I was going to mention that the Champs devs incorporated a power skill yet another poster has done so already. They did make it a rule at least in the 5E revised core book that one of the ways to speed up combat was to have low level thugs be taken out with one good solid hit or rolling a good attack role. Even before that I was just using common sense when it came to running fights. Mechanon was not going to go down without a fight. A regular guy or group robbing a bank the battle was over quickly.
They also advise to only allow important NPCs to make recoveries. So no need to worry about the bank robbers recovering from damage. Again before the included it in the rules I used common sense.
Rules wise I get that the complexity of some of the rules is not for everyone yet imo the only supers rpg that allows me to model any charatcer from comics. With the flexiability of the Multipower and VPP rules any character can be built. Even then unlike many supers rpgs some powers actually have labels warning the players and person running the game that power XYZ is more effective than some. With some outright labelled as being unbalanced enough to alter a entire scenario like VPPs. It's all clearly marked. Which cannot be said of every supers rpg on the market.
As wellwhat drew me to Champs more than other super rpg backgrounds is that unlike the rest of them it has a fully fleshed background. Doctor Doom clone check. Ultron Clone check. Evil Cobra style organization except more comptent and with better resources check.
My Vote is Champions powered by the Hero system. Anyone who says that you need a PHD to play the game is wrong. If you graduated from high school you can do the math. It dose take a more work than some other supers rpgs on the market. Yet out of all of them imo the most versatile and complete ones on the market.
Thanks for answering Mendeth. For a second there I was wondering i I should have had a more provacative title like "Is lingering performance broken" to get any response.
Talking it over with some of my co-worker who play PF they pretty much say the same thing. Shadowbard should not be covered by the feat. Virtuoso performance should be covered by the feat.
I have the feat http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/lingering-performance. I'm wondering how such a feat affect spells that duplicate these two bardic spells. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/v/virtuoso-performance as well as http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/shadowbard . Would the feat still apply to the second Bardic performance?
Say my character as a move action uses Inspire Courage than cast the first spell. On his next turn he uses another type of perforamce Dirge of Doom by means of the spell. I know if my character stops using Inspire Courage it's affect last for another two rounds. Would the effect of second Bardic performance also continue for two more rounds once the spell ends?
Steve Geddes wrote:
I used to think so as well. Except having been bothered one too many times in a gaming store and online from edition warriors well its annoying as well. Then again im not impressed by gamers online and in public who are not interested in a discussion only a feel good validation style of discussion leaves me once again unimpressed.
Agreed and seconded.
I am not at all impressed with Nerf Rage and Trolling. Bot in the least. The amount of times I have heard and been subjected to it on the internet and in rea life. I have no tolarence for it any longer. If a person wants to discuss something they don't like about a product without frothing about the mouth and being negative about what they are talking about it. I will listen. If not I walk away or ignore you. Obn more than one occasion at my LGS I have had to shut down edition warring. Throw freedom of speech in my face all you want. Nothing in the constitution says I have to listen to you. Nor am I impressed at the "fake innocence" of people when asked politely to stop don;t so when you get angry can't understand why you do.
What I would really like to see is a hardcover Guide to Varisia. There is so much information on the province scattered across so many different books it would be great to see a revised campaign book dedicated to the setting (with some new stuff as well the old to fill in the gaps).
Seconded. I too would like to see a hardcover guide to Varisia.
Whenever the gaming community says something is broken I take it with a galaxy sized grain of salt. 99% of the time whatever is said to be broken is not really broken. Rather than just look like the bad guy for banning something the term broken was created so they can imo rationlize not allowing something in the game. Another example it's not because plastic bags cost a nickle that a person complains it's about the principle. When in reality they are too cheap to spend a nickle to save the environment. Now I'm not saying that once in a blue moon something in a rpg is nopt broken. Sometimes I wonder what the developer was thinking of when the allowed something in a rpg. By and large though everytime I hear the word "broken" by a member of the gaming community it's anything but.
