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MagiMaster wrote:

UMD lets non-magic users cast spells from scrolls, which is enough for the creation of a magic item. Since scrolls are easier to obtain than rare components, anyone with UMD should prefer it over trying to quest for materials.

It's good the components are worth money. That also means you already have some idea of what they're worth. Do you allow that worth to count towards the GP requirements for magic items?

I have in the past based on the rarity of the item. For example, some necromancer may pay 10GPs for the tongue of a ghoul, but upward of 100GPs for some vampire dust. The greater the risk associated with the component required the greater the cost. I have also worked that the mundane item in question (ring, shoes, cloak, ect) does not have to be of masterwork quality if the component used is of very rare type. The way I have played it is that the power of the magical component can out weigh the value of the material items and cost needed.

Here is an example, player want to create a lesser mask of giants with these requirements:

Craft Wondrous Item, giant form I; Cost 15,000 gp (lesser), 45,000 gp (greater)

You can go the normal way and use the 15,000 gold and spell needed or you can substitute the giant form with the heart of a troll and 15,000 gold to create the same lesser mask, but if while doing this you instead use the heart of a storm giant, I would say that as you go thru the process of creating the lesser mask, the fact the heart of a storm giant was used, the mask turn out to be a mask of giant, greater. This is to reflect that the heart of a storm giant is a much more potent item then the heart of a troll.

I just like to do this to add flavor and imagination into the game. Mind you that this does not mean it will always happen, but if the PCs role play well, then these things happen to them :-)

MagiMaster wrote:

@Gauss, If crafting isn't right for the current game, that needs to be stated up front. Most of the posts I've read don't suggest this problem has anything to do with a specific campaign.

@mage4fun, The problem is that that does make crafting harder for your players. The original method does not require them to spend large amounts of in game time and energy tracking down these rare items. Your method does. That 1 day necklace (less than 1000 gp) just became a 1 week necklace and they may not have that kind of time.

Also, if they went and commissioned this necklace, the NPCs could probably do it in a day, since you'd likely rule they have the appropriate spell for simplicity sake. Except now the NPCs are better crafters than the players. (The in game reasons for this aren't important. The consequences are.)

As per my previous post, to make this acceptable, you need two things:
- These rare items are presumably worth something. That should count towards the GP requirement as well as anything else. (Actually, you could leave the +5 in there if they counted towards the GP. A +5 is usually not a significant increase in difficulty.) This way, they players will view these items as treasure and actively seek them out. It also means they have the chance to sell it if it turns out they can't find a use for it. (It'd be fair for for such stuff to sell at half price.)
- Some cheaper items should be purchasable. If the players are level 12 and want to make a wand of cure light wounds, are they really going to have to go hunting for fairy dust? The crafting cost is only 375 gp. Use the settlement rules and roll to see if they can find someone with some fairy dust for sale. Expensive stuff won't be available in most cases, but the cheap stuff should be. (Of course, this means that the cheap stuff will just be roll-the-dice-and-its-done, but do you really want to deal with a new quest for every single trinket?)

Also note that if you do this, there's still Use Magic Device that can bypass your entire system. So the...

I am not sure how UMD can work toward creating magical items ?

As to the materials, I have always tried to let PCs nkow that if they kill a magical beast/animal/whatever, that parts of the body will/can fetch gold. I always ran games in which wizards who may not feel comfortable adventuring would pay with large amounts of gold or other magical items for rare components from magical critters.

Imagine what a wizard would pay for the central eye of a beholder, or for the horns of a Balor? Adventures in which compensation can be gained not only for going and finding the treasure, but also for the parts that you can bring back to sell (or use yourself if you need them).

Gauss wrote:

Perhaps there is a miscommunication.

Rules state: X GP (the RP on that is not set), Materials, and Fireball. If you do not have Fireball increase DC by +5.

From what I understand you are ammending the part about not having fireball by adding 'and must have the blood of a hellhound'. At that point you ARE modifying the rules.

My position is that you do not need to modify the rules. Just roleplay out the acquisition of the GP amount of materials. Do not add a whole extra component.

It is a subtle difference and one that may not actually mean anything to your players but it is a difference in the mechanics. You are adding another item prerequisite. Just like the Masterwork property is required in making a +1 Long Sword you are requiring 'the blood of a hellhound'. That crosses from RP to mechanics.

Note: Blood of a hellhound is one example you used earlier that I can point to. I am sure other examples can be provided.

Personally, if a GM I was playing with made Crafting significantly more difficult than the rules intend I would have to seriously question whether or not I would take Craft feats with that GM ever again. Crafting is intended to be easy. Note: I am not saying you are making it more difficult. I am not at your table so I do not know how hard or easy you are making these extra requirements. But, I have seen GMs add extra requirements in the past all for 'RP' and it makes certain abilities just not worth it.

