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The Horned Hunter

mswbear's page

RPG Superstar 7 Season Star Voter. FullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 247 posts (251 including aliases). 2 reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 14 Pathfinder Society characters. 2 aliases.


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Shadow Lodge

I think it is also a matter of character concept and backstory not meeting well with mechanics. I think that some of the iconic characters for pathfinder materials fall into this trap (some not all).

You have these level 1 PC class characters with backstories of them completing or accomplishing things that would be hard by even the standards of a level 3 or 4 character (sometimes higher). Then all of a sudden they start actually getting played and they are a joke compared to what they have done in their back story.

Realistically, whenever a player comes up with a character concept they should be thinking that this person was a adept/commoner/warrior 1 before achieving their PC class lvl 1. What they could and couldn't do was basic at best. Grand accomplishments from the past should be framed more as oddities of fate or luck and not so much as character skill and ability. Any level 1 character is probably within the first year of achieving their first level in a PC class.

Its also a matter of player expectation. A lot of players I know basically want medium difficulty enemies that are bags of hit points and not anything that is an actual challenge or threat. I have seen a lot of people get upset because they felt like their character was not overly effective in a large number of encounters or even in "boss fights". This also has to do with how a character defines "effective". I've seen players dish out heal, battlefield control, party boosts, and hinder with status effects all in one combat but b$!$& that they are not effective because their ide of effective is basically damage related. I'm not immune to wanting to feel like a badass and be an unstoppable force but I try to check myself and stay in the game.

I mean most adventures never make it to hero status and end up dying long the way. Even then, what qualifies as "this should be challenging" vs "this should be a cake walk". My group just finished up Strange Aeons, the last fight was difficult and we felt like we might lose for a lot of the combat (we didn't) but stepping outside my head and the fact that I wanted a guaranteed win, allowed me to enjoy the fight for the epic nonsense that it was and the real fact that if we lost the end of the world would have happened.....which would have been a good story in its own right.

Shadow Lodge

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The operative keeps popping up as being OP and when you look at it, it is hard to argue that it is not.

1)It is the only class that gets 4 attacks eventually and also the only class that gets additional full action attacks with no additional penalty. It is still just -4 to attacks. The Solarian and the Soldier at full BAB characters that each get a third attack as a full action eventually but at a -6, with no 4th attack. Additionally the multi-weapon fighting only applies to operative weapons and small arms. So the operative is the only class that can achieve -3/-3/-3/-3.

2) Tons of skill points and skill bonuses. I get that the operative is a skill monkey but after all of the skill points it already gets 8+int, it gets a free skill point in 2 skills each level because of it's specialization and gets mountains of insight bonuses to skills across the board.

3) The same general bonus that gets applied to all skills is applied to initiative. As a Dex based class, that basically means that the Operative will have the highest initiative by far compared to any other class, with the same level of Initiative being unreachable by other classes in higher level play.

4)Its also the only class that gets evasion and improved evasion as well as abilities that improve fort and will saves, making it the only class to have class abilities giving it a bonus/benefit to each of the three saves.

5)It basically uses magic, many of its abilities are on par with some of the most useful and best utility spells in the game.

I get that the operative is supposed to be a bad mother, ninja, monk, rogue, inquisitor, ranger type but it is over tuned in nearly everyway outside of not having full BAB(not that it matters with all of the other buffs). The soldier might be able to deal more damage in a round over all but the operative is a close second and is at the very top of the skill game (unlike the solarian who has all these abilities giving access to skills but no real bonuses and has a pathetic amount of skill points available so it can't even take advantage of all the free skill access it has. While already being the most MAD class in the system).

I'm not normally in favor of nerfing things but I seriously think the operative needs a date with the nerf bat. (I also think the Solarian needs 8+Int for skill points. You don't write a truck load about learning/unlocking/studying the secrets of the universe and then kick the class in the balls with a negligible amount of skill points)

Shadow Lodge

Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
Noodlemancer wrote:
bookrat wrote:

Apparently, a reduction of 10% means going from "guaranteed hit" to "never stands a chance."

Who knew 10% had that much power, held that much importance. It's almost like bias has completely overcome statistics.

The game's math is extremely harsh.

Typically, a completely min-maxed character is looking at 50% success rate, most of the time.
Thus, the 14 STR option would be looking at 40% success rate. This means that for every 4 hits the 14 STR build gets in, the 18 STR build gets in 5 hits.
A 25% increase in your rate of hitting before accounting for the increased damage from a higher stat is extremely important.

