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Alurad Sorizan

magnuskn's page

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber. 6,496 posts (6,498 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 alias.


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thejeff wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
. Admittedly, Sunspot and Manifold have kinda kept to the background, although that seems to be changing with the new storyline, where all sorts of weird stuff is going, including a time-jump of several months. We may be heading towards some sort of reset, I fear.
Possibly, though I suspect it'll be limited to that particular Avengers storyline, since I haven't seen a lot of crossover outside it.

Well. There are four major sub-plots running through different titles which have to do with the time continuum being kinda effed.

There's this major storyline which had the main Avenger comic making a time-jump of several months, with huge personal changes for some characters (Sunspot bought AIM. Cannonball is married to Smasher and they have a kid, which make a lot of X-Fans go oO ). It's still quite mysterious where it is going, but sudden time-jumps with major shake-ups are always suspect of getting a reset.

There was the still very recent Uncanny Avengers storyline where the Apocalypse twins created a timeline where Earth was destroyed and the status was just reset by some of the Uncanny Avengers.

There is the whole "Multiverse Earths are colliding into each other" storyline in New Avengers, which has also now an advanced timeline, with the Illuminati on the run from other Avengers.

And there are new All-New X-Men, i.e. the original five X-Men, who have been brought to the present and are staying here.

Add to this that in some of the cosmic titles people like Thanos are commenting on how there is a major distortion in the time continuum centered on Earth and we got a mix which seems to point towards some Crisis of Infinite Earths type crossover/timeline reset.

I certainly don't hope it is happening, but Marvel are not throwing out all those storylines without a reason. There's something up, IMO.


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Freehold DM wrote:
Loved some of new avengers stuff, will read more. Note that you stated this is *across* the major teams, still a very good chance these characters are in the background saving civilians while the forerunners get full page splashes as they punch villain du jour in the face.

Half of the characters I listed are in the Mighty Avengers team of Luke Cage, where they are very front and center kicking butt. Forgot to add Monika Rambeau to that list, though. Admittedly, Sunspot and Manifold have kinda kept to the background, although that seems to be changing with the new storyline, where all sorts of weird stuff is going, including a time-jump of several months. We may be heading towards some sort of reset, I fear.

Freehold DM wrote:
Still interested in sam as the new cap, may pick up the trade explaining this. Any idea when the trade is coming out or is it individual issues right now?

Individual issues I think, the storyline is currently running.


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Grey Lensman wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Also, tempo is black, man. Unless you're taking about a new character. I liked her in x-force as a semi reluctant villain/terrorist.
He meant to say Tempus if he is talking about the Australian girl.

Huh, I could have sworn it was the other way around. Anyway, I stand corrected.


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Freehold DM wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
I can only say that's a schtick that is kept in x-comics, not something you see much outside of it. Which is the problem, really. Also, it's no longer the 70's, which is a bigger problem- the comics you remember are not the comics that are being read now, and marvel has noticably backslid. What worked as diversity in 1978 doesn't work in 2014.
This is entirely devoid of fact checking. Marvel has most assuredly not "backslid" on their integration of ethnicities and gender orientated characters.

And when was the last time you saw any of the characters you mentioned hanging with Cap, Thor, Iron Man, Spidey and Wolverine in a book that wasn't being put out to make Marvel side cash but was actually paying the bills- mainstream Avengers, X-Men, Spider-Man, Thor?

Not recently beyond a cameo, I'll bet.

Yeah, well. New characters by definition need to establish themselves. I personally am also quite unhappy of how many of them are left hanging in the wind after a while. But that happens to the white kids, too, not only the ones of other ethnicities.

In the current Avengers line-up (across all major teams), there are Sunspot (Roberto DaCosta), Nightmask, White Tiger (Ava Ayala), Sunfire (Shiro Yoshina), Shang Chi, Manifold (Eden Fesi), Luke Cage, Blue Marvel (Adam Brashear), Power Man (Victor Alvarez) and, oh, yeah, Sam Wilson, the current Captain America.


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RainyDayNinja wrote:
So I hear a lot about diversity in race, gender, and sexuality, but is there much going on in terms of religious diversity in comics? Are there any noticeably Mormon superheroes, for instance? Or Muslim, or Hindu, or Evangelical, etc.? I don't really know comics, but in the recent movies, I can only think of the church scene in Man of Steel, and the throwaway line about God in The Avengers.

