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moon glum's page

RPG Superstar 2014 Dedicated Voter. Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 573 posts. No reviews. 1 list. No wishlists. 2 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Druid would make sense, as would a straight up cleric (of the demigod that created it).

A ranger would be also work. It would be humorous and ironic if the bear ranger's name was yogi, booboo, or john smith.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Once there are the theoretical underpinnings for converting mechanical work to electricity, there are a huge number of ways to generate electricity with magic-- golems, unseens servants, skeletons, magical heat generating steam, etc.. But then people will research spells that just strait up generate electricity, and all the clever golem gizmos, and create water/heat metal contraptions will seem superfluous.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

spoiler alert:

I notice that skulks do not have darkvision. What do the skulks use for light? Should I make them mutant darklands skulks with darkvision, or should I give them some pet fire beetles in cages hanging here and there. Should there be a continual flame torch somewhere? What do people think?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Its actually cool to have magic and technology interact. Have the arcane caster figure out that they can use invisibility to counter lasers, for example.

Arcane casters may think of technology as another form of magic, just one operating on different principles (like alchemy, only different).

Spells will be researched that affect technology.

I am going to start DMing this adventure path next week, and I think that the interacting with magic (arcane and divine, there isn't much practical difference) will be cool.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I would say that you can, because the creature does not fully observe you when you have concealment. It may see you just as a shadow, or a dark patch of fog.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I would say that the reach weapon must be a weapon sized for large creatures to add 10' to your reach, and a weapon sized for huge creatures to add 15' feet to your reach. If the weapon is sized for medium or small creatures, it adds 5' to your reach. Although its not specified (since 2 times 0 is zero), it would make sense if a reach weapon sized for tiny creatures (a pixie pike, for example) would provide a 5' reach.

That is not based on a legalistic interpretation of the rules, but is just what makes sense.

If a spell like longarm also made the the weapon longer, it would be fine to have the reach weapon add in an additional 5' (so a medium sized pike would add 10' to reach), but if it doesn't also transmute the weapon the reach weapon would not gain even more reach from the spell.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The difficulty this book faces is that when it comes to killing humans, the real problem you are facing is not the human-ness of the foe, but its class levels. The human qualities really don't present any particular challenge, nor do they offer any opportunities.

People will want a book on spell caster slaying, criminal overlord slaying, wicked tyrant slaying, etc.. That info will not be human specific, and will apply equally to wicked elves, despotic dwarves, and wayward halflings.


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Does anyone have any recommendations for a website to use to post campaign info to? I want to be able to create webpages that contains house rules, world info, inspiring images, downloadable files, and the like.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Within the imaginary world itself, I imagine magic is a lot more sexy than the PG rated rule books make it seem, and I don't think there is anything evil, or even weird about a summoner having some kind of physically intimate relationship with their eidolon.

Given an eidolon's intelligence, and that it is probably the closest relationship to another being that a summoner has, an eidolon lover is actually more logical than the stereotypical relationship of master to pet. In fact, a romantic love relationship is probably one of the more natural relationships that would develop in this situation.

Note this is with regards to the summoner character's in game relationship to their eidolon, and is not about how a player might role play that relationship. Its possible for any player to describe their character's romantic involvements in an untoward fashion, regardless of particulars such as who that relationship is with,


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

With regards to speaking differently, in the games play in, people quickly forget what your character used to be like, and just pay attention to the present. If someone calls you on something like a change of speech, a new hobby, or the like, just tell them that they must have been rather inattentive hitherto, because you have certainly not been altering your speech in any way, and have always been collecting elven love poetry.

Or you could say that you have been attempting to practice the art of vocal disguise, but, realizing that, sans magic, it is rather a hopeless cause, you have now reverted to your true patterns of speech. Then say that you are, however, grateful, that at least the attempt worked on several less astute listeners.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I don't think it matters whether you create the personality before the game starts or after.

These are what I have found are some quick ways to add fun bits of personality to your character.

1. Find a hobby or obsession that can manifest in the game: fine dining, booze, flirting, collecting unusual monster parts, always wearing the latest fashions, soliciting exotic courtesans, collecting weapons of unusual make, collecting books, are some examples.

