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Goldballs is not that bad of a character. Just given a truly stupid name by the writer who created him. It's like having the power to creae wood a shape it then have the writer call the character the Carpenter. At least it's better than Snot or Glob. Yes there are two characters called that. If you decide to research them you have been warned
I don't mind Kenders. I think between the horribly annoying way they were written in the Dragonlance novels. To poorly run in character by players. I can see why they annoy some in the hobbty.
Gamers who invite new players into their groups yet really do so only as a last resort and only half heartedly I was in a game where it was the DM his girlfriend and his best friend. Never have I and the other members of the group felt so unwelcome. It was as if we gamed at their leisure and pleasure. I guess when one runs game with the same three people for years one becomes insular. Nor is one going to get the perfect gamer i.e. the same personalities as everyone else.
Gamers with a girlfriend who won't treat her like everyone else. Giving special treatment. I'm all for respecting and loving ones significant other. Yet if the GF character keeps escapaing death and getting the best items why bother playing with such blatant favoritism.
Unreasonable Demanding DMs/Players. Must set aside not 4 not 5 not 6 but 12 hours on every Sunday to game. Which I could do when I was in my teens or early twenties. Not now. I just don't have the time, patience or willingness to sit through 12 hours of gaming anymore. Or complain that I leave a hour early even when I have repeatedly mentioned that I need to leave early because of having to take public transportation and I don't want to get home at 1 am in the morning. As I work at 8 am the next day. I have gamed with some real nitpickers never ever again. Not to say everything goes my way yet if I tell the DM/Players upfront about the situation and it bothers them why recruit me in the first place. Just seems like a waste of time and energy.
Grey Lensman wrote:
I have to ask wax he a zombie. Unless it was a low quality stick deodorant that's some pretty bad odor IMO. As in bottle it and drop it on ISIS.
I get that not everyone wants to go online or learn to. The issue is that it's just so convinent. Instead of say calling player after player on the phone to tell them about the upcoming session. Just easier to do a group email or message and send it off. At a certain point time and managing it properly becomes a priority. The days of spending hour or more talking on the phone with a friend is just rare. Not becaus I don't want go. Just a busy schedule.
Not not intoxicated. Just autocorrect being a problem. That's okay your not the first person to be rude to me on these forums. ;)
Well if I tell you the group is using email and/or Facebook from the start to communicate between games. Then you have two options. Either adapt or find another group. I and my players have adapted to a certain way we handle our gaming lifestyle and were not changing it for anybody. Not unless it's for a very good reason. Too lazy to write a email is not a good reason.
I can even understand not wanting to go on Facebook as one has to be careful with the account settings and know what they do. Emailing is not that hard. As for internet access one can get free wifi at the closest mcdonalds or even a mall. Hell even the cheap pizza place two blocks from me offers free wifi. As for the age of a computer unless it's 20-30 years old most computers can handle sending email. Emailing does not take that much processing power. I'm not asking a person to play WOW just send a few words by the internet.
Sometimes though they may have to ask. If I'm playing a Ranger I would like a idea of the types of enemies I'm supposed to face. If it's a campaign with a lot of undead. A ranger without undead as a favored enemy will still be useful just won't be as effective. Considering it's every five levels for a new favored enemy I would want to build a proper ranger.
Rules lawyers, the ones who compare my campaign to theirs and then proceed to tell me everything that is "wrong" compared to theirs, and the ones who don't or won't bathe. I've met one person who encompasses all three. *shivers*
Forgot about not wanting to bathe. i'm not saying come to the game smelling like a rack of deodrant products. Yet when a person smells worse than roadkill it's hard to game with such a person.
Edition warriors . The hobby is not enriched by them. Freedom of speech be damned I and my players don't want you polluting our game experience. Unless one has a gun to their head no one is forced to engage in such behavior.
Edition Warrior apologists. Nothing bothers me more than the "ehh what you can do that type of behavior will never go away types". Yeah no unless your a unthinking animal like a cat that acts on instinct. Or have a mental disease where one cannot control what comes out of onew mouth. It is something that most certainly does not have to be part of any hobby. Both types will be politely asked to stop at my table. If they don't both get shown the door in my games no exceptions non-negoticiable or up for debate. I walk away from a table if it's not my home. Better no gaming then bad gaming
Dms with a god complex. Or who can't say no in a respectful way. A simple "no I'n not allowing class/race/feat XYZ in my games". The ones who like to yell out NO!! or whatever else are shown my door. Or I walk. Were all adults. Being the DM does not mean one gets to act like a man-child. Telling me you bought the books and deserve special consideration for your work as a dm will fall on deaf ours with my group. All of us have been dms at least once. We never asked or wanted to be treated special. A person who takes the mantle of the DM also takes with it all the responsabilites. No one is forcing anyone to run the game.
