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Bishop Ze Ravenka

meatrace's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Society Member. 6,946 posts (6,949 including aliases). 1 review. No lists. No wishlists. 2 Pathfinder Society characters. 6 aliases.


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TheAntiElite wrote:
meatrace wrote:
thejeff wrote:


Look at the brutal suppression of Occupy. It's also about whether you represent a threat to the system. For all their anti-government rhetoric, the Open Carry folks don't. Occupy did, just like unions and labor agitators used to.

I had to reread this several times because my brain kept parsing it as "labor alligators". Which I think is way cooler.

Adult-onset dislexia?

I am okay with this so long as they are not of the trap door variety.

No, I imagine it's this variety.

NOTE: Watch video from beginning to end for full effect.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
thejeff wrote:


Look at the brutal suppression of Occupy. It's also about whether you represent a threat to the system. For all their anti-government rhetoric, the Open Carry folks don't. Occupy did, just like unions and labor agitators used to.

I had to reread this several times because my brain kept parsing it as "labor alligators". Which I think is way cooler.

Adult-onset dislexia?


4 people marked this as a favorite.

Because it is relevant, and because it is local (to me anyway) I figured I'd post this piecethat has been circulating my social media.

Granted, this story is one man's side and doesn't cite sources a whole lot (he's a layperson father of a murdered son) but I think it highlights the realities of the situation.

I tend to think that, now that Fergusen is getting national attention and scrutiny, that things might actually get done. The problem is that this sort of stuff happens every day and not every incident gets the light shone on it that it deserves.


To extend the metaphor, the story about the murdered youth being a suspect in some other crime is the police's attempt to use Bluff, but with the -20 penalty for saying completely unbelievable.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Common sense is what tells us the world is flat.


Sissyl is 100% correct.
If you couldn't be both a democracy and a republic then republics would be s&*%ty. Being "represented" by people in a central government who you are not actually able to elect is a bum deal.


Why don't we just roll in and close them up. If you don't pay taxes here you don't do business here.


Sounds like progress. Magazines are so last century.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Aranna wrote:
NobodysHome wrote:

Protestant: WTF?!?!? Can we get over the "God hates" thing already? God loves everyone. As long as they believe in God. If they don't, then God hates 'em.

This isn't accurate by the way. I mean the first part is... God does love us all. But the second part isn't. God promises all our misdeeds will be punished... This is a death sentence for everyone on earth. But he loves us and so he sent his only begotten son to die for us and give us a second chance at heaven through him... we only need to believe, nothing more.

But you don't just have to believe, you have to believe and also rigorously follow a 2000+ year old moral code or you will be tortured for eternity.


Irontruth wrote:

Made me think of a thing....

Harry S. Plinkett wrote:
The Phantom Menace is the most disappointing thing since my son. I mean how much more could you possibly f&~% up the entire back story to Star Wars. And while my son eventually hanged himself in the bathroom of the gas station, the unfortunate reality of the Star Wars prequels is that they'll be around.... forever. They will never go away. They can never be undone.

Oh hey, another RLM fan!


I drove 100 miles out of my way the other day to get a few pounds of smoked salmon from a dynamite smokehouse I know.

That's probably not terribly unhealthy, compared to what I could be eating, but egads is it DELICIOUS!


Bill Maher was talking about ISIS on his show a few weeks ago about how basically the borders in the middle east were all drawn a century or so ago by western powers without any regard for the peoples who populated those regions beforehand, and we're just seeing the ramifications of that play out. I think he's right.

But we have to remember that we ALSO arbitrarily drew the lines for Israel and it's reasonable to consider it just as illegitimate.

I'm no fan of ISIS or Hamas or AQ, but all this chaos is just the emergence of a millenia old religious conflict between Sunni and Shia, exacerbated by ignorant meddling. There will be no resolution until we stop interfering, and that interference includes the blind backing of Israel.

We should wash our hands of it once and for all and wait for the dust to clear.


Irontruth wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

Close.

1) The violence is being committed whether hamas exists or not

2) Any plan which starts with "Violence will not happen" is an impossibility.