I'll admit, if there is a overtly Mormon or Evangelical superhero at Marvel, I must have missed it. Religion is mostly underplayed in superhero comics (undoubtedly because with so many aliens and supernatural cosmic beings running around, the whole concept becomes more than a bit iffy). If a character makes a point of displaying her/his religion openly, you can be pretty sure it's a hispanic character or a muslim, though. ^^

Lots of non-powered religious wack-jobs around, though, who mostly want to kill all mutants (i.e. the Purifiers and some other groups).


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LazarX wrote:
magnuskn wrote:

Let's take a look at some of the heroic new characters of the last years. I'll leave out aliens and people of really unusual skin tone (like "green", "blue", "purple" etc)

* **
Star-Brand - White American Male

Wasn't he the guy that turned Pittsburgh into a literal PIT?

Just a college campus with this kid. He's a new version who is firmly rooted in the 616 universe, instead of the New Universe one. And him killing those people in the 616 universe was an unwitting accident when his powers manifested.


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Let's take a look at some of the heroic new characters of the last years. I'll leave out aliens and people of really unusual skin tone (like "green", "blue", "purple" etc)

Tempo - White Australian Female

Triage - Black American Male

Morph - White American Male (possible bisexual?)

Goldballs - Hispanic American Male

Hijack - Uh, American Male. He kinda looks hispanic. Or sometimes asian. Damn that Bachalo and his artstyle.

Kymera - Black American Female

Eye Boy - White American Male

Sprite - Asian Chinese Female

Shark-Girl - Hispanic Brazilian Female

Smasher - White American Female

Star-Brand - White American Male

Nightmask - Black American(or Alien) Male

New snotnosed Nova - White American Male

I could go on, but that would involve spending an hour or so researching the different teams. I literally just poured over a list of some of the newest characters and pulled out the ones which are depicted as protagonists in books I read in the last two years. Just on that short list I came out with half the characters being of different ethnicities than "white". That may still be too many white characters for you (and I wouldn't mind a more fair ratio, either), but saying that Marvel has somehow "backslid" on introducing multiracial heroes of both genders is simply wrong.


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Freehold DM wrote:
I can only say that's a schtick that is kept in x-comics, not something you see much outside of it. Which is the problem, really. Also, it's no longer the 70's, which is a bigger problem- the comics you remember are not the comics that are being read now, and marvel has noticably backslid. What worked as diversity in 1978 doesn't work in 2014.

This is entirely devoid of fact checking. Marvel has most assuredly not "backslid" on their integration of ethnicities and gender orientated characters.


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While I definitely am disgruntled with some of the newer products (i.e. Mythic Adventures and a few of the things coming out of the ACG) and have heavily complained about them, Paizo has my business for the foreseeable time. I'm way more unhappy still at WotC for obliterating the Forgotten Realms to fit into their vision of 4E.

Also, Pathfinder is in many respects a great game and the people at Paizo haven't yet used up their share of customer loyalty.


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Huh, coming back to this thread because at the moment I favor RoW for my next AP to GM, I am surprised to see so little deaths by cold. Seems random Yeti's where a much larger danger than the cold rules, after all.


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Coming back to this thread, I must admit that I am somewhat offended by the title, on behalf of Marvel Comics (although my only association is as a fan with a 25+ year history of reading their comics).

Especially in the last 15 years since I returned to Germany from my seven year stay in Paraguay, it has been quite noticeable that Marvel has taken care to diversify their roster of new characters, both in the aspects gender, race and sexual orientation. In about every new team of young characters (Young Avengers, New X-Men, Runaways, New Warriors, Avengers Academy, Avengers: The Initiative, the guys with Cyclops revolution team currently) the cast is very diverse in all of those aspects. Hell, Marvel has included lots characters of various nationalities and ethnicities since at least the seventies. Just look at the rosters of the New Mutants, Generation X and other X-Teams. Marvel is also rolling out new ethnically diverse solo characters all the time, like the new Ms. Marvel, Kamala Khan or in the past Anya Corazón, Araña.

So, yeah. The title could have been chosen quite better.


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Thank you for the info. The main problem with S&S for me is mainly that it seems to be missing any "this is excellent!" moments. I read all three AP's through years ago, given how I was looking to GM them one day, and in SS and RoW are both some extremely solid books and very cool character moments. Like "that trap" in SS and, well, all of module five in RoW. :D


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Yeah, wait a couple of books. That will make a difference.


