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Besmara

mplindustries's page

RPG Superstar 2015 Marathon Voter. 5,042 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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This entry has even more problems. The Kijimuna should only have +2 BAB, so, its spear attack should be +3 and its Net +5. Where are those extra +1s coming from? I think it's pretty clear the author, at some point, considered them monstrous humanoids, thus accounting for the extra +1 (from full BAB) and the assumption that they're proficient in nets.

If I were you, I'd treat them as proficient, yes, as that is clearly the intention.


No, this is way too powerful for a PC. If someone else in the group got to be this and I was just some regular elf or human or something, I'd be very frustrated.

DR, SR, Fast Healing, and Immunities are crazy, but you're also forgetting that you can't balance a party with "CR." CR is how hard they are to fight. A Graven Guardian is CR 5, for example, but they have 6d10 hit dice. A plain graven guardian next to a 5th level Fighter blows the fighter away.

What domains does the Guardian have? Some of those are really strong, especially on top of 5 Cleric levels.


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Mythic JMD031 wrote:

Well think about this situation: Players are walking up to the BBEG's lair. The guards yell at them to halt and state their business.

Player: I'm bringing these prisoners to the boss.

Under the rules for Bluff/Sense Motive he would normally make a roll contested by the NPCs roll. Using this power, he uses a point of Mythic Power and the NPC will believe him unless I decide he doesn't. At which point, it develops into an hour long discussion regarding whether or not there was sufficient evidence to count as "obvious". Repeat for all future encounters.

I guess I have contention with the vagueness of the wording of the ability.

I have contention that you would argue to deny a player that wasted both a mythic path ability and a point of precious mythic power on such a weak ability the opportunity to use it.

How could there be any evidence against that lie? The BBEG would have to have given his guards a note saying, "I definitely am not receiving any prisoners today." There's no other possible proof.

The proof clause isn't to stop plausible lies like that, it's to stop "I swear this boiling lava is really a refreshing cool swimming pool and there is a huge cash reward for you if you dive all the way to the bottom." It's there to prevent non-combat murders-with-words, not reasonable bluffs at the bad guys' gates.


If you want to attach the flag to a weapon, you need a Banner of the Ancient Kings, which gives you the benefits while attaching it to a Longspear.


Yeah, that's pretty much nothing. A level 1 full BAB character with a Greatsword, Power Attack, and 18 Strength is dropping 2d6+9 (16 average) damage per swing, so, a ninja with, what, some kind of 1d6 weapon? Maybe with +2 damage? Dealing 4d6+2 (16 average) at level 3 is pretty underwhelming. I see no need to nerf this.

Precise Strike isn't even that great a Teamwork feat. Even Outflank strikes me as better overall. Just wait until later when you can qualify for stuff like Coordinated Charge or Broken Wing/Wounded Paw Gambit. Those are truly awesome.


I don't really understand the confusion. No, they never have to roll Bluff. For one Mythic Power, the target always believes you, no roll needed, unless they have proof of the lie, in which case, they automatically disbelieve (and it is implied that people disbelieve without a roll normally in such a situation, too).


Uh, both Fervor and Lay on Hands work on yourself without a free hand (you just can't Lay on Hands someone else without a free hand).

Edit: Well, I guess it's debatable, but the idea that you need a free hand to touch yourself is silly to me. Warpriest at least should definitely work.


Krunchyfrogg wrote:
Precocious Spellcaster seems like a great trait.

It is not. Please, don't waste your trait on something crappy like this.


More evidence:
"These claws are primary attacks..."

If it was just a single "claws" attack, they would not have pluralized attacks.


Quenly wrote:

Regarding Ancient Lorekeeper...

mplindustries wrote:


The fact that the spells are higher level makes most of them no longer worth having. By the time I could get a great arcane spell like, say, Black Tentacles, I could have Greater Command anyway. What spells are you looking to get, exactly?

For myself, I'll be choosing the Shadow line of spells. Shadow Conjuration as a level 5 spell, and Shadow Evocation as a level 6. The higher spell level isn't much of a disadvantage since it affects save DC. There's another thread somewhere here that demonstrates that the higher level of the Shadow spells offsets the second saving throw that will normally apply to resolve the Shadow element.

My other Lorekeeper spells will include Vanish (has already saved my hide once, well worth a second level slot), false life and displacement.

Yeah, those are really good choices. But like I said, I could get those via other means--Ancient Lorekeeper is not the only way, or even the best way.