*looks at enemies in Dead Suns*

That math doesn't really hold up. A 14 STR is looking around 50% hit rate for the AP. 18 is overkill.

I'm gonna be honest, I think that mechanically some of the predictive math is done with pathfinder being the basis but there is enough mechanical differences that pathfinder numbers make a poor baseline. Its like when Pathfinder first came out and everyone was still using 3.5 stuff as a baseline and in their home games to find out that pathfinder stuff was more powerful then 3.5 stuff and thought all the math was broken until pathfinder got away from mixing with 3.5 and viewed only within it's own context. (note: the math of pathfinder is still broken but it is less broken when only viewed with other pathfinder stuff and not in conjunction with 3.5 stuff.)

Shadow Lodge

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Being less good at something then someone else doesn't make you a poor character. Solarian and Envoy both have their place and are fine classes, they are less optimized then other options but that doesn't mean they are totally worthless. I've seen a lot of argument that the Solarian and Envoy are nonfunctional but the only evidence that is offered in support is that other classes do damage or skills better. That doesn't mean that the Solarian and Envoy can't do anything or can't do anything effectively, just that there are classes that will be swinging harder or Diplomancing better.

The real question is, is there any reason the OP needs some type of personal validation in posing the question when it is fairly obvious that dipping soldier helps both these classes?

....Also, I say "build suboptimal characters, forget being the most powerful thing at the table. As long as you can be marginally effective and are playing what you want and are having fun do what you want". You may counter point that you want to play an Envoy or Solarian that is more effective but then you can level dip and not worry about it so I fail to see the point in splitting hairs.

Shadow Lodge

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also be aware that weapons and armor scale differently then they did in pathfinder so instead of doing 2d6+20 4 to 5 times in a round you will be using a weapon that does stuff like 10d10 or 12d8 or such...so on and so forth....so 2 attacks with that is basically throwing half a mountain at something.

Shadow Lodge

nowa wrote:
Stonesnake wrote:
Colette Brunel wrote:

Starship combat also involves the absolutely silly "optimal tactic" of having the pilot do absolutely nothing but grant passive bonuses, so that the party can use the Glide minor action to ramp up the ship's defenses. It is only marginally effective at the lower levels, but becomes gradually more obnoxious as Piloting ranks rise.

I would not be so quick to praise the starship combat.

Glide can only be done if you don't have a Pilot, which is a required role. For a ship with a crew of more than 1 Glide will/can never be used.

Not "if you don't have a Pilot" but rather as long as they don't do anything. That said, I'm sure it's in the "spirit" of what Paizo was intending.

Specifically, the CRB says that you can take a Minor Crew Action:
- regardless of your current role,
- only if no other action was performed for that role,
- once per round, and
- doesn't count as your action.

So, you can Glide as long as the pilot does nothing on their turn. With the RAW, it's tactically sound for the pilot to sleep through combat, and they'll add their Piloting skill to the ship's AC and TL each round.

Are we sure that the bonuses that can be applied are not mitigated by the equivalent raise in skills and base ship stats as level rises?

I think that the "annoyance" at low levels continues to be a fairly scaled as you raise in level with the abilities of what you are facing off against can do. I am doing this math based mostly on quick mental math and flipping pages....anyone that wants to actually run the numbers and present them is welcome to do so

Shadow Lodge

Its only the core rulebook. From what I understand they are going to release fewer books (primarily only hardback, core books). but if they release things like "Ultimate espionage", "Ultimate magic", "Ultimate combat", "Ultimate tech", etc. then I think you will see a lot. They also stated that all of the APs will have a healthy number of new tech and options available to them.

Give it time, I'm sure there will be plenty of options before too long. I'm sure there will be plenty of options by the end of Q1 2018 even.

Shadow Lodge

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Secret Wizard wrote:
Voss wrote:

It's been claimed a couple times, but I wouldn't call that 'well-established'. Especially since few of the claims show any, much less all, of the math behind them and lack context.

Applying 'fixes' on day -10 seems... premature.

Mathwise, Solar Weapons deal less damage than an equivalent 20th level weapon, even tricked out with a 20th level Solar crystal.

Envoys just do less than any other class, I think Action Economy is their enemy.

I think action economy is everyone's enemy. I think there is a lot of math and ideas based on pathfinder math and comparisons.....while the games are inherently grounded in the same foundation and Starfinder is really built upon pathfinder, Starfinder to me based on what I have seen through reading over things several times is that the math is just going to be different. There are less variety in available actions and less options to swap actions. There are far less swift actions available with existing classes. I think that the same seems true of the small handful of monsters we have seen.