2. Adopt quirks of speech. Always refer to yourself using the royal we. Always refer to yourself using your name. "Grog like good mead." Use 10 dollar words constantly. Be excessively polite. With regrads to the speach of wizards, I have found it helpful to be very familiar with the writings of Jack Vance.

3. Develop an obsessive fear. Being spied upon by extra-dimensional entities, avoiding assassination, being scryed upon, being poisoned.

4. Create a title for yourself.

The other big trick is to find a character from fiction (it doesn't need to be fantasy fiction) to model your character on. I like modeling my pathfinder characters on characters from shakespeare and on muppets.

So, a spy wizard could act like George Smiley from Jean LeCarre. In addition, they could collect books, have an obsessive fear that people around them were actually shape changed/disguised/simulacrums, and always speak politely but with fancy words. They might have a weakness for flirting with elves.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

If one was going to mostly cast metamagic enhanced magic missiles, it might be better to be a sorcerer than a wizard. If your heart is set on being a wizard, then preferred spell and spontaneous metafocus might be good.

There is also a feat and/or trait that raises the max damage by 5. That could be good since it would give your 3 extra magic missiles at 10th.

Don't overlook empower and quicken. Because magic missile is 1st level, you can apply quite a few metamagic feats to it. At 11th, fire 8 empowered magic missiles with a 3rd level slot, then another 8 magic missiles with a 5th level slot. 42 points of damage + another 28 points of damage. Provided your target doesn't have a shield spell cast.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

You could create your own centaurs that were compatible with 1st level characters. Here is what you would have to do:

1. Their horse body and their human torso have different strengths. The horse part gets human strength +6. That strength can be used for hoof attacks, overrun, and bullrush, and for their carrying capacity, but not for grapple checks, weapon attacks, and such.

2. The get 2 hoof attacks for 1d4 as secondary natural attacks.

3. They are large, with a reach of 5'.

4. They have a base speed of 40' (not has fast as horses).

Then you would just add to the above the normal adjustments for a player character race. Maybe +2 con, +2 wis, -2 char, proficient with bows and lances, +2 to survival.

That would be a totally playable centaur race. Let them make their hooves primary natural attacks as a feat.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

A philosopher king presiding over an academy of philosphers, all of whom are enlightened in that they have been gifted by an alien god so that they have gained some magic powers, but who are dangerously blind the the horrific alien agenda they have been co opted into would be an interesting, possibly frightening city state.

I would have it on the surface seem to be exactly what Plato prescribed, orderly, and devoted to educating its citizens to understand the truth. The philosopher king would appear benevolent. But in reality it would be a magically based panopticon city where mind reading, and 'all seeing eyes' monitored the citizens for signs of heresy or descent.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The trick to henchmen is keeping them in line, especially if you have not been giving him a full share of the treasure. So don't min/max him to the point where you fear his crossbow.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My current campaign is wrapping up (the players will probably be 17th level soon), and I am seriously considering running this. As one can tell by my alias, I am a big Moorcock fan. I had my players traverse an interplanetary gate to enter an alternate early 20th century Russian and a modified version of 'Rasputin Must Die!', and except for the mechanics of the 'troop' subtype, they dug it. Some of my favorite fantasy fiction inter-splices technology and magic-- books like Hugh Cooke's Walrus and the Warwolf, China Meiville's Bas Lag, Fred Saberhagen's Empire of the East, Vance's Dying Earth, and of course Moorcock's multiverse. I am really excited about this adventure path.

This may be the adventure path that makes me a subscriber.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Literary criticism has several purposes. One is to illuminate how the art of literature develops and changes over time. It also speaks to the historical context of works. How does Shakespeare change the way the human personality is portrayed, for example. Or how James Joyce's stream of consciousness arises from within the context of post-Fruedian, 20th century ideas of the unconscious and relativity. Also, how does, say Christopher Marlowe influence Shakespeare. How are both play writes interacting with and developing upon morality plays. For that matter, a topic could be how Quentin Tarantino fits into the tradition of the revenge tragedy.

Another purpose of academic literary criticism is to examine what it is that makes excellent works of literature excellent. Why is Casablanca such an awesome movie? Why is Conan such a friggin cool character? Why has Hamlet inspired almost 500 years of praise, questions, and interpretation?

