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Zasril

memorax's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 1,742 posts. No reviews. 1 list. 1 wishlist.


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Andoran

1 person marked this as a favorite.

This is a actual thread right. I'm not imagining it.

I'm asking because I'm on strong meds at the moment. For a second I thought I was hallucinating.

One gets the spell at first level. It's a force effect and many npcs, pcs and creatures don't have resistance to force. Only a Brooch of Shielding, Shield spell, or SR defend against it. It can hit multiple targets or only one. Pretty good range considering it's a first level spell. While also being enhanced by metamagic feats.

So its' not useless. Not in the least.

Andoran

I don't think it needed to be nerfred.

To answer the questions if the encounters in APs are badly designed. Having played and running a ap I can say without hesitation that imo the encounters are badly designed. Unoptmized npcs. Strange feat sand spell choices. Assuming the pcs are non-optimized even to a small degree. I find myself having to rewrite too many encounters to ensure the npcs survive.

Andoran

We are full for the moment.

Andoran

Looks interesting. I will probably buy it. I can already see the anti-tech fanbase complaining about the new items. Even though no one is forced to buy let alone use what is in the book.

Andoran

To be fair though it's a problem in many fantasy rpg settings. Where the pcs have a lot of cash yet the npcs at most silver, a few coppers and a rare gold piece. Which is why in my games if players are dropping 5000+ gps on items the vendor improves his selection and carries more items. Or improves the quality of current items being carried.

It's almost as bad as humans always being the dominant race without any logical in fantasy rpgs beyond that the devs wanted humans to be th dominant race.

Andoran

Somewhat selective. We game to have fun and socialize. So no rules lawyers or anyone with a lack of social filters or a lack of social skills. As well bathing regularly is a must. I too had a clannish group of gamers. Yet over time it was either get new blood or not game at all. As some of the older members moved on, away or just went into other hobbies. We also have a three strikes rules at the gaming table. Your given three chances and then your asked not to come to the game anymore. Mind you if a player puss a huge fit at the tabe for no good reason he gets he gets no chances and is out. Interestingly enough I have a new player younger then the group who decided to join while we were gaming at the lgs. No prior expereince to tabletop gaming except for MMOs and is having fun and likes it.

Andoran

It also make sense that eventually a shop pwneer will have access or can oprder the item a player wants. When players keep spending gold in a city or village it's not like the the gold just sits there gathering dust. It gets used. In a game that I played in the blacksmith where we bought armor and weapons from kept upgrading his operations. From one man to having four apprentices working for him. Same thing with the Alchemist shop and potion maker. The want the pc to keep spending money and ,ake sure the pcs have a reason to. When pc have more wealth than a average farmer can get in a year it's only to be expected imo.

Why would I keep going to a shop that only carries +1 items when I'm tenth level or higher. Might as well craft a better item of my own. But let me guess some in the thread either ban or nerf crafting as well right. Or the group has to go on a epic quest to just craft a +1 suit of armor

Andoran

No to nerfing Haste. We don't need a repeat of the Crane Wing Errata fiasco. If you think haste is broken Heroic Finale must seem overpowered.

Andoran

Damian Magecraft wrote:


When I say "I want to earn it" I mean I need to make sure my character scours through libraries, sifts through rumors, questions the artisans, and traces the legends of the Talisman of the San Ke Lei Wang until he pieces all the clues together follows the trail and after many trials obtains it. That item I will value far more highly than if the GM just let me find it the hoard of the Goblin Warrens we just finished cleaning out, or the one I got from dashing down to the corner Mage~mart and plunking down a sack of gold/gems.

I recommend taking a look at Earthdawn. It has just such a system for magic items.

Andoran

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I don't mind researching the history of a specific item. Not every magic item. I want my character to adventure. Not play Secrets & Sages. I don't understand the sheer fear of occasional just giving a item to a player. No questions asked. Do players who restrict items to players also do the same as a player. If not your being a hypocrite.