Giving the Envoy an extra standard action or turning move actions into non actions seems like it would do less to balance and more to make the Envoy an unintended powerhouse. On a direct comparison, most of the Starfinder classes don't stack up but when only considered in their context, things don't seem so out of whack.

The solarian is only a few dice off of equivalent damage dealing options at 20th level but they get a number of utility options and status effect dealing abilities to "compensate". While "dead" is still the most effective thing to do to an enemy, status effects may be more a more viable option in Starfinder then it was in pathfinder (of course minus the few status effects in pathfinder that are obviously powerful)

Shadow Lodge

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Steel_Wind wrote:

It may not have been something people have noticed yet as most games have not yet begun, but Table 2-4 Character Advancement in Starfinder yields an interesting change in Starfinder.

Whereas Table 3-1 in Pathfinder RPG displays a Slow, Medium, and Fast advancement track (where Medium is the PFRPG default), Starfinder has dropped the Slow and Medium tracks and has gone with the Fast track as the only XP point progression in the game.

I must confess, I am not a fan of this. I find in Pathfinder that even the Medium track is often too fast for leveling for my tastes. I never use the Fast Track and have not since I ran D&D 3.5.

We can of course use whatever tracks we like; and if the default of Fast Track is not okay with us, we can use a Medium Track anyway and use the same XP levels as exist in PFRPG.

Problem is, sadly, as the table has only one option, I would expect that Herolab will only use one as well. It would be nice if LWD adds in a Slow and Medium track as House Rules to use when setting up a character. It's not as if the code has to be added; they can port it from Pathfinder's code base.

I'd like the option to be able to specify my own track as House rule and have it work within Herolab. If anybody else might like that too, perhaps sound off? It can't hurt in persuading LWD to offer it as a House Rule override in Herolab.

a lot of the rules are similar and based on the same foundation but there are enough rule differences that I don't think any of us are totally sure how things are going to play out and balance out yet. I think there is a lot of theory crafting that looks sound going around but theory crafting is never 100%.

Fast track equivalent xp system may seem like lightning quick now but it may not actually be that bad in practice. If it turns out to be too fast, you can always purpose to any home group you play with that the party only receive 1/3 xp for encounters in order to equate to what was slow track in pathfinder. That is easy enough to enter into herolab/herolab equivalent.

Shadow Lodge

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I would like to see at least a 1 off module that is a situation like the movie "Alien"

.....As far as APs. I assume we will see at least some regular nods to Sci-Fi clichés like we did fantasy clichés in many of the pathfinder APs....

1. Ancient evil from out of space time comes every cycle of (insert ridiculous amount of time here) to wipe out life and the party discovers them while doing something else and for some reason no one else really believes them. They have to stop the ancient evil from waking and invading and wiping out all advanced life. (mass effect, revelation space, etc.)

2. Rogue super AI is trying to take over everything, starts small but before too long it is in control of advanced weapons tech. PCs need to stop it from using weapons of mass destruction and biological weapons on population centers while working to keep it from locking people out of communication systems.

other then that....

1. I'd also like to see an AP were the PCs are thrown in the middle of fighting in skirmish battles with the Azlanti Star Emporium. Their is a misunderstanding of some type and the PCs have to work to establish a tentative peace. It is discovered that there is some type of splinter faction in either the Azlanti Emporium or Pact Worlds that is bent on starting an all out war between the two. PCs have to ultimately track down said splinter group and put them down before their efforts can cause open intergalactic war.

2. Star Ships going missing in a particular region of space. PCs are sent to investigate and are captured by Elder cultist. They need to escape but find out in the process that the Elder cult has discovered a sure fire way to wake all of the great old ones and bring together all of the elder gods. The preparations are extensive and require a large sacrifice of souls. The cult is nowhere near ready but if nothing is done to stop them they are likely to succeed. PCs now have to follow the evidence to find each cell of the cult and ultimately stop them.

3. Evidence is found that "The Gap" was perpetrated by the Gods in order to disconnect all life from some cosmic psychic plague that feeds on memory and causes madness. The reason the gods have remained silent on "the gap" is because this highly contagious psychic plague also affected them in negative ways. The few gods and other powerful beings able to work through the madness to form a plan to stop the plague had to seal the memories of every creature in the multiverse including themselves in order to cut the food source of the plague and ultimately end the plague. They left themselves enough information to know not to pursue answers. The PCs are hired to follow the bread crumbs in order to unravel this mystery by colleagues of the academic who discovered the initial information after they died under mysterious circumstances.