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Happened with modules one and two for me, too and a lot of others. Early WotR modules had a bad binding run. Write to customer service if they can replace them, include photos. Worked out for me.


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I'm a bit too tired this evening to start over the ranting about basic math and all that again. ^^


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I am probably coming off as super passive-aggressive, but what's up, doc?


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I think I'll have less problems with the railroady aspect of that AP, my players can roll with that. I'm looking at the two AP's, and I'll probably just take Skull & Shackles out of the running myself, since I don't feel any excitement for it. So it'll be down to RoW and SS.


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I'm leaving that up to the group... my personal preference would actually go towards Shattered Star, because I liked the AP very much in many places. Even if it is very dungeon heavy. With Skulls & Shackles, the problem is more with the ship-to-ship combat system, about which I am quite wary. It is a Paizo sub-system after all and I know quite well by now how well those always function in their first iteration. :-/


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Yep, that sums it about up. If there was one thing to really shake my faith in the company, this AP and Mythic Adventures was it.


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Session of October 14th 2014:

Four players in attendance.

Alright, we are back on track for "mythic makes the life infinitely easier for players and makes it almost impossible for the GM to challenge them". Also, rolling a one on a massive damage hit sucks.

The players, with the help of Alderpash, designated Igramalash' prison as the best location to fight the five wardens, having been warned that attacking one of them would bring the others to the fight almost immediately (because fighting those five one-on-one, as the adventure suggests, is an auto-win for the party). The party greater teleported to the deep containment wards and freed Igramalash via Antimagic Field. After the giant punted the Sorcerer against the next wall, it died pretty quickly to a critical hit from the Samurai's legendary weapon. Foe-biter sucks.

The other four wardens teleported in and Uffrandir died to the first hit, due to a massive damage hit for 150+ damage and a rolled one on the fortitude save. Ylleshka went up to the three melee guys and hit them all three for something like 150 damage with her full attack. In return, she herself got another foe-biting crit from the Samurai, which took her out of the fight. Inger-Maggor then also got critted out of existance by the Paladin via foe-biting (sensing a theme here?) and then Svendack ate another critical arrow to the face (after getting greater dispelled, so that her Fickle Winds wasn't on anymore), with another rolled one on the fortitude save.

The rest of the session consisted of plundering hoards and the vault and the party finished by teleporting to the Herald.

Yeah, well. We'll have to take a break for two weeks, since next week at least three people aren't there and the following week I have an important appointment coming up, so we'll return at the beginning of November.

In other news, since said important appointment most probably will mean that I have to relearn the basics of French over the next half year intensively, I've decided to postpone my homebrewn campaign until I am sure that I'll even live in the same city anymore after May of next year. We'll start another AP after Wrath, which either will be Reign of Winter, Shattered Star of Skull & Shackles.


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Artanthos wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
Err, no. Using precision damage makes them very vulnerable to running into the plethora of conditions where said precision damage does not apply. Trust me, I played a Swashbuckler at level 15 for two months. Every second fight (at the very least), I ran into opponents in poor light conditions, with magical concealment, in fog and so on.
You did not have Shadow Strike at level 15?

Oh, yes, I did. Doesn't help against Total Concealment, which shows up more than you'd think at that level.


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MMCJawa wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
What I mean is that the developers are introducing new rules (Mythic Adventures, ACG, upcoming stuff, prior sub-systems in other AP's) which are not suffiently tested, often function clunkily at best and won't get erratae'd/FAQ'ed for years. And that they are just forging ahead with this approach and are leaving a mess behind them. AP's are of course unchanged, but many of them have suffered from those badly developed sub-systems in the past and probably will in the future.
Having seen multiple conversations between you and, for instance, James Jacobs, I don't see anything he could contribute to this thread that would satisfy you or make you happy.

Well, since he can't really promise things which go against company policy, of course. Still, it is a bit sad to see that the devs stop paying attention to their older AP's so quickly. Well, if they turn into a walking disaster like this one (for reasons enumerated very often by now by very many different GM's), I can kinda understand not wanting to touch it with a ten foot pole.