- Gauss

Yes I guess I am modifying them, but my intent was to replace the mechanical +5 to DC with something a that makes a bit more sense (in my mind).

Let me see if this clarifies a bit:

Person wants to create a necklace of fireballs (type I), requirements are craft wonderous item, fireball (spell I presume), and 825GPs. If you have these then you can craft the item. If you don´t then you can´t. Now there is a rule that states that if you do not meet the requirement add a +5 to the DC and you can make it.

So I need Craft Wonderous Item
I also need Fireball (spell I presume)
and I need 825GPs in material

Without being a spell caster or not having that spell
I need Craft Wonderous Item
+5 to DC
825 GPs

What I was looking at was to do something like this:
Need Craft Wonderous Item
825 GPs
And a substitute for the spell (in this case Fire Lizard Heart, hell hound blood, or some such thing associated with fire).

If multiple spells or spell like effect are required and the person creating does not have it, then I can add the +5 to the DC after the first requirement is satisfied. So if the example above required those 3 things and resist fire, then they would like this:

Need Craft Wonderous Item
825 GPs
And a substitute for the spell
+5 DC

?? gauss ??
I think we have a miscommunication here. I was working this out that if the person creating the wonderous item does not have the spell required, that they can substitute with something close to the spell. I am not saying that if an item requires X GP, materials, and Fireball, that you need that and the blood/heart of a hell hound, rather that if you do not have the fireball spell then supplement this with the heart/blood of the hell hound instead of just saying +5 to the DC and that is it.

As to the substitute materials, obtaining them can be the group meeting and killing a monster that fits the needed material, maybe the old crone that lives alone in the woods that people call, The Witch". Maybe said witch will give you the skin of a dopple ganger if you but bring her a white rose form the palace gardens.

These are all just ideas to get the PCs to have fun and play within the game instead of just rolling dice.

Gauss wrote:

Mage4fun: So what you are saying is 'provide me a roleplay reason that is also mechanical'. Fine, 'blood of a hellhound' could be part of the existing crafting costs. Then it is both RP and mechanical.

The mechanics are trying to simplify things. They do not presume that 'blood of a hellhound' is not added to the mix. That is left to the GM. They do presume that all materials that are required are included in the crafting cost. Even if that cost is just a GP total. Nothing states what that crafting cost is beyond just a GP total so it could be anything, including 'blood of a hellhound'.

For all we know anyone who crafts magic items takes a trip to the local 'strange creature body parts' shop and use the body parts purchased there in the item creation as the crafting costs. That is up to the GM. It does not change the mechanics. You are changing the mechanics in your attempt to add RP. Perhaps provide a GP value for the body part salvaged that contributes to the crafting cost.

- Gauss

But that is what I don´t want to do. I don´t want all things done with just "roll a dice and I am done". The excitement of knowing that you can make this if you can get the heart of a hag, or the quill of a manticore, these are the things that can help a game just happen or the reason to tie in several strangers to accept a quest (adventure). I want the PCs to feel like they are doing something more then just rolling dice and trying to out do each other or the GM. I have played where I will allow most things that go completely against the "rules/guidelines" of the game, but at that moment it is what makes the moment fantastic.

I guess I expect the game to create magic in the minds of the players and not just a chance that a die roll will make the decision for you :-(

Just in case I am the GM of the above mentioned game. For the longest I have always played that to create a magical item, something needs to infuse the object with the energies to create it. In many games I have always scavenged what I can from kills as they make great magical components, recall the old stories where "eye of newt and wing of bat" were needed :-)

In the above example I informed the player that just a mechanical +5 to make a piece of metal magical was not enough. The group he is with just killed a hell hound and I have encouraged players to look into the kills to obtain components. In this case the heart of a hell hound, the pelt, the blood, etc are all great components to be used in the event that you do not have the required spell. The example of the dragon is a bit extreme, but maybe that would be needed to create an Orb of the Dragon, which would allow control of a dragon of the type of heart you have. All this figures into the role-playing aspect that I normally try to play by.

There are a few stories in mythology and fantasy where having the part of a creature is needed to create or break something magical and I just love playing up to those old stories.

So the bottom line was that the +5 mech addition just did not do it for me, if you just want to roll-play, then I guess it would work, but if you want to role-play, then i ask that you look into how (or what) you can use to supplement the spell you do not have.