I do wonder why some in the hobby think that if the players don't bend over backwards to accomodate the DM that suddenly it means that no one will ever game again. I can tell you threatening to cancel the game if we don't follow the party line is going to get you laughed at in my neck of the woods. What all of a sudden DMs are part of some super secret order whose are limited in number. Please don't make me laugh. If gamer abc does not want to run the game anymore because his or her players refuse to follow his exact words to the then they find someone else who will. It may take weeks or months yet one can find another person to run the game. If not someone at the table who is a player will. That;s how I became a DM. Became tired of a playing with two bad Dms and decided to become one and I did.
I would be very careful before threatening a table of gamers that if it's no your way than the game ends. First make sure it's at your place. Otherwise you and your books will be standing outside in the street. Second better make sure you own all the books. A DM that tried that type of BS will suddenly find all the books he borrowed to use from his game from a player more than likely no longer able to use them. Third and more importantly if the game falls apart because of it word of mouth will get around in the gaming community and he or she will be blacklisted. Rightfully so.
Having been on both sides of the screen I try to work both with players and DMs. Asking why something banned or not allowed is not taboo at my table. Asling me over and over again is. If a DM refuses to give me more than just "its because Im the Dm that why" I just shut down as a player. I do minimal amount of roleplaying and running my character as possible. No I dont ruin the dms game I just refuse to waste time any energy if the DM refuses to exaplin everything.
From my experience I have less problems when players give me feedback then less. If my encounters are too railroady Im not going to learn that if my players never tell me anything. I think a balance is needed. Not to mention yes its hard to find a person to run the game. Yet players are the ones who have the true power over the dm. Anger and alienate enough members at the table and what you have left is DM solitaire. A DM may have control over how he builds the world. He has less than zero control preventing players leaving en masse if he tries to impose his will unfairlly too often.
As for deserving special consideration for making and creating a word. Spending time and money on books to do. A big hell no from me. No one is forcing anyone to either run a game. Or buy material needed to run a game. Or go out of their way to create a game world. THe DM ultimately takes on that responsability. Which was never forced on him unless he unwisely decides to run a game because he was pressured by others.
Unless your being forced at gunpoint no one is forced to do anything. Im both running and playing in a PF game at this time. I choose to take the time to run the game. The time spent was my choice. The money spent again is my choice. spent 10 years making up your own game world. I respect that. Im am not ginving you or anyone else who does something like that extra consideration. Or will treat you any different. Because again you took it upon yourself to do the extra work.
I just wonder if we will get new classes. Many of the classes in the deluxe edition are already in the companion. We have according to the table of contents:
Will they remain the same. Altered slightly. New. Granted it's early yet we need more information. I'm still keeping a open mind for now. As for the APG classes and archtypes I say why not. Even if I'm mot a huge fan of PF gun rules.
I'm going to wait and see and read reviews about the deluxe version before possibly purchasing. That being said imo sales of the companion were poor because of a lack of any advertising or big push from GR. I knew about it because I'm a fan o M&M and check their site regularly. Otherwise after 2007 Freeport was shoved aside and imo ignored. I was surprised to never see anyone from GR come here and other forums and try to drum up more interest in the product. Beyond myself and anoter player in my gaming circle no one knew about he Pirates Guide or about the companion. Please also incorporate all errata into the deluxe version. We don't need another Game of Thrones fiasco.
Wolfgang Baur wrote:
I'm still skeptical that it will. The Pirates guide was never about having any rules information it. Already on it's own without the companion it's a pretty comprehensive book. The Companion is for people like me who are too lazy to write up our own material. otherwise I can take the pirates guide and drop it say into a Earthdawn game and use it with that system.
I just wonder if they can deliver enough new material to validate the 100$ entry fee and justify the deluxe treatment.
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Without a freely-accessible Freeport Pathfinder book, GR doesn't have a core Pf setting to work off of.
That's the thing though. They do already have a core setting book out there. The Pirates guide to Freeport is essentially all setting. With no mechanics in case say a new edition of D&D would be released too quickly. The Freeport companion is the guide with all the rules and mechanics. The decision to leave the Pirates guide with no rules was imo a smart one. It allows anyone to pick up the book and use it with any set of rpg rules as well as any backgroud.
