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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook (OGL)

nogoodscallywag's page

FullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 340 posts (491 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 4 Pathfinder Society characters. 3 aliases.


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Grand Lodge

Setup:

A huge creature is standing in front of a sheer cliff drop. Another huge creature is bullrushing the one right by the cliff. No part of the creature's base is off the cliff.

The bullrusher succeeds in only moving the cliff enemy 5 feet...the enemy of the bullrusher is now pushed back 5 feet and thus has 1/3 of his base off the cliff, but 2/3 still on it.

What in the world would the DC be for the creature on the cliff, especially when 2/3 of him are still on the solid surface?

X= ground
E= Creature on Cliff

Pre bullrush:

XXXXXEEEXXXXX
XXXXXEEEXXXXX
XXXXXEEEXXXXX

After bullrush:

EEE
XXXXXEEEXXXXX
XXXXXEEEXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX

Also, will the bullrusher, who is large, need to move adjacent to the opponent he is bullrushing, or can this be done with the huge creature reach?

In the above example, let's say the Bullrusher is B. Is the placement correct, if he bullrushed from 15 feet?

EEE
XXXXXEEEXXXXX
XXXXXEEEXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXBBBXXXXX
XXXXXBBBXXXXX
XXXXXBBBXXXXX

Grand Lodge

Setup:

A huge creature is standing in front of a sheer cliff drop. Another huge creature is bullrushing the one right by the cliff. No part of the creature's base is off the cliff.

The bullrusher succeeds in only moving the cliff enemy 5 feet...the enemy of the bullrusher is now pushed back 5 feet and thus has 1/3 of his base off the cliff, but 2/3 still on it.

What in the world would the DC be for the creature on the cliff, especially when 2/3 of him are still on the solid surface?

X= ground
E= Creature on Cliff

Pre bullrush:
_____________
XXXXXEEEXXXXX
XXXXXEEEXXXXX
XXXXXEEEXXXXX

After bullrush:

_____EEE_____
XXXXXEEEXXXXX
XXXXXEEEXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX

Also, will the bullrusher, who is large, need to move adjacent to the opponent he is bullrushing, or can this be done with the huge creature reach?

In the above example, let's say the Bullrusher is B. Is the placement correct, if he bullrushed from 15 feet?

_____EEE_____
XXXXXEEEXXXXX
XXXXXEEEXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXBBBXXXXX
XXXXXBBBXXXXX
XXXXXBBBXXXXX

Grand Lodge

Recently, my players and I came across the spell Freedom of Movement. I hate to bring this thread up again as there have been many before, but I wanted to try out some new ideas and try to hash out a better ruling. Unfortunately, the developers have not FAQ’d or even commented on the spell as far as I know besides one instance. If someone knows of a place for this, please, I beg, you, point me in that direction.

And to be sure, I know it’s the DM’s call, but it’s fun to hash these things out (unless the players is a whiner and argues at the table slowing everything down)!

One of the players questioned the wording of the spell and while I disagree initially with his interpretation, I see where he comes from. Also, I play wizards in PFS, and the breadth and power of the spell is important to my characters, so I wanted to see what PFS experiences have been had as well as home games.

Unfortunately, the wording of the spell is what is causing all the trouble. Or maybe, we are all looking at this way too literally or just not doing something right, either of which is a possibility to be sure!

RAW:

DESCRIPTION
This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. All combat maneuver checks made to grapple the target automatically fail. The subject automatically succeeds on any combat maneuver checks and Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin.

The spell also allows the subject to move and attack normally while underwater, even with slashing weapons such as axes and swords or with bludgeoning weapons such as flails, hammers, and maces, provided that the weapon is wielded in the hand rather than hurled. The freedom of movement spell does not, however, grant water breathing.

Let’s break down the written rules:

This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell…

This sentence by itself means literally what it says. I realize with all rules, they have literal meaning and interpretive meaning, which is what causes the hang up sometimes. Being a DM, I tend toward interpretive, “spirit-of-the-law” meaning over literal text. However, this spell is one where it’s hard to tell.

Therefore, some would argue by the above sentence, it can be inferred that a creature, under any effect or condition or happenstance, should be able to move and attack normally.

The next sentence focuses on the “spirit” of the spell, and adds:

even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web.

This is what I generally think of FOM as- useful to counter holds, paralysis, etc. All spells, by the way. However the sentence states with the word “even” that other things happening to the character will also be negated and allow them to move and attack normally:

This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web.

The word “even” is saying that the following spells and conditions are also negated. So, for instance, if the character was under the influence of manacles, then FOM would “even” allow the character to negate that along with the rest of the listed conditions and spells.