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Err, no. Using precision damage makes them very vulnerable to running into the plethora of conditions where said precision damage does not apply. Trust me, I played a Swashbuckler at level 15 for two months. Every second fight (at the very least), I ran into opponents in poor light conditions, with magical concealment, in fog and so on.

The Swashbuckler also suffers from his poor saves, which are only partially mitigated by the Charmed Life class feature. The Slayer at least is better in this regard and is overall the better class in terms of versatility.


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Skeld wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
grandpoobah wrote:
Then again, we're already seeing book 3 of Iron Gods this week, so maybe WOTR is yesterday's news....
Most probably. The devs have stopped paying attention to the board for months now. It all kinda feeds into my perception that Paizo is kind off just running in front of the lion of game mechanic problems they have created, by pushing out new products as fast as they can.

They're putting out APs at a rate of about 1/month. Just like they've done for the last 7+ years. The pace hasn't changed.

-Skeld

What I mean is that the developers are introducing new rules (Mythic Adventures, ACG, upcoming stuff, prior sub-systems in other AP's) which are not suffiently tested, often function clunkily at best and won't get erratae'd/FAQ'ed for years. And that they are just forging ahead with this approach and are leaving a mess behind them. AP's are of course unchanged, but many of them have suffered from those badly developed sub-systems in the past and probably will in the future.


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grandpoobah wrote:
Then again, we're already seeing book 3 of Iron Gods this week, so maybe WOTR is yesterday's news....

Most probably. The devs have stopped paying attention to the board for months now. It all kinda feeds into my perception that Paizo is kind off just running in front of the lion of game mechanic problems they have created, by pushing out new products as fast as they can.


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Hm, not to create a long off-topic thingy (although, OTOH, who cares?), but you really think that the ACG classes are better than the classes we already got? I mean, outside of the Arcanist. None (other than the Arcanist, who is top tier with Wizards and Sorcerers) of them stood out to me as being nearly as powerful as a Paladin or Inquisitor.

Anyway, I'm off to bed. This afternoon after I get up (night shifts really mess up the sleeping cycle), it's preparation for tomorrow and the next campaign. It might be that I won't be ready with my homebrewn campaign if the sixth module finishes as quickly as this one. :-/ I'll probably have to talk with the group about that, maybe discuss if they want to do another AP. I'd rather do that than mess up my first homebrewn campaign in more than half a decade by doing it half-assed.


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How is attacking a CR 4 monster as a level 2 party not sane?


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Piccolo Taphodarian wrote:
I'm interested in the fight against the Herald. Seems pretty tough.

For the Herald, maybe. ^^

Anyway, since I am not about to play too godmode, the other wardens will join the fight on round two, regardless which warden the group decides to attack first. So I think it'll be a curbstomp, as always.


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Session of October 07th 2014:

Sorry for the delay, I am coming off another double night-shift and just got out of bed here in Germany, where it is 05:00 p.m. already. Ooof.

Anyway, five players in attendance. No combat this session, the party argued for an hour if they were going to take Orengofta up on his offer to transport them into the prison and finally decided to do so. After 27 days of travel in prison carts, they arrived, then escaped their cells. They got the equipment back from a Secret Chest they had set up and proceeded to meet the immolation devil, with whom they made a deal to free him and he would give them information on the prison complex. After that they liberated Waxberry, found the spirit of that Saranrae priestess and took the corpse of the astral deva with them (to resurrect them later, since nobody wants more useless NPC's in the coming fights).

They finally met Alderpash and convinced him to try for redemption in return for setting him free. Next session will be a combat against all the prison wardens at once. After that the Herald and after that, Baphomet, although I'll doubt that they'll get to the last one on one session.


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Skeld wrote:

Whether or not the feedback they want is the feedback they need is a different debate. Playtest feedback takes more time (and possibly more coordination since you generally need multiple people to execute it) and that may be the reason more people are interested in providing theorycraft feedback.

-Skeld

It seems indeed impractical for most groups to run extra sessions or put their normal campaign on hiatus to build test characters and play some off-sessions for said feedback. Also, that feedback most likely would still be skewed by group composition, GM ability and what types of encounters are chosen.

I am not saying that using theorycraft is the better solution, but it has its advantages, one of which is that comparing classes to each other is much more clinical and conclusive than in a playtest environment.