So while I want more GR PF books I do agree with Jreyst that releasing the same book twice with the same information when it's already been converted to PF rules and still in print is imo just strange to me. I would have preferred something new or the Advanced Bestiary.
I'm in the same boat as you. In that I have both books also. So even with a possible 25% new material I too would need to find out more information before I pledge 130$. As well is it only going to be available through Kickstarter? Or will there be a cheaper version available in stores or at least through Paizo. My only hope if the book does well is to see a full color version of a update Advanced Bestiary. We do have one yet it's still 3.5 and I would like to see it updated to PF.
I'm not telling people not to get the book. Just that between the excellant Pirates Guide and Freeport companion I'm not sure how much more they can make the book better.
I'm going to pass on this one. Unless they can guarantee at least 25% or more of new material I already own the Pirates guide to Freeport as well as the Freeport Companion which already converts the setting to PF rules. I can't justify spending that much of a pledge on something that I may already own.
I thought GR already did something similar a few years ago. With this product: http://www.amazon.com/The-Pirates-Guide-Freeport-Roleplaying/dp/1932442723/ ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1362087044&sr=8-2&keywords=freeport . I thought the whole reason for that product was to avoid putting any stats in the book in case a new edition was released. Not sure if I will buy it. Wish them the best of luck. I would prefer a deluxe full color version of the Advanced Bestiary convereted to Pathfinder.
Until I decide to ever work on a homebrew setting will be using either Forgotten Realms or Golarion as my world to game in. so I'm keeping the magic shops in the game. I may restrict it in my homebrew yet to be honest never saw a problem with them. So far no player in my group or being a player in another game. Have never seen anyone run rampant with magic shops or see a game fall apart because of access to magic items. After all if the pc have access to those shops so do npcs and in certain areas intteligent monsters.
How is that getting carried away. I go to other forums where if a poster does get out of line one of the flagging options include something along the lines of "trolling/flamebaiting" as a option that can be chosen. I think if they actively included it as a flagging option the amount of traffic in terms of negative threads imo would decrease. It's obvious we can't really police ourselves and some people go out of their way to cause trouble so why not. That would apply to myself. If I get out of line I deserve to be reported to the mods.
I think we all do to a certain extent too. Except unlike some we know that it's not going to happen in a discussion forum. If I for example start a thread that is titled Sahugain are useless monsters. And start my op with a statement along the lines of that never should have never been included in the Bestiary let alone have a page of ink wasted on them. The majority of posters would imo probably disagree with me. I would not then lash out at my critics for disagreeing with me or if the initial thread gets locked start the same one again and again in the hope that the majority would agree with me.
If a poster does not want to hear from both sides at least have the decency as a poster to word the title of the thread correctly. For example Those who dislike Magic Shoppes post her or something similar. Seems kind of counterproductive to have a open endedd thread where one only wants to hear from one side.
I have nothing against anyone who wants to debate both the flaws and merits of PF. It's when a thread is created to that effect and the op really just wants validation about the OP. Not really interested in a actual debate. And lashes out at posters who post against his op. Then posting the same thing over and over again reworded differently. Debate is all good on a fourm. Threads that are essentially broken records after awhile get annoying. Even then at least don't attack or insult those who diagree with you. I'm not a saint on these boards and have been involved in a few threads where I have said a few things I regret towards another psoter. That's the difference between myself and the op. I'm not proud of my behavior. The op keeps getting worse and worse as time goes on and seems proud of it imo.
Fake Healer wrote:
Here the thing though 99% of the op posts always seem to be about things he hates about the game. Which on the surface seems like a decent topic of conversation.
Except he start a thread where it looks like he wants to hear from both sides on the topic. He does not. He wants everyone saying that his op is correct and that everyone else is wrong. The op is seeking validation and only validation. Wants to hear from posters and only posters thta validate his position. And gets angry and insulting to boot when posters counter his op. It's not the forum piling on one guy. It's one guy going out of his way to post the same topic over and over again. While rewording thinking were not going to notice it. Don't beleive me check SS post history.
So ultimely another thread from the op ends in a exercise in futility. Not even truly wanting to debate. Seeking validation and a unrealistic hope that RAW maybe rewritten to fit his game.