But the spell continues to list certain situations:

All combat maneuver checks made to grapple the target automatically fail. The subject automatically succeeds on any combat maneuver checks and Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin.

The spell also allows the subject to move and attack normally while underwater, even with slashing weapons such as axes and swords or with bludgeoning weapons such as flails, hammers, and maces, provided that the weapon is wielded in the hand rather than hurled. The freedom of movement spell does not, however, grant water breathing.

One good question that could be answered is:

Does FOM only protect against the conditions/events/happenstances/influences actually listed in the spell?

This would certainly clear up any confusion the first sentence presents.

If this is not the case, however, than what are the conditions/events/happenstances/influences that FOM does not protect against, and how far will the spell go?

For instance, if a player were to argue the first sentence is correct (which they have), then many things could happen, because for the first sentence to be used as “law” than it must be applied evenly to all conditions/events/happenstances/influences! Otherwise, the argument collapses.

It could simply be argued that since the developers wrote the spell as such, that it must be literal, and that by including the word “even” it is a broad ruling and meant to include all conditions/events/happenstances/influences:

This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of...[\i]
So if a player is using this sentence, then there is a plethora of conditions/events/happenstances/influences that can be overcome:

1. Broken legs. Broken legs prevents the creature from moving and attacking normally. Therefore, as per RAW, the creature with broken legs and FOM can move and attack normally.
2. Death. Death prevents the creature from moving and attacking normally. Therefore, as per RAW, the dead creature FOM can move and attack normally.
3. Armor Penalty. Armor reduces movement. Therefore, as per RAW, the creature with the armor penalty and FOM can move and attack normally.
4. A solid rock wall…
5. Difficult Terrain…
6. Ignore swim/climb speeds
7. Do characters who jump off a ship “fall” to the bottom of the sea?
a. Jason Buhlman did respond on this (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mh3s?Freedom-of-Movement-Underwater#1) thread regarding water movement.
8. Can someone under a FoM spell be tripped, grappled, and bull rushed?
9. RavingDork once added:
a. Will it protect you from any of the following (Y/N)?
b. - a stirge's attach ability
c. - an ooze's engulf ability
d. - a thrown net
e. - the entangle spell
f. - the hold person spell
g. - the web spell
h. - being tied up - being buried under an avalanche
i. - penalties for squeezing
j. - a mud elemental's entrap ability
k. - movement penalties for being blind
l. - a giant spider's web ability
m. - an air elemental's whirlwind or a water elemental's vortex

All the above, if the player using the first sentence is correct, would indeed apply.

When trying to figure out the limits of FOM, I like to bring up the spell Freedom:

[i]DESCRIPTION
The subject is freed from spells and effects that restrict movement, including binding, entangle, grappling, imprisonment, maze, paralysis, petrification, pinning, sleep, slow, stunning, temporal stasis, and web. To free a creature from imprisonment or maze, you must know its name and background, and you must cast this spell at the spot where it was entombed or banished into the maze.

Freedom specifically mentions other conditions/events/happenstances/influences like stun. Does this indeed mean that FOM is limited to only those conditions/events/happenstances/influences that are listed in the spell description after all? I’d say it’s highly likely. But the player who argues that the first sentence is the tell-all of the spell wouldn't have much of an argument now. Otherwise, why would a higher level spell be available? If we take the first-sentence-is-law argument, then there would be no need for the spell Freedom, as FOM would cover everything listed in Freedom.

In closing, I think FOM should be limited to only those conditions/events/happenstances/influences which are actually listed in the spell in order to make things much easier without an official FAQ on the matter and endless arguments about certain scenarios.
I made a list of certain conditions/events/happenstances/influences which FOM or Freedom would cover and thus will no doubt cause many a debate.

Tiny creature in a gale force winds – FOM nor Freedom wouldn’t help. It can be argued that the wind isn’t impeding your movement…you can actually go with the wind and therefore it can be argued it is perhaps increasing your speed! This first one is why unless the spell specifically states the conditions/events/happenstances/influences, then it shouldn’t apply. However, this thread (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pgvg?Freedom-of-Movement#1) mentions a boss in an AP being protected by FOM from high winds…not sure of the validity of the statement or which AP it was, though, but if a precedent is set than it certainly is gold.

Terrain effects: Neither FOM or Freedom would work, since Difficult Terrain is not mentioned.

Armor penalty: Neither FOM or Freedom would work

Etc, etc.

Simply, if the FOM or Freedom spell does not mention the conditions/events/happenstances/influences, then everything else falls in line and makes sense.