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Please note that Gorbacz has no idea about who my players are and how much they optimize (answer: two know their stuff, although nothing compared to what people present in the DPR threads, one gets her characters built by one of the first two, one builds decent characters and two are pretty damn bad at building powerful characters. And when one of the first two comes up with something really crazy, I always put my foot down and say "no".) and so his "opinion" should be discounted as valid discussion material.

The strength of my group mainly lies in having played together for a long time and thus having worked out some effective tactics and that AP's are difficult to adjust to this and a generally larger than normal group, this AP in particular so.

Also, generally what Piccolo said. Mythic Adventures problems happen not because people optimize... they happen because the fundamental math is broken and people need to actively anti-optimize to have the game not come crashing down around their ears. And that is just simply bad design.


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Putting me in the same category of number-crunching as those others is very flattering, but untrue. I do some basic math and come to results which any other person who would do it would come to. Rynjin, RD and the others are way, way more into optimizing than I'd ever be, which helps them find those hidden flaws. I just see the obvious stuff and say aloud "Why don't the developers see this, too? Why don't they care?!?"

I like to think that my people skills are somewhat better than with those others, though. I manage a good dialogue with James from time to time, after all. :p


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"How do you miss that scaling problem?" is about the exact phrase I have mentally exclaimed a lot over the past half year, with some minor phrasing variations. I don't know, I simply don't know.


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Orthos wrote:
Quote:
The long and short of it, is that for any future playtests, stress testing of the underlying math/system at all levels of play is extremely important. Whether or not that feedback will produce any changes (see Advanced Race Guide racial point system) is another thing, but at least Paizo will have been provided with the data since they don't seem to do any such rigorous testing themselves.
Well, the problem with this is when there are people who rigorously test the number-crunching side of things, it tends to be the people that are already heavily associated with that kind of thing - which, by and large, tend toward the more aggressive side of the scale, in my experience. Which, given some of their complaints about the way playtesting tends to be received, I can see why they're irked. So we're in a chicken-and-egg situation.

Which goes to the point of showing how thin-skinned the developers are. If people are not exceedingly polite in presenting their points, the developers just ignore them. Since ability to number-crunch and social grace seem to be mutually irreconcilable concepts for some people (and I am not discounting myself from that... I get passionate and angry when I see things which should have been obvious to anybody with the ability to even slightly math out stats. And I am far from a math-person), a ton of really good feedback tends to get ignored. To the detriment of the game.

I wish that both the developers would work on reading some heavily critical feedback and that people who do really good math on the game design could deliver said results in a better way. Including myself.

And I better get myself to bed before I begin a fatigue-ridden rant on how I suspect that the developers don't really care about making a structurally sound game, as long as they meet their monthly quotas.


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Good summary.


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Huh, I am not sure if even my players could have taken down Shamira, given how she had some really nice abilities... but I am probably not giving them enough credit at the moment. I probably would have used Meteor Swarm as my first action after Time Stop and have had Shamira flying high above the party. Her ignoring opponents resistances would probably have made quite a difference with that (normally pretty bad for a ninth level spell) ability.

Anyway, I am quite ahead in the campaign, it seems, I already am at least one third into Herald after one session.


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Session of September 30th 2014:

Sorry for the delay, I had a night shift and thus just got out of bed an hour ago. Basically the night shift began one hour after we finished our session yesterday.

Six players in attendance, although one player left before the other arrived. I am beginning to have serious doubts about that first player contributing anything to the group, given that by now he has stated that he intends now to continue to leave 1 1/2 hours into the session forever and he is the person who contributes the least to roleplaying, too. Since he is a friend, it is not really doable to just tell him to stop coming, but his being here not only helps make a campaign harder to balance (six players), it also doesn't contribute anything to the group. Really a bad position to be in. :-/

Anyway, the group used the tokens given by Iomedae to teleport to the Ivory Labyrinth and met Odeenka and four Baphomet Golems (Scorpions Upgrades). While the golems inflicted pretty heavy damage, Odeenka just disintegrated by a crit from the Samurai, for 618 damage (double Critical Master path talent). And, yes, that damage was what we calculated together. The Sorcerer cast Reverse Gravity on the three restant Golems and the Ranger just destroyed one of them in one round. I called the encounter after that, given how they could barely catch the party before being destroyed.