Historical realism in D&D let alone PF. In a world where there is dragons the size of jets that can fly. Beholders that are essentially hovering intelligent laser platforms. Mind Flayers that eat brains and somehow don't get eliminated in a world wide purge and someone wants to bring up historical realism. PF and by extension D&D was and is not historically realistic. Want that play Ars Magica. While D&D and PF borrows some tropes and elements from medieval society it's anything but. If anyone can find a textbook on medieval history that includes really dragons and beholders post a link I would be interested.
For myself I keep the standard magical shoppe and item creation feats in the game. If I were to remove them I would be at least making sure that their would be a source rare or common that allows one to have access to items. Otherwise what the point of collecting gp. I adventure to hav fun as a player. Complete quests and also buy stuff.
Well Im glad Wotc is releasing PDFs again. Anyone care to comment on which 2E modules are worth buying.
As for Pax and Gorbacz no matter what anyone says both are going to dislike Wotc. No matter what. Both could get a free lifetime PDF subscription and either or both would find something wrong with it. Like "what I got a free Pdf and Wotc expects me to buy my own ink." Since Wotc is not only supposed to give a person free Pdfs but also provide ink. Or something similar. It a unreasoning hatred. Dont waste any time trying to deal with someone with a unreasoning hatred.
Not even 24 hours pass and were back to the same thread topic just reworded again. I am starting to agree with other posters. Shallowsoul hates 905 of PF and anything that gives pc a advantage he can't completly control. So I'm assuming it's not really a thread where the op wants any actual feedback and just validation of his op. Still I will respond.
Imo arcane caster were always powerful whatever edition. Previous editions they had low ac and low hp yet played properly in any edition they were and are powerful imo. It's just that with 3E and 3.5/PF with the concentration check, right feats and spell choices it became even more difficult to fight arcane caster. PC or Npc. Not to say with the right tactics a spellcaster is impossible to beat. They can be yet in the hands of a imaginative and smart person its' hard to do.
Here the thing though the extinct creatures alive before the written word in a homebrew. After. The extinction happned when the books was being written. it's something that needs to be taught of before character creation. IF i know some sort of catacylsm wiped out angels I'm not going to take spells that include any celestial compnents. Or be remtely interested on a book on celestials. Unless it allows me to bring them back from extinction.
If a creature is extinct in a homebrew then that means a arcane caster has no access to the extnct creature as a compnent. If purple worms don't exist in a game world no reason to have it a part of a spell component puch. As well any spells requiring some sort of purple worm component either no longer exist or have to be houseruled by the DM to use another. It's also not the fault of RAW. If your going to start houseruling certain creatures and by extension their components it needs to be addressed at the table before the game exists.
My question is why would their even be a tome detailing a extinct creature in the first place. It's like here is this creature and how you can use it as a component. Yet no way to use it a a component since it no longer exists. Kind of like a bait and switch move on the DMs part. Never ever saw a game table where this was ever a issue in all my years in the hobby.
One of the issues imo with high level play is the bookkeeping. I'm usually a laid back DM yet when I'm running a campaign that goes past 10th level I insist that players learn all their feats, spells abilites etc.. well. Not memorized yet no flipping through books or character sheets as it slows down the game play. If one of the players has Mirror Image as a spell and at his level he can have three duplicates he has to know he has three of them. Or the person playing a arcane caster loses a turn. It may sound harsh and I don't like making a player skip a turn yet it's the only way to really get players with divine and arcane casters to not slow down the game. A cleric wants to summon a monster he or she has ro have a write up of said monster on a sheet of paper or index card ready to go. No last minute copying of stats out of the Bestiary at the table. Same goes with a DM. preparing a lot of stuff ahead of time helps make running a game quicker too.
I have seen it as a problem with almsot every edition of D&D. High level 2E also required divine and arcane casters to know their spells imo.
As usual it's never Shadwosoul fault on anything.
Apparently others and I can't read his posts. We can read fine actually.
Next he will say he was misquoted.
After that it's not his posting style it's us for reading between the lines.
It's just anything and everything to shift blame when he goes too far in a thread.