Players with a god complex given the same treatment as above.
Rules lawyering I actually don't mind as long as it's minmal amounts. If the game stops because a rules lawyer has to discuss every damn rule. Shown the door no exceptions. DM is unwilling to reign one in I walk. Life is too short to be spent on arguing about rules.
Players who refuse to learn what their characters can do. Not that much of a problem for martials. For casters at high levels in any edition leading up to 4th it is. My group and myself are willing to turn a blind eye for a certain time. Yet by level 5 we expect the players to know what their spells can do. Even if it means writing out a cheat sheet. Some are easy enough to remember like Bless. As nothing slows a game down more than a player(s) looking through the core or sourcebooks for a feat/spell/ability. The only exception is the DM as he or she needs to remember a lot more than the players. Before anyone tells me they don't have the time. Well if you have the time to come and read what wrote here you have the time to learn what your character can do. A player loses his turn at our tables if he or she is unprepared.
The person who never brings food or drink to the game. Yet the first one to partake of everything. At our table we all like to bring something. We all share in the food and drink. While a person does not always have to bring food all the time. We do ask they bring something at least occasionally. Even if its a bottle of soda or bag of chips. Or leave and don't at least make a small effort to put their plate on least on the sink.
The Rip Van Winkles. I'm willing to overlook falling asleep at my table once twice three times. After that either get proper sleep or don't show up. Nothing runs the flow and ambiance of a game with a person falling asleep and passing out at the table. Leaving the table to sleep elsewhere is just as distruptive. As again nothing ruins the flow more than having to call the fighter slumped on a couch sleeping.
The individual who can't function on his own without the other family member. What i mean by this. Well I had two brothers in my game. We call them A and B. A was an is not able to function without B. A could go nowhere without B giving him a lift. B had to write up all the characters for A because unless we played a Palladium rpg which he knew inside and out A was not willing to learn let alone write up his character. I'm all for love and respect and wanting to help family members. When one cannot function at all without the aid of the other it's kind of hard to plan games or run games with them in it. When asked if A could show to a game his reponse was always "well is my brother going?" Nor did A have any medical condition requiring B help all the time.
Josh M. wrote:
When possible at least 48 hours. Minimum 24 hours unless it's something that came out opf the blue like a sick child or having to do overtime at work.
I'm 41 years old. The players I game with and/or run are in the 35-43 age range. If we are not gaming we usual are busy with something else. As well some are married or in a relationship.Last minute cancellations happen. Too often and it screws up everyone else social calenders. Gamers in the hobby forget people have lives outside of D&D. It's not like when I was 15-20 years old. No responsabilites, job or family. Able to play every week on a regular basis. No we play once maybe twice a month. Mostly once a month. As well our group anyway we play if we have a minimum of three players including DM. When one is using a AP it's kind of hard to continue when too many players are missing. Of course I can make something new up. If the group reaches a crucial point in a AP say fighting a BBEG unless I can get a majority of the players I need to run something else or put it on hold.
Player misses because of a sick child or is sick. Or because of job no problem. Missing because they found out they had a barbecue to go to on a Monday of the week then tells me Friday no not a happy camper. I kicked out two players because apparently they had designated internet days. Even though they spend almost everyday playing mmos online. They have time to go online and play mmos yet not enough time to send me a email at least a day before the game. I'm not putting up with that type of BS from anyone anymore.
I have few I won't play with.
Those who refuse to use email or social media to communicate. Sometimes I'm just too busy to call or communicate in person. Made worse when they spend hours playing online. If one can play mmos for hours one can send a email or a message on Facebook.
Those that the GMG classify as "Lumps". Show up. Do minimal amounts of roleplaying. Offer no tactics and spend more time scanning their iPhone or iPad.
Optimizer sometimes. The ones that assume that does who do not have the best option for their character dont know what your doing. I'm all for advice just don't assume thAt I'm a idiot.