Except no one expects your version of 2 to happen. The Israeli's aren't stupid, they know violence is a possibility. What they want is mechanisms to stop it and find those committing it.

Hamas doesn't do anything to stop rocket attacks. They hand out order forms for more rockets.

You're right, no one expects #2 to happen, which is why Israel is so obviously disingenuous when it claims it won't negotiate until it does.

What they want is genocide, pure and simple. If they wanted to stop it, they'd find and close the tunnels on the Israeli side.

Sorry, but there are no good guys in this conflict, just bigger bullies.
Israel got a bloody nose and came back with a glock.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Irontruth wrote:


I was calling into question inaccurate statements from someone else. I don't care if someone else said something, that's not attributable to me. Just because I'm pointing out Meatrace's inaccuracy, does NOT mean I'm disagreeing with his overall sentiment, just that I find some of his "facts" to not actually be facts.

No, you were pitching a fit because you continued to willingly misinterpret what I said. Something no one else seems to have had a problem understanding.

I never said Arab Israelis were disenfranchised, I said half the population of Israel, of which I am counting the population of Palestine. Or at least the territory of palestine entirely surrounded by Israel.

Feel free to continue to represent my rather clear statement though if it makes you feel superior. Seems to be your only motivation for being on these boards anyway.


thejeff wrote:
The point is that pointing at a nation as a shining example of democracy when they have an entire subject population that doesn't count is hypocritical.

Bingo.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Irontruth wrote:
Well, voting is a legal matter. If you aren't legally part of a country, why should you vote in it?

Well, when you live in an area under military control by a power that won't recognize your state's sovereignty, and you commute to Israel every day for work for your entire life, yes you should be able to vote.

By your logic, all the US would have to do is declare minority neighborhoods in the US to be part of a different country to disenfranchise entire swaths of our country. No dice.

There's NO WAY you would tolerate a policy that granted citizenship to US residents based solely on their heritage.

I find it telling how willing you are to take the imperialist side of this argument.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
thejeff wrote:
Arab citizens are allowed to vote, though they do face other restriction. I suspect, especially given the "more than half" bit, that he was referring to the adult population of the whole territory Israel controls. Both Israel itself and the Occupied territories.

That's correct. Israel doesn't recognize the state of Palestine, and thus the population of Palestine is de facto part of Israel. They are not citizens of Israel, of course, because that would be democracy and the racist war-mongers in the Knesset would be voted out in a week.

Can you imagine if the US decided that all Native Americans (probably the closest analogy, but you'll forgive since there isn't a perfect one) were not US citizens and were denied the franchise? Being able to pick and choose who among your population are considered "citizens" and thus allowed the privilege of participating in democracy is fascism at its most pure.


BigNorseWolf wrote:

Israel demands a solution where there is no rocket fire. It doesn't matter how little rocket fire there is, or that its killing fewer people than bathtub accidents are. They demand ZERO rocket fire.

There is only one solution where there is no rocket fire, and that's final.

I C wut ur did thar.


Doug's Workshop wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:


Its a lose lose for the other states. Taking in the refugees would cost money, deprive them of a weapon, and invite retaliation any time Israel decided to snag some more land.

Also, they all look the same to us, but they were already a not so popular ethnic group BEFORE this whole mess started.

It would certainly deprive them of a weapon, because once the Palestinian issue is resolved, people might realize that the only liberally-minded nation in the region was Israel. Way easier to get the world distracted by the Israeli-Palestinian conflict than let the world focus on the moral, economic, educational, and cultural failings of the rest of the Middle East (quick: which nation in the region is rated highest by the Human Development Index? Here's a hint: it's the only functional democracy in the region).

The sooner the Palestinians figure that out other interests need them as martyrs, the sooner a real and lasting peace will be forged.

I wouldn't exactly call a country where more than half the adult population isn't allowed to vote a "functional democracy".