Pounce wrote:
mplindustries wrote:
Uh, a Dire Crocodile is 20x20. Its head is at least as big as a PC, and probably two. How are you even carrying this around?
20 STR and Muleback Cords ;)

I don't mean the Strength to carry it, I mean the leverage. You won't be able to keep it off the ground unless you have a cart or something. Your best case is probably dragging it around, which will pretty quickly destroy it.


Renegadeshepherd wrote:
This one character can literally do everything in the whole of the game and do it reasonably well. Admitey not everything at one time but can certainly switch roles fast. For example, a mystic theurge is a valid prestige class and is awesome to play right.

Ooh, I have to disagree with you there. Mystic Theurges are pretty terrible until the end game, and not worth copying for the most part. But again, Ancient Lorekeeper isn't even the best at doing this. Straight up base Shaman does, using their wandering hex on Lore's Arcane Enlightenment. Bards, Druids, Shamans, and Witches already have a combined Arcane/Divine list and Samsarans can use the Bard/Witch list to get those spells on other arcane casters. Oh, and of course there are two other tricks anyone with decent charisma can use:

1) Wear a Mnemonic Vestment and carry scrolls or a spellbook with the off-class spells you want. UMD the vestment to trick it into thinking the spell is on your list

2) Carry a Page of Spell Knowledge and UMD it into thinking it's on your list.

The fact that the spells are higher level makes most of them no longer worth having. By the time I could get a great arcane spell like, say, Black Tentacles, I could have Greater Command anyway. What spells are you looking to get, exactly?

Renegadeshepherd wrote:
Well why would I ever try to play that and suffer through multiclassing or use SLA cheese to speed my progression up when just qualify for ancient lore keeper somehow(racial heritage anyone) and now your a mystic theurge in practice but keep the class features of an oracle. So your a little better than mystic theurge so what?

You wouldn't suffer through those (and SLA tricks don't work anymore) because Mystic Theurge sucks and is not worth it.

Renegadeshepherd wrote:
So why war sighted? Life mystery is solid but frankly most of its revelations are junk or not vital to make it work. I'm of the opinion that you only need channeling and life bond with maybe combat healer.

The core trifecta is Channel, Life Link, and Energy Body.

Combat Healer is ok, Spirit Boost is ok, and Lifesense is nice if you get to that level, but it's ok, because instead of trading your Revelations for something crappy like Combat Feats, you should be trading them for something AWESOME like a fluctuating list of extra spells known each day, some spirit powers (perhaps ANOTHER Channel) and hexes via the Spirit Guide archetype, which is unquestionably the strongest Oracle archetype in the game.

Renegadeshepherd wrote:
So trading in junk revelations for the ability to swap combat feats on the fly to match the situation seems perfectly viable to me. If one wants to shoot you can be competent on the fly, if you need to use reach tactics you got combat reflexes, and so on and on. In fact combat reflexes and bodyguard are my favorite...

You could, uh, just take those as actual feats. I wouldn't, of course--if I were trying to play healer, I'd have Fey Foundling, Selective Channel, and Quick Channel, but if I were going for something else, yeah, just take the feats.

If you're looking for melee power, you almost certainly want to be a Lunar Oracle for the shapeshifting, since polymorphing into a form with lots of natural attacks is almost always the best way to fight.

Renegadeshepherd wrote:
3) gloves of arcane striking (+1-5)

You have no arcane caster level, so even if you could get Arcane Strike, these do nothing for you.

Renegadeshepherd wrote:
But one thing bodyguard did gain was gloves of arcane striking(+1-5) because you could cast arcane spells and you didn't have to take the feat because of warisghted. Not the best thing you could do but it's just another thing you can do that you did better than the guy who was built for it.

You can't cast arcane spells, you cast divine spells. You just move some arcane spells to your divine list.


graystone wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

Rays are considered weapons.

If you are dealing Bludgeoning with a Ray, then you you are dealing it with a weapon.

Yep, it's why you can take weapon focus in it. :)

No, rays are not considered weapons, unfortunately, they are weaponlike (which is what makes them eligible for weapon focus and the like). You aim a ray as if it were a ranged weapon, meaning, again, that it is not a ranged weapon.


Even if you deal bludgeoning damage with your spell, it's not a bludgeoning weapon, sorry.


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Uh, a Dire Crocodile is 20x20. Its head is at least as big as a PC, and probably two. How are you even carrying this around?