Those who insist on making non-optimized characters. I'm not saying make the best character. Make one that can contribute at the table. As roleplaying can only go so far. If it's a combat oriented campaign make someone that can at least hit the broadside of s barn. Or a evil group don't mskr a Paladin.
Those who tell me at the last minute when they can't dhowcto the game. I understand that sometimes life throws something at a person at the ladt minute. Or a person just does not feel like gaming. Dometimes I don't want to game either. Just don't tell me at 9 pm on a Friday when we're gaming Saturday afternoon.
The only advantage over the 5E prices is that the Pathfinder core is a PHB and DMG in one. Unless your buying on Aamzon the core is 50$. I will grant you that the Bestiary 1 is 10$ cheaper than the 5E Monster Manual. It's not just W0tc I can list a few other companies who have expensive prices for their books. Try being a fan of Shadowrun 5E.
As for having to buy every book because of no OGL. Gimme a break. We D&D fans were just fine before a OGL came along. Do you think myself and others bought every 1E or 2E D&D book. The smart D&D groups bought what they needed. No one was or is forced to buy every book for every rpg. I may not buy the Strategy Guide. My players, the DMs I play with and myself are not going to lose any sleep because were not "caught up".
I have seen none of the "thank god for 5E to save us from Pathfinder" type of comments. I might have missed such comments I admit. Mostly I'm seeing fans happy with less complexity. Less numbers to keep track off. Easier to run than PF. Martials get more love style comment. I get you like Pathfinder. I still think your overexagerating the hate for the system. If anything I have seen more dislike from the PF fans on certain topics than from the 5E fans in some cases. I admit I dislike a few things with the PF rules myself. For 5E I'm reserving judgement until I have the entire core set.
I can respect that. It could have also been done without the finger pointing towards some of the fanbase who like 5E. It truly was not needed at all imo.
Silent Saturn wrote:
Well that is a improvement somewhat. Being able to keep it bottled up is something. Again why the lack of loyalty on the part of the ooze. When there is the Summon Monster spells.
Steve Geddes wrote:
I'm super happy I can enjoy both. I think 5E is great (though not my game of choice) but that has nothing to do with paizo and pathfinder. I think they're great too.
Agreed and seconded. I like both. I like Pathfinder flaws and all. I'm also not afraid to say that I do. I'm not afraid to tell someone that their feet drink even in their own homes. That just me. I do think the op is blowing the anti-parhfinder sentiment out of proportion. It's one thing to say parhfinder sucks. Which most are not IMO. It's along the lines of switching over to 5E because to some like myself may want less complexity. After all last time I checked we were allowed to discuss topics that are both negative and positive towards parhfinder. If all that is desired is a echo chamber I can do that as well.
A person could have a lot of reasons to churn out oozes. They could use them to dispose of garbage or cadavers, make traps with them, weird science projects, etc, etc. Not every feat is a combat/spell/pet way to inflict pain or win combats. Many feats are not related to combat at all and just part of personality or backstory. This is just one of those feats I guess.
All good and well. Except unless the oozes are in a enclosed acid immune area they will get out. Since the are both dumb and uncontrollable a person creating them runs the risk of them getting loose. Attacking pm random people in a town or village. Which I'm sure is going to make the local lad enforcement very happy, they can't be used in a trap not unless it's the type where the ooze can't get out or burn its way out. As again they can't be controlled.
I get your point except that if they made the ooze either with some intelligence or loyal then they would have their uses. Having no control and no means to communicate is s problem. Might as well ask or bribe a Otyugh instead. Somewhat intelligent and if feed reasonable loyal.
Well Mem the thing is not every option is intended to be a viable player option. Some options are extremely situational and intended as NPC abilities or features.
Like Rynjin said it's not even worth it for NPCS. Unless a npc wants to block a corrider to escape. Other than that both a pc and a npc can't even use the ooze to aid their teammates as it might turn on them. Which is going to go over so well. Not to mention yeah no I don't waste valuable feat slots on extremely situational let alone situational garbage feats. I consider it both a feat tax and a trap. It would not be too bad if the requirements were not so steep. All that to get a mindless non-loyal ooze. No thanks.
Sounds like a B-movie in the making. It came formless from Golarion outer planes. Only to be awakened by a hapless victim and a stick.