As I said if a poster wants to post in a agressive style guranteed to get a neative response that same poster needs to man up and take responsability for what he posted. Sorry but no it's not everyone else. It's bad enough he insulted the entire board imo now we are to blame for it.
My issue Alaryth and it's not just with Shallowsoul but some posters on this forum in general. Is that a some of them start a thread say for example "Is power attack broken". Making it seem like they want to hear from both sides. Wanting to hear from those that agree or disqgree if the feat is broken. When more often than not it's the side that disagrees that a feat or anything rlse is broken they get angry and frustrated about that. Not because the op wanted to have a debate. The op wanted validation of his position that Power Attack is broken. Nothing anyone says will change that even when it's numerically proven it's not. James Jacobs could chime and say 'no it's not broken" and the Op would still say it's broken.
I'm all for having different play styles. That being said no play style is perfect. Too many posters approach this forum with that thinking in mind. While also wanting validation and a echo chamber to that affect. Hell having RAW written to match their play style because if it nots RAW and the devs are wrong. I'm also not saying that one can't question RAW or the devs. Take a look at what happened with the Monk because it was imo one of the rare times the Devs imo were wrong.
Having a debate on a forum is interesting and fun. Coming on a forum as a poster and expecting to just hear what you want to hear, ignoring anything that you disagree with even when it's factually wrong well that poster is not interested in debating anything contructively. I have had my fill of posters who come on a forum expect to hear what they want to hear in fact sometimes demand it. Not to mention write in a very abrasive style coupled with their posts coming across as their opinion is the one true way to play D&D and the only way take it or leave it. While denying they don't post that way.
Shadowsoul likes to cone on this forum and doing the equivalent of posting away with both barrels ablazing than acts like he can't understand why his posts cause such a negstive reaction. If one comes on a forum and writes in such a manner that it's going to cause a reaction well as a poster one can't get offended if it causes a negative reaction. Which applies to myself as sometimes I have been in a few verbal sparring matches and said a few things I should not have said. Except I was never crazy enough to come to this site and say that this community is not a majority and they don't count. We do actually. This forum has the imo the largest concentration of Pathfinder players. I could understand if this topic had shown up on say rpg.net or another forum. Posting on Pathfinder central so to speak and saying what Shallwsoul did was kind of insulting to everyone here. Including himself imo.
Agrred and seconded with Chemlak last post.
Anyone notice how all of sudden we are the bad guys in this thread. It's can't possibly be because of Shadowsoul abrasive style or his overall " "if you don't agree with me, get out of my thread" message. Now he is trying to play the innocent victim. With respect a posters come on the message boards engages in abrasive behavior in nearly every post. Then wonders why posters are taking issue wth that really. It's come to that.
Really and when you post this:
The above pretty much tells it all. Unless your going to tell us that it was a mistake and/or you were misquoted.
If we agree with your posts were your best friends and love us as posters. When we dare to disagree and contradict were strangers and are opinions don't matter. I have seen guys like you all over forums and outside of forums. They like you me and others when we agree with them. When we don't they dislike us and want to have nothing to do with us.
Of course you would know players from everywhere. And by sheer coincidence they all feel the same way do the same topics I'm sure. If they are too afraid to come here because people will disagree with them. Their loss. I'm not going to lose any sleep if a certain segment of the gaming population is interesting in posting echo chamber validation style threads.
Here the thing that people on the internet and outside forget. If a person or poster you feel strongly about something does mot mean that a person or poster will feel the same way. We are in the are of age of entitlement where it;s reached the point that we are supposed to agree with someone not because of any real debate on a issue. It's because they feel entitled and demand the response they want to hear or receive. That is not a real debate on any level. It's demanding validation and forutnately most people like myself and others are not going to oblige or bend over backwards to give it to them. Don't beleieve me go by a book on debating and get back to me.
Here the thing though. The way you post comes across as being the only definite opinion that matters. With anything or anyone saying differently as being wrong. I'm not sure if you realize that is the case. it comes across as very much "my opinion and only my opinion on the topic at hand counts. Even if the RAW or the devs say otherwise it means nothing. So lets drop the whole "I can't understand why I'm being treated this way. I'm innocent. I did nohing wrong" because quite frankly your doing yourself a disservice.