The party afterwards teleported to Blackburgh and, after having a few off-screen encounters with normal demons ("You win, let's continue with the plot") were invited to meet Verbezzovor by one of his swarm. He pointed them towards Orengofta, who in turn gave them the information about where to find the Father of Worms. The party set out to the Lightless Maze and spent 18 days there navigating the tunnels (with further "You win" random encounters). After finally getting to the cave containing the Father of Worms (again, upgraded), they were confronted by him. He had better senses to detect them than they did, so he opened with a readied Mythic Finger of Death, which sadly was resisted by the scouting Ranger. The Ranger retaliated with a salvo which took off about 30% of his HP and since he rolled high on initiative, he got off a Wail of the Banshee and after that burrowed underground, to heal up somewhat with Channel Energy. After noting that he would not heal up to full HP even with five times 9d6, I waited until a good moment and surfaced near the Barbarian and Samurai. The round went: Mass Hold Monster, Quickened Cone of Cold, Amazing Initiative: Breath Weapon, Amazing Initiative: Greater Vital Strike on the Samurai, Fast Swallow, Samurai digested. Burp.

The Father of Worms was pretty comprehensively destroyed after that, which was especially funny since the Cleric cast Destruction on him as the last attack... meaning that he destroyed the entire body of the Father of Worms completely, meaning no blood. Which is why they had come here in the first place. Ooops.

The Samurai was True Ressurected from a scroll they found last module and I ruled that his gear had survived being swallowed. The party returned to Orengofta, who, after facepalming at the Cleric, suggested that he could take them prisoner and deliver them per hand to the Ineluctable Prison. I had to point out the spell Secret Chest before they accepted that, but next session will begin with them spending 6d6 days traveling in cages to the prison in their underwear. ^^


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Is Scorpion even GM'ing the AP anymore? He hasn't said anything in weeks.


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Skeld wrote:

Overall, I liked SWSE. My players and i enjoyed the 1-20 level campaign we ran through. However, I disliked the skills vs. static defenses mechanic, especially at low levels.

-Skeld

Well, I own all the books they released, so I can say that I am a fan. However, the game also had its problems, like every system.

Anyway, getting quite OT here. :D


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Sure, the balance would be different, but IMO that is what is needed anyway to even out the high level problems. My main point is that you don't need to make the game so samey-samey as 4E turned out to be at every level, but it very probably is possible to file away problems like the large disparity in saving throws between classes at the high levels.

I am not sure if Raise Dead and Wish are the best examples to try to say that Saga and PF are not comparable, though. Saga made it quite harder for characters to die in the first place and Wish is a spell which gets cast maybe once in a typical adventure path campaign.


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houstonderek wrote:
So, basically, completely overhaul 3x. Pathfinder's scaling problems are built into the 3x engine, I'm afraid.

That is debatable. I think there are possibilities to reign in the high level problems. Star Wars Saga Edition (also a D20 game) made a fair stab at actually making high level combat feel more balanced than low-level combat (at the cost of making low-level combat feel more unbalanced, so it was not perfect by any measure ^^).


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Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
Could you tell me this: How does a feat like Divine Protection come into existance?

I've looked at that feat several different ways now and I don't see it as overpowered, at least not any more powered than the paladin's divine grace ability is overpowered. I can see the argument for the oracle since it relies on Charisma to cast spells but the cleric, inquisitor, and warpriest all use Wisdom, so that is going to be their highest stats. And even then, the inquisitor and warpriest do not have stats that make any use of Charisma and will have to put a 13 in something that could otherwise be a dump stat.

Comparing clerics in the NPC Codex took this feat, the majority would gain a +1 or +2 bonus. Well that is, those that qualified for it; plenty of them didn't meet the Charisma requirement. Sure, it is better than Iron Will and feats, but that feat doesn't require a minimum of an ability score that plenty of people use as their dump stat, a minimum of being 5th level, and limits it to 4 classes (only one of which makes heavy use of the Cha ability).

Like I said, I don't see that feat as being overpowered any more than the paladin is, which, I rank up with the summoner as being overpowered. In a game that routinely pits good vs evil, having a class who's mechanics are dedicated to fighting evil while all the rest are not is, IMHO, overpowered. Divine Protection does nothing more than spreads one aspect of the paladin to a few other classes that also receive power from a deity.

So ... I'm not really seeing the brokenness here.

I am actually quite shocked at this answer. Yes, this feat primarily is useful to Clerics and (especially) Oracles. That doesn't excuse how much incredibly better it is than any other comparable feat in the slightest.