Andoran

1 person marked this as a favorite.
MattR1986 wrote:


I'm sure you can get along just fine without that +3 to your AC.

Sure right up until the enemy keeps hitting you over and over again. It's not required it does help imo. As when I'm a player I want my AC to be as high as possible. You can get by if your a melee class. A rogue going in for a sneak attack without magic is just so easy to hit. If he survives he either is very lucky or the DM goes easy on him.

At low to mid levels one can get by without magic items. At higher levels it's sucidal not to have magic items. I'm sure that fire Giant that a group is going to fight sure appreciates a group with magical items. In any case it's a difference in playing style. I see the merits of both styles. I just prefer my magic items.

Andoran

While I don't expect anything and everything to be given to me as a player. Neither do I want to beg and plead for everything. I think a bit of give and take on both the player and DM is needed. Out of the two imo the DM has to be more careful. Give to much to a player and it's too easy a game. Don't give enough and a group might be TPK by a strong enemy. Sure some might say "well they should retreat". Smart parties will. More often than not they fight to the better end.I play D&D to have fun and kick behind. Not to have to relive the daily worries of real life.

The APS or at least some of them are so underpowered. The NPC design so poor that even a non-optimized party at later levels can do well. I find that I have to upgrade the monsters or the party members just mo through everything. Even with intelligent monsters using tactics.

Andoran

swoosh wrote:


Good thing I didn't say that (hell, no one did!). Refusing to allow a player to pick up an item to keep him competitive is though, yes. Leaving a fighter gimped because allowing him to upgrade his exotic weapon would be too "unrealistic" or making sure the monk can't pick up his amulet has nothing to do with "earning" anything (because, again, no one even brought up the idea of doing otherwise).

The good thing as a player or group one can refuse to go adventuring against opponents that require specilaized magical equipment. I spend time making a character and backstory. I want to play D&D and have fun. Not roleplay Custers last stand.

Andoran

Depending on the size of the city/village etc that the party is visiting and on what items they want if it can be found I usually allow them to buy it. The NPCs get some interesting toys as well. So imo it balances it out. As well unless the group has a secure spot to at to store money they will for the most part not lug it around. Even with Haversacks. It's still a lot of weight. As well while most gamers adventure to have fun and roleplay I have yet to meet any of the non-profit kind. So unless a DM states from the start that it's going to be a low wealth and magic type of game then players imo will expect some sort of reward. Not interested at all in playing any games where I have to save every damn copper piece or beg and plead for even a +1 sword.

As for DMs their world is law within reason. I won't hesitate to walk away from a table of if the DM is being a unreasonable jerk. If I'm in the wrong I'm in the wrong. Or the dm and my style of playing don't mesh. None of that "I am the DM I am god" crap. As soon as I hear that I don't waste time making a character even if it means taking a cab home. I have noticed a lot of people here acting like the dM can do just about anything because they think the core book gives them the right to. All fine except I suggest you better be running games from your own homes. As I will not hesitate to ask a DM to leave my apartment if they try anything rude or abusive. If that means the game is over so be it. I pay rent and pay bills. If anyone thinks to come into my place and start being unreasonable or even worse kicks me out of a game. Why would I allow the game to continue. In my apartment.

Andoran

Any idea idea when we can order the print edition again?

Andoran

Never played yet would like to. Specfically this archtype. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-kobold/swarm-f ighter . I find the regular fighter boring and the archtype is more interesting. I'm also tempted to play my first level unable to speak common only draconic while roleplaying that he learns the language by listening to the rest of the group.

Andoran

DSmaster21 wrote:


There was some sort of damage done to the first batch shipped so it went on backorder. They are working to get it out to everyone in order of order recieved. Basically you and I will probably just need to be patient and wait a bit longer. Still I feel for those of you that preordered this. I knew I would be waiting because it was already on backordering when I ordered it.