Once again I partially agree, but I do not accept it that a spell that is arcane changes to divine because the caster is divine. Here is a write up that agrees with what you are saying:

Arcane Archivist (Su): Your experience with lore-filled tomes has granted you the ability to cast arcane spells as if they were on your spell list. Once per day, you can cast a spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list as if it were on your list of spells known. The spell consumes a spell slot one level higher than the level of the spell. You must have a spellbook containing the spell to cast it in this way, and the spell is erased when you complete the casting.

the above states what you mentioned, that the spell is added as if it was on your list of spells know.

With the ancient lorekeeper it is a bit different

At 2nd level, an ancient lorekeeper's mastery of elven legends and philosophy has allowed her to master one spell used by elven wizards. She selects one spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list that is at least one level lower than the highest-level oracle spell she can cast. The ancient lorekeeper gains this as a bonus spell known.

No mention of adding it to your spell list or such, just that you cast said wizard/sorcerer (arcane) spell as 1 level higher then normal.

I believe that if Dragon Disciple needed to be allowed to arcane casters it would say so, by phrasing it as needing to cast 1st level arcane spells it leaves it open to classes (current or future) who may not be arcane caster but have access to arcane spells.

Vellas wrote:
No it means that any spell an oracle ever casts, is a divine spell. A divine caster can never cast an arcane spell, because arcane or divine depends completely upon who is casting it.

Confusion again, according to the write up from James Jacob he stated,

When picking your spell, pick from the class spell lists, not from the spells themselves, because that way you can always tell if the spells you're looking at are divine (they're in the antipaladin, cleric , druid, inquisitor, paladin, oracle, or ranger lists) or arcane (they're in thealchemist, bard, magus, sorcerer, summoner, wizard, or witch lists).

Therefore if I am an oracle that has access to gain spells from the wizard/sorcerer spell list, then I am taking arcane spells. What I understood from that write up is that spells are based on the list they come from. I understand that some spells appear across various lists and therefore if as a cleric you take a spell that is on your list and on a wizard list, it is still a divine spell as it comes from a divine list. Also from that write up if as an oracle I can access and cast wizard spells and I choose Magic Missiles, then I am casting an arcane spell that comes from an arcane list.

MagiMaster wrote:
The fighter with Master Craftsman can create a necklace of fireballs without being able to cast spells at all.

OK so then a 3rd level fighter (minimum of 3 ranks in craft) can some items throw them on a forge and bang on them to make a necklace of fire ball or slippers of spider climbing? Just like that without needing a fireball spell for the necklace or the spider climbing spell for the slippers?

I have always taken the aspect of creating magic to need the power of a spell to energize the item and to instill the function you are looking for. Thus if you want an item that will protect you from a certain element, the casting of resistance into the item was needed, same thing if you wanted the necklace of fireball, create the necklace and lace it with the power of a fireball spell to make it as such.

Based on what most are saying here there is no magic involved in making a magic item.

So does that mean that a spell (such as fireball, burning hands) are arcane and if an oracle gains these they are casting arcane spells ?? or the lore keeper who selects from the wizard/sorcerer spell list is considered casting arcane spell??

Selgard wrote:
mage4fun wrote:

Sorry to keep with this, but just want to make sure that I have this completely correct. Above Oracle situation is spells are divine in nature and therefor no to dragon disciple. If the oracle is an ancient lorekeeper with this mystery:

At 2nd level, an ancient lorekeeper's mastery of elven legends and philosophy has allowed her to master one spell used by elven wizards. She selects one spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list that is at least one level lower than the highest-level oracle spell she can cast.

Since she selects a spell from the wizard/sorcerers list (arcane), then she would meet the requirements for a Dragon Disciple, correct.

No, not correct.

As long as you are using a divine spellcasting class as the base, you are never going to get into Dragon Disciple. EVery spell an Oracle casts is divine.

If they get to pick a spell from the wizard spell list and add it to their spells known they are still casting it as a divine spell.

The only way you are going to get there is to find an archtype or mystery or something that changes their base, underlying spellcasting to "Arcane" rather than "Divine".


OK, I respectfully disagree, but I think I see where the difference in opinion comes from. Based on what everybody states here, regardless of where a spell comes from it is considered your base class type, Oracles, Inquisitors, Clerics, Druids, Paladins, and Rangers all cast divine spells regardless of the source and Wizards, Magus, Sorcerers, and Bards cast arcane spell regardless of the source.

In the case of the Oracle (as that is the one I am looking at) I disagree with that observation. In the oracle description it states that the oracle gains spells from the cleric spell list, which is true, but when it further describes of the gaining of spells from other sources, then they are from another source and treated as such. the base class may not be able to cast spells outside of their means (divine or arcane) but when an ability states it can, then there is no need to change it back, just because the base class is not the same as the source.

