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Organized Play Member. 5 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 4 Organized Play characters.


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Rami wrote:
Assuming he and the girl he comes with are an 'item'... is there anything more pathetic to get offended over? Really... it has nothing to do with it being a girl and guy gamer... they way they act around each other leads me to believe they're an item, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Big whoop. Somehow me making that assumption completely overwrites the fact that I kept my cool with him so that i wouldn't risk alienating two people. You're all pisses off... oh well, its a game.

I understand that text makes it difficult to discern the tone with which something is said. I would like to clear this one thing up as I really have nothing further to say on any of the events, since I think any more argument on the point really just degrades the credibility of what's already been said.

I am actually not offended at all about the assumption. However your logic of our behavior together, which would normally be sound, is not. I could easily point out that under the same observed behavior from other people we have more frequently been mistaken for siblings than bf/gf. My only reason for making the statement was to clarify the relationship in hopes that people would not see my argument as a one sided blind defense of a significant other. Does this overwrite your credibility? No. Did you keep your cool with him? In game, questionably yes, but obviously not otherwise. Did wither your assumption or your behavior toward him alienate me? No, I could care less if you think I'm with someone or not or if the two of you get along (as long as it isn't disrupting anyone's else's fun.)

My friends were wrong to outright call you a power-gamer. They however were not wrong to call out the build (notice no one outright claimed it to be intentional cheating, leaving it open to interpret whether it was just a misunderstanding of PFS organized play) and to later suspect the build of the barbarian (who is to say that you had been corrected in the mean time?). As for the dice rolls, everyone has streaks of luck that bring them into suspicion at one point or another in their gaming "career". It happens. You learn to roll more visibly to assuage the rest of the table for a while and get over it.

Nobody is asking you to leave, in fact finding ways to keep both you and Bo and avoid conflict had been attempted via e-mails with Russel between the responses and the most recent game. I don't like the idea of keeping the two of you at separate tables because it will eventually wind up the same groups at the same tables all the time and kind of defeat the reason for many of us to be participating in Society play. Unfortunately, for now, until the two of you can work out your issues like big boys, it seems it will have to do.

The rest of us are fine with gaming with you as long as you can build and play a character that is conducive to party oriented behavior in an organized play setting. I will agree with TwilightKnight, while Rami was a great character concept and a great idea, he was not suitable for PFS environments, nor is a dwarf who sees no reason to talk to his "co-workers" and bulls ahead with no regards to their wishes. Now knowing our personalities and play styles a little better this should not be a difficult thing to do.

Best of luck whatever you decide.


Supposed girlfriend of said offender reporting in here (btw, please do not assume that just because a female gamer frequently shows up with the same male gamer that they are together as such). I suppose since I was the one to find this thread (while searching on peaceable solutions to problem players, incidentally) and pass it on to the others who have chimed in already, I should drop in my piece, previously dead thread or not.

I can, with utmost certainty, say that the player of Rami here is a poor judge of a real persons character. Proof being in the fact that for several months, while my friend was unable to attend due to a job schedule change, I faithfully attended on my own. Even in cases where I was certain that I would not know the people I was going to play with. The assumption that causing my friend to leave would most likely take me out as well, is fairly unfounded. This minor bit of my personal character now being defended, I have a few things to say on the true matter of this thread.

Now, for the matter of his characters: Bosau Fragor, the Sorcerer you had the displeasure of playing 4 out of 5 sessions with, is indeed a certifiable jerk. This incarnation as well as the first (having been in a home game) had fairly shady actions, though none stepping truly outside the tennents of CN into flat out evil and malicious. During that home game, that particular character found himself staring down the ugly under-bite of my own LN Monk on account of his questionable behavior, nearly resulting in violence then as well. He was played no differently in society than he had been then. However I see here that you can cite no specific cases of this character causing direct problems in Society. As for his alignment, selfishness is decidedly a whole definition of a CN character, though Rami has committed some decidedly selfish acts himself while claiming to be a NG character.

Churles Puffymuffin, the gnome character cited as a trouble maker for the purposes of this argument, was played only for one session. A session in which all party members save yours and mine (who had previously not had any known issues with each other) were brand new, in an attempt to broker better party synergy and comraderie. Churles was initially played in an amiable manner, as were the other replacements. However, despite this, you continued to play Rami as though each and every one of them had made an a personal affront to him (a good case of being unable to separate player and character opinions, I believe). It was only after Rami flat out demanded that the party leave behind part of their gold for his god, that any trouble arose whatsoever. There were a few moments of bickering, followed by an Intimidate check which was ignored by all, due to it being a deliberately aggressive action (which I believe to be a wise decision). Seeing another party member threatened by a supposed ally, the rest of the party (the majority of which were gnomes and doing so out of racial kinship as much as a desire to deter inter-party squabbles)did in fact jump to Churles's aid, threatening retaliation in return if further attempts to force anyone to leave their share of the loot were made. It was at this point at which the DM stepped in with the suggestion that part or all of Rami's share may be left behind, without anyone else sacrificing their share. This was accepted, though with little grace (whether this was IC or OOC I could not tell and have little care to worry about this far after the fact).