If Jordan (or any other country) allowed refugees, Israel would simply use it as a pretense for invasion claiming that Country X is harboring Hamas terrorists. It has happened before.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

The 5 steps to running a low-magic campaign

1) Don't give your players any useful (magical) treasure.
2) Watch your players flail helplessly against the weakest enemies with DR, or become frustrated when they need to sneak in somewhere and (surprise) the warrior isn't maxed in Stealth.
3) Cackle maniacally and rub your hands together as your players are slaughtered.
4) Wait for your players to drop due to frustration, and find a new group.
5) Repeat


3 people marked this as a favorite.
zauriel56 wrote:
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
zauriel56 wrote:
I disagree with the stance of the business but not the ruling. Why should rights be infringed upon because they own a business?
Why should a employee's rights be infringed upon because they have a job?

As someone previously stated you don't have to have sex. So women have a right to not get pregnant right? You know how you can do that? Don't have sex. If you want your cake and to eat it too you're gonna have to pay. Why is it there job to pay for something elective?

Look I'm a libertarian. I believe individual rights are paramount and I believe people should be allowed to do whatever they want so long as it does not infinite on another's rights. And glad to provide some diversity.

You don't have to eat, so why should insurance cover lipitor.

And by the way THEY ARE PAYING!!!!!!!!!!111eleven
WHen you say "you gots ta pay" they are PAYING by exchanging their labor for a compensation package that includes comprehensive reproductive healthcare.


Usagi Yojimbo wrote:
Quark Blast wrote:


Well, I'm not talking about core hippy habits like pot smoking (though one must wonder at people who enjoy drug use where the altered state is in-house referred to as "being stoned" or having a "head full of zombie". Because being hit in the head with rocks is such fun and zombies are known for clarity of thought. Do they even consider that the name "pot" is derived from "going to pot"?). Now back to the topic.
Interesting- in my country we have something called 'alcohol' that people use for many of the same things. I'm surprised that you've never heard of it.

I do believe a good number of the founding fathers were known to imbibe occasionally. Some more than occasionally.

And let's not mention George Washington's hemp fields...


1 person marked this as a favorite.

You can't call your business christian and accept credit cards (usury).


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Quark Blast wrote:
meatrace wrote:

95% of the population couldn't have been land owning white men. I'm guessing 50-ish % were women and a significant portion black.

You should stop lying.

HA! Silly old bear. :D

The answer to your self-induced conundrum would be 95% of people were represented by those who were eligible to vote.

Similarly, in an autocracy/monarchy 100% of citizens are represented by their king!

But seriously, representation is determined by ability to vote. Women, poor and nonwhites couldn't vote and thus were not represented. If representation meant as you define, colonists were represented in parliament.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Crisischild wrote:

I don't really see the problem. It's a few specific products, they still cover all other forms of female birth control. Also the birth control not covered generally costs less in-store than the co-pay for many of the forms that are covered.

Why is this a world ending issue? Do I not understand because I'm a sexist racist patriaricle capitalist pig?

Because your medical care should be between you and your doctor, not your employer, and this sets precedent for far worse intrusions.


95% of the population couldn't have been land owning white men. I'm guessing 50-ish % were women and a significant portion black.

You should stop lying.


thejeff wrote:
MagusJanus wrote:
I'm going to be blunt: It's quickly reaching the point where the only way there will be peace in Israel is if we nuke Jerusalem. Because, sadly, that city is what all of the fighting is about.

Just No.

And horribly provocative. This thread is doomed, but there's no need to kick it over the edge.

Lord Snow. Glad you're alright. Glad the defense system worked and no one was hurt in that attack.

Have to agree with MJ. There will be no peace until one side of the conflict is obliterated, and even then...


Psionics are awesome.
DSP psionics are well written and fun.


Irontruth wrote:
Usagi Yojimbo wrote:
Irontruth wrote:
meatrace wrote:
Irontruth wrote:


So far, your stance is eerily similar to a Creationist...

*sigh*

You only think that because you've decided you know what I'm arguing, and won't let my actual words dissuade you.

I give up. You're hopeless.

Feel free to clarify your point. Prove that their math is wrong. Prove that it doesn't apply to effects that have been measured in the real world.