Unless there is something stating that a caster emulates a spell of another source or prays and is granted a spell that is similar to another, I will treat the source of the spell as such (arcane or divine). So in the above example it clearly states that the ancient lorekeeper can choose a spell from the wizard/sorcerer arcane list, therefore they are casting an arcane spell.

Again, this is my opinion of these rules and I am not attempting to change anyone´s mind, just that I respectfully don´t share your point of view.

Sorry to keep with this, but just want to make sure that I have this completely correct. Above Oracle situation is spells are divine in nature and therefor no to dragon disciple. If the oracle is an ancient lorekeeper with this mystery:

At 2nd level, an ancient lorekeeper's mastery of elven legends and philosophy has allowed her to master one spell used by elven wizards. She selects one spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list that is at least one level lower than the highest-level oracle spell she can cast.

Since she selects a spell from the wizard/sorcerers list (arcane), then she would meet the requirements for a Dragon Disciple, correct.

So then you are stating that a spell is neither divine or arcane, but based on who casts it?? I know that Fireball and Burning Hands are arcane evocation spells, but because they are granted to me as bonus spells they are treated as divine?

OK, but the idea is the same, if one creates an item (cloak, ring, boots, belt, hat, sword, armor, etc) and it is imbued with a spell like ability, wouldn´t that spell be needed to be cast on said object??

For example the necklace of fireballs states the following:

Construction Requirements

Craft Wondrous Item, fireball; Cost 825 gp (type I), 1,350 gp (type II), 2,175 gp (type III), 2,700 gp (type IV), 2,925 gp (type V), 4,050 gp (type VI), 4,350 gp (type VII)

So if i am a caster who does not have fireball as my spell, I can create a necklace and for an additional 5 to the DC create a necklace of fireball even though the creator can not cast the spell?!

A lot of talk about what this and that means, let me ask a question to get an idea of what most of you think.

I have an 7th level oracle, flame mystery. He can cast burning hands and fireball (traditional arcane spells). I also happen to have 6 ranks (not modified ranks) in Knowledge Arcane and speak draconic. Having this information, can I take a level in Dragon Disciple? the requirements are as follows:

To qualify to become a dragon disciple, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.

Race: Any non-dragon.

Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 5 ranks.

Languages: Draconic.

Spellcasting: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells without preparation. If the character has sorcerer levels, he must have the draconic bloodline. If the character gains levels of sorcerer after taking this class, he must take the draconic bloodline.

Since oracles are spontaneous casters and fireball and burning hands are Arcane spells, would I meet the requirements as written?

Following along on this thread, please clarify the following:

Divine spell caster with access to craft wonderous items feat. Said caster wants to craft a ring of protection from evil. Assuming he meets all material requirements, but does not have (can´t cast) the spell Protection from evil, can then he/she create a beautiful ring, increase the DC by 5 and without casting any spells create a ring of protection from evil ??

I am under the assumption that for a wonderous item to work, the effect (if it is a spell effect) that it is suppose to do needs the spell to be cast on the magic item.

I also use spell points for my casters as well (all of them) to make it a bit more diverse.

Mojorat wrote:
Yes werecreatures have full spell casting they can talk and make all the needed hand movements.

Thanks :-)

I want to expand on the Paizo Module D1 - Crown of the Kobold King. In the group I run, they found the young girl and she attacked them while they were busy with another encounter. She did not manage to kill (or seriously) hurt anyone, but she did manage to get away. I am thinking of bringing the werewolves of the Arthfell Forest to the Darkmoonwoods in an attempt to create a second power base. I think I will have Jeva act as a link to have a few of the were wolves be at the dwarf ruins when they complete the part of D1 underneath the ruins. Makes for a great surprise to find several werewolves waiting for you.

I have a questions about Lycanthropes, I have read about them in their base form, their animal forms, and their hybrid forms... before sending info that they receive this or that ability at this or that stage, what I would like to know is if I can do this:

Human is a 5th level cleric that is a werewolf (natural or afflicted), can the human go into hybrid form and cast spells? For that matter, can any Lycanthropes who assumes hybrid form and was a spell caster, can they cast their spells in hybrid form?


This is a bit old, but how does that apply to the oracle? Spontaneous divine caster.

Like someone else mentioned, I stumbled across roll20 and am really happy with it. It is a free web based VTT and within minutes I was able to put a few encounters together. I currently run two pathfinder games with 5 people per group. Some of them are from Finland, China, UK, and France, with the majority being from USA.

I was able to pull the maps form Hollow Last Hope and that is what I am running them thru :-)

Really easy, but in my case I do have a few issues with the audio so we are trying out Team Speak to see how that goes.