Grand Lodge

Scenario:

A character is hanging on the edge of a ledge by his hands. An enemy is flying next to him, able to attack. The character knows the enemy is there.

The question is, which condition applies to the character in this instance?

1. Prone
2. Flat-Footed
3. No condition
4. Hybrid of Prone
5. Other

1. Prone seems to make a bit of sense, but then again it doesn't, as prone specifically states "ground."

2. Flat-Footed may be the better option over prone, but flat-footed seems to be applied only when surprised.

3. Surely there must be some adjustment or condition applied in the case.

4. What about just splitting the difference with prone and making the number -2/+2?

5. Any other suggestions?

Grand Lodge

I'd like to do True Dungeon, but after all the other costs associated with going to GenCon it's prohibitive for me and my friends due to its cost. Plus, it would take time away from PFS!

Grand Lodge *

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm glad the aasimar and tiefling races are going back to boons only. It was annoying to have 3+ of these races at the table; I would venture to say over half the players using them took the race simply for the race benefits, not giving a damn about backstory.

Now I only hope the table isn't made up of furries...

Grand Lodge

Haha yep- software I'm using...

Grand Lodge

Is there any reason why a Magus should not be able to wear Gloves of Reconnaissance?

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
KahnyaGnorc wrote:

Here is my opinion:

-You don't have a right for other people to pay for your stuff.

(Also, Hobby Lobby covers most contraceptives, it is only a subset of those, like the morning after pill, that they objected to covering)

Someone's boss, likewise, doesn't have the right to decide their employee's health care decisions. Remember, too, that employees actually pay for their insurance, so it's not like it's free.

Grand Lodge

Can a fighter who uses a two-handed weapon (THW)also use a rod of absorption? it would seem that this should not be allowed.

I can imagine the argument for it's use:

When the fighter isn't in combat, he can carry his THW in one hand and the rod in the other. In combat, when he isn't attacking, he can still keep the rod in the other hand, just like a fighter using a small buckler while using a THW

This seems like a play on the rules and I don't think I'd allow this....for the same reason I don't allow players to hold 4 reach weapons on them. It's just ridiculous.

Grand Lodge

Duh, of course it would- our main question was whether a natural 20 would result in success.

Grand Lodge

If a wizard is using Limited Wish to dispel Baleful Polymorph, does it simply happen automatically, as per the spell, or does a caster level check still need to be made?

"A limited wish lets you create nearly any type of effect. For example, a limited wish can do any of the following things.

Duplicate any sorcerer/wizard spell of 6th level or lower, provided the spell does not belong to one of your opposition schools.

Duplicate any non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 5th level or lower, provided the spell does not belong to one of your opposition schools.

Duplicate any sorcerer/wizard spell of 5th level or lower, even if it belongs to one of your opposition schools.

Duplicate any non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 4th level or lower, even if it belongs to one of your opposition schools.

Undo the harmful effects of many spells, such as insanity."

It is my understanding that since breaking the Baleful Polymorph spell is like the spells dispel magic or Break Enchantment, then the last line of the Limited Wish spells must be adhered to:

"A duplicated spell allows saving throws and spell resistance as normal, but the save DC is for a 7th-level spell. When a limited wish spell duplicates a spell with a material component that costs more than 1,000 gp, you must provide that component (in addition to the 1,500 gp diamond component for this spell)."

Thus it would appear a caster level check would still be needed?

Grand Lodge

I see, because it's a caster level check, which are do not have auto-succeeds with natural 20 rolls.

Thanks!

Grand Lodge

If a wizard tries to dispel an effect and fails, can he simply re-memorize the dispel magic spell and try it again on the same effect?

For instance, a creature is polymorphed. The wizard has plenty of time to keep resting and gaining dispel magic again...to use on the polymorphed creature. In a situation like this, wouldn't the wizard eventually dispel the effect?

Is a natural 20 on a dispel roll an automatic dispel?

Grand Lodge

All good ideas.

I will most likely remove the "hireling" option from the player and allow him to then run his character only.

Then, I'll likely create 3 NPC characters which I will control and who will be int he party with him and advance; that way I won't have to scale adventures back and change published material. Ain't nobody got time for that.

We actually played this way several years ago; I used 3 NPCs but then got away from it because I felt the player wasn't getting much time for play...what with me controlling 3 turns, plus the enemies turns.

But that was far better than thumb twiddling, kept the player's mind clear, and allowed him to focus on his guy more. Plus, it did add a bit of roleplaying and story element...

Actually, i think I can just ask my player what sort of classes he'd like to adventure with, and I'll roll up whatever he likes and use them, rather than have me arbitrarily do so.

