devil" is involved, but several have rejected it because of her "race"). Kind of like rejecting an offer of cooperation from someone Chinese, because you didn't like the policies of the People's Republic of China... (only they are from California). I've even had one player actively working to foil my faction mission (back when we still had them)... But then I think he was Silver Crusade, so that was ok?
The actions of PCs are more under the control of the Players than of the factions.
PFS story....I cast Unnatural Lust on a Mook in the fight - sending him after the Druids Big Cat companion... He scrambles over it and hugs said kitty, and so I then slumber hexed him...
so, this means that later, when he wakes up, he remembers having unnaturally lustful thoughts (and actions), before he blacked out. Only to come to some time later (and we searched him while he as asleep), with his clothing in dis-array, with a happy lion sitting next to him purring.
Yah... what happens in Almas, stays in Almas...
I get BoL as a 4th level Extract (Alchemist (Chirurgeon)/ 11th) - which I put in poisoners gloves and can hand off to other PCs (like the Barbarian in the party). It's something else to see the party barbarian charge across the battlefield and punch a Breath of Life into someone that just went down.
or I can punch a body with a BoL, and take my second attack to punch it again...."Clear!... AGAIN! CLEAR!"
makes a great RP event...
use Prestidigitation to color him pink. The party is in full swing when they arrive, so NO ONE will admit to seeing a pink elephant walk thru the room...
First paragraph you had me in your camp. Second you only half had me. I have found (the small percentage) jerk players in most factions - not just in two. In fact, the worst offenders I have encountered were Andoran faction... but I think they would have been like that no matter what faction they had been in.
Let's try this a different way.
I'm putting together a game, and looking at who to invite to play
So, the "team" of Pathfinders are orgainizing, each person trying out for one of those limited "first string" slots. After all, we only have so many seats at the table. Each PC will bring something to the table they were good at... and a lot of extra things too.
So, which Pathfinder are we going to accept in our team?
Bob La Feet - Barbarian "Glass Cannon" who prides himself in putting down the monsters in 3 rounds.... and relies on the rest of the team to heal him up?
Jo La Feet - Barbarian "Glass Cannon" who prides herself in putting down the monsters in 3 rounds.... and has a wand of CLW? (and 2 PP less).
Everything else the same...
Which one are we going to want on our team? Which one do I invite to play?
The guy who we have to "pay with healing" or the guy who "pays his own way"?
and I am not even going to point out that the guy with the wand seems to me to be more of a "team player" and less of a "in this for himself" kind of guy. And I like to play with fellow adventurers on my team, not with employees I have to pay to be there.
this is a great thing...
I have been reflecting on this thread (and several others on the same track) for a few days now... and I have a couple insites (I think)
If we are NOT expecting to take any damage - and have a few potions just in case something leaks around the edges, are people saying we should have a CLW wand to help heal up the Tank/meat shield (who after all is taking damage that was ment for the party)?
That's a different take on this. Sounds good to me though. I'll need to be sure and share my wand some with the Tank when I've the back rank caster (or the scout or whatever). As my contribution to the "group healing" fund and all. (I would expect him to have one too...)
I've run the front liner who draws fire to suck off the AOOs from the monster. Maxed out AC... and wearing a Hat of Disguise to make my PC look like the back rank wizard to draw fire. Lots of gimmicks. Or sucks off the attacks from the stupid monsters. Or holds the doorway and blocks the monster in the room... or provides cover for the wizard by standing between him and the enemy.
I can see passing over my wand to share some of the expense of patching up whoever the bad guys were shooting at. You know, to spread the expense out in the party. To be more of a team player.
As long as it is SHARED, and not carried by one or even most of the party. If I can't share the "HP Tax" this game? I'll be sure to pick up a little extra next time. We're a team right? And no one likes a Mooch for long. (unless there are other reasons. Like she's cute, or she brought Pizza/donuts/Thia food, something).
And that's what we're getting at right? Spreading the cost of the adventure out between all the PCs... in something like a "fair" split...
it wouldn't be as bad ... if they weren't both older gamer dudes, playing a hot Aasimari couple...
this thread is going nowhere we have not been before... except maybe to be locked.
One of my posts from over there...
"I play a type of cleric I call a Combat Medic. I play two of them, at different levels. They are fast (40' move normally - and "agile feet" means they ignores difficult squares), has a very High AC, and often has other gimmicks to be sure they aren't hit. They often use the spell Shield Other to keep other combat types up. But you know what? it really hurts to see someone say "hay, after the fight, you need to heal me up - but I'm not expecting to help with that." I mean, often my PC doesn't even OWN a CLW wand. You see, my guy has SR (Dwarven trait), and wands tend to fail when used on him. So any I buy would mean they can't heal my PC. So you are effectively saying. "I don't want to have to spend my resources keeping my PC in the game, I need one of you other guys to do that."