Really worth the look.


I also like for my characters to have back stories and I encourage my players for them to. In my case I look at the back story of my players to see how I can have some of those issues present themselves in the game. For example I have a player in my game that is an Ifrit sorcerer (elemental bloodline, flame), she was taken in by a human family as a child and during puberty she inadvertantly burned down her home. Those that took her in where killed and though no one actually thought that she did it, she was shunned (superstitious villagers). A wizard took her in and helped her develop her innate magical abilities (sorcerer). The wizard in the few years she was with him discovered that she was not human, but an Ifrit, but he never mentioned it to her. recently she has been having dreams of a place and in those dreams she sees a large forest, then a ruined structure and down in the bowels of the structure, what seems to be a fire pit. Just recently the dream changed and what she saw was a face looking at her from the fire pit.

This caused her to search this dream out.

In game I have an elemental being from the plane of fire trapped in the fire pit. The elemental being was trapped in the pit to keep the forges hot so the dwarves who originally captured it could make exquisite works of metal (mostly weapons). The elemental after being trapped in there for almost two centuries (since the dwarves sudden and not understood demise) has finally found someone it can connect with, thus the Ifrits back story helped with the arc of a future game :-)

This is something I have always done (and in consideration of other players) when I played a spell caster, I always write down the spells i can cast. I don´t need to memorize them, nor do I expect my player to memorize them either, but I do ask my players to have the info immediately available so that when they do cast them they know right then and there what it does. One of my pet peeves is when a players turn comes up and then they decide to look thru 2 or 3 books to see if the spell (or ability or whatever they are looking for) can do what they need or if it has a saving throw or a DC check or any other of things. This causes to much slow down time and the player that goes two players later id there with their head on their hands starting to yawn as he/she waits her turn.

So reminding them to keep information like that is not a jerk move, just presented in a fashion that was unexpected. Ask then if they ever got that feeling when they were asleep of falling and the sudden jerk they make when they wake up, when they (hopefully all) say yes that they recall that, tell them that is just what happened, except it happened for real when they fell down the 20 ft while asleep :-)

I thought that the only way to deliver a touch spell with a weapon is for classes that have arcane channeling?

On the above statements it sounds as if you are saying that if you cast chill touch, that since the spell is a touch attack that you can attack with (let´s say a) dagger to hit, damage, and use spell?

Granted that I am a bit new to pathfinder, but I did look up the conductive magic ability to understand it and it does state:

"A conductive weapon is able to channel the energy of a spell-like or supernatural ability that relies on a melee or ranged touch attack to hit its target (such as from a cleric’s domain granted power, sorcerer’s bloodline power, oracle’s mystery revelation, or wizard’s arcane school power)."

So, if you can please inform me how this (cast spell thru weapon) is a normal ability I would like to know. I currently do not allow this (as I did not think it was possible) with my group, but if I am in error, please point it out t0 me so that I can allow my group to do this if available.

I think that in this case, if it is available at first level, that the BAB can be bypassed, else they would have put it at the 10 level bracket.

blackbloodtroll wrote:
My question about this archetype is: Can the bonus Weapon Focus feat be taken at first level?

I was wondering about that also, since in order to take the feat you need to have a BAB of at least 1. This is from a FAQ and if a cleric can use an exotic weapon and be granted this, maybe it will also work for the weapon focus feat.

Cleric: Does a cleric, whose deity's favored weapon is the bastard sword, receive free martial or exotic weapon proficiency with the sword? (Core Rulebook, page 39 and 149)

Since the bastard sword is listed as an exotic weapon, he receives the Exotic Weapon proficiency with the weapon, allowing him to use it one-handed.

—Jason Bulmahn, 07/08/11

Also remember that an oracle also gets to cast any spell that has the word cure in it for free. So a level one cleric will get cure light wounds for free and at second cure moderate, and so on. Here is the actual wording:

In addition to the spells gained by oracles as they gain levels, each oracle also adds all of either the cure spells or the inflict spells to her list of spells known (cure spells include all spells with “cure” in the name, inflict spells include all spells with “inflict” in the name). These spells are added as soon as the oracle is capable of casting them. This choice is made when the oracle gains her first level and cannot be changed.

Cheapy wrote:

1) The six is probably a mistake.

2) The spell needs Range: Touch in its Effect portion. Since personal spells are Range: Personal, they cannot use this ability with personal spells.

I agree with #2, but wanted input from others so it did not come off like I just did not want to do it. I think the first may have been a typo, was just hoping that someone could point me to an errata (if one exists) on this point.

thanks for the response :-)

Hello, I was trying to find an errata for this, but was not successful. In the crusader write up the following is written:

A crusader gains a bonus feat at 1st level, then again at 5th level and every five levels thereafter (to a maximum of six at 20th level).