I missed the part about the first batch receiving some sort of damage. Good to know.

DSmaster21 wrote:


I would suggest you have your friend go in under his account and see if it is still on backorder for him it should display most of the info on whether it has shipped or not on the order info page.

He has and it is still on backorder. Hoping to get it soon.

Andoran

I had a friend preorder the book before it was released. Yet have not received it. The order number is 2758158. Is there anyway to see if it was sent?

Andoran

Some domains especially the ones related to the environment are not worth takinf. The abilities they give are underpowered. What is it with the devs love of obscuring must. Was there no other spell that they could give. Some domain abilities are not worth taking or too underpowered and should be given a upgrade. Why does the speak with animal ability from the Animal domain not a at will ability.

Andoran

Here the thing NL. Your not just saying wizards should not be nerfed. It's said in a way with too much gloom, doom and pessimism. Any change=the end of D&D. It's hard to discuss anything when it's cloaked in over emotional hyperbole. Defend yourself to be sure just take it down a emotional level. I agree with other posters. This is a thread about what we want to see changed in PF. Not what we want don't want to see changed. I get the impression that your making a lot of fuss in the hopes that the thread gets locked. You can try but this topic is just going to keep showing up on the forums.despite your best attempts to silence it.

Andoran

NL you can defend your position. Except you refuse to even acknowledge the other position. Anytime someone even remotely suggest any change no matter how small you assume the worst will happen. I can respect someone for defending their position . The constant doom and gloom hyperbole. As well acting like your some sort of victim constantly is well annoying.

Andoran

Excaliburproxy wrote:
Sensitive ROLEplayer wrote:
I'd like a proper roleplaying game back like we had in the Gygax days, not this anime math nonsense!
This is the worst idea. There are easily 8 printing retroclones at any given time. Pathfinder should not be a retroclone.

Agreed. While Im enjoying lookin through my 2E reprints and like much of what Im reading. PF should not go back to that imo. If I want older style of gmaing I can use 2E or any of the retroclones.

Andoran

Kthulhu wrote:

1

Perhaps, but Paizo has made more substantial changes to its system in five years via "errata" between different printings than Chaosium has made in over 30 years across six editions of Call of Cthulhu.

Good point. Yet the seventh edition of CoC is supposed to be different from previous editions so it goes to show even Chaosium is willing to change their rules. A 2E by 2020. Not 2045. I don't want to try a new rpg when I'm 70 years old and in a retirement home.

Andoran

Pan wrote:


No offense but when people say improvements and don't provide a single example I tend to doubt their reasoning.

Well the same could be said for those who don't want any change too. Beyond a fear of change.

Andoran

Pan wrote:


They could make APs forever.

I'm not sure forver. I think that sales will drop on the aps after a certain point. How many aps does one person need? 10,20 30 whern does it end.

Pan wrote:


Also like you point out there is so much good material to use here why are you so eager to hit the reset button?

Never said I was eager for a reset button. There is room for improvement and possibly change on some elements of the game. Maybe major or minor who knows.

Andoran

Steve Geddes wrote:


To be clear - if they do start losing money and if they think PF2 is going to stop that, then I'm all for it. I just dont buy the inevitability argument that often crops up.

Call me a cynic now yet I think a product eventually needs to be replaced. Not saying that PF needs to anytime soon. I do think that eventually they will run out of new material to release. Even with the APS. How many APs does one person need. Were starting to see it with the Bestiaries imo. What is the difference between a ocean or River giant again. A hill, cave or mountain Troll again. They still have a lot of material to offer. I wish they would do a environment series. Or new campaign settings. Getting tired of just Golarian specific stuff. I'm nito sure if the Stategy guide is going to be wroth it.

Skeld wrote:


Considering that PFRPG was originally built on a customer base that were holdovers from and discontented with the 3.5e->4e transition and how it is built on the 3.5e OGL, I think anyone that thinks the hypothetical PF2e is going to be a dramatically and fundamentally different game and/or will toss away the OGL is not being realistic.

