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Silver Dragon

leo1925's page

5,199 posts. 20 reviews. 3 lists. 1 wishlist.

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I like the general idea of mythic but i also believe that (at least for the PCs part of the mythic) it really needs to be revised, i haven't read the "house rule suggestions" for mythic that Legendary Games (along with others) has put out in their mythic mania so i don't know if most of the job is already done.

cibet44 wrote:

I think a crux of getting to high levels in a 6-part AP is partially due to the exponential increase in XPs to get to those high levels. I never understood why PF chose to do this. It seems like it should take less XPs to get from say 15-20 level then it does to get from 1-10 level.

Once a party is say 15th level they should essentially have one epic "event" that moves them to 16th and so on. High level PCs should abandon adding up XPs and just focus on successfully completing "events" to gain a levels. So the last book of an AP can be a series of 5 "events" that move the party to 16,17,18,19,20 levels.

These events can be things like:

- Defeating a Mythic Monster (Mythic abilities should never apply to PCs, just abandon that concept completely. Encounter a Mythic Monster, defeat it, level up. Im sure this type of battle can last for "real time" hours and "in game" days in the hands of a prepared GM as the monster retreats, recovers, hunts down the group again and so on. In fact, Mythic monsters shouldn't even have XP values they should just give a level and be very very rare and almost unstoppable.)
- Travel out of the solar system to a distant location (once at this location the PCs can have some encounters but the act of getting there means a level. The PCs could have to navigate a series of tasks and/or encounters to do this but the XPs really don't matter for these things. All that matters is setting foot on Planet X.)
- Destroy an entire evil (or good) location (this can be a city, stronghold, island, planet,demi-plane, whatever. The PCs must use their abilities to utterly remove it from existence. Once this is done: gain a level. The defenders of this location may put up a fight of course but those XPs don't matter and you probably wouldn't even do normal combat for them.)

Granted this is all a bit of a departure from the existing model but my larger point is XP calculation at high levels should be removed or drastically shortened. I don't understand why the XP gaps between higher levels...

That's part of what i like to call the "XP problem", i think that the APs would be a lot better if XP isn't used at all. That way APs could have more freedom with the encounter design which means a lot of things like not putting padding "filler" encounters in order to have PCs reach the level they need in order to face the real encounters that make sense and add to the adventure or make the encounters how they need to be in order to make a better game and adventure without worrying about the PCs getting too much XP, and of course a lot of other good things.

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First of all don't mess with the player's wish, unless the wish comes from a Glabrezu (or similar source).

Secondly the no cost isn't needed because SLAs don't have material components.

Thirdly i suggest telling the player that you aren't comfortable with an at will permanency but you are prepared to give him permananency SLA once per day.

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Rogar Valertis wrote:
HeHateMe wrote:
Shroud wrote:

You can never go wrong with Curse of the Crimson Throne. Well written and a LOT of fun to play.

In other news......Aasimars? Really? They are unbalanced and cheesy as hell. Usually played by people interested in bonuses without penalties instead of roleplaying opportunities. I usually place them in a category of "Ultra-Rare Choices" for my players, along with Tieflings and any other non-core race. I allow a single choice from that pool per campaign....and they can decide among themselves who gets to select it for that campaign. Then again, I am always concerned with preserving the atmosphere of the world region the game is set in. Which means you're not going to find Irrisen witches in Katapesh or Mwangi Shamans in Tien except in the rarest and strangest of circumstances.

Dude, Aasimars are the best. Playing a guy who's part Celestial is full of flavor. To me at least, they're much more interesting than tired old Elves, Dwarves and Halflings.

Sure... And they also happen to be OP compared to other races. How fortunate!


If "keeping players happy" translates to "giving them whatever they want, ballance, flavour and roleplay be damned" then I don't want my players to be "happy". And in my experience this is not that big of a problem, if you know how to be firm.

threadjack about non standard races:

Why do you think that Aasimars are overpowered?
Is it the customizable ability score bonus or the fact that their type isn't humanoid and it's outsider or something else?