Grand Lodge

AH - just found this thread...post by James Jacobs:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kqm0?Ability-Score-Damage-Penalty-and-Drain#16

"Bestow Curse: This spell decreases your ability score. This effect works more or less like ability drain."

Grand Lodge

Can the Int and Cha drop caused by failing the Intelligence check be cured by using restoration or other ability damage or drain repairing spells or does the victim just have to wait until it wears off?

"Avoid Int/Cha Decrease: You must succeed on an Intelligence check against this DC to avoid a decrease in Intelligence and Charisma. You cannot take 10 on this check. If the check fails, your Intelligence and Charisma scores each fall to 8 for the stated duration, and you become unable to cast arcane spells. If you lose Intelligence and Charisma, the effect strikes as soon as the first question is asked, and no answer is received. If a successful contact is made, roll d% to determine the type of answer you gain."

Grand Lodge

If a cold attack occurs on a person wearing the Ring, will the affect negate or have influence on the actual cold damage as per the ring/spell?

For instance, a cold attack occurs. The Ring says "If the wearer takes damage..." thus, the damage occurs first, then the ring activates. OR, does the ring activate BEFORE the damage occurs?

Wording is confusing, especially when it also says "...protecting the wearer from THE cold damage as per the spell."

For an example, a white dragon breathes on a fighter wearing the ring. The damage dealt is 30 points of damage. Does the fighter receive 30 points of damage and then the ring activates, allowing fire shield for the next cold attack, if any; OR does the ring activate before the 30 points occurs and the fighter takes only 15?

Ring of Immolation
Aura moderate evocation; CL 10th
Slot ring; Price 40,000 gp.

DESCRIPTION
A ring of immolation appears as two ashen gray hands clasping each other; the ring itself is made of pumice and hardened ash, but is as strong as metal. As a free action, the wearer can activate the ring to create a fire shield (warm) on himself. The wearer of a ring of immolation can activate a fire shield on himself for up to 10 rounds each day. The duration of the fire shield need not be consecutive rounds. If the wearer takes magical cold damage, the ring automatically activates for one round if any rounds remain, protecting the wearer from the cold damage as per the spell.

Grand Lodge

A local store is already selling this...do they get advanced copies or something?

Grand Lodge

lol I knew it was coming....

Grand Lodge

As the subject says, can a cleric use this on themselves?

Touch of Glory (Sp): You can cause your hand to shimmer with divine radiance, allowing you to touch a creature as a standard action and give it a bonus equal to your cleric level on a single Charisma-based skill check or Charisma ability check. This ability lasts for 1 hour or until the creature touched elects to apply the bonus to a roll. You can use this ability to grant the bonus a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

It says only a "creature touched" so...

Grand Lodge

If a creature has regeneration, and is at negative HP, does it still need to roll a Constitution check to keep from losing another point?

Does the regeneration ability automatically stabilize a creature?

Grand Lodge

guess not

Grand Lodge

Ah, I think it appears the bolded language you point is our answer:

Spell-Like Abilities (Sp)

Spell-like abilities are magical and work just like spells (though they are not spells and so have no verbal, somatic, focus, or material components). They go away in an antimagic field and are subject to spell resistance if the spell the ability is based on would be subject to spell resistance.

A spell-like ability usually has a limit on how often it can be used. A constant spell-like ability or one that can be used at will has no use limit; unless otherwise stated, a creature can only use a constant spell-like ability on itself. Reactivating a constant spell-like ability is a swift action. Using all other spell-like abilities is a standard action unless noted otherwise, and doing so provokes attacks of opportunity. It is possible to make a concentration check to use a spell-like ability defensively and avoid provoking an attack of opportunity, just as when casting a spell. A spell-like ability can be disrupted just as a spell can be. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled.

For creatures with spell-like abilities, a designated caster level defines how difficult it is to dispel their spell-like effects and to define any level-dependent variables (such as range and duration) the abilities might have. The creature’s caster level never affects which spell-like abilities the creature has; sometimes the given caster level is lower than the level a spellcasting character would need to cast the spell of the same name. If no caster level is specified, the caster level is equal to the creature’s Hit Dice. The saving throw (if any) against a spell-like ability is 10 + the level of the spell the ability resembles or duplicates + the creature’s Charisma modifier.

Some spell-like abilities duplicate spells that work differently when cast by characters of different classes. A monster’s spell-like abilities are presumed to be the sorcerer/wizard versions. If the spell in question is not a sorcerer/wizard spell, then default to cleric, druid, bard, paladin, and ranger, in that order.

Format: At will—burning hands (DC 13); Location: Spell-Like Abilities.