Craft Ooze feat that is worth taking.
The current one is imo a joke. I need to have two item creation feats. Three ranks in a skill and be fifth level. As well as spending money on equipment to craft it. Only to get a ooze dumber than a bag full of hammers and no loyalty to the person who created it. If the devs really disliked the idea of players of having access to oozes why even waste time developing the feat.
I was wondering when someone would use the " it's not poor class design it's your fault that you can't play class xyz" copout. We know a Rogue can have a high AC. It's assuming that a player optimzes from the start. The right build and find dydtem mastery. A DM allows a player to take non-standard items. As well as give out enough money to purchase such items. It's all good to point out that one can take a Mithral Kikko. Not so much when a DM allows core only.
With the Wrath AP the encounters IMO should have been designed from the ground up to be optimized IMO. Even if it meant going against their design philosophy of developing aps for beginners. All they had to go was write a disclaimer "for experienced DMs and players only" on the cover. If any so needed to be optimized from the ground up it was this one. It might haveade it eadier to run or the encounters more challenging. Even with the badly designed Mythic rules.
My experiences with the aps is different from nobodyshome. Three APS run. Two to completion one halfway. I have had to rewrite the encounters most of the time. If it's a poorly designed BBEG. To having to boost the hp and equipment of the other npcs. A good example is in Rise of the Runelords. At one point the group is fighting a bunch of Ogres. The main problem is that the encounters are inside structures that are for medium sized creatures. One of them a fort. It's kind of hard for the npcs to swarm the party when they are large sized creatures. The players were still challenged. Yet it took s lot if reworking on my party. Next time I run it I would scrape having the Ogres in the Fort. Nor are my players heavily optimized. Only one really. The rest have properly built characters.
I can see shh some of the posters who know the math of the system boycott the plsytests. I don't blame them either. If what some of them say is true the devs for the most part are not interested in feedback. Apparently they tell posters to stop posting or posts disappear. As well if the fans keep pointing to flaws and they get ignored then why bother. In the end I think the whole plsy test process is a feel good public relations exercise. So that the hardcore fans can point to Paizo and go "look how good Paizo is compared to Wotc". The devs are not forced to use the feedback of course. Yet if they are going yo do their own thing why ask got it in the first place. I respect the devs. I like the product for theidtvpsrt, I also see the same mistakes being repeated over and over.
When it comes to developing new material it goes to two extremes. Either it's too good like Sacred Geometry, or not worth taking like Slashing Grace. No proper middle ground. At this point they should be going it in their sleep. Which is why I dont understand how thug messed up with the Mythic Rules. I probably will not run the ap. I don't mind reworking a sp. Not to the extent I would have to for this one.
It's all too easy to blame the play testers for flaws in class post playtest. What no one wants to admit is the involvement of the dev(s). Even if the majority of playtesters said yes to a full bab Warpriest It matters nothing if a dev is dead set against giving the class full bab. Playtest feedback or no. In the end the devs have shown they will ignore it if they choose to.
I don't think think the Rogue class sucks. It can be improved. Sneak attack require one to be in melee. Which is a sure way to get the Rogue killed off. Or one had s very generous DM. It's the same reason if I play a Investigator I'm not going to use his version of sneak attack, it requires a very specific build to make a melee Rogue viable IMO. Another issue is that in terms of skills they don't have anything that really stands out. Or anything that in general really makes them given stand out. I'm currently playing a Archeologist Bard archetype. I get ghe best of both worlds minus sneak attack.
I'm also assuming that a binder is also more expensive to produce than a regular hardback as well. As well as built with decent production values. As any surviving 2E binders for the most part are still in average to good condition. Even after all this time. If paizo were to make one they can't cut corners or go cheap,
Again I don't dislike monster ecologies. You need the right players and/or DM to take advantage of ut in a game. A Monster Manual where everything to run a creature is self contained trades something in order for it to do so. I like running Pathfinder. I did enjoy running 4E and if I every run 5E encounters more. Having to reference only one book as opposed to more than one to find out all the information needed to run a creature is a big plus for me.
While including ecology of monsters would have been nice. I don't miss it. In all my years of gaming about 90% of the players I played and ran the game with never really cared about it. Nor were they simple hack and slashers either. Unless a DM makes a creatures ecology part of the adventure I'm not that interested in the mating or eating habits say of Xorn. All it does really is make the reading of the Monster Manuals more interesting. Usually creatures being fought don't last long enough for the players to know more about them imo. I like the book. Very pleased with it. Glad to see Modrons again as well.