As they get more involved in the investigation, going from one bread crumb to the next far away bread crumb, they are attacked by various groups loyal to a multitude of religions furthering the mystery (as the gods don't want the plague to start again because it actually lies dormant in all things and a particular event was the key to it be so virulent). Bits and pieces of vague information is delivered through out the AP with it ending in a direct conversation with several herald's of several different gods who are guarding the physical embodiment of the sealed memory. We learn that some of the gods had to sacrifice themselves to fuel the magic that sealed all of memory and that the PCs can either undo the memory seal (by fighting through several heralds at once) or turn back, erase all records and info they found, scorch and salt earth on their way back to the original academic's database to eliminate it, and never speak of said knowledge again in order to ensure that life is able to go on normally. If they fight all of the heralds and break the memory seal, they have a vague memory of a bright light before the plague awakens and drives them and everything else in the multiverse so completely insane that nothing makes sense anymore and civilization basically ends.....so either way the information on what actually caused the gap and what happened during that missing time is never revealed.

Shadow Lodge

Kemuri Kunoichi wrote:

I have been kind of intrigued by the idea of basing a build around the Ninja Trick 'Pressure Points'

** spoiler omitted **

I am picturing a ninja/monk type character who runs up and pokes you in a dozen places, crippling all your limbs. (Kinda like Ty Lee from Avatar)

I'm thinking 3 levels in unchained rogue to get the talent, finesse, and dex to damage...then switching to unchained monk for flurry, unarmed strike, better BAB, etc.

The idea is throw out a bunch of low damage attacks that sap the targets strength down to where they can't even move.

Thoughts?

Your character probably won't pop off fully until level 8 or 9 which means that you will be less effective and hindered to a degree up until that point. But your build will have an impact. The most effective thing to do is to kill an enemy but hindering them can be useful and fun over building a raw damage dealer. There will be people you play with who do not appreciate your character at all and will insult it or insult you but there is no reason to not play the character you want to.

Any enemy you encounter is likely to either be immune to the ability damaging class ability or be killed by your party members before the full effect of your build can be witnessed in its glory or be appreciated for its debuff. With that in mind, it is completely legit for the percentage of the time that it is going to help a bit. Also consider that while you aren't building a ton of sneak attack damage that you are still mostly an unchained monk. You are going to hand out ok damage regardless.

Shadow Lodge **

Avoiding rules bloat is impossible and is going to happen no matter what sort of arbitrary guiding principles are set into place. The argument that scenarios should be kept under a certain tier of complexity so that they aren't nightmares to prepare has its validity but eventually people who GM frequently are going to want some of the new(er) stuff that is available. The problem with any table top RPG is the same that any game by its very nature has.

You have to keep releasing new material in order to keep your player base engaged and active, otherwise your game gets replaced with newer alternatives...or it gets regulated to the nostalgia pile....or becomes that really old game that only a super small but super loyal fan base still even bothers with.

The issue is....

That rules bloat inevitably pushes people away as well. Once a game hits a certain level of options and complexity, it stops being practical on several different levels. This is why newer alternative options draw people towards them. D&D 5th got a number of people back into D&D, not only because it was more of a return to form for Wizards of the Coast but also because the existing top competitors had plenty of time to grow rules bloat and people were getting burnt out.

However, I have heard that several people (at least in my area) have already stopped playing 5th because of a general lack of official options outside of new adventures here and there. (Which kind of highlights that either end of the spectrum comes with negative consequences). Players want new options and GMs want new things to throw at players but at a certain point it all gets to be too much or not enough for just about anyone (super fans excluded). With Pathfinder being an extension of D&D 3.5, there is only so much that can be done before rules bloat is a thing. Even if Paizo only released 2 or 3 pathfinder books a year, that would be 16 or more books since its release in 2009. Things have a natural life cycle.

wither or become a tumor I guess......either way you eventually die

Shadow Lodge

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Mashallah wrote:
John Lynch 106 wrote:
The more I hear about your "biggest dissapointments" the more I get the impression you just wanted Pathfinder in space with it working exactly as Pathfinder works. Which is fine and all, but I for one am glad that's not what we're getting.

Simply not true. I'm a fan of a lot of the changes introduced by the system, such as the removal of 9-casters, the removal of prepared casting, the introduction of resolve points and semi-formalised short rests, the new class structure as was shown so far, the removal of Touch/FF AC, the streamlining of AoO's, the level tiering of gear, and many others, which I praised on multiple occasions.

There are, however, very major drawbacks I see in the system and I'm actively calling them out as it's disappointing to see them after a streak of things that I largely enjoyed.