Good luck to Paizo on trying to sell a second edition with no changes and with mostly rehashed material a second time around. It's not going to do as well imo. Unlike the current version there is not going to be a 4E that drives 3.5 fans away from Wotc to Paizo. With no major changes fans will stick with 3.5 and the current edition of Paizo. I can understand and respect not wanting to see anything change. Tradition and keeping the spirit of the rpg is all fine and well. It's not going to be enough for me to spend 100-120$ a second time around.

Andoran

Steve Geddes wrote:


I reject the implicit assumption that, without producing a new edition, Paizo will not remain profitable into the future. The only argument I've seen as to why "A new edition is inevitable" have been from people pointing to other companies who don't have that model.

Either they keep making the same or more money with the current edition. Once they start to lose money and consistently lose it they may have to. I have alot of the books. I rather not upgrade. Yet their are issues with the rules that need to be addressed. And which keep some gamers away. I know a few 3.5. diehard that won`t touch PF. Myself I can`t go back to 3.5. My Babarian has to have RAge popwers dammit!

Steve Geddes wrote:


In my mind, the real soon-to-be current threat to that business model is D&D:Next. I think Paizo have clearly won the majority share of players from the 3.5 era. Going forward though, as those players drop off the scene, maybe D&D:Next will be successful at capturing the new fans and the balance of games being played might shift. If that happened, I could see a PF2 as a necessary response (being the most popular game is a good way to ensure that selling supplements and adventures is a profitable way forward. If that popularity were challenged over a long period of time, it might become less so).

We will see. 5E may be the first edition of D&D I don`t buy. Not because of the rules. Just new edition fatigue. It has to knock my gaming socks off. Try to address some issues 3.5 had. More importantly their goal of one edition for all D&D player with the promised modularity better still be part of it. Otherwise I have PF and 2E to keep me happy.

Andoran

I get the point that one may have to upgrade due to lack of finding players. Yet unless the area you live in favors a new edition or a certain edition of D&D it`s usually not a issue imo.

Andoran

Since when is seeing some elements of a rpg changed equal disliking all the rules. Would I like to see martials espcially fighters get nice things sure. Do I dislike or hate all the rules. No. I'm not one of the fanbase who keeps playing D&D hates it and comes here to complain. Is that the new defense used to prevent any change of the rules. Either a fan likes the rule as is 1000% or they don't like the rules. That makes alot of sense. I hate eating liver therefore I must hate all eating all kinds of meat.

Nathanael Love wrote:


I'm just asking that they continue to publish new pathfinder books for me to purchase without creating a new edition where I have to purchase a ton of reprints without any new material.

You keep bringing up "Paizo forces me to buy more books" as a counter argument.

Who exactly is going to come to your house and force you to buy anything? I see this same argument whenever a new book is published. First with the APG, then the ARG. Your only forced if someone actually holds a gun to your head. It's not Paizo fault or whatever their 2E ends up being if fans cannot control their spending habits. That's like eating at mcdonalds all the time then complaining it's their fault that one gains weight or gets health problems.

Almost as bad as " I have to buy books because as a DM I can't say no to my players" argument. As if Paizo fault that they can't refuse player requests at the table Or is in the wrong for doing what successful rpg companies are supposed to do.

Andoran

The problem about a rules compendium is if Paizo makes it a part of the official rules or not. If they do fans might complain about power creep, rules bloat or Paizo trying to make money off of them with a new book. They make the rules unofficial and fans will complain that they are not as well as the same arguments above. I'm glad I don't design rpgs. We gamers just don't know what we want.

Andoran

I would be very surprised if in a new or slightly updated edition there will be no reprints. They reprinted stuff like VOP and other rules from 3.5. Not entire books yet they did. Again it needs to be repeated Paizo is and never was a non-profit organization. They created the company to work on a product they enjoy as well as to make a profit off it. No one at least the smart entrepreneurs start a company without the intention of it making money at some point.