Prove you're not the creationist in this argument.

You realize that you are arguing against a point he hasn't been making, right?

Yes and no. If you go back a little ways you'll see me trying to get at the heart of his point and even agreeing with some of it. I'll put it in it's own paragraph:

I agree, they could have used clearer language and explained it better.

These are guys who are familiar with analytic number theory and they're trying to explain very advanced concepts. In their attempt to explain it in layman's terms, it's confusing and possibly misleading.

I agree with all of that. I've even said, if he wants to end his complaints with the video at that point, I completely and wholeheartedly agree with him. Seriously. 100% agreement. If that's all he's concerned with, that's the end of the discussion.

But he's gone beyond that point multiple times. He has tried to claim multiple times that math is faulty and wrong.

no. I haven't. I've gone out of my way to say that I'm not smart enough to debate the validity of the math, only that what they showed was misleading and I feel intentionally so. Repeatedly. You won't listen.


Adam Daigle wrote:
That's not very helpful.

I disagree, I'm just thinking outside the box.

Like, if someone came on here asking "is there any elaborate contraption I can invent that will allow me to change the channel on the TV all the way across the room." And my advice is "get up off the couch and get the remote."

*gasp*


Irontruth wrote:


So far, your stance is eerily similar to a Creationist...

*sigh*

You only think that because you've decided you know what I'm arguing, and won't let my actual words dissuade you.

I give up. You're hopeless.


You could get up and go talk to them.


Irontruth wrote:


C) The closest on this is posts from bloggers, who basically just stare at the equation incredulously without actually providing a mathematical proof.

And that's part of my point. People look at this and say "That's ridiculous" without actually investigating it because it doesn't fit their preconceived notions of arithmetic. Their logic basically being "I don't understand this, therefore it's wrong". No one has presented a flaw in the math, they just omit the parts they don't understand, which causes it to become incomplete and thus appear wrong.

Actually...did you even look at any of my links?

The truth is that there is a lot of debate in academic circles about whether it's even legitimate math, with most mathematicians saying no and most pro-string theory physicists saying yes, with a wink and a nod. Of course, string theory it still very contentious among physicists.

The Numberphile video was deceptive, and I think intentionally so (because it gets more of dem clicks!) and has had the deleterious effect of a generation of internet wankers walking around telling their friends that if you add up all the numbers from 1-infinity you get a negative number in a "whoa" *stoner voice* sort of way, which is not what the math actually represents.

Beyond that I'm done with this, because like I've said, people far smarter than either of us disagree on this point, and there's no way we're going to come to any sort of consensus on the boards when the people doing this work are unable to.

TL;DR- Either A or B, depending on interpretation.
I think C, but am happy to admit I'm not smart enough to debate it.


Irontruth wrote:

Bolded emphasis mine.

Please provide evidence that they were not talking about an actual mathematical proof or that the proof serves no function in mathematics.

Something has addled your brain. I didn't say what you're asking me to show evidence for. Do I have to do this step by step?

We have both agreed that the SUM of all natural numbers is infinity, not -1/12, yes?

We both agree (we don't have to though, it's there in the video title) that they are presenting the calculation as the sum of all natural numbers.

Right?

If I had a video called "Cats cats cats" and it was a video of a dog, that would be misleading. They have a video called "Sum of natural numbers" which presents calculations that do not represent the SUM of natural numbers.

That is misleading. Deceptive. False.

EDIT: The last 3-4 posts of mine have just been repeating the same thing over and over. Why is this so hard to understand IT? It feels like I'm arguing with Andrew R.


Irontruth wrote:


Except that isn't the only thing you've been saying. You've called it chicanery.

You've called it misdirection.

You've used words that are synonyms for deceit, dishonest, and fraud.

Are you standing by that analysis? That this isn't actually math, but some sort of fraud presented to look like math? Because that's what I've been going on about. Showing how this is actually a very important function in math and has useful applications, it doesn't just work as some sort of party trick, but can actually be used to produce results in the real world, or even accurately predict results of phenomenon.

So which is...