It seems your biggest complaints has to do with setting. I can understand where you are coming from to a degree. I'm not gonna refute any of those because "to each their own" and all of that jazz.

However, if you aren't going to be playing in organized play then you actually have a lot of wiggle room on what you do and do not want in your game. You can GM just about anything you want setting wise as long as there are rules available for you to use. I'm sure there will be some quality 3rd party stuff before too long as well.

If you aren't going to GM then you are kinda stuck with what the GM decides to do but that's true of any game, in any setting, using any rule set.

Shadow Lodge

More Oni
More Kytons
More Div
More desert creatures
More aberrations
More horror theme creatures
Less Fey

I also think it would be cool to present either more mythic creatures or a section on monsters that is similar to how they have done archdevils, the horsemen, and emperial lords. A sort of (if you want to do a mythic version here are quick and dirty rules on how to do it)

Shadow Lodge

basically people are mad because it actually balanced the class. I have seen a ton of theory crafting arguments that it is now one of the worst class and doesn't hold up to paladin or inquisitor. I assure you that in actual practice it just as powerful. Advanced Class Origins is coming out Oct 22nd. I assume that war priest will be plenty powerful after some of the options in that book for the theory crafting crowd.

Shadow Lodge

Alex Smith 908 wrote:
Fiend Binder

Black fire adept

Demoniac
Diabolist
Soul Eater

Alex Smith 908 wrote:
Cancer Mage

agreed

Alex Smith 908 wrote:
Blighter

Blight Druid Archetype is similar and actually a little bit more versatile. If you take the decay domain instead of an animal companion it is even more similar. The only down side is that there is no way you can ever get an undead animal companion.

Shadow Lodge

Ur-Priest would be good

Honestly, I want the Blood Magus to come back. It wasn't the best but it certainly wasn't terrible. It had a ton of flavor and some really cool abilities. I think with all of the bloodline stuff that Pathfinder has going on it could totally be reworked and made amazing while keeping some of the cool abilities and flavor.

Shadow Lodge

I assume when you said race you meant like a real life race? and not one of the races in the game?

If my assumption is right I would become a hispanic women and I would a druid

If my assumption is not correct and I had to become a race in the game but then live in the real world, I would an a generic Aasimar and be a Sorcerer.

Honestly if you lived in the real world and were an 8th level anything you would be pretty insane powerful.

I wouldn't live in an AP, too much chance to die and that would suck

Shadow Lodge

I've considered doing a homebrew set in Galt where the PCs are followers of Dammerich who are set by their Empyreal cult to stop the revolution once and for all because it over utilizes execution and does so unjustly. They would go up against the Grey Gardeners and various political leaders who have used the revolution to commit murder on their political enemies regardless of their enemies actual guilt or evil deeds. I

Dammerich is all about some executing those who deserve it so they would have to determine if those being scheduled for execution should be allows to go to the gallows or not....as well as serving out justice to those who use execution unjustly.

Shadow Lodge **

The idea that a paladin can't lie is a fallacy. Telling a lie is not an evil act, being dishonest is not an evil act. Even then, there are ways of telling half truths in a way which offers no false information.

There are a lot of scenarios where you are supposed to conceal the fact that you are a pathfinder.

If telling an NPC "No, I am not a pathfinder" is really deemed as evil in your game the issue is not with being a paladin or LG it is with the GM and other player’s idea of what being LG or a paladin means.

Several example conversations follow for those uncomfortable with straight up lying:

example #1
NPC: “What brings you to town?"
Paladin PC: "I am a traveling follower of (Insert deity here), my travels brought my path to your town"
NPC: "word to your mother, thanks for the explanation"

example #2
NPC: What are you a pathfinder?"
Paladin PC: “I have heard of the pathfinder society before and while I think they do some good works they are certainly no order of paladins. I know that the Pathfinders’ have been mixed up in some shady business in the past and I can assure you that I carry no wayfinder"
NPC: (assumes response means they are not a pathfinder but then realizes that the PC has dodged the question) "You have a voided my question, are you a pathfinder?"
Paladin PC: "Is not the wayfinder the sign of a pathfinder?"
NPC: "Yes but not every pathfinder has a wayfinder"
Paladin PC: "Then there is no way to prove that this town is not already heavily infiltrated with pathfinder agents, and yet you waste your time with me..."
NPC: “You have a gain avoided my question, are you a pathfinder?”
Paladin PC: “You seek a yes or no response even though by your own logic such a response is meaningless because of the dishonest nature of so many pathfinder agents. I beg you answer one more question for me good sir, (insert rest of conversation here)”

If the GM is gonna make an issue of it and demand a yes or no answer from you just so they can start a fight or make your paladin fall (which lying to say no would not do) then the GM is a douche and I would report it to the VC or VL.