But if I get a bonus feat at 1,5,10,15,20, that makes only 5 bonus feats, not 6. Is the above suppose to state "to a maximum of five at 20th level" or is there a feat somewhere that I am not seeing?

Also with the crusader they receive this:

At 8th level, a crusader gains the ability to confer beneficial spells quickly to a large group of allies. As a full-round action, the crusader may confer the effects of a single harmless spell with a range of touch to a number of creatures equal to half her cleric level. The spell’s range remains touch, so all intended recipients must be within the crusader’s reach when the spell is cast.

Do all spells need to say touch in them or can a spell of personal also be conferred.

I have a player who wants to run a crusader and is inquiring. I thought i should ask here to get a general consensus on this.

Thanks everyone.

TriOmegaZero wrote:
After the PaizoCon banquet, I think the answer is "Paizo's own VTT". :)

PaizoCon banquet ? ? ?

I use roll20 and I really like it. A friend used to use to share his map on-line with his group (some in Georgia, one in Washington state, another in South Carolina) once I mentioned Roll20 to him, they have moved to roll20 and google hangouts.

I use it to run a pathfinder game (though I am a bit new to pathfinder system) during the weekdays with a few people I met at the roll20 forums.

It really is easy to use and prep time can be minimal. There is a lot of user input for future feature releases and the creators are listening to what the public is asking for.

Try out Roll20 at

Free VTT with built in video and audio. Easy to use and learn. Once I looked at it I was able to put together a few encounters within minutes.

I have recently stumbled upon a new VTT called Roll20, which happens to be free. Their web site is and there is a large community of players who are looking to meet others for game. You can download maps, use token and the program has a built in video and audio system. There are a few snags with the audio in some cases, but using skype or oovoo can take care of the audio problem. Like most other VTTs lining up grids can be a challenge, but it is a lot easier then Maptools. I tried using maptools before, but I had a hell of a time trying to figure it out to make it work, with Roll20 I was able to create a few encounters really quickly and easily.

Give it a try and you may like it.

While most tablet devices are android or Ipad based, the new surface is going to be windows based. With the success of tablets, I guess microsoft wants to get into the game.

The one thing about the surface that I liked very much is that the cover when open becomes your keyboard. I think that is a very nice touch. It would also mean that most things you use on your (Microsoft based) desktop computer, will be usable on your Surface tablet with out the need for conversion.

I was just looking at this, if this is used, how do you get to keep it private? I am using Roll20 as my VTT (Virtual Table Top) and this looks like a great way to keep track of party information. If I use this i would be interested in knowing that only I or those players I give access to can use it. Is there a tuturiol or FAQ on how to use this?

D20 Software wrote:

Hi all! My name is Alex and I wanted to share my IndieGoGo campaign with you all. I'm trying to create the ultimate Pathfinder app, so that you can take all of your game with you wherever you go, right on your phone or tablet! Some of the features the app will have are listed below. Right now I'm looking for backers, as well as ideas for what else could make this app the complete go to resource for lovers of Pathfinder!

  • A fully functional character sheet, allowing you to manage all of your character attributes directly from your phone or tablet, including inventory and stats.
  • Character generator, so you can roll up a random character on a moments notice, perfect for those on the fly pickup games.
  • A fully functional spellbook, which will allow users to not only manage the spells they know, but the spells they have memorized for the day.
  • A rulebook, containing all of the openly licensed rule sets, in a convenient to use and easily searchable fashion. Take everything you need to play with you on your phone or tablet, no need to cast Floating Disc just to carry your rulebooks around anymore.
  • Built in dice roller. I can't guarantee your DM will allow it, but I can guarantee they will be fair and fun!
  • A beautiful and intuitive UI, made to look like an old book... very geek chic! You'll never want to go back to pen and paper again. It'll be so beautiful that even pen and paper purists will be tempted!
  • Make the app available in as many formats as possible. Right now, if the funding is successful, both an Android and an iOS version will be developed. If funding is successful, a Windows Phone version would be a stretch goal.

Check it out @ IndieGoGo

If you like this, please share the link ( as much as you can, as this can only be a success with help from the community.

*I checked the FAQ and it didn't appear that there were any rules against this sort of post. Apologies in advance if this is...

You may want to talk to the folks at

There is a request for character sheets of all game types (not just pathfinder). Maybe there is a way to attach you sheet to their virtual table top.

ZomB wrote:

PFSRD says: "The spells detect magic, identify, and analyze dweomer all reveal command words if the properties of the item are successfully identified."