Clerics should not be looked up from the NPC guide, given how this feat will primarily be taken by player characters (NPC's in AP's are mostly build with core book mechanics and only a smattering of other splat books, so I don't expect to see it showing up as often as it realistically should in future AP's). For PC clerics, the feat provides a rote +3 to +6 to all saves. For Oracles, it is very probably going to be a +8 to +10 to all saves at the midst of the campaign. This makes Oracles factually immune to all saving throw based threats, which is insane.

As for the Paladin, while I concur that it has a very tight and excellent package (I regard it as the best constructed class in the game), it also has some obvious problems, like non-evil opponents and the difficult to maintain alignment codex. And the Summoner is way, way more powerful than the Paladin, especially if you allow archetypes like the Master Summoner.


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Session of September 23rd 2014:

Six players in attendance.

The session pretty much was what I expected it to be last week. The aftermath of the finale of last week, leveling up, selling loot and getting new equipment. The encounter with Iomedae also fit into it and it went pretty well. Nobody was out of line, so I did not have to even think about how to handle disrespectful PC's. OTOH, it was a bit less than I hoped for with the Cleric and Ranger, who are both children of Iomedae, but if the players don't bite, then I can't do much about it.

Anyway, the party is well equipped and will get into the Ivory Labyrinth next week. That's a bit to prepare, to give them one interesting encounter and see if they go exploring a bit or head directly for Blackburgh.

And it seems that the next campaign has aquired an Investigator, which now makes the party Investigator, Urban Ranger, Slayer, Inquisitor and Bard. Quite the skillful party. ^^ I'll have to work to get player six (the current Samurai) to decide soon and work on a decent character background, or he'll just slop one character onto the stage on the day we start the campaign. Ah, well, the perils of being DM, I guess. ^^


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Well, no answer is also an answer. ^^


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Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
That is a matter of opinion. While they are top notch with their adventures, Jason Bulmahn and team are no slouches when it comes to RPG design. And I'm not just saying that because I wrote for them.

Could you tell me this: How does a feat like Divine Protection come into existance? I think it pretty much universally is reviled by the fans as being overpowered in its entirety. How does this pass the editing stage? After all, the Paizo developers also hold the RPG Superstar competition every year and I just can see how this feat would be received by the judges.


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Someone already did those upgrades, you'll need to search this board a bit for the appropiate thread.


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I am already at the end of my rope with six players. Good luck, man, good luck. ^^


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Oh, AP's over level 12 never have held up to a well-constructed party, but Mythic Adventures is every high level problem quadrupled. I can handly transitioning normal high level stuff from AP to the real work conditions, mostly. For MA, it just isn't doable.


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Brandon Hodge
Brandon Hodge
Brandon Hodge
Brandon Hodge

I may be somewhat of a fan.


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Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
We are a pretty angry lot, aren't we ? To be fair, and I asked Mr Jacobs about this, but taking the time to fix this mess would delay other products, and this might make even more people unhappy.

I paid something close to 200 Euros for a defective product (the state of which has been corroborated by dozens of people on this board, who had similar experiences with it), which has seriously hampered my enjoyment (and also the same for my six players) of my favorite hobby for the last year. And the excuse for the people selling this product is "yeah, sorry, got more important things to do".

I've said it elsewhere, but it bears repeating: This behaviour from Paizo would be inacceptable in the vast majority of other industries.

I am really astonished that the RPG market makes them such special snowflakes that they have dozens of fans who are falling all over themselves to make excuses for Paizo, instead of demanding that they fix their product (To prevent an misunderstanding, I am not talking about you at all here, but also rather about the general attitude on this message board. Y'know, those people who will almost always jump to Paizo's defense at the first sign of criticism).

Also disheartening to witness is that this attitude on the messageboard encourages Paizo to continue with their policy of "write books with large numbers of mistakes and bad math, don't correct (some) of those mistakes until a second printing, write half-hearted apologies, repeat". Yeah, we've heard sounds of "Occult Adventures will be better" after the ACG drew more complaints than most other releases (but also the same kind of "always defend Paizos mistakes or pretend they don't exist" crowd turned out in force), but this remains to be seen and we got a history of now five years of publishing this RPG behind us to see a clear trajectory.

I better stop now, or I'll be here for another hour writing up a filibuster.

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