Yet another purpose is to enhance our appreciation of a piece of art. Learning about the symbolic resonances that another reader finds will make your own reading more thoughtful.

So what a writer intended *is* interesting to the critic, especially with regards the the purpose of seeing how literature develops and understanding a work of art's historic context, but there are other aspects to the study of literature where it is less important.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
KazeTanade wrote:

@ AVR

I was not aware that concealment stopped AOOs and Sneak Attacks when not in stealth.Shield was picked mostly to stack on top of the +4 AC from Mage Armor, for the reason explained below. While 20% miss chance is good, I am not sure if giving up the 100% AC increase Shield will give me just because I have 20% miss chance is wise.
-Kaze

I guess the point being made was that there is a 20% chance any given attack will miss do to your having cast shield, and there is of course a 20% chance of an attack the relies on sight missing due to blur. But there is no reason not to have both, if you are finding your self attacked a lot. Its just sometimes hard to get that many low duration buffs up before a fight is over.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The good thing about Protean is that spell focus is one of your bonus feats. Starting at confusion, the bonus spells are also good in that they are very flexible-- you can use them for many different things.

Summoning is a good path for the protean sorcerer. Check out the feat Summon Neutral Monster, which allows you to summon proteans, counterpoised creatures, and which fools those who try to protect themselves with protection from evil/good spells. Also, monster summoning allows a sorcerer even more flexibility in that the monsters can caste spells for you, and you can use your buffing spells on your monsters as well as your fellow party members.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Tem wrote:

So, I've been trying to think of the best way to make a swarm of will-o-wisps.

Since they're small size, you could easily fit 8 of them in a 5 foot cube. So, a gargantuan sized swarm, which is roughly 20x20x20 could contain 512 of them. Let's say 500 and imagine they form a 10 foot radius sphere (not that it really matters).

I've looked at the 3.5 mob template as well as various templates like the creature swarm from the Advanced Bestiary, but they don't quite do what I want them to. I'm thinking that I may have to create a creature from scratch but I was hoping people on here could help me out or point me in the direction of something more along my line of thinking. If anyone wants to take a stab at producing a stat-block, that would be greatly appreciated.

At first glance, I'd imagine such a creature would have CR somewhere in the low to mid teens (or at least, that's where I want it for my game).

All ideas welcome.

My experience with mobs (from 3.5) and troops (from reign of winter) is that they really irritate my players, who feel with some justification that they should be able to target the mob/troops individual components.

I would either make it a swarm of tiny will-o-wisps (give it however many hit dice you want), and then use 4 swarms to make it really big (+2 CR for that, plan that into how tough you make your swarm), or make a custom monster that just uses regular monster rules but is described as being a swarm of will-o-wisps that have become linked the dark, negative energies of their locale.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Well, since they have 30 pts worth of attributes (+2 CR), and are vampires (+2 CR minimum), and probably have more magic items than a level 13 character normally has (+1 CR), you should plan for CR 18 encounters as the base. Experiment and see what is tough for them, and what is easy.

It would make sense that they advance level wise at a slower rate. Immortal undead probably do that. Since CR 18 is average for them, reduce the experience gained from challenges by 5 CR. So, defeating a CR 18 encounter only counts as a CR 13 encounter for purposes of experience.

As to making the game actually fun, there is all sorts of cool stuff you could do. They may need to feed, which will attract the attention of a secret society of demon worshiping vampires who jelously guard this area because they don't want an inquisition led against them, and want exclusive access to the food there.

Rule that rings of sustenance and the like do not work for undead, as such items deal with physical hunger only. Here are some rules for vampiric hunger:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/vampire

I would rule that because the players actually chose to become vampires and gained that status via an infernal pact, their hunger for fresh human blood would be extremely strong-- a potent tweak made by their infernal benefactors.

Also note that because the players are now monsters, both good aligned and evil aligned creatures are their enemies.

Check out some of the supplements, like Player Companion: Blood of the Night, and Classic Horror revisited.

For inspiration, you might look at the Vampire: The Masquerade game (huge amount of material there).


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Are there rules anywhere for fighting on the deck of a ship during a severe storm? I want some rules that take the severe winds, heavy rain, rocking deck, and giant waves that splash over the bow and threaten to wash people overboard all into account. I could make some up using the weather rules, but I thought that there might be some rules in, say the Skull and Shackles adventure path, or the like.