Uh, it's not. Warsighted is actually kind of crappy. It's vastly more powerful to be a Spirit Guide than being Warsighted because spells and supernatural powers will always, unfortunately, be more powerful than feats. Ancient Lorekeeper is ok, but if you want wizard spells on an otherwise (mostly) divine caster, I'd suggest a Shaman using their Wandering Hex on the Lore Spirit's Arcane Enlightenment Hex.


There's pretty much just the aforementioned Aquatic Combatant, but since it removes all attack penalties and all damage penalties for slashing weapons, how much more could you want? Just get a way to breath underwater and you're set.


Yeah, they do sort of stack. If I have 20 max HP, and I take 10 nonlethal damage, nothing happens. But if I then take 11 lethal damage, my HPs are down to 9. Since I have 10 nonlethal and 10 > 9, I fall unconscious. So, yes, they totally "stack."

Marathon Voter 2015

Feros wrote:

Monica Marlowe — Down the Blighted Path

Honorable Mention:

Christopher Wasko — The Hollowheart Conquest

Yep, I agree. They've been consistently my favorites throughout, too. Christopher was my second favorite in every single round, which was awesome until this last vote. Sorry if you don't win, but you should both get work from this.


You really don't need to worry about BAB much when you primarily use natural attacks. Monstrous Physique is amazing. Even with just version 1, you can get 5 attacks (popobala). 7, if the Arach is a valid form. it just gets crazier from there.

It might be rough for the first 4 or 5 levels, but once you get good polymorphs, it's no problem.


Um, Improved Familiar. Those are the combat creatures. A small earth elemental starts with 16 Strength.

Some GMs might fight you on the technicalities (Improved Familiars can't speak with others of its kind and Mauler replaces that, you don't have an arcane caster level even though you have effective wizard levels, etc.), but I am pretty sure the RAI should allow it (since Improved Familiar is not an archetype and because effective wizard levels).

If you really have to us the base creatures, I feel like I remember goat being the best combat option. It's even small, so it can actually threaten. A goat doesn't especially fit Osirion, but, it probably fits more than a monkey does. There're are no monkeys in the Egyptian desert. At least the crocodile fits the setting.


Intimidating Performance does not actually help with action economy. I know, I thought the same thing when I first read it. But actually stop and think about it. If you can start Dirge of Doom as a Swift, you can already use Dirge of Doom followed by Dazzling Display. And if you can start your performance as a move, you can already Dirge of Doom and then demoralize as a standard action.

What intimidating performance actually does is let you use Perform instead of Intimidate. It's only worth taking if you are an archetype that loses Versatile Performance (I wouldn't recommend being one of those, versatile performance is awesome!) or you never intend to take Comedy, Percussion, or Keyboards.

In other words, drop it for a better feat, like Disheartening Display or Motivating Display. Or save yourself another two feats and just use Blistering Invective for AoE demoralize. I play a full support Bard that has never swung a weapon and felt that weapon focus was totally wasted.


Uh, you could also just have a bat tumor. Other than it being icky, there's no downside to the familiar being a Tumor. In fact, it's mechanically all bonus, since it functions identically to a regular familiar, plus it can attach for some Fast Healing 5. It is gross, though.


Blood Hags are in the Bestiary 4, which was published in 2013, three years after Kingmaker.

That said, a hag coven functions at CL 9. Firestorm should only be doing 9d6, which averages 31.5 damage. In order to drop 44 damage, he would need to be rolling 5+ on just about every die.

This sounds ridiculous all around. Given that you don't know your status, that you can post for several hours without an outcome, I am guessing this is a play by post game? Why not, maybe, try playing at a real table rather than play by post? I have literally never heard of a play by post campaign going well.

Marathon Voter 2015

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I barely made my vote in time, but I picked Barca's Haven (the guy that made the monster I hated the most made the encounter I liked the best using a monster I was totally ambivalent about! Nice job) and Darkblight Fallow.

The Hanging Gardens gets an honorable mention. If I were voting on the entire competition and not just this round, I would have voted Darkblight Fallow and Hanging Gardens.

However, I'm pretty sure nobody else liked Barca's Haven, so, oh well. It is interesting to me, however, that Chris Wasko has made my second favorite entry in each round so far.


UMDing a Ring of Revelation works. The srd has a note about a developer saying it doesn't, because UMD lets you pretend to be another class, but can't let you pretend to have the powers of a class.

Except, one of the UMD options is Emulate a Class Feature, and the mystery you select as an oracle is a class feature, so, uh, yeah. It works by RAW.