That is helpfully mentioned in the Command Word section where it mentions how you can also use knowledge history or arcana DC30 to identify command words.

Unfortunately when they reworked the 3.5 Identify spell and just gave a bonus to spellcraft they didn't copy the phrase from the 3.5 spell into spellcraft: "The spell determines all magic properties of a single magic item, including how to activate those functions (if appropriate), and how many charges are left (if any). "

Can a person take 10 or 20 on a spellcraft check?

joriandrake wrote:
LazarX wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

Can a Human with the Racial Heritage feat take levels in Racial Class Archetypes?

Note: These Archetypes were introduced in the Advanced Race Guide.
No... Classes, Archetypes are NOT Effects. Effects are things that are done onto you, i.e.spells, bane weapon strikes, those sorts of things. You get take what the trait SPECIFICALLY states what you can take, nothing else. Traits, feats, that's it.

they are "and so on"

I would say a human growing up among elves and similar can take elven archetypes (as example), everything in the rules points to this too

If you think about it this is just natural, the character has a heritage of them and more often than not also grew up among them.

That's a bit funny. The human who grew up with the elves may be able to qualify for the Arcane Archer (since he is considered an elf) but while being a wizard or sorcerer can´t use the bow as a racial weapon because he was not allowed to handle it.

Elf looking down on the human supplicant requesting to master the secrets of the bow, "Aye, we will show you how to weave the arts arcane with the flight of the arrow, but you need to go somewhere else to train (aquire the feat martial weapons) to use the bow.

Furious Kender wrote:
mage4fun wrote:

I had a similar question to this feat. If I took the Racial Heritage; Dwarf would I then be able to use dwarven weapons as if I was a dwarf? i.e. would I be able to use the dwarven war axe as a martial weapon (since I am dwarven blooded and I am considered a dwarf under the , and so on, category).

Also if you can take racial traits and be affected by bane weapons to that specific race, then I think you should also be allowed to advance in those classes or paragon classes associated with your other racial heritage.

Regardless of the rest of the argument, Racial Heritage would never allow you access to racial traits (such as dwarven weapon familiarity or halfling slow speed) without an additional feat specifically allowing you to do that. In short, counting as an orc does not give you darkvision any more than counting as a dwarf gives you dwarven weapon familiarity.

That is why I stated that I can understand physical attributes. A weapon familiarity is not a specif racial trait such as darkvision or low light vision. The use of items (dwarven or elven or what ever) is more a cultural decision then a racial one. I understand that weapon familiarity is due to being around those items and there fore you can use them, just like the elf who can use a bow regardless of class. If your heritage is such that you expend the feat to pick up the traits and mannerism of the culture you are adopting, then you should be able to pick up those skills and non-physical aspects of the race.

I have notice that most people here treat weapon familiarity as if it was a racial (as in born with) ability, I see weapon familiarity as just being around those weapons so often and using or handling them on such a regular basis, that they are just normal (martial) weapons to you.

I had a similar question to this feat. If I took the Racial Heritage; Dwarf would I then be able to use dwarven weapons as if I was a dwarf? i.e. would I be able to use the dwarven war axe as a martial weapon (since I am dwarven blooded and I am considered a dwarf under the , and so on, category).

Also if you can take racial traits and be affected by bane weapons to that specific race, then I think you should also be allowed to advance in those classes or paragon classes associated with your other racial heritage.

Just dropping a few copper pieces down.

I think that when all is said and done, if the group you are in agrees with the idea (one way or the other) then the group will run with it.

Umbranus wrote:

No. You only count as a dwarf but you don't get any racial abilities.

So you neither get weapon familiarity nor do you get darkvision.

I think that the last bit in the last sentence (and so on) needs to be clarified a bit. What aspects of the racial "things" fall in to the category "and so on" ?

I can understand the physical aspects of the race not being part of racial heritage (size, vision, resistance(?), and such, but a familiarity with a weapon seems to fall into the concept of adhering to that racial heritage background. Just my view on how the feat seems to work.

Hello, I have a question on the feat, Racial Heritage outlined below:

Prerequisite: Human.

Benefit: Choose another humanoid race. You count as both human and that race for any effects related to race. For example, if you choose dwarf, you are considered both a human and a dwarf for the purpose of taking traits, feats, how spells and magic items affect you, and so on.

Based on how it is written, will I be able to do this.

Human with racial heritage; Dwarf

Dwarven war axe would be considered a martial weapon for me instead of an exotic weapon?

Someone mentioned to me a concept of a barbarian sorcerer called spell rager, but not much more. Have not seen the wiki page you guys have until now. Will keep an eye open over there.