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In the beggining (RotRL 1) there were the 7 virtues of rule that got twisted, corrupted, misinterpreted, focused on the negative side etc. by the runelords and then ended up being known nowadays as the 7 sins, those virtues and the sins they became are:

wealth--> greed
fertility--> lust
honest pride--> pride
abundance--> gluttony
eager striving--> envy
righteous anger--> wrath
rest--> sloth

Now on the RotRL AE without changing the lore of Thassilon (as far as i can see) the seven virtues and sins became:

generosity--> greed
love--> lust
humility--> pride
temperance--> gluttony
charity--> envy
kindness--> wrath
zeal--> sloth

With those virtues-sins it doesn't make sense, they are polar opposites instead of twisted, corrupted etc.

Why do you think this change made?

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burkoJames wrote:
redpandamage wrote:

The OP doesn't say if he did it all with one attack, maybe he was TWF?

Edit: He does have TWF, if he doubles the crit that would be 75 with a couple bonuses he could get 80.

best I see with a dagger and Dex to damage and power attack he could get 11 damage at level 5. if he crit with both attacks and rolled max damage, that's 44 damage. sneak attack on both could get him an extra 36, if he rolls max on his 2 sets of 3d6. so he could just hit 80 damage. I call shenanigans for him to roll all that to the max after simultaneous crits.

Same here.

If we are wrong we really need to see his character sheet, you never know, he could have discovered something amazing for rogues.

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Turin the Mad wrote:
The old Dungeon adventures ARE AP's. That's where the term came from. Of the current crop, RoW and S&S are probably the nastiest.

I insist on Carrion Crown, for added masochism maybe run it without a full divine class.

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And let's not even consider the critical fumbles on attack rolls, that leads to the hilarious case where the full bab characters become more prone to accident the higher their level.

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JAMRenaissance wrote:
leo1925 wrote:

More likely the wizard will take the 23000 of his share, craft gear worth 46000 and spend the other 2000gp on things he can't craft but

YES!!!! THANK YOU for understanding.

Ah. I understand. At which point I say...

... and this doesn't happen now why?

Yes, the Magic Mart lets them conveniently get what they want by paying double, but nothing is stopping the Wizard from doing that currently.

Because now the caster may won't do that (for various reasons) but you will force him to do that.

The point i was trying to make is that unless you make sure that the martial will never need to buy or ask for crafting anything then you didn't help the martials, at best you have made them into "beggars" and at worst you have made them weaker.

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JAMRenaissance wrote:

leo1925 wrote:

Yes, that's what i said, that's what is going to punish the martials.

What, i think, you don't get is that the loot that is either found as treasure or taken from the enemies belongs to everyone and not just the martials, to use your example that belt of STR+2 belongs to the whole party, which means that the fighter has 1/4 and the wizard has another 1/4.

Ummm... I'd say the Wizard that wants to quibble about their 1/4 of the cost is being a jerk. The martial eventually gives it to them as their share of the loot, and takes the next item that they are likely to be able to use.

Seriously... the spellcaster that does that better have a bunch of "Summon Monster"s,because their martial friends are going to abandon them pretty quick.

What kind of stupid bully martials do you have?

A party member (the wizard) asks for their fair share of the loot, the martial calls him a jerk, then (this is the stupid part) the martial doesn't take the useful magic item from the loot*, then steals from the party a useful (to the wizard) magic item and then he blackmails the wizard with abandoning him.

Are all of your martial PCs like that?

*which means that now the martial has to go and pay double in order to get the item

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eakratz wrote:
Slumbering Tsar as an obituary table included, if that tells you anything.

So does Rappan Athuk but aren't both of them megadungeon APs?

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I think that the most difficult PF AP is the Carrion Crown and that's because it gives the players loot that is below WBL (while hitting with status effects all the time), keep in mind that the usual loot (for APs) is usually 1.5-2.0 x WBL.
I think that you can make a lot of the APs difficult by cutting the loot given to players to half (or more) and maybe either ban the crafting feats* or put them in the clock.

*actually just banning the craft wondrous items and craft magic arms and armor would be enough

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The fact that many people believe (I don't know why) that a nat 1 on a skill check is auto fail (or worse) and that a nat 20 on a skill check is auto success.

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Slithery D wrote:
leo1925 wrote:

Where does it say no violence in the text of charm person? All it says is
"An affected creature never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders"
and the rules on charmed say
"A charmed character never obeys a command that is obviously suicidal or grievously harmful to him."