Verzen wrote:
I kinda want to get heavy armor proficiency and rock 23 AC as a water based kineticist

At level 6, my Water kineticist is rocking 27 AC, and I'm in light armor (well, water armor, now, but I would be in light if I wasn't using water armor). When you're a dex based class, why would you want heavy armor?


I had another session. Nothing happened once again. We had one "fight" and by "fight" I mean the GM just wanted us to grovel with a monster we couldn't touch (we're level 6, a 28 to hit missed, and the thing was rolling against us in the 40s), even though we spent the previous session preparing to fight it and buying weapons to hurt it. That was...horrible...but, it still shows a weakness of the class:

I'm getting more and more frustrated by the lack of narrative power--since this game is, bizarrely, not including many fights, there's basically nothing I can do to contribute to the game beyond roll my lousy skills. I hate that I basically need magic spells for my class to meaningfully interact with this campaign.

The game is going Mythic and, well, nothing in the Mythic rules meaningfully interacts with my SLAs. My only option is Guardian, which would add even more unnecessary, irrelevant toughness to my "diamond cannon."

At this point, with a heavy heart, I am trying to maneuver the GM into letting me rebuild as a different class or switch characters completely. The math on the class works totally fine, but, I'm effectively just a more different fighter that doesn't need a piece of equipment to fly (eventually) or get special senses. :(


Can we just lift Thundercall straight from the Thundercaller archetype and give it wholesale to the Sound Striker? That's the bardic music based attack everyone wants, and Sound Striker would let you get it without the weird animal/survival business, or those worthless Call Lightnings (Thundercall outdamages it easily anyway).


Feats, in magic item terms are worth about 5,000gp. Slotless items (Ioun Stones, weapons, rods, etc.) are twice as expensive.

So, adding Vital Strike to a weapon should probably cost about 10,000 gp. I don't think this is underpriced--Vital Strike is a weak feat for weapon users anyway (only natural attacks with massive base damage, like a T-Rex's bite, really benefit from it). I do think the Ioun stone that gives Alertness, however, is drastically overcosted, as even though it is a feat, it is one of the least useful feats in the game, and I've never seen anyone take it for any reason.


Isn't Stinking Cloud 3rd level? It's awesome for its level, but not that awesome.

And no, since it doesn't say you can hold your breath to avoid it, you can't. Nothing about it suggests it's actually an inhaled effect. Tear Gas, for example, works even if you hold your breath because it screws with your pores and eyes.


Mark Seifter wrote:
Quote:
high damage (not archery level, but still), no mobility.
Once iteratives and haste appear, you likely trade away the least amount of damage if you move, though. Most characters lose more than 1/3 of their damage for moving. That makes you more potentially mobile with less of a loss.

You're definitely right about that. Except for spellcasters. I guess this complaint is mostly about 3rd edition in general, then.


Hargert wrote:
Sounds like it has some of the problem that the 3.5 Warlock has in that you are very bursty and a string of bad rolls can completely take you out. It also sounds like you DM needs to work on challenging you. You should have some threat to your safety from time to time.

Yeah, I hit like a truck, but, I basically have zero options that are worth using over said truck.

Kinetic Cover is actually awesome, but I'm not going to spend actions foiling enemy attacks when I'm the party's only heavy hitter. Maybe when the Barbarian and Fighter come back, I don't know. I can move MASSIVE quantities of water around, but, well, there just aren't huge bodies of water around. The caves these robots were in weren't sloped down, either, so I couldn't flood them anyway. But moving water around or creating a tiny wall is 100% of my non-blasting ability.

I'm looking at the future here:
Next level, I get Composite, which will let me hit harder if I have to.

Before 10th, my only real options are Entangling (which only works on cold blasts, and I've found them severely lacking--the near guaranteed hit doesn't compensate for the lost damage in my DPR calculations), Snaking (which adds no options, just removes penalties), a increased speed + a swim speed (there's already no water and I don't move because I have to gather energy), tremorsense in water (again, not much water), and the Mobile Ball thing Mark previewed. The Mobile thing looks weak, but it might be interesting enough to justify trying it out--hopefully, it'll feel like a different option.

Then, at 10th, I can Air Walk, which is awesome, but since I don't move in a fight, it's more like just a useful utility than a real option. I can also get a permanent miss chance--very cool, but, again, not expanding options. The only thing in the near future that does expand options and tactical depth is Spark of Life, which also kind of sucks as is.