Agreed and seconded. Not to mention a company needs a successful and profitable system as well. Many people enjoy Palladium books rpgs. Those same rpgs are nowhere near as popular because the fans moved on because of a dislike of the rules.
From the looks of it Kickstarter is changing it's rules. For the better imo.
The original article where I found out about it: http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/innovation/kickstarters-new-rules-creators-must -complete-projects-or-fess-n209011
A link to the new rules: https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use
It's about time imo.
Apologies if it's in the wrong section of the forums
I guess I must be the odd man out when it comes to WEG SW. I like and had fun with the rpg. Though I hated how they realized how their rules dealing with the force made it unbalanced in the right hands. Their solution instead of trying to fix the problem was to screw over force users.
I will never get the complaint that a system is too oversimplified and dumbed down. How is making it easier to run or make characters for a rpg a bad thing. I get if by making it easier something is lost. Nothing is lost in 5E character creation. I can make the same characters I did in PF that I can in 5E. With PF I need Herolab and refuse to make characters or join a game of PF if I can't. With 5E I may use Herolab down the line. Right now I'm enjoying making characters the old fashioned way
I can see players using a faux accent when playing Dwarves. In the first Baldurs Gate you get a quest from a Dwarven npc with such a accent. Not sure if the the later games did the same thing.
Another thing players who don't like guns, ninjas or anything not your vanilla fantasy. I get that some like fantasy to just the usual mix of stuff. Yet if I tell you upfront it's going to be a non-standard fantasy game. I don't want to hear "Guns! They don't belong in fantasy" or something similar.
Artemis Moonstar wrote:
When you state your campaign takes place a few hundred years after the Numerian crashed ship triggered a remote detonation of over half the reactors scattered around Golarion (home-brewed to be placed there), and it's a "Guns-Everywhere, High-Tech uncommon" setting... Shows up with an elven archer and complains about the mass proliferation of tech items, roving robots, and large swaths of land blighted by radiation... Oh, and the mutated ogres (Super Mutants).
I always find these gamers both funny and strange. It's as if they either ignore you when tell them the background. Or don;t read the notes sent by email about the campaign world. If you hate aspects of a certain campaign world why even join the game or make a character.
He is out of control I agree. If the police arrest you twice for carrying a weapon and the excuse to keep carrying its "but I like manga". Then IMO he is a little too obsessed by his hobby. Especially if other of the same hobby consider him too extreme.
For me it's the I'm a super strong and tough character cursed with a low intelligence and charisma. But really I have a high intelligence and charisma despite my looks. While refusing to roleplay low attributes. Or simply getting by through adding skill points into Diplomacy. Or not be penalized by them. Once or twice I'm fine with that concept after awhile it just feels like taking low attributes and not expecting to be penalized by havvng them. I implemented a house rule where if the person wants to bypass the negatives of a low cha or int they can. At the cost of a lower st and con. So no 20 str and/or con at my table. At most 16 in each. The time spent learning to be more socialble and learning to talk to people better comes at a cost of being stronger and tougher.
The gamer who swears he knows the system from front to back end of the core and knows almost nothing about the game.
The gamer who refuses to put in a few dollars for snacks yet takes the most at the table. Granted every game has one I'm not impressed by them.
I have seen a lot of vitriol towards 5th edition on these boards, mainly because it was made by WotC, and even more because they don't have pdfs or any form of digital "printing" (yet).
Even if they had PDFs or digital printing their would still be vitriol thrown there way. Gamers use any and every excuse to edition wars
The irony here is that the same stuff 3.5 and Pathfinder fans complain about with the rules is that for the most part 4E fixed. Maybe not in the way they wanted but it did. Now we still see the same people argue about the same flaws real or not with the rules over and over again.
In my neck of the woods their still is a decent amount of fans that play 3.5 and will not switch to any other edition. To the point where thw owner of the LGS that I buy books from just does not want to deal with them anymore. After a point inly so many times one can tell a person that 3.5. no matter how one wants it to be will not be supported. They refuse to buy the PF core. Or use the online SRD or even a app.