How are those things different?

There's a difference between "harmful" and "harmful to you." Ordering me to punch my gerbil is a harmful order. Punching a grizzly bear is an order that would be grievously harmful to me.

Ok now i see it, i didn't think it that way, thank you.

I think that you are taking the harmful part of the sentence out of context (i am saying that because it comes after the suicidal part) but i can understand your (and probably alexd1976's) point.

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j b 200 wrote:
Arcane Addict wrote:
Ooh! I completely forgot about Rasmir there for a second! Is it safe to assume that his followers don't get eaten by Gorum similar to the people of Rahadoum? On the other hand, it feels off to say they get the exct same treatment. They still have a desire for an afterlife, right? What about the man himself? Does he even worship a God?

The Rahadoumi are not eaten by Groetus. In Deaths Heretic, it is fairly laid out that the souls of the "unfaithed" (for lack of a better term) reside in an unending graveyard in the Boneyard (Pharasma's domain).

Razmiri may be eaten by Groetus, become Apostasy Wraiths (see Innser Sea Bestiary), or (and this it probably the VAST majority, like 95%) they are sent to the plane that best fits their alignment (probably LE, since that is Razmir's alignment).

Razmir may also be claimed by Hell, i am sure that the heresy devils can make a very good case about how Razmir's actions have made their jobs so much easier.

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Actually dwarves is the reason why the humans of the setting don't speak orc and are orc slaves, when the orcs came to the surface of Golarion they enslaved/pillaged etc. a very big chunk of humanity but then the dwarves came and started fighting them very very viciously... Aroden (as a human) might have been able to form a resistane and free mankind but that would mean less demon fighting for Aroden and as such the history of mankind would have been different.

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alexd1976 wrote:

Is no one else able to see this sentence in the text:

"An affected creature never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders, but it might be convinced that something very dangerous is worth doing."

Is it just me that can see that?

Never obeys...harmful orders.

Right there, no violence is permissible by the spell, it says so, right in the spell.

Seriously guys.

It doesn't stipulate harmful to themselves. Just harmful.

This spell is CLEARLY intended to aid in roleplaying, it is not a combat spell.

Please read the rules on charmed here.

Surely it's tricky to be used in combat but it can be used in combat.

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I agree that it needs clarification but as others have said don't hold your breath, ultimate magic and ultimate combat have a lot of issues and frankly this is one of the least concerning.

For what it's worth i think that oathbound paladins get a "domain" slot in which they can prepare the oath spells.

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Myrryr wrote:

Or technically a large number of spellcasting aboleths killed two Azlanti gods with a giant rock I suppose.

Neither the aboleths nor their giant magical* rock killed those two deities, those two deities sacrificed themsevles in order to save most of the life in the surface of the planet, they could very well allow them all to die and (along with other deities) restart life on the surface of the planet but they chose not to.

*remember tha the core of this "giant rock" was the starstone

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Also Varian had access to mythic powers for a little while during King of Chaos, that happened when

king of chaos spoiler:

he had both the lexicon of paradox and the lacuna codex in his possesion, both "activated" by the ritual. If you remember he started casting spells left and right (arcane surge) and his spells were a lot more powerful (mythic spells) including using electricity spells to hurt an almost demon lord (mythic augmented lightning arc).

Unfortunately (for him) he doesn't appear to have retained any mythic power.

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I am one of those that is tired of always starting at level 1*, sure for some adventures it's required (like RotRL) and i do enjoy the occasional "from zero to hero" but i am tired of always starting as the squire instead of the knight, as the apprentice wizard instead of a full wizard, as the guardsman instead of the man-at-arms, as the temple initiate instead of the temple priest; the PCs at level 1 are practically nobodies, sure the future has great (even legendary) things in store for them but that doesn't change the fact that they start out as nothing.

*or level 2 but the fact that level 1 PCs are made of paper is another issue

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PFWiki Scribe wrote:
Sometime between when he defeated Tar-Baphon and the Shining Crusade. I believe that's as specific as the canon has gotten.


When he defeated Tar-Baphon as a mortal(ish) necromancer, not Tar-Baphon as a lich. Aroden didn't fight* Tar-Baphon as a lich.