Thanks!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Remember that you have to take into account the possibility of a contingent anti-magic field (the dragon can do that right from its stat block).


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Because the dragon is smart, a 20th level character would need the following:

1) Good damage with a touch attack that doesn't have spell resistance, or the ability to hit a minimum AC of 43. It would actually be higher due to a +5 ring of protection or potion of shield of faith, amulet of natural armor or potion of barkskin +5 and haste, so assume AC 49-54.

2) True seeing (the dragon has displacement and greater invisibility up, and the spell seeming to mess with you).

3) Protection from fire

4) Ability to see though smoke/blind sight

5) A lot of hit points

6) A good Will save or immunity to fear (or you will run away).

7) Immunity to stunning would really help (due to weird, stunning critical, greater shout).

8) Ability to beat the dragon in melee when it is in an anti-magic field.

If it were not for #8, I would say that an alchemist would be your best bet. That gives you the fire protection, an attack that can hit the dragon, blind sight (via echolocation extract), true seeing (via extract), immunity to critical hits (via elemental body), extra hit points (via greater false life and heal), spell resistance, and all kinds of protection from melee attacks.

If the dragon were in an anti-magic field, then a gunslinger would be a good bet (provided gunpowder is not supernatural), but the gunslinger lacks some of the other points.

Dedicated Voter 2014

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Protean Horn
Aura strong transmutation; CL 16th
Slot none; Price 70,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.
Description
This spiral horn of swirling, motley colors writhes in your grasp. Sounding the instrument normally results only in a cacophonous ululation, however, twice per day, you may blow the horn after speaking its command word to derange reality. This surrounds you with a 20' radius region of chaotic warp that acts as the spell solid fog except that it does not provide concealment or block line of sight, and it is not dispersed by winds of any strength. The region is immobile. In addition, you gain a disharmonic vibration that grants you the benefits of the spells freedom of movement and entropic shield. The disharmonic vibration persists outside of the region of warp. Both the warped region and the disharmonic vibration last 10 minutes.

If you speak the command word and sound the horn while you are within a chaotic warp created by the horn, it has a different effect. You may choose one other creature or object that is within the warped region to be subject to the spell polymorph any object (save DC 22). However, the additional disharmonic vibrations imparted to you affect you with a warpwave, as described in the Bestiary 2 entry for proteans. You can resist the warpwave’s effects with a DC 22 Fortitude save.

Protean horns can only be created with the help of a protean. Typically they are created by a spell caster with a voidworm familiar, but sometimes proteans are called via planar summons or similar magic to assist in such a task.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, entropic shield, freedom of movement, polymorph any object, requires the assistance of a protean who must be present throughout the creation process; Cost 35,000 gp

Dedicated Voter 2014

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SCSi wrote:
Rabbitball wrote:
No, it will max out at 65,535, which is the largest 16-bit unsigned integer ;)
Depends if it starts at 0 or not.. :)

0 to 65,535 if it starts at 0 and is unsigned.

1 to 65,536 it it starts at 1 and is unsigned.
0 to 32,767 it is starts at 0 and is signed.

I don't see how it could start at 1 and be signed, so forget that nonsense.

Damm, I should have made this 4+ posts...

Dedicated Voter 2014

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I find myself voting for the item with the coolest potential most of the time. Most items are fatally flawed in one way or another, but some have a cool idea behind them.

Dedicated Voter 2014

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Erick Wilson wrote:
mamaursula wrote:

I know we discussed this last year and it will come up in the critique threads, but I can't wait that long - Please do not use the phrase (or any similar phrase to this) "The true power of the item is revealed when you..." Your items MUST be in an active voice and it really needs to be dynamic. This phrase is not dynamic. Please take this phrase out of your phrase vocabulary.

Thank you.
Me

I've read the repeated posts to this effect, and I have to say I don't really get it. Maybe it's just me, but passive voice just doesn't bother me. Sounds fine. I typically try to avoid it anyway because I know it bothers people, but I've never really understood the rancor it provokes. I guess I'm just weird...

In scientific and technical writing people are supposed to use the passive voice. If you read/write a lot of this material, you get used to it.