I have a question on the spellrager. Based on the write up this class does not get spells, except for the bloodline spells?

Quintin Belmont wrote:

on a different note here's my Witch/Cleric MCA:

** spoiler omitted **...

Anyone created a Monk/Sorcerer type? Are there plans for an expansion in which the Advance Players Guide base classes are included?

Due to both casting spontaneous chma based spells an Oracle/Sorcerer or Sorcerer/oracle would also be nice.

harmor wrote:

This free tool did exactly what I wanted (extracted the images without the text overlay):

Some PDF Image Extract

I recommend you though selecting a page range because I ran this against the first book of the Council of Thieves and it extracted 739 images!

Adobe Reader X also extracted the image when you right click on it and say "Copy Image" so not sure if you need to install this tool if you just want a couple of images.

I tried the program, but unfortunately the images still came thru with numbers and text :-(

I am also trying to get the Hollow´s Last Hope series (D0 - D1.5) maps with out the details so I can use it on Roll20 VTT.

Bobson wrote:

But your sorcerer level doesn't go up unless you take a level of sorcerer. So there would be no point in specifying "blood line level". There's not a single feat, trait, magic item, prestige class, or other ability which increases your sorcerer level, except for taking a level of sorcerer. There's plenty of things which stack with your sorcerer level to determine what you get - spell casting in prestige classes. Bloodline in the dragon disciple. I think there's some magic items too... But nothing ever increases your overall sorcerer level beyond the number of times you've leveled as a sorcerer.

Arcane archer says:

At the indicated levels, an arcane archer gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain other benefits a character of that class would have gained, except for additional spells per day, spells known (if he is a spontaneous spellcaster), and an increased effective level of spellcasting.
You don't gain a sorcerer level. You increase your spellcasting as if you had gone up another level in sorcerer. In other words, arcane archer levels stack with sorcerer levels to determine what you're capable of casting. But they're still not more sorcerer levels.
except for additional spells per day, spells known (if he is a spontaneous spellcaster), and an increased effective level of spellcasting.

As the last line states and an increased effective level of spell casting. So back to the original question, a levl 1 sorcerer who has thunderstaff at 1st lvl, then takes 4 levels of Arcane Archer would have an effective level of 4.

Thunderstaff (Sp): At 1st level, you can touch a weapon as a standard action, giving it the shock property for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your sorcerer level (minimum 1).

The above states 1/2 your sorcerer level, based on the fact that classes that increase your effective level of spellcasting, then thunderstaff should work as if you are a 4th level sorcerer, there fore the shock ability stays for two rounds. I see this similar that the same character if it casts magic missiles it would fire off two missiles instead of one, because the sorcerer is a level 4 "effective spellcaster".

Gauss wrote:

mage4fun: spellcaster level is not the same thing as sorcerer level.

A sorcerer X grants you a spellcaster level X. Then the wording in the prestige classes states that you gain spells per day, spells known, and an increased caster level.

Your level dependant abilities do not increase if they are not spells per day, spells known, or increased caster level.

Since you are not advancing in anything besides spellcasting ability you do not ever gain Stormchild. You do not advance in Thunderstaff. These are not spells. They are not spellcasting ability. They are special abilities that the Sorcerer grants but other classes do not grant.

Instead, Arcane Archer gives you other special abilities.

Back in 3.0/3.5 Sorcerer's had absolutely zero reason to stay a sorcerer as soon as they could switch to a prestige class. Now they do have a reason. Choose the concept (and special abilities) you want and go with it. You wont be able to get everything you want.

- Gauss

I partially agree with you. To clarify all of this then Thunderstaff (or any blood-line ability) should state something along the lines of "per sorcerer blood-line level" and not just "per sorcerer level".

Again, I am not stating that the added class levels to the AA should add any new blood line benefits (I understand that), just that if your sorcerer level goes up, then those things tied to "per sorcerer level" should go up as well.

I just looked at something call Roll20 and it is free and easy to use. It is not specifically designed for any game system, but it will make your virtual table top easy to use and free.

Here is the link

I played Rolemaster a long long time ago in a galaxy far away.. err... got distracted.

But seriously, I enjoyed Rolemaster for the fact that combats could be very deadly and the players had to think thru how to go about a combat situation. My best example to compare the Rolemaster combat system and D&D was this situation:

You are a warrior (7th level, 50 hps) going down a long tunnel and when you are approximately 75ft from the end two kobolds appear at the end with bows at the ready.

In D&D you could just charge down the tunnel as you don´t really have to fear the damage the kobolds will inflict, but in Rolemaster there is a potential that an arrow can kill you or hurt badly.

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