*the reasons for this are unkown but there are plentiful theories going around.

Deighton Thrane wrote:
The year 1, he raised the Starstone (creating the isle of Kortos with it) and became a living god. Can't say I know for the Starfall Doctrine though.

Wasn't year 0?

Ylem wrote:
I've heard it said that he ascended (to Heaven or wherever) after the creation of Absalom.

Axis, not Heaven. Aroden (at least as a deity) was LN and not LG, in fact after his death his personal domain in Axis belongs to Milani.

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I went out of my way* to kill a PC only once and that because i really wanted THAT TRAP in shattered star book 2 to activate, i felt that the players would like that and add to the campaign.

*when i say out of my way i mean that the incubus continued his full attack (made his second attack) against the female barbarian who dropped after a critical on his first attack.

The one time i was b%+@&ing about my character dying was in a 3.5 game, sure resurrection magic was available but it was the 3rd or 4th death of my character and all of them was because of another very stupid PC who put the party in danger and caused PC deaths over and over.

In general i am ok with character death, i am more concerned about the continuation and the damage caused to the narrative of the story when resurrection magic isn't available or when the player wants to change his character because of a character death (usually mid campaign with no warning).

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James Jacobs wrote:
leo1925 wrote:
Karui Kage wrote:
I wouldn't let make whole or greater make whole work on advanced technology. The major cap on abusing the power of tech comes from its limited use, allowing a PC to circumvent that with a relatively low level spell seems wrong.


Greater make whole was made for repairing advanced technology (just not timeworn), the fact that it's a great tool for repairing a destroyed magic item.


The fact that, as written, the core's make whole won't let you repair a magic item with a caster level of 11 or higher is a flaw in the spell's design, and so I invented greater make whole to fix that flaw and allow for the quick repair of higher level magic items. The fact that it showed up in the Technology Guide was happy circumstance—I'd been looking for a place to get the spell into the system and this book was a PERFECT fit with its focus on items anyway.

But yeah... the spell was intended to repair ALL items, but it's primary reason to exist and the reason I built it in the first place was indeed to be something to fix magic items that other spells could not.

Ok i didn't know that, i was wrong in my previous post (also i forgot to add a "it's just gravvy" in the end of my post).

I just assumed that since the "repairs destroyed magic items with a CL up to half yours" was intented, especially since this was a change over 3.5's make whole.
How come this wasn't errata'd during some of the many core rulebook reprints?

PS. Since i now the intent behind the make whole and greater make whole then that means that i can stop forcing my players to travel to Numeria in order to get their destroyed magic items restored, i can just allow them to learn greater make whole.

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Im happy to announce that my WotR campaing has finally come to an end. My players succesfully closed the worldwound and saved the world. But more importantly, me and my players had some awesome fights and some awesome moments that we wouldnt have them if it wasnt for @Sc8rpi8n_mjd 's statblocks. We all thank you for your amazing work and the time you spend and I salute you as it must have been really difficult for you to make those statblocks.

Im planning to write a journal of the campaing for those who are interested. If you are planning to use those statblocks you can look up to it and see how my average to high optimized players managed to defeat everything that stood in their way.

Once again, thank you @Sc8rpi8n_mjd !!!

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There is a very good reason for the technology guide being in the PRD and that reason is for allowing people to play the Iron Gods without being required to also buy the technology guide. I did buy the technology guide but I really appreciate the fact that Paizo did such thing.

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@The Numerator

Well i understand how it might work for you but there are some people like me that the new deal is considerable worse than the current one.
I wouldn't benefit at all from the increased market because not a lot of people read book in english and even less of them read fantasy novels and even less read from an electronic format, so i wouldn't get what you are describing about meeting people who knew about the novels and could talk about them with them.
I also contend with the size of the books and the quality of the paper as it is now but i can understand the need for better quality paper (and font size!!!) and i would be happy to pay a little more for the increased quality (and the slightly increased shipping that comes with it).
I can understand why Paizo wants to increase the market of the novels, i also understand how that might increase the market for the game as well, it just doesn't sit very well with me that i (the current customer of both the novels and the game) have to pay for that.
But as it seems now i would be paying more (considerable more if it turns out that the 15% discount from AP subscription won't apply anymore) for something i didn't want/need and getting considerable less (no epub version of the book). As it is now i will seriously consider dropping my subscription and only buying the novels that really want to buy (mostly the Sutter and Dave Gross ones) from wherever it's cheaper to do so in whatever format i can afford at the time.