I don't understand the logic. Paizo can release either a new edition or a slighlty tweaked one. Yet they can't do anything new or innovative or different that envolves anyone spending a single extra penny. Or thy threathen a boycott. So Paizo has to invest time in playtesting, printing and paying employees etc. Yet they can't be expected to profit from it. That's crazy and insane. One might as well ask the Paizo employees to work for free. I'm sure their starving families and piles of bills that add up will thank you for it.

Both postiions on the topic should be heard in this thread. Both from those who want to see change and those who do not. I respect thgose who do not want to see anything changed. Allow those who do the right to post what they want to see changed. Without all the doom and gloom pity parade hyperbole

Andoran

Pan wrote:


I assume they assume the worst because some of the wish lists here are pretty radical. Not sayin, just sayin.

Good point.

Yet I'm assuming the same thing was said by 2e players about the changes in 3E. I don't think that rehashed edition with new cover and interior art will sell this time around. With gamers having access to 3.5 and PF paizo will need something new to make players try a future edition. In the end gamers complain about a rpg not having enopugh changes or too much changes. It's a catch-22. Damed if you do and damned if you don't.

At the same time we as fans can't assume that something new will mean the doom of D&D either.

Andoran

There's nothing wrong with asking paizo to not change anything. Nothing wrong with asking them to try something new. Both positions should be listened too IMO. Without all the doom and gloom hyperbole.

Andoran

You do realize that no one is forcing you to buy anything right. Or be happy about it. Paizo should not be held hostage to fans who don't want anything changed. I'm not saying it had to be different like 4E. I'm not wasting money on rehash with new cover art because if tradition or a fear if change. I'm done with paizo if they don't at least include some new material. Why do some fans automatically assume the worst.

There are plenty of versions of D&D for those who don't want anything to change that can still be played.

Andoran

I echo the general sentiment of wanting to see SC return. I get that they possibly want to make a newer system. Yet imo they should do a PF version. More of a fanbase with fans who liked the 3.5 version. Myself I don't disallow 3.5 material. Just to lazy to convert. So if someone else can do the converting for me so much the better.

Andoran

When is the book being released. ? Is it mix of end if April ?

Andoran

We play Saturday afternoons from 1 pm to 6pm . Send me a pm for more details.

Andoran

Calybos1 wrote:

Frankly, money IS a factor. Buying a bunch of new books really does present an obstacle for a significant portion of gamers.

It's not simply a matter of "Hey, the new edition fixes problem X and adds feature Y, so everyone should get it!" The reply "How much will it cost me?" is legitimate, and a savvy company like Paizo knows that perfectly well.

No one is saying money is not a factor. Except paizo is not a non/ profit organization. It's just that to me at least that their seems to be a misconception that any company trying to make a profit=bad. A company can't very well keep taking a loss in profit. Simply because buying another edition might be expensive for some of the fanbase. Which with the online srd is really not going to be a issue. With it bring free.

Andoran

Pan wrote:


I know you said "never will" but there are perfectly sensible reasons for PFS to have its own rules. The PFS rules are there to provide for a uniform experience. This helps account for players trading tables often. Some rules that could be disruptive one way or another have been removed from play for sake of smooth running. A new XP system has been implemented to help facilitate running organized play.

Basically, at home you have a lot more liberties available to you to arbitrate your own games. You also don't have to fit a time slot or uniform session. Making all the rules uniform would mean many of these home nuances would go away because everything would have to fit organized play format. I would rather not tie GM and designers hands this way.

Dammit Pan you made some good and logical points. I see why the rules are different. Still I do think imo everyone should use the same set of rules.