For magic items and fiction and such, an active voice is probably better. "Uttering the wondrous whatchamagigs command word and flipping it on its head reveals its true power." Its just more dynamic.

Dedicated Voter 2014

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I have seen one item that may well duplicate existing laws of physics. I might even vote for it...


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan wrote:
moon glum wrote:
Note that +4 vs. +6 AC only adds a 10% miss chance to non-touch attacks.

This is mostly true, but doesn't tell the whole story. From a narrow viewpoint one can make the argument, but simple examples show it doesn't work.

If you need a 20 to hit me already, and I raise my AC by 2, you still need a 20 to hit me. If you need an 18 to hit me before, and now need a 20, I have cut by 1/3 the chances of your hitting me. Similar discussion can be had on the "to hit" side.

If a fighter will hit on a 6+ (75%), and he gets another +1, he is now hitting on a 4+ (80%), so you have your 5% difference, but he is now missing 20% less.

Yes, 5%, but some 5%s are more important than others, and it turns out it's the last couple ones that might help the most, so don't forget about them.

It is not the your improvement to your chance of hitting relative to your old chance you should look at. When you roll the dice, there is only a %5 chance per +1 that on any given roll that your bonus actually made a difference (provided the +1 even helped-- if you needed a 32 to hit before, and now need a 31, it doesn't help at all). If you normally would need a 19 to hit (10% chance to hit), and with a +1 now need an 18 to hit, you might think that you improved your chance of hitting by 50%! But you need to actually roll on 18 for that +1 to matter. So, 19 out of 20 times you roll the dice, that +1 won't matter at all. Compare that to displacement having a 50% chance per attack of actually helping.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Note that +4 vs. +6 AC only adds a 10% miss chance to non-touch attacks. Displacement, adds a 50% miss chance to most all attacks (tremor sense, blindsight, trueseeing excepted).

I'd spend my time figuring out ways to have access to mirror image, blur, displacement, improved invisibility, etc..

That being said, my 16th level 3.5 wizard casts greater mage armor using his lesser metamagic rod of extend spell every day.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I use common early firearms in my game, because the game world is a 'pirate' early modern world. The gun rules work fine, and add the appropriate flavor to the game. I must say that there are no gunslinger characters, because the campaign started before that class existed (I used to use Monte Cooke's firearms rules before Pathfinder had them). But there are overpowered characters. I think that alchemists are probably a little overpowered at high levels (but they are also very cool).

The thing to keep in mind when DMing is that in a world where guns are about as common as swords, intelligent creatures will do things to mess with them. Mirror image, displacement, invisibility, clouds of mist, smoke fog, rain (doesn't work against advanced firearms). Creatures will be aware of their deadliness at close range. Amulets of bullet shield will be more common. Spells will be created and used that can counter firearms. There are a number of such spells in the Paizo spell lists.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Code is rejected for me as well. What's up?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
VargrBoartusk wrote:
moon glum wrote:

One thing about the 'martial maneuvers' ability being the brawler's iconic ability is that it is not really especially appropriate for brawlers-- it would be an interesting ability for any fighter related class. I could see it as an alternate fighter ability. If one is going to create a class called 'the brawler', that class should be able to do really cool stuff in a tavern brawl, like break a chair over someone's head and knock them out (sneak attack + improvised weapon).

How is a class with a parent class of fighter not a fighter related class ?

My point was that martial maneuvers, while an interesting ability for a brawler, is also an appropriate ability for the fighter class. There is nothing about it that says 'brawler'. The best classes have abilities that speak to the class's special flavor. Witches, for example, have hexes, achemists have mutagens and bombs, the magus, which is in a sense a wizard/fighter, has arcana that lets them cast spells and fight.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

One thing about the 'martial maneuvers' ability being the brawler's iconic ability is that it is not really especially appropriate for brawlers-- it would be an interesting ability for any fighter related class. I could see it as an alternate fighter ability. If one is going to create a class called 'the brawler', that class should be able to do really cool stuff in a tavern brawl, like break a chair over someone's head and knock them out (sneak attack + improvised weapon).


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Mystically Inclined wrote:
I could see sneak attack as an archetype. The dirty fighter who throws sand in your face and then hits you in the soft bits while you're distracted.