So, I'm getting concerned, I guess, is my point. The class's power as a blaster feels fine. End game DPR spreadsheets I ran suggested they keep reasonable pace with two-handed Barbarians (though, neither are close to archers or gunslingers)--I guess blasting just isn't as fun as I hoped.

As for the GM challenging me, I'm a Hydrokineticist with a relatively high starting stat array. Because the game is going Mythic (soon?), the GM has given us all Max HP. I have the same HP as the barbarian now--90 at level 6 (though I have 12 nonlethal worth of burn all the time). The fighter has 78. I think the Monk has 66, and the rest of the party has 60 or less.

I also have 26 AC, the highest in the party. The monk, cleric, and hunter's tiger pet have 22. Everyone else has 20 or less. I also have the best saves overall in the party (+13/+13/+8, though the Cleric and Monk have more Will).

I didn't mention it in the account above, but when it was clear the other members of the party couldn't get through their Hardness, the murderballs just ignored them, ate AoOs and charged me. Nothing could connect except their touch attacks, which did no damage, but nauseated on a failed fort save that I never failed. I don't think he could threaten me without wiping the rest of the party.

The class is built strong. It's really good at being a near-literal tank turret. Amazing defenses (except Will! I have invested so much in covering that weakness because burning myself to nothing and launching Empowered Composite blasts at my own teammates is probably the party's worst case scenario), high damage (not archery level, but still), no mobility.

I'm not concerned with power, here, just boredom.


I played again today. There were actually two fights! So action packed...

This time, we were short players--it was only the buffing Gnome Cleric, Magus, Monk, and I at the game.

I rolled horribly this time. I missed constantly, but, I was rolling so many 1s and 2s, you can't go by that. After acquiring a +2 Dex/Con Belt, I now have the highest accuracy in the party (+14 to hit at level 6 if they're within 30') and I definitely hit he hardest (I was averaging about 40 damage a shot when they landed). Though, I was stunned to see how much I was ahead by--the Magus could only get up to a +12 to hit with every bell and whistle on, while the Monk only had a +8 (he gave up flurry, that's unpenalized). I always knew they were weak, but damn, +8 at 6th level is awful--they're even worse than I thought.

We fought a pair of mutated orc things, which had lots of HP and dealt heavy damage. I went first and opened up on them from far away with an Empowered Extended Blast, rolled a 2, and missed, obviously. The Gnome (with Fire domain) threw a Fireball for 27 and one saved. The melee couldn't reach them this round. Round two, I connected for 45 damage and the Magus finished him off with a Shocking Grasp. The Cleric Shattered the remaining creature's Greataxe, but it just pulled out a Great Club anyway.

I rolled a 1 and the Magus and Monk softened it up. Turns out it wasn't an orc, it was a Care Bear because it abandoned the Monk trying to tank (who had connected for like 8 sad damage with failed Stunning Fist Attempts and could not survive another hit) and turned to the Magus, landing two blows that ate half of his (maximized!) HP.

Finally, round four, I hit again (on a roll of a 6!) and finished it with 42 damage.

Later, we fought a pair of "murderballs" as the GM called them. Small robots that SUCKED to fight. Not because they were especially dangerous--they crit three times during the fight and only did a total of about 45 damage to us over the 8 or 9 rounds it took--but because they had Fast Healing Shields, Hardness 10, and the Magus had to hold back a little because we were expecting a Boss Fight next.

Over the course of the Fight, the Monk couldn't beat the Hardness at all, and the Magus only could when he twice used Shocking Grasp (critting both times and killing the murder balls he hit that I had taken the shields off from). The Cleric is an Iron Priest and so, could pitifully channel 3d6 that bypassed Hardness, but, eh, not super effective. It didn't help that they had 23 AC, too, and constantly sickened everyone with nanites. In the end, the last one lasted so long, the Gnome threw a net on it and the Monk was grappling and trying to pin it just so I could land the final blows.

Needless to say, yes, I was essentially all of this encounter's damage (except for the two Shocking Grasp crits) and it was frustrating as hell because I kept rolling under 5 or less. It would have been a breeze with the Barbarian and Fighter also contributing big hits, but with just me and no AoE yet, ugh...painful.

I still haven't been hit yet, so, I still feel like I'm wasting all my AC and HP--I have 6 more AC and 50% more HP than the "tanks" we were running with today--but my melee options are not exactly appealing, since I'd have to give up empowering that round to close the distance.