Scavion wrote:


And especially since WotC's next move is modular play supporting multiple different types of playstyle, I would be very surprised if Paizo doesn't try to do it better since that is a damned appealing idea if I do say so myself. They've also withdrawn from having a heavier rules style gameplay. Skills are vaguer, emphasizing creative play.

If Wotc can manage to produce a edition that is modular it would imo put them ahead of their competition. Espcially if they produce products without stats. With the ability to then download stats from their site as needed depending on the edition being played.

Andoran

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Either in a blog or the core book for a 2E or 1.5 admit that one of their goals is to make money and a profitable edition. To silence one and for all the gamers in the hobby that seem to think that profit=bad. How and what exactly are they supposed to pay their employees with. Or pay rent. Or publish the new books like the APG and the ARG. Do you think JJ or anyone else that works for Paizo is loosing sleep because they publish a profitable edition of a rpg. As for the whole computer, rpg, car companies that make new product equals scam naive line of reasoning. Well I hope that your still driving a car that is at least five years old and a use a cellphone just as old. Otherwise you just lost any moral high ground. Accusing a company of scamming anyone while driving a newer model of car. With a Ipad 2 or 3 tucked under one arm. A Iphone 5S attached at your hip is being not only a hypocrite. As far as I'm concerned a poster child of hypocrites.

Crafting. The game attempts to emulate crafting in terms of how long it actually took to make a suit of armor. D&D is not a historical accurate rpg. With ways to reduce the time with feats and magic no reason why anything espcially regular items should take so long to build. If I was playing Ars Magica it would make sense not D&D. It's alos ot worth crafting anything because the amount of time it takes vs the amount of GP is imo hardly worth it. Same thing with skills. Make 12 ranks in Bluff count for something more than just a better chance to bluff. Give me more options the more skill points I spend in a skill. Faster to bluff someone. Easier to bluff a group or in combat. Bluff a group of people etc.

Giving certain weapons better advantages such as guns. Guns historically changed the face of the battlefield once they were safer and easier to use. So did bows then crossbows. If one weapon gets to target something other than regular AC it has to be done across the board to other approriate weapons.

I'm firmly in the camp that martials deserve nice things. I'm not asking for them to be the equal of casters. I do think that Fighter at least need a upgrade. Before anyone says "no you can't that breaks the immersion of the game". Why is it okay for Wizards and to a lesser extent clerics and druids to bend the laws of reality to their will. Yet seeing a Fighter leap from roof to roof like Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon suddenly involve a loss of immersion.

Feats. Fix Feats. No feat taxes. If I have to take sunder and improved sunder I want more than just a lack of AOO as a benefit. Have the improved version give a character a better chance to sunder. Stuff like prone shooter should not be a feat. Make them scale like spells over time. Another reason I don't play Fighters is because the bread and butter feats are just so damn boring. Yay dodge gives a +1 to
AC. Man I really have something awesome to look forward to.

While I despise Vanacian Casting I see why it needs to be in the game. I never liked and still don't liek the reasons given about casters forgetting spells. No reason they can't offer it and other optional casting systems side by side like spell points.

Alignments keep them as well. I want to see in point form what I can do with a alignment. Not some vague generalization that really says everything and nothing at all. Can I attack a enemy by suprose I wan a yes or no answer. Can I steal something from someone else I want a yes or no answer. THe Palladium set of rules has it's issues. It's the only alignment system where I never ever had trouble at the table. As well classes dependent on alignment like Paladins should have the option of being lawful good or not. No it's not going to ruin the game either. Nor do care about tradition. I have seen here and elsewhere where DMs allow players to take the alignment of their gods. THe hobby has not ended overnight and it never will.

Home games, society and tournament games all should use the same rules. I don't like how PF society uses one set and my game another. I never understand and never will why they are different.

Errata should be fixed at the source. Not just by the fans. No reason why Paizo can't first do errata nbefore asking the fans to do it. We truly don't need another repeat of the Great Crane Wing Fiasco of 2014.