The entire thing messed us up due to the ability being in the "aura" section...

Grand Lodge

The Marilith says it's "aura" is constant.

Looking up the spell Unholy Aura, the spell says it's a burst (a one-time event for those in radius).

However, if the listing says the aura is constant, does that mean the radius burst is always in effect, or that the effects of the spell are always in effect?

Grand Lodge

The PCs are fighting a Marilith Demon, which has an aura of Unholy Aura:

Unholy Aura
School abjuration [evil]; Level cleric/oracle 8; Domain evil 8; Bloodline abyssal 8
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, F (a tiny reliquary worth 500 gp)
EFFECT
Range 20 ft.
Targets one creature/level in a 20-ft.-radius burst centered on you
Duration 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw see text; Spell Resistance yes (harmless)

DESCRIPTION
A malevolent darkness surrounds the subjects, protecting them from attacks, granting them resistance to spells cast by good creatures, and weakening good creatures when they strike the subjects. This abjuration has four effects:

Each warded creature gains a +4 deflection bonus to AC and a +4 resistance bonus on saves. Unlike the effect of protection from good, this benefit applies against all attacks, not just against attacks by good creatures.
A warded creature gains spell resistance 25 against good spells and spells cast by good creatures.
The abjuration protects the subjects from possession and mental influence, just as protection from good does.
If a good creature succeeds on a melee attack against a warded creature, the offending attacker takes 1d6 points of Strength damage (Fortitude negates).

It seems to me the aura is actually only on the Marilith, although that could certainly be incorrect. If it is not, then per the wording of the spell, the section 1 seems to imply every creature, even enemies of the Marilith, will get that portion of the bonus granted. That wouldn't make sense at all.

Grand Lodge

Wow Hilde,

Was that done through a software program?

Grand Lodge

My submission

Shush
Male Halfling Rogue 1
NG Small humanoid (halfling)
Init +6; Senses Perception +6
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 17, touch 14, flat-footed 14 (+3 armor, +3 Dex, +1 size)
hp 11 (1d8+3)
Fort +4, Ref +7, Will +1; +2 vs. fear
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 15 ft.
Melee rapier +1 (1d4/18-20) and
rapier +1 (1d4/18-20)
Special Attacks sneak attack +1d6
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 10, Dex 19, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 12
Base Atk +0; CMB -1; CMD 13
Feats Two-weapon Fighting
Traits chance savior, resilient
Skills Acrobatics +7 (-1 jump), Climb -1, Disable Device +6, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +4, Knowledge (history) +1, Knowledge (local) +4, Perception +6 (+7 to locate traps), Stealth +9, Use Magic Device +5; Racial Modifiers +2 Acrobatics, +2 Climb, +2 Perception
Languages Common, Halfling
SQ hero points, trapfinding +1
Combat Gear oil (3); Other Gear studded leather, rapier, rapier, backpack, bullseye lantern, pathfinder's kit, thieves' tools, 28 gp, 7 sp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Chance Savior Fate smiled on you and Professor Lorrimor one day in the not so distant past. Through a matter of pure chance, you were in a position to save the late scholar's life and did so. His gratitude was effusive, and he promised that he would never forget y
Fearless +2 racial bonus vs Fear saves.
Hero Points (1) Hero Points can be spent at any time to grant a variety of bonuses.
Sneak Attack +1d6 +1d6 damage if you flank your target or your target is flat-footed.
Trapfinding +1 Gain a bonus to find or disable traps, including magical ones.

Shush hails from Egorian. His actual name is Drais Rakerrusk. His slave name was Bit. He now claims a home outside of Almas in Andoran, preferring the quiet countryside to living in a city.

Shush was born to Halfling parents in Egorian, living on the streets until caught stealing at a young age. He was then sent into slavery, owned by a middle-rank autocrat and his wife. He served them until the age of 22, at which point he quickly tired of that life.

Always curious and never satisfied, he began to realize the benefits of living under the foot of a slavemaster did not outweigh freedom. He engineered his escape and his masters’ demise, fleeing Cheliax and ending up in Almas. He took with him only a few objects, a small pile of gold, and the clothes on his back. He currently works for an Andoran bureaucrat, having good working knowledge of government administration. On the side, he makes money gambling and doing odd jobs.

Shush is a utility rogue that will fight when he needs to and stab an enemy in the back when he wants to. He received word concerning the Professor's death and has traveled to Ravengro.

Grand Lodge

I also just thought of this one: what if someone is charmed?!

If someone fell under the spell Command, this technically removes their "movement" and gives it to another... hence the slippery slope of a broad, RAW interpretation.