I didn't think this would happen because I love the concept so much, but, I'm getting bored as an armored turret, even doing as much damage as I do...


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So, here's the thing. The original ruling was ridiculous. It just was. I hated that certain races and class choices enjoyed such a huge advantage over any other.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want Mystic Theurges, Arcane Trickers, or Eldritch Knights to be useless again or anything like that--I just hated that they were almost all Aasimar, Tieflings, or Scrying Subschool Diviners or whatever.

The real problem is not, "ZOMG! My Aasimar should be able to be an Eldritch Knight as his 3rd level because of daylight." The real problem is that Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickers, Mystic Theurge, and others are crappy in general and not worth the pre-requisites they require.

Ultimately, they should not allow SLA tricks to give you entry into Mystic Theurge at 3rd level, they should just allow everyone entry into Mystic Thuerge at 3rd level (or insert whatever junky prestige class you're talking about here).


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mourge40k wrote:

So, after about 7 years of being the DM for about every tabletop group I've been a part of, I have finally found a group where I can put up my feet and actually be a PC for a while. I have to say, it's fun to actually be on the other side of the table for a while, and to not actually pay that close of attention to every single part of combat. And I have to say, I'm more than loving the fact that I don't have to go for a serious character, and can actually make as many jokes IC as I want (Because Bards are awesome like that).

That being said, this DM I'm working with has recently asked me to tone down my "zaniness" because he likes a more serious game. And this led me to wondering: When you DM a game, what level of humor do you find acceptable IC? Do you want a completely stone-cold fantasy game, or do you not mind things devolving into Monty Python and the Holy Grail level antics?

Myself, I find that I like having characters who aren't afraid to joke. That's not to say that you can be silly all the time, but that part of me that loves Spiderman, Terry from Batman Beyond, and Harry Dresden knows that humor is a great thing to have as a hero.

I think there's a disconnect here. Your GM accused you of being zany, yet, while those characters are all witty and sarcastic, none could be called zany.

I think the tone of the Dresden Files or Firefly is probably my ideal. Life is funny sometimes, and characters say and do funny things, but nobody loses sight of the seriousness of what's happening just because they're laughing. Monty Python, meanwhile, would not work for me at the table.


Mark Seifter wrote:
Among some other things, Vital Strike is going to be called out not to work with blade and whip, so there's that.

That definitely fixes it.

Normal ranged blasts can be Empowered for a move action, adding 50% damage for a full round spent attacking.

Meanwhile, taking a second iterative, theoretically doubles damage, but in reality, misses 25% more often, meaning it's about a 75% damage boost for a full round spent attacking.

Later, when you get a third iterative, you can safely move action to use a composite blast at range, which does actually double damage, while a third iterative misses 50% more often, and so adds another 50% damage for a total of about 125% more.

Melee, in this case, basically stays 25% damage ahead of ranged, which I think is perfectly reasonable and desirable, given the risk involved. It also can never do less than ranged, because at the very least, you can just spend the same exact kind of actions. So, if you had a bad enough hit chance such that the third iterative would almost certainly miss, you can just spend your move to gather energy then kinetic blade/whip a composite instead, just like the ranged guy is doing.

Mark Seifter wrote:
Heladriell wrote:

I suggest that just "not working" would be changed to working within reason. For the purpose of feats, the base dice in the basts could be the first one, so a vital strike would deal just +1d6 damage.

Remember that the blades and whips are physical weapons being wielded. There is no reason the movement involved would simply not work.
As with the similar ruling for alchemist, that would have deleterious effects on other multipliers, such as critical hits.

Thank you for recognizing that! You continue to be awesome.

Verzen wrote:
Could we get options to increase crit rate or crit multiplier with these blasts as well?

Improved Critical works for kinetic blasts. Raising the multiplier, though, is not only excessive (in three months of playing, all of my confirmed crits have been deathblows--the damage is VERY high), but something that very, very few other classes get as an ability, and most of the time, it's a capstone.

Marathon Voter 2015

One of my favorites didn't get through, but I did accurately predict the top 8. I guess that's something.


Tels wrote:
If you have 3 melee attacks, and your ranged attack does X amount of damage, then that means your melee attacks have the potential for 3X damage.

It's actually worse than that because, normally, iteratives would be really difficult to hit with, but at the moment, you can Gather Energy for Empower (pre-11th) or Composite (11th+) and then Vital Strike.

At level 9, my water blast will likely be doing 5d6+17 (34.5 average) or so. At range, if I move action to empower, that becomes about 51.75 average.