Whatever the edition to be created It must have all levels of play in mind from the start. No releasing lwevles 1-20 then 5 years later Mythic levels. Espcially if 5E allows all elves wit the core.

Give the DM and players ways to reward thinking outside of the box. In yesterdays game. I l jumped off the roof the hut to attack a Vrock. It was either do that. Or make a hole in a stone hut or climb done. Instea all I ended up doing was getting a AOO. For doing something cool and courageous. Sure the DM could have given me a bonus yet again the system imo does not reward outside of the box thinking. In a newer edition that imo truly needs to change.

A release date of withing the next 10 years or so. Not 2045. I'm going to be 70 or 80 by then. I probably will no longer be playing rpgs at that age. And seriously guys 2045. Why not when Buck Rogers body is found frozen in space.

Lastly I need more than just a rehash with new cover art to get me to buy any other edition of PF. Already some in the hobby refuse to play the current version thinking it just 3.5. with house rules. I don't see a 1.5 with little or no changes doing that well with fans able to just from 3.5., and PF 1E

Andoran

thejeff wrote:


Of course, that's a large part of the problem with RPGs as a business. Once you've bought the system you can go on and play for years without buying anything else.
We've been playing CoC for decades off and on, using mostly 2nd and 3rd edition. I think one of the newer players picked up a more recent (5th?) version. They're all sufficiently similar that there's no need to replace them. And we like them, so the chances of switching to a total rewrite are slim.

That's the beauty of it though. One does not have to switch to the lastest version of one does not want to. Sometimes rules can only be kept unchanged for so long before fans stop buying and move on to other systems. Palladium Books is a good example. They used to be in the top ten alongside Wotc and White wolf. They refuse to implement major changes. With the result that they fans moved on to other rpgs. I get the point about too much change driving away the fanbase. Not enough changes can do the same thing. Mind you then one has to buy as many books as possible. If you wait too long buying books for a older version can get expensive.

Andoran

CoC needed some newer material. Only so many times a company can rehash the same system. As well they face competion from Realms and Trails of f Cthulhu. The same rules with new cover art were just not going to cut it this time around.

For me to get a PF 1.5 it would need major or if not major significant changes. As again I will not be buying a rehashed set of rules with new cover art. People mention backwards compability imo that ship has sailed for the most part. DMs who called long and loud for material from 3.5. to be used in PF are now probably the sames ones going "PF and only PF material at table and nothing else". So while some want to use previous material most imo do not. I'm not saying making the current material incompitable. I want a 1.5 goals to be more than just a cosmetic change. As well Paizo is a business not a charity or a no-profit. They need to make a profit to survive as well. If the current version of the rules no longer makes them a profit they can't keep publishing the same ones at a loss just to make some of the fanbase happy.

@Snorter I'm not saying don't defend yourself on the boards. Reference the posts not the poster. I have been having discussions with
kyrt-ryder and others. They quoted my posts. They did not specfically target me as a poster. Have a disagreement with me as much as you like. Target what I post and not me as a poster.

kyrt-ryder wrote:
Thanks for the open mind Memorax. That's all we're asking, that you keep mechanics with mechanics (including social skill checks) and leave roleplay with roleplay.

Sometimes one can disagree with someone else and still be part of the hobby. While engaging online and real life debates. Or that sometimes I might be wrong and need to admit that. I'm 40 years old The days of me engaging in a endless "I'm right your wrong. No your wrong I'm right" are behind me.

Andoran

TOZ wrote:
memorax wrote:
With respect until the devs actually do anything about those issues. Taking a good hard look at them is nothing but a feel good PR exercise. Makings fans think something is being done. Without nothing changing at all or very little. So until some actual change makes it into print it's all smoke and mirrors imo

Sounds like the Pathfinder Beta. :D

*jets off*

The beta is old news lets not get into that again.