(this only works if the Paladin doesn't have a wayfinder but then really, why would you have one because they are junk)

Also for all of the arguments that a paladin has to follow a code of honor....well the paladins codes are outlined in Inner Sea Gods and none of them mention telling the truth as a condition so get off it...Honor is subjective for the most part

Shadow Lodge **

keerawa wrote:
Flutter wrote:
Animals Act on their own initiative If the animal wins initiative it will delay and await instructions. Personally I would always delay to act in synch with my animal companion, just so that your orders make sense when the animal gets to perform them.
In 13 levels with a very active animal companion, I NEVER had a GM in PFS run combat that way. I would check, just in case, and be told that they'd rather I just use my own initiative.

Our GMs always run it this way

Shadow Lodge **

I'm not sure how a warpriest is a "casual follower". I'm pretty sure if you are a warpriest you are by definition a hardcore follower and are there for evil

Shadow Lodge

yes..it is not a loop hole...it is an obvious extension of the feat

Shadow Lodge

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Dark Tapestry

Arcadia

Sargava/Mwangi Expanse/Shory horrors from the past with resurrected floating city being book 6

Galt

Shadow Lodge

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Kildaere wrote:

Zen Farmer (Monk/Commoner)

Their flurry of vegetables class ability is way OP though.

salad toss?

Shadow Lodge

Kylar Stern from the Night Angel Triolgy is a "wetboy". A magically enhanced assassin and killer. I'm thinking with the new slayer class being out I have a good foundation for him to work but I know I'm gonna need to multi-class.

What I need help with is figuring out is build ideas for this character by the time...hmmm they reach lvl 10

Shadow Lodge

Ssalarn wrote:
I prefer your option 1, because while it makes the Hunter a little strong at 1st level, it still has the various limitations discussed (requires checks, competes with necessary commands, increased limitations on an already limited list), and it's the interpretation that actually keeps the Hunter competitive as he goes up in levels. I'd...

I agree and honestly I think it is what makes the most sense but I still think that it should be further clarified so there is no confusion. In a home game I would run it as my option 1 but in PFS (which is what I play most often because of time constraints and other factors) it is murky and I don't want it shifting from one table to the next.

Shadow Lodge

Jinjifra wrote:
The other odd thing is it isn't really clear whether there is any limit on their use. The Skirmisher gets 1/2 level + wisdom modifier, the hunter looks like its unlimited. So if it's the AnC that gets the tricks, (which is how I'm reading it) you can take the 4 free actions that modify an attack and use them for every attack the AnC makes.

Remember that a ranger, a hunter, and a druid can direct their animal companion as a free action (other classes unless otherwise stated in their description have to use a standard action).

An AnC doesn't just do stuff because you want them to. They have to have access to the trick and have it learned. In other words if for some reason you haven't taught your AnC "attack" it is a standard action to push the AnC to "attack" as per the normal rules for Handle Animal. Otherwise it is a free action Handle Animal Check with a DC 10.

If your animal companion goes before you in the initiative order, that means telling it to do something on the following round with it wasting an action (unless attacked) during its initial round. Of course you can always hold your action to better coordinate with the animal companion by going directly before it but it is still slightly cumbersome if you are trying to pull off some flanking crazy goodness. (Though this usually means that the player is going to hold actions on a semi regular basis to sync with their companion here and there).

To the best that I can figure out is that it works one of two ways...

1) The Hunter's animal companion acts as the "ranger" in the Hunter's Tricks options. This means that they can only use the tricks that grant them a bonus or ability and not the tricks that allow them to influence their AnC...as they don't have one. The Hunter will still have to Handle Animal DC 10 Check to tell their AnC to "Chameleon Step", etc. but in general it is a "trick" their AnC knows and can be easily directed to do. The AnC can do these tricks as many times as it is directed to do so.

2) As above except that the animal companion uses its racial hit dice as "1/2 it's level" and then adds its wisdom modifier as appropriate giving it limited uses to the "hunter's tricks" but still only useable as directed.

Option one is very clearly amazballs where as option 2 is very clearly terrible

I can't imagine teaching an AnC a trick like Sic' em as the Anc doesn't have its own AnC and the Hunter themselves doesn't have the "Hunter's Trick" ability.