I have seen a few unhappy fans about 4E. None very bitter. I guess I must hang out with more socially well adjusted mature fans of the hobby. The same way where I meet a handful of fans who were unhappy about 3.5 being cancelled. It has nothing do with Wotc 4E advertising campaign. Or what they did to FR. Or for having to pay for new material. Again maybe because the gamers I hang out are again well adjusted social individuals who have better things to do then be bitter about rpgs or the companies that make them.
Shakes Hands with Tels
I feel your pain yet don't let it get to you. Every rpg company has it's fans who defend the company. The best thing to do is respectfully disagree and move on. That being said don't let anyone here stop you from posting anything negative towards Paizo. It's a forum to discuss both positive and negative stuff about Paizo. It's also not a echo chamber either. I was unhappy with the editing mistakes in the ACG. Continue to remain unhappy with the devs making the same mistakes over and over. Made worse by the fact that even after all this time they can't design new material properly sometimes. Either it's really good like Sacred Geometry. Or not do good like Slashing Grace. Or the fluff description if say a feat is amazing yet the crunch the opposite. I'm looking at you Craft Ooze.
Pricing and value economics don't care about your subjective view of the item in question. There's actually quantifiable work and research put into coming up with a price point. Paizo's own CRB costs $50 and don't mince page numbers. You get either game in print for the same price. That's not to say Wizards modeled there price after Paizo at all. $50 to buy *a* game is pretty standard. It is competitively priced on Amazon perhaps more influenced my Pathfinder which goes for the same price. Your arguments, sunshadow, is entirely trying to tear into Wizards while conveniently ignoring both a) gaming industry (not even print/publishing) standards and b) the practices of the company whose forum on which you're posting. If Wizards is doing it wrong, then so is Paizo and so is most of the games industry.
Agreed and seconded.
I know of two people who don't buy on the internet. Both self professed luddites. Otherwise about I would say 90% of the gamers I know would buy online. Some don't to support the lgs. I know next year looking for a new job I may go online myself. Reserving the lgs for used or books I can't wait to be mailed.
As well if a gamer is not sure about wanting to buy the 5E PHB their is a starter set and a free PDF they can download. No way no how is any rpg company going to price a PHB at the 10-15$ range. The only one I know is Palladium books at 20$ or so. Even then at the cost of the book looking and reading like it was a product made in the 1980s. I think Your right Buri it just any excuse for Sun to tear into Wizards.
As for 5E not being in pdf yes it's a little annoying but you know what the rpg industry and gamers like msyelf did just fine without pdfs before they became the industry standard. It's not a deal breaker to some of us.
I don't think it's expensive at all. It's rare do I say say impossible to find a rpg harcover that cost less than 40$ nowadays. Were not even talking full color glossy pages high production either. I don't like it yet were no longer going to get tommorow rpgs now at yesterdays prices. Amazon pricing is as near as were going to get. Remember the Battletech Readouts that used to be between 15-20$ now sell for 30$ before tax. Everything is more expensive.
Print a book. Having it bound. Then moving it from the where it was printed to the store. It cost money to do so. Unlike the rpg books don't magically appeaer out of thin year. If I could I would force every gamer to take a class on basic economics as they are not really educated in that subject. Everything is more expensive.
I do have to say that if anyone in this thread thinks that Amazon is not a big factor in people buying habits guess again. I work in a bookstore where we don't match the online price. Our traffic in the stores fell by at least half in the last then years or so. As people switched to amazon or our own site. So I have very little sympathy for anyone who says the core is expensive when Amazon has it for cheaper. The PF core before discount is 50$ on Amazon so its pretty pricey too. http://www.amazon.com/Pathfinder-Roleplaying-Game-Core-Rulebook/dp/16012515 05/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1409928713&sr=8-1&keywords=pathfinder +core
The 5E core before discount is 50$ as well http://www.amazon.com/Players-Handbook-Dungeons-Dragons-Wizards/dp/07869656 06/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t
Rocket Age with decent production values and black and white art is 40$ http://www.amazon.com/Rocket-Age-Ken-Spencer/dp/0857441582/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UT F8&qid=1409928882&sr=8-1&keywords=cubicle+7+rocket
Your not going to get high production values at 40$ . Not anymore. Maybe 10-15 years ago. That ship has sailed. No company run by anyone with a ounce of business sense is going to sell something at a lesser price because some fans can't afford it.