At this point, Churles, in character (being a Cavalier, much likened to Sir Didymus and very concerned for his personal honor), did the most harmless (and might I add Gnomish, which I will cite in a moment here as cannon behavior for the race) thing he could to return the slight, when he very well could have claimed that his honor demand martial satisfaction for the offense (and abstained due to it being an agressive action). While yes, this was childish, childish behavior is decidedly Gnomish (again to be cited later on).

That said, Prestidigitation lasts an hour of in game time and can easily be undone by another cast of the same spell. Churles, being a Cavalier and not a spell caster, gained his one use a day of the spell from Gnomish magic. Rami, being a cleric, having used prestidigitation to clean the room in the first place and having unlimited usages of it, could immediately clean it again. Even if the other 3 gnomes had chosen to waste their castings of Prestidigitation to dirty the place up again, those actions all together take less than 5 minutes of real world time, even if it wasted a few hours of In-game time in a non-time sensitive Adventure Path. Even being a faction mission (which none of the rest of us had any way of knowing), it in no way prevented him from gaining the prestige for cleaning the place up, as say casting a Desecrate spell might have. So I must ask, is less than a bathroom breaks worth of real world time really worth fussing over OOC when it was a completely harmless act?

Now, to cite this as gnomish behavior I could quote endless passages from Gnomes of Golarion as to their culture and views. They are very closely related to Fey. Fey in the world of Golarion are not the nice, flower wearing, dust sprinkling, Disneyworld version. They are the old world, capricious, pranksters from mythology. The kind that would pull a rug out from under an old man if they thought it would be funny, with little thought as to if they might accidentally break his hip. Not a decidedly evil act because they didn't do it to specifically injure him, they just were not necessarily aware of the consequences of their prank.

Specific instances of this in Gnomes of Golarion:

"One minute they’re laughing with childlike
glee over the shape of a particular cloud or displaying
their vast collection of insect heads, and the next they’re
singing a happy tune while wallowing shoulder-deep in
the intestines of a slain enemy."

"Their ethics and mindsets are inscrutable, and their senses of
humor creative and disturbing."

"That’s not to say there aren’t evil gnomes—and when a gnome goes
bad, he tends to be even more grotesquely creative than
most—but rather that, for those used to dealing with
gnomes, unexplained and crazed behavior isn’t seen as
inherently sinister, and most people living near gnomes
spend a lot of time practicing tolerance and extending
the benefit of the doubt." (I will accept that the character, Rami, had little experience with Gnomes and Gnomish culture and may perhaps have seen this as sinister when it was not).

Also the entire section entitled "The Spirit Of Fun" is a perfect example of how this is Gnome behavior, not maliciously or evilly intended action. Especially the part stating that often Gnomes who find someone to, in their opinion, "have a stick up their butt", will do things to them to incite interesting reactions in an attempt to lighten them up. Rami, as a character would well qualify under such a classification by Gnome standards and likely fall victim to many of their "pranks".

I will give kudos to the decision to play him as an overly prideful character. It does make a decent amount of sense and it is not a far stretch that a proud man might choose to follow Irori in order to become more perfect than he already thinks he is, completely misconstruing the teachings of his chosen god. The consideration to a change in alignment is, admittedly, a very flavorful and sensible character choice. I could easily see doing the same thing with a character, perhaps to finally realize what the teachings meant after all and return to the original alignment with a renewed look on the faith. (Not to say this is what you have chosen to do with him, just the musings of an outside view). However, some in character choices that have been made have been incredibly detrimental to the party, far from endearing Rami to them. When you go into combat as a cleric, you can't expect people not to bleed, you can't expect them not to get dirty or grime covered, and you can't expect them not to hold it against you when you blatantly tell them in character-that you have the capability to heal them, but would rather let them bleed out than get your hands dirty. That, to me as well as many other people would not be seen as conducive to the "friendly gaming atmosphere" that Pathfinder Society is supposed to be about. It's one thing to fling a little dirt around a temple that can easily be cleaned up. It's entirely another to knowingly and intentionally leave a player character to die a final death(resurrection spells being too costly at low to mid levels).

I could, after listening to the events at the table you both occupied last night, cite several more instances of antagonistic behavior on your part (to an entirely new, differently aligned and differently behaved character) to support the belief that you are not as willing to step away and "see how the next character is run" as you claim to be. Of course, I could also cite more instances of reciprocated behavior on his part. However, this is not the direction I really want to take this as it was meant really as a defense and not an attack. The finger pointing could go back and forth all day, but what this mess really comes down to is a clash of two personalities perceived to be the player instead of the character. Even more unfortunately, a likely irreparable mess since both of you have a preconceived notion of the other regardless of the character you're playing and an inability to get past it.

*Edited for spelling error.


I'm female and I tend to play a lot more female characters, but my male characters generally wind up being my favorites.


It certainly works better than Lithium batteries, more enviro-friendly too!

The next poster moved my cheese...


You mean I'm not? *gasp*

The next poster once mistook an orcs bathwater for homebrew beer.