Shadow Lodge

It is a question that needs to be further clarified. It was poor wording by Paizo and eventually will see a clarification. I imagine that an errata is not too far off for the ACG as there are a few hiccups such as this. It wouldn't surprise me if the Hunter gets that "hunter's trick" ability in a reprinting of the ACG after an errata is released. For now it should definitely be answered in the forums as it is a pretty hot topic and definitely impacts the power and abilities of the class.

Shadow Lodge

Vosveldon wrote:
Curative Arrows maybe?

It already exists. It's called savior's arrow and you have to be a follower of Erastal in order to take the feat.

as far as a magical arrow that ofers curing that can be used by anyone???? yeah that would be cool

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I really, really, really need this book to expand the Shaman's spell list. I also need the feat section to offer up some feats that actually bloister the new classes and cover obvious gaps in the new ACG, instead of thematic things that are super situational.....extra fervor would be a good start, extra blessings, improved fervor, improved hex, like doubling the teamwork feats offered in the ACG....yeah...

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I'm not gonna lie. Over all I am happy with this book. I think the feat section is weak and hope that it gets a major boost in Advanced Class Origins. My only other major complaint is that all of the casters in the book have decent or excellent spell lists except for the shaman. There are so many books out with spells and the shaman's spell selection is just pitifully small. If it doesn't get expanded by at least half in the splat book I'm gonna be very unmotivated to ever play one which is a shame since it was the class I was most excited about originally. *sad face*

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I honestly thing with the right feats the hunter will be more powerful then people think and its spell selection is fine. It has decent self buff and party/companion biff to do the job it was designed to do. I think once people see it in action they will be surprised.

The shaman was the class I was most excited about the shaman class but after seeing its spell list it's. The class I'm most disappointed with. Unless the ADVANCED CLASS OPTIONS doubles the spell list and actually offers me archetypes worth something I can't see myself playing this class. *Major heartbreak*Major sadface*

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TechnoJedi wrote:
A hunter is proficient in light or medium armor. Do they still suffer from the spell failure chance for wearing armor?

no because it is divine and spell failure is arcane

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Jinete wrote:
So far, I'm totally underwhelmed by the feats section of the book. I'm creating a Swashbuckler character, and there isn't a single feat in this book I find useful.

I am also disappointed in the feat section...the rest of the book is fine in my opinion even with al the "this is OP and this is weak and blah blah blah" talk that is going to be spamming the forums in the next few days....I think we can all agree that the feat section is the weakest part of the book (even though it does offer some good options).

I am truly hoping that the Advanced Class Options book offers a nice feat section to kind of make up for the lack of new options being offered in this book. Especially in team work feats department

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Soluzar wrote:


I like the ACG but it may have accelerated the problems of bloat and "mudflation" this game already suffers from.

We had a conversation about this with my gaming group last night.

Bloat is fairly inevitable for any role playing game, especially one that works from a "player options" paradigm.

AD&D 2nd E had more books then you could count after a point.
D&D 3.5 E eventually suffered from the same problem.
One could argue that 4th E suffered from the same thing before 5th was just released.

Savage worlds has a ton of options but protects itself with "pick and choose". Realistically, that could be used for any system though....although other systems don't reference the "pick and choose" aspect quite as heavily as savage worlds does so I can understand why people are willing to cry "bloat" more readily.

I'm sure there are other systems I am forgetting but my exposure to other options is limited to a few gaming sessions here and there....although Heroes Unlimited has a ton of books to the point that options are stupid and worthless because all of the quality ones are already covered.

But even then war games (Warhammer, War Machine, etc.) and such aren't immune to this either.

Any tabletop game has to grow in order to continue to be relevant. If it stops growing people become discontent, either from a "lack of company support" or from a "lack of new options"...hell even "bored now" plays a factor if you are only given a limited amount of content.

Video games are even catching on to this, which is why expansion packs and DLC are increasingly more popular. People will even pick up old games they are "played out on" or "tired of it now" in order to play a new expansion or DLC pack.

A new edition will eventually happen but what will be the primary determining factor is when Paizo is seeing record low sales with other systems regularly out selling them. This sales data will be several quarters of sales and hasty decisions are unlikely to be made.

TL;DR If a game is old enough bloat happens. If it doesn’t happen the game probably wasn't a top contender to begin with or didn't stay relevant for very long (excluding small cult followings and niche groups).

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Samy wrote:
Yeah.

why?

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It would depend on the game setting.