Nothing wrong with disliking some parts of a rpg you play. The issue here is that almost 90% of your posts are about disliking some aspects of the rules. How about writign a few posts about something you actually like about the game. From someone reading these boards it sure as hell looks like as a person imo you really don't like D&D in general.
It's comes across as whining because a lot of times what you are posting about is not really a issue or broken. By RAW, the developers and most of the people on these boards. If you start a thread where the title is "power attack is broken" and 30% of posters agree and 70% don't then common sense tells me that most people have no problems with the feat. While your entitled to post. Your absolutely not entitled to demand that posters agree with your thread, your posts or your posting style. Even then i as a poster you would be more reasonable you would get less flak,. Except on one hand you say your open and want to discuss topics of all kinds. That you don't speak for everyone. Yet the way you post says exactly that. While ignoring anyone else including the developers who say your wrong. Because you think that spell components are expensive and that they should be tracked does not in any way shape or form mean that to be true. By RAW and the devs they are not. And you know what we don;t have to post in your thread true. Yet neither do you have to come and pollute these forums with the same topic over and over again. Just rewritten differently.
It's not just spell components. I think you have a problem with anything and everything that give a player any advantage and by RAW you can't control. The Dm who if he can't control anything or everything with a iron fist at the table finds those elements broken.
To be blunt as posters we are not here to give you a echo chamber or validation whenever you post something. Go start your own forum and/or blog where you can be a mod and block and ban everyone who disagree with you. Were not going to bend over to accmdate Shadowsoul on any level.
Shallowsoul and other posters like him come to these boards not to discuss with their threads. For two things a echo chamber and validation of their op. They may title their thread to want to hear about both sides in a debate. Even write the op to give the illusion that they do. Yet are not interested in anything posts or anyone that do not agree withe them. All they are interested in is a internet equivalnet of "atta boy your 1000% correct" with a path on the back.
I'm all up for debate yet the op is not interested or even to hear from what I have to say what's the point of even posting here. Unless the topic has a clear majority with most posters your not going to get a majority agreeing with you. I don't get posters on forums who insist on starting a thread on a forum and expecting everyone to agree with them. Just because they feel strongly about something. It's like everyone is equal yet I'm ore equal than others on a forum. If one fees like that nothing the more moderate posters here can do. Just don't expect us to bend over backwards to accomdate your initial post or how you feel on a topic as a posters. It's not even about talking about both the good and bad aspects of the game. It's a excuse to man and complain about something else he hates and finds wrong with the game. With RAW being rewritten to fit his and only his vision of the rules. They are other posters who are interested in a ctually debate about the merits and flaws of the system. Shadowsoul is not one of those posters imo.
I'm starting to wonder if we as posters should boycott shadowsouls posts. It's obvious he has no interest in what anyone who disagrees with him has to say. I'm not even sure he realizes or cares he just insulted everyone on the forum. Were important to him if we as a majoirty agree with his topic. Yet if we don't suddenly were not important if we disagree with his post like this one and we don't count. Were not important. We don't speak for everyone. Yet somehow he does. With authority and without backing up his claim to such imagined authority with any concrete proof.
So far a handful of people have agreed with the guy all respectful. Yet the majority in this thread have no. As well as the devs. Oh that's right they don't count at least to shadowsoul anyway. RAW. Why would he let RAW get in the way of how he feels about anything. Hell RAI the same thing. Initally as a poster he actually had some good things to say. Now it's like watching a self hating PF player moan and groan every time. After having read through all the rules to find yet something else he does not like.
Now all of his threads are so predictable. Next week it's going to be a encumberance thread. Where in his games he tracks everything and anything his players (poor guys I feel for them) have to carry. Everything including a copper peace has to weigh 1 pound or more. The developers come along and say that by RAW and how they run games most things have no weight value. Shadowsoul posts that what the devs said does not count since it usually contradicts his position. And like this thread unless it's a validation or echo chamber style thread we will get told our opinions don't count because as usual the majority of posters in the thread don't agree with him. It ends up being less of a debate. Not truly a topic and just a excuse whine and complain about yet another part of the rules.