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Lord Fyre wrote:

Now that the heavy lifting has been done ...

... Is it time for Paizo to create a Science Fiction (or Space Opera) variant of Pathfinder?

I would be ok with a space opera AP.

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Ok I TOTALLY missed that. Thanks for pointing that out both of you. Problem solved!

@Kalindlara, yes Im the GM :P

My party is semi to high optimized. They are pretty strong and well-built but they just arent using everything they have in their arsenal because they manage... somehow...

They are:
Human Paladin of Iomedae Guardian
Human Cleric of Iomedae Hierophant
Tiefling Rogue/Ranger Trickster(dual path Champion)
Aasimar Bard Marshall(dual path Champion)
Aasimar Arcanist Archmage

Tell me your ideas(so i can counter them if my players come up with them! muahahahaha)

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John Kretzer wrote:

Have just reread both Pirate's Honor and Pirate's Promise as though just occurred to me....

** spoiler omitted **

Pirate's Honor spoiler:
The halfling thief kept the ring of invisibility as his payment.

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Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Errant Mercenary wrote:
The printed APs as is are not very difficult for 4 optimised characters. However with 3 and not very experienced, some parts will be mince grinders.
They're not even hard for 4 decent characters. But 3 borderline decent characters will definitely have issues at certain points.

And when two of them are a level behind it quickly leads to TPK.

I will join the choir and say that it is very bad form on your part to go and read part of the AP behind your DM's back.

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Since the Mythic Advantures book hasn't gone for a 2nd printing, we don't have an errata for it.

My opinion is that the mythic heroism spell is too powerful in it's current form and should be banned.

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Apart from the fact that they can get rage cycling at level 1 at the cost of a feat, they aren't overpowered at all.

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I am glad for the reversal, in my opinion the original FAQ was nonsense.

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Finally that FAQ was taken back, it was about time.

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Omnitricks wrote:
Q: Can UMD be used to bypass the personalizations?

I think that the answer is yes.

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I have no problem with new rulebooks and new options. I do have a problem with poorly thought out rules and badly edited books, and even when those books get an errata not nearly (not even close to) everything gets corrected (including the editing errors). Those things hurt my games.

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I also ban the summoner.

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Make yourself a threat, that usually means dealing enough damage so that the enemies can't ignore you.

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What level is the party?

Banishment can't be made into a wand, maybe it was a wand of dismissal?

What is a critfail?

The (un)holy half of flamestrike's damage has nothing to do with positive
and negative energy.

When you use wands you don't provoke AoO so you don't have to cast defensively.

Did the GM tell you what class the "assasin" was?

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MAJT69 wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:

Fixed your link above.

Thank you, I appreciate your help.

I'm really interested in a 'rewrite' of Skull & Shackles, as that one seems to be widely LOATHED by several of the players, everything they hate about PF in one place. Enemies that always fight to the death, not one single player choice, a ship race that the player's literally cannot lose... Not sure if any of that is true, I didn't enquire further, as the mere mention of it seemed to open some old wounds.


From what i have heard skull and shackles (beyond 1st book) is one of the most Sandbox-y APs.

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I can't be sure about the exact number (24 vs 25 vs 26) because i don't know if your upcoming pathfinder tale will take place at 4714 AR or 4715 AR, also since i don't know the exact months (of birth and the start of the next tale etc.) but i don't think that this specific numbers are needed, i just wanted to know his age because i thought that he was alive when Age of Lost Omens started.

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I would love to read about Varian's involvement in the chelaxian civil war (and the chelaxian civil war in general).

Something doesn't add up, it's been 75* years since house Thrune took the throne, since Varian is 99 years old that means that when the Thrunes took the throne he was 24**. Although it isn't very young by human standards and could be given a command*** at that age he isn't a human, he is a half elf, wasn't this taken into account by whoever granted him a command OR did i something wrong with the dates and/or my math?