I can name the 8 I'd be less stressed to run a game for and wouldn't mind at all

Inquisitor, ranger, magus, ninja, druid, shaman, sorcerer, witch

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It hasn't actually been released yet. Subscription owners have their copy because they get their stuff a bit early. The general release isn't until the 14th of this month. I suspect that it will take them another month or so to have it up on the PRD. It seems that the turn around for that in the past has ranged from a week or so to a month or so in the past if I am remembering right.

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It makes me a little sad faced that Paizo has been having so many problems with editing lately.

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Yay another tiers thread. I thought we put that dead horse in the ground a long time ago. I never agreed with the "established" tiers from 3.5 anyways. They definitely had a few classes in the wrong place.

As far as pathfinder goes. Well there is a power disparity between classes but I would honestly say that it has to do with system mastery, player ability, critical thinking, and team work of the party. If I was hard pressed to pit classes into tiers I would say that there are only three tiers. Maybe four if you want to be not picky.

A wizard is a powerful class. Probably one of the most powerful classes but with archetypes it is harder to throw things on the tier system because some archetypes obviously increase the power of a class. The real issue is that the "measure" is for the most part subjective. Os rogue the worst class? Probably but they can still function. Other classes can fill their role more powerfully in combat and with more versatility but that doesn't make the rogue a gimp. Some people determine power by DPR while others use versatility and capability, and some use a combination of both. The wizard is strong and the rogue is weak. Most things fall in there somewhere in the middle.

The argument that putting things on a tier helps GMs figure the capability of the players is a fallacy. Knowing what each class can do is what is actually important.

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A "human?" "Female?" Sin eater archetype inquisitor/ evangelist of Zon-Kuthon. Character is always in some state ever increasing altered state do to the self mutilation. Make thenmLN. They attempt to "convince" people to self mutilate along with him/her as part of a path to enlightenment. They spread the glory, truth, and honesty of pain. They go around attempting to explain things using gory metaphors....like every day things.

When they kill people they eat a small piece of their victims flesh along with their "sins" in order to move the person's soul along to the midnight lord.

Not overtly evil character but definitely questionable

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Quark Blast wrote:
BigDTBone wrote:
Edit: also, this thread ended the moment someone suggested that haste was underpowered.
Underpowered compared to Expeditious Retreat (a 1st level spell).

It does more then just grant movement bonus though. Also haste impacts all movement rates where as expeditious retreat only increases overland movement speed.

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Mark Seifter wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
What's your top 5 books and/or series'?

When I was younger, I was pretty into the Wheel of Time, and I still look back fondly on those books. I enjoyed the thoroughness, the foreshadowing, and the many connections.

More recently, my little brother convinced me to read the Dresden Files. It wasn't an easy sell because I'm not really a fan of most urban fantasy, but Butcher won me over with his sense of humor and his fun take on the fey.

I guess that isn't five series, but each of those series is massive and full of many books.

If you liked Dresden you might like "the iron Druid chronicles". They are fantastic

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Ok I have a few specific design questions.

It seems that at paizo you have different "departments" that develop different lines of products. Is this so? Do you have an AP "department, player companion "department"' campaign setting "department", etc?

If so, how are things approved to go into print and determined to fit well in the setting?

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in PFS there isn't anything you can do about role playing mental stats except for strongly encouraging players to do so. (however, remember that PCs are in all ways better than NPCS. My few characters with 8 or 9 intelligence are average intelligence and not intellectually disabled.)

In a home game you can have people make an intelligence check if they want to do something too complex. That way you aren't directly stealing the thunder of a player.

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hmmm you might want to look at the hunter class from the ACG their animal companions advanced at the same rate as a druids and the animal companions get all of the hunter's teamwork feats for free. If you are stuck on druid for the wild shape ability I would focus on a wild shape build and use a scythe as your back up weapon.

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Chris Mortika wrote:

4. We're all friends, and every meet-up is a reunion. Nevertheless, don't take over the table with tangents and out-of-character tales of previous sessions.

a million times this

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Honestly I think they should release a book that addresses on how to run a challenging level 14 to 20 campaign. They should also include how to run a challenging adventure for advanced players so we get less threads on the forums about "this is too strong, I have to ban this, all my players are OP optimizers, etc."

A book about above 20 play really isn’t that necessary in my opinion but unless you have a lot of experience high level play and advanced veteran players are a bigger concern to address.

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I don't really ban anything. I tend to trust my players and when they create something that’s really powerful I take it as a personal challenge to create an adventure that challenges them. If I am running an AP or module I tend to just max hit points and bump AC by 3,4, or 5....and then I use tactics that are challenging instead of any recommended tactics.

Of course when I run a PFS scenario I run as written and just let the characters steam roll things when they need to.

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