Not to long ago I played one of my PCs in a game where the main melee PC didn't really have all that good an AC. Something like 10 point below my Clerics. I used my spells to raise his AC - but he sort of expected that. My Shield of Faith spell, then charges from my Wand of Prod. Evil (normally used to protect against Poor Will Saves), and the Shield Other Spell. The fact that after the fights one of the other PCs had to chip in charges from their wand of CLW (the wizard said to use his, he hadn't needed it much) is the only reason he got to fight in the last half of the game sort of bothered me. Esp. when, after we got Chronicles he chimed in that he had to decide to either boost the magic on his sword or his Belt... but he didn't have the fame to boost his belt, so he was just going to save his money (again). Yeah... I think it was 16 charges off the Wizards wand, and 8 or 10 off other players. Gotta love that kind of "Team Player"..."
Let us step back and think about it.
PFS is always gathering ancient treasures and locking them away somewhere in a vault, so that they can be "studied"....
WOW... maybe one (or more) of the 10 is actually a Dragon! And it has hit on this cool idea! get the pesky human adventurers to gather treasures from around the globe to be added to the horde..errrr.. vault!
And we have been doing this for hundreds of years right?
In addition to the players success in bypassing misdirection, how does detect magic play into the players identifying Vaga. She is wearing the boots of levitation and the glamoured armor. If the PCs detect magic, won't they identify those items and thing it is weird that a little girl named Tilly is wearing those items? How have other GMs gone around this?
have to remember that it takes 3 rounds of concentration to get the actual items that are magical. Unless they were casting Detect Magic just to pick her out... and even then she might mess up the concentration "EEEEKKKK! you're throwing a curse on me! My mommy tol' me about men like you!" smack him with little girl fist.
Aardvark Barbarian wrote:
i might actually have a problem with the fact that almost half the lvl 1 commoners, and the same number of any level of untrained hero or other persons of any level (untrained) CAN'T do any of that....
and can't identify a metal (how about coins? is it gold or copper... sorry, that's KN:Dungeoneering DC10)
all of those are DC 10 - and anyone with less than a 10 INT, and no ranks in the required skill (slightly less than half the population) can't make that without rolling, and if everyone rolls, the % of persons failing actually gets bigger.
actually, I'd like to see spellbooks on chronicles. it would be a cool trophy, to be able to say:
SCPRedMage: in answer to your question... yes, that is. and it's one of the few allowed and covered in the rules.
Originally, we couldn't cast that spell for someone else. In fact, originally we couldn't cast continual flame for ourselves and have it last past the end of the scenario (I have a 14th level PC who would cast it at the start of each scenario - realizing that it wasn't "continual" and he would have to cast it again next scenario).
Perhaps we can get the rules changed. But until they are changed (or created in the case of no rules for it), we need to play them as they currently exist. That's what being in PFS is all about.
Heck, I can remember when a wizard couldn't sell his (extra) spell book... because there was no rules for it. Now there is. Because we requested them, and the GM (Mr. Brock) provide us with rules to cover it. Perhaps with this thread (and the other ones) there will be enough notice created, enough need shown, that we may get rules for non-book using classes to own spell books.
Until that happens, we make do with what we can. Like my Rogue with the level of Wizard. Like my Alchemist who also has a level of wizard, just so he can return the favor when a Wizard offers to share his with me.
I don't like Fallen Fortress first, as it only gives one PP, so no one will have a CLW wand for the second game... and if you have a table of newbies, at least one will get a CLW wand with their first 2 PP...
Also, FF can be played (once) with a 2nd level PC, so if they end up playing in an "extra" game, they can still play it (as their 4th game) with their friends (who missed a game and are still doing the "Training Cycle").
...depending on the GM. The rules would allow it, but as we have seen above, some GMs would not.
long ago in LG days, I used to use Starburst candies as monster tokens... 4 colors to a pack, and if you grab two different flavor packs that nets you 8 colors. And thus "u kill it, u eat it" was invented. It did mean the "red" goblins seemed to get shot first though...
my adult daughter still calls Starbust candies "Monsters"
I bought all the goblins from Frost Fur Captives (with PP), after the Society had gotten information from them. I was teaching them to be back-up singers - so goblins with Perform: rhythm and blues. I'll have to watch for Kobolds with Perform Can-Can...
Kyle Baird wrote:
very much agreed.
and as a judge, we should consider our players wishes, and try (when able) to run the game in a way that they will enjoy... "be fair and have the player's enjoyment as our top priority"..., just a thought.
edit: when one of our players says something like: "can we/you do this? or do it this way?" - do we assume that they "are trying to pull something" - or that "they are expressing an opinion"?
The organizer looks over your group of friends that pre-arranged to play this as a team and, while holding up a stack of pages says: "Ok, here's the scenario, which of you is judging it?"