Like I said. Over and over again. Presenting it as a sum is deception. That's all I've said, even in the posts you quote back at me. THAT'S what's chicanery, because they pretend to be providing a proof for something when indeed they are not. That IS deception.

Numberphile is generally a very interesting web show, but the producers tend to be more interested in showing "a neat trick" and relying on shorthand than explaining the higher level math they delve into. As such, yes, it is a fraud and does a massive disservice both to the mathematicians (and physicists) they are representing and to the general public.


Irontruth wrote:
No, they aren't in error.

Yes, they are. You even admitted as much earlier, though you don't seem to realize you did. I'll even quote you:

Irontruth wrote:


They are saying "=" is "=".

The problem is that you're reading "=" as "the sum".

A Zeta function is not a "sum", it's a "value". Plugging in the equation returns a "value". For 1+2+3+4... that value is -1/12. The SUM is infinite. But since lots of equations give us a sum of infinite, what value is there in labeling THIS equation with a ∞?

Emphasis mine.

And yet, the video is called "Sum of natural numbers" and they present the math as the sum of all numbers. Now, I just quoted you saying, literally, "The SUM is infinite." And that the calculation represented is not a sum, but a value. I agree.

That' is the only thing I've been saying. All the rest of the stuff you've been spouting? Fine. Sure. I won't argue it. All I've been arguing is that the SUM is not -1/12, and that, as such, anyone who says it is is misrepresenting the higher level math involved. In other words, they are incorrect.

You continue to disagree because...I guess you like to argue?


Man, this thread is a real knee-slapper.


Irontruth wrote:

Too bad you didn't read one of the sources for that article.

He starts off pretty incredulous, then he shows how he did the math. Once he does, he realizes that he was mistaken and begins to realize what it is they're talking about.

Apparently you didn't read the article you just linked.

Heck, the title of the article you link as evidence is "Correction: Does 1+2+3+4...=-1/2? Absolutely Not (I Think)"

I could go on and quote a dozen more places in the article which you linked where it disagrees with your assertion, but it doesn't matter since we're no longer talking about the same thing.

All I've ever said in this back and forth is those numbers do not SUM to -1/12. On which you seem to now be agreeing. The Numberphile video, which really threw gasoline on this fire and prompted debate among physicists and mathematicians far smarter than either of us, specifically uses the term sum, or "when added up", so they are most certainly in error. They don't even provide a zeta function, just + signs.

Which is precisely why it's chicanery. They present it as one thing, as if it's simple math that the average droog just doesn't savvy rather than as a very specific and rarified meaning, which it does.

I think my point stands.


MagusJanus wrote:
meatrace wrote:
MagusJanus wrote:
As for the mental leap: It's not that difficult. Take a look at everything I've said, then go ahead and read the linked section. Keep track of how much of what I said matches up. If you want more specific, just read sections 8.7-8.10 (stop when you hit 8.11). Barely any reading at all, and you can see what I have said so far backed up by plain text from the IPCC itself. All I'm doing is pointing out an answer to why it is they left something out and saying it's most likely right based on how they addressed everything else.

Yep, that's the best way to pursue discourse. Suggest that people who disagree with you are dumb or haven't looked over the evidence.

Maybe, JUST MAYBE, since no one else can see what you see, it's on you not us?

No insult was written into my post.

I'll take your word that no insult was intended, but read your own words you quoted "It's not that difficult." and "then go ahead and read the linked section."

Hey man, at least I own up to when I'm being jerky.

Hint: I'm always a jerk.


MagusJanus wrote:


So it's one of two choices... Either the solution to reduce CO2 levels from transportation is the one item they didn't cover, or the IPCC is admitting we have simply failed. Which do you think is more likely?

Here's the thing. Neither of those choices is them actually advocating a ban on fossil fuels.

And you have a rather silly false dichotomy. Yes, they conclude that measures taken thus far have not had a significant impact. That's about a thousand miles from saying we shouldn't improve upon those incentives.