But if I Vital Strike with Kinetic Whip, I'm dealing 10d6+22 (57 average). If I move action to empower first, that becomes about 85.5 average.

It's so much worse at 15th when you can Improved Vital Strke. Normally, I'd be Gathering Energy and throwing Empowered Composite Blasts for, roughly, 16d6+35 (91 average) empowered to about 136.5 average.

But the same routine with improved Vital Strike would drop 48d6+67 (235 average) Empowered to about 352.5 average.

There's no way melee should do that much more than the focus of the class, which is at range. And don't forget that a Pyrokinetic can throw (not quite) this much damage around as a Touch Attack!

Marathon Voter 2015

RJGrady wrote:
You can roll it, but each observer only opposes the roll when they try to perceive you.

Right, but you're saying I can't take 20 when I'm alone and hiding because I'd be failing over and over, but if there's nobody there to observe me opposing my roll, how can I fail?

I feel bad at this point, derailing this thread based on one, super minor ability of this creature...

Marathon Voter 2015

RJGrady wrote:
Thus, when a character uses Stealth and attempts to take 20, they fail repeatedly against the observer's Perception check. The rationale works fine for freeze (they take extra time) but normally characters cannot take 20, effectively. They take 10.

What you're suggesting seems like you can't roll Stealth unless someone is looking for you. Like, even if you're totally alone and hide in some bushes, you don't actually roll Stealth until someone walks up and could potentially observe you. Is that what you're suggesting? Because that seems very cumbersome and strange to me.

I am not above admitting I may be doing it wrong, but the way I have always handled Stealth is that the "hider" rolls stealth when they hide. Then, if someone could observe them, they roll Perception against that previously established Stealth roll.


I love the concept behind the Eldritch Scion, too (I vastly prefer spontaneous to prepared casting), but the actual execution is so bad as to be almost unplayable.

Marathon Voter 2015

RJGrady wrote:
Quote:


Since taking 20 assumes that your character will fail many times before succeeding, your character would automatically incur any penalties for failure before he or she could complete the task (hence why it is generally not allowed with skills that carry such penalties).
So, no, most creatures cannot take 20 on Stealth checks, else they would fail before they succeeded.

There's no penalty for failing Stealth because you actually can't fail Stealth. Stealth has no DC to roll against--it essentially sets the DC of opposed Perception checks. You can hide as part of a move action, so you can take 20 to hide as part of 20 move actions. You just can't normally do so in plain sight while pretending to be some other object.

Look at it like this: you're spending extra time finding the exact perfect place to hide, how exactly to pose to maximize it, etc.


Set wrote:
mplindustries wrote:

That is very true--we only really know how this works thanks to this four thousand plus post thread.

Kinetic Blade and Whip have huge problems, though, because they currently vastly out damage ranged blasting (thanks to Vital Strike and move action gather energy for Empower or Composites). I'm expecting a nearly complete rewrite of these abilities to further clarify them and to make sure they don't so ridiculously out damage the main focus of the class (i.e. ranged blasting--these are supposed to be emergency melee backups after all)--a little bit more damage is reasonable for increased risk, but not the amount it currently adds.

An Archetype that focuses on the melee option and eliminates almost entirely the ranged option might end up being a way of bringing that back, if it's cut from the core class.

Yeah, I think that sounds cool and likely.


That is very true--we only really know how this works thanks to this four thousand plus post thread.

Kinetic Blade and Whip have huge problems, though, because they currently vastly out damage ranged blasting (thanks to Vital Strike and move action gather energy for Empower or Composites). I'm expecting a nearly complete rewrite of these abilities to further clarify them and to make sure they don't so ridiculously out damage the main focus of the class (i.e. ranged blasting--these are supposed to be emergency melee backups after all)--a little bit more damage is reasonable for increased risk, but not the amount it currently adds.


Inlaa wrote:

Alright, I'll keep all that in mind. That's interesting. If this is the case, the text is misleading and should be changed.

Quote:
You create a non-reach one-handed or light weapon in your hands formed of pure energy or elemental matter, or for telekineticists, you transfer the power of your kinetic blast to any object held in one hand.
If this doesn't let the Kineticist use any weapon-based feats / abilities associated with the weapon he/she forms, then it shouldn't read that way. It's confusing. I know it makes it clear that the weapon deals damage as per your Blast, but that doesn't make the text any less misleading.

You don't make a specific light or one handed weapon, you just give your kinetic blast the qualities of that class of weapon.