If a brawler is just a fighter who specializes in unarmed combat and close weapons, we already have that-- a fighter using the brawler archetype.

I was thinking that a class called a 'brawler' could be one that really can do everything that you would want to do in a tavern brawl. They could be someone that can fight at least as well as a warrior (the NPC class) with the ordinary weapons all sell swords and fighting adventurers wield, but who is especially good at fighting when normal weapons are not available. Hence the improvised weapon and throw anything feats, and the sneak attack (which works well with the improvised weapon feat).

It might also be cool if there was a fighter/monk class that was not called 'the brawler', but was instead more like a Sohei or Martial Artist. A 'monastic warrior' that was a fighter that had some additional ki powers. Kind of like a medieval jedi knight. That would be a completely different class, however.

As it stands, I am not sure that the brawler is unique enough for a class onto itself.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Late thoughts. I created a 1st level monk for a new campaign that is starting in our group, and thought about making the character a brawler instead. There is nothing to recommend the brawler. In fact, the martial maneuvers ability is a minus, because it would require me to become familiar with a vast number of feats, which is too much for my overtaxed biological neuro-net. Its much more attractive to me to learn the ins and outs of a few feats, and then get all those cool monk abilities, like evasion, immunity to poison, ki, etc..

This is what I would want in a brawler:

1. Something that is kind of a combo between the fighter's brawler archetype, and the fighter's cad archetype.

2. Add in improvised weapons (including throw anything) and some sneak attack damage.

3. Let them be proficient in all martial weapons.

4. More bonus feats, no martial maneuvers. It was an interesting idea, but I don't relish it as a player. I would rather just get a few more feats.

5. Give them their progressed unarmed damage as the base damage that they do with any close weapon, or improvised weapon.

6. Lower their progressed damage and add in sneak attack damage.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

A swashbuckler archetype specializing in whips would be cool. The Zorro!


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I think this class would be cool if they lowered the level access to talents. Give them a talent at every level that an alchemist gets a discovery: 1st, 2nd, 4th, etc..

Also, it would be nice if the studied combat/strike ability as a bit different, and was available at 1st level. I like the flavor, but the mechanics need tweaking. One suggestion: it takes a swift action, and then gives a +Int bonus to hit and +1d6/2 levels damage for one attack. You can repeat this. There are feats that let you apply other effects on a successful studied strike. Note this is not as good as sneak attack at totally wiping out a foe (because you can only get the bonus for 1 attack/round), but is more certain (because of the Int bonus to hit).


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I still really, really don't like the 'light or one handed piercing weapon' definition of a 'swashbuckling weapon'. It is really dumb for low level swashbucklers to be running around chucking tridents at things. The default swashbuckling weapon should be a light weapon, or a weapon with the finesse special quality (i.e. a weapon that benefits from the weapon finesse feat). Having feats that add additional weapons (all one handed weapons, say) to the swashbuckler weapons is OK.

By default, swashbucklers should look to rapiers, daggers, and such.

I do like that the you can now throw your swashbuckler weapon and get the precise strike damage bonus.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

If one is going to go the knowledge skill route, I would suggest that the something like the following:

Modus Operandi (available at 1st level): As a swift action you make suss out the modus operandi of a single opponent. Make a 10 + CR of the opponent knowledge check, appropriate to the type (Local vs. Humanoids, Nature vs. Animals, etc.). If you are successful, you get +2 to hit and damage vs. that individual opponent for the next minute. In additional you receive +2 AC, and +2 CMD vs. that opponent, and get a +2 save vs. all of that individual opponents special attacks, spells and the like. This bonus increases to +4 at level 5, +6 at level 10, +8 at level 15, and +10 at level 20.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Any thing that they get to help their combat abilities should be available at level 1. There is no reason to make the life of a 1st level character any more limited and difficult.

I actually like sneak attack better then the 'inspired strike' 'studied strike' idea, because:

1. Sneak attack is fun. Its tactically interesting to try to get the drop on people, and to set up flanks.

2. There are already a host of rogue talents that modify and augment sneak attack. Investigators get access to those if they have sneak attack.