MagusJanus wrote:
As for the mental leap: It's not that difficult. Take a look at everything I've said, then go ahead and read the linked section. Keep track of how much of what I said matches up. If you want more specific, just read sections 8.7-8.10 (stop when you hit 8.11). Barely any reading at all, and you can see what I have said so far backed up by plain text from the IPCC itself. All I'm doing is pointing out an answer to why it is they left something out and saying it's most likely right based on how they addressed everything else.

Yep, that's the best way to pursue discourse. Suggest that people who disagree with you are dumb or haven't looked over the evidence.

Maybe, JUST MAYBE, since no one else can see what you see, it's on you not us?


MagusJanus wrote:
Krensky wrote:

Not how discourse works.

You made a claim, you have to actually prove it, not demand others disprove it.

I presented evidence to prove it. Now others have to disprove that evidence. Which is how discourse works.

So, where is the evidence that my evidence is wrong?

You've presented evidence that did not in any way back up your assertion.

Let's say that I asserted that you owed me a million dollars.
I then present to you a bottle of bleach with a mustache drawn on and say "see? proof positive."

Everyone who looks at my "evidence" thinks I've gone nuts, but I stick to my guns and insist that it's proof of my claim.

Ergo, you owe me a million dollars. Pay up, son.


Krensky wrote:

Not how discourse works.

You made a claim, you have to actually prove it, not demand others disprove it.

Precisely.

Moreover, if absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence it sure as hell isn't evidence of presence.


MagusJanus, your conspiracy theory that the IPCC are advocating a ban on petroleum vehicles as evinced by their NOT advocating for such a ban reminds me of the head of the NRA talking about how the only reason Obama hasn't taken our guns is because he wants to take our guns.

It takes a natural 20 on a rhetorical gymnastics roll to convince anyone of that sort of logic, unless you are eminently credulous, like NRA members.


Irontruth wrote:
meatrace wrote:
The same math can be used to prove 1=2. It's chicanery any actual mathematician will call b%@&$&#* on. You should read my link.

The problem is it isn't chicanery.

Here is an article with a bunch of mathematicians and physicists agreeing with me.

My favorite bit:

Smithsonian wrote:
So, does 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5.... = -1/12? Yes, but only if, to you, an equal sign means something other than “is equal to.

In other words, it depends on what your definition of "is" is.


The same math can be used to prove 1=2. It's chicanery any actual mathematician will call b@*~+~~& on. You should read my link.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Scott Betts wrote:
Electric Wizard wrote:
Watch it and you realize nobody can understand what they are saying.

Except mathematicians.

Quote:
And think about it, adding positive numbers can never be negative.

Ah, yes. The old "Just think about it!" counter. Right up there with "But it's common sense!" and "But I totally saw it on Facebook so it must be true!"

Quote:
It is just a propaganda video put up by String Theorists.
I don't think you know what "propaganda" means.

Except that it IS bullcrap. 1-1+1-1... is a non-converging series, which means it does not sum to 1/2. Without that bit of mathematical misdirection the whole calculation falls apart.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
NobodysHome wrote:

And I'm pretty sure there are two movies called "The Gate".

I'm talking the one where the kid used a model rocket (no, I am not kidding) to kill the demon and save his sister.

That's the one.

It's awesome. Nuts to you.


Electric Wizard wrote:
Fireman Gob Montag wrote:
Electric Wizard wrote:
...you only know what you see on the TV.
Well, I'm burning books as fast as I can, and I haven't even started burning teachers yet, so I think it'll be a while before they only learn from the GreatTalkyShowyBox.

Corporations determine which books to print too. Only the internet can set us free, but the NSA has that bottled up now.

Did you see this? "Dianne Feinstein Admits That Her 'NSA Reform' Bill Is About Protecting Existing Surveillance Programs"

.

Onion Web, my friend.


NobodysHome wrote:

It was almost as bad as "The Gate".

Almost, but not quite...

Dude that movie is amazing.

I saw that as a kid and the part with the dude in the wall freaked me out so bad it gave me nightmares. NOTHING gives me nightmares.
I watched it maybe 3-4 years ago and it was still fawesome.

You ever see the sequel?

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