Does anyone happen to know what the 1st and/or 2nd edition ADnD described the spell as?

I'm having trouble even finding a spell called FOM in those editions, yet I remember a spell doing this similar thing.

Grand Lodge

Ipslore the Red wrote:
nogoodscallywag wrote:
Sindalla wrote:

You know, at first, I thought, "this is ridiculous, your players are trying to abuse the system."

I went ahead and read the whole spell to see if something was missed and here you go.

PFSRD wrote:
This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. All combat maneuver checks made to grapple the target automatically fail. The subject automatically succeeds on any combat maneuver checks and Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin.
Daze and Staggered are as much a debilitation to your movement as paralysis, on an even lower scale actually. I guess a case truly can be made here. Good find!
However, Staggered doesn't impose penalty to movement, RAW it says nothing about it. As Staggered, no movement his hindered. A character can move his full speed if they want.

Yes, it does. There is no way to say that it doesn't, since FoM specifically counteracts slow. What does slow do? This:

slow wrote:
Creatures affected by this spell are staggered and can take only a single move action or standard action each turn, but not both (nor may it take full-round actions).
Slow makes you staggered. Slow impedes your movement. FoM specifically makes you immune to slow because it impedes your movement. Staggered impedes your movement. FoM makes you immune to staggered.

Ipslore, some cold hard facts are necessary here:

Slow-

An affected creature moves and attacks at a drastically slowed rate. Creatures affected by this spell are staggered and can take only a single move action or standard action each turn, but not both (nor may it take full-round actions). Additionally, it takes a -1 penalty on attack rolls, AC, and Reflex saves. A slowed creature moves at half its normal speed (round down to the next 5-foot increment), which affects the creature's jumping distance as normal for decreased speed.

Slow specifically reduces SPEED with this sentence: "A slowed creature moves at half its normal speed..."

Hence the reason FOM is usually good for defense vs. this spell, along with Hold spells...which specifically state the victim gains the paralyzed condition...which in turn FOM specifically provides for in the text.

The staggered condition does not REDUCE SPEED. You still have your normal speed.

FOM does not say anything about immunity to staggered condition.

So if you are arguing that anything which "impedes" movement is negated by FOM, then literally anything which impedes movement is negated by FOM! Thus, all the above events I mentioned are negated by FOM. Think about that. I'm pretty sure that's not what the spell in intended for, and that is is intended for effects that REDUCE SPEED (Speed being the actual modified base speed listed under race and modified for weight, etc.). Also, intended for the actual listed items in the spell.

Otherwise, going by your idea, a humanoid with both legs broken has the ability to move at his normal speed because his broken legs are reducing his SPEED.

Grand Lodge

Any chance of this game picking back up?

Grand Lodge

Sindalla wrote:

You know, at first, I thought, "this is ridiculous, your players are trying to abuse the system."

I went ahead and read the whole spell to see if something was missed and here you go.

PFSRD wrote:
This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. All combat maneuver checks made to grapple the target automatically fail. The subject automatically succeeds on any combat maneuver checks and Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin.
Daze and Staggered are as much a debilitation to your movement as paralysis, on an even lower scale actually. I guess a case truly can be made here. Good find!

However, Staggered doesn't impose penalty to movement, RAW it says nothing about it. As Staggered, no movement his hindered. A character can move his full speed if they want.

Grand Lodge

I'm not sure FOM cares whether the limitation on actions, attacks, movement, etc. are mental or physical. But that's not the point and doesn't change the issue at hand.

I think FOM means DIRECT movement or attack limitations, not indirect. Using this key phrase would make sense to me and to the list, above, because there is a plethora of indirect limitations on attack and movement that occur to a character or monster.

Grand Lodge

RAW, which I do not think should be the case says :

enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell,.

Therefore, RAW, *anything* that hinders, impedes, etc. "normal" (how to define normal?!) are negated. Thus, the following, per RAW (which I've stated I do not believe is the intention of the 4th level spell), the spell negates things, no matter the source of the effect, such as:

Being buried in any substance
Moving with catastrophic broken legs, etc.
Armor penalty reductions
Any environmental effect that could hinder movement like wind, water, rough terrain (does this then include solid stone for those without burrowing?)
Squeezed penalty
Negate all conditions which impose any sort of attack or movement impediment such as daze or staggered or prone
Spells like Power Word Stun or other mental effects
What about a creature that is in your way???
Condition modifiers to attack and movement like prone.
Any effect that would cause the loss of even one attack in a full round action.
A zombie who has a natural condition of staggered…

Per RAW, *anything* which renders a character unable to move or attack IN ANY way would be negated by FOM.