3. It is something an investigator can always try to do, even when there other resources are spent.

4. It fits in with the concept of investigators as rogue/alchemist hybrids.


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Hunter: Falconer (has a flying animal companion, good at working with it to fight flying things), Packmaster (trades their animal aspect ability for additional animal companions, gets one extra at 4th at -2 levels, 6th at -4 levels, 8th at -6 levels, etc. They must select an wolf, dog, or other predatory, pack forming animal), Mounted Hunter (uses their animal companion as a mount, gains mounted combat feats in addition to teamwork feats), Lord of the Apes (gains leadership feat but must take apes, including advanced apes, in place of NPC followers)

Slayer: Mageslayer (can take the disruptive, spell breaker, etc. feat chain, can impose a penalty to concentration checks for a few rounds by sacrificing a few sneak attack dice)

Swashbuckler: many of the fighter archetypes should have swashbuckling versions, including the two weapon fighter, the cad, the mobile fighter, the brawler. There should also missile weapon using versions (crossbow, gun, bow).


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Brew Potion, as a bonus feat, should be an investigator talent. They have the option of selecting the alchemical discoveries related to potions after all. And technically, without this, there is not a way for them to brew potions (it is my understanding that, officially, the item creation feats don't work with alchemical elixirs).


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I think that the rogue might be a full BAB class what with their reliance of martial prowess, their single good save, and the fact that they have other limitations that make less good at going toe to toe than a fighter (weapon limitations, armor limitations, no weapon specialization). It actually fits the image of the rogue in fantasy literature fairly well too.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
moon glum wrote:
Excaliburproxy wrote:
moon glum wrote:

Your idea is good. I would develop it further by allowing a 1st level use of inspiration 'attack weakpoints', that cost 2 inspiration points, and gave you +1d6 per 2 levels precision damage against a single opponent. It would last for a limited time. There could be an investigator talent that lowered the cost to 1 inspiration point.

That would give an investigator cool combat abilities at 1st level, and would be different from sneak attack.

Well, I still would prefer giving the investigator some sneak attack ability that is not locked behind inspiration costs since that will give them some combat ability when their potions and inspiration have run out.

And I thought the first d6 should be at level 2 to keep them one level behind the rogue even with the inspiration payment (to help throw rogue a bone sort of). It also makes a one level dip in investigator not as good as this alternate version (which is actually sort of like the first version of this idea that I proposed a couple days ago).

I think the level 1 investigator is doing pretty okay combat-wise. They are not as good as the rogue for stabbing guys, but they have potions and inspiration to offset that. Like: they are sort of lvl 1 wizard-esque (or level 1 cleric-esque for that matter). They have some combat ability in the form of their stabby rapier but most of their usefulness will come from other resources.

Keeping them so weak in combat until level 4 is a bit much, though.

The cool thing about sneak attack is that it requires a bit of tactics to use. As a player, it is fun to try to figure out a way to sneak attack an opponent. So, adding an inspiration based bonus to damage at level 1 (that is 1d6 per 4 levels) and sneak attack at level 1 (and then incrementing 1d per 4 levels (2d6 at 5th, 3d6 at 10th, etc.) would be cool too.

I don't see any reason to delay the sneak attack die till level 2 though. I think that there might be one character in a hundred...

Nah, I take it back. It would be better just to give them the 1/4/7/10/13/16/19 sneak attack progression, and forget the inspiration based damage bonus, at least as a talent available at 1st level.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Excaliburproxy wrote:
moon glum wrote:

Your idea is good. I would develop it further by allowing a 1st level use of inspiration 'attack weakpoints', that cost 2 inspiration points, and gave you +1d6 per 2 levels precision damage against a single opponent. It would last for a limited time. There could be an investigator talent that lowered the cost to 1 inspiration point.

That would give an investigator cool combat abilities at 1st level, and would be different from sneak attack.

Well, I still would prefer giving the investigator some sneak attack ability that is not locked behind inspiration costs since that will give them some combat ability when their potions and inspiration have run out.

And I thought the first d6 should be at level 2 to keep them one level behind the rogue even with the inspiration payment (to help throw rogue a bone sort of). It also makes a one level dip in investigator not as good as this alternate version (which is actually sort of like the first version of this idea that I proposed a couple days ago).