Inlaa wrote:
Can Kineticists using Kinetic Blade or Kinetic Whip use those abilities with feats specific to a certain weapon?

No. Kinetic Blast is its own weapon. Near as anyone can tell, you don't make a "scimitar" you make a "generic light weapon" or "generic one-handed weapon" that still counts as a "kinetic blast."

Inlaa wrote:

Biff has four feats: Weapon Focus (scimitar), Weapon Finesse, Piranha Strike, and improved critical. He has a high CON and high DEX. When Biff attacks with with an icy scimitar that he's conjured up with his hydrokineticist powers, does it benefit from

A) Weapon Finesse
B) Piranha Strike
C) Improved Critical

Weapon Finesse applies.

Piranha Strike applies if the blast is physical (Aether, Earth, Water, Air), but not if it's energy (Fire, Electricity, Cold) because Piranha Srike doesn't apply to touch attacks.

Improved Critical would apply if he took Improved Critical (Kinetic Blast), but not if he took Improved Critcal (Scimitar). Same for Weapon Focus. He'd need Weapon Focus (Kinetic Blast), not Weapon Focus (Scimitar).

Inlaa wrote:
while still dealing his blast damage + CON? I know he doesn't gain any bonus from a high strength.

Yes, the damage would stay the same as his blast. For cold, it would be 1d6 + 1/2 Con as a touch attack, while for water, it would be 1d6 + 1 + Con

Inlaa wrote:
Also, let's say that Biff had Dervish Dance because he took a drawback for a feat. Would Dervish Dance not work because it replaces his STR-based damage, or would it work because it's not STR-based damage?

It wouldn't work both because it's not a scimitar and because there's no strength damage to replace.

Inlaa wrote:
What if Biff is a rogue and he wants to make sneak attacks with a full attack action with his shiny ice scimitar? Does it work?

Yes.

Inlaa wrote:
Finally, if Biff has two-weapon fighting, can he wield the shiny ice scimitar in one hand and a normal weapon in the other and make a full attack action using both?

Yes.

Keep in mind, for usability purposes, you're going to be eating Burn for using Kinetic Blade unless you spend a move action to gather energy every round or you make it to 5th level for your first infusion specialization.


No, both change the way you Arcane Pool works.

Why would you want to combine two of the worst Magus archetype?


Athelgar wrote:
So as a player having started playing tabletop rpg's in DnD 4e,(ya ya, yell and mock me now, I'll wait)

4e is a fine game.

Athelgar wrote:
The way I am understanding it Lvl 1 Geokinetisist[I like it better that way too] using Earth Blast(Sp) would be attacking with D20 + BAB0 = 1d6+1+CON(+2)

It would be d20 + BAB (0) + Whatever your Dex is. The damage looks right, though.

Athelgar wrote:
If I were to infuse it with Pushing Infusion at Lvl 1 it would still be the same attack as above, but have the secondary attack of the bull rush on each target hit.

Correct, but, since it's level 1, you'll need to Gather Energy or it will cost you 1 point of Burn.

A Bullrush is a special Combat Maneuver, so you'd roll CMB, with Con in place of Str. CMB is BAB + Con (in this case) + a special size modifier (+0 if your medium, -1 if you're small). You compare this to the enemy's CMD. Normally, you push them back 5 feet if you meet or beat their CMD, and another 5 feet for each 5 by which you beat them (so, if their CMD was 15 and you rolled 21, you'd push them 10 feet, if your rolled 33, you'd push them 20'). However, the Pushing Infusion has a special limitation in that it can only push a maximum of 5' no matter how high you roll.

I really hope that restriction is getting removed in the final version.

Athelgar wrote:
If I were to add Burn to the Pushing Infusion they would be pushed an additional 5 feet for each point of burn?

No, I'm not sure where you're getting that. The infusion costs 1 Burn to use at all--there's no further ability to enhance it. If spending Burn will boost a power, it will explicitly say so, like the various defenses, or Spark of Life.

As a final note, seriously, don't take Pushing infusion. It's a waste. I'd take Extended Range, personally. Kinetic Blade and Kinetic Cover wouldn't be awful first choices, either.

Oh, and you definitely want more Con than that. Unless you're dealing with a really low Point Buy (like 15 or less), you're going to need it.

Marathon Voter 2015

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I see, so, the ability is not "take 20 faster," but "hide in plain sight as this thing and take 20." It didn't affect my vote, but it's always good to learn something new.

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