That's why I believe the intention of the spell is not RAW, but more intended for things that impose attack or movement reduction DIRECTLY, not indirectly.

Therefore, if we read FOM as RAW we need to read Staggered per RAW as well, and Staggered DOES NOT PER RAW limit normal movement, it only limits actions; it can certainly be argued that a double-move is not normal movement and thus it does not impede normal movement and FOM wouldn't do anything for staggered per RAW- hence the importance of clarifying what the spells can and cannot do with all situations and making sure RAW is being adhered to in both instances.

Grand Lodge

Agreed with Pauper, but it does so indirectly. I'm not so sure FOM protects againstindirect movement impediment.

Grand Lodge

staggered condition doesn't directly impede it, however. You are able to move.

What if someone is squeezing? would the penalty to movement be the only effected thing?

Grand Lodge

That's what I tend to think, but players are saying the spell :

"This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web."[/b]

So it would appear the language is very vague. Even if the effect is mental, FOM may negate it?

Grand Lodge

Hmmm...I tend to agree except my players are making a good argument. The first part of FOM does say: "This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell..."

Grand Lodge

But, can it not be argued that daze does indeed impede movement?

"The creature is unable to act normally. A dazed creature can take no actions, but has no penalty to AC."

It restricts the movement by making the dazee unable to take actions...

Grand Lodge

The Suicide Demon has:

"Gaze of Despair (Su)

A seraptis’s gaze fills the minds of those within 30 feet with overwhelming and soul-crushing despair. Anyone who fails a DC 22 Will save upon being exposed to a seraptis’s gaze immediately takes 1d6 points of Charisma drain and is staggered for 1d6 rounds. If the Charisma drain would normally reduce a creature’s Charisma to 0, that creature instead succumbs to overwhelming suicidal urges and attempts to end its life by the most convenient method at hand, subject to GM discretion. (In most cases, this effect causes a creature to make a coup de grace attempt on itself, but if a more dramatic method of self-destruction is available, the creature takes that action.) Once a creature reaches this suicidal state of despair, it remains in that state until its Charisma score is restored to its normal maximum—if methods of restoring lost Charisma are not available, the suicidal victim must be restrained at all times to prevent attempts to kill itself. This is a mind-affecting effect. The save DC is Charisma-based."

I do not think casting FOM will remove the staggered condition of this ability.

The staggered condition actually doesn't impede movement, because it does still allow movement!

"Staggered

A staggered creature may take a single move action or standard action each round (but not both, nor can he take full-round actions). A staggered creature can still take free, swift, and immediate actions. A creature with nonlethal damage exactly equal to its current hit points gains the staggered condition."

Am I correct?

Otherwise, wouldn't a character that had broken legs...i.e. unable to move, now be able to move about normally?

How about it a wizard was completely tied up except for his hands...if he were tied up with rope and iron chains and such but could cast FOM on him successfully.

I would say he could NOT simply get out of the bonds. He of course could always make the regular escape or strength checks, but I do not think the spell is meant to give a free pass out of mantacles, etc.

What about the exhausted condition? If a character just got that condition as a result of simply over exerting himself...does FOM remove the movement penalty from this?

Grand Lodge

Can a large creature squeeze into the space between his ally and an enemy and stop there? Enemy is E, Large creature is L, and ally is A; X is empty space.

X X X
E X A
X X X L

X X X
E L A
X L X is this the correct positioning?

Grand Lodge

Greetings, fellows.

Cato Taldinus

Full hit point rolls for level 2,3:

1d8 + 1 ⇒ (5) + 1 = 6 and 1d8 + 1 ⇒ (4) + 1 = 5

Grand Lodge

PM'd ya Tobaris...

Grand Lodge

Just call me bard "ordinaire" from now on!

Grand Lodge

ouch

Grand Lodge

Good evening, sir.

My name is Cato Taldanius. You may have heard of me. I am a story-teller extraordinaire with some, ahem, additional skills mixed in.

I was born in Oppara in 4677 AR and lived most of my life there before venturing out into the world at the ripe of old age(for adventurers) of 25.

I have been to many distant lands and seen many strange things. I enjoy documenting my experiences and relating them to folks orally and with the written word. I possess excellent oratorical skills- in fact, I can relate a tale so stunning that my fellow compatriots well up with passion and fortitude even during a battle with beasts.

Many wondrous things exists to be found for those able to find them. I have the skills to find them, while at the same time noting every minor detail of our adventures for future recitation. I would be a valuable asset to any group of adventurers seeking treasure, glory, or even death itself.