I think the level 1 investigator is doing pretty okay combat-wise. They are not as good as the rogue for stabbing guys, but they have potions and inspiration to offset that. Like: they are sort of lvl 1 wizard-esque (or level 1 cleric-esque for that matter). They have some combat ability in the form of their stabby rapier but most of their usefulness will come from other resources.

Keeping them so weak in combat until level 4 is a bit much, though.

The cool thing about sneak attack is that it requires a bit of tactics to use. As a player, it is fun to try to figure out a way to sneak attack an opponent. So, adding an inspiration based bonus to damage at level 1 (that is 1d6 per 4 levels) and sneak attack at level 1 (and then incrementing 1d per 4 levels (2d6 at 5th, 3d6 at 10th, etc.) would be cool too.

I don't see any reason to delay the sneak attack die till level 2 though. I think that there might be one character in a hundred that dips a level in investigator to get a sneak attack die.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Your idea is good. I would develop it further by allowing a 1st level use of inspiration 'attack weakpoints', that cost 2 inspiration points, and gave you +1d6 per 2 levels precision damage against a single opponent. It would last for a limited time. There could be an investigator talent that lowered the cost to 1 inspiration point.

That would give an investigator cool combat abilities at 1st level, and would be different from sneak attack.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Excaliburproxy wrote:
moon glum wrote:

In writing up a 1st level rat-folk investigator, I note that one is not really able to do much in combat. It would be better, and perhaps more balanced when compared with the rogue, to instead give them their sneak attack dice at 1st, 4th, 7th, 10th, 13th, 16th, and 19th. That's 7d6 vs the rogue's 10d6, and it lets them have a combat schtick at 1st level (flank and sneak attack).

Okay. Two things about this:

1: I don't think the investigator needs fewer sneak attack dice over 20 levels. Doing and extra (on average) 3.5-7 points of damage less per hit compared to the rogue is fine. In a full attack, that can be a fairly decent difference in damage.

2: I really like the current structure of investigators not getting sneak attack until level 4. That way people who want 1d6 of sneak attack from a level dip will still have to go to rogue rather than the investigator. Not giving the bonus until 4 seems like a fairly savy design decision to me.

Making the class more interesting and fun for the first 3 levels is *way* more important than trying to discourage 1 level dips in investigator. I play 4 different pathfinder campaigns, and I have not yet seen any sort of level dipping to be a problem. I think that making a class that is fun to run during each and every game (including the 9-12 one plays at levels 1-3) is more important.

In fact, the real way to discourage level dipping is to create a lot of higher level, cool powers. If you level dip, it will take longer to get the high level cool powers. Also, because of favored classes, level dipping always costs you a hit point or skill point. Not horrible, but still.

Lowering the investigator's sneak attack dice is a way to balance them with rogue. Investigators at high levels have other advantages in combat-- better to hit via inspiration, concentrated poison, enhanced potions, elixers (displacement, improved invisibility, haste, shield, enlarge, liquid body...), a mutagen (+4 dex, +2 AC). They don't really need the rogues attack dice.

Also note with my proposed sneak attack dice progression the investigator will usually have only 1-2 dice fewer than the rogue, which is the same as with the current progression. At very high levels, the investigators dice will start to fall behind by an extra die. By this time, they will have a plethora of other abilities that will make up for that.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

After Wednesday nights game where the first level swashbuckler was armed with a trident, I think that the class would be better served if it focused on light blades, and weapons that benefit from the weapon finesse feat. This would also save folks the headache of having to deal with a version of the weapon finesse feat that is not actually weapon finesse.

Another suggestion: model it a little more closely on the gunslinger. Do not have the class get weapon finesse as a feat at all (gunslinger's don't get rapid reload or point blank attack, after all, they just all take those feats). At 2nd level, they could get an ability ('nimble blade') that gave them +4 CMD vs. sunder and disarm attacks against a weapon that they wield, but not weapon finesse.

Along the lines of modeling the swashbuckler more along the lines of the gunslinger, if swashbucklers just got their dexterity bonus to damage at 3rd level, and then an ability that gives them some bonus precision damage if they spend a panache point (this is more like the pistolero gunslinger archetype), then they would all take weapon finesse at first level anyway. And, since they got their dex bonus to damage anyway, then not every swashbuckler would take dervish dance and wield a scimitar. Their could be an archetype that let you finesse a scimitar.

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