Andoran

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I will concede that maybe my approach to stats is harsh. I may change it the next time I run a another AP. If a player wants to have low stats I will encourage. No extra penalties. As long as the player dumping stats accepts that he has a smaller chance the first few levels of succeeding at social encounters than one who takes a higher chance. A point was made about skills being able to boost the odds at later levels. In my new game it will. I still think stay dumping is not the bedt option for a player.

And Snorter knock it off with "menorax said this or did you see what menorax wrote" posts. Your attempt at trying to get a reaction from me is do obvious even the dead can see it. No one else here had engaged in that type of flamebaiting.

Andoran

With respect until the devs actually do anything about those issues. Taking a good hard look at them is nothing but a feel good PR exercise. Makings fans think something is being done. Without nothing changing at all or very little. So until some actual change makes it into print it's all smoke and mirrors imo

Andoran

Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Oh HELL no.

With other thingd broken in the rpg people think Kobolds are broken. Really Kobolds. (gets off the from the floor after falling down and laughing so hard he has tears in his eyes). Okay if the OP says so.

Andoran

Ì can respect that not everyone agress with me so Im just going to bow out of this thread. Good discussion everyone and good gaming.

Andoran

kyrt-ryder wrote:


Just don't tell me what personality my character has if you expect me to ever play with you, and if you ever play at my table don't b&@!# at the rest of my players for roleplaying their characters as opposed to playing some stupid numbers on a paper.

Fine I won`t.

If I play a non comabt class in your game I`m going to consider myself as good as the fighter in hitting and doin damage then. Since numbners on a sheet are meaningless and any penalties as well. I don`t need to have a high str I can just roleplay having been cursed by a evil good from birth as being weak.

Andoran

I suggest some players here never play in any Gurps or Hero system games. There is no roleplaying negatives stats or disadvantages away with roleplaying or skill points. If one builds a Superman style character with a weakness to leads or a character with a bad body odour. There is no "I know I have a weakness to lead but I roleplay that away by wearing a necklace made out of lead a few hours a day". Or "I know my character stinks but I roleplay that away by washing in bleach and tomato juice on a regular basis". It pretty much is written in the book. A disadvantage is a negative thing for a player. If it stops being negative the players loses any benefits from the disadvatage.

If a player with a weakness to lead is a minor one and gets 5 extra points to spend during character creation. Either he roleplays the disadvatage or loses the 5 points. Having to alter his character no exceptions. Or if a player has 5 experience points can buy off the disadvantage. That's why I tend to like point based systems more. No loopholes like roleplaying to get around a characters negative aspects.

Andoran

Bill Dunn wrote:


What's unrealistic about it? The low charisma character has invested in training to overcome his natural deficiencies. He's not getting a better modifier to use diplomacy for free or just because the player role plays better - he's getting it because he sunk a lot of work into it in the form of skill ranks.

As the Jeff says how often does a player build a character with low cha

with the intention of being the face in the party. It's like I want to engage in social encounters but I'm going to dumop my primary stat to do so and hop0e that skill points can make up the low stat penalty. No more often than it's to get more points to spend into other attributes then wanting to be as good as the guy with high cha. Then cry foul when they get penalized.

Bill Dunn wrote:


Piling on an additional -5 seems pretty shady to me. The low charisma character is already hampered with the lower modifier compared to someone else of similar training. If the naturally talented guy with the high charisma decided to just get by on his good looks without actually spending any effort, that's his hard luck if my diligence enables me to excel past him despite less inherent talent.

For routine social encounters I don't penalize a player. A player trying to convince a king to lend them a army or reinforcements is not suddenly going to ignore a low cha character lack of social graces or looks because he has a high ranks in diplomacy. He can still try to convince the king. The character with a good cha and skill ranks stands a better chance. Again no cheating the system with low attributes and skill points at my table. A player wants to build a character that can do it all then don't dump stats. Which I tell my players before any new campaign starts. Low stats don't get a free pass at my table with skill points or roleplaying

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