So, sir, Restov, I will not disappoint you. I am no front line warrior, but rest assured I have valuable political skills to compliment those front line brutes. If you shall have, I would be honored. If not, please take a free copy of my most recent chronicle on the dangers of Opparan Women's Societies.

Tobaris, thanks for reading the intro. I have never played PbP and have been watching the boards for a good AP. I currently run a house game with 6-10 rotating players. Played DnD for over almost 20 years through high school and college. Just recently converted to Pathfinder in 2010. So far so good; run the Golarion game at home, play PFS at cons, local stores, and at home. I have never played Kingmaker and never played a Bard. I plan on making the Bard a half-elf from Taldor. No special stat quirks or anything, just a basic orator-performance jack of all trades guy, good charisma for politicking.

I wasn't sure if you wanted acceptance before a roll for stats or not, but here goes if so. Appreciate the time.

1) 2d6 + 6 ⇒ (4, 4) + 6 = 14
2) 2d6 + 6 ⇒ (4, 4) + 6 = 14
3) 2d6 + 6 ⇒ (3, 1) + 6 = 10
4) 2d6 + 6 ⇒ (6, 1) + 6 = 13
5) 2d6 + 6 ⇒ (4, 2) + 6 = 12
6) 2d6 + 6 ⇒ (2, 4) + 6 = 12

If accepted, I would take the middle gear choice: B: 4,000 gold to buy any gear.

Grand Lodge

My name is Cato Taldanius. You may have heard of me. I am a story-teller extraordinaire with some, ahem, additional skills mixed in.

Just PMd ya, Tobaris.

Grand Lodge

I'm new to this whole pbp thing. also to warhorn. Registering is a bit confusing- I only see two games of blackros matrimony, one has 4/6 the other has 0/6. But they don't say GM Alice...

Grand Lodge *

This was my 3rd year at GenCon. I thought the mustering was a dramatic improvement, as well as the acoustics in the hall. I have difficulty hearing as it is and I heard everything I needed to.

What are the chances the games could begin at 9am rather than 8am? I'm begging!

It was my first Gen Con special, too. I will certainly be doing those again.

All my GMs were great. My GM for the special, I think his name was Trevor, was great, too.

I did find it strange during the special that generics weren't allowed in but there was an entire table empty with a GM sitting there by herself...

I'm a GM at home for a group of folks, and every time I go to GenCon and play PFS I learn a new interpretation of the rules I was doing wrong. I think that's great. This year, I learned that, as a player, if the GM was not in "voice" of a character, I found it difficult to tell whether or not a character in game was speaking or whether it was the GM. I find myself slipping into my natural voice as well, so I vowed to pay attention this.

The GMs really put up with a lot. I find that at my table at home if there is more than 6 people it can get frustrating, especially when they aren't paying attention. Doing this for 8 hours is enough for me. Now skip to GenCon, when the GMs do this for 3-4 days...hats off. I would GM at GenCon, but this is the only time I get to really play a my characters, as my players never want to GM :(

Was the boon dice loaded in favor of the players? ;) I rolled 20 twice!

I played Bonekeep both nights; went in nervous the first time but we succeeded, feeling very accomplished after hearing horror stories. Second night I got stuck with a Cavalier who had to bring his horse with him...not so good. Our alchemist died but rest survived. We didn't finish. GM was great then, too. Fair and balanced (but not like Fox news).

I didn't think the generic ticket holders were a problem...we practically begged for one in Bonekeep 1 with a small group. Unless a ticketed person didn't get into an event, what's the big deal with generics?

I will say none of the games I attended began on time; this due to even split between table being filled or GM not ready. Just so much going on. No big deal unless it was for timed event like Bonekeep. Bonekeep 2 we lost maybe 30 minutes or more due to "stuff." As a GM you got to put your foot down and begin. And players, don't get to the hall at start time, get there BEFORE the ticketed start time, sheesh. And dont blame the muster folks, either. They are bombarded, literally. I'
m surprised they aren't smoking and gulping down vodka.

Grand Lodge *

I played Bonekeep level 1 at GenCon and contracted the Red Ache. It states:

Bonekeep Malady: You suffer from a lingering malady after your exploration of Bonekeep. While any diseases you contrcted there (below) seem to have faded upon leaving the dungeon, you still seem to suffer from sporadic coughing fits and fevers. You take a -2 penalty on any Fortitude save against disease.

When I played Bonekeep 2, the GM told me the penalty only applies while in Bonekeep. However, the text seems to imply otherwise.

Clarification?

Also, does this need to be removed with prestige? I also gained the boon Personal Physician, and was wondering if this would remove it if I pay the costs.

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