I am rereading the books (currently finishing Prince of Wolves) but i don't remember any clues about fighting in the civil war, i remember bits here and there about him serving in the chelaxian army but i had thought that this was after the house of Thrune had risen to power, did i misread the clues or did he served in the army before and after the regime change?

*house Thrune took the throne at 4640 AR and now it's 4715 AR, so 75 years ago

**older than i thought before (i hadn't done the math and i was eyeballing the years from memory)

***i assume that due to his noble birth he didn't serve as a simple soldier but as a minor officer (if not a major officer)

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Orfamay Quest wrote:
Dragon Knight wrote:

I have a reason beyond theory to ask this, honestly; one of my players in Rise of the Runelords just contracted tetanus from the trapped chest in Thistletop. Their 4th level and by the time they defeat Nualia (or allow her to escape, they have a foolish habit of that) they'll be 5th, high enough for the druid to cast the fore-mentioned miracle spell. I'm trying to up the ante for my group ....
This seems.... unfun. Dying of disease is not a fun adventure. Status effects are supposed to be curable, and that's why the spells exist in the first place. But in that regard, disease is no worse (and no better) than blindness, deafness, petrification, or death itself.

In addition, while Sandpoint suffers on the cleric front (4th level is the highest) Magnimar is (irrc) a day's ride from Sandpoint so he can have his disease cured there.

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From the various pathfinder tales (mostly Prince of Wolves and Queen of Thorns) i get the immpression that he was either alive when Aroden died or when the house of Thrune rose into the chelaxian throne. If he was alive when Aroden died then he is more than 100 years old (more like 120 if he was 10 when Aroden died), if he was alive when house Thrune took power then that makes him ~85 years old (again assuming he was 10 when house Thrune took power).
Which one do you think is the better estimate?

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Even if we ignore the price issue, there aren't enough clerics to combat the disease, there aren't enough spell slots to combat the disease, in PF the remove disease spell doesn't have a 100% of working, in a case of an outbreak of a contagious disease you have the problem of people who are healed getting re-infected.

So yes people die from diseases in Golarion, in fact i guess that it's higher than today's death rate but it might be a bit lower than the death rate we had in the medieval+ years.

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As Tacticslion said, use the mythic agile template, also give the boss two or three lives (double or triple hit points), you might not end up gaining more than 1 or (at best) 2 rounds for your boss but thanks to dual initiative those 2-3 rounds will seem longer.

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Neongelion wrote:

I for one welcome our brain-sucking overlords.

The hidden message (as with all APs) in the final book, by the way, was "keep watching the skies". Distant worlds/Dominion invasion AP confirmed! Helps that James Jacobs said he had a Dominion invasion AP plot slushing around in his dinosaur brain for awhile too :D

There was the same hidden message on the Second Darkness.

Also i am still waiting for those runelords to return (RotRL hidden message).

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Mackenzie Kavanaugh wrote:
If there's no Summoner in the party, then there's nobody to craft potions of stoneskin and the GM will never have to worry about it. If there is a Summoner in the party, and they happen to take Brew Potion, you still have the option of ruling that potions are always created at their Sorcerer/Wizard level, not their Summoner level, ruling out stoneskin. Seriously, the GM controls the loot and gets unlimited veto power on items that aren't in the book. Potions of stoneskin aren't in the book, and the only people trying to get them are people who think it's kosher to make a Samsaran Wizard who casts haste as a level 2 spell.

Actually you aren't correct on that one, it's true that you always default to the wizard, cleric and druid lists for determining the level of the scroll, potion and wand, so you can't buy 1st level wands of lesser restoration because lesser restoration might be 1st level for paladins but it's 2nd level for clerics. The issue is that when you go for a potion of stoneskin the only choice you have is the 3rd level stoneskin that the summoner gets because there are no 4th level potions in order to default to wizard.

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Victor Von Fausten wrote:

Very simple. I would allow it. The sorcerer would have to have a metal fork attuned to the plane to which he want to travel, since no doubt such an item would cost more than 1,000 gp.

Also the plane shift spell states that the caster may appear 5 to 500 miles from his intended destination and who knows what wonders may await him there.

Be careful what you wish for sorcerer, you may just get it.

Can you tell where do you get the prices for those metal forks, because i can't find them in the plane shift spell.

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You overthinking this, it's a two handed finessable exotic weapon, plain and simple.

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